Breaking: US Levels New Sanctions Against Chinese Officials

Today on Sekulow, the U.S. levels new sanctions on Chinese officials. We're going to be talking about it live with our Senior Advisor, Rick Renell. Live from Washington, D.C., Jay Sekulow live. Phone lines are open for your questions right now. Call 1-800-684-3110.

That's 1-800-684-3110. And now, your host, Jordan Sekulow. Alright, before we start really the full show today, let me just say pray for the Boulder community and an update on that shooting after this horrible shooting last week in Atlanta, outside of Atlanta, and now another shooting in Boulder at a grocery store. Ten people killed. The victims have been identified.

Families have been notified, range in age from 20 to 65 years old. Among the victims, a 51-year-old police officer with the Boulder Police Department, first officer on the scene, has left behind seven children. Ultimately, the shooter was, it looks like he was somehow shot or something, but he was walked out of the grocery store and then put into an ambulance and then on the way. I'm sure we're going to find out more. There's information about his background, some of that's available online.

You can, you know, his name and what could he be tied to possibly, or is it just a lone actor? I think that would all be speculation right now, and we could possibly later in the week be talking about something different when it comes to what happened in Colorado as this unfolds. Now, what we see, of course, immediately is people politicizing it. Pelosi, Swalwell, Gretchen Whitmer, I mean, all with tweets out, you know, saying that this is why we need gun control, gun, you know, and it's one thing to combat gun violence, but gun control is not the way to stop this. The problem with this is, and this happens every time there's an issue, is they immediately go to politicization rather than saying, what is the real solution to this?

How do we resolve this situation? What's the way in which we can move this forward without creating a serious problem and unconstitutionally, but at the same time, reduce the ability for these kinds of things to happen? Now, mental health is a big part of this.

I've always been in favor of background checks. I don't think any of that would have stopped it here. I mean, that's the problem. And these weapons are out there.

You could buy them if you want them, and people do. Yeah, I mean, that is an issue. And whether or not the, you know, Colorado, again, we've seen shootings like this, unfortunately, there before, multiple times, these mass shooting events. And it's not a state run by Republicans always. It's a very purple state. So again, whatever laws that they have, but it's also a rural state where people need guns.

You know, they live in the wild, out in the wild still, and there's a need for them. So again, I think there's going to be more to this story potentially later in the week as things develop, just because of who the individual is. But we don't know enough about his background to start doing a full show about that and speculating about that as today. I mean, what we are going to get into now, and we're going to talk about this with Rick Rinnell, this growing, I mean, we've heard it from all of our senior advisors, you know, from Pompeo to Grinnell over and over and over again. China, China, China. Don't get distracted by Russia.

Don't get distracted by these other actors. Focus on the threat from China. And you see, finally, the US has announced some sanctions on China over the genocide of the Uyghurs. They're working with Canada and Europe to put human rights pressure on Beijing. I think this is after, basically, you saw this horrendous meeting between Blinken and the Chinese officials.

We're going to talk about Rick Rinnell, talk about that with Rick Rinnell. And then, you know, the US and China spar over racism at the United Nations at the UN General Assembly. This is from the Chinese representatives. If the US truly cared about human rights, they should address the deep-seated problems of racial discrimination, social injustice, and police brutality on their own soil. The Chinese feel they're bolded enough to attack the US on human rights, which, by the way, liberals, be careful how you talk about things that are happening in our own country, because you see how it's used by a country that's committing genocide.

They say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're the one that's having the Black Lives Matter protests. You're the racist. You're the problem with that. You've got the police brutality, not us.

Of course, they're committing genocide of an entire group of people. So we're going to talk about all of that today. Yeah. Also, let us say this. We are, of course, in our matching challenge campaign.

We're going to get near the end of the month of March. So your support of the ACLJ this next week is critical. Go to ACLJ.org. Any amount you donate to the ACLJ, we get a matching gift for.

What that means is if you donate $10, we get $20, and on it goes. So it's very, very important, very significant. ACLJ.org for that. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. Whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith, uncovering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy, and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress, the ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support.

For that, we are grateful. Now there's an opportunity for you to help in a unique way. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's matching challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support.

Take part in our matching challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

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I want to play this. This is from the Chinese delegation, the meeting between Secretary of State Blinken. It was a China summit direct with China.

Did not go well, to say the least. Take a listen to how the Chinese respond to the U.S. Again, just commenting on what has happened to the Uyghurs and what has happened to the Muslim minority in China and the genocide that is occurring. By the way, that genocide was declared by a former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in ACLJ senior counsel.

Take a listen by nine. China is firmly opposed to U.S. interference in China's internal affairs. We have expressed our staunch opposition to such interference, and we will take firm actions in response. On human rights, we hope that the United States will do better on human rights.

