Payton Possibilities (Hour 3)

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So get started and download the free Odyssey app today. Zach Gelb here with you on CBS Sports Radio in all week for Maggie and Pearl off in this time slot of 3 to 6 p.m. Eastern, 12 to 3 p.m. Pacific. A whole lot more to do in this hour before we wrap up shop on a Tuesday. I was just reading an article during the break and everyone is talking about Sean Payton. And where is he going to wind up next and where is he going to be coaching in 2023? And because we now just had the Broncos job open up, everyone's talking about, oh, is it going to be Denver? I would be stunned if it's Denver for a multitude of reasons. We discussed them all throughout the show.

We could rehash them quickly. Russell Wilson is now a fading quarterback. He is a declining quarterback.

He is hitting rock bottom earlier than anyone could have expected. And even if you're able to kind of dig him out of that hole a little bit and restore him a little bit, I don't think his ceiling anymore is a great quarterback. It may just be a good quarterback, like just outside of the top 10, which is crazy to say if you would have said that three years ago. But here we are now where the last year and a half before this season, a lot of us overshadowed the poor play of Russell Wilson and made excuses because, oh, we gave him the benefit of the doubt that it was Pete Carroll's fault, it was the Seahawks fault, and everything that he was saying was gospel and was true. Now we're seeing him without Pete Carroll, we're seeing him without DK Metcalf, we're seeing him without Tyler Lockett. And that team in Seattle, which was not a good team a year ago, gets rid of Russell Wilson.

They put Geno Smith in, who everyone wrote off, and Geno Smith will even tell you he didn't write back. No one thought Seattle could be a playoff team, and I'm not saying that it's a lock anymore, that they're going to be a playoff team, but at least they have a chance. Denver's season has been over, and it's been over for now more than a few weeks. And they fired Nathaniel Hackett yesterday, but if you're Sean Payton and you're someone that is a creme de la creme name on the market, why would you consider Denver? You don't have a great quarterback, you're in a conference that has great quarterbacks. Just look at the quarterbacks already that have clinched postseason births.

Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Justin Herbert. Just look at it isolating your own division if you go to Denver. You think Russell Wilson is going to be winning a division title or clinching a playoff spot when you know Kansas City or the Chargers will win that division for the foreseeable future, and then whoever doesn't win the division, and probably it's Kansas City until they don't win the division, then the other team goes to the playoffs like the Chargers clinching a postseason birth?

You don't even have to reach for the stars this year. We're talking about 7-win teams, 8-win teams here that are battling for playoff spots right now. The Jets are still alive, the Patriots are still alive with how bad they played recently. But Denver couldn't even keep this ship from sinking, and it was very evident early on this year.

So other than money with this ownership group and them being the wealthiest ownership group in the NFL, what's the reason from a football standpoint to go there? You've got a great defense, but what does a great defense mean when you've got practically nothing on offense? You've got Javonte Williams coming off an injury. You've got Courtland Sutton, Jerry Jeudy. Solid wide receivers? Good wide receivers? But are any of those guys number one wide receivers on a championship-winning team?

No? So I look at this Broncos team and where they're positioned, they're in a rough spot. They're in a brutal spot because you have one side of the ball that's ready to go, and you have the other side of the ball that can't even just be decent. Like there are teams that has a lights-out defense and their offense is just serviceable and you could go win. And you could go find a way to get into the postseason and maybe do some damage in the postseason.

But when your offense gives you absolutely nothing, I don't care how great your defense is, no one's winning with absolutely nothing on the offensive side of the ball, especially in the year of 2022 now progressing to the year of 2023. So I look at Sean, and if you're a Broncos fan, you know, get me what you're smoking out there in Denver if you think Sean's taking that job. The only way you could say logically that he would take that job is if it's just Benjamin after Benjamin after Benjamin, and then some on that paycheck. And you're like, it will have to be an outrageous amount of money when you look at that deal. He may need to go make $15 million a year to go be the next head coach of the Denver Broncos.

