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C terms. We're fortunate to have joining us now Jennifer Say, the CEO of XXXY Athletics, and of course, retired national champion gymnast. And Jennifer, you know, you are finding yourself sort of in the middle of this as well. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me.
Hey, we are in the middle of it. You are. You are. And I was shocked, by the way. We played some of this on Fox and Friends this morning when I was filling in for Killmead on TV.
I'm doing TV and his radio show. I call this Killmead Maxing, by the way. I recommend it for everybody. Killmead Maxing is absolutely fun. But I was shocked that the two hosts were their names: Charlotte Wilder and Madeline Hill.
I don't know who they are. They got this sports gossip show, which, by the way, is a podcast put out by The Athletic, which is the New York Times' sports brand. And they're, of course, attacking Sophie Cunningham. But then they dropped your name as well. Listen to this.
Cut 38, I believe. She most recently posed with Riley Gaines, who was a swimmer, not even a very good one, who is super anti-trans women in sports. And she also posed for a picture with the Levi's executive, Jennifer Say. Trans women in sports is not. Yeah The biggest threat to women's sports in any by any means, I would say it isn't a threat to women's sports.
So first, your reaction. Thanks for including me. It's such a silly. Line of reasoning, this whole notion, I had a lot to say on this one, but this whole idea that Riley wasn't any good. First of all, she was great.
She was 12-time All-American, fifth in the country, SEC champion multiple times over. I want to know what these ladies have ever achieved in sports. They seem like the everyone gets a medal type to me.
So, people like that don't understand the kind of work that Riley and I put into becoming champions. It's also an irrelevant point. She could be the worst swimmer in the world, it doesn't matter. She can still fight for fairness. But this is always their line of quote-unquote reasoning: to just criticize the person.
I spoke out very early about abuse in gymnastics, physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. I was the first whistleblower back in 2008. I was the national champion. Do you know what the criticism of me was when I spoke out on this from the community?
Well, she was a really terrible gymnast, and she was a bad national champion.
Well, I would say this to you: even if I was the worst national champion that ever was, I was still ranked number one. 1986, and that's pretty darn good. It's also irrelevant. If I was terrible, do I deserve to be abused by my coaches?
So, this is just more of the kind of throw insults at them when you don't have a good rational argument. It's the same as Grifter, it's the same as racist, it's the same as transphobe, it's all of that.
So, I just. Whatever, they're silly. It doesn't matter what they say. You know, the. That women are unleashed in force right now in support of Sophie because no one's scared anymore.
It's not 2020 anymore. We're not afraid to say the common sense thing, which is that women deserve their own sports and spaces, and it is a threat to women's sports. And the last thing I'll say on this: we can fight for more things than one thing at a time. I'm still fighting for athletes to train free from abuse. I've been doing that for 20 years.
We don't have to pick. We can do all of it. I love that. And such an informed take, obviously, having lived experience to back it up. You know, it's interesting because I don't know which one of it was that was making that comment, but the one was saying that trans women in sports is not the biggest threat to women's sports.
In fact, I say it's not even a threat to sports in general. How is that? Even possible. How, like, the whole thing is about with Sophie is about fairness. And how is biological men in women's sports not a threat?
It's so dumb. I'm so, I can't believe we still have to talk about this. I mean, the fact is, it's the. Ultimate threat to women's sports because when men play women's sports, we don't have a thing as women's sports anymore. It is the WNBA.
The W stands for women, as my friend Michelle Tafoya has said frequently. It is actually a threat. There's been 50. More than fifty high school state titles in girls' events stolen by boys. That's a lot.
To me, that's a lot. At the Olympics in 2024, we saw a man punch a woman in the face and win the gold medal. This isn't about trans. This is about men in women's sports. Women who identify as men, as long as they don't take testosterone, are welcome to compete in women's sports.
And they do. Nikki Hiltz is a runner. She competed in the Olympics in 2024. She identifies as trans and non-binary. No one cares.
compete women's you're a woman no one cares at all so this whole thing that it's anti-trans is so dumb it's just we don't want men in women's sports and you know what the women's tennis association agrees they just declared and announced that they are going to test for sex and almost every player every prominent player has you know given a presser at this point and said we support this and we will willingly take the sex test so tennis is on board basketball is like stuck in the You know, five years ago, it's I'm so glad you mentioned that. That's a great point.
So, the WTA is in on their testing, but by the way, Coco Goff was speaking, she was asked about it.