China has made steady progress in human rights, and the fact is that there are many problems within the United States regarding human rights, which is admitted by the U.S. itself as well. So if you were tough, your response would be, whatever problems we have, we're not committing genocide. We don't have mass incarceration. We don't have the camps.

We don't reprogram. We don't, again, take families apart to take their religion away from them. So you can't even compare the issues that we deal with, which are what issues that every major country deals with always consistently, racial issues, unfortunately, issues about, again, equality. It's part of the American experience but also part of most democracies' experience. What the Chinese are doing is intentional genocide.

That's very different. Well one's called a crime under international law. What is a cultural problem? Racism and acts of racism and prejudice are violations of domestic law, and you have domestic courts that can handle that, which is the way it's supposed to be handled. Now here's the problem. What a false comparison to say that the United States, because of the activities this summer, and we'll all acknowledge, I think we have to acknowledge that there were, there are instances of racisms in the United States.

That's not a surprise. We always need to do better. We need to do better. We are doing better in some areas.

Some areas we're in. But to compare the situation in the United States with genocide and the United States' response is not to respond back and say, you're kidding me, these aren't even equal comparisons. Now Than, I'm going to, I know there is bipartisan, I do know this, there are member, I don't, I won't say bipartisan as far as getting a result. I do know that there are Republicans and Democrats that share our view that the China problem is the number one problem. There are Jay, what I'm, what I'm concerned about is there may not be people on both sides of the aisle that will be willing to respond to this.

I mean, look, clearly the charge is laughable. I mean, the reason it has to be addressed though is because what China is trying to accomplish with the role, I mean, put it quite simply, China wants to take the place of America's leadership in the world. They just do Jay. And I mean, you hear a lot about the aggressive military buildup, you hear about the economic cores and the theft of intellectual property. But Jay, they're doing it while exterminating part of their people. So for them to challenge the United States on our human rights record, that has to be responded to. Otherwise it will play into their goal of taking over America's leadership in the world. Here's the other thing I would say though, Jay, the left wants the rest of the world to lead on this.

And that is not how it works. The rest of the world rallies around condemning these acts of human rights violations when the United States steps up and lead, when they do what Jordan referenced, which was the designation of genocide at the end of the Trump administration. If you don't respond with that kind of leadership, Jay, what happens? The rest of the world actually stands down and lets China get away with it. That's the kind of bipartisan response we've got to bolster here. But you see at these joint conferences, at these joint meetings, you see the Chinese just bashing the US and the US is tiptoeing. Now they are taking some action. They've announced sanctions on China. I'm trying to get exactly how these sanctions work.

They're targeting two individuals, the secretary of the party committee and then a director of the Public Service Security Bureau, which I guess they're probably involved in and what's happening to the Uyghurs. But let me tell you something, sanctioning two Chinese officials is a start, but in a country of 1.4 billion people, it's not going to do anything. No, I think that, look, we have to put a priority plan in place on who are the major bad actors globally. So clearly China number one, because both of their economic size and their military and the fact that we have a very significant economic interest tied in with China and they have one in the United States.

So you have that. So that's a world global issue. Then you have Iran. We talked about that the other day with yesterday with Mike Pompeo. And Iran is a bad actor, especially in the region where they engage in proxy to get their way, which has caused disruption in the Middle East, although there's been a lot of progress moving forward on that. So that's been a good thing that's come out of this. But you can't ignore the fact that the Chinese government believes that, listen, people that complain about America first, let me tell you what's not happening in China.

The Chinese government is not complaining about China first, nor are most of the people. But we know this. We've had experience there.

We've been there. And China has developed this kind of worldview. I'd say they're the number one.

That's how they view it. Us first. Yeah, China first.

And they are, you know, they're all over the world, big into mining all over Africa. And you'll see when they come in, when they come in, they don't, they're not necessarily spreading Chinese values, but what they're doing is buying off officials because they don't have the laws that we do in our country that prohibit that. And they set up basically Chinese villages and workers. They don't use the locals to work. They're not creating jobs. They're just buying off officials.

And so they are, the way that they expand is a way that would violate all of our laws. And you talked about the idea that we have to put U.S. markets and the banking system on the table, which I think your word that you use in our chat is true, would be painful for Americans to even consider and for a lot of businesses. But that's the only thing that seems to make China move is when it comes to money to the regime. It's the only thing they care about, Jordan.

And look, I mean, I think your dad put it right. Both the United States and China, we need each other's economic markets. The goal here is actually to do trade with each other. But we saw this play out in the last administration, Jordan.

The only thing that gets the Chinese regime's attention is if the superpower of the world, the United States, says, listen, we're not going to let you push us around. If you want to do business with us, as we know you must do to grow to the size that you want to be, you're going to have to play by the rules. We're not going to take an unequal playing field. So, Jordan, you talk about these sanctions on two Chinese officials.

