Giannis Leaving Milwaukee? (Hour 3)

How we doing? Hour number three of our radio program. That's right, it is the Zach Gelb show, Coast to Coast on CBS Sports Radio. Coming up in an hour forty from now, we will replay you our conversation with the legendary Hall of Fame quarterback, the two-time MVP, a three-time Super Bowl champion in Steve Young. If you missed it earlier, you don't want to miss it.

Coming up at 9.40 p.m. Eastern, 6.40 p.m. Pacific. He went through so many things with the current quarterback situation with the San Francisco 49ers. His advice to Jordan Love for taking over after having the legendary career of Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay.

Very effusive in his praise of Aaron Rodgers and what the Jets could do this year and a whole lot more. You don't want to miss it. A very entertaining and compelling conversation with the pro football Hall of Famer, Steve Young. That you will hear on the Zach Gelb show at 9.40 p.m. Eastern, 6.40 p.m. Pacific. But first up, we got five questions, five answers. I'm off tomorrow. Hickey's off tomorrow, so we're treating today like it is a Friday. So let's get to a little segment that we do every Monday and technically Friday here on CBS Sports Radio. We call it five questions, five answers. Onsides, offside, hot take Hickey. You know the dealio.

Hit it! Zach's taking on the most polarizing issues in sports. Which side of the line of scrimmage will he end up on? Offside, defense number 69. It's onsides, offsides with Zach Gelb on CBS Sports Radio.

Alrighty Hickey, what do we got? Zach, in not new news, Colts running back Jonathan Taylor is looking for a trade. Did you hear the side that you just let out? Well, it's very frustrating. In not new news. It's only been talked about every day for, feels like forever.

Not every day for the last month, but there's been a lot of drama last month, so this feels very long. I heard a rumor. A rumor?

Yeah, around the studio. You've been talking about me a little bit? Have I been talking about you? Have you not been keeping my name out your mouth? Well, maybe I'm like Ryan Clark. I don't know what you're referencing, and I look around the studio and it's me and you. Did you just call me fat like an onyx bottle girl? I guess we'll see what I allegedly said. Or maybe I should reference Tua and that you know me better than I know me. So, you haven't always gone to the Super Bowl with us, even though I've always been an advocate for that.

When we were in, or when I was in, Los Angeles, I met your guy Jonathan Taylor, took a picture with him, and said, hey, here's hot take Hickey's favorite player. That's right. A little birdie told me around the CBS Sports Radio Studios that you think that conversation that I had two years ago with Jonathan Taylor was me planting the seed to sabotage the Indianapolis Colts and tell Jonathan Taylor, you don't want to stay in Indianapolis.

They're a poverty franchise, and you should try to force your way out and don't trust Jim Erce and don't do anything that he says in terms of the contract. Is that a theory that you share? Because that's what someone told me today. Not specifically. My theory is that I think you put a little bad hex, you put your own Gelb hex on his ankle, and week number four all of a sudden he goes down and misses six games, and now part of the reason why he has no contract and why he's upset is that ankle injury. I don't know. You always call it the Hickey hex.

I think there could be a Gelb mushy that may hurt his right ankle. You cannot use my shtick and then throw it back in my face. Come up with your own material here.

I mean, coincidence or not, you see him after the 2021 season. 22 is an absolute disaster and train wreck for him. Now we all get things wrong. Put two and two together. But if I had to come up with the list of the things that you've been wrong about or the organizations you screwed over compared to mine, I think there'd be a lot more paper that we need to go into the paper shredder for you. Organizations I've screwed over. I've not screwed over anybody. If anything, I helped him was the reason why the Rams won the Super Bowl.

Should get a ring. Yeah. Okay.

He's got less things to worry about than me. Oklahoma. The Broncos. Oh, rush. That was the thing.

That's a shame on you. A hand up. That's on me.

I gave him the thing. Carolina Panthers. Baker Mayfield. Remember to stop there.

I got about like 25 more though that we could go through. But anyway, does have until Tuesday reportedly to find a new deal. Now, if that does not happen, NFL Network's Ian Rappaport was on the Rich Eisen show and discussed that he does not see a situation in which Taylor is back in Indy's backfield if he does not have a new deal. Who do you think told Rappaport that? Do you think it was Jonathan Taylor's agent who does a lot of talking or do you think it was more of the team that was annoyed with him?

