A New Beginning presents a book about the greatest evangelist of the 20th century, Billy Graham, written by his friend, Pastor Greg Laurie. I bring insights that maybe other books have not really touched on. I also weave in a lot of my personal experiences one-on-one with Billy, things he said to me, and things I gleaned by watching him.
So if you want to learn more about this man that changed the world, get your copy of Billy Graham, The Man I Knew. Yours for a gift of any amount at harvest.org. Hey, Greg Laurie here. Welcome to my podcast. I have a very special guest.
Today, my wife, Catherine Beatrice Laurie, there she is. Beatriz, spelled with a Z. With a Z. Pronounced Beafiz in Spanish. Wow.
There you go. And my name Is pronounced Greg. There's nothing special. My name is Greg. You're actually Gregory.
Gregory Mitchell. Mitchell. Laurie. Your mom had a thing for movie stars. Yeah, I was, I think, named after Gregory Pat.
Not a bad, not a bad thing. Yeah, but you know what my nickname was in life, though? Oh, yes, I do know. What? Pogo.
Yes, and you know why? Because you looked like the character in the cartoon strip. Is Pogo still on a cartoon? No, he's gone. He's gone.
He's retired. He had a little card. He was a cartoon character, Pogo the Possum. And some aunt saw me and said, he looks like Pogo the Possum. You do not.
You didn't as a kid either.
Well, I don't even know where that came from. And I was called that for many years, and I never liked it, but I just revealed it.
So maybe I'll be called it again.
Okay, so we were blessed to have a movie made about our life. And about the last great spiritual awakening, the Jesus movement. And so it's a love story where Greg and Kathy meet. Craig played by Joel Courtney. Kathy played by Anna Grace Barlow.
I thought they both did an amazing job. And so people often ask me: is that how it really happened?
So let's do. Scene from Jesus Revolution, is this the way it really happened? Wow. Let's start with Greg and Kathy meeting on the high school campus. Greg is looking through the fence, he's got his camera.
And here's that scene, then we'll talk about it. Come here! I think there's a guy who wants to meet you. It's a little strange, but go easy on it.
Okay. Hey, Square. I am not a square.
Sorry, sorry, you dress like one. This is Greg, and he's gonna be coming to school here. Actually, I can't come to school here. Can't? You can do whatever you want.
You know that, right? Maybe you can't actually. Such it. What, this? No, no, no, no, no, no.
This is not my idea. This is my mom's idea. She thinks the academy will expand my opportunities. See, I would rather expand my mind. Give me a break.
You're in high school. All they teach is propaganda and lies.
Okay. What if What if there is no truce? What if it's all just different points of view. Did you just quote Alan Ginsburg? Yeah.
What? You re-canfra? Yeah, some. But you know what? I actually disagree with him on that.
Some things are absolutely true. Yeah, like what? I don't know, I haven't found him yet. But at least now we're asking the right questions.
Okay, so Kathy, is this the way that I actually met you? No, that is Hollywood fiction. No, actually the first time I saw you was We were both already Christians. Yeah. And you were teaching a Bible study in a little coffee house in Long Beach, California.
Remember when my leg was shaking the whole time? Yeah. Like you would sit on a stool and you would have your feet up on the little. Pole there, and your knees would both be bouncing up and down, up and down.
So I looked out. I was single at the time, obviously. And I was probably 19. And I saw you and your two sisters. It was Dodie and Mary.
You went everywhere together. You were like inseparable, always the three of you.
So I looked out and I saw Mary and I saw Dodie and I saw Kathy. And I remember that there was a light coming down on you. And it was Dodie holding a flashlight over your head. No, not really.
So I thought, I want to meet these girls, but in particular, I wanted to meet you. And do you remember what I said to you? Are you coming back? Or what did you say? I remember you saying...
I'm coming next week.
Well, there was things happening almost every night of the week back in those days. And different teachers, and you were teaching, I think you were teaching on a Monday night. And. You said, Are you going to come back next week? And I said, Well, I don't normally know because I might come on one week.
Which is kind of sad.
So it was sort of a rejection of my sermon and me at the same time. No, I thought you were hilarious and very entertaining. Thank you. And I came back. You did.
And then so I would say after church, I'd say you, hey, you guys want to go get some dessert after church? That's back in the day.
So we'd eat dessert after church. I wouldn't do that now. And coffee? Yeah, coffee. I wouldn't do that either.
I'd be up all night.
So we went out, we had fun together. And then the next, I think maybe the next Monday I asked again and we all went out. And then maybe the third Monday or so, I said, hey, you want to go out and get some coffee and dessert? Yeah, let me get my sisters. And I said, I don't want your sisters.
I didn't say it quite that ominously. Do you have to bring your sisters? Yeah, I was a little more diplomatic.
So we went out and that's when we first kind of started not quite dating. It was like pre-dating. Yeah, no, it was just getting to know each other. Getting to know each other. Acquainted.
I could end up marrying this guy. You know, it's so funny because kids now wait so long to get married. They're still living with their parents in their 50s. And back when we were kids, we got married young. I mean, because women got married.
You were 18 and I was 21, and you just turned 18, and so we were so young, but. Did it occur to you in the That time area, like at 14, I was not thinking marriage. No, that would have been a little premature. Yeah. I just thought he loved you.
Well, you were older than 14 because I was like, and he's fun and he loves Jesus. If you were 15, 16, 16. No, 16, 17, you would have been 16 because we're three years apart and I was 19. No, I was younger than that. No, I don't think so.
Maybe not 14. It might have been 15. Wow, much older than that. But we got married the day after I turned 18. And when did we do that?
Well, because in the movie, this part was right. Yes. You did want to ask my dad. If you could marry me. And You did go outside and take a walk by the swimming pool.
And you did say, I would like to marry your daughter. And my dad said, that's not going to happen. Yes. Because mom was a Catholic. Yeah.
And you. Came from a family of seven divorces. Yes. And Dad thought, there's no way this hippie preacher will ever be able to support my daughter. And so he said, no.
Yes. She's going to be eighteen in January. And we are going to get married. Yeah. Here's the scene from the movie so they can see what happened.
Look, Mr. Martin, I know that you may not approve. of everything that Kathy and I are doing, but I just think that it may be because you don't understand it really. And what I want you to know is that it's real. It really is.
And I've got plans for my life, sir. And I just want Kathy to be part of that. You're right, Greg. I don't understand it, and I don't need to.
So long as you understand that you are never going to marry my daughter. Sir, I think that you're prematurely judging me. The answer is no. And the sooner you accept that, the better.