Look, I think it's a good thing. But until you start saying, right, until you start saying your access to our financial system and the assets that move through our financial system and, by the way, ultimately your ability to sell to our citizens, Jordan, until you say that's on the table, they're just going to ignore these. Yeah, I mean, I think that is the biggest issue is that what I'm talking about with Rick Renell in the next segment is what do we need to do as a country?

If you could start initiating the plans that you wanted to do, how would you initiate the plans? I mean, is it first just saying we're not going to the Olympics? Second saying, you know, we're going to build a world coalition that says we're not going to the Olympics. Third, would you put the U.S., you know, the economic and banking on the table? Or are we not ready to do that yet?

Do we have to do a lot more work here at home before we're even ready to put that on the table? But what we're seeing is the Chinese pushing the U.S. around right now. Under President Trump, remember that we worked on significant issues like energy independence and manufacturing being brought back to the United States. So we had this whole plan that would de-emphasize our, you know, we're talking about reliance on energy, but our reliance on the Chinese manufacturing. That seems to be lost in all of this. The first thing that Biden does is he closes down the XL pipeline.

Not only does that unemployed 50 million people or 50,000 people, it impacts our energy sources for generations. So you have to ask yourself with all of this, what's really the end plan here? What are they trying to accomplish? And I think the answer is, it's not clear. It's just not clear. But what is clear is that we've got tough words with Russia and tough words with the Chinese.

Is there anything backing the words? Which is kind of what Thanos is saying. Like you said, sanctioning two people in China? Yeah, I mean, economic sanctions on two people in China, it makes their life difficult. It doesn't make the Communist Party of China's life difficult. And, you know, also individuals there are very unimportant.

I mean, I'd say under their culture, the way that they operate as a government. So like if those two guys get sanctioned, they'll just put in two different guys in the role. If it makes it easier for them to get around the same, two more guys will just come in because it's not about so much the individuals. It's not like most countries. It's the bigger party apparatus.

So two individuals in the party, you can put in two new guys. I wonder what their plan is though. In other words, when you see what they're saying at this meeting in Alaska, what was the goal of that meeting? Because it comes out that the Chinese kind of handled us. Now, you know, I'd like to get our side of the story, but and I, did they respond when the issues of racism in the United States come up? Did they say we're not doing systematic exterminations as you are in China through genocide?

Was that ever the response? That I know. And we don't know that.

I mean, somebody needs to ask that question. A lot of this is being done at CGA. They're giving us pictures, they're giving us readouts, but they're not giving us the entire story. And this is one of the issues with China, but Rick Rinnell, our special senior advisor for national security and foreign policy is joining us live in the next segment to talk about all of this. And again, we're going to keep preaching it here.

We have got to be China focused, not Russia distracted, China focused, not Russia distracted. Matching challenge month of March, double the impact your donation to the ACLJ. Donate today, ACLJ.org.

You can double your impact. We've got a group of donors that will match every donation that comes through. Donate today. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, Planned Parenthood's role in the abortion industry and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. Whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith, uncovering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress, the ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support.

For that, we are grateful. Now there's an opportunity for you to help in a unique way. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's matching challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support. Take part in our matching challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family.

Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Welcome back to Secular. I've been looking back into the sanctions again that were announced on these two Chinese individuals, and then I flip over and both of their entities and them are already sanctioned under the Minkowski Act, so they already had their US assets frozen, which means these two sanctions were meaningless. Yeah, so explain, I think it's important to explain. These two individuals and their corporations were already sanctioned in the US. So it was a re-sanctioning of existing sanctions.

Yeah, and there's some other entities, like 24 of their entities that get listed here and officials because of their crackdown in Hong Kong. But the problem with all this is, and Rick Rinnell, our senior advisor, is here with us and Rick is, sanctioning two companies in China, which are probably obviously controlled by the government anyways, and then a couple of people does nothing. And then they're comparing our issue on racism in the United States as they phrased it, which again, I don't belittle the problem, but I think we've made progress. There's obviously a lot of issues the country has to deal with, but we are not committing genocide against groups of people, which they are in China. How do you view that threat right now? I think that we have to put on our normal American human hat, rather than our Washington DC political hat. And everybody realizes around the world that there is no moral equivalency between what we do and what China does.

We have problems. There's no question that no one should minimize those problems. But to somehow suggest that our imperfection is on the same level as what China does by denying basic human rights to their people is atrocious. But I have to say, this is what the Democrats have done for four years. They should not be surprised when they have messaged for political gain inside the United States that we are a racist, sexist, homophobe country that we should be ashamed of that dramatically has to be changed.

Gavin Newsom recently said, we cannot go back to normal after COVID because normal was in equal. And the idea that we have a society that's created inequality on purpose or systemically is an outrage. And so you get things like when you go to the UN, the Chinese then pick up the Democratic talking points and they say to our ambassador, how dare you talk about your own personal experience with racism and then try to lecture us. They are making the moral equivalency argument because the Democrats have allowed that to happen.