Because remember when Dwight Frini was on with us, when this trade request was originally made, he said you're not going about it the right way and it's gonna rub people the wrong way in the organization. I think it's definitely from Jonathan Taylor's perspective. They are the ones that are more inclined to talk and ones to make those threats like the one Rappaport just reported on. I don't know. And I know that's not a great answer for a radio show.

You're probably right. But would anyone be surprised if this is the Colts popping off where the Colts are now talking in a negative way where, hey, it's so bad where you're trying to paint Jonathan Taylor in a bad light where we don't even know if he's going to come back in. And you know that Jim Irsay is never afraid to tweet or comment on something. How does that benefit the Colts, though?

I guess that's where I'm lost. Like saying you're not going to play is Jonathan Taylor saying, hey, you better trade me because I ain't playing for you. Like that's a threat to win the public kind of kick the foot up their ass to win the public view where to make Jonathan Taylor look like he's the bad guy here where this guy's under contract since we're not giving him a new deal.

He now doesn't want to play for us. And he's willing to take it to that level, which usually isn't successful where I'm not I do agree it's probably more so Taylor's agent than the Colts. But it wouldn't shock me with how many people are involved in these things. You know, when a lot of people are involved, they like to gossip and play that game where it's just one person, maybe the Colts organization that are like bleep that guy.

I've even heard rumors from his side that he doesn't want to play. Like, look how unprofessional that is. Maybe they're taking that kind of route with it. They want to win the court appellate perception. They'll do so if they make this trade by getting a first round pick or getting two seconds.

That's the only way you're going to come out looking good. And so I think a deal happens playing the word game. I think if the deal happens, it would be a two or four.

I'd like a two and a four. That's what I think you're getting back for Jonathan Taylor. If a trade, though, does not happen. If a trade goes down, forget the contract part of it because the teams have to give me a contract.

They want to trade him. If you got a two and a four, you think you're doing better than that? I do. You think you're getting a first?

Two and three. I would take a one. I'd love a one. Condition? I would take a condition.

Well, would I take a condition? Probably not. For the way that the running back position isn't valued right now, I'd be shocked.

Shocked. If you got anything really more than a two or four. Maybe like one more pick that you add in there, but that's what I kind of feel like this would be.

But anyway, go ahead. Ask the question. If he is not traded onsides or offsides, Jonathan Taylor will not play for the Colts this season. I'll go offside on that. If he does not get traded, he will play at some point for the Colts this year. I don't know if he'll play the entire season.

Probably won't. I don't know how far he wants to take it, but I don't think it's worth it to sit out because you're never going to get that money back. And then also you don't accrue the season, too. So it doesn't really make sense to me.

The only way that I would contemplate him sitting out this year, and I still don't know what it accomplishes, other than it just keeps your name in the news, is usually like, for example, Saquon Barkley and Josh Jacobs. They have $10 million. This is $4 million. So this is the most money he's ever going to make in his career so far through the first four years, and you'd rather make that $4 million than not. But it's not as if it's a number where it's like, oh my goodness gracious, he just passed up.

I'm talking about an athlete's sense. Like $10 or $11 million. To say he passed up $4 million, it's not that big in the athlete world. But being under contract, all that does is push the contract the next year, and you'll make $4.3 next year, and basically you're making $4.3 in two years instead of just one year. Well, if he doesn't play this year for the Colts, he's gone. They'll deal him at some point in the offseason. This is not going to be a two-year thing where he's on the team, he sits out an entire year, and then they say, okay, come back and play for the $4.3 million.

This would start to get really ugly. He would go the James Harden route. And you know what, if he's traded then next year, if he sits out, with one year left in the contract, I don't see a team trading for him and giving him an extension. A team would trade for him. A team would trade for him. I don't think they would say, I definitely want to see him prove it after a year and a half of bad play and not playing.

Maybe just give him some guaranteed money and make it an easy out if you do something like that. But you're probably right. Alright, so no holding out for John and Taylor in your opinion. Let's go to a little baseball news devastating.

Let me be clear. He'll play some games. He'll definitely play some games, but I don't think he's going to miss the entire season.

