Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Okay, there we go. Okay, there we go.

A little dial right there. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. Hope you're going to have a good time listening. If, as usual, you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call and we can blab easy stuff.

We have nobody waiting right now, but if you'd also prefer, you can also send me an email at info at CARM, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. You can send me an email there and we sometimes get to those. I like doing them. All right, now today is May 13, 2025 for the podcasters. I think it's already listed on everything that we do. And there you go. All right, so I've got a cord stuck underneath my chair wheel, so I've got to fix that. Just a sec, because you know how that can be. There we go. Come on, one more. There we go. All right, got it.

Live radio and tech problems. So I'm working on two articles on the website, which I think are interesting. And as I've said before, you may know that I deal a lot with arguments and with stuff, and then what I'll do is I will field test them.

I'll have something and I'll go out there and talk to people and see what they say. And one of the things, one of the arguments that I've developed over the years basically is the idea that justification is by faith alone and Christ alone. And what the EO and the RC, Eastern Orthodox Roman Catholics will do is they'll say it's faith that works. You have to have faith that works. It's the faith that works, so it's faith and works.

They try and the sneak work is in there. So I'm doing an analysis on that statement, looking for logical issues, and hopefully I'll release that and another one either today or tomorrow, working on that and an analysis of stuff. I enjoy doing that.

You know, it's my thing. And so the reason I'm telling you is because what I'll do is I will work it out. I will field test it, present something to a bunch of people, and then I modify my arguments and then my articles so that what you get is something theoretically polished so that you know, you don't have to do the work. I'll do it for you. And then say, here, check this argument out. Check this out.

You could use it and things like that. So, you know, simple, easy peasy, all right? There you go. So let's get to the callers. Let's get to, let's see, Nelson from California. Nelson, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Matt. Bless you, my brother. Bless you. I have a question, and this is just my theory of it, but first, in Revelation Chapter 5, I believe. I don't know how it says it verse by verse, but I'm going to give you the kind of prayer phrase it, where John is crying because he sees that no one is worthy to open up the scroll.

But then, I believe, and Nelson tells him, don't cry. There's one that is worthy, which is the one who was slain like a lamb was Christ. And then the lamb walked up to the one sitting on the throne, Caparo, and takes the scroll from the one on the throne. So my question is about that scenario there. Did John see the Father but not in his full essence?

No. No, he can't see the Father because it's just not possible for anyone to see the Father because the Father dwells in an unapproachable light who no man has seen or can't see. That's what the Bible says.

1 Timothy 6.16. So, they might have a representation of him, the glory of God on the throne, things like that. But remember, Revelation is a vision with a lot of symbols in it.

So, I would say, to be consistent with scripture, no, they didn't actually see God the Father. Yeah. Exactly. That's where I kind of lean on that.

I saw some type of manifestation of the Father but not in his full, full glory essence because he would have been zapped away. That's right. There you go. Yeah.

I think that's good. Okay, cool. And do you have any articles of that?

On that particular thing, I don't think so. So, what you could do is you have a particular argument or question is that you can write up something very succinct and send it to info at karm.org. And I see a lot of the questions and a lot of times I'll just write an article in response to it as I do an analysis or say, well, here's this verse, here's this thing, you know. I just do that kind of thing.

So, that's what I would suggest if you want to do that. Okay. All right. Okay. All right, Matt.

Well, thank you very much again. And I'm sad to say that those Mormons never came back after, you know. And maybe you can give me some, what do you call it, construct criticism on this. We were dialoguing back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And I was giving them scripture and they were, you know, giving me the Mormon book, whatever. And I was giving them scripture and to the point where I was kind of leading them on to where basically one of them answered and said, so, what are you trying to say, that we're deceived?

And I'm not going to lie. And I said, yes, you guys are deceived. And by me saying that, they lost it.

