Is Russell Wilson a Hall of Famer? (Hour 2)

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Additional terms apply. Visit Instacart.com to get free shipping. Visit Instacart.com to get free shipping. Take me through what you're feeling today. And first off, congratulations. That's tremendous.

Thank you. Um, yeah, eight years. It's been one hell of a road, but, um, it feels like at times, it feels like it goes by really fast.

And then other times it feels like it's been forever. Well, my life is better than it's ever been. And, um, you know, I owe everything to my sobriety and everything that I have materialistically and emotionally, spiritually is all because I'm sober.

Your story is so, uh, well public and you do an incredible job sharing it. Um, you were one point facing 25 years to life. Uh, you had three overdoses. Just what was the moment for you where you, you knew that you needed help, but then you started to say, okay, not only do I need to go get that help, but then it started to work and you started to move in that right direction. So in 2015 on Christmas day, I had my last overdose and I went to detox. I woke up in the hospital on the 26th of December. I was super sick.

I woke up and not dope sick. I got high one more time, naturally. And I went to detox that night.

And, um, so my sober date is like the 27th of December, which is today, eight years ago. Wow. Um, I just was sick and tired, man. I just couldn't do it anymore. You know, I've, I went through the ringer, psych wards, crisis centers, homeless shelters, hospitals, detoxes, rehabs, therapy communities, jails, institutions. The only thing I didn't do was prison. I never did like a long stretches of prison.

Thank God. Um, and I just was, I just couldn't do it anywhere. I was, I was beat up. I was tired and I was, you know, I was at a bottom and I was desperate. So I just went to detox and started taking the suggestions of people that have, you know, been there and done that. And, um, I did some, you know, some work and started trusting in God and, uh, things started working out for me.

Jared Gordon, uh, here with us. And it's great to hear where you are today. You know, a lot of times I say addiction is a disease and you know, I like to emphasis that in a conversation because sometimes people just look at addicts as people that are weak, but it takes a lot of strength to go get that help and then continue to be, uh, someone that is a voice for a lot of people that need to hear a certain voice. So I'm just wondering, uh, what is it like now, day to day for you? It's, it's great that you're eight years sober, but what is the day to day like grind for Jared Gordon individually now? Well, my life, you know, my life's changed a lot, so I'm married. Um, you know, I have a dog, I don't have children, but you know, I wake up every day and I have responsibilities and things that I have to take care of. And obviously I have to train.

So I'm training, you know, things in between. I obviously, uh, in order to have a wife, you need to be present and you have to be responsible and you have to give back to the relationship and be there for your loved one. And, you know, I have to be there from everyone in my family and all my friends. And, you know, it comes with a life that I've never had before. It comes with a level of responsibility, obviously, but when you're sober, I have to do certain things that, you know, some people don't necessarily have to do. And, you know, I get up in the morning, I pray, I do some meditation, read some, some literature, and I have to do certain things every day to keep myself on track. People like me, you know, we have to do a little extra sometimes in order to, uh, stay afloat.

And, but I wouldn't have it any other way. You know, it makes me a better person and makes, you know, I'm not, I should be selfish, selfish, selfish human being. And now the goal is to be there for others, help other people be of service to others, you know, do quote unquote God's work.

And, um, the only way to keep it is to give it away. So that's what I try to do now. So you've been through this journey, Jared Gordon, let's just say, if someone right now is listening and they know that they have a problem, they need help and they get in contact with you, just how do you advise that person to start to move into the right direction, like you've been able to turn it around? Well, it depends, you know, where you're at, how bad your addiction is, what kind of drugs you're doing and, um, or alcohol for that matter. And, you know, there's different levels of care for different individuals. There's people with mental health issues and they abuse drugs and alcohol. There's people, you know, that have all sorts of different issues.

So try to decipher where you're at. And if you're looking for treatment or help, you know, I, I work with a few different places and we can, you know, we try to place people into treatment and get them the help that they need. And, you know, for me, that's what I did. I needed to go to detox. I needed rehab treatment. You know, I needed this separation from the street to clear my head of the fog and the drugs. You know, now I can see a little more clearly, have a little clarity and, you know, have to have to learn tools to stay sober.

And not go back to you. It's easy to get clean, but it's hard to stay sober for long periods of time. So you have to learn these tools and you have to practice it in your daily life. And, and luckily, you know, I was able to, I'm able to, you know, utilize these tools every day. And now, you know, it's been eight years. So that's, that's how I try to help, you know?