So, what do you say? And they expected to see what she would get. What did she say? She said that she, of course, respects and supports the trans community, but understands the fairness component. And that's essentially the same, very exact same thing that Sophie Cunningham has said.
No hate to the trans people. This is about fairness. But yet, there's some rich hypocrisy, perhaps, in this New York Times podcast host because they didn't bother to pick on Coco Goff, who's saying the same thing as Sophie, but they do go after Jennifer Say and Sophie Cunningham. I don't know. Yeah, I mean cocoa is Sort of woke, for lack of a better word.
And I think she tried to ride the fence a little bit more than Sophie. I think Sophie was a little more direct. She waffled less, but you're right. Coco Goff acknowledged biological reality, but then she hemmed and hawed about, I support the train. You got to pick a side, Coco.
You either believe in biological reality and you think testing is the way to protect the women's category or not.
So I wish she'd been a little more direct. That said, tons of other female tennis players have been super direct when asked the question. I would like to know what those New York Times podcasters had to say about Sabalenka, because she's the number one tennis player in the world. And she full-throatedly said, I support the test. Men are stronger.
We need this test.
So what do you have to say to her? You'd say, Riley stinks. I'm sure they'd say, I stunk as a gymnast. They didn't mention that part, but they would. Like, I care.
It's 40 years ago. Sabalenka is number one in the world. And the number one U.S. player also said she supported it.
So are they bad too? I want to know. I want them to answer that question. It's great. And they don't want to talk about it.
All they want to do is go out there and say Sophie Cunningham is a right-winger MAGA, all this stuff, and make it political. MAGA Barbie. Yeah, MAGA Barbie. That's their whole thing. And they can't stand that people support it.
Let me walk this forward a little bit with you because the Indiana Fever tomorrow play the Chicago Sky at United Center in Chicago. And I was just looking before the show. I was like, I wonder if there's going to be rallies. And sure enough, there's postings. There are Sophie rallies in support of her.
And I suppose there will be counterprotesters too. It's Chicago. We see things like that here. What do you see transpiring tomorrow? You know, what's this going to look like?
And ultimately, kind of the bigger picture, Jennifer, which is like, what is this ultimately going to mean for the WNBA? Yeah.
Well, I'm going.
So I got on a plane very soon to Chicago and we've helped to organize it and pull a lot of young athletes in. We're just there to celebrate Sophie and to let her know that she is beloved and she is appreciated and we know she's taking a tough stance and she's getting no support from the league or her teammates. She said recently she just wants to play ball. Do it, Sophie. Go play ball.
We just are there to have fun. We're going to bring balloons and we're going to celebrate the fact that she's been unapologetic in her stance and while not being angry about it all. She's so nice in the way she says it, you know?
So we just want her to know she has support because we've all felt very alone. You know, women that have taken a stand for this in the last five to 10 years have really been attacked and vilified.
So we just want her to feel the love and support that she has.
So I will be there in Chicago. I agree with you. We expect counter protesters. We're not protesters. We're having a party, right?
We're just there to have fun. I'm going to be at the game. I'm bringing an athlete with me, Ainsley Erzin, two-sport D1 athlete in college, both soccer and track and field. And we are so excited just to cheer. for both teams, honestly.
I mean, I'm really hoping the fever can pull out a win. I think at this point, it's pretty necessary to make the postseason.
So we're just there to enjoy the game. Nearly home. Isn't home where we all want to be? Reba here for Realtor.com, the pro's number one most trusted app. If you're hearing me, I'm going to assume you're awake.
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Well, I can't, excuse me, I can't wait to find out how it goes. And I know you'll have stuff out there. You know, it's interesting. I wonder again. Kind of what this bodes for the WNBA.
And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, I think we had you on Fox and Friends weekend last weekend with us. Charlie Hurt and I, you were great on with Laura Trump. And, you know, it was because it was reaching a fever pitch and everything going on. Charlie Hurd and I were saying on the air on Sunday morning, we were saying, hey, the fever are playing the Minnesota Lynx. I'm going to watch.
I'm actually, I've never watched a WNBA game in my life. I'm actually going to watch it. And Charlie and I are like, after the show, we're like, hey, we got to actually watch it. I'm like, all right, we're going to watch it. It's coming on at like one o'clock.
It was because it's middle of the day. There are not really night games.
So we sit down to watch it. And then you see the Minnesota Lynx coach wearing this pro-trans. T-shirt, and I'm like, What the hell is this?
