Is “Anti-Pro-Life” the New “Pro-Choice”?

Today on Sekulow, is anti-pro-life the new pro-choice? We'll talk about how the ACLJ is fighting back today.

We're also going to be joined by former Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo. Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Sekulow. We want to hear from you.

Share and post your comments. Or call 1-800-684-3110. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow.

Hey, welcome to Sekulow. We are going to take your call today at 1-800-684-3110, specifically on life. We have got an interactive map up at ACLJ.org. It's ACLJ.org forward slash abortion if you want to go directly to it.

But it's right on the home page as well. And if you're watching the broadcast, you can see what it looks like. Every state, even though shaded in gray, which usually means that it's a legislative issue, what you have to do next, what action is being taken in your state. We have votes later this week in Indiana. A vote yesterday on a subcommittee and a subcommittee vote to get a piece of legislation moving there. There's been a lot of protests there, but pro-life legislation moving there in Kansas as well. We'll talk about with Secretary Pompeo. ACLJ action is engaged there.

I don't know if we can throw that up on the screen just quickly for people. We're running an ad campaign through ACLJ Action in Kansas. One of those ads has Secretary Pompeo in it. Of course, he's a former congressman from Kansas. And this one, again, about what this really does. What the Kansas legislation is interested in, the vote, is to override an old state court decision. All it really does is allow the legislature to start legislating on restrictions on abortion. The interesting aspect of this is the decision in Dobbs was great because it took away the club of this made up constitutional right to abortion.

So it opened up then the ability to return it to the states, which is what the law required. So when Roe was overturned, we always said it returns it to the states. Now we have real state challenges.

And the state challenges are different in each state. That's right, because you will see things on ballot initiatives. You will see abortion come up this fall. You see legislative bills being voted on right now about abortion.

And then you also see court cases. And like you said multiple times in your right, it might be a very conservative state, but the court system might be very liberal. Yeah, and so we've deployed Frank Mannion and Ed White, two of our senior lawyers, to New York.

In fact, Frank's going to give us an update later in the broadcast because we're dealing with this on the state-by-state level. And you say, why New York? Well, true, New York is going to be a state that is very pro-abortion, no question about it.

But you know what? We've got to defend the pro-life pregnancy centers. They're the front lines in the fight for life in states like New York and California. But that interactive map shows everything going on in your state. But if you have questions about what's happening in your state right now, give us a call because there's a flurry of activity in a lot of states across the country. Votes coming up, whether it's your legislature voting this week, whether it's you that need to get out to vote maybe as early as next week, like in a state like Kansas.

What can you do? We can answer those questions for you. While it's great to still celebrate, and I think we all deserve to celebrate the overturning of Roe versus Wade, you need to now know what's happening next. And the next battle is really at the state level.

That's the next battle. Some will be at the local level, and there's kind of two competing battles. One is legislating restrictions. The other is, in more blue states, is going after the pro-life pregnancy centers, trying to eliminate pro-life pregnancy centers. We saw the Michigan governor again, as we said yesterday on the broadcast, veto funding that was passed by the state legislature, the representatives of the people, vetoed funding to adoption agencies in Michigan because they want to create this crisis that wouldn't exist. There is no problem with too many babies in America.

There's plenty of organizations in place, but they want those organizations shut down to create a crisis. This is a great time for you to support the work of the ACLJ. Folks, we're in a matching challenge campaign.

Last couple of days of the month, this is when it counts. And as I said, we've got lawyers deployed right now in New York defending life. We've got an interactive map with all 50 states. We're working on it. CC is working on pro-life issues and a number of our lawyers around the country. This is the critical four days in our matching challenge campaign. I'm going to encourage you to go to ACLJ.org and donate any amount you can at ACLJ, if you're able, at ACLJ.org, and we're going to get that matched.

So I want to encourage you right now, if you haven't donated, please consider it today. ACLJ.org, that's ACLJ.org. We're going to be back with more in just a minute.

Again, if you want more information, another great place to go is that website at ACLJ.org. Talk to you in a moment. Alright, welcome back to Secula. We are going to take your phone calls too. Give us a call at 1-800-684-3110. If you know what initiatives are going on in your state and you want to be able to broadcast it to people, it's a great time to do it.

Give us a call at 1-800-684-3110. If you are wondering what you need to be working on in your state, give us a call at 1-800-684-3110. Because, again, in all 50 states there's a flurry of activity when it comes to abortion.

There are cases going on. There are votes that you can vote in. There are ballot initiatives coming up in November. There's some as early as next week. There's legislative votes happening as we speak. So this is all ongoing right now.

We can update you. We've got our interactive map up at ACLJ.org. If you go to ACLJ.org forward slash abortion, you can actually go directly to the map. But I also encourage you to give us a call today so that we can answer any questions.