One of them got up and I'm not subscribing to this. And so, now, was I correct by telling them the truth in that way? They asked a direct question. Well, you know, look, I'm going to just tell you, in my opinion, I have witnessed so many times, I've done it right once.

There was one time I thought I did everything right, just one, in all the 40 some odd years. So, what's the right way? I don't know. So, you do what you can, you say what you can, and then you review what you say. Then you say, Lord, was that the right thing? I don't know.

Because you could say the exact same thing to one Mormon and the same thing to another Mormon and have completely different effects. You just don't know. Your job is what we call sales, not production. Just do the best you can. If you really mess up, you think you did, confess it to God and ask him, well, I think I messed up, Lord.

Please tell me what to do. And, you know, move forward. That's all. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Okay. And so, I get the names and it's like, man, I want to, you know, I wanted to, later, you know, after they took off, I was like, man, I should have told them I wanted to do this. Once you come for an hour and the first half of what we'll read, your Mormon book, you could teach me. And then what it says, we'll go word for word. And then the other half hour, we'll go into the Bible, verse by verse. You know, but they never came back and I don't know where I can get ahold of them. They're the exact same people, basically, that come here.

So, because there's Mormons everywhere, so. Yep. Just keep trying. That's all you can do. Keep trying, okay?

That's all you can do. All right, man. Thank you very much. Thank you for that. All right, buddy. All right.

Okay, buddy. God bless. Okay. God bless. Bye-bye.

All right. Now, let's get on the phone with Mike from Ohio. Mike, welcome.

You're on the air. Well, thank you. Well, thank you for taking my call. Yeah, you blew up my brain yesterday about why God doesn't save everyone. And I was contemplating that it's old, and it wasn't easy.

That was for sure. No. And then I was reading the Bible and I was contemplating it more, and then I said, okay, God, do you treat everyone the same? And that's my question today.

Well, yes and no. We could say, yes, he treats everyone the same in his love and justice and stuff like that according to his character. But he might be more patient, for example, with, let's just say, someone who's very ignorant about all kinds of stuff in Christianity and just prays a lot and makes mistakes witnessing versus someone who's well-educated as a Christian and teaches it and then blows it. Maybe he'll treat them differently and react to them differently. So I can't say God treats everyone equally all the time in every way. I would think that there's variation because he reacted to Moses different than he did you and me or Paul the Apostle. So there's definitely differences there. Yeah, I think so too. And then he called the Israelites, what do you call it, stiff neck, hard to listen to.

You know, sometimes I feel like I'm a stiff neck sometimes. And anyway, so maybe he treats me a little bit differently than you because you know the scripture better than I do. So I don't know.

That is an interesting question. So does he treat non-believers the same? No, he doesn't.

That I know. So he treats the unbelievers differently than us. He has a graciousness to us that's not expressed to the unbelievers.

There's different kinds of graciousness. In Matthew 5, 43-48, God lets the unbelievers enjoy wind and rain and good things. But with us, he has a fellowship relationship with us through Jesus Christ that the unbelievers don't have. And he indwells us and not them.

So yeah, he'll chastise us faster than the unbeliever. I wonder what that's like. I've never experienced that. I don't know what that is. I haven't either. Yeah, I wouldn't know.

I couldn't help you. I wouldn't know. I've been perfect all my life. My wife doesn't think so, but I know she's wrong. So I just look at her and tell her.

So we had this conversation about wives before, but God is an awesome person. I know that in my life. And to understand him is very, very intriguing. Or is that a good word? Yes. It's intriguing, perplexing, you know, challenging, annoying, wonderful. It's all of it, you know? Right.

Right. And so my point, another question is, is why does some unbelievers follow him sooner and more open-hearted than other unbelievers? I've seen guys that, you know, all of a sudden they lose their job and they're crawling to me and like, Mike, I lost my job. I don't know what I'm going to do. Please pray for me. And like, you know, I've lost my job before and I was at peace at it because I knew God was direct in my life. And it's so, it's so amazing how mature and immature and how God deals with different people, different ways. And it's just, and you pray for those immature and I'm not saying I'm perfect or mature. You know, I mean, I'm just saying it's, the question is, it's amazing how God treats everyone a little bit on their level, you know what I mean?