Devastating night last night in baseball. It was revealed that Shohei Ohtani, baseball's unicorn, tore his UCL and will not pitch the rest of the season. Now it came out earlier today that Ohtani is going to continue to hit the season as he decides on whether to rehab the injury or undergo Tommy John, the second one of his career, unfortunately. No timetable of when that decision will be made, but you've got to think of the month left in the season.

It will be sooner rather than later. Now obviously this is big news, not just because he's the best player in baseball, but also because he is set to become a free agent at the end of the season. Biggest contract ever in baseball given out. His teammate Mike Trout, 12 year, $426.5 million. I almost thought you were about to say a word there on the radio that you're not allowed to say. I was going to say trout.

I was between trout and 12. Don't be careful there. You're riding a line there that's getting really close to saying some word.

I am in control for the most part. I promise you that. You know what word I'm saying, right? Yes. Okay, good. I don't need to rhyme it for you, right? No, no you do not.

So instead of saying words that could get us in trouble, I'll just ask you a very simple question. What's up with the SWAT team outside the studio? Shohei Ohtani will still receive, despite the injury, the richest contract in MLB history. So that's Trout's 12 years, $426.5 million?

Yep. And Mike Trout, last time I checked, is just a hitter? Just a hitter. And right now Shohei Ohtani is an elite hitter?

Yeah. He won't get $600 million, which he would have got if he was still pitching. And I don't think he'll pitch again or he's on borrowed time on the mound.

But he'll exceed $426.5 million on sides. It was announced yesterday that Sam Darnold was named the backup quarterback for the 49ers, meaning former third overall pick Trey Lance has been relegated to third string. For the 40 who? 49ers. Oh, I thought we called them the 41ers on this show. Well, you have more beef with them than I do.

So I'll let you take that nickname. Both Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch spoke on CANBR yesterday and today. By the way, for some reason, I found this out recently, a buddy of mine who loves.

A buddy of mine must search my name every day just to see what people say about me. And he found some Reddit thread where I don't even think we're carried on CANBR. I know CBS Sports Radio is on the weekends, but I don't think from 6 to 10 p.m. Eastern we are carried on CANBR. But maybe it's from my days of the weekend overnights.

They've never changed that on their weekend schedule. It's just crazy because we're talking like four or five years ago. But some guy was going off that he heard Zach Gelb on CANBR. I don't know. Maybe they were streaming a game.

I don't know their gaming rights. And then on the stream they had to air us because they couldn't air the game. But this one guy was going off of me on Reddit how to disgrace that CANBR at any point airs any part of our show because of my interview with Deebo Samuel. So hello to the 49er fans and all the 49er fans in the Reddit world. I love you. Smoochie, smoochie.

A lot of people wearing red are big fans of you. So head coach and GM spoke on CANBR yesterday and today. Both said they hope to keep Lance on the roster for the season. Onsides or offsides? The 49ers shouldn't trade Trey Lance this season.

Oh, onsides. They should not trade him whatsoever because even though you have Brock Purdy and people love Brock Purdy, we've got to see if we can do it for a full season. I don't believe in Sam Darnold. So there could be a point where you need Trey Lance.

For a fifth or sixth round pick, I would rather have Trey Lance for this year than get a fifth or sixth round pick back. Week zero is basically upon us. Two top 15 teams open this season.

No. 13 Notre Dame and No. 6 USC.

The Irish go abroad to face Navy in Dublin. Trojans host San Jose State. Now both teams are big time favorites. Notre Dame 20.5 point favorites over the Midshipmen. I hate these spreads in college football when they get this big. I hate playing them.

Well, I think that's big. Trojans 30.5 points against San Jose State. Onsides or offsides. Either Notre Dame or USC won't cover the opening weekend spread. Now they'll probably win 45-3, but you're picking USC to win it all?

Yes, yes I am. Alright, let's go San Jose State. Get two touchdowns on the board. I'll say one of the underdogs. They're not going to win, but I'll say that they'll cover the spread. One of them. Either Notre Dame or USC won't cover the opening weekend spread. I'll say onsides.

I'll go one of them there. And finally, a fire sale of sorts is happening in the desert. As the Cardinals today traded former 8th overall pick Isaiah Simmons to the Giants for a 7th rounder. And then sent offensive tackle Josh Jones to the Texans for a 5th round pick.

Real quickly, didn't you think the 7th round pick for Isaiah Simmons is low? They have not used him the right way. He's not been the way that we thought he could be.

