Mm. Is your marriage struggling? Communication breaking down? Trust fading? Conflict that never seems to resolve?
There's still hope. Hope Restored marriage intensives by focus on the family help couples step away from daily life and focus fully on rebuilding their relationship. And right now, through the Marriage Investment Initiative, Hope Restored is investing $1,000 toward marriage intensives. Visit hoperestored.com/slash marriage-investment. And it was just the same thing, and it just kept cycling.
And I kept responding, and he kept responding, and it just was. What were we 20-something years in? And it was like, it's either you or me, or get us some help, basically. I mean, that's pretty dramatic. Yeah, he's a therapist.
I'm like, obviously, you can't fix this, so get us some help. to help fix this.
Well, that's Nan Deal describing some of the pain points in her marriage to her husband Ron. And they're with us again today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly to unpack a little more and to help us understand how we can get to a better spot in our own marriages. I'm John Fuller, and thanks for joining us. You know, John, I think after yesterday's program, it made me think about the speck in the eye. And I've never really thought about that verse in the context of marriage, but it's glaringly obvious.
I mean, who's closer to you than your spouse?
So that speck in the eye. Analogy that Jesus gave us in Matthew, which is look at that log in your own eye before you look at the speck in your spouse's eye. I'm saying it that way for that application. But man, isn't that so true that we're so quick to see the other person's faults before we see our own, which is what he's saying. Right.
And I don't know why, but we tend to think it's, I'm fine, I'm fine. It's them. They're the problem. How about this? If you can just get your act together, we'd have a great marriage.
I mean, I think at some point in our 39 years, I think I may have thought of that. I don't want to admit it, but we've had a great discussion last time with Ron and Nan Deal, and we're going to continue that discussion today. And we covered concepts about how we trigger one another. And I did confess at that point that I'm really good at pushing those buttons. And that's probably true for many married couples.
We just don't get off that craziness. And we keep doing that. When she hurts me, I push that button. That's how I get my reward. And it's not a smart way to do your marriage.
And we're going to continue today to talk about how to have a better marriage by loving one another. Yeah. And the book that forms the basis for our conversation is The Mindful Marriage: Create Your Best Relationship Through Understanding and Managing Yourself. And of course, we have copies of that book here at the ministry. Ron and Nan, welcome back to Focus on the Family.
Good to have you for day two. Thank you. Yeah. Let me, I couldn't ask this question because of time constraints last time, but I do want to pick up with this one. Because in the book, you relate to those feelings we have and the way that we misinterpret communication from our spouse based on what we learned.
Reflexively, as a child, whatever that might be, and the book goes into great detail for people to be able to self- Analyze and say, Yeah, that's me. This is why I react when you push me. I feel insecure, I feel abandoned, as you mentioned last time, Dan. But in that regard, it's not true. What we're experiencing is not the truth.
And that is so critical. I mean, the scripture is full of that example, right? Know what is true. Exactly. And we know that through knowing scripture, knowing the Lord, loving the Lord.
But tie that in a bow for me. What I would say is, there is a truth. To me, my big pain point is: I'm not good enough, I'm inadequate. And I'm trying to outrun that label. In my own head, and in my wife's head, and anybody else's head, 24/7, unless.
I come to see what the capital T truth is. There's a little truth that sometimes I do feel inadequate.
Sometimes I've really messed up. And whether it was childhood or marriage, now, yeah, that's true. But what does that mean? Does that add up to? I'm not okay with the person, that my worth and value is gone.
No, it doesn't. I'll never forget, guys, the day I realized here's that capital T truth, God whispering to me. Nan could be disappointed with me in any given moment. And it does not mean it's the end of our marriage. It doesn't mean it's the end of me.
It doesn't mean that that adds up to my worth and value. And that I could actually admit. that I was disappointing to her, and it wasn't going to be the end of the world.
Now I know that sounds really funny to say out loud, but for some reason, somewhere in my history, I kind of decided that's what's at stake here. and as long as I live with that hypersensitivity, Then any disappointment is a monumental moment, and I am going to fight against it as much as I can.
Well, that just brings out the worst in me. And things spin in all the wrong directions.