So it's not going to happen. I'm reading this article during the break on Pro Football Talk, and it brings up Sean and Tom Brady. Now, Tom Brady is a free agent at the end of the year. Sean's rights are still owned by the New Orleans Saints. And if you want Sean, not only you have to pay him, you also have to orchestrate a trade with the New Orleans Saints because they still own his rights. Remember this whole thing that happened in Miami?

This was Pro Football Talk Mike Flory was pointing out. Remember Miami's plan was to bring in Brady and Sean Payton. And then you had the whole Brian Flores situation.

You had the tanking, the tampering, all that stuff. And that never ended up coming to fruition. But from all the reporting and everything that we know, Sean Payton was planning on going to the Miami Dolphins. And Tom Brady was planning on going to Miami Dolphins as well.

That never came to fruition. We have recently seen the last two weeks Sean Payton and Tom Brady rubbing elbows via Zoom, all cozy doing that podcast, that Brady Let's Go podcast together on Mad Dog Sports Radio on Sirius XM. Well, you know that if Sean went to Denver, he's not going to be able to bring in Brady because of how much money they have tied up to Russell Wilson. So you start to think of destinations that need a coach and a quarterback, the team that has his rights right now are one of those teams.

And that's what Floryo brings up. And not only that, Mike Floryo said in regards to Brady and Sean Payton maybe going to the Saints as a package deal, Sean under contract there and Brady a free agent in division with Tampa Bay, but they can't franchise tag him. One source with a finger firmly on the pulse of pro football told Pro Football Talk that that Brady and Sean Payton situation is currently the worst kept secret in league circles.

So there's more and more momentum picking up for that. Now, also in this Floryo article about Tom Brady and Sean maybe linking up and joining forces in New Orleans, as the source put it, Payton's not going to Denver or Carolina. With the Chargers making the playoffs, that job isn't opening up.

The only other potential destination would be the Cowboys if Dallas loses in the opening round to the playoffs and Coach Mike McCarthy gets fired. And the only drawback to Payton going back to the Saints is that it would delay his quest to be the first coach in league history to win a Super Bowl with two different teams. We've had a bunch of coaches coach two different teams to Super Bowls, but there has never been one coach that has won a Super Bowl, let's say in New Orleans like Sean has, and then go on to win another Super Bowl somewhere else. Like Bill Parcells won two Super Bowls with the Giants, got to another Super Bowl with the Patriots, but lost to the Packers. You've had Andy Reid, I don't know who's out of order here, get to a Super Bowl with the Eagles, lose, and then go win a Super Bowl with the Kansas City Chiefs.

Dick Vermeil. We know Dick Vermeil in the 80s was the coach of the Eagles when they lost to the Raiders, and then Dick Vermeil ended up winning a Super Bowl with the greatest show on turf right at the one-yard line, literally, with the Rams as they beat Tennessee. So we have coaches that have gone on to coach different teams to Super Bowls, but no one has ever won with two different teams, and I guess that's something that Sean wants to do. Now, is that motivation a reason why if Tom Brady calls you up, Sean, and says, yeah, I'll go join you in New Orleans, what, you would say, yeah, I'm not going back to New Orleans because I want to go win a Super Bowl somewhere else?

No, I don't think that's the case. If you think Tom Brady could win you a Super Bowl in New Orleans, who cares if it's in New Orleans or somewhere else just to be obviously a unique part of NFL history. You win a Super Bowl, another one, you become a multiple Super Bowl winner. I don't think anyone's going to say, oh, Sean, congratulations on winning a Super Bowl, but you had an opportunity to do it somewhere else and become the first coach to win a Super Bowl with two different teams.