And how he chastises each one of us. I answered my own question, didn't I? Well, you're actually helping me think through it too.

It's a good question. You know, maybe I could write an article, does God treat everyone equally? And you know, I don't want to be treated fairly.

I don't. I don't want to talk about you, but I don't want fairness from God. I want mercy and grace. You know, I don't want fairness.

So you know. I want God's best. Don't you? I mean, I, you know, I really want, yeah, I want, I want God to just give me everything he's got. I wish he could just take everything away that I don't want. You know what I mean?

And give me everything he's got, you know? I wish that and prayed that many times, but hey, there's a break, but you've got to go. Okay, man. So God bless. God bless. All right. Bye-bye. Okay. We'll talk to you later. God bless.

Hey, folks. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

We're not back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Call Reverend. Welcome back to the show.

You can call the numbers easy, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Chris from Boise, Idaho. Hey, Boise. I was just there yesterday. Hey.

What do you got, buddy? Yeah. So my question is regarding the, I'm not, I'm sure you're familiar with it.

It's called the privation theory of evil. Oh yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Yeah. I'm just wondering, do you feel like that could be like a good foundation for like an argument for the existence of God? Because I know that you use tag, but do you think that maybe the privation theory of evil could be used as a good foundation for argument?

Well, we have to discuss whether or not it's true, because I had a discussion, two discussions recently about this. And the idea that evil is simply the privation of what is good, that it exists because there's no good in it. I don't buy into it.

I just don't. When Satan fell, he became fallen. Now that's a connotation of his soul, whatever you call it. There was a change and he became evil at that point. So are we saying that just goodness left him and well, what's left? Well then if that's the case, then it implies that there's evil and good within him at the same time, but evil left and good left and evil is what was left in him. It doesn't make sense.

So the idea of privation, I just don't get it. Not that experience makes doctrine, but I remember once there was a situation I was in and I could feel evil. I could feel it.

And I still remember to this day, and I talked to others who had similar experiences. It only happened to me once this one time, but others have said the same thing. Not that experience makes it true, but it's like, okay, what's going on? You feel something and it's malicious. You're aware of it.

You are affected. Okay, so I just don't think the privation thing is legit. I don't, you know? So you actually believe that evil is a force then? Yes, it's something.

You know, it's like when your wife looks at you. It's not the absence of a positive. No.

Whatever is aligned with God is... Go ahead. Yes, not an absence of a positive. It's the presence of negative. Okay. Hmm, interesting. Yeah.

Okay. That's my opinion. That's my opinion, yeah. Because I mean, you can look at it from the angle of like, if you're not in alignment with God and set on the morality that aligns with him, then everything that comes about that's negative is a result of just being off the path and wouldn't that fall under... Does that make sense or not really? Say it again? I mean...

I didn't want to hear you. Well, I'm saying like, you know, you're in alignment with God when you're in alignment with the moral compass that leads to him, then there's an absence of, you know, all the negative things and evil is a result of just being off that path. Yeah. Yeah, there is off the path, but what do you do about someone who just intentionally does something wrong, steals or murders or, you know, other things? There's an intention there. There's something going on.

I wouldn't... Here's a statement I say to atheists sometimes, I say, you behave based on what you believe. You don't based on what you don't believe, but what you do believe. And so people behave based on their nature. If they do evil things, it's because their nature is evil. But to say, it's like saying, well, there's no good, then they behave based on what's not there.

There's not good, so they behave accordingly to what's not there. This doesn't make sense. Right. Right. Okay. Interesting. Okay.

Okay. Do you have any articles on, like, have you studied this because I know, I think it comes from like Augustine or Aquinas or something like that. That's kind of like the privation of evil theory. No, I've not really done too much of it, but you've really got my interest peaked at it actually. And I might work on an article on this.