Okay. Okay, now let's go to the last scene in the movie. where I officially propose to you. And you remember this scene? And this, a lot of people say this is their favorite scene.
And uh Greg and Kathy have broken up at this point. And Greg's come to his senses and realizes he wants to marry Kathy.
So he goes to your house. And he walks in. And then he proposes. Before we see this scene, Is this true or false? It is not quite accurate.
No. No. But I wanted to ask you. if you still mean what you said the other day. about what you want.
With honors. Because I got really big plans, Kathy. Hopes and dreams. I've got goals. And I want to do it with you.
Together. You and I. Because I get you. I need you. I want you.
And I love you. Yeah, like a lot. Yeah. So what what what is this? Is this Your way of proposing to me?
Oh. Um Um What would you say if it was? I would say. That If you ever get in the way of me and God. It's over between us.
So. Is that your way of saying yes? Yes. I didn't really go to your house and do it. No.
We were driving home from we had gone to a summer camp. Yeah, a family camp that Calvary Chapel used to do in the summer, up at night a while. And everybody would get food poisoning because food was terrible. But we had a lot of fun. Which is a good way to lose weight, though.
I wouldn't do it intentionally, but you'll lose a little weight, maybe so it's young. Yeah, but I don't think you did not need to lose weight. No, I was very skinny back then. You had a very flat stomach. Yeah.
I was jealous of that. Notice that's past tense had. It could have been have. But you said had past tense. I don't have a flat stomach anymore.
I don't Have A lot of things I had back then either. Which is the same as you were back then? No, no, no. Like, here's a picture of you when I first met you. And here you are now.
You don't look that different.
However, look at this. Here's what I look like. And now here I am now.
Okay, so it's like Franklin Graham said, What happened to you and Kathy? It's like you went under a power pole and she got frozen in time and your aging accelerated. That's Franklin. That's a dear friend, Franklin. Hey!
He just doesn't keep those inside thoughts inside. Um yeah, so we were we were at summer camp and we had Broken up and gotten back together again and announced. Yeah, that's an annual event. Yeah, there was a two and a half. Or so year courtship and a lot of big-time breakups.
I don't want to see your face again. Don't call me anymore.
So, but After that third time, it was getting more and more apparent to me. And at that point, I thought, you know what? There is something here, and we cannot live without each other. We got to figure out how to live with each other. But so we're driving home from camp, and I remember you saying so.
What did you say? Tell him. Wow. I guess we're gonna get married, huh? I didn't propose properly.
I didn't get down on one knee. I didn't even, I don't think I even had the ring. I just said, well, I guess we're going to get married someday. Oh my goodness. Yeah.
Back in those days I don't think I I look at the way kids do it today, and I look at how much focus there is on planning the perfect destination wedding, and it is a fortune. They spend so much money on the wedding, and I don't think they spend enough time thinking about what it's going to be like. being married after the wedding, you know, when the honeymoon is over. $200. It was a hip-hop.
I don't remember what it cost. It was nothing. Everything was free. And it was, you know, but but it was cool. It was just a classic wedding of that time.
So We got married, and do you remember what happened on our wedding day? We're standing in front of Pastor Chuck Smith. I wish they had put this scene in the movie because I think it's a classic scene. You know, there's been some talk of a potential sequel to Jesus Revolution. And if there is, I hope this scene is in it.
And basically, what happened is we're standing there. Chuck has taken us to the vows. And first, I need to preface this by saying people to this day will come up to you and call you Lori, not Kathy. Oh, hi, Lori, because your last name is Lori, your first name is Kathy. And so Chuck had done that in the past, called you Laurie instead of Kathy.
So the wedding is completed. He's now going to pronounce us. You know, man and wife, and he says, I now pronounce that Craig and Lori are men and wife. And I laughed so hard. You laughed so hard, and you caught my veil.
Yes. It didn't come off, but almost. Yeah, no, you thought that was hilarious. Yeah. Why do you slap your knee when you're laughing?
I don't know. But so here's the secret to marriage. We've been married 50 years. Marry yourself. That's what I did.
Greg married Laura. You married the opposite than yourself. You are the opposite than yourself. I am. The like opposite to you.
In every way, to this day. We have irreconcilable differences. We have had irreconcilable differences for 50 years.
So when I hear people say, oh, we can't stay together, we have irreconcilable differences, I think I have many irreconcilable differences. You're always on time, usually early. I'm always late. Oh, that's not the way it is? Greg, you have no idea how close to on time I am compared to some girls.
That made me true. I'm pretty good. I'm not like early. But most of the time I am on time.
Sometimes I have to time you. Kathy, we're leaving in an hour. Kathy, we're leaving in 40 minutes. We're leaving in 30 minutes, 12 minutes, 10 minutes. And then you were late one day.
I go, why weren't you on time? You said, you didn't count me down. That's right. I have to count you down. Yes, you do.
Okay, so. Like the chefs when they're preparing food, they say, time? Yeah. I need time.
So let's like think for a moment about somebody watching this. Let's say a young lady in particular is watching this and she's thinking, I want to get married one day. What advice would you give her?
So first and foremost, At least in my mind, and it's worked out pretty well, I would say find somebody who loves Jesus as much, if not more, than you do. Because we do have so many differences. We disagree about a lot of things. You like watching. The same TV shows and the same music, and I'm completely the only one.
And I'm what I like, and I like it. Yes, and I know what those things are. But differences, we have those differences. But the one thing that we have that has held us together is we have a focus on wanting to know and to please Jesus with everything that we are.
Someone once said way back when it's kind of like being at the three points of a triangle that here you are and here I am. But we're both pulling towards Jesus, and that keeps us coming back together again and again and again.
So, your advice is find a person more godly than you. Aye, and then anything else? Or someone who's not going to be able to do that. It's okay if they're opposite to you. They don't have to be.
You don't have to agree on everything, but on the main things. That's, I think, why the reason it's so important to find someone who shares your faith because realistically, marriage is hard enough.
So, and you're going to have disagreements, but what's important is we agree with what the Bible says.
So, this is how we'll make our decision ultimately. God says this, and that's what we're going to do. If you know one person is of a different faith, and you know, that's going to create a lot of faith at all. you know, and then you think down the road, if you have children, who's going to be training those children in what is the right way to believe and whether to believe in God or not to believe in God, and whether church is a priority and community is going to be what? You know.
The people you hang out with at work or at the gym. I mean, you know, our community that has been there for us.
Nowadays, people are so much online, they're not even communicating anymore. They don't even know how to have a conversation. Everything is texting. They want to call on the phone. They actually, I'll just text you, you know.