So this Super Bowl, who really cares about it? Like, of course, we'd all be praising Sean Payton for getting another Super Bowl. So you start to see the Sean Payton market really develop, and you go through the options as Florio did, and we'll go through them as well. I guess the Saints would only be a possibility if Brady is there, because if he's not there, other than just the pure addiction of coaching, and if you don't get another job that you would want to, why would you go back to New Orleans? You left New Orleans because you tried to win another Super Bowl with Drew Brees, and unfortunately Drew's body just gave out, and he was just always injured those final three years, then you were there for one year with life without Drew Brees, and you said, yeah, I've had enough. It's time to reset, it's time to go to Fox, it's time to retire, and I say that in air quotes even though you can't see me, because you knew that you didn't have anything at the quarterback position. So why would you go back there to coach Taysom Hill or Andy Dandy Dalton or Jamis Winston?

If you don't have a known commodity, a guy that excites you to be the quarterback of the Saints, you're not going back to New Orleans. So maybe that guy is Brady. So I'll say it's probably unlikely.

I wouldn't bank on it, but it is a possibility. And I trust Mike Florio a lot. I read his stuff religiously, as pro football talk is always a must-follow if you're an NFL fan, and if he's saying it's the worst kept secret in league circles that Sean wants Brady to go join him in New Orleans, then you got to start to take that seriously as well. The Chargers, I tend to agree with Florio, that Brandon Staley getting that team to the playoffs this year, and I know Justin Herbert played a large role in it, but they had every single reason why that team could have folded with all the injuries on defense with Bosa, Jordan James, J.C. Jackson. You look at the offensive side of the ball, missing Keenan Allen, missing Mike Williams. They made the playoffs. They could still go on to win their final two games of the season and have 11 wins, 10 wins, something like that. Even if they lose on wildcard weekend, I don't think the Spanos family is going to cut ties with Brandon Staley when in year number two he made the playoffs. And even though Brandon Staley often gets criticized, and I've done my fair share of criticism of Brandon Staley, it seems like the players do genuinely love and support their head football coach and Brandon Staley you saw last night after the game.

So you start to cross the Chargers off the list. I know a few weeks ago, Rappaport said he's interested in the Rams. I don't think the Rams are getting rid of Sean McVay. They wouldn't fire him, obviously. The guy's been a great coach of this league, getting to two Super Bowls, winning one, and everyone got hurt this year, but that would require Sean McVay to retire. I don't think Sean McVay's retiring. So, so far for the Sean Payton realistic destinations, if you bring in Brady to New Orleans, that's one. Then where else would you go? Like, where else are the destinations for Sean?

Dallas, that's definitely a possibility, but the Cowboys have to have problems in the postseason. Because say what you want about McCarthy. I think McCarthy's still a solid coach. He's still a good coach. And the last two years, that team in the regular season has done a heck of a job. But for Jerry Jones, who's not getting any younger, you're looking to win a Super Bowl, or we think you're looking to win a Super Bowl. If it's the same story as last year, tremendous regular season, but then come playoffs, you're one and done, or you have a very short appearance and lifespan in the playoffs, we know that Jerry has coveted Sean for years. So maybe he would say, not maybe, he probably would say goodbye to McCarthy for Sean, but that has to predicate and rely off the Cowboys falling short in the playoffs and not get into an NFC title game. And maybe getting embarrassed like they did last year up against the 49ers. So I do think the Cowboys are a possibility. And then, if the Cardinals get rid of Cliff Kingsbury, who's under contract through 2027, I don't know how Sean views Kyler Murray, but if he wants to coach next year, I would think that the Cardinals are in play as well.

So you're starting to see this Sean Payton market come to fruition. And Carolina, I don't think it's happening. Denver, I don't think it's happening. I think the three teams, the Chargers at the last line, I don't think it's happening. The three teams that could be possibilities are the Saints, if only Brady is there, the Cowboys, if McCarthy does fail in the postseason once again, and then the Arizona Cardinals if they move on from Cliff Kingsbury. What happens if, let's say, the Cowboys get to an NFC title game? I don't think they're firing Mike McCarthy. Let's say the Cardinals, they want a penny pinch, and they go, okay, we just signed our coach through 2027.