And not just answer it for you, but for everybody listening to the broadcast as well. I think that for those of you who have been fighting in that pro-life realm for so many, whether it's decades for you, years for you to the movement, I think you're interested in not just your state but also what is going on around the country because ultimately it's about protecting human life. So, again, 1-800-684-3110. If you've got questions about what's happening in your state or if you want to tell people about what's happening in your state, what initiatives that you're working on, maybe you're working on a ballot initiative that hasn't gotten the signatures yet, but you're working on it. I talked to someone last night who's doing that in Florida. So, again, 1-800-684-3110.

You know what's interesting? Jonathan Turley, who is a law professor at George Washington University, has an article that he's written that's published on The Hill. And the title says, it's not enough to be pro-choice now. You must be anti-pro-life.

And here's what he writes. With the Supreme Court's overturn of Roe vs. Wade, it's no longer enough to be pro-choice. Indeed, the term pro-choice has been declared harmful by the now ironically named Pro-Choice Caucus. Today, it seems you must be anti-pro-life to be truly pro-choice. And across the country, pro-life viewpoints are being declared virtual hate speech. And this is the free speech aspect of this that's now at issue, Cece, and that is a pro-life perspective is now deemed to be something, and Justice Alito pointed this out, that it even distorted, the abortion cases distorted the free speech jurisprudence of the court by allowing for a viewpoint discriminatory animus against pro-life people.

That's not the case anymore. Yeah, abortion distortion continues, and we're seeing it every single day. Now, like you said, it's not enough to be pro-choice. You have to be anti-pro-life. And if you hold any opinion against abortion, you are absolutely canceled. We've seen people at a Michigan, the white coat service with the doctors, half of the students got up and left because the speaker who was a doctor, and speaking about medical issues, not about abortion at all, but just because that speaker happened to be pro-life, half of those students got up and walked out because you cannot hold an opinion that is different from pro-abortion. Do you want to have, I mean, are doctors now that politically sensitive that they can't even allow a speaker who happens to be pro-life, who's not discussing pro-life, be a speaker at their white coat ceremony? Yeah, there's a graduation speaker, basically, the ceremonial speaker, who is highly respected as not just a doctor, but as an academic in the field, so that's why she was chosen. Used to be an atheist who was pro-abortion, had her own change of heart, is, I think, now religious, and came to faith, came to a pro-life viewpoint.

But that's just, again, you could learn that matter if you wanted to find that researcher, but that was not her speech. And yet, still, so now, like the article was talking about, now if you're just, if you're someone who happens to be pro-life, and you're coming in, let's say you're coming in to talk about Chinese economic policy, but also you're pro-life, on a college campus, I think they're going to walk out on you. Not just for, not because you're talking about Chinese economic policy, but because you're talking, because you happen to be someone who has a pro-life position that was somehow made public. We've had university professors, doctors at medical schools, that have a pro-life position, and have been denied tenure, have been censured, have been harassed by students. Now, that, in a free society, should not be tolerable. Let's be fair. That's ridiculous. But yet, that kind of hostility and discrimination seemed to be, well, that was okay, because it was pro-life, so we can discriminate, basically.

That's right. It's an extreme position, and what's so funny is, the people that have this position, they try to pretend like they're tolerant, and, oh, we want to give everybody, you know, a right to speak, and have their own opinion. Well, yes, except if that opinion is a pro-life opinion. You cannot have an opinion that wants to protect the life of an unborn baby. They are going to cancel you. They are going to call it hate speech. You cannot have an opinion that contradicts their opinion that abortion is the only option.

You know, I want to read this. This is a YouTube comment came in. It said, do you think the left is using these aggressive tactics against pro-life policies to distract from the disasters they are creating around the country?

Yes. I'd say it's more, it's not a distraction for you, because you're going to pay attention, right? You feel like they're attacking you. It is trying to continue to encourage their base to somehow get out the vote in November, in the midterm elections, because if you take an issue like this out, remember, that's only going to be like the liberal base of the party. That's what they're worried about, is that they won't even show up, and if they don't show up, you start losing races that you should win. And so they are at the bare minimum trying to find something, again, not to get, it's not really about you not voting. You're going to vote because they're coming after you. But it's about trying to figure out how they're going to get their own people to vote, because most of them are not very happy about it. Notice this, last week in Washington, D.C., they still have all the barricades up. It looks like a war zone, but no people, so there's no war going on around the Supreme Court, including the street our office is on, which is now shut down to traffic, and there's no protest. Then a couple days later, AOC and the others, we covered on there, they had a fake protest, they had a fake arrest, fake handcuffing and all of that, and again, folks, just to make clear, those are just planned by politicians. So there has not been this massive, this is not like Black Lives Matter, this is not like Antifa, they have not had mass protest continuing across the country. Every once in a while, they'll show up like in Indiana when there's a vote, and that makes sense, but then they go away.