So for me to be able to go, oh, no.
Now what is the truth? God tells me my worth and value is in Jesus Christ. That's number one. We always say go vertical before you try to do the horizontal.
So you remember who you are in Christ.
Okay, with that I also know Nan loves me. and she can be upset or irritated at any given moment. That's not the end of us. We'll get through this. I may have something to learn.
I can reflect on that. We'll find our way through. Just relax. Like, all of that sounds simple. But when you're Brain neurologically sets off on a pathway of doing what it knows to do, reacting how it knows to react.
It is not simple to slow that thing down and go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's the truth and how do I live out of it? Ron, for us, let me speak from the husband's side because this is what I know best. But there was a day for you where you missed a couple of Nan's phone calls and you started to fret like she's going to be upset. Has any other guy ever been in that place? All our hands go, yes.
And we're running in our heads, like, I know she's going to accuse me of being distracted. Fill in those blanks. And then, Nan, tell us, and this is healthy, how you processed it and where your head was at. Yeah. So if anybody who saw and listened yesterday will know that me overworking is part of the things that I do to cope with feeling inadequate.
So when I missed those calls, I'm thinking, oh, here we go. She's going to be mad. She's going to walk in the door. She's going to unload. And I need to get prepared for that.
And then I remembered my four steps and I said, wait a minute, wait a minute. That's the old Ron who's fretting and anxious and upset and already guarded and already defending myself before she's ever even come back. What's the truth?
Well, the truth is, maybe I May have made a mistake. Maybe I missed. Or the truth is, she's not gonna leave me even if she is disappointed.
So calm down, Ron. Let's give her, and here's another truth. Nan's growing, we're changing. Our us-ness is different than it used to be. Let's give this a chance to see how it plays out and be more calm about it.
Sure enough, she walked in the door. And let's give it to Nan. And I was like, hey, she was nice. Sweet. Help me.
I'm not only that that you had earbuds in, right? Yeah. You weren't that concerned about Ron's day. I wasn't that concerned. And, you know, my triggers are abandonment.
And so not him picking up or even answering a text or a call is, oh, he's too busy. Everything else is more important than me. And you didn't experience it. I did not experience that because I'd been working on me and being mindful of me. You know, I can see now.
Okay. That day we went into doctor Hargrave's office. And I saw him. with a sentence, humble Ron. I really, in that moment, thought, yay, he has fixed him when, in fact, There was so much in me that I needed to trust God with, and I needed to work on me.
And so, in that moment, walking in was after months of, wait a minute. He could be busy. he could be really doing something very important and Was it really important what you needed? And if you really needed him, you could have said, I've fallen and I can't get up. I mean, you could have given him a different message.
But It's more of a mindfulness in me of He's changing, and you can change your response in this moment. Guys, you gotta hear that. She comes in in peace. I don't just assume the worst. I was sitting in peace.
Yes. What for a second or two I thought was about to be a disaster turned out to be absolutely nothing. In part, Due to both of us doing our work, dealing with the log in our own eyes.
So when we finally got together, I was, she walked by, said hello, had a smile. I'm like, wow, this is amazing. And a few minutes later, I just checked in, hey, sorry I missed your calls. Was that anything? And she was like, yeah, no, it wasn't a big deal.
But yeah, we can talk about that. And so It didn't have to be about abandonment and inadequacy. Right. because we didn't let it go there. You know, here you are working on things.
This is good. And you're moving forward, and you have these examples of where it's not the same pattern, it's a better new pattern, and you're. racking up victories in your relationship. Nan You then Started to experience something with your son, both of you, but it really. devastated you, as it should, obviously, but what happened with Connor and what was your reaction over the long haul?
Well We saw Terry in 2007, and our son died of a MRSA staph infection after being sick for just 10 days, which came out of nowhere. He was 12. And that was in 08. 09. That was 09.
So, truly, the Lord's provision being in Terry's office and working with him for two years to set a stage for then. The rug jest was completely Pulled out from underneath us. And then at that point, Terry was just our grief counselor. And I'm so very grateful for the time he spent with us. caring and hearing are grief.