He's an athletic player. But we've seen this before with the Cardinals where they don't use the players correctly. Like Ahsan Redick, his last year in Arizona had some success, but they played him the wrong position for years. And then, I know it's been different coaching staffs of course because they change coaches like every third day out in the desert with the Cardinals. Then he goes to the Panthers, has 10 plus sacks. Then goes to the Eagles, has 10 plus sacks. I feel like they don't know how to use these athletic freaks on the defensive side of the ball in Arizona, no matter who the coach is. And they still keep picking them. A 7th round pick?

What does that do for you? I'd rather keep them. I don't care if you thought his attitude sucked, if that's one of the things. And if there was an effort issue, but a 7th round pick? I would agree. I got nothing.

I got nothing to justify what they did, that's for sure. So those two trades happened. Good job by Joe Shane though. That's a good general manager friend to show Joe Shane who continuously makes good trades in his two years on the job. And Wink Martindale, a creative defensive coordinator that should be able to put a...

I don't want to use the word unicorn because I hate that, but a guy, a hybrid player let's say. Should get more out of him than what the Cardinals did. Yes, could put him in the right positions to succeed like he was or did I should say at Clemson. So those two players got traded today. A player though that has requested a trade yet to be fulfilled. All pro safety, Buddha Baker.

So let me ask you this, onsides or offsides? By week one, Buddha Baker will be on a new team. By week one?

Week one, two and a half weeks away roughly from September 10th. I think he'll get traded at some point. Remember he wanted to get traded, that didn't happen. I think he'll get traded by the deadline. That deal I think is more complex than the others because I think they really do like Buddha Baker. I think Buddha Baker is a big player.

I think they'll wait until you get closer to the deadline. So you ask me if Buddha Baker will be on a new team by week one? I will go offside. Alrighty, that is the Zach Gelb show on a Thursday for onsides. Offside, Larry Holder is going to join us at the top of the hour. We'll preview the Saints on first and goal.

And legendary quarterback, the Pro Football Hall of Famer, Steve Young. If you missed that conversation, we'll replay it for you. It was a great 20 minute conversation if I may say so myself.

We'll replay that for you at 9.40 p.m. Eastern, 6.40 p.m. Pacific. The Greek Freak signed that Supermax and we had that stuff going all over social media where it got to a point where the Bucks actually reached out to us. And they thanked us for our verbal support of Giannis Antetokounmpo and the Milwaukee Bucks. And the day where Giannis signed the Supermax, Peter Fagan, the president of the Bucks, did one interview. And it was him calling our hotline to come on this show. So for me to feel the way that I feel today, it's not to just get a reaction. It's not just to get clicks, which I'm sure some Bucks fans will forget how we approached this a few years ago. And that's what they'll say now, because when people get frustrated, that's what they say. I don't like what I'm hearing right now from Giannis Antetokounmpo.

And there was an interview that he did with The New York Times. We'll get to it in just a second. And I know right away Bucks fans are going to say, but Zach, he said this before. And there's been similar situations like this in the past. And the Bucks approved Giannis Antetokounmpo that they were championship caliber and made the right moves. Believing in Chris Middleton, going out and trading for Drew Holliday. They put themselves in a better position. They took advantage and won a championship. But with how last year ended, it still doesn't sit well with me. And also Giannis at the podium saying this season wasn't a failure. I know some people love that. I could not like that whatsoever.

And also I thought it was weak. And in addition to that, I understand that you can't win every year. But when you lose to a team, and I know the Heat went on to go to the NBA Finals. When you lose to a team that needed to win the second playing game and was trailing with four minutes to go. I know you can talk about injuries and everything and how many leads they blew in that game and in that series.

You got to wear that one on the chin. And not go after the reporter for asking if this season was a failure. So I think a lot of that was frustration from Giannis Antetokounmpo. Where even after he won the first championship, he talked about the next one.

And he said maybe that's in Milwaukee, maybe that's somewhere else. Like he doesn't know. But when I hear Giannis Antetokounmpo say to the New York Times, quote, I would not be the best version of myself if I don't know that everybody is on the same page. Everybody's going for a championship.

