Packer Positive? (Hour 4)

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For home-owned solutions that fit your life well, Rocket can. Alrighty. You know, I lived in Philadelphia from 2016, or 2012 actually, all the way through 2019 before moving back to New York. And when I was there, you started to really see a fan base when it came to the Sixers and the Eagles. Start to say, okay, Carson Lentz is the guy, and I know that Carson Lentz got to a Super Bowl, but he got hurt that year, being the person that was an MVP candidate before he tore up his leg against the Rams.

So they made that decision to move on from Nick Foles and continue to go with Carson Lentz, which at the time, I actually thought was the right decision. Then also for the basketball team, Joel Embiid was always the face of that team, but the other complimentary piece was Ben Simmons. And the one thing with Ben Simmons that we knew he needed to eventually do was try to put some work and develop his craft a little bit more, especially when it came to shooting the basketball. Because the guy's a multiple time All-Star, guy is a really good defensive player, but in a postseason series, there was no other threat other than Embiid because he knew Ben Simmons wasn't going to shoot.

And even if he got to the free throw line, he was not going to do well from the charity strike. It's kind of crazy that where you sit here now in 2022, Ben Simmons we know is no longer on the Sixers, and the reason why he's no longer there is because the Sixers actually started to give him some criticism and he couldn't take it. And when it comes to Carson Wentz, he's now on his third NFL team. And right now they're rolling with Taylor Heinecky instead of Carson Wentz, they could use whatever excuses they want.

Oh yeah, you know, he's still recovering from the injury, all that. Even if he was healthy, and if they weren't using that as an excuse, there is no way that right now you could justify starting Carson Wentz over Taylor Heinecky with the way that Taylor Heinecky has helped galvanize that locker room and help turn that chip around even though his stats have not been great. Carson Wentz, when he was the quarterback, 2-4.

Taylor Heinecky gets inserted into the lineup with a team that was on life support for this year. 3-1 has helped move them back into the playoff conversation at 5-5 and make their no weak link right now in the NFC East when you look at the success of a team like the Eagles at 8-1. You look at what the Giants are doing at 7-2. The Dallas Cowboys lost a tough one to the Packers. They're sitting at 6-3. But right now, the future of Wentz and Simmons is what?

And I don't even think it's that long of a conversation. Like, Ben Simmons, I expect nothing out of. Really, the rest of the way, and I think it's going to be one of those careers that you look back at and you go, what could have been? What should have been? And you see from Shams Harania that there is frustration building within the Nets organization around Ben Simmons' availability and level of play. Like, Heinecky, have you ever seen a least surprising story?

No. Because what were people expecting out of Ben Simmons? It's like when you traded for him. All right, James Harden didn't want to be there.

I get it. So you get rid of James Harden. You get Ben Simmons back. You could put him in a defensive role with the Nets. But then Kyrie Irving has all his problems, too. And he's never reliable as well. That's like the biggest problem with the Nets.

They're asking all these people to do things that you can't count on, you can't trust. And if Ben in Philadelphia, where they patted his behind for years after years after years, and I would be in media rooms, I would be talking to, at the time, the president of the Sixers and Scott O'Neill on this show. He's got to develop a jump shot. And they would always defend him. And the moment Embiid and Doc Rivers finally said, no, no, no, we can't take this anymore, then Ben couldn't handle it. And he didn't want to put in the work.

Now, he'll be the first person in the all season. Oh, I'm in the gym. I'm doing the work. I'm doing all that.

Let me post the Instagram shooting over, you know, people. But come game time, you never see those results translate. So I have no expectations, even with how young Ben Simmons is. And even though he's had success in this league, I have no expectations for Ben Simmons the rest of the way. Why would I believe that he's going to be able to turn his game around? Even though he's been a three time All-Star, he's only 26 years old. Like, he's so young. He's still in his prime.

But it looks like now in two organizations, patience is wearing thin with Ben Simmons. Now, on the other hand, you look at Carson Wentz. Here's the difficult part with Carson Wentz, because you could be a bad quarterback in this league. And then last in the league for like 10 more years, like Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl. There were conversations about Joe Flacco being elite or not.

You know, and this is like maybe like to the extreme example where this guy has had a lot of success. But Joe Flacco has been a backup quarterback now for the last few years. You know, Joe Flacco is 37.