I'm working on issues of justification and faith alone and logical arguments with that right now. But this is worthwhile. It's come up. You're the third person in about a month. So maybe I'll write something.

That's what I do is when the wheel starts squeaking, I'll go, okay, I'll write on that. I hear it enough. Yeah. Cool. All right. Okay. Well, hey, I appreciate your time. Hey, no problem, man. It's a good question.

It is a great question. Yeah. All right. Okay.

Well, I appreciate your time. All right, buddy. God bless. Okay. God bless. All right. Bye. God bless. Okay. All right.

Now, let's see. Next longest waiting is Priscilla from North Carolina. Priscilla, welcome. You're on the air. Hello, Matt. How are you? I'm fine.

How are you doing? That's good. I was wondering, why is it in Matthew 27, 25, most of the commentaries do not elaborate on that? Oh, his blood will be on us and our children. It's a curse that they put upon themselves that they wanted Jesus to be killed, and the problem here is that federal headship is that the male represents descendants. It also extends to the king or to the spiritual leaders of a nation, and so what they were doing is calling down a curse upon themselves and their descendants as representatives of that nation and those people. Now, the question then becomes, how legitimate and actually effective is such a curse? It does seem we could make the case. It does seem as though that is the case, that there's been some curse because the Jews have been persecuted for centuries.

So maybe there's something to it. I'm telling you, I went to Israel and I saw the Holocaust and look what's going on in Israel right now. It is so sad, but it seemed like everybody just passed right over these voices and say, but the cross-references that it gave made more sense than not saying anything at all. Do you think the theologians are afraid to say something? I don't know.

That's between them and God, if they're afraid to say it or not. What I would do if I was doing commentary, I would address this verse as I just had and say, there seems to be something to it, but we don't want to make too much out of it, but there you go. That kind of thing.

Lay it out better. So that's it. I'm looking at some cross-references and stuff like that.

The cross-references that were given, they all make sense, but nobody seems to say anything about the voice itself. Yeah, I hear you. I know what you're saying.

That all I can say is that I don't know what commentaries have said about it or how frequently they address it, but I don't know what the reasons would be to ask them why they don't address it as much, if that's what you found. Okay. All right. Okay.

Here's the music. Okay. Thank you. All right.

Well, God bless. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. We'll have, let's see, Jermaine on next, and after that, Chris from Ohio, and we will be right back. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right. Welcome back to the show. Bottom of the hour.

Give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Jermaine. That's right, Jermaine.

Hey, Jermaine. Welcome, buddy. You're on the air. Oh, hey, Matt. Great show today. Oh, good.

Thanks. So, what do you got, man? So, yeah, I just wanted to ask about the second commandment, and the reason I bring that up is just about every Mormon home I've ever been to has this picture of Jesus that is really this pristine, you know, this pristine, idealistic view of what they believe Jesus looked like. But it seems to be elevated to a point where it's almost like an altar, and I was just kind of curious, would that be kind of close to idol worship because not only do we not know what he looks like, but it seems like they really look to that as their model of who they really want to follow, who they worship. So I just kind of wanted to hear what you had to say about that. Yeah, it's a standardized view of Jesus in the Mormon Church.

You can tell I call it the Mormon Jesus, the blonde-haired, black, Caucasian, servitude. And so that's what's going on there. Now, they don't really believe he looks like that. I don't think they do.

I haven't heard that they actually think that, but it's just something that they've used. And of course, because they believe in a false god, then they are naturally and all the time constantly committing idolatry. They pray to their false god, you know, he's an exalted man from another world and things like this. He's not the God of the Bible. So they're idolaters all the time. So, you know, we could look at it different ways, but they are.