Everybody's going to sacrifice time away from their family like I do. And if I don't feel that, I'm not signing. Where you look at the Giannis Antetokounmpo contract situation, he's eligible for an extension next year. And he has a player option coming up in 2025, 2026, and he's not a unrestricted free agent until 2026.

So I hear that and my antenna goes up and I said, here you go again. Where Giannis is challenging the organization, which I actually like. Where he's saying you want to keep me. Go out there and make moves that show that everyone is on board. To go win another championship. That's easier said than done. And it's tough to replicate that. I know we get in this world now where we start thinking about dynasties and the team wins a championship. Oh, they're going to win it every year. That doesn't happen. Dynasties are rare in sports. There's some teams with multiple titles. But if that's going to be the expectation, which should be the expectation each and every year. You kind of look at that answer. And I love Milwaukee. But in a smaller market, it's tough to do that.

It is. And I still think they believe in Chris Middleton. Drew Holliday is not going to play in this league forever. You're going to have to make some changes with that team.

And just because they got it right once doesn't mean they're going to get it right again. And I hear that hickey and I hate to say it, but my first reaction is that Giannis is going to be leaving. And you all know how much I screamed on this show and yelled at anybody that was advocating for Giannis Antetokounmpo to leave.

I'm not advocating for him to leave. I just hear those quotes. And I know they've been said similarly before and we had these conversations before, but I think it's going to be tough to replicate what they did a few years ago.

And I read those quotes. That sounds to me like a guy who's clearly not happy right now, who is questioning the commitment level of others in the organization and maybe doesn't think this team is a championship team anymore. And if those thoughts are there with the guy that's already won a championship. I know Giannis is a different guy, but all we talk about now is legacy, legacy, legacy in sports. If he's looking for another one to further enhance this already great legacy of Giannis Antetokounmpo, it kind of feels like a guy that you are hearing of that is already having one foot in, one foot out with the organization. And I know he already signed once and I know he won a championship, but I just read that quote this time around.

It feels different, Hickey, when I look at it where it would not shock me and I would maybe lean more on the side of that he's leaving rather than he's saying. I'm with you because look at the changes between this time when he's talking about it and the last time when he signed the Supermax contract. New owner, big deal, new head coach, and the core around him is older. Chris Middleton is now coming off two straight years where he's not been able to stay healthy in the playoffs.

And gets injured a lot, yeah. Right, and so it's like now you're looking at not only is just convincing Giannis how we're all bought in, we'll spend whatever money it takes, it's also you probably for Giannis and the Bucks have another legitimate window when he's talking about now with two years left and having that option he could pick up in September. He's kind of looking at the next let's say five years. You're going to need a new number two next to Giannis at some point to continue to be a title contender within that next five year gap. And if he doesn't trust that you'll be able to find that perfect guy we've seen, a team like Philly, swing and miss on a bunch of number twos next to Embiid. I think he sees that and says I don't want to be the next Embiid 2.0, be stuck here with a bunch of rotating casts. I would say it's about a year he's given right now, putting the Bucks on notice.

This time next year I think is when we'll really see him either force his way out or stay inside the extension. And I get what you're saying bringing up Embiid, but there's a big difference. Giannis has already got the taste of winning. Where Giannis knows what it's like to be dominant and be a champion. Joel Embiid you could argue oh well if you haven't got that feeling yet and you're chasing it maybe you go elsewhere. But there's still also that love that Joel Embiid has for Philadelphia, a big city. You know I look at Giannis, if Giannis leaves the Bucks, I was just talking about this with Bart Winkler because we were going back and forth on this article. I think a lot of Bucks fans wouldn't be mad at Giannis where I think they would say thank you for the title. We're more so mad at the organization that they didn't put you in a position where you wanted to stay.

Because you already stayed when it wasn't popular to stay. And I love that when a player stays in a small market and goes and wins when people say that he can't do it. And if he gets that feeling that the organization isn't a championship spot anymore, I can't really crush Giannis Antetokounmpo for wanting to leave because he already delivered that NBA title. And he already gave you that benefit of the doubt and is willing to do it for multiple years. And his reasons for leaving again it's not like oh I have a prime window I just want to go elsewhere I want to go home I want to do whatever just like Milwaukee. Because I want to win. Like you said you get the taste of it and now it's oh I got a little taste of winning I want it more and more and more.