Joe Flacco started games this year in the NFL. When was his last productive season, really, when you look back at it? It's like we're talking like 2016?

2017, maybe? That's a long time in the NFL. You look at a guy like Matt Schaub, right? Like he was a starter for a little bit, then a backup quarterback forever.

Like he recently just retired. So you could be a backup quarterback for a long time in the NFL. I don't know though, Ryan, yet, and I don't think he has, if Carson Wentz has realized that, hey, this is on him and that he's not good. And sometimes that ego is what makes someone be so great in that drive to get them into a spot where you go from North Dakota State to the second overall pick. But in Philadelphia, it was always someone else's fault. In Indianapolis, oh, the whole team didn't show up against the Jaguars, and they made you the scapegoat, but you didn't do your job. And then the commanders gave you a chance, and you are 2-4? And then the other guy comes in when you get hurt, and he's 3-1? Saves the season? Like for Carson Wentz, if you're a team, and I know everyone looks back at that Super Bowl-winning season, when for the first 12, 13 games, whatever it was, he was great.

It was unbelievable. And I used to be a big-time believer in Carson Wentz, but everything I used to think Carson Wentz was, he's been the complete antithesis of. So for Carson, like Ben Simmons, I have no expectations. I just don't think he's ever going to be this great player. Like, could he be on a team and be a defensive guy?

Like, yeah, sure, whatever. You just don't know when that guy's ever going to want to play. For Carson Wentz, the body's been banged up, and I wonder how this situation, if it continues to go in favor of Taylor Ham Heinecke, I wonder how Carson Wentz is going to handle that. Because whenever someone gets on his turf, like Nick Foles or Jalen Hurts, starts to get ugly and starts to become a problem in the locker room. Like for Carson, I just wonder if he could handle being the backup. And so far, with the evidence that I've seen, I haven't, but if he can, he could go be in the league for the next 10 years as a backup quarterback. But the days of him being a relied upon starting quarterback, I think are over.

I don't think I know are over. And you would have thought that would have ended after Indianapolis when Frank Reich was his guy in Philly and then demanded for him to go and get him in Indianapolis. But still, people look back because how many times do offensive-minded coaches or just any coach in the NFL, because Rivera's not an offensive-minded coach, but coaches in the NFL where they go, oh yeah, I can fix someone. Our staff could fix someone because we saw these glimpses years ago. We're now talking years ago. Like I've been here for four years here.

And I worked in Philly. Like that's a long time. We're talking about people's lives that have changed significantly since there. But those evaluations still exist in your back of your brain because how good he was for that 10, 13 game stretch. And people think they can maybe get him back if they can keep him healthy. But you have a roster with the commanders that's like, not a bad roster.

Now you look at that roster, Terry McLaurin, Jahan Dotson, Samuel, Brian Robinson, Antonio Gibson, like the defensive players, like there's talent on that team. But for Carson, it always was mystifying to me that the commanders looked at him and said, yeah, we're going to swap twos, get the lesser of twos and then trade two third round picks that one could be a two. After what they just saw in Indianapolis and what market were you bidding against?

Like who were you bidding against? So I think, Ryan, the best way to say this, the Ben Simmons conversation is easy. Like until I see something, I'm just not going to believe it. Because he's just, you can't rely on him. For Carson, I think it's clear that he's not a starter anymore in this league. But will he be willing to accept that to be put in a backup role and then eventually get another opportunity to start by product of injury or poor play from whoever that incumbent starter is that you're going to be sitting behind?

And then what do you do with that opportunity? Because if he wants to be, Ryan, you would think Carson Wentz could be a backup quarterback in this league for like the next 10 years. But if he doesn't want to be that, I don't know what wants to be the backup. But if you can't tolerate being put in that position and being put in that tag, then you got to start thinking about like, hey, you have all your money.

Maybe just retire and say, OK, I don't need this lifestyle and do something else. I mean, like you mentioned, it's kind of like a mindset, right? Like even if you are going to a position where you have to compete for the job and you lose out and you're the backup, like you have to be able to have a mentality where, hey, I'm going to help whoever's a starter and just kind of be the rock for them. I don't think Carson really could do that. That's one of the biggest knocks on him is that he's just not a good teammate. He's not a good leader. And so that's already a knock against you. I don't see now we really have to swallow your pride, go into a situation and back up either an established veteran or a young rookie that they're trying to develop.