Okay. Okay, that makes a lot more sense. And I do think some people tend to worship that particular view because I actually saw some very racist language from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, and it was actually brought up by a former Mormon missionary, and she rebelled and she just started exposing a lot of what they actually believe. And there's some things that even I wasn't aware of that was pretty shocking, even I think Brigham Young recommended death for anyone in an interracial marriage or suggested that at least.

And yeah, really shocking stuff. So it might make sense that they would have that view of what they think Jesus looks like. Yeah, and the Mormon church early on was very racist.

So let's see, hold on a second, there we go. So yeah, you know, because in the pre-existence, the spirits that did not side with Jesus' plan or go with the devil's plan were cursed when they became humans, cursed to be born in black skinned bodies. And they couldn't, blacks couldn't hold the priesthood until they got a new revelation.

I think it was 81. So you know, it's a racist group, and then as political pressure and social pressure increased upon that church, then they get new revelations. It's just constant, and that's one of the ways to prove that it's not of God, is they get convenient revelations when the government's coming into Utah in the 1800s to take care of them because of their polygamy, and all of a sudden get a new revelation, polygamy is no longer necessary. And things like this have happened throughout the decades of the Mormon church. So they've changed the Bible, they've changed the Doctrine and Covenants, they've altered the Book of Mormon, so it's just not of God, you know, because they change that all the time. Right. Right, and to be fair, I will say that the people whose homes I were in, they were, some of them were minorities, and others were good people, they just, a lot of people were not aware of just what's in their own, you know, religious history, so I'm not trying to make a blanket statement about everyone.

Right. Well, a lot of people just don't know, and the Mormons keep changing, the Mormon church changes. They have the sacred temple ceremony, and it's changed. In fact, I'm looking at an article right now, not an article, but a work, how many pages, 98 pages, done by Gerald and Sandra Tanner on the evolution of the Mormon temple ceremony from 1842 to 1990. So it's been altered, and it's supposed to be a sacred ceremony that was actually performed in the original temple in Jerusalem. So that's what it's supposed to be, but they keep changing it.

It changed and changed and changed. So like I said, you know, the truth of God, he knows ahead of time what is to stand, and he works that way, and the revelation doesn't change, but cults, false religions, change, new revelations, new this, new that, that's convenient. And Joseph Smith would get these revelations, incidentally, we're just talking about this, kind of taking a tangent here, but he would get these revelations, you go to women, and he'd say, the Lord's told me that you and I need to be sealed. And you can imagine what that meant. And these women were already married, so they had to be sealed.

And so there were some real problems here. He didn't do it all the time, but he had over 30 wives. And if you want to know what a cult is, that started by a guy, he's got women, money, power. That's how a guy starts a cult.

I think a woman that started a cult, it would be, you have to get in a room and talk a lot. So that's why those don't work very well, I don't think. I don't know. I'm getting myself in trouble.

Yeah, you're probably in trouble somewhere in the country. That's right. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I have my other topic for tomorrow, I heard you just speak up, so we'll bring that tomorrow. But thanks a lot, man. Appreciate you. Thanks, buddy.

Sounds good. God bless. Okay. All right, now let's get to Chris from Ohio. Chris, welcome. You're on the air. Great. Greetings, Matt.

And no, I think you need to add, they need to get into a room and talk about their day a lot. Man, I'm in such trouble. You know, I love that. I love chauvinism. I think it's awesome. It's stupid fun. Anyway, sorry.

I got this cute pair, it's all this cute pair of shoes, and then blah, blah, blah. Anyway. Couple things. Are you familiar with Tom Wadsworth? He's just really taken a storm on YouTube. No. Who is he? Tom?

Okay. Well, over the next few days or next week, whenever you have time, please search him out on YouTube. What topic? He's an older man. Well, it's about the church, you have a little background on him. I forget his denomination, but he's in his 70s now, and just like in the last five years, last four years, he received his doctorate from Midwestern Baptist on the topic of the church.