If you as a team cannot put pieces around me it's almost like I have no choice but to leave. So Damian Lillard right now is a big name that's out there and you know he wants to be traded. But he's not going to talk he said negatively about the Portland Trail Blazers.

I actually think we're at a point where that's a mistake. Where I'm not a big fan of James Harden but I feel as if Damian Lillard's biggest fear is that he thinks that he's going to be viewed as a villain. And I don't know how he could still think he's going to be viewed as a villain because everyone's understanding of his situation. But I would kind of pick up the intensity and do James Harden like things to get my way out of Portland as quick as possible and find the way to the Miami Heat. Because I guess Miami doesn't have enough attractive pieces according to the Portland Trail Blazers right now. So I think he has to put some public pressure on the organization to get a deal done or from some other people to just kind of get talking about the whole Damian Lillard situation. But like I do think Damian Lillard is viewed differently than Giannis Antetokounmpo and Joel Embiid just because those guys are younger. So when we look at like big names that could potentially be available clearly Damian Lillard is there. But in terms of changing a franchise for like the next five years because what Damian Lillard has like two or three more prime years left.

Two guys that could be leaving. Does anyone pass right now Giannis Antetokounmpo and then also Joel Embiid when you look at potential disgruntled situations where we could be looking at guys that are demanding a trade? I don't think like Jason Tatum is requesting a trade. No and Jaylen Brown just got 300 million. They'll pay Jason Tatum with the Celtics.

I don't think Jimmy Butler is going to be requesting a trade anytime soon. No. And Zion not a big enough name? No.

Not an accomplishment. Yeah I don't think so. Big enough name but not in terms of what you're getting like do you say that you're getting a superstar. Ja Morant is that someone that could eventually become available?

I don't think it's because he doesn't want to be there in Memphis but more so maybe Memphis starts to look at Ja Morant and say that we can't just trust this guy with the things that he pulls off the court. Outside of that, oh you know who's won? Here's one. Luka. Luka Doncic. Because Kristaps Verzingis didn't work there.

They couldn't stay on one another. And then now you have Kyrie Irving there. Anyone trust Kyrie Irving is going to do the right thing next to Luka Doncic there? I would say Luka's the one there. That's the one that could rival Joel Embiid and Giannis Antetokounmpo.

And here's the thing. If you had to rank those three players who would you want? Giannis, Luka and Joel Embiid, how would you rank them? I would probably say Giannis won, Luka two and Beed three. I would say so as well because Embiid I think has the shorter career out of the three of remaining career life.

Just how many injuries he suffered. The Giannis-Luka one is fascinating since Giannis already won a championship. I think you got to go with Giannis. And also the guys won a defensive player of the year and two league MVPs and an NBA Finals MVP. So yeah, I would agree with that order. Giannis won, Luka close. Like I don't think it's just a two.

I think it's like a 1A. And then I would put Joel Embiid in that final spot. Alrighty, this is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio. We will have to give you some comments from the AD at A&M regarding Jimbo Fisher. What's the direction of that program under coach Jimbo Fisher? You're listening to the Zach Gelb Show. Zach Gelb Show, CBS Sports Radio. So I would say out of all the coaches in college football, the coach that annoys Hickey the most is Jimbo Fisher.

Is that an accurate statement? And if I'm wrong on that, I know then who the coach is that you can't stand the most after that. Like if I know I'm rooting against him and hope he fails, yes, Jimbo Fisher. Now, if we just have to talk about one coach, is it a friend of the show? I think it is a friend of the show, actually. One coach?

What do you mean? That you can't stand. If it's not Jimbo Fisher, another coach that you can't stand. Oh, you're going to say Pat Narduzzi? Whatever. I'm sorry.

That's BS. I love Pat Narduzzi. But you talk so much crap about Pat Narduzzi and he kind of owns a lot of real estate in your head. Whenever that guy says something, you're like, oh, look at this guy.

And you go nuts. You're like, even talking crap about him last night with a Pitt grad in Dexter Henry. No, I was giving him a compliment. I said, Pitt is going to be the team this year unranked into the top 10 at the end of the year. Oh, did you really say that?

Oh, yeah. 20 out of the 30 years you've had a team in the preseason AP top 25 start the year unranked, finish the year in the top 10. And that, I think, is going to be Pitt. Their schedule is very easy. I like Phil Drakovic.