Now, we want to give them another chance. We're going to make excuses that he lost Kyler Murray towards the end of the season, that DeAndre Hopkins, because he was out the first six games of the season. Then it's just New Orleans. Now, if Brady says, I'm not going, Sean, I'm going to, let's say, San Francisco, or I'm going to Las Vegas.

If you're Sean, I didn't think the best course of action would be to wait another year and wait for the market to reset, because your stock's never going to fade. We know you're going to be a hot name in this league whenever you want to take a job, but the right job's got to be there, and I'm just wondering if the right job will be there, and there's a lot of question marks right now. So maybe it's a little bit more than we were led on to believe a few weeks ago about him going back to New Orleans. I don't think he's going back to New Orleans, though, just to coach. I think he's going back to New Orleans to win, and that means you're going to need a quarterback. And maybe Brady is that guy, but we don't know what Brady's going to do. I think the only thing we know is that Brady's going to play football next year. I don't think it's a lot he returns to Tampa Bay, so then Brady's available. But I got to think there's some other destinations that Brady would entertain before going to New Orleans. But the way that Brady could be inclined to go to New Orleans is the relationship that I guess he has a pretty damn good one, with Sean Payton going back to all these rumors of maybe the Dolphins a little while ago, and now they're doing their podcast here and there. You know, Brady's podcast having Sean on each and every week. So maybe the groundwork is being set for Brady and Coach Payton over there in New Orleans down on Bourbon Street, right?

Have a little beignet at Cafe Du Monde or something like that. I love New Orleans. And I need a vacation, I'll tell you this. After this football season, well, not this football season, but next year after football season, I got to take a calculated vacation right after the Super Bowl. Like, we'll come back, do the show for that week, and then the week after the Super Bowl, full week after the Super Bowl, I got to go somewhere.

Great. New Orleans, one of the great cities in the USA. Just phenomenal. Delicious food, party atmosphere. I love going to New Orleans. I've been there a few times. You go to New Orleans for three, four days, it's a perfect time.

The absolute perfect time. Just an unbelievable amount of fun. Emanuel, I don't know. You don't come off to me as someone that travels much with all your play-by-play responsibilities. Have you ever been to New Orleans? I have. Oh! Do you give the endorsement? The Emanuel endorsement?

I give the endorsement. I went too young, I would say. I went with the family, but it was a really good time. How old were you?

I want to say I was like 10 or 11. Oh, no. You got to be 21 looking to have some fun when you're in New Orleans. I can endorse the culture, though.

Yes, obviously. I went for Mardi Gras when I was in college. Blast. Surprised to remember any of it. And then I also went Super Bowl week, which actually, that was the Super Bowl, I'm pretty sure, where Beyonce did the halftime show. I think that was, was it 49ers? Yeah, it was 49ers and Ravens because her performance literally in the second half made a blackout occur.

A power outage. But the reason why I bring up the Beyonce story today, Beyonce was on Radio Row. So she went to Radio Row to do one interview and it was with Deion Sanders and Rich Eisen of the NFL Network. So I'm doing a show at Radio Row interviewing Dick Vermeil and Beyonce walks right behind us. The entire Radio Row as she was going, hundreds of hundred stations around the country, while she was going to do one interview with Deion Sanders, prime time, of course, and Rich Eisen of the NFL Network, the entire Radio Row just stood up and I knew that there was a commotion, but I didn't know that Beyonce was behind me because I was talking to Dick Vermeil and promoting his wine and talking about the Super Bowl and all that stuff. So the interview ends and I turn around and I had the biggest childhood crush on Beyonce. And I see Beyonce doing the interview.

And who is to my left the entire time during all this? It was J.J. Watt and it was J.J. Watt, my father and yours truly. We were all fanboying over Beyonce being at Radio Row.