It's not a really good situation. And that's why I know it may have seemed confusing why I threw out Joe Flacco. You're like, oh, dude, the guy won a Super Bowl match job who had a big contract in this league. Like those guys had a change in mentality. Not that that job was ever like this great quarterback, but at one point he was involved in the trade and was viewed as the guy. And for Joe Flacco, like he was the guy he won a Super Bowl. Those guys were able to change with the way then they were viewed in the game and they had long careers as backup quarterbacks. Like Carson, you're still young.

It's tough because you're still young. It wasn't that long ago that everyone was saying, oh, you're the next great quarterback. You're the guy. You're the face of a franchise. And then, OK, you had your falling out in Philadelphia. You got another opportunity. And after one year, Jim Mercy demanded for you to get out of the organization. And now. I wonder how you compartmentalize this where.

You work two and four, like what excuses do you say now? You look at Taylor Ham Heinecke. It's not as if he's the tallest, the strongest, the most athletic, the the best quarterback. Like Carson Wentz has more physical tools.

But he wasn't winning like Taylor Heinecke has been winning at three and one. So I'll be very curious. And they have the out of using the injury as an excuse right now. And you even heard Ron Rivera kind of do that, like, OK, you know, he's off to the side doing work. He's not ready to get activated yet.

All that stuff. That's all fine. That's how you want it. But you can only use that excuse for so long because we know what the timetable is. You could only maneuver around that timetable for a little bit and maybe Taylor Ham Heinecke. Comes back down and doesn't play that great.

And then there's an opportunity for cars like I'm not rule that out. But if you get another opportunity to start for Carson, it's really your last stand. Like, that's really your last chance. Because your career, like we thought going to Washington was really his last chance.

Now you are on the 18th hole. Because if you get that opportunity, if they pull Heinecke and you get inserted back into the fold, because if you don't play well, how could you be a team this offseason that brings in Carson Wentz and says, oh, Carson Wentz is good at we expect Carson Wentz to start games for us this year? You can't.

Unless you're taking it, you can't. Because you guys are not good. Yeah, I'd say he's already in the clubhouse. 19th hole.

Ordering a drink. Because you look at the last three years. But I'm just saying the time of this season. Like, not that I expect him to change the narrative and flip the script down the stretch, but if he gets to go start three, four games and he in a small sample size plays great. You know, maybe he's back as their starting quarterback next year with the commanders.

I wouldn't expect it, but that's really the last chance right now. Like, logically. Yes.

If I'm the like not separating the business side of it, not separating what what the commanders just did. I would say you shouldn't even be back next year. You have a young, good team. And for years, right, Ron Rivera said, oh, we're going to build the team and get the quarterback. And this is the guy that gave up draft capital for.

Stupid. And I was a little bit ahead of the curve because I used to be this big Carson Wentz believer. And he let me down. That's why last year I was like clowning you.

And I was basically telling you from the start it wasn't going to work because I know what he is. And I never thought it would get tripled down. Like, you could I could understand at least the Colts doubling down last year.

Because Reich knows him and his back was up against the wall. But after seeing what happened in not only Philly at the end, but then Indianapolis, the commands are like, we're going to trade draft capital for this guy. And it kind of they get what they deserve here. Yes, you're winning games now, but it's not what the guy that you traded for.

And it should even be more of a sign. Hey, we really messed up on this one. We made a bad decision when the XFL quarterback is better than you.

Maybe it's time to actually maybe that's where you could go. Which XFL quarterback you're talking about. So, honey, he was in the XFL. Oh, gotcha. You're talking about him right now.

Yes. Yeah, he's definitely one of the. Yeah, I gotcha. That's the reason why I was confused there. I saw some draft today with these leagues.

XFL was the XFL. So I was thinking maybe there was a guy that got drafted that you were liking. That would be. Oh, no, no.

Sorry. But maybe that's what Carson Wentz can go next year. He'd be the starter in the XFL. He could start.

No doubt about that. The AAF comes back maybe one of those other leagues. Like he could dominate spring football. There you go, Carson. I would just retire at that point. Well, wouldn't you?

Yes. No, I get to be a backup quarterback for the next 10 years. You already made all the money in the world. You already have enough money to set up you, your kids, your kids, kids, your kids, kids, kids for life. Would you want to go through getting a nice salary and being the backup quarterback for 10 years?