Yeah. I mean, you read, I read Rick that the quote from this diplomat from China at the UN General Assembly talking to all 139 member states, if the US truly cared about human rights and then you look at the terminology used in English, these are the words of the left when they try to attack America. Deep seated problems of racial discrimination, social injustice, police brutality on our own soil. I mean, for them to talk about police brutality Rick, I'll just take one of those.

I mean, they're the most brutal police probably in the world and they do so publicly, they don't even hide it. But yet their diplomats, as you said, they come and they take the language of our own government now, the people in charge and they use it right against us. Look, this should be a huge red signal, flashing red light to the Democrats that you have overplayed your hand on telling Americans that we are racist, sexist or homophobe.

We have to stop this. They have overplayed and dramatized the situation where our enemies, our other countries that we compete with are using it against us because they have convinced not only some American voters, but the world that somehow capitalism is terrible and that the American government system is atrocious and we have to tell the Democrats to stop. They need to tell people to love America, that we are a great country, that we should be absolutely proud of what we've created. We're the greatest democracy in the history of the world.

Capitalism saves people from poverty over and over, but then you can talk about ways in which we can improve, but give it some context. The Democrats have failed to give the American people context. One of the things I've thought about Rick and looking at just kind of the policy perspective on this, and we talked about this the other day, and that is what I'm hearing so far from the Biden administration is Putin's a killer.

That was last week's. China calls us racist and I haven't seen our response because they don't tell us what the response is. They'll probably say we disagree with that. With Iran, it was the same kind of thing.

It's just kind of soft talk. They want to go back in the JCPOA. I asked this the other day to our senior counsel Mike Pompeo.

I'm going to ask you the same question. So we go from China to Iran. Now realize I think China is a bigger threat than Iran because Iran although is a global threat, it's a much more regionally hostile threat.

But let me ask you this. We know that the JCPOA, the so-called Iran deal, even though the United States left, which was the right thing to do when you were in office, the European countries stayed in it. All of them are now acknowledging that the Iranians are not in compliance. They have partners in that agreement. We're out of it, but all these others are in it. So why in the world would you go back into this?

What possible motivation would there be? Look, I think this has been the frustration from the beginning when you look at the European argument, even from the moment when we got out of the Iran deal. You look at the press release and they were complaining about us getting out. But you look at the bottom part of their statement and they say, make no mistake, Iran is a threat. We want to deny it nuclear weapons. We are united with the Americans on the goal. It's just the tactic of getting there. And this is where we have to call the Europeans out on the hypocrisy, because I can tell you after spending years in Germany that the Germans have the largest economy in Europe for a reason, because they like to trade with everybody and they are willing to put aside human rights abuses and look the other way.

And I know that's a tough statement, but it is the absolute truth. When you look at their dealings with China and you look at their desire to start trading with Iran, I dealt with the business community in Germany. They were desperate to continue trading with Iran. And they have this idea that engagement is the path. Engagement is the way to convince the Iranians.

Now, look, I'm all for engagement, but I'm also for benchmarking after a little while to see if engagement worked. Take China, for instance. We've been engaging with China. We allowed them into the WTO for 20 years. They've gotten worse. It has not gotten better.

The human rights abuses, the rule of law, all of that is a bigger disaster today than what it was when we helped them enter into the WTO. I think that we have to be able to say that engagement with this current Iranian regime is not working and we need to isolate them. Rick Grenell, senior advisor to the American Center for Law and Justice on international policy issues as well as national security. Thank you as always. Appreciate your insights.

Thanks, Rick. I think that you see right there the difference in approach and the difference in how to engage. But you know, that's why we're going to keep offering this because we have to kind of, in a sense, tell people what should be happening right now. And we're not saying it just from us. We're bringing in the top expert to the ACLJ to do that. I was going to say, you know, your support of the ACLJ allows us to give you that kind of analysis that you've heard over the last two days in the former secretary of state and the former director of national intelligence on our broadcast, not just on our broadcast and our team. They're advising us as to what the policies we should be advocating through our offices in Washington, through our policy offices.

Your support in these last eight days of this month are critical. ACLJ.org and our matching challenge campaign, any amount you donate, we get a matching gift for. That's ACLJ.org. We'll be back with more, including your comments and questions at 1-800-684-3110.

At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's matching challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes 100. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Live from Washington, D.C., Jay Sekulow Live. And now, your host, Jordan Sekulow.

All right, welcome back to Sekulow. So, you know, we have got, we told you we'd keep updating on what happened in Boulder. We were waiting for some things to get confirmed. And again, this still doesn't speak to motive yet. But the police have identified the shooter in Boulder, 21 years old. His name is Ahmad Al Alawi Alissa. Now, we don't have any information about him. If he's tied to anything, any kind of bigger movement or online, it just hasn't happened yet. This is, this, but again, that name is being used by the Boulder Police Department. It's out there. You have to then, if you are a, someone who's looking into this, you have to look at that name and then include at least part some of that as a potential motive.