And there's a video of it somewhere where like J.J. Watt, who's retiring at the end of the year, was announced today. He was like a fat kid in a candy store jumping up and down. He even made a joke. I remember he said he goes, first off, we had the best seat in the house. Beyonce was sitting down and we were standing behind her looking at Beyonce.

But not only that, he goes, I'm just going to walk over that NFL Network set and go, oh, yeah, don't have an interview with Rich Eisen just so he could go meet Beyonce. So he was a character and we will always be linked together. My father, yours truly and beyond and J.J. Watt all just going nuts over Beyonce being at Radio Row. So congratulations, by the way, J.J. Watt.

I'll remember you as the as the person that I was just geeking out about when we were sharing that moment together when Beyonce walked by us. And yeah, we'll also remember you as one of the most ferocious football players we've ever seen and one of the more dominant football players ever. And what a great human being J.J. Watt is as well. So congratulations to J.J. Watt retiring at the end of the season. And I'm sure right, like everyone, there will then be watch next year, like week seven, week eight, when the defensive lineman gets hurt.

Is J.J. Watt going to come out of retirement? Zach Gelb here with you on CBS Sports Radio. We'll be right back. There's a lot to listen to.

So get started and download the free Odyssey app today. What's the strangest thing you're afraid of? Tails without fur on them, such as rats or possums. I'm Larry Mullins, host of the podcast Your Weirdest Fears, where we dig into the crazy things you're afraid of. Everything from animal people hybrids. You know, people who get surgeries to look like an animal to giant statues.

If I ever saw one of those giant statues, I probably would poop my pants. Listen and subscribe on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts from. Zach Gelb here with you on CBS Sports Radio. Let's play a little bit from this press conference with George Payton and also Mr. Penner as they did speak to the media today. Greg Penner, the owner of the Denver Broncos, and then George Payton, of course, the general manager. I want to hear the first one. This is why the Broncos didn't make a move in order to fire Nathaniel Hackett because of Russell Wilson.

Let's hear how that sounded. I don't think we made a coaching move based on Russ. That wasn't what it's all about. That's not why we're getting a new coach to turn around Russ. It's about the entire organization. It's about the entire football team.

It's just not one player. It's not whether Russ is fixable or not. We do believe he is.

We do. So that was George Payton, the Broncos' general manager. So I find it funny where they go, oh, we didn't make this move because of Russ.

Yeah, you did. Because Russ A has been horrible. And you know that you have really nowhere to go right now with all the resources that you gave up to get Russell Wilson.

And more importantly, how the money does play on out with the contract and how the dead cap is so large right now you can't afford, well, you could afford, but it just logically does not make sense to move on from him even though his play is horrible just because of how much it would hurt you in the dead cap. So what you're doing is you're saying goodbye to Nathaniel Hackett, who deserved to be fired, by the way, because it wasn't just the quarterback. You have players fighting on the sideline. You have the fans counting down the play clock going back to earlier in the season. Like, there was a lot of other crap here. But really getting rid of Hackett is the last straw of, okay, Russ, the first half of the season you didn't really get much of the blame. Then when everyone just got fatigued of Nathaniel Hackett realizing he was just beating a dead horse at this point, then they started to turn their attention to you. But this is in Seattle, where even though that's a Hall of Fame coach that was there in Pete Carroll, where everyone said, oh, it's Pete's fault, it's Pete's fault, it's Pete's fault, let's not blame Russell Wilson for his poor play. Now we've seen you with the new coach, we've seen you away from Pete Carroll, and you were horrible this year. So logically, they made this move mainly because Russ was horrible.

And now it's okay, Russ, you got to show us that you could be the guy because you may behind the scenes go, oh, it was on the Nathaniel Hackett's vault, and that's how you could kind of spin it publicly even though we're not stupid. But if next year, let's say they bring in, I don't know, Dan Quinn, or you're bringing Jim Caldwell, or you're bringing Frank Reich, D'Amico Ryans, whoever the coach is. If the quarterback's still the same thing, then it's two different regimes where the quarterback's been awful. Could even go back to three with how he played the final year and a half when Pete Carroll was his coach.