No, that's not, I mean, this isn't, I'm sorry, the topic on what? On the church and how, let me back up a little bit. So he, basically his doctorate was on how the church has gotten worship wrong, or the church is operating in a wrong manner. So his claim is that the church is not so much to be vertical, but to be horizontal. The church, the function of the church is fellowship and edification, not so much worship. So anyway, I just want you to check him out online, Tom Wadsworth, W-A-D-S, like a wad of gum, Wadsworth.

I would like you to check him out, it's very interesting. Well, you know, what you said that he said is interesting, because it's something I've been saying for a long time, is that the purpose of the church is to equip the Christians for the work of ministry, as well as glorify God. And in church we worship, we praise God, we fellowship, we have these things, there's multiple needs, but the primary issue of equipping the saints, in my opinion, is most pastors are not doing that. They're not doing what they're called to do. That's my opinion.

Okay, but when you mean horizontal, how does that work out? Does that mean just edifying each other, not just that we're involved with ministry to reach out to others, to reach out to the law, but to lift each other up, to build each other up. Is that what you mean? Yeah, sure. Yeah, you know, like...

I totally agree. Yeah, so once when my wife had open heart surgery, our church came together, and Calvary Chapel, they came together, and man, they were such a blessing. They just came in. And that's one of the great things about the church. And we were going to move, and it never did happen, the Lord closed the door, but we thought the Lord was opening the door, and the church came in and helped paint and move stuff and do stuff and prep the house.

We put the house up for sale, and we told them later, we don't know what happened. We're still here, you know. But the church is awesome. And so, that's that.

But when I go to churches, and I look in their bulletins, I really don't see much options for training. We've got a break coming, important topic, so hold on, okay? We'll get back after this. Okay, sure. All right, buddy?

Okay. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. All right, last segment of the hour. Let's get on with Chris from Ohio. Chris, are you still there? I'm still here, sir.

All right. But I totally agree with you that the church, it's lost its compass somewhat. It's been that way for 1,500 years or more, but it always pains me when I've been involved with many churches. I became, I bent my knee to Christ in 99.

I've been Reformed in my theology since then. And that has nothing to do with what I'm about to say, but it's like every church I've been involved with, which is probably five now, it's just, you come in, we sing some praise songs, we hear a sermon, we talk a little bit, and we leave, and there might be some minimal home group fellowship, and it just pains me. I mean, it almost breaks my heart. This is not, it always bothers me, this is not the way it should be. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah.

You and I would get along a lot in our conversation about this, because it drives me crazy. The churches I attend are shallow, generally. Now, there was one I was attending a while back, and the pastor did a great job. He nailed the theology, the application, he did it.

It wasn't illustration story time. But they wanted church membership, and I'm just not going to do it. I don't believe in church membership, so I knew I could never be used there.

But yeah, I go to different churches, and I pay attention. I listen to this sermon, what's this sermon about? The wire hole. Go ahead. Why are you against membership, per se? I don't know. I don't know what it is. It's just I have a negative reaction to it.

I'm somewhat in that camp, but not totally. Yeah, I don't know. I think what it is, it reminds me, it reminds me of something. And maybe this is...

I don't know, I'll just tell you. Years ago, I was assistant pastor at a second church, and working on CARM, and doing all kinds of stuff, just writing, and studying, and had been doing apologetics for many years. And one of the elders came up, and he said, Matt, you need to put CARM under the eldership here at the church. Oh my gosh.

And I'm thinking, who are you? You know, in fact, this is a man I've been working on for years. And I said, well, what do you mean? He says, we're not trying to take it over, it's just that, you know, we want to make sure that the elders are involved with... And I said, well... Oh my gosh. What I actually said to him, very politely and respectfully, I said, no disrespect meant, I said, but I would have to train the elders on theology and apologetics enough for them to know that they could read through this stuff and give constructive criticism about it. Because most people, you know, they don't know, and I said, not to be disrespectful.

