Thriving in Love & Money: An Interview with Jeff and Shaunti Feldhahn

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This incredible opportunity for money to be an opportunity not for conflict but for connection. Well, Pastor Greg, we have some special guests in the studio today. First of all, your wife Kathy is here with us. Kathy, good to see you.

It's good to be here. And we have a couple of guests with us today, a husband and wife, who are authors and both hold graduate degrees from Harvard. So I'm figuring that you and I will understand about half of what they say. And I'm hoping after the program we can compare your half to my half and figure it out. Well, I am a graduate from Harbor High School in Newport Beach, California. And so I'm so glad to talk to somebody that has something to say to our audience and can help us all. And a very, very important topic as well for everyone that's listening. Can I just jump in real quick?

Yes. We had Shanti out to speak recently to our women and I was so intimidated when I read hers and Jeff's bio. But when I spent the first two minutes on the phone with her, I felt like I had met a new best friend and I felt like I could understand everything she was saying. And she made it so easy to receive that great intellect of hers and all the research she and Jeff have done. And when Shanti talked to me, she would say, Greg, as a graduate of Harvard, and obviously you never went there, you didn't even go to Yale. I think you graduated from high school. You wouldn't understand this, but then she would make her next statement.

No, she never did that. It's the very opposite of that. Folks, listen, I'm speaking with our special guests, Shanti and Jeff Feldhahn. And they've written a very important book that I want to put in your hands. And the title of it is Thriving in Love and Money, subtitled We Graduated from Harvard and You Didn't. That's maybe what I would have put if I was a Harvard graduate.

But thanks for being on the program today with us, you guys. And there's a statement very early on in the book, and I find this very interesting because you would look at this and think, oh, this is a book about money. And it is. And in another way, it isn't because this statement is made.

Here's the truth about everything we'll be covering. When we have conflict around money, it's not about the money. So, Shanti, why don't you explain that statement? Yeah, actually, in this research, because this was based on this three-year research project, to try to dig out, like, how do you have a great relationship around money, right? And for me and Jeff, this had been a big deal in our marriage, and that's really the one-sentence summary of the reason why that this is such a big issue in so many marriages is that when you're having tension about money, it's not about the money. It turns out it's about how money makes you feel and how it makes your spouse feel.

There's a host of, like, expectations and beliefs about how money should work or insecurities or worries or all these other feelings that are running into the surface, and we don't even know they're there. But that's really what's coming out whenever there's those tensions or fighting or, like, me and Jeff, we didn't fight about it. We just kind of… Didn't talk about it.

We just avoided it. I mean, we could have titled it, if it was the book about our life, we could have said coping with money as opposed to thriving, because we did anything but thrive in that area. You guys, why do you think this is such an emotional subject?

You know, you can talk about so many things from the pulpit. You can talk about faith and prayer, the importance of Scripture, the family, et cetera, et cetera, but the moment you bring up the word money, I think everybody impulsively grabs their wallet or at least, you know, they're going to ask us for money. And it's very emotional, and people don't like to talk about this topic. Do you think it's because this is an area that they haven't surrendered over to the Lord that they want control of? Do you think it's something else? What is the thing, and you know, and as we know, Jesus spoke so much about money, so many of his parables dealt with money. The Bible is very straightforward on this topic, but for some reason, we don't want to hear that message or we don't want to talk about that topic. Honestly, it comes back to what Jesus said, is where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

It turns out that a lot of us have treated it like a technical issue, right? Like it's about budgeting or getting out of debt or planning. And listen, all of that is important. That wasn't what we were studying.

We were trying to figure out what's underneath all of that. And that's the stuff that has to come before you can even be willing to talk with your spouse to be able to budget or plan. This blows my mind and it blows a lot of pastors minds. The greatest obstacle to all of the budgeting, to the financial freedom, everything that a pastor wants his people to be in his church, to be generous, to be tithing. The greatest obstacle is the inability of a husband and wife to sit down at the kitchen table and talk about money. So this is a communication issue. This is a communication issue. And so that's the answer to your question is it really is about this incredible opportunity for money to be an opportunity, not for conflict, but for connection. Which is huge for a lot of people right now, especially right now.

We need that. Yeah, you talk about communication. I know in one part of the book you write this, if I can quote your own words back to you. You say, if you have more financial cushion in your life, but do not talk about money, you are more likely to have damaging tensions than if you have less money on hand, but could at least talk about it.