Well, and I think part of the problem too today is that people are putting off marriage all day long. We sound like old people. The problem today I remember in the old days. Yeah, a lot of that, but it's true. I think the expectation to try to find the perfect person.
Is impossible because I'm taken.
Now, next subject, no. Yeah, there is no perfect person. And you change. I've jokingly said, you know, I've been married to seven different women. People are usually shocked when I say that.
And funny enough, they've all been named Kathy. And even more interesting, they all spell their name the same way because your spelling is unusual: C-A-T-H-E, Kathy. But because you're not this cat he, I've never heard that before.
Some people call me Cafe. Because that's, you know. But my point is, you're not the same person I married, and I'm not the same person you married.
Well, you are kind of. You have often said people change, but not all that much. Yeah, that's true. And I've also said people become a more exaggerated version of themselves. It's true.
I think God brings us together. He says that Eve would be his helpmeat. We're alike and we're opposite, and that's necessary to help one another to grow and to become more Christ-like. And so I think the purpose of marriage is to You cannot see yourself as you really are. You need somebody with a different vantage point to help you see yourself and help you see the things about yourself that need to get.
Changed a little bit. What about a girl that says, you know, this guy is really rough around the edges? I'm going to fix him.
Well That's not necessarily your primary role. It's God's role. To fix him, but you are definitely going to play a part in helping him. That's what help me means. You know, that I've come alongside you and you have come alongside me.
I mean, we have found that to be extremely important that. Even in the rough times, the times where we couldn't agree, that the Bible gave us a structure and an order in which I was to follow you, follow your lead, trust you. I think so many times now. You were actually saying. The husband is to be the primary leader in the marriage.
That's very controversial. That's a heavy responsibility. It is. It's very true. People don't think about that.
Be a spiritual leader. Of the family to take responsibility as provider and protector, and that I am to come alongside you in every way that I can, and that I am there also to contribute, but not primarily to provide and protect, but to build a home and a nest and a family. And, you know, someone has to plan the birthday parties, and someone has to, you know, plan the meals, and someone has to. And I absolutely love that role. And I know there are a lot of women who do work and have careers outside the home, but when you look at how Family is structured and how it flourishes best is when the husband is taking his role as spiritual leader seriously, and the wife is cheering him on and encouraging him to take that lead.
If you're always there criticizing and correcting and usurping that authority, he may never grow into the leader that God wants him to be. And on top of that, he may withdraw altogether. And then you're left with running the show yourself, which is really a bad situation as well. It's very interesting. The Bible specifically says to the wife.
Wives, it does say you should love your husband, but it also says respect your husband. And then the Bible specifically says to husbands, husbands love your wives. It's not to say that wives should not love their husbands and husbands should not respect their wives, but it is to say the Bible uses specific words. And I think sometimes we're kind of reading each other's mail. Hey, the Bible says you should do this, where we should really read our own mail.
And I think that. Men do need respect. You know, men, I think in general, I'm going to speak for all men now on earth, but I think I can speak somewhat generally and say. You know, men don't need that much. They actually just need to be affirmed.
They need to know they're valued, that what they do is noticed. And instead of always, because if you're always telling a guy what he's doing wrong and you never tell him what he does right, that's bad. But then coming to the guys, toward the girls. Love your wives. A woman needs love.
A woman needs to be affirmed. And so these are things that we need to focus on doing and constantly focus on. Yeah. I think the greatest thing a husband can do for a wife is to let her know That she is number one in his heart, and that she has his devotion and affection. I think.
For men, risking the money. You are number one in my heart, and you have my affection. And you know what, Greg? You have proved that to me over the decades. 50 years and counting, you have shown me that I am the highest human priority in your life.
Thank you. Let's just end the podcast now. One thing that, Greg, I think really we did right, and that is, despite the fact that. We were from very different backgrounds, very different upbringing, very different social standing. I had no.
I don't know, manners. I feel like I was raised by wild wolves. And I went to your house and, you know, everything is so orderly and the way the meal is served. And, you know, and I'm just sort of there. It was very different culture.
It was very different. But one thing that we after coming to Christ, we Took the Bible at face value. And that was God's instruction book for us. And so it never would have occurred to us as Christians to ever live together before we were married, to Chiff. To live and conduct our lives the way that the whole culture was moving, even at that time.
I mean, we've reaped the whirlwind of that. But what we've seen in culture today, and even in the church today, is more and more Christian couples that have decided. For economic reasons, tax reasons, whatever it is. They have decided that living together is an okay thing. Without being in the bonds and commitment of marriage.
What do you think about that? Yeah. Okay. The Bible says, you know, for this cause shall any man leave his father and mother, be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. Mm-hmm.
You're making a public commitment. to a man, to a woman, for life. Wedlock should be a padlock. And living together is a great way to sabotage your marriage. Instead of, Having a trial run, you know, as some might think, oh, it's like test driving a car.
No, it isn't. Because, first of all, if you're having sexual relations, which most likely would be happening if you're living together, you are committing fornication. That is a sin. And the Bible is very clear about this. It's on multiple occasions says that is a sin.
Okay, so you're committing continuous sin before you're married. Uh, I've read actually studies that have been done that have revealed that people that live together have a far higher divorce rate than those that wait until marriage and just get married.
So, you know, because it's kind of like You know, you can bail at any time, right? Oh, well, you know, I'm kind of tired of this and you just walk away. And people do it all the time. And they have children. And, you know, and listen, I lived this.
I lived this in real time with my mother. I think one of the good things that came out of my childhood was I didn't want to live that life. And I saw what divorce did to my mother. I saw what divorce did to me as a child. And, you know, and my mom married and divorced guys.
She lived with guys. She did like everything you shouldn't do. And so, in a way, it was sort of like, don't do this. But just to kind of put a bow on it, it's outside of God's order. It's never acceptable.
I don't care if there's financial benefits or whatever other justification you come up with. If you are two people in a home. Having sexual relations, and you're not married, you're living in sin, and God will not bless that, period. And not only that, as I said already, you're actually sabotaging. A marriage in the future.
So it's like the worst thing you could do. Yeah, because, and not only that, but if you think that living together is a trial, Brian, it is not the same as once you have made that firm commitment and made a covenant before God and before your family and legally that you are going to stay together. You are making these vows to one another. And just living together is not the same experience. And you're right, that the statistics show that most couples that live together do not end up.
Staying together. That's right. Okay, so let's shift, cares, and explore your very interesting childhood.