So let's not sugarcoat this. Let's not have the training wheels on Russell Wilson anymore. Russ, you got your coach fired. Now, he got himself fired for other reasons too, but your poor play and you not being able to weather the storm when he was making that adjustment from being an offensive coordinator to a head coach is the biggest reason why your coach got fired.

So that's number one. Number two is George Payton again, how the new head coach has to have a relationship with Russ in the backup. I think it's really important that whoever we hire has a relationship with the quarterback, Russ, whoever, the court, the backups, but the entire offense as well.

The entire defense. We need someone to fix the special teams. So really, all three phases is what we want our coach to be an expert in.

Yeah, no crap. But the first part I thought was funny when you just said you weren't making this move to get rid of Nathaniel Hackett because of Russell Wilson, but then the new coach has to have a great relationship with Russell Wilson. Obviously, the new coach has to have a great relationship with Russell Wilson. But I think the most important thing is that new coach needs to have some cojones. That new coach needs to come in and say Russ, the stuff that you pulled last year, the way that you alienated your teammates, you isolated yourself from the team, you had your whole entourage come on in and everything.

That's not happening anymore. And I don't care how mad you are because you don't have a like to stand on even though you've done some great things in this league because you were an awful quarterback. Like think about it. We had Jay Gruden on earlier, former NFL head coach. And sometimes I know the Gruden family doesn't have a filter.

Like that's clear. But a lot of these times, these former NFL head coaches, when they're doing these radio interviews, they don't really say much. Jay Gruden, who still works in the NFL, he's a consultant to the Rams. He said Russell Wilson right now isn't a top 25 quarterback in the NFL, let alone a top 10 quarterback. So you look at that right now, that's coming from a guy that was a former head coach in this league. And say what you want about Jay as a head coach, the guy knows offense. And that's how bad Russell Wilson has been.

So when you think you're the man, you have this big ego, people could tolerate it when you're winning. People could tolerate it when you're playing great football. But when you're playing like dog crap, which Russell Wilson has been playing all throughout this year, all those antics, all those things that happen with Russell Wilson, that's why you get clowned. And I've never seen someone go from being pretty much like a likable guy, a good quarterback in this league, in one offseason. And everyone, every Tom, Dick, and Harry, when that trade was made, got on the radio, got on television and said, oh, what a deal for the Denver Broncos. Oh, unbelievable.

Like I said it too. Now, I didn't think that they were going to make the playoffs this year, but I didn't think it was going to be this bad. But now the way that we talk about Russell Wilson, he's the punchline to every joke. It's a guy that was going to go to the Hall of Fame easily. And now he's getting dragged through the mud because he does a lot of corny things, let's just say. He does a lot of things where it's like, oh, that's cringe-worthy, like the Danger Witch commercial.

Now, I would do probably a lot of stupid things to get money and endorse products, but like, that's me, the talk show host. You have Russell Wilson, the millionaire quarterback whose wife also makes a fortune too, and he just wants to be a star. I don't know if he wants to be a great quarterback anymore. He wants to be a star. He wants to be an iconic brand. Well, I'll tell you about your brand right now. Your brand right now is about being a joke because that's the way everyone's viewing you.

Everyone's laughing. And it almost makes me want to have some sympathy for Russ, but then I'm like, oh, he did this to himself. So the new coach needs to come in and this new coach has to keep the quarterback in check, have some cojones, give him a little tough love. But with that being said, with the way that contract is, does Russ even care who the new coach is? Because he knows he's got the power. There's no doubt about that.

Now, a lot of people be looking around that to say Russ has taken a beating. OK, Nathaniel Hackett got fired. Why is the general manager, George Paden, still here? Why is he the guy that made the trade for Russell Wilson, the guy that hired Nathaniel Hackett?