And I have to think about that every day of, yeah, I'm the backup quarterback. Maybe there will be a chance or is it just, hey, I made my money. It was a quick dip in the toe in the water in the NFL, a little bit of success. And then it was a failure. And just go kind of start something else.

I mean, it was me out of tire and enjoy my life, actually. But, you know, I'm sure Carson Wentz still thinks he needs another chance. He's, you know, one snap away from, you know, getting back to MVP level, like. So he's quarterback of the Carolina Panthers next year is what you're saying? If they are, the sad part is like if you do say work across my side next year, Panthers are fine. Don't do that. Don't do that. I on the list.

I love WF and see that car. Quarterback rehab. That's what it's been. That's not nice. My pals, Mac and Bone don't have to go through any more pain than they've been Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnell.

Like you got to keep the conveyor belt going. Bring in Sam or Carson Wentz. Maybe go be the backup in Denver. They're always going to bring in quarterbacks. If you're across from us.

I mean, it's actually not the worst place in the world. The way Russ is playing. Russ thinks up the joints that Carson Wentz gets another opportunity.

How about that? Zach Gelb shows CBS sports radio. To catch up later. There's a lot to listen to.

So get started and download the free Odyssey app today. Let me take Rich in Chicago next up on the show. Rich, how you been? Good evening.

What do you got? I haven't wavered. I told your producer, I think that the Eagles losing is good.

Get that elephant off the back or running the table. Yeah, I don't think anyone actually thought they were going to go undefeated, but I did not see them losing to the commanders. I thought that loss would probably come or maybe like two losses a little bit later in the season.

Well, here's the deal, though. From all, you know, we all follow the Eagles here. I've been a big Eagle fan my whole life. And in Chicago, that's kind of easy when you have to watch the Bears. In fact, you guys are coming here to play the Bears. That's like playing the junior varsity.

But I won't get into that. The odds, though, even after the loss. You probably know this, but your fans should be really happy for this opportunity. They're 11 to 1 to win the NFC, which I think is a steal, and 25 to 1 to win the Super Bowl. That's as of today.

Yeah. Here's the way that I would look at the Eagles season. And I always I love this stuff when people didn't think I'm an Eagles fan just because of how much I talk about the time I lived in Philadelphia. You know, I don't root against the team, but so it's not like my team, the Eagles are going to play the Bears this year. It's you know, I'm a Patriot fan. But with that being said, like I look at the NFC this year.

It's so open. So not that home field advantage is everything. We saw the Bengals go into Kansas City and win last year in a playoff game. But if you are able to get a home field advantage in Philadelphia, which I think the Eagles will be able to do, that's going to be tough. Look how great the Vikings have been this year.

They ate them on. Vikings went into Philadelphia week to get their doors blown off. So I think now, like the best way to say this is when I look at pressure, I think there's pressure on the Bills at Super Bowl or bus. I think there's pressure on Kansas City because they were talking dynasty after winning their Super Bowl the last two years.

They haven't won. After that, there's not a lot of pressure on these teams. And I think it matters about what the expectations were, even expectations change and you you move the goalposts throughout the season. But before the year, you go through these teams in the NFC and the AFC too. It's like dolphins, it was playoffs or bus. They're going to make the playoffs. Am I not going to sit there and tell you, oh, the Dolphins have to go into Super Bowl this year? No. The Ravens, OK, a little bit of pressure, but they don't have a number one wide receiver for Lamar Jackson.

Tennessee. No one thinks Ryan Tannehill is going to go win the Super Bowl. Justin Herbert just get to the playoffs with the Chargers. No one's thinking they're winning the Super Bowl and the NFC. Yeah, you got to take advantage of the opportunity. But at the Eagles losing the NFC championship game, am I going to slam them? No. So can they play more freely now because they're they don't have the pressure of going undefeated?

I don't think that was a big storyline yet. All the Eagles are undefeated, like you said it, but it wasn't. Oh, are they going to win this week? They're going to lose this week.

Like what's going to happen? Is the perfect season to be over? It wasn't the same hype as you've seen before in the past. And different, but like with the 07 Patriots, right, that one Indianapolis team that had a chance to go undefeated as well. And then with how they approached late in the season, it's it's totally different because going into this year, people just looked at the Eagles and thought they could win the NFC East. That was about it. So is it open?