So we met in Long Beach, California when I was speaking at the Little Bible study, as you mentioned. Interestingly, we were both born in Long Beach, California. And yet, but you went all around the world, and I went all around the United States in between those times.
So, how did that happen and why?
Well, my father, after he got out of the Service back in World War II. He, um, graduated from USC and took a job with Standard Oil. And I think it was called Standard Vacuum at that time. And they were hiring single men to go work in the Far East. And he had spent time in the South Pacific in the Navy and decided that That he would like to do that.
So he ended up going to the Philippines and he was. Is that where he met your mother? That's where he met my mom. Your mother, Pilar. My mother, Pilar.
Pilar. Gonzalez-Lao.
So my mother is Spanish descent. And you're half-Spanish. Born and raised in the Philippines. And she met my dad, and they got married, and we lived there.
Well, ever since I was born so I was born in Long Beach, but we were uh taking a little side trip to the US and that's when I was born. But we went back to the Philippines and I lived there until I was seven years old. And then a very strict Um, Roman Catholic upbringing. My dad was not a Roman Catholic, but we did attend church every Sunday and did all the things that we were supposed to do. And then at seven, we moved to Thailand and lived in Thailand and Bangkok for a number of years.
And then we moved from there. We came to the U.S. and we lived in Princeton, New Jersey. My dad worked in New York City and he would take a train in every day. And so I experienced a little bit of what it was like to live in the U.S.
And then from there, my dad returned to the Far East and worked in Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia. My goodness. And it was there that. That was about sixth grade, seventh grade, right around the time that the whole cultural revolution took place. And it reached.
So it hit you even over there. It reached us over there. Yeah. Yeah. And so you were, okay, so you have three sisters and one brother.
And so you were in the middle. And you were being influenced by my two older sisters. Mary and Dodie, the same two that were with you at that little Bible study. Yeah. My oldest sisters began to experiment with drugs when we were living in Southeast Asia.
How old were they when that happened? My oldest sister was finishing high school.
Okay. And how old were you when you first started experimenting with drugs? Fourteen. Fourteen. Wow.
I just talked to a young man the other day. And you know, the culture of today, what kids are dealing with, the drugs are more potent, they're more readily available, and then you have the weird phenomena of social media that amplifies everything. And it's sort of like we've taken a lot of the things that we did back in those days and you've like amplified it, and you just see the devastating effect it has on kids today. But so, you guys. We're going down the wrong roads together.
So you're 14 years old, you're using drugs. These sweet little girls that were all dressed alike when you would go on flights together and so mannerly, raised so well by your mom and dad, are now beginning to rebel. Like your parents don't even know where you're going or what you're doing. The whole drug culture was really. It was mind-blowing, seriously, you know, for having been raised in very conservative and very structured upbringing.
Going to church every Sunday, many times. To the Latin Mass. Never really understood. Then you want to be a nun at some point. Yeah, but I was kind of obsessed with the TV show, The Flying Nun.
Oh, yes, The Flying Nun. And I think, you know, yeah. Anyway, I like their little veils. Yeah. I like wearing those little veils.
Well, she had that cool thing, and she'd fly literally.
Well anyhow Never having experienced anything spiritual, I was just kind of going through the motions. I made my first Holy Communion. I did my first confession. I went to church every Sunday. My mom was very, very strict.
So. But Outside of doing things on Sunday morning, I just felt like, well, if Jesus is who he said he was, and maybe he was, you know, more than a historical figure, and maybe he did do miracles, and maybe people did hear God speak to them personally and audibly, I certainly have never met anyone. Who has? And so When the drug culture came, there was this promise of enlightenment and almost experience with God. And I think there's a little bit of a difference.
We weren't getting high to necessarily party and escape. We were getting high because we thought there was some deeper truth, some deeper experience. And you know, we're following the Beatles and we're following all this stuff. And so. There was there was There were those experiences, but They were always tied to the drugs.
And You'd come down, you'd come off the drugs, and then you're back to your ordinary life, and that was that. And so, there was a great deal of, even after having just done that for a year or so, there was a great deal of emptiness that I had experienced. And so then. Um One spring day, we moved back to California. My dad finished his career with Standard Oil, and he was going to be transitioning to a different career.
I was at a high school college campus with my sister Mary, who had started college at that time, and we were getting high on the lawn thinking we were going to go in and see a a rock concert at the student lounge.
So of course we're sitting on the front lawn, the five of us girls, waiting for the concert to start and we were smoking pot. And these guys came walking up to us And it was pretty typical in those days that when someone would approach you and you're getting high, it's just like everybody shared everything.
So I was expecting them to just sit down in the circle and get high with us, but they didn't. They stood outside the circle and And they said We said, Do you want to get high? And they said, No, we don't do that anymore. And then I said, Well, why don't you do that anymore? And they said, Because we found something better.
And I said, Well, oh, yeah.
So I'm sitting, they're standing, and I'm looking up at these hippie guys, and I'm saying, Oh, yeah, well, what was it that you found that was better? And they said, A relationship with God through Jesus Christ. And I was like, Jesus Christ, are you serious? The historical Jesus, you have a relationship with him. And this connection with God.
I mean, that's not. I never met anybody in my entire life that ever said anything like that to me.
So I was intrigued, but at the same time, I was skeptical and And I had pretty much never had a sense of a connection with God or spirituality. I mean, I had heard the stories of saints and miracles and all of that. And that's the one thing the Catholic Church does teach that I'm grateful for: that Jesus really was God. Come to earth in flesh, died on the cross and rose from the dead. And so I thought, you know, maybe back then, 2,000 years ago, but not today, and you're telling me you know this today.
And then I started to laugh. And I think that. The reaction was It was a strange kind of laughter, Greg. I have to be totally honest with you that as I started to laugh, I put my hands over my face and.
Now, when you're high, you get silly and you start laughing. And there was an aspect of that that was going on, but there was another thing that happened to me as I had my hands over my face and I was laughing. A thought occurred to me, and it was the first time in my life I had ever had. Any sense of eternity or something spiritual. And I had really tried getting high, meditating.
I I had heard people have out of body experiences and all of that kind of spiritual stuff going on, but And I tried, but it never had happened for me. And But at that moment... As I was laughing, this very dark moment where I'm laughing. at what they're saying and I'm laughing at them. a thought occurred to me almost like a lightning bolt, and this thought came to me and it was, you are on your way to hell.
and what they're saying is holy and true and you need to listen to them. And I'm telling you, talk about like s sobering up and all of a sudden it was like I put my hands down and I looked up and I said, Okay.