At least you want to knock that out. Well, we got Andy O'Connell here, of course, the Senior Counsel for the ACLJ, but also in his career as I've been as well. He's been an Assistant District Attorney or Special District Attorney and a former U.S. Attorney. We're both federal lawyers and states.

So, let's look at this from a state standpoint. We can't make any, you know, we got the name of the, we knew the name, by the way, the first half hour of the broadcast. We were not going to release it until it was confirmed. So, our team said do not release it until it was confirmed.

It's been confirmed. Now, that doesn't mean that there's, this is an act of terrorism in an international sense, but you've got to investigate and let's tell everybody what happens here. What are the DAs doing? Yeah, the DAs, of course, immediately put into operation the investigative tools to see who this person is, who his associates were, what his situation is, and probably search warrants are being issued for his house, for the premises in which he occupied, for his computer, for social media outlets that he may have engaged in, for newspapers that he may have read, periodicals that he may have taken to just see exactly where he comes from and what his social background is.

I see one news outlet said that he was very anti-social and has been paranoid since high school. Those are the things that district attorneys and police officers are going to look at to see the kind of person that we're dealing with. They'll also check his social media platforms?

Absolutely. Every internet searches? Internet searches, what he was looking at, what he was reading, what he was trained to, what courses he may have been taking, what things interested him, what things disinterested him, how his interaction was with people. So, you immediately begin the operation of trying to figure out who this person is, what he interacted with, what he did, where his mind was, if you can possibly ever fathom the mind of a killer like this. Wes, to the families, this is, I mean, you've dealt with, I mean, you used to receive the killed in action at Dover. What do you tell the families of this thing? Well, you know, you be there for them. What I used to tell the families at Dover, they would say, you know, will I ever get over this? And my answer was, you will never get over it. You will get past it, beyond it at some point. It's too early for that, obviously for these people in Colorado.

But this is the kind of thing that makes an indelible mark on your life. And certainly our hearts and prayers go out to them. Back to what you were saying about the shooter, the American people, we are a very fair minded people as a group, and we don't want to jump to conclusions. But because so many acts of violence have been committed by foreign nationals from the Middle East, it's normal for us to have question marks when we find out that this person, you know, comes from that ethic. Do we know that he's, do we know that his national origin? Saudi. It is Saudi. Okay.

It looks like it. I've spent most of his life in the U.S. though. I mean, he grew up here, brothers and sisters, he's already talking about him, his aunt, he said he's being paranoid and issues, very antisocial. That also speaks to, though, the guys who joined terror groups, very antisocial and paranoid. Why did he think people were coming after him?

Maybe because he was planning some attack like this. I mean, there are questions that that family has already posed to me by them speaking out, which they probably shouldn't have, that already lead to a guy who was worried that the police were onto him, worried that someone was hunting him down. Like what, the FBI maybe? I mean, so that's why I think we probably need the feds involvement here. You know, we need to hear from them and that's going to take some time. But I think putting the name out is fair because, listen, with what happened in Atlanta, it was immediately considered racial. Right.

Here where you don't have a specific, you know, it's a grocery store with lots of different kinds of people in it, you have to try to figure out motives. And, of course, this is where you'd start on this case. Unfortunately, that's just the where we live, as Wes said, and the point we're at in our history. We're right back on second. We'll get back to the other issues.

Take your phone calls at 1-800-684-3110. We'll be right back. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. Whether it's defending religious freedom, protecting those who are persecuted for their faith, uncovering corruption in the Washington bureaucracy, and fighting to protect life in the courts and in Congress, the ACLJ would not be able to do any of this without your support.

For that, we are grateful. Now there's an opportunity for you to help in a unique way. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's Matching Challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20.

A $50 gift becomes $100. This is a critical time for the ACLJ. The work we do simply would not occur without your generous support.

Take part in our Matching Challenge today. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

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Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Welcome back to Secular. Getting back to the main topic we're focused on today, and it's a topic that we're focusing on a lot at the ACLJ, and of course our international work as well, is China. I think that it's fair to say, too, going back to why is this refocused on China.

One, they are committing genocide. The Biden administration could have pulled that back and said, we disagreed with the Trump administration's characterization. It was done by Secretary Pompeo.

Remember the ACLJ team? Now, they didn't. They're acknowledging the genocide is occurring now.