He was so kind with it, wasn't he? Absolutely. But In the beginning, Ron and I grieved very much the same. and he never left me. It was We were thrust together.
We had the same sorrows. We had the same anger. We had the same doubt and disillusionment with faith in God and what has just happened. and we were saying why together. And then about four years in.
I I saw him Journeying To some resolution, so to speak, as he was reading Job. And he had some. Not just it's over, but some peace about it. and some surrender with his grief. and I was still just Feeling so abandoned, so abandoned, so lost.
But you have to understand I poured myself into my boys. I feel like it was my identity. And Connor and I had such a sweet and special relationship. Um He was the one that had my back. All three of my boys adore me, but Connor just had my back.
And that was special. It truly was. That's good. And he, um, He was the glue? in between the boys too.
So there was not only my loss and Ron's loss, but it just completely devastated our family and our other two children.
So our youngest is sleeping beside our bed for two years. Our oldest is 14 at the time, and who wants to be the 14-year-old brother who has a A brother that's Gone. I mean, going to middle school like that. Middle school's hard enough. And so, um, I'm navigating all of that and just feeling like Where are you, God, in this?
And, um As you said, I feel like my faith wasn't as strong as it is now. And so they were just. Avenues and ways with numbing. with alcohol and prescription medication, that was my way of coping for about a decade. Yeah, I mean, that's big.
And again, I so appreciate that because people are there. Oh, sure. You know, these are good Christian people. But that's probably one of the most difficult things somebody can experience in life. My brother, my oldest brother, Mike, and his wife had that similar loss with cancer with their son.
But it happens. And just that. I mean, it's like, Lord. Yeah. You know, you start doing the equation, right?
I've lived my life for you. Why would you take my son or my daughter from me? And it's not a healthy place to be. We don't have those answers. And I feel like I was doing it well because Also, this is the prideful part of me.
I feel like I was doing it right. Because I didn't have that growing up.
So I'm going to do it right. And you know what? We were great. Of anything in our marriage, parenting was great. We just connected and did it together in Tan.
It was just a beautiful thing. And I just feel like. We had this Norman Rockwell painting with this gold. We truly had a golden retriever, and it just the boys would hug each other and kiss each other before they go to bed at night. And Connor was reading to us out of his chapter book, and things were beautiful like that with the boys.
And it, you know, we were on the cusp of the preteen.
So it was, everything was still really just sweet. It was a sweet season, and it was like. And we prayed for them and prayed about them and And then it was like, and we were taking them to church. I feel like, you know, I was checking off all those boxes, Lord. I was doing A and B and C and Really?
And he was a healthy kid. It came out of nowhere, and I just never saw it coming. Let me, there's two questions here. I think one, Ron, is for you seeing Nan suffer in that way, and like she described, you're coming to this place of.
Some resolution. You're never going to be completely resolved on that with the Lord, but you're getting to a place saying, okay, Lord, I feel like I'm through it. I'm moving forward. But Nan is in trouble. I mean, drinking and even prescription drugs, like you said, for about 10 years.
What are you thinking at that point? Yeah, it was really difficult. Safety in a relationship is everything, and um the more She numbed the less safe things got in our relationship, right?
So some of those old. Triggers are now super sensitive. And I'm trying to manage me and trying to figure out how to love and be in connection with her and be supportive. and at the same time not liking How she would react and respond. And by the way, I didn't even fully understand the depth of it.
Like she would wait till I would go to sleep, and then she'd get out a second bottle of wine. And so by day, Things work sort of okay, you know, it's just by night things got really difficult. Yeah, it was hard. In his defense, and I was lying to everybody. I was lying to all my physicians to keep the prescription medication going.
A lot of that kind of had the same effect as alcohol, you know, just to numb the feelings, the anxiety medication. And then it was always at night. And as soon as he'd go to bed, and he is a deep, deep sleeper, and you know, we're empty nests. My boys are off to college and living their lives. It really took on a life of its own.
It truly took on a life of its own. And I lied to a lot of people. As I've come out with this, I've had dear friends going, why didn't you tell me? My sister, sister-in-law, family, friend, you know, and I feel like it was the enemy's way of isolating me. Absolutely.