So what do I need to do? Wow. And they told me. That's a work of the Holy Spirit. It was.
And I will say, I had girlfriends, we'd do something naughty and they'd say, Oh, let's go pray before the crucifix and ask Jesus to forgive us of our sins. And I would stand back and I would watch and I would just think. Why are you doing that? It's just the cross on my wall that my mom put there. And they had some conviction of their sin.
I never had a sense of that ever in my life until that moment. And that's when I gave my life to Christ. Yeah. Turned out that rock concert was a Christian rock concert. I think it was a Christian band called Agape.
It was a hard rock, very hard rock band. Yeah. Yeah. That played in the student lounge at Long Beach City. Which was a very cool thing of that era where there was this thinking, let's go out everywhere and engage people with the gospel.
And you were reached on a campus, a college campus. I was reached on a high school campus. And I think we need to see more of that today: people going out where people are and evangelizing them. And not. Ever underestimating the power of the Holy Spirit.
To bring to life a dead conscience, and have an encounter with the supernatural. I think that all over college campuses today, and you hear about it more and more frequently, is a A fascination with the occult and people looking for a connection with something supernatural. you know, I heard someone say that the whole new atheist movement is dying and. Death on college campuses. Most people, if they're at all not Christian in following Jesus, they are.
Playing and toying around with the occult, whether it's Ouija boards or whether it's seances, whether it's The astrology charts and all of that, yeah, tarot cards, that kind of thing. People are really hungry and thirsty for some things like we're talking about.
So, a good little sideline, a warning. To stay away from those things. Oh, I read my astrology column every morning, or I like to play with the tarot cards, or you know, a Ouija board or whatever. These are dangerous things, these are doorways to darkness. And you don't want to go down these roads.
These are not little toys to play with, they're deceptions from Satan, who is described in the Bible as an angel of light. He doesn't always come in his depravity. He comes all with this enlightening thing, or this is going to help you be a better person or be really pleasurable. And he's just a liar. He's the father of lies, the Bible says.
So let's shift gears now.
So you've come to Christ. I've come to Christ. We get married. I marry myself. And so we have our first son, Christopher.
And were you prepared to be a mother at the age of 19? I was probably the least prepared person in the world because I was raised by nannies. My mom. My mom didn't even nurture and feed us and bathe us when we were little. We had nannies that took care of us, and so.
you know, when we when we got married and Here's another thing. Culture today is putting off having children. It's like, you know, let's wait until we're more financially stable. Let's wait until we are providing people. We're far from financially stable.
We were at poverty level. We really actually were starting the church, yeah. And But we made it work and So But after we'd been married for six months, it was like, well, let's have a baby. You know, what's next? And so, yeah, we did have Christopher.
And. I remember 5 pounds, 12 ounces. Yeah, yeah. I remember when, after he was born, I was all excited, and we went home, and I sat down and thought, I don't know. The first thing about being a father, because I'd never had a father.
You didn't say that to me, though. No, I wouldn't. I was like, 'Cause I felt the same way. We went from the hospital to my mom's house, and the nanny that took care of me actually was still living with my mom and dad. I've sort of reverted back to being a child again.
Someone else is taking care of the baby now. But three days later, you said, we need to go home. And so we packed up little crazy things. I was afraid you might move back in with your parents again. It was very secure compared to the crazy world we were living in.
But we drove from Long Beach back to Riverside, and I remember. Listening to John Denver and his music. And I cried the whole way. I knew I was going through a little bit of postpartum depression. And I had worked for an OBGYN for a little period of time as a back office nurse, so I had a sense of what was happening to me hormonally and so forth, but nothing really prepared me for the way I felt, just completely.
Um At sea, you know, overwhelmed with the thought and the responsibility of a little one. And no, you were great. I would be crying all day long, but you were great. I thought you were like this. I wasn't having the postpartum depression.
We managed, we managed. Yeah. You know, three months.
Well, I think not having a father. It made me, it's funny because, you know, instead of wanting to just, well, I don't know what I'm doing, whatever, I really began to read, you know, get great Christian books, like books by James Dobson and others, how to be a parent. I talked to people who are parents, ask them a lot of questions. And I actually wanted to be the best father possible. I did, speaking of Dobson, I did hear him say once, every parent owes their first child an apology.
And I thought, that's kind of funny because, you know, when you're doing it for the first time, you probably overdo everything a little bit. And I know that I did tend to spoil Christopher. I think I wanted to give him the childhood I did not have, right? One time we went to a toy store, I go, Christopher, let's go to a toy store. And we're at Star Wars without the first time.
So this is early 70s. And I said, pick out for yourself a figure, a Star Wars figure.
So he's looking at, you know, Luke Skywalker and Han Solo and Bob. Boba Fett and all these characters. And he goes, Dad, I picked it out. And he picks out Han Solo. And then I said, How about this to go with it?
And I got the Millennium Falcon off the top shelf, which was giant. And we came home with all of these toys. And you're just like, what are you doing? I know, because although we had money growing up, we never got toys like that. No, and I really couldn't even afford it, but I just wanted to give him these things, you know, because I guess I didn't have those things.
And I wanted him to know he had a father who loved him.
Well, he did. He had a great dad. And you provided not just toys, you provided guidance and teaching. And you brought him up in the way of the Lord. And he was a very, very happy little boy.
Yeah. And he loved you, as does our other son, Jonathan. Yes. And. I think that was the one thing that my mom saw because they were very concerned.
Just like in the movie, they did not want me to marry you. They were very concerned about your background. That, you know, what kind of a husband, what kind of a father were you going to be, having had no great examples growing up. My mom told me that the first time she realized that you were different was when Christopher was born in the hospital. And she watched the way you looked at me when I was in labor and how much you loved me and how much you loved that little boy.
And so, yeah, that was the beginning of a huge shift in my mom. And they both came to absolutely love and appreciate you. And my mom said a thousand times to me, I so misjudged Greg.
Well, you are a changed person, you know, and you know, God. Can take people out of really rough circumstances. You may not have had a great example at home, you may not have had a great father, but. God is a great father. And the scriptures give us a lot of guidance.
And if we will come with our broken lives, he begins to put us back together again in the best possible way. I think if, you know, sometimes people will excuse their behavior because they say, well, that's the way it is in my family. You know, we're all this way, or alcoholism runs in our family, divorce runs in our family, etc.
Well, maybe it does. But, you know, well, it's a generational curse. There's no generational curses, but there can be repeated behavior. The Bible says the sins of the parents can be visited on the children. That doesn't mean it's some nebulous curse on your family that you have nothing to say about.