So that's one step that they hadn't done yet, but they are not changing that designation. Second, then you've got the Olympics on the horizon. You also have the issue, and I think that this is important as well, when it comes to China. And of course with COVID. It all starts back with, has China gone to a point where it basically is waging a war on the United States, not just economically through currency manipulation, but potentially through biological weapons and diseases they're releasing out of the world? What's coming next is the question out of China, out of a party that if you could commit genocide against your own people, it's not hard to release pandemics on the world. We have been, not a lot of lawyers can say this, some, but we have been to China. We have actually, Jordan and I participated and spoke at a global conference of lawyers that the Chinese government was heavily involved in. And it was on religious freedom and free speech.

And you realize who you were talking to. There's a lot of lawyers here and there's a lot of the people are desiring that kind of freedom and liberty, by the way. The religious outpouring in China is probably one of the largest in the world. Having said all of that, the repressiveness of the regime is something I think most of us can't even imagine. You talk about a police state. So, if we have police abuse in the United States, situations that have developed this past summer, where there looks like they're, you got to wait for the trials, but looked like there was police abuse. Those are bad things, but to have systematic West, systematic genocide, and have the world not do anything because the world's afraid of the economic consequences of it.

Yeah. We are so dependent upon China economically, financially, trade and what have you, as is the world. And they don't want to step on that boundary. But you know, China is a multi-pronged adversary of the United States. China believes that the 21st century belongs to them. They see the United States as declining power. They see themselves as a rising power. And it is their goal, and they have stated as such, that it is their goal to become the leading world power and to be the world power economically, militarily, technologically, politically every way. Just one example of this, Jordan and Jay, is that China now has the largest standing army in the world.

We have more technology and better weapons capability, and they have more troops and more ships. So it's not just intellectual theft and trade and currency manipulation, those kinds of things. They intend on becoming the world's superpower and they actually believe they can accomplish it. And unless we take stronger action, they just might.

Yeah. I mean, I think, listen to what the Chinese delegation said at this meeting in Alaska between our Secretary of State Tony Blink and their representatives, bite 12. So we do hope that for our two countries, it's important that we manage our respective affairs well, instead of deflecting the blame on somebody else in this world. Basically, ignore what we're doing. Don't worry about us. And then we won't worry about you, because that is how they operate.

Yes. Leave us alone. We'll leave you alone. They would be fine if we were carrying out genocide, too. I know this sounds insane, but if we were doing it, too, no problem, as long as the economic relationship continued. That's why their spread around the world is so scary, because they will never step in to be the good guy. That's the problem with the Chinese Communist Party. We have offices in Africa, and Jordan has been down there, and the Chinese are all... Just villages, towns set up.

So I've got to go to Andy and Fan, but I want to go to Fan first. Looking at the situation with China and hoping, as we said earlier, that there is at least some bipartisan agreement of the nature of the threat, is there any bipartisanship on how that threat should be handled? There is, Jay, but here's my concern. Right now, that message that you need to look the other way, you need to kind of close your eyes to the grievances, that has a receptive audience on the left in Washington, D.C. right now, Jay, and that's just not hyperbole. Let's look specifically at this designation of genocide.

There were plenty on the left when the Biden administration came in, Jay, pushing the Biden administration to pull that designation back. Now, I'm glad they didn't, but it's very telling the arguments that they used, and I heard this repeatedly. The argument was basically, well, there's no genocide happening, because there's not an extermination of a people group happening. Jay, it is now conclusive that what's happening is this minority people group is being put in camps and they're being exterminated through forced sterilization.

Now, you tell me, forced sterilization, is that extermination of a people group or not? There are a lot, Jay, in Washington, D.C. on the left that would say it's not by a legal technicality. Fortunately, the Biden administration has resisted that, but there is a large receptive audience in Washington, D.C. to this argument that we should look the other way because the economic interests are more heightened than those human rights violations. Well, that's because the pro-China lobby is so gigantic. I mean, you saw that with Eric Swalwell and the ability to get – And Pelosi, too. And Pelosi, as well, and her comments.

And we looked past it and, you know, you saw Kevin McCarthy say they're shocking and it's supposed to just say basically, who cares? Financial relationships with Chinese businesses as well. Yeah, the whole Biden family, too, is on the Chinese payroll. Well, I mean, certainly those allegations are out there.

Now, I asked this to Andy. We looked at – But they're out there under real criminal investigations. Yes.

I mean, they're not like out there like on a blog. Right. So if their family is potentially dependent on, you know, being able to retire off of Chinese money, they're not going to want to do anything that is too aggressive.

Which raises the issue, though. You know, China is lecturing the United States while they are violating Andy international law with impunity. I listened to Katie McFarland make an interesting statement when that lecture was taking place and Blinken was sitting across the table.

She said, if it was me, I'd have turned around and walked out and wouldn't have tolerated listening to that instead of engaging this person and trying to talk rational with him. But as Ambassador Grenell said, the reason that the Chinese Communist Party is being given the incentive to say and do the things they are is because the left in our country has cut us down so much, attacking capitalism, attacking the United States, attacking the democracy that we are, the republic that we are, calling us racist, calling us, uh, uh, you know, attacking the, the ethnic, uh, minorities in the country. So the Chinese say, well, let's just pick up on that. Let's just pick up on the left's theme and, and throw it right in their face.