But I remember that conversation. And the idea of being in a church under their thumb, I don't know what it is, but it's like, I had to be there a certain time, I had to make sure I'm there all the time. I signed on the dotted line, I promised this, I promised that, now I'm bound, and it's just not what I want. I want freedom in Christ. I want the freedom to be able to go when I want and not, and just enjoy the people and the worship. I don't want to have the obligation.

Now, back under the law, and I don't want that. Maybe that's what it is for me, I don't know. But some people like it.

That's okay. Yeah, I was involved with an OPC church for about a year, a year and a half, and they were constantly asking me, when are you going to join? And I just told the pastors, it's too liturgical, you have too much control, that's the way I feel. Yeah, exactly.

But anyway, I don't want to be labored. The OPC, the only perfect church, we used to call it, right? Yeah, oh my goodness. I mean, I have a lot of respect for them.

Sure, they're good people. Absolutely. It's just not for me. I'm with you.

I'm with you. Please check out Tom Wadsworth. And one final thing, if you don't mind me asking, I know you were a PCA, you were ordained in the PCA church, correct?

No, I was ordained in an independent church, and the guy who ordained me was ordained by one of the professor pastors at Westminster Theological Seminary. Oh, okay, I thought you were involved with the PCA. I used to be. It was part of the falling out because you're a, I'm a partial cessationist, and I think you're kind of like that. Was that the tipping point? Uh-huh.

Yep. I said, I'm not convinced all the charismatic gifts have ceased. I believe God can still do what he wants when he wants. I don't speak in tongues. I don't worry about it. I don't do that. And they said, you can't be pastor here in the PCA anymore.

For that, which was a debatable issue. And it's quite a story, but yeah, it was very traumatizing because of the context. Do you have that story on the calm side? I don't know. You know, I don't know.

Maybe Charlie knows. Yeah, you know, because I'm trying not to make it about, you know, I do have my testimony on there and there's, people are shocked by what's in it in some areas, but, um, yeah, it was a, it was a very traumatizing, uh, time when I lost the pastorate and it was so traumatizing that one of the guys that I was, that was with me that day when I was cross-examined for two and a half hours, I don't even remember him being there. And he was with me all that day. I was so traumatized. I couldn't remember him. And the, what's really interesting is when we had to bury my son, my wife and our son, he was there also.

And I also couldn't remember him being there. So this is how equally traumatizing it was to me that it was so bad that I, I, I couldn't remember things. Oh, it was, it was big. It was a big thing. So I've never really written about it that I'm aware of.

I've talked about it, but it's, it's a long story of some other stuff, but, uh, it was tough. One last thing I have to say, I want the listeners to take this. One of my favorite quotes from Hodge, Charles Hodge, is that, and I does love Hodge, that he said, I thought it was so profound, like, the Lord used all the apostles and all the writers of sacred scripture, like each one was individual, each, this one was a drum, this one was a trumpet, this one was a tuba, this one was a guitar. And that's how I think the Christian life, I think that's how Christians are. Christian is going to have a different walk and a different view on things and it's all beautiful.

It all works within his glory, within his, within his will. Right. That's it.

That's exactly right. But that's it. Yeah. My gift, my wife said is being irritating.

So I'm perfecting it. Yeah. Well, you know, well, I did not twist my arm, my wife to become reformed that she is reformed now.

Same here. They were total Liberty, but she became the evidence. I got a lot of the comment. Yeah. I just, after 15 years of marriage, once I said to my wife, Hey, are you reformed? She goes, yeah. So when that happened, she goes, Oh, I don't know. I said, Oh, okay. All right.

If she said, would have said, no, I got, I just said, okay, whatever. Yeah, of course. That's okay.

That's okay. So please, I'm going to hang up, but please check out Tom Walzworth and comment on the farm side or here on the, on the radio show. You would please.

Yeah, I've just found his, uh, his website, check it out. It's fascinating. He has some very strong arguments.

Very strong. Good. Well, good. Maybe I'm going to really like them because I got some arguments and criticisms.