What it means is if you keep doing the bad things that were done to you, yeah, that can be passed on. But the good news is righteousness can be passed on.
Now, we each have to make our own commitment to Christ, but you can pass on righteous principles and say, no, this is the way we do it in our family now. Because if any man be in Christ, He is an altogether different kind of person. Old things have passed away. Behold, God says I make everything fresh and new.
So, you know, I think he can break the cycle of sin. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I heard it once said that there are three things that make us who we are. There's our genetics.
There's our environment. But this one very wise Dr. A.E. Wildersmith, he said this, and I've never forgotten it. There's a third component, and that is the power of the Holy Spirit that makes us who we are.
I love that. And that, you know, he, like you said, is. In Christ, old things pass away and all things become new. You don't have to be the person that. Perhaps your father was, or your mother was, or your environment brought you up in.
You can make a break, and the power of the Holy Spirit is there to help you do that. You need to just ask, you know? And then look at the things that the scripture lays out. I mean, God gives us His guidebook for living. He didn't leave us without instructions.
And, you know, people say, oh, I can't read the Bible, it's too complicated. Let me tell you.
Okay, it's fine. There may be passages and portions of the scripture that are difficult to understand, especially when you get to apocalyptic literature. Maybe leave that for when you get a little more mature in the Lord, but there is so much there that is on the surface that is clear and understandable that you can take and build your life and your family, your marriage, all of these things, all of society and culture would benefit if people would read their Bibles and apply the things that God tells us to do in them. Right. I think, you know, like it's sort of like first you build the walls of your marriage, and that builds the walls of the culture and ultimately the nation.
You can almost trace every problem in America today to the breakdown of the family and specifically the absence of fathers. Let's talk for a moment about Masculinity and femininity. And since you're a woman, Yeah. What femininity is And what a girl should aspire to. Because they're getting a lot of false information fed to them.
You know, and so they what is the model they should aspire to?
Well, again, I go right back to the scripture. I mean, what I think and what my opinions are and My experiences may have some value or may have no value. What I found to be absolute bedrock truth that I have proven and tested in my own life is that what God's instructions are for women and his definition of what is a woman, going all the way back to the book of Genesis, we see how woman was created in a different way than men were. Adam was created out of the dust of the ground. He was created out of the field.
God formed him. breathed into him and gave him the breath of life. Through that whole creation narrative in Genesis, we see that Adam. Was alone. Everyone else, every other creature that God made had a partner and a counterpart.
And Adam was alone. And God said, It is not good that man should be alone.
So. He put Adam to sleep for a minute and he created Eve out of his rib. That's right. Out of his side.
So. Men are different. They are created from dirt, from dust. Look at a boy. Look at most boys.
And you will see this is there's a roughness, there's a rawness. They were Created in a different way. Eve was created within the confines of the garden. She was created from his side. She is there as a part of who he is, and God was the one who brought.
The woman to the man.
Okay, so women are, first of all, we're different. Yeah. Male and female. Different.
So, this whole idea will not interchangeable. I'm a woman trapped in a man's body, vice versa. I'm going to go have the surgery and I'm going to become a woman, a man says, or the woman says, I'm going to become a man. This is just such. Just, I mean, even where we're having the discussion about what a woman is, what a man is, it's so obvious.
And they're introducing. That it is what you want it to be, that you can define that. All the way in kindergarten. These children are being introduced this idea. And I don't know about you, Gregg, but there were many times.
As an adolescent girl, that I'm felt like this is so bizarre. I don't like what's happening to me. I don't like this, especially for a female. I mean, boys that go through puberty, they come out on the other side, and it's a pretty steady line after that. Girls, we are again, our bodies are so different than yours.
We are so much more complex. I like to think of it, we are more finely tuned. We go through a lot and During that period of adolescence, I mean, that is your emotions and your thoughts can be so scrambled. And to introduce to a child that those feelings should be trusted, that you can take surgical action based on what you might feel. And you just want to say to parents and to kids.
That is not going to help you. And the science is proving it. And the outcome of these kids that have gone through these surgical transitions, they are just as suicidal as you can. I feel sometimes this is the parents. The parents, I don't know why they would do this.
But it's interesting when you look in Hollywood and see how many children of celebrities. Are identifying as trans. Why such a high percentage? And I think one of the reasons is it's almost a form of virtue signaling. Look at how open I am, I am, you know, how liberated I am that, oh, I'm not gonna, you know, I'm gonna let my boy dress up like a girl or vice versa, maybe even encourage that.
And then to actually have a parent, you know, okay and go along with a surgery, a life-altering surgery. We watched a documentary the other day which showed. What happens when they do the surgery? And I'd never seen this before. Like a horror show.
It was horrifying. And you'd think to mutilate a child who doesn't know any better, who's looking to the parent to guide them through these difficult, rough waters of adolescence, and then to have this permanent surgery and then to live with that the rest of their lives. It's to me, these parents, how irresponsible, even evil it is.
Well, I think that's the word evil because. I mean, when you really stop and look, at these things that are going on that have never gone on. At any other time, all I can think of is what. What we are told in scripture, and that in the last days there will be satanically energized times. There will be phenomena that we'd never seen before, and deceptions and delusions that are being spread.
You know, we're told. that the devil comes to to he lies. He steals, he kills, he destroys. And what better way to destroy God's beautiful creation and plan of redemption for mankind than to begin to introduce the lie that we can decide for ourselves just like Eve was tempted in the garden. You will be as gods, knowing, making your own definitions of good and evil.
But, Greg, I mean, so many of these things that are happening that are just absolutely unheard of in history. Don't you think that we are living truly in the last days? And these kids, and even, you know. How How these The confusion and the message is being propagated On our phones, on cell phones. Yeah, they call it a social contagion.
But they. The depression among young girls that are on social media too much are looking at w you know, all this stuff that goes on, all the bullying that goes on, the the suicide rate among young people is unbelievable. You know, I was so excited when the first um iPhone came out. But boy, I tell you now, when I look at what it's a portal to so many people. It is truly Pandora's box.
If there would be a way to raise a teenager without a cell phone, it could be a game changer.
Well, I think it was Steve Jobs who didn't even allow his children to have cell phones. Yeah, it makes sense.
Okay, so let's put a bow on it.
Okay, we're talking about women. We're talking about femininity, and you're talking about the unique way that women were created in contrast to men, who you described as being created out of dirt, and they like to play in dirt.
So. A young girl's listening to this right now. And she's getting all this information from everything from TikTok to Teen Vogue to this to that to her peers. And most of it, false information. Like you need to be highly sexualized to be appealing to a guy.