Yeah. How, like, what do you want people to gain? Just wondering when they hear your story and you're as open as it comes, right?

In the Octagon, after a fight, you talk about your sobriety, right? You talk about it on a day like today and in countless of interviews I've seen. But what do you hope to get people to really gain when they hear your story and hear what you've been through? I mean, the goal is to help anyone, anyone, any way I can. So when you hear a story like mine, or, you know, many others like mine, obviously it inspires people. You know, I was inspired by certain individuals and, you know, I was an IV cocaine heroin user. I was homeless, I panhandled, I robbed and stole. I was, I lived in homeless shelters on the street. You know, like you said, I was facing 25 to life.

I was arrested eight times. So like, you know, I was as low as you can go, basically, without dying or ending up in long term prison. So there's a way out, no matter how far gone you think you are. There's light at the end of the tunnel. And I've seen people with stories or I've heard stories that are insane, you know, that people, you know, make my story look petty. And they have gotten out, you know, and made a lie for themselves that they can never believe was possible.

So the goal is to just inspire and give people hope and I believe that's what I'm doing. You know, when you were having your post fight press conference at Madison Square Garden, you were telling, you know, everyone that was in that room that it was pretty surreal that used to shoot up heroin in Penn Station. And then here you are all those years later, where you were on a big card, and you knocked out someone and you're sober, and you were rocking MSG that night. I'm just wondering now that being a little over a month ago for you personally to see that journey, and to know what used to do in that building and then what you did that night in that building, just what did that moment mean to you?

The only word to describe it was like epic, you know, it was insane. I used to walk by that building. I was under it in Penn Station, you know, doing my thing and, you know, I used to just dream of one day I'll maybe I'll fight, you know, Madison Square Garden and, you know, my grandfather felt there.

I was born in Manhattan, I was raised in Queens, you know, it's the, it's like the biggest stage, you can be on probably and, you know, the Knicks, the Rangers, just, it's the home of boxing basically like boxing Mecca. So for me to go out there and win by knockout against, you know, over an Olympic medalist. It was, there's no other way to explain it besides a God given a God gave me that I couldn't. You couldn't make that story up really. So, I mean it was, it was incredible and I'm so grateful and I'm honored to be able to, to do that and, you know, put on a show and be there and do that in front of my family and my wife and my friends.

It was insane. You know we talked about the help that you received through the year, and I understand if you want to talk about this Jared Gordon's here with us when you were eight. I was reading you were sexually assaulted by a camp counselor. You know, I'm sure you tried to bury that away for so many years. How did you finally start to get help when it comes to trying to heal not only internally but also publicly from what you went through at such a young innocent age of eight years old. Yeah, I buried that for years until I was 23 that was the first time that I told anyone, and it was my girlfriend at the time was now my wife. She was the first person I told, and she of course told my parents, and I ended up talking about it in therapy I was in a long term treatment center I was in as I was in a program for six months.

And the first part, the first therapist I told was in there. And I have to, you know, work on it and I've, I still talk about it and I just got out of therapy few hours ago, and you know I talked about it with him and I talked about it with other therapists and trauma specialists and no PTSD specialist and I was eight years old I'm 35 now. It's been, you know, 27 years since, since that's happened so you know I've looked into a lot, and I've learned about myself and you know what it's done to me as, as a boy and then as a man. And I think I've done a pretty good job of healing myself. I don't think that you can ever fully be healed or something like that. It's like a death like, you know, if you're close relative or someone you love dies like you're never fully get over it, but you do have to move on. Otherwise you just suffer so you know I'm at the point where I use it to help others like not only am I an addict. I'm a sexual assault victim and that's part of my, of my goals to help people with all sorts of mental health and sexual assault addiction that's, you know, it all falls under mental health so that's why I'm here and, you know, it took years and years and years of process I'm still processing it so.

But I think I'm at a good place with it now. Wrapping up with Jared Gordon, who joins us right now, as a fighter and then also as a human being, what do you want people to know like, like who is Jared Gordon like how do you describe yourself to people. I'm a man of God and I'm a friend, I'm a brother, I'm a husband. So regular guy.