Yes, building cushion is important. Talking trumps that because they found that if you build the cushion, if that's what you're focusing on is the finances, but you're not focusing on being able to communicate about money, be able to come together and talk about it, that the relationship is likely to be worse than if you had less cushion, but you could at least communicate. Very interesting. So if you're listening, I'm speaking with Jeff and Shanti Feldhahn, and they've written a great book that you need to have in your hands called Thriving in Love and Money. No, this is not just another book on money. This is different. Subtitle, Five Game-Changing Insights About Your Relationships, Your Money and Yourself. Okay, let's say that the husband wants to buy something, and being a guy, he probably wants to buy a muscle car, or he wants to do... Speaking from personal experience there, Pastor Greg. Well, my car is not what you would call a muscle car, but it's a little faster than normal.

I have an old Mustang. I think everybody knows that. But anyway, let's not make this personal, Dave. I'm waiting for this.

Okay, yes. Anyway, let's just say in the mind of the wife, the guy wants to buy something she thinks is extravagant, and or in the mind of the husband. The wife says, let's redecorate the house. And what he hears her saying is, let's take a bunch of money and flush it down the toilet, right? So that's not what she means. Maybe that's not even what he means, but they hear it differently. Talk about that. Well, actually, you just described one of the key factors underneath the surface that we found is a big deal for almost everybody, which is that it turns out we're just not valuing what the other person is valuing.

And it shouldn't surprise us. I don't know why we do this, because we know we're different people. Technically, I know Jeff is a different human being than I am. But for some reason, in my mind, I don't translate that to, huh, he might have different things that really matter to him, and that might be just as legitimate as what matters to me. And what we tell ourselves internally is that the other person is wrong in what they're valuing.

Can I give you all an example, a very common example right now? Because right now, there's a lot of couples, and probably for years to come as people are listening to this, there's a lot of economic uncertainty, you know? And that lends itself to suddenly a husband and wife need to come together and be able to talk about money when maybe they haven't really been able to before in the same way. And one of the examples of this different kind of clash, this example of a value difference, is a spender and a saver.

And that's a very common, simple example, and even when you have two savers, usually one of them is more comfortable spending than the other, so you still have this gap. Really, it is, that's coming out of the surface, is how we feel about our marriage and how we're communicating with each other, and money is just bringing it out. And right now, with all of the things that are going on, this is a big issue. So how do couples come together? You know, we have two separate, one values security, and one values just those family memories, or creating an atmosphere or a situation that we're going to treasure for years to come.

They're both good things. How do we kindly communicate those values to one another? Because it's not always in the forefront of my mind when Greg says, hey, let's have all 11 of us go out to the nice restaurant for dinner. And of course, all the kids and the grandkids are like, yes!

And I'm thinking, oh gosh, this is going to cost a lot. But I'm always glad for the memory and the time that we have spent together. So how do we express our concern to the other without stepping on their toes or saying it in a way that's hurtful or a put-down? Yeah, I think at least for Shanti and me and what we saw in the research was you have to just start with yourself and figure out what's going on inside of you in a way that you can say it compassionately. And you can say, you know, if I understand what you want to accomplish with this, and you maybe say, you know, you value all of these memories that we're going to create with the family. This was thought through by you.

It wasn't just, you know, a careless decision. There's some reason that you have for wanting to do this. Can you help me understand what you're feeling inside? And it's just much more respectful toward our spouse when we're asking that.

Can you help me understand? And then it opens the door for you to say, can I tell you what that feels like for me when we're doing this? And I know that sounds like talking solves everything, but, you know, actually it gets you a long ways there. So I'm speaking with Shanti and Jeff Feldhahn, and they've written a book called Thriving in Love and Money, subtitle five, Game-Changing Insights About Your Relationship, Your Money, and Yourself. And as you can see, we are talking about money, but in some ways we aren't. We're talking about communication, talking about relationship, we're talking about understanding one another, listening to one another, and much more.

But it's all interwoven in topics of finances and other areas as well. And we want to send you this book because I think it's really going to help you, especially those of you who are married. But, Jeff, how about those who are planning on getting married? Yeah, I was just going to say that even if you're single, it might be good to think about these things before you get married, right? Shanti often points out that, you know, even before you're married, we all know what that feeling is when you're sitting around a table with someone at dinner, and you're thinking, how much debt do they have, credit card debt, and all of those sorts of things that are, you know, cause us to have concerns, even before you get married. Well, when we do the interviews, I can't tell you the number of times that I've heard a man articulate this question of, am I going to be able to provide for our family? Like, I can't get married to this woman until I know for sure that I'm going to be able to provide.