Yeah. Because you look right now, your seven playoff teams would be the Eagles, the Giants, the Cowboys, the Vikings. Tampa Bay, Seattle and San Francisco. So can you say the Eagles are the favorite? Yeah, the Eagles are the favorite. But if they don't get there, is it, oh my God, I can't believe the Eagles didn't get there?

Absolutely not. It's weird, Ryan. Eleven weeks into a season. There's not a lot of pressure on some of these teams. And I wonder where we are a month from now, because that's when narratives are really start to pick up, because it's so it's been so we anoint one team, we latch onto them for two weeks and then they fall. Then we anoint another team, then they fall. There really hasn't been that consistent team other than Buffalo before the start of the season. And now they're starting to fall the last two weeks and they get back into it.

Absolutely. But I would say the pressure, it's on Buffalo and it's on Kansas City this year. Those are like the two teams that I think everyone would say are the great teams, but they haven't always showed on the field at times this year. I guess one thing we can say when it comes to pressure is just like you mentioned the Dynasty talk. My thing is everyone when they win a Super Bowl talks Dynasty.

But it's like it's a yearly. The Eagles have talked about in 2017. The Rams talked about it last year. The Bucks talked about in 2020. When you have Mahomes and he was anointed that next great quarterback, there's a different feel. Like, yes, every team talks Dynasty when they win. But then can you actually envision it?

We had conversations on this network every show. How many Super Bowls is Patrick Mahomes going to win? Is he going to, you know, at the time, Brady only had six. Like, is he going to catch Brady? You know, is he going to put him in a position to do that? Is he the next greatest quarterback of all time?

Like, those were conversations that had. And there was a narrative about Andy Reid for a long time that he could win the big game, that he won a game. All I'm saying is this year is so wide open that if the Chiefs don't win this year, it's disappointing.

It's absolutely disappointing. There's no doubt about it. The most pressure is on Buffalo because it was Super Bowl about before the start of the season. But since Kansas City has shown that not only they could thrive but flourish without Tyreek Hill.

It's never been more open than this. That'd be a bad job by Kansas City. They don't win the entire thing this year. And they probably are the team that you trust the most right now.

At least the way that I look at it. It is Zach Gilp's show on CBS Sports Radio. Real quickly, I want to play you. This was Christian Watson with us yesterday. And I'll make a point off this.

About two minutes of audio. But this was Christian Watson on chemistry with Aaron Rodgers. And talk a little bit about the field of Packers right now. Where's your chemistry at with him as that continues to be a work in progress as this being your first year with the Packers?

You know, I think it's really good. I think that obviously I'll continue to build that trust with him. Build that connection with him. You know, I know that he has faith in me obviously. You know, being able to come back to me. You know, whether things were going good or going bad.

And I think it's just going to continue to rise. And obviously flourish as the season continues to progress. Jeremy Fowler from ESPN wrote that some of the young wide receivers have been painted as scapegoats for the Packers' problems. Despite Aaron Rodgers' absence during OTAs, which isn't sitting well with some there. What do you have to say on that? And was there at all a little bit of a rocky relationship at the beginning with some of the younger receivers? You being one of them and Aaron Rodgers? No, I mean, I don't really pay attention.

I don't really think any of us rookies pay attention to what's going on in the media or people's opinions on anything or misunderstandings of what is said. I mean, I think that, you know, we're in there. We're in the facilities. We're practicing.

We're around 12, you know, for hours the majority of the day. So, I mean, we already have kind of a sense and a feeling of, you know, what he's feeling. And, you know, we never got any bad energy or bad vibes from him. So, you know, nothing negative to say about that. This team getting a win.

It was much needed. What is the vibe around this team right now at four and six? I mean, we're just, we're just head down, continue to work, continue to prepare. I mean, we're just, like I said before, I mean, we're just taking it week by week. You know, we know that each game going forward just means a heck of a lot to us.

And, you know, we've got to continue to just strive to go one and O each and every week. I know we talked about your three touchdowns, but in a game like that against the Cowboys, you're at Lambeau Field, you get to do a Lambeau leap. You have all those fans chanting your name and you're number one. Just what were you feeling during that entire game when that's a game you guys had to have and you had your best performance of the season? I mean, it was euphoric for sure. I mean, it definitely felt like there was, you know, a weight lifted off my shoulders. Obviously, you know, it was a really big game for, you know, confidence myself and just, you know, having that confidence with, you know, with everybody on the squad. But I mean, obviously it was it was a hard fought win for all of us, you know, including myself.