I've got some of the modern church too, but you know, I'm a whiner, so that's okay. That's right. Okay. Well, thanks Matt. Blessings to you. Okay. God bless buddy. All right. All right.

So let's get to Alberto from Georgia, Alberto welcome here on the air. Yes. Um, my question is, is it required repentance to receive eternal life or just believe in Jesus? Because they say that well, the gospel, John is evangelism, gospel, the other gospel, just the top of that.

Well, let's talk about this because it's an important topic. A lot of false religious systems say you must repent in order to become a Christian. And repentance is a change of mind, metanoeo in Greek for repentance. And so if you are lying and you read the law that says, don't lie, and then you repent, are you then keeping the law in order to be saved?

That's a question. Now repentance is necessary for salvation in the sense that it's necessary product of salvation and regeneration. If you don't repent, it's a sign you're not saved as a sign you're not regenerate. So in one sense we could say, yes, it's necessary for salvation as a sign and a manifestation of regeneration. On the other hand, it's not necessary for salvation in order to become a Christian or have your Christian faith based on your ability to stop sinning.

So you see what I'm saying? Because I was watching this video from the Grace Evangelical Society. They were discussing, you know, Michael Brown about the word repent. And he said, you know, basically you have to repent as the first word that you use in the Gospels. But then you have to basically continue to walk in the Lord, walk in the ways of Jesus. Now we've got a problem.

But then that's how to know you're secure, you're secure to hear that. Well, here's the thing. If someone says you have to maintain your repentance to maintain salvation, then that's work to righteousness.

So it all depends on how it's being said and what the intention is. We repent over all. But here's the thing. If we're repentant, why are we still confessing our sins and asking forgiveness? Because we have an intention of repentance, but the actuality of it in nuanced areas of our lives is often not real. So we know that we're supposed to repent. And we do. You know, like maybe I need to stop coveting other people's cars, let's just say, which I don't.

I don't care. But let's just say that's the case. Well, then I covet because I'm a sinner and then I repent over and over and over again. Is that what's necessary to become saved or stay saved?

Well, then that would be a problem. That's work to righteousness. So repentance is granted by God, 2 Timothy 2.25, but it is something that we also are intentioned to do in all areas of our lives, but we can't do it perfectly. So we stop the things that are major, you know, lying and murdering and pillaging and stealing and all this stuff.

We stop those. And then the minor things, so to speak, minor little arrogance in my heart, a little stubbornness in my heart, whatever it might be. And you don't repent of those very well. Does it mean you're not saved?

How far do we take this issue of repentance and what degrees and what subjects in order to say we're truly Christian? This can become a death nail to the truth of who Christ is and what he's done on the cross. We've got to be careful. Okay? Yeah. Yeah. Because mostly a lot of charismatic churches, they kind of push that requirement. We are supposed to repent.

Yeah, we are. I know that. But what I'm saying is that they're making it like a requirement for salvation, basically, you know? Because what if you don't believe the word believe in the present tense, but some people say, okay, you believe, I believe you believe in Jesus? Yeah. But do you believe daily in Jesus as the word present tense, the word believe, not just believe once, you know, you know what I'm saying? Right.

Because you've got to carry your cross daily, and you're denying yourself daily, but not just once, you know, except present. That's it. Going to heaven. That's it.

Yeah. So it's a nuanced thing, and it's worth discussing this, but we are supposed to repent and turn from our sins. That's what Jesus saved us for. And we go to Romans 6, 1-2, are we to continue in sin that grace may abound, may never be nowhere to turn from that.

That's what we're supposed to do, but it's not the cause of our salvation, and nor does it maintain our salvation. And there's the music. We've got to go. All right, buddy.

We're out of time. Okay. All right. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. God bless.

All right. God bless. Hey, folks, there you go.

There's the music. May the Lord bless you by his grace. We're back on the air tomorrow, and we'll talk to you then. We'll see you. Have a good evening. Thank you.