Sets up nicely for him. I know what that is. That is the intentional mush by Hot Take Kiki, where you can't stand that Pitt program. You'd be in a crazy Penn Stater and you're going to give a program that you never compliment, say something positive so that you could do your nonsense on that program.

Then they end up stinking. Well, number one, the mush does not exist. So you think I play into it? I absolutely do not.

I don't think it's a real thing. And I think I get plenty of things right that I won't highlight right now. Number two, Dexter and I were talking yesterday as a pick rat himself. For how old I am, I don't hate Pitt. The rivalry was over before I was born and could enjoy it. So I don't really care. A lot of the old techs care. Maybe a lot of Pitt fans care because they're jealous. I don't. So I have no real disdain towards Pitt. My issue is... Don't be that guy. Hold on.

Real quickly. Don't be that guy that goes, oh, I don't hate this program. I hate this team. I like them. I've heard you say so many crazy things about Pitt.

Like, what are we doing here? Because my issue is, Pat Narduzzi treats every Penn State game the four times they play like the Super Bowl. He would not have any players talk. He would do these stupid shenanigans. And guess what he would do? He would choke. He would get nervous. He would not coach very aggressively.

And then he got smoked three out of the four years. You know what it kind of sounds like? I don't hear from Pat Narduzzi.

You know what it kind of sounds like? Who's that? Sounds like James Franklin anytime he plays a top ten team. No, because he's not a tool bag.

Yes he is. When a big game comes around. He doesn't hide his players and basically force them to live at the facility because it's Penn State week.

And every coach says, what do they say? Every week is the same. All you're worried about is the opponent that week.

Pat Narduzzi says, screw that. It's Penn State week. This is the season.

Oh, give me a break. This game is a season. And guess what? Yes, they got lucky in year number one and it may have cost Penn State a chance to be in the college world class.

Congratulations. But you know what? Other three years, not even close.

I don't want to hear it. Do you think it's a tool-ish move when you're losing a game to check the PSI level of the football? Would you classify that as a tool-ish move? I mean, plenty of teams did it for the Patriots, so I don't know. A few of my teams, I guess, have done that.

That's what James Franklin did when he got his ass kicked by Temple. But anyway, let me give you a little quote here from Ross Bjork, who is the athletic director at Texas A&M. He was talking about your guy, who now you're going to say, oh, yeah, I love him, which you can't stand him, in Jimbo Fisher. He said, built to last. That's my mantra, Bjork told ESPN.

There's no panic here. You can't be blow by the wind type of program in how you make decisions and expect to win championships in the SEC. Sure, last year was disappointing for all of us, but I look at where we are heading and so does Jimbo.

Let me ask you this. Was it the right decision by A&M to bring back Jimbo Fisher for this year? Because basically AD saying you can't be a blow by the wind guy and just off one year fire coach. No, because it's not one year.

So you're not reacting to 2022 in a vacuum. You're reacting to the entire tenure so far for Jimbo Fisher outside of the COVID year that has been, we'll say, the least underwhelming. I actually think the AD is right here in terms of like after last year, they should not have fired Jimbo Fisher. So Jimbo Fisher takes over A&M nine and four, eight and five, nine and one, eight and four. I get it, outside of the nine and one year, and you could even say that the first year where they did go nine and four, take over a program that was seven and six that you get delirious about. Last year was a disaster. Last year with all the talent that you had to be five and seven is an absolute disgrace.

Off one year, though, where that was the first really, really bad year. I'm not willing or I don't feel as if you should fire the coach. But here's what I would ask Ross Bjork. If I was doing this interview, I would say, and he'd probably give you some answer of I don't deal in hypotheticals. But if I could get Ross Bjork, you know, inject a mature serum and actually give him a get a genuine response. You say that you can't be a blow by the wind type of program and how you make decisions and expect to win championships. OK, that's fine. A lot of programs.

Ross totally understand it. Face adversity. They face hard times before they end up winning. What happens if you have a six win year this year?

What happens if you even have a seven win year this year? Like, what do you need to see from Jimbo Fisher this year to know that you're still heading in the right direction? Because right now, I don't know what direction A&M is heading in.

Right now, I know A&M has a lot of talent. I don't know if the coaching staff is going to get the most out of the talent. I like the move to bring in Bobby Petrino, but does Jimbo Fisher trust Bobby Petrino?