You know, I have tons of tons of issues. That I'm working on, and I'm a regular human you know I just fight in a cage for living so maybe it looks like. Oh, you're, you're not a regular person, but, but I am. I was never really athletic I was never, I mean I was athletic but I was never I never played sports I wrestled a little bit in junior high then I never played any organized sports and then I just started fighting when I was 17 so like, you know, I'm not tall and fast and strong, like, I'm not like a crazy freak athlete I'm just a regular guy just work hard and have faith and, and I train my ass off. So, excuse my language, you know I train really hard and. And I mean I'm gonna fight, but, like, you know, anything is possible for anyone, as long as you have faith and work hard so I just want people thinking me as a regular guy that has gotten through a lot of.

You know bad situations are bad problems and, you know, it's possible for anyone. When we look at your fights recently, we all know you got screwed in this scoring decision with Patty Pimblet, and then you had the other situation as well and you bounce back with the victory as a fight fan I want to see you and Patty fight again do you think that will ever happen because you're a better fighter than Patty Pimblet. I mean, it could happen Do I want to fight him again. Yeah, but do I want to fight him right now. No, I want to top 15. He's not ranked just be 20 Ferguson who I looked way better against Patty and Tony did. You know, like, I don't think I need to prove that I'm better than Patty everybody knows it. So I just, I want to fight a top 15 guy I want to, I want to get into the top 15 right here and make a run it's not, you know, I'm not, I want to progress in this sport and climb up the ladder so that's where I'm at with that, but maybe down the line, you know, main event in London or something.

Yeah, of course I'll fight him again but I want to top 15. Well, I appreciate you sharing your story with us. Unfortunately, I've lost three friends to drug addiction, and I hope if people hear your story, it can motivate them to turn their life around so I appreciate how open you are, and glad our mutual friend Sully who's like friends with everybody connected us and thanks so much for jumping on with us and once again congratulations being sober for eight years is a remarkable accomplishment. Thank you, Zach, I appreciate it. There is flash Jared Gordon joining us on CBS Sports Radio what an emotional conversation and one that a lot of people do need to hear we'll take a break we'll come on back it is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio.

com to get free delivery on your first three orders offer valid for a limited time $10 minimum per order, additional terms apply. Alrighty, welcome back it is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio Broncos country. Let's ride. I don't know where they're riding to Russell Wilson now right into the bench bench by his coach. Sean Payton and that pretty much concludes the era, if you even want to call it it may be more so of an error than an era of Russell Wilson, with the Denver Broncos and we looked this up, because they bench him today, more so for financial reasons than in terms of performance space, even though they'll tell you it's performance based and we knew that Sean was ready to move on from Russell Wilson and you could question why, then did Sean take this job. But what happens if Jared Stidham gets hurt by key right now is the backup. So I would anticipate whether it's elevating someone from the practice squad or bringing someone in. They gotta have someone else, because right now on the depth chart.

It's in a weird way to look at this Jared Stidham one, and then Russell Wilson to like Santa I don't know about you, but it would make no sense whatsoever if let's say this weekend. I don't know, three plays in Jared Stidham gets hurt. You can't put Russ back on the field and quite frankly, if I'm Russell Wilson.

I'm saying, I'm good. The coach doesn't like me. You guys are going to get rid of me at the end of the year. And I know that if he gets hurt. And then if he can't pass a physical and March then that salary for 2025 gets guaranteed so maybe that's why he would want to go back on the field but I don't think Russ is entering the field saying, Oh, I want to get hurt. Now we've seen before remember like Derek Carr last year, when it transpired with the Raiders then they excuse them from the team he left the team. This is going to be awkward because Russell Wilson is not leaving the team and until they make another corresponding move. We are a Jared Stidham injury away from the Broncos going back to Russell Wilson, please let that happen. I don't know, I don't wish anything ill will against Jared Stidham, but like, let's you know, you know, let me do the injury for you. He tweaks his tone, and he just like hobbling a little bit. Good job. Good. Throwing pinky finger.

Yeah, and it's just like it just swells up just enough. He has a blister and you can't feel the ball, something very minor I don't want any injury, you know just you know where he just can't play. Give me Russell Wilson coming in off the bench, and either bleeping the bed or bringing them back to this play well, I want to play well oh man it would be so glorious because last year I didn't like how Russell Wilson handle things. This year, even though I think Sean Payton is better suited for the future of the NFL than Russ is. I would rather have Russ win than Sean win, because it's not as if Russell Wilson is playing horrible football. He's not elite.