That is looming in their mind, and it causes all sorts of other things that is helpful for us as wives to know. Well, we're talking with Jeff and Shanti Feldhahn, and they've both got graduate degrees. I know, Jeff, your specialty is in law, and Shanti, you've got a graduate degree in data analysis, which you draw upon that for this book. As you dug deep into all the data, what would you consider the biggest surprise in all your research? The biggest surprise is how much all of us, and definitely me in my own heart, how much I am resisting being one in marriage, and it's coming out and how I handle money. I mean, that was one of the big findings, and it hit me, because candidly, a lot of us have kind of gotten into patterns when money isn't something you love talking about. If you're one of those people who just, it's not your thing, it's really easy to kind of go, you know what, your paycheck goes into your account, and my paycheck goes into my account, and we don't have to talk about money. Like, it's easier to just do it separately, because we all, all of us underneath the surface, we kind of just want to do what we want to do, right?

It started in the garden, and we all have this resistance to being one in our marriage, and I thought about myself, you know, that's not me. We don't like, we don't like keep separate bank accounts where we're hiding things from each other. Yeah, we have access to each other.

Yeah, we have access to different, and it's just for convenience and whatever. And when people say, well, I don't do that, I ask them the same question I had to ask myself once I realized this is, okay, maybe you don't, maybe you combine everything, but ask yourself, do you ever try to pull the Amazon package off the front step before your spouse sees it? That, in me, was coming from the same exact place of wanting to just do what I wanted to do that causes some people to separate accounts entirely, and during this moment, it's important for us to sort of wrestle with that and recognize this is something we're called to not be you and me. We're called to be we. Oh, that's very good. We're not called to be you and me, we're called to be we.

You're listening to Shanti and Jeff Feldhahn. They've written a book called Thriving in Love and Money, and this is our special resource this month that we want to put into your hands. Folks, you know that when we offer these resources, it's because we want to help you, we want to encourage you, we want to strengthen you, and this is one of the most important that we've ever offered.

And I would remind you that I'm offering this to you for your gift of any size, whatever you send, large or small, we'll get you your copy. But let me encourage you to invest in our ministry, because this is a ministry that obviously teaches the Word of God, but it's also a ministry that calls people to Christ, and every year, we see literally thousands of people make a commitment to follow Jesus Christ, because we'll invite them to do so at the end of our program. So if you believe that people need to come to Jesus, if you believe people need to hear the Word of God, then we would appreciate your investment in our ministry, and we'll get you your copy of this book by Jeff and Shanti Feldhahn, Thriving in Love and Money. Hey, speaking of investing in ministry, let's talk a little bit about giving to the Lord. Why is that important, to invest in the kingdom of God, and by that I mean investing in a ministry like ours or others or your local church? Well, remember how, at the very beginning, we were talking about, why did Jesus talk about this so much? And, you know, it reveals where your heart is, you know, you choosing to trust. However, one of the other things we may not realize about what Jesus said there is what you do with your money, it's not that it just reveals the heart, it also steers the heart. And as you do that, as you step out in faith and say, you know, I want to hold on to all of it, but God says to give this back to him, it forces me to say this is a choice of trust.

This may not be a feeling right now, like we all wish it would be, but it's going to be a choice, and it steers my heart in that direction when I take a deep breath and choose to give. And it's the same thing, frankly, for all of the things that we've been talking about. Like, you have two separate bank accounts because you say that's more convenient, like Jeff and I did, even though we kind of have things combined and had access, but we didn't, we weren't together. Well, you know what, our choice to say, you know what, why don't we do all of our banking together in the same account so that we're forced to deal with these things and talk about them, that was steering our heart away from being you and me and steering it to being one.

Good. Let's speak specifically to somebody listening right now. Maybe they're hearing us talk and they're thinking, man, this is an area where we're a wreck at home. And they do want to get a copy of this book, but it might take a couple of days to get there. Let's help them right now. What's the first thing they can do today to get them aimed in the right direction, not only financially, but more importantly, in their relationship?

What's the first thing that they should do? So do you mind if I give you two? Okay. Okay.

And there are two easy ones. So the first thing that I would do is ask each other one question. Is there anything that I could do to make it easier for you to talk about money with me? Is there anything that I could do differently that would make it easier for you to talk about money with me?

Put the knives down, maybe. And that can open up a lot of these kinds of discussions and just get you started and hopefully in a decent way rather than an angry way. But, you know, we'll take what we can get in terms of a starting point and ask it and answer it calmly. But the second thing that I would suggest is we actually created a free assessment that you can take. And we took a lot of time. But the key is for that assessment, it gets you this sense.

It's only five or six minutes, but it's very robust. The engine under the surface will get you some really, really specialized. Where are you starting in this love and money journey? What are the areas that you're already doing well? Because, listen, if you know that, oh, my goodness, I didn't realize this was a big deal. I can do more of that, right? Like, that's a good thing.