So, I mean, it was it was it was great. So the back end part of that, as that was Christian Watson with this yesterday, who had a great game against the Cowboys, the three touchdowns, four receptions for 107 yards. We know that he's a second round pick and first game of the season drops the touchdown down the right sideline against Minnesota. Roger's not happy with the receivers.

There's been that narrative. He's been dealing with injuries. Finally, having that game, he said he felt like the weight was lifted off his shoulder. Now, it's one thing to say that in the moment, but are you able then to elevate that into now the second half of the season?

You be the player that they thought they were getting when they drafted you in the second round. And there's not many positives that you could take from this Packers season. And when week 11 kicks off tomorrow night, if they lose, it goes back to where you were going into that Dallas game of this team's not going to be a playoff team.

Now, if you win, it's OK. Even after this miserable start, they got to five and six. Then there's a big game coming up against Philadelphia on Thanksgiving weekend. Let's see what the Packers are made out of, because they could still mathematically be alive, not going to win the division for a wildcard spot. I don't think the Packers are making the playoffs, but you can at least keep that hope alive. But if it goes the way that I think most of us believe it's going to go this year for the Packers, where they're not going to make the playoffs, bare minimum, the only way you could spin something out of this negative situation into a positive is if you do have Christian Watson flourish. Because if he plays great down the stretch, that's a guy that you could rely on going into next year. And Rogers is going to be back next year. And maybe then that's the guy you go into the season saying, OK, we have him. He's our number one wide receiver. We've got to add another piece to this fold because, Ryan, we were talking about this a few weeks ago when Watson didn't have this game. And you've seen the up and down play of Romeo Dobbs and him getting hurt. Lazard Rogers liking him, but him not being a great player. Randall Cobb, we know, being older and getting hurt. It was almost as if this was such a wasted season. But then you weren't able to have a silver lining of, OK, at least you got a young player, another player to show maybe they could be a force next year. If Watson continues to do this, there is your one saving grace of the season if it continues to go the way that we both think it is that they're not going to make the playoffs. And Ryan, that's obviously a huge if as well. Big if it's a great touch on game. So, you know, a few drops still, you know, was not on the same page. Aaron Rodgers is still a long way to go.

But you're right. If you can at least bare minimum, forget playoffs or anything else, you can come out of this season for the Packers. OK, we feel really good about Christian Watson as our our guy, the guy. For yes, for a very lost season in a way that in a year that did not go as you expected, you know, starting in August.

So, Wayne, let me ask Marco Belletti this just real quickly, totally shifting gears here. NFC wise, is there any pressure on any of these NFC teams because of how open this thing is? Like, do you look at them and go, OK, this team loses, they're going to get blasted in the playoffs? Yeah, the Eagles. You can't have the start that they had and be as dominant as they were and then go into the playoffs and fizzle out.

Well, let me just ask you this. With how good they were being 8-0, if let's say they get to an NFC title game, they lose 28-24 to the Vikings. Are we really killing the Eagles? I mean, probably not, but I mean, if they have a game at home in the NFC championship and lose to a team that they dominated during a regular season.

Yeah. I mean, look, grand scheme of things, it's like, well, you know, you didn't come into the season thinking Super Bowl or bust. Yeah, but when you're in the moment and you have the opportunity to actually capitalize and grab a title which are hard to get and you never know when you're going to get in that spot again.

Then, yeah, then you've got to be able to take advantage of what's in front of you. And for the Eagles, that would be the situation in the spot. For me, the two teams that are under the most pressure this year, we all could agree it's Buffalo. Buffalo was deemed the team before the start of the season. It's Super Bowl or bust. Anything short of winning a Super Bowl this year is a disaster for the Bills.

Yep. I brought it up before you came in here and we've been talking about this throughout the show. I think there's pressure on Kansas City because they showed they could obviously survive without Tyreek Hill.

They were there. And Ryan said this, every team talks Dynasty after they win a Super Bowl. But it's different when you have Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid.

This year, you talk about opportunity. It's not going to be more wide open than this year for Kansas City. There's no really great team that we're all looking at right now saying, wow, they're unbeatable this year in the NFL. You're right because it's every year for the Chiefs. They're that good.