He's not great, and that's what you traded for. But there are a lot of other issues with the Broncos before I get to Russell Wilson this year. Now that doesn't mean he should be their long term quarterback moving forward, but Sean basically from the start, said that this was going to work. But it was going to work at his pace.

It was going to work his way or the highway. And from the start right they put up that cheesy photo the two of them at dinner. And I laughed at that photo, because the actions of this being a partnership, have not been the case since then. And anytime Sean has had an opportunity to berate Russ on the sideline, or berate him at the podium. He has done that. And I think Sean Payton comes off rather douchey here, and he has done something that no one did last year, and that was make Russell Wilson, someone that you could have sympathy for now. And I kind of hope that Sean fails the rest of his tenure in Denver, as unlikely as I think this is as I'm saying this so that's why I'm laughing and Russ goes on somewhere to win back the argument here, but a bigger picture conversation here. Just give me a yes or no.

I want no explanation. Just a yes or no. I'll start with Carlos Russell Wilson. Will he be a Hall of Famer. Yes or no. Yes. Okay, Santa. Yes or no, Russell Wilson will he be a Hall of Famer.

No. So Russell Wilson has the resume of a Hall of Famer. Like if I would tell you a nine time pro baller and a Super Bowl champion. I think we could all agree, that is the resume, those are the accolades of some of the criteria that you would suggest is a Hall of Famer. But I think the last two years when he was like a shoe in slam dunk in Seattle to go have another what three or four good years solid years. And then he would get into the Hall of Fame, but it got so ugly in Denver. And now after two years he didn't even get into his extension yet, and they're already waving the white flag, and they're saying this is done.

This is over with. So, when you look at the resume of Russell Wilson, on the surface, Super Bowl champion, great quarterback, nine time pro baller. But you know how I'm going to remember Russ?

Two things. One, being a part of one of the worst trades in NFL history, where Seattle loves this deal, but this deal was hellaciously bad for the Denver Broncos, and Russ was the big coop. Russ was the big player in this deal. And then also, Russell Wilson, in my opinion, is a part of one of the best plays in NFL history, but he was on the wrong end of it. And when I think of Russ, fair or not, even though there were so many good memories, I think it's very tough to make a Hall of Fame case for someone, even with nine pro balls, even with the Super Bowl championship. When the first two things I think about you are you are part of the worst trade, one of the worst trades of all time, and then also, yes, they called the play to throw the football, which was stupid, but he threw the interception. And I think those two moments, and you could say, all right, if it was just one of them isolated like the Malcolm Butler Super Bowl interception, I don't want to say it happens, but you could still be a Hall of Famer, but now when you have the other domino, where you bookend it, being on the wrong side of one of the most epic plays in NFL history, which is your most horrible play, and then you have the other side of being a part of the worst trade return in NFL, like what they got, and then what they had to give up, and you being on the wrong side of it, I think this plays Russell Wilson out of the Hall of Fame.

Now, this next chapter, whether he goes to the commanders, whether he goes to the Steelers, or whoever it may be, the Raiders, the Falcons, I don't believe that anyone thinks they're getting a great quarterback anymore, or they're getting an elite quarterback, but just maybe, like if he gets to a playoff or two in this new spot, just maybe he plays himself back into the Hall of Fame, but right now, I don't think Russell Wilson, if the vote was tomorrow, he won't be a first ballot, we know that, but I don't think he gets into the Hall of Fame because of how disastrous these two years were with the Denver Broncos. Pat Boyle, let me just do a little exercise here, because Pat just walked into the middle of the conversation, we got Carlos' answer, we got Mike's answer, we got my answer. Mr.

Unlimited. Yes or no? Russell Wilson on the Hall of Fame? No.

Your answer as to why? Because, what has he done the last five years, four years, you know, I understand that most quarterbacks aren't like Tom Brady and aren't going to play into their 40s, but I mean, come on, the guy has been, he's been substantially better this year. The last two years- But he couldn't get any worse. Yeah, the last two years, statistically, one of the worst quarterbacks in the league, and at what point, other than maybe for a two-year period with Seattle, one of them when they won the first Super Bowl, when they won the Super Bowl, would you say he's the best player on that team?