It's a very small base. Because the dynamics and the demographics on the life issue have changed so drastically, and I think a lot of it's the technology. When you see the unborn child in utero, in the imaging that they have now, it's breathtaking, and that's why they don't say it's not a baby anymore. That argument faded away, so where I'm encouraged is the pro-life movement and pro-life perspective, I would say more important than even the pro-life movement, the pro-life perspective is really gaining strength. I think the question for all of us is, at the ACLJ, is we've got to make sure that the pro-life speech is available to be made, and we've been fighting that battle for 40 years. And then you've got to look at the individual states, as Cece and Jordan were saying, where you've got these issues that are definitely percolating, and sometimes it can be in a conservative state with a rather hostile state supreme court. And you ask, how can that even be?

Well, the truth is it can be because of the way the judges are appointed to the court in those states. Right, absolutely. And so, like we said even before we knew the Dobbs decision, if Dobbs does overrule Roe v. Wade, our work is really just beginning.

And I think you can hear that from even this broadcast. We are at every level. We are meeting with crisis pregnancy centers. We are protecting them from the vandalism and the attacks that they've gotten. We're protecting them from state laws that are coming down.

We're protecting them from even the Biden executive order maybe attacking them. And then we have to be on top of the ballot initiatives to let people know about that. We also have to be on top of the legislation as these bills are being introduced, making sure that we get in and, you know, we object to the bills and help even and structure some of the language. So we are incredibly busy right now fighting for life. So here's what we're doing.

And Cece just mentioned this and Jordan was talking about this. We've deployed lawyers on California issues. Even where you've got a hostile state, we've deployed lawyers to Maryland to testify on congressional hearings. We've got two lawyers in New York right now.

Jordan is working with a team on Kansas. We'll talk about that in the coming up segments. Your support for the ACLJ allows all this. It allows us to broadcast.

It allows us to deploy lawyers around the country, frankly, around the globe. So I want to ask you to do something. We are in the last five days of our matching challenge campaign. Your support for the ACLJ is really critical. So I want to encourage you, if you've already donated, first I want to say thank you because I know these are not easy times. If you're able to donate, and Jordan said that early on and we mean that, if you're able to donate, this would be a great time to do it. Because at ACLJ.org, any amount you donate to us, we're getting a matching gift for. And Jordan's going to explain to you what that means, but it's really important. ACLJ.org for that. Folks, again, ACLJ.org, it's a matching challenge and this is a straight up matching challenge.

It's not like some of these things you see in the wild or these six times, seven times you might get in the political world. It's a straight up matching challenge. It doubles the impact of your donation. You donate $20, that's what you're charged.

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For those of you who are financially able to, this is the time for you to step up. ACLJ.org. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Sekulow and the ACLJ has taken action on this, whether it is, again, a vote's coming up in Kansas next week or legal work. I want to focus on that legal work in this segment of the broadcast. We're bringing in Frank Manning, the senior counsel with the ACLJ because, Frank, you were in New York, Pennsylvania as well working with pro-life pregnancy centers. We may end up representing those pro-life pregnancy centers.

We're in that process now. You're in the meetings with them because they are coming under attack. Yeah. I mean, Jordan, it's unbelievable some of the stuff we're hearing. I mean, I guess we've always been sort of vaguely familiar with it, but it's amazing when you're out here literally on the ground.

You feel like you're in the trenches. Most of these places are shoestring operations and they're underground, literally. So anyway, we're hearing things like the vandalism. One particular individual told us about the fact that her personal and her PRC, pregnancy resource center, account was hacked shortly after the leak of the Dobbs decision. They've got Chase Bank investigating that, the local police investigating that.

We've heard about people showing up at the pregnancy resource centers with gasoline in bags that suddenly left after a few questions were asked. They're all rather scared of this New York investigation for good reason, which basically gives the state the power to go in and ask anything they want about these pregnancy resources. Let's talk about this New York law that we've been very concerned about, and that's one of the reasons you and Ed are there. Let's talk about what that New York law gives these investigative agencies. Yeah, I mean, New York decided that of all the other things it could be spending its time on, it needs to go investigate pregnancy resource centers, and the fear is basically unlimited subpoena power is given to the Department of Health and other state agencies to go in with subpoenas and ask these people, or require these people, to come forward with every piece of information these investigators can cook up. We're talking about shoestring operations, Jay, mostly staffed by volunteers, frequently affiliated with churches or other charitable organizations, and they're going to have to take their time responding to, frankly, just simply burdensome for the sake of being burdensome subpoenas, whose really goal we believe, because of the politicians who are pushing these things, is to shut these places down. I don't understand, Jay, as I'm sitting here talking to these people this week, what the focus is, why the focus is on them.

All they want to do is help women and girls who want to have their babies have their babies, and usually that means providing material assistance, connecting them with the proper social agencies or government programs that could help them, getting them medical insurance in some cases. The stories we're hearing, they're inspiring, and yet at the same time it's infuriating to witness what's going on. That's why I'm glad we're here and we're doing what we're doing. Well, we've deployed lawyers on the ground there.