Yeah. When you have Mahomes, when you have Reid and when you have that roster, that does change over at times. But it's still the same concept of Mahomes, Kelsey, Reid. You still got the biggest pieces there every year that they don't win a title is a major disappointment. They're Super Bowl or bust just because they're that good. Just because you have Matrimony Holmes right there. I mean, look, have they gotten to that new dynasty?

No. But they're in the same situation the Patriots were with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. Any year they didn't bring home the Lombardi was a wasted season because they're capable. Every year, they're capable of doing that. They really have not been slammed, which they won a Super Bowl, then they lost to the Bucks. Remember, their entire offensive line was banged up.

So that was the excuse. Last year, the second half of the title game, few people started to turn. But it's like if you then lose three in a row, the conversation will start. And I think Mahomes is going to win multiple Super Bowls in this league. Well, we said about Rogers. Oh, and he won.

Oh, yeah. He'll get another and the guys never back to another Super Bowl. So you're definitely going to start to hear. And I'm glad you mentioned Rogers. And I know you guys are talking about Watson and everything. You talk about a team with disappointment to me. It's any time the Packers don't get themselves in a spot, because I'll be fair this whole year I've been hearing about Aaron Rodgers doesn't have enough weapons. And I'm I feel like I'm 50 million dollars. You have Aaron Rodgers. Yeah. I want to hear about who's not on the outside. I don't care.

Make them better. You're Aaron Rodgers. I never heard so many excuses for a player who is at the at some point in my life. I actually said Aaron Rodgers, the best quarterback, hands down, that I saw just the way he played. I know Tom Brady. We know he's the go of the championship. I get when you watch Aaron Rodgers and just all the things that he's able to do on the field.

You go, man, this might be the greatest quarterback my eyeballs have ever seen. And we make excuses year after year after year. I never hear that with Patrick Mahomes when guys aren't there. I never hear that about Tom Brady.

Well, what about weapons on the outside? Who the hell cares? You're Aaron Rodgers. Make somebody around you better. And really, to me, if I'm the Packers, I'm ready to vomit with the wasted season that they had this year. And for a while, some of the excuses were valid. Like with Rodgers, you know, defense was horrible. The collapse against the Seahawks wasn't his fault. Yeah, that was a pass. But the last two years, NFC title game, Brady throws three picks in the second half. You get the ball back multiple times, down the score, three and out, three and out, down five. And last year, one touchdown drive that they had in the beginning of the game against San Francisco, you did nothing.

And all I kept hearing about was what, the block field goal, the block punt, whatever. I don't care. At some point, make some plays. And again, it's not like I'm disparaging. We know how good Aaron Rodgers is. That's the point.

If you're that good, at some point, make some plays and elevate around you the talent that's there because this is nonsense. And it's not even, if they didn't have these weapons and let's say they got to the playoffs and they lost, like he's not going to get blasted. But the fact that they may not even make the playoffs, he couldn't even prevent the ship from sinking this year. It's a brutal, brutal loss. And again, look, the body language is no good. The comments that he makes, awful.

But I mean, this constant like looking around, well, what do you want to do? He doesn't have Devante Adams. Oh, I'm sorry. To be a high caliber offense, you have to have the best wide receiver on the planet. Like, how does that work out? Not really working out well for the Raiders.

I mean, it doesn't make any sense. Like, well, what do you expect him to do? I expect him to make the guys that are around him better. I see a lot of teams in the NFL right now that have got guys that are wide receivers that are basically practice squads. And they're making plays.

I know I'm going back to 2006, but Brady got to an AFC title game with Doug Gabriel and Reshay Caldwell. Again, even teams that are just, look, and I don't want to put it all in the look, the Giants wide receiving corps has been a total disaster zone. And Daniel Jones is not a guy that's elevating play. Like, they're winning in different ways. But they're finding ways to win with guys that are off practice squads. People that have, and it's not like, well, they've been there for a year. They're learning on the fly Wednesday and Thursday and then make it, what, a first down here and there on Sunday? Aaron Rodgers can't figure out through six weeks, eight weeks, ten weeks training camp, how to figure out four or five guys to get some plays on Sunday? You can't put the football in their hands. It's not like they're dropping the ball constantly all over the field.

There are just times where you just, hey, sorry, man. You're that good? Figure it out.