Or, he's a top five quarterback? Well, he's after the LOB for a few years, he was the best player on that team, but what I will say is this, I'm with you, I don't think he's a Hall of Famer, my argument was because he's a part of the wrong side of one of the most epic plays in NFL history, and then also he's on the wrong side of like the worst trade, one of the worst trades in NFL history. And also, Russ for so many years, and maybe with some insecurities too, and maybe that's, you know, with the interception of the Super Bowl and then they break up that team, you're not wrong in terms of for so many years when they won, when they won. People thought of it as Pete, people thought of it as their defense, and then on offense, you thought of Marshawn Lynch first, and then Russ on his own, there is always, even though there were some good years, at the end in Seattle, they moved on from a quarterback that at the time everyone thought it was like the dumbest deal to move on from that quarterback.

And Pete and John Schneider, who was his biggest supporters, ended up being right. And now in Denver, you could blame Nathaniel Hackett, and then okay, you see him with Sean Payton, and I know Sean doesn't like him, but he got better this year, but I would still not call him an elite quarterback. And unless he gives you two or three more really good seasons, which I don't think is going to happen, like I think he could have taken Atlanta to the playoffs this year. I think he could have taken Pittsburgh to the playoffs this year. But without having two or three more good seasons, I do think people tend to remember more so the back end of his career rather than the beginning of his career when it was this remarkable story.

Right, you had the quarterback come over for Green Bay that they paid all that money for, and then that guy didn't even start because Russell Wilson impressed so many people in training camp. Yeah, I would say he's probably never even been a top three quarterback in the league, and I think if you were to put him as a top five quarterback in the league... No, he's never been a top three quarterback. And I would say you'd be reaching if you ever put him as a top five quarterback in the league at any point during his career.

That's in my opinion. So, I don't think he's going to be in the hall. Maybe one or two years max that you could make the case for a top five quarterback in the Hall of Fame. If he gets into the Hall of Fame, I mean, we might as well just start letting anybody. Well, I don't think it would be egregious. Like, he's a nine-time Pro Bowler, and he's a Super Bowl champion. Like, it wouldn't be egregious if he gets in, but I lean more with you. I'm stricter on my standards on who we allow in the Hall of Fame, and I think his career was more just really, really, really good with an ugly finish than it would be for me to say great. And I say this every day on this show. I think it's the biggest fight that I have on this show. There's a difference between great and good, and now we're in a society where you're either great or you suck.

That's just how it is. Everyone uses what term these days? Oh, he's the GOAT. He's the GOAT. Who's the guy at the draft? Brandon Miller, who is saying Paul George is his GOAT.

Like, what the heck are we doing? There's a difference on who your favorite player is, and then who is the greatest player. And, you know, God bless Paul George, but he was never the greatest player that the NBA has seen or even in that conversation. Do you think Russell Wilson is the Hall of Famer?

855-212-4CBS, 855-212-4227. I do not think he is right now. Brandon Stokely is going to join us at the top of the hour. We'll do a news brief on the other side. But first up with the latest CBS Sports Radio update, here he is, Pat Boyle. Alrighty, rock and roll, and it is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. We'll talk more about Russell Wilson with Brandon Stokely, former Broncos and Colts wide receiver.

Now does a talk show in Denver in 15 minutes from now. Russell Wilson, if you've been sleeping under a rock today, or maybe just still in a food coma from Christmas, and you just keep on eating and eating this week and not paying attention to sports as you gear up for 2024. Russell Wilson benched because of performance, they say, with the Denver Broncos.

And now Jared Stidham will start this week. We know it's more financially, and the Broncos at the end of this season are going to look to move on from Russell Wilson. And I asked this question in the last segment, do you think Russell Wilson is a Hall of Famer? Because in one breath he's a nine-time Pro Bowler, and he's a Super Bowl champion, but he's also a part of one of the best plays in NFL history, but he was on the wrong side of it, making the mistake. And then he is also a part of the worst trade in NFL history, where the Seahawks love it, but the Broncos thought they were getting a great quarterback, and not even into the extension, they extended him, and you didn't even have the extension kick in, and your two years remaining on what was left on that contract in Seattle, here we are where Russell Wilson is already about to be, or on the verge to be, at the end of the season getting let go from the Denver Broncos.

So do you think Russell Wilson will eventually be a Hall of Famer? 855-212-4CBS, 855-212-4227. Let's go to John in South Carolina. He's first up with Zach Galba on CBS Sports Radio. John.