Now, yeah, take us, take Charlie and I, just as a test case. You just brought two middle-aged men that probably were never going to sit down to watch a WMBA game in our life. And I see that with the coach over there, I'm like, oh my god, really?
Now I'm no longer interested in why I tuned in because I love watching the WNBA. I was all getting on the Knicks bandwagon, even though I'm from DC. I bought a hat, but in watching the game, it's really pretty fascinating to watch because it's a different pace game. The style is different than watching men's very much. It's very interesting.
But then, as just a casual newcomer to watching it, I was put off by like, really, the coach is going to go into like politics shoved down my throat. Yeah.
Well, I was there. I was at the rally outside, which you may have seen footage of at this point. It was a collection of basically middle-aged women and teenage girls there to thank Sophie. And we were harassed relentlessly by these protesters who had bullhorns and they were screaming in our ear and they were calling us the worst names you can imagine. I can't say them here.
This is the kind and tolerant left. They're the ones claiming they're not bigots. They were calling us the most disgusting, misogynistic names. We went and enjoyed the game. I sat with Riley Gaines on the floor.
People were thanking us. People wanted photos. People bought us drinks.
So, you know, what the broadcast tried to show with that coach with her trans kids belong shirts, and every person they cut to in the audience was wearing a similar shirt. That was not what was happening on the floor. I just want to tell you that. What was happening on the floor is there were a lot of people with our logos, and there were a lot of people that were very grateful for the work that Riley and myself have done.
So they're sort of clinging to. A view that is no longer Popular. You know, the 80% of Americans that support the protection of women's force, they're not afraid anymore. We're so happy and proud of Sophie. We're there to celebrate her, and no one's silent anymore.
We're not afraid of being called bigots. We know it's a lie. We are pro-woman. We're not anti-anyone. And so ESPN and that WNBA can cling to whatever they want to cling to, but women are showing up and they're no longer afraid.
We're unleashed. They are. And just one last thing I want to get to, and that is, I also applaud Sophie Cunningham, not only for the courage to speak out and say, I said what I said, and, you know, really getting people like yourself and others to rally behind this issue. But then she came out afterwards and said, Enough. Let's play basketball.
Why aren't people talking about basketball? Here's a little clip I want to play for you and get your reaction. She said a while back: this is cut 41. There's just so much distraction. I think the WMBA media, all we ever do is cover everything except basketball.
And it's like, what like what are we doing? There's so much. Like you can talk about other things. I think those are great stories. I think it shows fans, you know, who people are outside of the court.
But I also think we gotta keep the main thing, the main thing. Yeah, it's like saying, Let's play basketball. What's your reaction? Yeah, I mean, and she called out the media specifically. Not necessarily the people that are there to support her.
I'm there to watch the game tomorrow. I, you know, I want to watch the game. I want her to know she has support. She gets booed like crazy when she, you know, comes out on the court. She should have two people sitting in front row cheering for her, right?
So she's sort of blaming the media here for getting caught up in this and making about the other thing. The thing is the thing. It's the basketball. It's an important game. And we're there to cheer for her and celebrate the fact that the WNBA, women's basketball, is having a moment people want to watch.
And that's because of Caitlin, and that's because of her. And people like you. I have been to a gazillion NBA games. Last weekend was my first WNBA game, and I had a great time.
So I think the WNBA should be thrilled that they're having this moment. And yet, somehow they're practicing sort of financial malfeasance, I would say, malpractice, and not leading with the stars, not leading with Caitlin. People show up, people tune in, and yet somehow she's not the hero they want. And so they're kind of pushing her. off into the corner but I'm showing up, so I can't wait for the game.
I had a blast.
Well, Jennifer say we can't wait to find out how this game goes. Have a great trip and keep us informed and up to date on how it goes. And I just, you know, the WNBA, they're really at risk of making a dumb mistake by driving off would-be fans of not only Sophie Cunningham or Kaylin Clark, but the sport itself. It's a missed opportunity, I think. I couldn't agree with you more.
At the end of the game, I waited to see if I could meet some of the players. There were little girls lined up to meet Sophie, and she stopped and signed every jersey, took every picture. Like, this is an incredibly nice person, and she's doing it for the kids.
So, none of the broadcasts are reflecting that. The WNBA is losing out on an opportunity, but we're going to show up. Get me a video of that, and I'll put it on Fox News on Fox Information. I will get it for you. All right.
Thank you. You got it. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.
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