I mean, folks, this is because of your support of the ACLJ, but listen, this fight with New York is not our first rodeo with New York. We've been fighting New York for a long time, but they are aggressively, CC, coming after these crisis pregnancy centers, aggressively. Exactly, and as Frank was saying that, I literally, in my mind, am seen sitting with another crisis pregnancy center several years ago, the same kind of thing with the subpoena, and having to go through just documents, voluminous documents that they're requesting, and really all it is is to harass and try to shut them down.

There's no need for these documentations, and again, the reason that they're always at the center of the attack is because they are on the front lines. They are the ones that are providing true options for pregnant mothers and giving them the help and assistance that they really need when you're in a pregnancy. Yeah, I think also what we're seeing too is yesterday we were talking about New York's mayor, the city of New York, how they're dealing with this migrant crisis, and really one of the agencies that's responsible for the homeless crisis there said, the migrant issue is a very small part of the homelessness issue and the burden on our resources. We have too many homeless New Yorkers that are here that we're not taking care of. The crime is out of control, and yet, as Frank said, this is where they focus their state resources, not on figuring out how to take their major cities.

Listen, New York as well has got a lot of people hurting economically throughout their state with inflation like this, but they're not focused on that, the leaders. No, they're going to spend their money on trying to put crisis pregnancy centers out of business. Now, Frank, we've already got, I understand, a group of clients being lined up right now, and we may have some serious legal challenges that we're going to bring. Yeah, that group is about to double in the next couple days, Jay, I can assure you of that.

Yeah, how about this? Several people have told us that surely after the Dobbs opinion was leaked, they were visited by the Intelligence Department of the New York Police Department because the police were basically warning them. There's a list there, and the cops, of course, don't reveal their sources, and crisis pregnancy centers are on that list, and we're letting all of you know.

Be careful, just take precautions, and let us know if you see anything suspicious. It's amazing that these people are the target of the other side, just amazing to me. All right, Frank, we appreciate the update. Frank is in New York with Ed White, two of our senior lawyers working on this, and look, folks, I mean, there's a target list that the New York authorities have on crisis pregnancy centers. Think about that for a moment, but like you said, Cece, this is not the first time this has happened.

No, it's not, and sadly, it won't be the last time. I think every day I come to work and there's another attack on a crisis pregnancy center, again, whether it's through the state, whether it's through a court proceeding, whether it's through groups like Jane's Revenge actually attacking them, they are just constantly, and of course Planned Parenthood never stops attacking them, they're constantly under attack, so they constantly need our support and representation, and we have provided that for decades, and we will continue to do so. And Frank just said, we've got a whole group of clients now, he says, about to double just in New York on this issue. Yeah, I mean, these are, again, and these are very important places because this is the direct answer to this false talking point that you'll hear from the left and the pro-abortion industry and their spokespeople and their activists is that we're going to have too many children in the United States. I mean, Kamala Harris said that, she said, you know, people are getting pregnant right now as we speak, and there's going to be babies born, and there's no one there to help. Except for there is a huge network, like Frank said, doubling the amount of these pro-life, it's not like one in a state or hundreds, I mean, yeah, all over and every place you go, in cities you go, and sometimes across from the abortion clinic. Yes, and again, some are more well-funded than others, but they're all there to do the same job, which is, this provides another option for women. If they are considering abortion, but they're just not sure, and maybe they haven't gotten an ultrasound, they can do it for free at one of these facilities, and they're worried about, well, even if I do want to keep this child, do I have the resources? And then they say, well, yeah, we can connect you with, you can get this, you can get this, they help them with all those government services that the government provides. Or adoption, they won't provide, then they'll start that process as well. So, and then they'll come in to help, they do parenting classes, they do all this work, and it's already there. They have been there already, even under Roe, because they wanted to be the alternative. Now, without Roe, they know that their work is going to increase, but what does the left want to do? Not allow them to operate, shut them down, because they want the crisis in the country.

They want it to feel like a crisis of too many children, whatever that means. That's why we want to encourage you, in our last five days here of our Matching Challenge campaign, to go to ACLJ.org right now as we get ready to go to a break. And any amount you donate will go and be doubled. In other words, if you donate $50, we get $100.

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We'll be back with the next half hour of the broadcast in just a moment. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's Matching Challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20. A $50 gift becomes $100. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family.

Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Keep you informed and engaged. Now more than ever, this is Sekulow. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow.