And they won't say anything about it because it's the left that's generating it. Well, that's what they was just saying. And Ambassador Grenell made the same statement.

I mean, so I will go back to them for a second here. I mean, you know, what you said, it's rather shocking when you think about it, that they would have viewed the policies, not through the lens of genocide, but technically they're correct. It's not genocide. Well, if you forced sterilize, it takes a little while to exterminate them. So it's not immediate extermination.

So maybe we should go soften them. And of course that's ridiculous. But Jay, uh, when, when the decision makers, when the policy makers are the ones that have been infiltrated and I go back to the Eric Swalwell situation, this is not hyperbole, Jay. There was a Chinese spy inside his office while he was sitting on the house intelligence committee and guess where he still sits?

On the house intelligence committee. So look, until, until you're ready to clean your own house, this is going to be a problem and there's going to be a soft audience there for it. But they're not going to clean their own house because the leader of the house is right there with them as far as policy goes. Right.

I mean, the speaker of the house is right there too. I mean, it's protecting those and those that interest. So, I mean, I think now Katie McFarland, you know, she's gone so far as to say it's a cold war. I think that we probably need to come up with new terminology for what this is because Russia did not pose an economic problem for the U S they just did. I mean, uh, China does. They still don't. China does. We can't just cut off China tomorrow. They own our debt. They own our debt.

They would also see, even if we said we don't care. Yeah. So we'd be in serious trouble. Now you can say that's over bad policies, but that's where we are. Realistically. The question is what will you put on the line to say, if you don't stop this, if you don't stop this genocide, we are actually going to stop your ability to trade on the U S it's not going to happen until we have our drug manufacturing back in the United States, West and our medical equipment and things like that.

Yeah. Meanwhile, back to what Dan and Jordan say, my human rights, they're trying to lecture us. Human rights organizations say there are about 2 million people in China that are in reeducation camps. 2 million people. You know, we need to define for everybody a reeducation camp is compulsory brainwashing with imprisonment and torture, separation from family, uh, forced sterilization, concentration camps, basically same idea.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is work camps. Um, uh, and so instead of mass executions of people, which is one way you can commit genocide, they are mass exterminating the potential for the race to continue to grow or the ethic group to grow. And that's why these forced sterilizations and separations and just disappearances that occur, but it is on a mass scale. Uh, and it's a Muslim community. And yet the left doesn't care about these Muslims. That's what I always like to say. You know, they're not the right skin tone and it'll come from the right part of the world. There's no political correctness issues, I guess for them.

So because they, uh, they, they are messing with their friends and Chinese leadership, but they don't care about those. Right. All right. We're going to come back. We're going to take your calls last segment. You can talk to those question on anything. 1-800-684-3110. Everybody was cringes when I say on anything, but you know, we're pretty open to that last segment.

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Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org. Welcome back to our last segment on taking your phone calls. 1-800-684-3110.

That's 1-800-684-3110. The issue of China internationally. I think this will be the international issue that defines the Biden administration because the Trump administration was looking at it a different way. We're going to do what's necessary to ultimately confront this, but first we need to take the steps here. What do we need to do?

Manufacturing, energy independence, you mentioned even like pharmaceuticals, things like that. Before we start cutting them off, we've got to have that ready here in the US so we don't put our own country and people into a crisis. See, it's America first and Americans first, but then you set yourself up into a much better situation to negotiate with the Chinese and threaten them because you can start treating them more like a Russia, you can start treating them more like a bad actor on the world stage, and they're a little bit easier to cut off. Right now, if you don't do that and if you don't take those steps, you can't get to that second point.

That's right. I mean, I quoted this the other day, but I'll say it again. Benjamin Disraeli famously said, when you're dealing with countries like this, you have to deal with power and strength.

If you don't, you're not going to be successful. Now, we have a real dilemma with China, and that is they're a huge economic part of our economy. Most manufacturing, and we're not talking about just the stuff you buy at the retail stores, but your pharmacies, the pharmaceuticals you buy, the medications you need, as Wes said, the hospital equipment that you need is being made there. One of the things that the previous administration was trying to do was change that equilibrium, Andy, to bring back, and I want Harry to comment on that too, to bring it back into force.

Yes. The Trump administration, with all the power that it had, was trying to equalize us, at least get us back into some sort of equal competitive trading and dealing with the Chinese. That I don't see continuing with the Biden administration. The Trump administration was firm on the Chinese, understood the threat they posed to us.

I took a pill the other day for headache relief, Jay, a simple pill, and it said made in China on the box. We are making our medicines and penicillins and all sorts of things in China instead of in the United States of America. These are the fundamental things that we depend on to live, and we have deferred to the Chinese. The Trump administration, they were on to them, and they knew that what was going on was wrong and that they were going to take us over.