Hey man, nice show. Russell Wilson, you have to say, I would say no, I've seen a lot of football. You know, good player, but you know, Hall of Fame, no. Blacko, he does one Super Bowl, not as many Pro Bowls, but by the end of this year, he'll have two Super Bowls, so maybe he should go in. John, you think the Browns are going all the way to the Super Bowl?

Is that what you're saying? I've said it since they made a deal with the devil and signed Watson. I just knew it wouldn't be with Watson. The devil gives us a Super Bowl, but he takes away everything else, and we're going to really be bad friends. It was just like with Russell Wilson, that contract that Sean Watson got is just going to kill us to death with his performance, so I don't know what to tell you about that joke.

Well, here's what I'll tell you, John, and appreciate the phone call. Russell Wilson is one of the worst deals in NFL history, that trade. DeSean Watson, he'll have another year, but with what has happened the first two years, not that far behind him. Now, DeSean is younger, and the conversation of should they have traded for him, should they have given him all the guaranteed money, it's a different conversation than just evaluating the deal, because, right, DeSean Watson, whether you like him or not, and I'm not defending what he did, it was absolutely repulsive what he was accused of, but we did see him look like he was going to be a top seven, top eight quarterback for the next decade with what he did in Houston.

And even before all the allegations came out against him, he was already done with the Texans organization. But he didn't play in 2021, he was suspended for most of 2022, returned at the back end of 2022, did not look all that good, and then this year, there was so much rust to knock off, he also got hurt, then he comes back, he finally had a good game, and then he's out for the season. So think about it, the last time we saw him be great statistically was 2020. The team stunk, but it wasn't a good situation.

They had four wins, but he played individually really damn good. But that was back in 2020. 2021 has happened, 2022 has happened, 2023 has happened. And we still haven't even seen DeSean Watson knock off his rust yet. And going into this year, everyone said Kevin Stefanski was on the hot seat, and where there was a power struggle in Denver where the coach went out over the quarterback, we all assumed that the quarterback in Cleveland was going to win out over the coach. Well, Kevin Stefanski won a coach of the year in 2020, and now, without DeSean Watson, without Nick Chubb, missing countless pieces on his offensive line, injuries all across the board on both sides of the football, the Browns with Joe Flacco are 10 and 5.

And at worst, they will have 11 wins at the end of this regular season, maybe even 12 with their next two opponents. So next year, let's just remind what Stefanski did this year, where at the Browns regress, I don't think it's right to then say, which some fans will, fire Kevin Stefanski, because Kevin Stefanski this year showed his worth. Now it's up to DeSean Watson to show what he has left in the tank and hold up his end of the bargain. But a lot of people have used Stefanski through this year, and it's just changed in the last few weeks, whenever the Browns lose, oh, get rid of him, he's not the guy, he's not the guy, he's not the guy. No, he's showing you this year, he is the guy for Cleveland. Now DeSean can't be like Russell Wilson, where a year from now, everyone wants to get rid of DeSean Watson. Let's go to JD in South Carolina next up on CBS Sports Radio. JD, what's shaking? Hey, Zach, thank you for taking my call. We got two South Carolina callers there in a row, man.

Put you on national radio here when our local show is off, and all of a sudden we start blowing you up, man. But no, I just wanted to comment on the Russell Wilson deal. You know, I've never really thought about it if he was a Hall of Famer or not.

Honestly, up until you asked the question, I would have said, yes, he probably is going to be a Hall of Famer. But now looking at it, just like you said, part of one of the worst trades, had one of the worst plays, should have two Super Bowls, not just one. But I also wanted to kind of compare it to, you know, Matthew Stafford, for example. I mean, here he is in Detroit all these years, and I couldn't win a Super Bowl, couldn't even make it to the playoffs, hardly. Well, he had a lot of bad teams. You know, Russell Wilson was set up a lot more to succeed in Seattle, even though Stafford had more talent with some of the teams that they had in Detroit. Right, yep.