Then you have platforms like OnlyFans, where girls are monetizing their bodies and being exploited.
So awful. And so let's give them a. A good biblical girl's This is what you should aspire to. Tell them. Conte Laurie.
Because you are that person.
Well, it it's really amazing how the scriptures say the older women are to teach the younger women to be chaste, to be modest, to be keepers at home, to love their husbands, to love their children. What does chaste mean? Chaste means not Chaste as someone's chasing you. Chaste, as in living a life that is morally upright, that goes in alignment with the music. And those morals come from where?
The scripture, obviously.
Okay, when the Bible uses the word modest, does that mean, okay, young girls, who wants to be fashionable? All the girls are wearing this certain outfit. Does she have to be, oh, I can't wear anything fashionable. I'm just sackcloth and ashes. That's the look now.
I think it's understanding too how men's minds work, that men are it's what they see with their eyes that can actually cause them to be tempted to sin.
Some guys, their minds are in the gutter, and there's nothing you're going to be able to do to fix them. Lust after a tree. But the last thing in the world you want to do is to be. A stumbling block or cause some young man to lust after you.
So dressing modestly, and obviously, culturally, these things have shifted. Once upon a time, a woman would never show their ankles, you know.
So we know that there are some cultural adjustments that can be made, but I think we all know what is sort of the middle ground, the safe ground that we are to occupy as women in society, and that is to not put our bodies on display to cause people to tempt them to sin. To be attractive is fine, you know. I mean, we do want, I mean, people have to look at the outside of you. Yeah, let's kind of take the opposite end of that now, kid, because when you look at the virtuous woman of Proverbs 31, you know, she's an entrepreneur, she buys a field. You know, she's a physically active woman because there might be some girls that would say, well, you know what, that's worldly to be attractive and bodily exercise doesn't profit that much, the Bible says.
And so they don't. Do anything to make themselves attractive. And sometimes this might happen after marriage. And that's an extreme, too, isn't it? Absolutely.
And, you know, just because you're married doesn't mean that you don't want to be attractive for your husband. You know, you want to do the best that you can with what you've got. Yes. You know, make the best of it.
So there's a balance to all of these things. And the balance is often found in scripture, but also in real-life modeling of that. And that's why. Within the church And within our church, we have systems in place and. Connections in place between older women and younger women to help teach them and train them and to guide them through these things.
Because you know, when you're young, you don't know, and neither do your friends. You know, you're all in the same boat together.
So, find somebody who's a little further down the road than you are and is living the life that you think is admirable and that is leading to a fulfilled and happy life. And find that person and pattern yourself after that. Good advice. You know, just find that place. And learn to understand that.
God's plans for us are so much better than our plans for ourselves. If God says don't do something, it's for our own good. No good thing will he withhold from those that walk uprightly.
So if God says no, that's not a good thing. Good that he said no. Walls of protection are important. And so for women to know what those things are, what God values most, that meek and quiet spirit, that heart that is devoted to Him and loves and serves, is such a beautiful thing. And um The most important thing.
To realize, and the one thing I would like to say to young girls now is when you're looking for that right guy, you know, you're never going to find the perfect guy. Find a godly man, yes, and don't think he's ever going to be perfect, you're never going to be perfect either. But find a godly man who's following after the Lord and then. Don't delay. Getting married.
Because you need to finish your college education, or you want to have the big career, be in the corporate world, or whatever you want to do, don't put that off. I think one of the biggest lies that the feminist movement sold to my generation was that put off having children, put off marrying, get your career, get your education first, and then have that come later. But unfortunately, what they Aren't telling you is the truth of the matter is your body is designed to reproduce and have children, ideally, between the ages of 20 to maybe mid-30s. And then after that, you become what they call a geriatric pregnancy with higher risks.
So if you're thinking, well, I'll just put this off, well, who knows how much longer you're going to wait. In order to have children. And we are seeing a decline in population in this country, a decline in population in the West, in particular. And you know what? There isn't going to be much of a world to live in if we stop having marriages and stop having children.
Yes. This is going to all fall apart pretty fast. And is that not? Also, again, part of the big agenda that the enemy of our souls would like to perpetrate, the lies that he would like to. To propagate, especially on young women and young men.
And I think when women begin to live as women ought to live, respecting and allowing men to be men and to lead as men, then we're going to start seeing guys be who they are designed to be and stepping out. But as long as we're standing over them, I'm smarter than you are, I can do the job better than you can, putting them down, critiquing them. You know, what is that doing but emasculating what it is that God has created men to be? And young boys need to hear this from their mothers and from their fathers to be encouraged to be men. Yes.
To go out. I mean, when they, boys, want to, why do they fight with each other? Why do they get so physical? Why? Because.
Ultimately, God wants boys to be able to protect a home, to protect a family, to build and use those skills in the right way.
Now, we're not supposed to encourage them to go out and be bullies and beat up on each other for no reason, but you know, when they see injustice, if they want to step up and say, No, this is wrong, I'm going to do something about it, we should encourage that. Be a man and do those manly things, and women. Do the womanly things, do the right things, and let...
society and marriages and families be um Put together the way God designed. Just look at our bodies for crying out loud, women. You are not stronger than a guy. He has designed men to be the ones who go out and fight and protect and provide, go out into the world, have their life in the field, so to speak. You live your life in the beauty of a home and in the confines of a creating, to me, I love the aspect of seeing a woman who.
Who makes and cherishes family, builds traditions. She's the one who plans the birthday parties, the celebrations, remembers everybody's anniversaries. And that's, you know, those are gifts that God has given women. And all of us benefit as a result of it. You should write a book about this.
I think I've said everything I want to say. No, that sounds to me like a book outline. What are the practical things that I as your wife. can do that Make you feel loved and respected and, um, Like you're the most important.
Well, human person in my life. You know. There's um A scene from Fiddler on the Roof. Where Tevya and I think his wife is Golda are having the discussion. And there's that song Do you love me?
You know, and he's talking about how much he loves. And she says, Do I love you? Yeah. For 31 years, I've cooked your food. I've cleaned your clothes.
I've kept your house. That's right. How can you say, do I love you? Yeah, exactly. And so I think that's a really good point.
And the point of it is: there's things that we say and there's things that we do. And I know that you love me because of all that you do for me every day. And I'm dependent on you. Like, if you didn't feed me, I would just starve. I would just sit and starve.
I'd probably go out and buy some food somewhere. No, you'd be at Taco Bell. I would. I like Taco Bell. Oh.