I truly was in bondage with it because there were multiple times I tried to get off of it. And I had so much withdrawal. That scared me. But also he would be whispering to me all the time. Like I'd think maybe I should go to rehab.
And I remember thinking, Yeah, go to rehab and your husband's just started this huge ministry. Yeah. You've moved a little rock, and here you go. Oh, you'll ruin that for him. I mean, the lies of the enemy.
And I tell you, all of that from childhood, me taking care of things myself, taking care of self with marriage, and then that was my way of taking care of this grief. And it just became chains. Yeah. You know, that scripture, John 10, 10, some people may not know it. Christians who read the word know this one.
This was the first scripture that a family who gave me a Bible when I was 15 wrote in there, John 10, 10. And I read it. You know, it's a little freaky. It's scaredy. You know, that the thief, Satan, the thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy.
That's an example of it. Have that isolation, you know, and that's exactly what he does each and every day we live. He's trying to do that to us as five-year-olds, as 15-year-olds, as 25-year-olds, all the way up to 70, 80-year-olds. That's right. It's his mission every day to take us out.
It is. I need to ask that question: How did this come right? Because people are maybe even in that spot. We did a broadcast not long ago with a woman who was in a very similar situation as you. alcohol became her night beverage to cope.
Sure. How did you rectify that? How did you come out of that dark place? It was COVID. Yeah, okay.
COVID was so good to me. Ron had gone on a five-day working trip. And had caveatted it with, hey, I'm gonna be going here and here and here, and I'm may not be accessible to you, which triggered the abandonment and the pain. I went on a five-day bender. He was gone for five days.
He comes home. I'm teaching at the time and we are sequestered. Like the kids are saying, Mrs. Deal, will I see you? And I'm like, well, I don't know.
And school shut down. Anytime he traveled, boy, I had somebody for lunch and breakfast. And Nan would take it on herself to just have things in place so I wasn't alone. And COVID stripped all of that away. COVID stripped everything.
The restaurants were closing. Friends were saying, I can't come for the weekend. And he was gone. He came in. And our country, our world was shutting down.
I had no job, I had no anything. He gets up, he comes home, and he. had a look on his face of I mean, I had hit bottom. I had gone on a bender that weekend. Probably 52 calls and so many terrible texts that I sent him unbeknownst to me, not knowing that I had done it.
Um Very angry, bitter. And he comes home and he goes. Who who are you, and what is happening? And I knew in that moment that I was probably losing him. But I had already looked in the mirror and said, I don't even know who you are.
Yeah, you're losing yourself. I had already lost myself. Yeah. And um We get up that Monday and he's like, hey, I got to get on a Zoom and figure this Zoom thing out and this pandemic thing with my team. which kinda was triggering, but I was like, okay.
I had nothing. What are you going to do with kindergartners at that point? I mean, they're just saying, just stay at home. I have nothing. My boys are gone.
Ron's in there, he's gone. It is a pandemic and I am completely isolated. But I go into our guest bedroom and I think, oh, I'll do yoga, that myself. And I lay down on that mat and couldn't get up off from that mat. for about two hours.
It was hypotenuse. I cried for two hours like I used to cry over my son. Yeah. Was it the end of me? Mm-hmm.
And I cried out to the Lord, and I said, I cannot do this anymore. I have nothing. I literally cried, Uncle. And I said if If you would have me. I want to do it your way.
Wow. Yeah. That Peace that surpasses all understanding that day. It was as if he had taken his hands and completely wiped me. off and I got up off that mat and I was like I am going to do it your way.
And I did not stop the medication. Right away, but that night I had no alcohol and I had not one withdrawal. Yeah. You know, Nan, the scripture in Psalms that says he's close to the broken hearted and saves those crushed in spirit. The right question for us is: run there.
Why don't we run there? Because that's where you're going to meet the Lord, even in that pain. I mean, your tears are real. But isn't it amazing? Like Romans 8:28, the good that God brought from your bottoming out.
Yes. I mean, it is a humiliating March 17th. Yeah. I mean, remember it forever. Forever.
Because that was really when it happened. And it was, I really feel as if he was like. I've been waiting for this all your life for you to let go of the reins. Yay, okay, now we can do this. And that moment that Terry said.