Welcome back to Sekulow. I'm getting into some of the international issues that we're facing, but they're happening right here at home. These issues with China, as you've noticed throughout our broadcast this week, we've been focusing on the life issues and other issues in the first half hour. Second half issue, bringing it back because there's so much going on when it happens to go with China, whether it's the Pelosi trip, we'll talk about that. Secretary Pompeo, our senior counsel for global affairs, he's joining us in the next segment of the broadcast. We're going to talk a little bit of life, but mostly on China as well because tomorrow, President Biden is going to be talking to President Xi of China.

Again, that's something he announced about 10 days ago, so it's finally going to happen. Is it Taiwan? Is it aggression there? Is it the Pelosi visit? Again, some of these issues that have arisen with Huawei, with the purchasing of land in the United States, and I just want to make this clear. Chinese, and I know this directly, I'm not going to say from who, the Chinese companies that are doing this think that this is just going to get attention because we're in an election year, and that they'll be able to just continue buying up land, taking our resources. Literally, they want to have a hold on our food supply, our tech, so our ability to put up the F-35 in the air, use your phone, drive your car, use a tank, we already talked about that with Secretary Pompeo, the tech side, and of course they want to spy, so they've got towers still up today. This is what it's so upsetting, towers where Huawei has equipment on them today that has not been removed, even though the federal government has said remove it, told the tech, because they're $3 billion short. This is the U.S. government we're talking about. They can go find the $3 billion to go get those off those cell towers because they know that they are being used to intercept communications of the U.S. Strategic Command, which oversees our nuclear weapon arsenal. So we're going to get into this, we're working on this, by the way, on the congressional level.

We're working on it with our Senior Counsel for Global Affairs, Mike Pompeo, who happens to be the former Secretary of State for the United States, but also happens to be the former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, and then Rick Grenell, who was the Ambassador to Germany, but also was the Director of National Intelligence. So we've got the team together to do that. I want to turn back. So that's what's coming up.

I want to go back for a moment. We heard from Frank Manion. So we've got Frank and Ed deployed in New York right now because there's hundreds of pro-life centers in New York State, and some of them are very sophisticated folks. They're doing amazing work.

Frank said some of them are shoestring budgets or nonprofits, but some of them are funded really significantly in a positive way so that they can do unbelievable work for these women in need. So they are trying to regulate out all of these crisis pregnancy centers and understand something. In states like California and New York and Massachusetts – listen, do we have that statement from Elizabeth Warren? I mean, this tells you how ridiculous what they're trying to do is.

Take a listen. In Massachusetts right now, those crisis pregnancy centers that are there to fool people who are looking for pregnancy termination help outnumber true abortion clinics by three to one. We need to shut them down here in Massachusetts, and we need to shut them down all around the country. We need to shut them down in Massachusetts. We need to shut them down all around the country. So this is – listen, we deployed a special unit within the ACLJ to defend crisis pregnancy centers from coast to coast. They do amazing work.

Jordan and I have spoken at those events for crisis pregnancy centers, women resource centers, and it's just amazing what they can do and what they are doing. But, folks, we have to be able to defend them, which requires you standing with us so we can stand with them. Yeah, so it doesn't cost anything. I think that's where Frank's getting at is let them use their resources on the work that they're doing. And then if you support the work of the ACLJ, they don't have to go out and hire a law firm. They have the great work of our attorneys at the ACLJ to represent them at no cost. So that's why it's important to support their work but also to support our work because they're going to come under attack, and you don't want them having to spend thousands of thousands of dollars, a hundred thousand dollars within a law firm to defend them. We can go in and defend as many as they need as needed at no cost to any of those organizations. So support the work of the ACLJ at ACLJ.org. Be part of our matching challenge. It runs until the end of the month. You've still got time to be part of it.

ACLJ.org. Donate today. We'll be back with Secretary Pompeo.

All right. Welcome back to Sekulow. We are joined now by our Senior Counsel for Global Affairs, former Secretary of State and CIA Director, and Congressman from Kansas as well. I want to bring that up, Mike Pompeo. Secretary Pompeo, I know we're going to get to China in a minute, but I did want to remind people, especially because we've got listeners all over the country. In Kansas, there's an important vote next week, next Tuesday, August 2nd, and I'll tell you, the pro-abortion industry and their allies are dumping money into Kansas.

But ACLJ action, and because we partnered with you on ads that we're running, and we can put those up on the screen now for people. It is called, Secretary Pompeo, the Value Them Both Amendment, and it's important that we're letting people know to vote yes on that amendment. But you just wrote an op-ed, too, in the newspaper there in Kansas. Tell people about this vote and what you're hearing from on the ground.

Well, this is really important. It's five days from now. It's the election Tuesday of next week, August 2nd. I hope every Kansan will get out and vote for this amendment, vote yes on the Value Them Both Amendment. There's been so much money.