And at SEC Media Days, he gave multiple answers about the role of Bobby Petrino that I didn't love. So that's what I want to know, where I don't disagree with Ross Bjork bringing back Jimbo Fisher for this year. This is a prove it year for Jimbo Fisher. But what does he have to show you where everything in your quote, I couldn't really question, but you said, I look at where we're headed and so does Jimbo. My question is, last year you were five and seven with an enormous amount of talent. If you don't like, what do you have to do this year to make you say, OK, last year was just one off and now we're headed in the right direction.

And I wonder, Hickey, what that answer would be if we could get a genuine response from him. Bare minimum should be nine and three. We're talking about wins of like, how can you track progress just through a pure win loss perspective? I think anything short of nine wins, he's fired.

Should be if I was the AD should be fired. Paying all that money for what, eight and four with the talented roster loaded? No way. And you look at their schedule. They'll beat New Mexico. You play Miami and also App State last year, but they should I get they should you play Miami. Well, I don't know where Mario Cristobal's program is going to be.

I don't I like Mario Cristobal, but I don't know what Miami is going to do. That's a game you should win with the talent that you have. But I wouldn't say it's a lock. You put Louisiana Monroe. So they should be able to start the year off three now. Then you play Auburn, who has a new coach and who freeze there.

And we know Hugh freezes pass. You play Arkansas. Sam Pittman, well coached team. You play Alabama. You play Tennessee. Then you have the Gamecocks of South Carolina. Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Abilene Christian and LSU.

You know how to define it, actually? Between Alabama, Tennessee and LSU, you need to win two out of those three games. And I'm not saying I expect him to win two out of those three games because I trust Alabama more.

And I trust LSU more. Tennessee. I just don't know what to expect out of Tennessee this year. I like Josh Hypel a lot.

You always hear about the big arm of of Joe Milton. But with what they lost, I know a lot of people think the system is just going to be able to still make Tennessee be really good. I don't think it's impossible to ask A&M to beat Tennessee for this upcoming season. So basically, you've got to beat Tennessee and then split Alabama or LSU. If you can't do that, it's it's going to be tough to justify Jimbo Fisher remaining as the coach other than the contract.

Because you look at the talent. We've had people on a lot of people on this offseason that you can make the case that they have the third or fourth most talented roster in the SEC entering this season. Third or fourth. Now you're going up against, I guess you could say, a vulnerable Alabama from compared to previous years. I still think Alabama would be good.

Tennessee after losing Hendon Hooker and Jalen Hyatt. And LSU is is really good on both sides of the ball. But if they can't beat two out of those three big brands in Alabama, Tennessee and LSU. Well, look how quickly Brian Kelly has been able to get. Now I know LSU won't ask a championship not that long ago, but look at LSU last year.

They were in an SC championship game. No one's going to question Saban unless if you're Paul Finebaum like an idiot. And look at what Josh Heupel, to his credit, has done at Tennessee. Jimbo Fisher has all this talent.

Why can't he do the same? I mean, just, you know, where the programs were like LSU, A&M was in a better spot when Jimbo took over them. LSU was when Brian Kelly took over, even though they won a national title more recently.

Oh, I wouldn't agree with that. 2020 and 2021 is bad for LSU. It was bad. But at least A&M you had, what was it? Kevin Sumlin was now winning the big, like Kevin Sumlin did what Jimbo Fisher is doing now. Won eight games, could win the big one. LSU was downtrodden. They weren't embarrassed for two years. Yeah, but at LSU it's so easy to get that thing going. You've had three coaches since 2000 win a national championship. And Nick Saban, I know we look at Nick Saban differently now, but that was his first. Then you also had Les Miles, and then Ed Orgeron was never a popular hire, and look what he was able to do. So I would disagree in terms of that, but it's not as if Jimbo Fisher has really moved this program in a big direction, in a big step forward. The recruiting has been excellent. The recruiting has been excellent.

Superb. But now you need to get the talent together, and it needs to translate into wins. So this year, those three games that I mentioned, you've got to win two out of three. Do I think it's going to happen?

No. I'm not all that bullish on A&M entering this season. Larry Holder will join us next. We'll preview the Saints. Zach Gelb shows CBS Sports Radio's Steve Young still to come. 45 minutes from now.