It's really good. But there's too many things on the menu now and it's too complicated. But I always default back of a bean burrito and a taco. But they have all these things, new things. No, but I think it's just doing those things and Like I said earlier, I don't think guys need a lot, but they need some.
And it's easy, I think, to take a guy for granted.
So just to say periodically, thank you for what you do. Thank you for being the man, you know, because you want to be encouraged to be a man. And Like, I heard about a conversation with a man and a woman, how we think differently. And the woman says, Why don't you stop and ask for directions when they get lost? And the man hears her say, You're not a man, you know.
And then the woman says, Let's spend a lot of money or let's redecorate the house. And he hears her say, Let's take a bunch of money and flush it down the toilet. Or she says, Um You need to get more in touch with your feelings. And then he hears her say, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then she says, Are you listening to what I'm saying?
And he hears her say, blah, blah, blah.
So we communicate differently. But I do think that, you know, we just need to be affirmed. Again, wives respect your husband. And so I think the very fact that you asked me, talk about my weaknesses. No, I would not do that.
And here's why. Because I am there to protect you. And if I see a weakness in you, I will tell you that personally, but I will not say that publicly to anybody because I protect you. You know, you're under my protection. And I will only speak of you in a positive way because that's loving this.
Christ loves the church. And that's why I think when we have conflicts, you know, you should never do it in front of people, never in front of the kids. The worst thing you can do is argue in front of your children. And even worse than that, is ask them to take sides. Who's right, mom or dad?
Don't do that to a poor child. But so work out your differences, and you're going to have differences. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing. And there's not always, not everything is right and wrong.
I mean, the Bible does not perverse on, should you paint the house, you know, light blue or tan. I mean, in our home, I default to you. I say, look, this is your home. I have an opinion. I think this, but I let you make the decision for anything regarding the home.
But then I say, but if it's anything involving electronics or gadgetry, that's my domain. If we're going to put a TV in, I will decide that. I want to, I'm interested in the tech, you know, but I let, you know, so I think you have to say, this is her domain, this is my domain, and we do our job. I'm there as a protector, literally a protector. If anyone would want to bring harm in my family, I'm there to protect and put my life on the line if necessary.
I'm there to be a provider. Bible even says that if a man does not provide for his home, he's worse than a non-believer.
So, my job is to always provide, but not just provide physically and have food on the table for you to cook so wonderfully as you do, but to provide spiritual guidance, to provide the encouragement, and to provide all the things that a man should do. And I think that we just, if we could just do what God has designed us to do and stop listening to the lies of this stupid culture, what does this culture know about anything? You know, with marriages unraveling and culture unraveling and crime growing and all the things that are going wrong, why would I ever listen to that? For my advice, or oh, let's look at it. Yeah, you'd be better off doing whatever culture says, do the exact opposite.
Literally, in many cases, that would be true. Like, so, and so many of us, we look for cultural cues, oh, this movie, this, or I saw this on TikTok. Hey, listen, a lot of these people just flat out have it wrong.
So, we have an absolute source of truth: the Bible.
So, that brings our podcast to a conclusion, Kathy, because we've filled an hour and more. And I think we'll do a part two and a part three, and we have a lot more to talk about to share with folks. But today, this will be the end.
So, I'll give you the closing word: What do you have to say to all these people that were listening today?
Well? Don't give up. That's good. Don't give up. Be hopeful.
Yeah. You can change slowly. And sometimes it's hard, but you can change and you can see your marriage change. Greg, we were talking about marriages. I just thought of several marriages that are of dear friends that I have.
Who I think Outsiders would have said, you should leave. You should just. Just bail on this, but they didn't. Oh, you mean Mary and George? Oh, we shouldn't say that publicly.
There's no Maria George. But people you know that she could have made a case for her saying, forget this. She could have held together and have lived to see change. Children and grandchildren, and have come through on the other side. You know, I heard the statistics are: if you're planning to get divorced and you will wait five years, and this isn't even just for Christian couples, just wait five years.
Most of the time, those things get resolved. We live in such instant gratification right now that we want to see instant transformation and change.
So, you know, for all the couples and all the ladies and guys, and ones who want to be married, and ones who want to have children and raise families, and all of that, you know, be patient, pray, and ask God to bring that right person to you. Let's just kind of, I know we're closing, but let me just ask this. Let's talk to a single guy or a single girl.
So, God can call you to singleness. Like Paul said, he that is married cares for the things of his wife. That's not a criticism, it's an observation and an accurate one, obviously. Hey, you have to care about your family. I can't just say, Kathy, I'm going to, you know, leave for three months and go backpack through Europe.
No, no, I have responsibilities. Corey Tinboom never got married, and she was greatly used by God. And we could cite many examples of wonderful people that God has used in special ways.
So, what about a person who maybe is single and maybe they're going to remain single? What about their life? Because we're talking so much about that. Find the person, get married, have children.
Okay, what about someone that's not called to that?
Well, Jesus was the perfect human, yes, and he was never married. And what I would say is that use. Your freedom? to pursue the things of the Lord and to serve the Lord. My sister is single, and I look at her life and how free she is to serve Jesus on so many levels.
You secretly admire that, don't you? I'm so grateful for her in my life. And I have seen how it's just she's living the most beautiful, fulfilled, and happy life right now. But another tip. For those of you who are single but would like to be married, I would say the same thing: serve the Lord.
Some of the Best Marriages That I've seen are two people serving side by side that have fallen in love with each other as they've served the Lord together. And they may not even have started with an attraction. Yeah, you know, you go to the singles club or the singles. fellowship or whatever and everybody's looking at each other. And as And I think that's part of the problem.
But if you're serving Jesus, find a serve team at the church. Find a place to be useful. And as you're serving, Maybe there's somebody standing right next to you who's serving Jesus in the same way that's single, and that would be just such a beautiful thing to end up doing that together. You know, helping each other to go even further in your service and love for Jesus. That's right.
Okay, well, thanks for joining us. And next time, we'll talk about more. aspects of relationships and family and and a lot more.
So Thanks for watching or listening, however you took this podcast in. And God bless you. Hey, everybody, thanks for listening to my podcast. Before you go, I wanted to let you know about the important work we're doing here at Harvest. You know, we've had the same goal these last 50 years, which is simply this.
We want to know God and we want to make Him known. And we do that in a lot of ways. Documentary films, animation, radio, television, large-scale evangelistic events, and more. If you want to be a part of what we're doing to fulfill the great commission, you can support us with whatever you can give at harvest.org slash donate. Again, that's harvest.org slash donate.
And thanks so much.