Your point's right. It's so good that ACLJ has been in there working to protect the unborn and to protect these mothers as well. So much money dumped into the state with misinformation. All this amendment does is it says the Kansas courts that are liberal and left have prevented the people from voting on the restrictions, the protection of the unborn that they have wanted for a lawfully long time. And it just says people can vote. We can open up democracy to make sure that we don't have abortion on demand in the state of Kansas. That's what the people of Kansas want. It's that simple. That's what the amendment does. A lot of folks are saying, oh, this is going to ban this.

And it does none of those things. It simply says we value both lives. And we want the people of Kansas consistent with what the Supreme Court ruled a couple of weeks back now. We want the people of Kansas to have the opportunity to voice their views on protecting the unborn. It's that simple. It's that decent.

It's that basic. I hope everyone will vote yes. It is one of the first opportunities in the country where people, not just legislatures, but people themselves are going to determine if their legislature has the ability to start legislating. Now that Roe has been overturned, and as you said, Roe is no longer hanging over these state legislatures. So I just wanted to bring that up because in Kansas you may be seeing those ads on social media. We can put it back on the screen one more time.

One with Secretary Pompeo, one with features a child. So much bad information out there about this. So encourage your friends if you're in Kansas to vote yes.

I'll tell you something. I'm very glad everybody is working on this issue. I want to turn our attention, Mike, if I can, to China because this is galvanating all the news networks right now. I mean, not just conservative media. This is impacting everywhere. So China's military is now threatening a response if Speaker Pelosi goes through with her visit to Taiwan. Now the administration is saying that our military is saying if she goes there it could escalate things. What do you make of the saber rattling of China, especially you've got conservative members of the House and Senate saying they'd go with her too now. It's becoming a big issue for the United States, this visit to Taiwan. What's your sense of China's actual actions here? So I think the first thing we should do is the basic principle, which is that the Chinese Communist Party ought not to dictate American policy with respect to any nation. We shouldn't allow some second-tier diplomat to issue a statement or some whisper campaign to cause the United States to bend a knee to the Chinese Communist Party.

It's what we've done for a long time, Jay, right? They tell an airline you can't put Taiwan on your airline route. They tell a Hollywood producer you can't write about China in a certain way. We won't show your movies.

They tell an NBA player or someone in the crowd you can't hold up a sign to have the Speaker of the House, the third-ranking federal official, the Chinese Communist Party can say, you know what? We don't think you should go to this independent nation, Taiwan, and then for us to say, you know what? We're afraid of you. We're fearful of you and not allow her to go because we don't think our military is capable of keeping the security blanket for the United States of America. Imagine what Vladimir Putin will do. Imagine what Chairman Kim will do.

Imagine what the Ayatollah will do. If it just takes a press release to frighten the United States of America, this puts us in an incredibly difficult place. Secretary Pompeo, she needs to go.

The general consensus is you announce this, we are the United States of America. She's the third-ranking executive official in line to the presidency. And if she wants to go to an ally country, another place is not going to tell our politicians what to do. But I am nervous now because she's getting this pressure.

There are some Democrats standing with her, a lot of Republicans standing with her, which is unique. But she's getting a lot of pressure from the White House and from Kirby and others, National Security Council, that this is too dangerous and not worth it. I think it's worth it, and I think, Secretary Pompeo, it's a statement that needs to be made. I think it's absolutely worth it.

I tweeted with a little bit tongue-in-cheek that I'd go with her last weekend, but I would. This is not partisan. This is about protecting the United States of America and not being bullied by the Chinese Communist Party.

I understand sensitivity. We face this all the time in the Trump administration, too, where we would make decisions that protected the American interest without unduly provoking some adversary. We were nuanced about how we did it. But once we made a decision, once we announced we were going to sail a vessel through the Strait of Taiwan or we were going to station a soldier in a particular place, if the adversary announced that they were going to do something, we said we were going to do it, we should do it. I hope Speaker Pelosi will do the same thing. She said she was going to travel, she ought to travel, and the United States should support that visit. I'm going to play what Admiral Kirby, the spokesperson, has said on this because it kind of tells you where the administration is coming from.

Take a listen. If she were to not go at this point, would that send a message of weakness to China? Again, I'm not going to get ahead of the Speaker's travel, John. As far as I know, she's not made any decision and certainly hasn't announced anything. Again, our job is just to make sure she has the context and information available so she can make the best decisions wherever she goes. But Mike, if she decides now after all of this to not go, isn't that exactly what Berman asked? Doesn't that send a message of weakness to China about the United States?

Of course it does, Jay. Just imagine a couple of scenarios. Imagine a month from now, China threatens Australia by saying that they won't allow tourists to go travel through the country. And we call the Australians and say, don't bend a knee. Don't listen to them.