I don't see that happening with the force and the vigor in the Biden administration. No, I'm concerned about, so Harry from, Harry Hutchison is our Director of Policy, Senior Counsel at the ACLJ, and of course, frequently on this broadcast. Harry, looking at the situation with China now, and this recent spat in Alaska, this meeting they had where basically the Chinese government accused us of widespread racism, and you know, so they said basically you shouldn't be talking to us about anything. Meanwhile, they're committing genocide.

How do you see this? Well, I think China's commitment to genocide remains unabated, and it demands a response if the United States wishes to be a principled country. However, it's important to keep in mind contextually that the Democrats have often acted as political vampires and mercenaries, liars who proclaim their commitment to human rights when convenient, but then they act as mercenaries and pursue profits and campaign contributions as a collateral consequence to ignoring oppression and subordination. So the issue for the American people is will we continue to elect individuals who are literally going to put profits ahead of people when it's politically convenient? So the Democrats quite frequently talk about oppression, they talk about racism, they talk about inequality, except they are unwilling to face up to the source of humanity's oppression, a leading source of humanity's oppression with respect to the country of China. And so they want to continue trade, they want to continue the process of allowing political actors, including members of the Biden family, apparently to continue to profit from China.

This, I think, in the long run is unsustainable, and I hope the American people see it quickly. Lynette Scholar from New York on Line 1. Lynette, welcome to Secular, you're on the air. Thank you very much, Jordan, for taking my call, and pray for all of you regularly. Thank you for your wonderful work.

My question is regarding the impact of the tension between China and the U.S. right now, the impact of that on, as example, Pastor Saw and any other persecuted people that we know of there. Look, it's difficult. I'm gonna go to Pam Bennett on this because we've all been working on this.

C.C. Heil from our office has been working on this for years now with Pastor Saw's case. And for those that don't know, he's not an American citizen, but he's a legal resident of the United States, Chinese national, was doing mission work in China, was picked up and has been in jail in a horrific situation for almost four years. Now, on the previous administration worked very hard, and we were getting close, but Chinese is very difficult.

Pam, what's the latest as far as just that kind of the persecution issue as it relates there? We raised that a few and frequently, yeah. We sure did, and also through administrative channels, Jay, but this was one of the most refreshing changes of the last administration. It was really the first administration in a long time that when you went for economic talks like the ones we just had in Alaska, these issues would be put on the table, and they would be made a primary condition for talks going further. Jay, we just know from the personnel that are put in place, that's not the case with this administration. Now, we're gonna continue to press. We're gonna find avenues to advocate for this case, but it's not just Chinese citizens that are victims of human rights. Sometimes it is permanent residents of other countries like Pastor Saw, and it does spell trouble for it.

But Jay, I would tell you this. When the nominee for the administrator of USAID is none other than Samantha Power, and she's gonna have control over hundreds of millions of dollars of U.S. taxpayer dollars, and we know her track record from the last administration, tells you an awful lot about how those priorities will be advanced. AJ on YouTube said, Trump had the right path for dealing with China. He just needed more time to get it all done.

I think that's very, very true. Let's take the second. Got another call. Yeah, back to the phones we go. Phil in California online too. Hey, Phil.

Hello, and nice to talk to you. I want to know about impacting the economy in China. What if the American people, instead of relying on Congress to eliminate our trade debt to them, took it upon ourselves and educated our population to buy things made in America?

I cannot buy anything from Amazon where I find out where it's manufactured until it gets at my door. By the end of 2008, I've spent my money on Chinese goods. Yeah, I mean, I think it's gotten to a point, Harry, where it's really almost impossible to just say, I'm gonna go out and buy American because you wouldn't be able to buy, like, free capability. No, we don't have the ability to buy all the things that you need, and there wouldn't be enough people to do it on a mass scale because they would need things.

And like you said, you go to Amazon and a lot of it's from China or other places. I think the additional issue is cost. And so it's very, very important to note that this has been a long-term problem, and it's been a long-term problem that has been in the making for decades. And so I think what we do need is an authentic manufacturing revolution in the United States.

The prior administration was making efforts in that direction, but it will require a long-term commitment by the American people to buy America. All right, folks, remember this entire month of March has been a matching challenge month. You still have the ability to donate to the ACLJ. Double the impact of your donation at ACLJ.org.

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We'll talk to you tomorrow. At the American Center for Law and Justice, we're engaged in critical issues at home and abroad. For a limited time, you can participate in the ACLJ's matching challenge. For every dollar you donate, it will be matched. A $10 gift becomes $20. A $50 gift becomes $100. You can make a difference in the work we do, protecting the constitutional and religious freedoms that are most important to you and your family. Give a gift today online at ACLJ.org.