And so, yeah, they started debating. Coaching, too. If Stafford was a Hall of Famer, yeah, oh, absolutely. And so, yeah, they started debating if, you know, Stafford was a Hall of Famer, he comes in, wins the one Super Bowl, they make him a Hall of Famer or whatnot. But, you know, think of Tom Brady. What if he had went to the Patriots, down to the Buccaneers, and what if he would have flaked out there at the end? I mean, I know they wouldn't have questioned his Hall of Fame status, but a lot, I mean, even Peyton Manning. These guys go to other teams, they make them better, they win Super Bowls. Matthew Stafford, Peyton Manning, and so Russell Wilson, he goes to Denver, and it's, you know, a good pedigree of a professional football team, and it almost made them worse. And to the other caller, talking about Cleveland and Deshaun, I think Deshaun's probably going to be one of the worst contracts ever signed. Yeah, fully guaranteed.

There's no way out of it. I don't know that he'll ever be what he was before. Yeah, I don't think he will, JD, because we are now so many years removed.

We're now three years removed. Like, I know what Joe Flacco's doing, but that's in a small sample size for a few games in the season where you could get hot and you could go on a magical run. We saw what Nick Foles did, right, for a few games you could go on a run. Deshaun Watson needs to lead a team for not only one season, but for multiple seasons here on out, and I just don't think we'll consistently see elite play from Deshaun Watson. I don't even know if we'll see good play, and when you give him that contract and you give up all those draft picks, you look at Russ right now, who's clearly a more likable person than Deshaun Watson, just being serviceable isn't good enough when you get traded for all those pieces and then get the contracts that you did get. Let's go to Andy in Pittsburgh next up on CBS Sports Radio.

Andy, what's happening? Hey, I think Russell Wilson is a Hall of Famer and you used to play about the Malcolm X Butler interception. Well, I'll remind you, Peyton Manning was driving the coach to tie the game against the site and trade the quarter and 76 yards back.

Yes. So Peyton Manning... Well, no. Well, here's where you're wrong, Andy. Peyton Manning's numbers are outstanding. Russell Wilson's numbers aren't outstanding. Well, Russell Wilson's in the top three of watching quarterbacks of all time, 5,000-plus yards, and he's right up there with Frank Harkit and with touchdown passes.

No, you're comparing completely different eras here. Like, the numbers now are always going to be skewed into this era. Like, if we just did it based off the numbers, look how many, like, I don't think Matt Ryan is a Hall of Famer. Matt Ryan, though, does have great numbers compared to a lot of other eras because of how much they throw the football now. So the era you play in, yeah, a lot of guys now are going to have better stats than guys from the 80s, the 70s, the 60s, the 50s, because they throw the ball 50 times a game now.

And that's going to be the biggest adjustment for the writers moving on into the future. You may have great numbers, but it doesn't mean you were a great player. And one of the greatest coaches of all time, Bill Belichick, said this. Stats are for losers. And I'm not saying stats are irrelevant, but you could have great stats and you could know down deep you're not a great player.

And we could know that you're not a great player. Let's go to Liam, Pennsylvania, quickly next up on CBS Sports Radio. Excuse me, Len.

Go ahead, Len. Yeah, lifelong Seattle Seahawks fan here, but I'm a realistic one at that too. And talking about, you know, the trade and stuff like that from Denver, sure, you know, what Denver gave up, we know now it was terrible.

It looked kind of bad in the beginning to begin with. But I think to really know how bad it is, we have to see what Seattle does with it, right? They went to the playoffs last year and they could get their back again this year with a guy that's not a franchise quarterback in Geno Smith.

Right, not at all. But we look back to, like, let's say when people say the worst trades of all time, it's got to be Herschel Walker, you know. And what did Dallas do with it? They turned picks into three championships or whatever it was, you know what I mean?

But what does Seattle got so far? They've got an offensive lineman who's busted in this plate half the season. We got a corner in Witherspoon that looks, you know, great, but he's also missed numerous games. We got Maffei that's disappeared when the competition got tough, but then he's still stat guy. And like we said, stats are for losers.

Stat guy would say, oh, he's got, you know, 10 sacks, whatever it is now. You know, I don't think Seattle's exactly, you know, hit the jackpot with the draft picks. No, you're not walking away with, you know, $450 million, Len.

I understand that, right? You didn't hit the mega millions, but you have looked a whole lot better than what Denver's looked with. Because you didn't believe, Pete Carroll and John Schneider did not believe Russ was worth it anymore. And they were fine with letting him walk out the door. If you didn't do that, then you would have had to have given him a new contract and pay him elite money, and then you would be stuck with that contract and it would have been an egregious mistake. Brandon Stokely next. Terms apply.