You should still do what you're going to do. You should still put submarines in the water, whatever it may be. The Australians are going to say, you wouldn't even send your darn speakers to Taiwan. Our friends will see this in the same way our adversaries will see weakness. Our friends will see the absence of resolve. So the Australians, the South Koreans, the Japanese, all of our friends and allies in the region will say, if the United States won't do the simple thing of allowing the Speaker of the House to travel to visit Taiwan, why should we take any risk? We're going to cuddle up with China. We'll make the best of it, but we can't count on the United States to be our friend and partner in this difficult part of the world. You know, this to me, because we've got President Biden, he's going to be on the phone with President Xi tomorrow. I mean, there's a lot of issues they could discuss ultimately, but if you were advising President Biden right now of what issues to focus on, what would those be? I mean, we've heard so many going on domestically, the land purchases, Huawei's on the cell towers. You know, the list goes on and on. What would your message be?

It'd be real simple. The economic warfare you've been conducting against the United States for the last two decades is over. We are no longer going to bend a knee. We're no longer going to turn the other cheek. We're no longer going to permit you to steal American jobs by the millions and American technology by the billions. We're going to defend the things that matter most to America.

And here are the policies we're going to execute to deliver on behalf of the American people. He shouldn't be belligerent. He doesn't need to be hostile. He simply needs to be clear and transparent and resolve. Xi understands that. Xi Jinping understands that. The Chinese Communist Party understands power. What they don't understand is an America that has an absence of resolve. They will drive a truck through that weakness, Jordan, and that is very risky for the United States over the next weeks and months and years.

One last thing, Mr. Secretary, and that's this. We're at a pivotal point. We've talked about the infiltration into the academy, into businesses, into the Federal Reserve System. I think it's just worth reiterating what you've said many times about the threat from China.

How serious of a threat can it be? The scale of the threat from the Chinese Communist Party rivals the threat that America faced from the Soviet Union. It is even more difficult because of the economic interdependence between the United States, between the West and the Chinese Communist Party. Xi Jinping is intent on making sure our kids and grandkids live in an America that looks more like China than it does our republic.

We have every responsibility to push back against that and make sure that the world looks more like America and that America still looks like America another 250 years from now. Exactly right. Thank you. We appreciate it so much. Senior Counsel for Global Affairs, Mike Pompeo.

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Be right back. There's a continued shakeup in our nation's media, and I think that's a good thing. I think that the fact that we've got broadcasts like ours, there's a lot of different ways to do it. You can listen on your radio. You can listen on satellite. You can watch the broadcast on four or five different platforms live.

Or you can go back later in the day and then share it with your friends. We clip it out so that if there's certain parts of the broadcast that you were interested in sharing with your friends and family, every day you can go back through our social media, find those clips, and get it out. One thing we are starting to see, even in the world of mainstream and traditional news media, like cable news media, is a bit of a shakeup going on right now. One is there's a shakeup at CNN. The huge questions about what exactly that network is going to look like, that they shut down their streaming. Are they going to still move to the left where they're basically MSNBC? Or are they going to try and move to the center?

That's going to depend on who they choose. But there's other networks challenging them. There are other networks challenging directly the kind of control that the top three have had. We've seen that now with Newsmax, OAN.

We've seen some other options come up. But then, kind of out of nowhere in the last year, you've seen NewsNation rise, which is a station that is currently carrying shows like Dan Abrams and his news, and they've kind of positioned themselves as being a more balanced, even-handed approach. Now, last night there was major news as Chris Cuomo, who came off of his run at CNN, number one at CNN, comes to NewsNation and likely in the fall will be going kind of back-to-back with Dan Abrams. And it was pretty interesting. The hour-long interview they spent, the announcement portion of it really did kind of present a new way to look at cable news. Now, obviously the proof will be in the pudding if they actually adhere to this, but it was a very interesting conversation. We have a little clip from it from Chris Cuomo, and then we'll discuss a little bit more about what that means for the future of mainstream news.

I had decided that I can't go back to what people see as the big game. I don't think I can make a difference there. I think we need insurgent media. Insurgent media, a very interesting way to say it, and also positioning themselves as a place that is respectful to both sides, even where they disagree. And what I did really like about it is both of them had a really good discussion about how historically they're not going to come out and say, we're completely unbiased. We're going to come out and tell you our opinion, but that doesn't mean our opinion has to be with disrespect. Our opinion has to be the authority above all.

And though, again, the proof will be in the pudding of if they actually can live up to this, but that will be an interesting shift to see, and I think you're going to see more people trying this sort of format. Of course, I've been on Chris Cuomo's program when he was on CNN a lot. In fact, to be quite blunt, I felt like Chris always treated me with the most respect and fairness. We agreed on things. We disagreed on CNN. On CNN from the other side, essentially. And I never felt like I was the other side when I was on with Chris. I always felt like I was a different perspective, maybe, but not the other side.

And we were friends. I congratulate him on this. I think it's a great move, and I think it's a good opportunity. I like the word insurgent media. Yeah, I think we're going to see a lot more of that. Look, we're working on that every day here to come up with new content that you guys can all take in, and there will be new stuff that will be announced in the coming weeks that I hope you all like. We are not a news nation, but we have other stuff happening.