And the areas that you most need to work on. It'll just get you started. It didn't take long. And it was very easy to answer the questions and just understanding what you value, where your value is. Let me ask you this. In your data, do Christians fare better in how they relate to each other financially than the rest of the sample group?

You know, it's interesting. Or is it about the same? It depends on the area.

It depends on the area. We had four real major categories, at least in the assessment that we were tackling. One of the areas, which was the oneness one that Shanti was speaking about earlier. And what we found is that Christians tend to score considerably higher than the national average that we found. Which is fantastic, because it does mean that the average follower of Jesus is hearing what their pastors are saying about the need to try to be one in your marriage and the need to try to take a deep breath and, you know, handle things a little bit differently. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean that they always handle things differently, but they want to.

Like, there's a desire to be more together in their marriage without this feeling of what we saw in the national survey. So, folks, you're listening to Shanti and Jeff Feldhahn, and they've written a book called Thriving in Love and Money. It's about money. It's about those things that you deal with. But it's all about relationships. It's about trust. It's about communication.

It's about life. And this is something that you need to have in your hands. And they mentioned a survey that you can take to help you. It's here in the book, and we want to send it to you. Listen, for no charge, I will send you this book for whatever you send. Now, I would encourage you to be generous in ordering your copy, because we'll use those resources to invest in the kingdom of God. But we will rush you your own copy of Thriving in Love and Money, subtitled Five Game-Changing Insights About Your Relationship, Your Money, and Yourself. Let me wrap up with one last question. It's about the last chapter in the book. In the last chapter, you speak of how this information changed your marriage.

So as we close, tell us about that. How is your marriage different now after that experience of uncovering all of that research and putting it into practice? Well, I'd say that, you know, it's deepened our understanding, our respect for each other, our love for each other. I just, you know, we all want peace in our households.

And we have peace. It's been fantastic. It has been so fascinating to see how I would have described our marriage as being a great marriage before. I had no idea there was a whole other level that we were missing. I had no idea that there was a whole other level of oneness and intimacy and closeness that was closed off to us because there was this area of marriage that just was taboo. It was the third rail, right? It was that area that we just avoided it.

And again, we didn't fight about it because we just avoided it. So there was a whole area of connection we were missing. And I would say that, in my words, I'd say that previously I would have thought that I was enduring certain things that Shanti did, and now I've come to appreciate them because I now see what she values differently than what I did and the net benefit to our family because she values those things.

I love that. I'm excited because I feel like even if there's just one member of the household that will take the time to read this book, that it'll help them begin that conversation. Because rather than thrust a book into somebody, you know, your spouse's hands and say, you need to read this, the book itself will help you to begin to phrase those first, like that first question that you gave us, which was so good. What is the one thing that I could do that would help you begin to help me understand and talk about money with me? I mean, that question is just the opening of a nice conversation rather than just, you need to do this differently and you need to understand what I'm thinking.

Here it is. It's like, help me understand so that we can have this conversation. I love that.

That's exactly it. Well, thank you, Shanti and Jeff, for being on our show and writing this book Thriving in Love and Money. And I hope that our listeners will order their own copy because it can really enrich, number one, your life, number two, your marriage, and help you know how to deal with your finances in a godly way from a biblical perspective. And so we want to send you your own copy for your gift of any size to our ministry here at A New Beginning. Because, as you know, we love to teach the Word of God. This is just an illustration of that where we're helping you to see how Scripture applies to all areas of your life, including your finances. And we also proclaim the gospel and give people an opportunity to believe in Jesus. So for whatever you send, we'll invest it in this ministry and we'll get you your own copy of this book by Shanti and Jeff Feldhahn, Thriving in Love and Money.

Yeah, that's right. We have a copy here waiting for you. And we so much appreciate your investment in these daily studies. We are completely listener supported. There are no large organizations paying all the expenses.

No, it's listeners who find benefit in Pastor Greg's studies and recognize the effectiveness of this ministry in reaching people with the gospel. So thanks for your donation today, and ask for the book Thriving in Love and Money as you write A New Beginning, Box 4000, Riverside, CA 92514. Or call 1-800-821-3300. We're here to take your call 24-7.

That's 1-800-821-3300. Or go online to harvest.org. Well, next time, as Pastor Greg returns to his World Changers series, he shows us the difference between the choices made by Abraham and the choices made by Lot. We'll see the choices we make determine the path our lives take. Join us next time on A New Beginning. This is the day, the day when life begins The preceding message from Greg Laurie was made possible by Harvest Partners, helping people everywhere know God. Sign up for Pastor Greg's free daily email devotions at harvest.org.