There's a lot to listen to. So get started and download the free Odyssey app today. Give us a call right now. 855-212-4CBS. Wrap it up shop. It is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio.

Could always give us a follow on Twitter and Instagram at Zach Gelb, Z-A-C-H-G-E-L-B. It's time to end the show out in style. Let's get to the closing bell. Another day is in the books and we're taking stock of the sports world. It's time to find out who's up and who's down.

Let's end the day right and hit the closing bell. Only on the Zach Gelb show. I love the story of C.J. McCollum. Now with the Pelicans, of course, getting traded there last year. Last night in a 113-102 victory over the Memphis Grizzlies, he had 30 points and nine assists. Tonight, the Pelicans are back in action against the Bulls.

The Pelicans are beating up on the Bulls 95 to 78 as they're about to enter the fourth quarter. And in the contest so far tonight, C.J. McCollum, 19 points as they enter the fourth quarter. So give C.J.

McCollum a stock up. We continue in the NBA. What Shay Gillis Alexander is doing right now is just absolutely ridiculous. Now he's on an awful team, we know that, with the Oklahoma City Thunder.

But the way that he is playing is really, really crazy. You want to look back from the game against the Pistons, and that was on November 7th. 33 points, then 39 against Milwaukee, 20 against Toronto, 37 against the Knicks, 37 against the Celtics. And tonight in a win against the Washington Wizards, 121 to 120, he was 14-21 from the field, 2-3 from 3, 12-17 from the charity stripe, had six rebounds, seven assists, and 42 points, only two turnovers. Heck of a job, heck of a run here by Shay Gillis Alexander. Give him a stock up. Alrighty. Dennis Allen.

Hickey, can you explain this one to me? So the guy's saying that Jameis Winston is probably never going to be 100% healthy this year. But he's healthy enough to practice, and healthy enough on game day to be the backup. But for whatever the reasons are, he's not healthy enough to be the starter, and it's going to continue to be Andy Dandy Dalton, who to no surprise is no longer a good quarterback. After what you just saw the last few weeks, and you were originally someone that advocated to get Andy Dalton onto the field, and I'm not saying that you were wrong in the moment, but with how this is played out now, what am I missing here that Jameis Winston isn't actually going to be the starter the rest of the way for at least the next game for the New Orleans Saints? I would say the tank is in, but I don't think it really matters to be honest.

And you're also right, it's a good point. No reason to tank, we don't have a first round pick. I don't know. Unless Dennis Allen is working undercover, and he's guaranteed him a job next year, when Jonathan Gandon probably leaves to get a head coaching job, he'll go coach the defense.

He goes, alright, we'll just get a good pick, spouse for my next team. Otherwise, I got nothing for you. I don't know, maybe years ago, those crab legs that Jameis Winston took were supposed to go to Dennis Allen, and that challenge is just fighting him ever since.

That's the best I have for you. Because this makes no sense. At this rate, you would think, okay, you know, their next game is this weekend against the Rams, like the Rams stink, just throw Jameis Winston out there. And even if he's at 80%, do you even care? It can't get worse than Andy Dalton, and I'm sure he would love the opportunity if Andy Dalton gets hurt. You know, maybe they go to Taysom Hill. Maybe it is Taysom Hill.

I was gonna say, I hate to say it, but I mean... Probably is, at this rate. Is Taysom Hill even the worst option?

Probably not. Just run the ball with him. Well, that one game where they, a few weeks ago when they won against Seattle, remember that? That was all because Taysom Hill went off in the game. He was the one man machine.

You know what? Give us a stock up to Sean Payton. He knew when to get out, but give a stock down to Dennis Allen for not starting Jameis Winston. And that's the Zach Gelb show, a condensed version of the closing bell today. I always love when we just go to Marco and Marco goes off. Marco's a good ranter. Very good ranter. But he went off tonight. Gets himself worked up. Like, looking at the clock, I'm like, uh oh. We're not gonna have a lot of time for the closing bell.

So, that's fine. Whenever we get a good Marco rant, I'll take it from El Capitan. Hot take hickey, thank you, thank you to each and every one of you for calling, listening, and tweeting. Big thanks to Brendan Tobin for stopping by and Yogi Roth. We'll be back tomorrow on the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio starting at 6 p.m. Eastern, 3 p.m. There's a lot to listen to, so get started and download the free Odyssey app today.