Hmm. If you'll allow God to heal all of the brokenness. It'll be the most beautiful thing that will come out of you. I get it now. I get it now, and I want to bring God glory.
Because I know there are other people like oh, you're talking to them right now, and uh people are In that place, hurting in one way or the other. And you know, there's many more things to say here, Ron. I think one of the things to tie a bow around this. A concept of the peace cycle. We talked about the pain cycle.
I think this would be a good place to talk about the peace cycle. The pain cycle? Didn't people need to get the book? Right. The pain cycle for her was in abandonment, run, and escape.
Um the peace cycle for her is no, with God, I can face my pain. I can move toward Ron rather than run away from Ron. I'm working on me, she's working on her. We have a totally different dynamic. Between us, we are far from perfect.
We are still working on us every single day. There's a humility decision to be made. And yet, it just brought us to a totally different place. I will comment. That was day one of her recovery.
She got into a 12-step group, kept going. We work with parents who have lost a child group. Like we are still giving, receiving, exploring, learning. Every day we get triggered, every day we have an opportunity to deal with the log in our own eye and manage us. And Man, the Lord is doing some really amazing things.
I think it's great. Nan, you're my hero. No, seriously, it chokes me up. That vulnerability is good because people, you know, people look at Christian people and go, oh, they're perfect. They're not broken like me.
And we're all broken. Yes. And that's the beauty of it. But not everybody realizes their brokenness.
So thank you. You all. Really, thank you so much for that openheartedness. And I'm just praying that if you're in that spot, you don't hold back. Get in touch with us.
We're here. We've got counselors who can help you. We've got a heap of resources, including Ron and Nan's book, The Mindful Marriage: Create Your Best Relationship Through Understanding and Managing Yourself. There's an idea. How do we get control of these things that shaped us as children?
mostly in the wrong way. And then reshape them for a godly way. And that's the broad concept here: live your life. In a Christ-like way, and great to do that in your marriage.
So, again, thanks for being with us. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Yeah, there are so many ways Focus on the Family is here for you in your marriage. Give us a call, 800, the letter A in the word family, and we can schedule a time for you to speak with one of our caring Christian counselors.
We'd be happy to tell you about our Hope Restored marriage intensives. We also host marriage getaway weekends for you and your spouse if you just want to reconnect and renew your commitment to each other. And of course, we have Ron and Nan's book, and we'd be happy to tell you more about that. We'll send a copy when you make a donation of any amount. It all begins with that call to 800, the letter A in the word family, or click the link in the show notes.
And, John, here's a comment from a woman named Joy who recently attended Hope Restored with her husband. Joy said, Over the years, I have let my heart become hardened into something I didn't recognize or want to be, but this intensive helped me show my heart and my feelings to my Spouse and give our 30-year marriage a chance. I am leaving here with renewed hope for our marriage, and I believe the Lord worked miracles in our hearts and lives. I love hearing that. That's an amazing transformation.
It is, and that's what we're looking for. We hear miracle stories like that literally every week, and that's how your generosity is impacting couples and transforming families. Think of keeping a family together, what that does for them as a couple, but what does that do for their children? And I want to invite you to do ministry through Focus on the Family today. Give generously, it's a lifetime investment into God's kingdom.
Yeah, and our number again, 800, the letter A and the word family, or you can donate when you click the link in the show notes. And coming up tomorrow, Rhonda Stopi has some powerful lessons about motherhood from Moms in the Bible. That's such an important season in our children's lives to pour into them. And I can only imagine Jacobed nursing that baby, singing songs to him. Of deliverance, songs of Yahweh, and imprinting on him a love for her God, even in the short seasons she had him.
Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Is your marriage struggling? Communication breaking down? Trust fading?
Conflict that never seems to resolve? Well, there's still hope. Hope Restored Marriage Intensives by Focus on the Family helps couples step away from daily life and focus fully on rebuilding their relationship. And right now, through the Marriage Investment Initiative, Hope Restored is investing $1,000 toward every marriage intensive. Visit hoperestored.com slash marriage dash investment.
Yeah.