But I like this move. You have someone like Dan Abrams, who is maybe more of a moderate than you have this, and hopefully they'll find someone maybe that is a bit more traditional conservative or conservative to kind of balance out this full lineup. But I do think it's interesting. You said insurgent media. That is important. I think it's very important to see, especially when you have things like CNN, which feel like they're in chaos, and MSNBC in chaos. And look, a lot of personalities of Fox News as well, a lot of personalities and all sorts of it, that maybe something like this is what needs to happen next.

Yeah, I think people had to write in, because Ben wrote into our comments, he wrote in, I just don't know who to trust anymore other than you guys when it comes to media. And I think that's true even because I try to say this. I'm not going to name any shows or even the networks, but there are some that kind of make you feel like you're always winning. There's others that make us feel like we're always losing. Then there's our broadcast where we tell you the truth. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose.

Sometimes we win big, sometimes we lose. And we all know that you're old enough and you're intelligent enough to understand that. And some is kind of like almost pure entertainment now. The news is kind of a joke that you rip off of.

And I don't think any of that's bad. But I do think there's space in our country of our size to have more than three major networks. Yeah, there's room to ask the questions and have these discussions on both sides and hear what at least people have to say and realize that that is, and look, it may not be you listening, that is a large majority of the country. That's why elections shift, things happen and move.

If they didn't, you wouldn't have potential landslides on both sides that happened two years apart. Because there are a lot of people who sit there, they ingest what's happening around them, they take in what's happening around them, and they move forward. They're not necessarily only dealing in their own partisan politics.

They're dealing with how it affects them. And I think if we can have those discussions, it's going to be interesting. Like I said, we're working on that every day at the ACLJ. New media ideas also, we need to say, but without giving any details. Yeah, we got a lot of new stuff coming up. So make sure you keep following us as there'll be some announcements in the next week. And then in the next month, we'll probably have something brand new for you to see. And I look forward to announcing that soon. I want to say something about this insurgent media idea, though, because I think- We got a question that came in on Facebook from Linda.

What does that mean? Yeah, so this is not the traditional approach that has been, as you said, you got the conservative channel, you got the liberal channel, then you got the CNN who can't figure out what they are. They're a liberal channel, but yeah.

So this is more, this is a different approach. But I need to say, listen, I'm a huge fan, as you know, of Sean Hannity. He's been on our broadcast. We've hosted his broadcast.

I think he does a great job. I'm friends with Chris Cuomo, too. I'm friends with Sean, of course.

I'm friends with Chris Cuomo. I always felt like when I went on with him, he treated me fairly and with respect. And even defended me when other hosts were on that network were really nasty.

The ones that deal in anger and the ones that deal in falsity, he would come out. So I do appreciate him. I appreciate Dan Abrams. I appreciate Dan Abrams' support of some of the police work he's doing. Obviously, he had Live PD, which got taken away from.

Now they have On Patrol Live, which was the number one show on cable in the demo this past weekend. So you see some interesting things happen. And that does show there's a lot of people out there that are sort of in this middle. They're not necessarily middle, but they are at least not 100 percent against listening to the other side's conversation. I do really like the concept that they've presented here, which is treat people with respect. Come out here and let's have some real discussions and talk things out. Don't just be an echo chamber. I think that's cool.

Again, we'll have to see if they actually can do it. Because then on the other side, you have CNBC, who now is Shepard Smith, saying you're never going to hear my opinion. And it makes me want to giggle because it's like, Shepard Smith, we know your opinion. You made a big push about leaving Fox.

You made a big statement. Maybe that's true for Chris Cuomo is we know his opinion. He actually said he and Dan Abrams both went out there and said, you know our opinions. We're going to tell you our opinions. But that doesn't mean we have to belittle you. That doesn't mean we have to disagree with you or always disagree with you, always agree with you. You're going to hear our opinions.

I think the idea of an unbiased media is a thing of the past. That's gone. But now we have at least an opportunity to have a conversation. And I do like that.

Like you said, the proof will be if they do have the folks on from the right and if they're able to just actually keep it at more of a not screaming match. Doesn't mean that tough question. Don't treat people like buffoons. You can be an equal intelligence.

My worthy opponent. Yeah. Equal intelligence with different view.

Right. And again, more of that I think would be great. It's very difficult to do that in the media.

I will tell you, someone does it every single day. If I called up and said, hey, you know, we actually like what Pelosi stances. There's no way, you know, like even if we said it would be all positive. So some of that I think is necessary, especially on issues like when we talk about COVID. There's issues like that where we need some kind of people to be able to just talk it out and have both sides talk through the pros and cons of this and that. Instead of just saying, well, I know what this network's going to say. I know what this network's going to say. I know what they're going to say. Support our work, too, because you're supporting our ability to get the message out. A C L J dot org.