Why is he still in charge? Well, it's nice of George to take some blame for what has occurred with the Denver Broncos. I take full responsibility for where we are as a football team. I brought in the head coach. I brought in most of the players.

Those are my decisions. And there's no one to blame but me. I would have loved to have been at that press conference.

Guy just admitted, yeah, it's all his fault while he did it. OK, so then why are you here? Zach Gelb from the Denver Times or whatever the newspaper is out there. I just made some newspaper up there.

Sure, there's like probably something similar to that. Why are you still here? Why are you still talking to us with the way that you've just continued to ruin this franchise?

Oh, geez. Let's hear from the owner, Greg Penner, who what rich people do when they're annoyed is they just write a fat check. And that may be the only way someone is going to be able to take this Broncos job, because it is a brutal, brutal job and it's the least attractive job on the market right now. Greg Penner on the traits he's looking for in the new head football coach. Instilling a sense of accountability, discipline and and we need an identity on on offense. And so but at the starting point, it's got to be about culture and leadership and those characteristics are what we'll be focused on the most.

Yeah, culture, leadership, no doubt. But we just need an identity on offense because we just gave away all this draft capital. We brought in this quarterback who has been very fraudulent and we're paying him a lot of money.

And our identity right now is that we are bleep show on offense. So we need someone with a pulse on offense side of the ball. The thing hack, it was an offensive coordinator, but also can be a head coach in this league, someone that could make us go from awful to like, we're OK. That's basically what he just said. And finally, here's Greg Penner on the conversations he's had with George Payton, because a lot of people and even so concerted was not in his head when I said this. I go, OK, well, you had George Payton go out there and hire Nathaniel Hackett.

He went out there and traded for Russell Wilson, but he gets to keep his job. Here's the owner explaining why George Payton is still around and the conversations that they've had. George and I have had a chance to get to know each other.

We talk every day since we purchased the team a number of months ago. And he acknowledged right up front, you know, there are a couple of decisions that haven't worked out as he had expected. But I understand his thought process. He understands the work that needs to be done in this offseason.

And I'm going to rely on him heavily as we go through and make these changes. Greg, you know what this is like? Like, let's say you were the program director here at CBS Sports Radio. And let's say I was like this crappy talk show host, but you guys paid me a lot of money. And let's say you then also brought in another talk show host who who was like awful as well, but you paid him a lot of money. And then let's say that they don't fire you, but they fire like the assistant program director and the headhunter comes to you. And right away you go, yeah, this is all on me. I apologize.

I genuflect to you. And then you get to keep your job. It's like, what world do you get to keep your job there?

I think it shows that, like you said, you can cut a check when you're that wealthy. And this is the first year of the Walton Penner ownership and it's gone as bad as can be expected. And now you need somebody in there that really understands how to run a team in this league, because clearly at the top, they have no idea what they're doing. Keeping this guy around is is just gross. Like it should just be coaches out. You brought the coach in your route because we know that GM coach forced relationships generally don't work.

Agreed. You got to have the GM bring in the coach and then they can coexist. But to have this guy involved again, we're going to be having the same conversation a year from now. It might not be as bad as this year, but you're heading that down that path once again. I have a tough time believing that it could get worse, but. I don't know how much better it's going to get.

It's not a one year fix, right? Like given all the problems that we've talked about this on all of these shows, the cap situation because of the contract you've given him. And those guys don't believe in the loss of draft picks and the fact that not even a full season in, he's lost the locker room and guys seemingly don't like him. I mean, it's a show. It's as bad as you can draw it up. It's actually incredible that that it's gone this way.

I don't think Hollywood could write this. No, this is one of the greatest comedies that you'll ever see. It really is. And I actually do feel for Broncos fans because you thought it was bad when it was like Joe Flacco, Trevor Simeon and Brock Osweiler and Drew Locke and Teddy Bridgewater, like whoever these guys brought in. You got teased because you got Ross was like, yeah, we finally got the known guy. Here comes Russell Wilson.

And after one year, it's like, what was I getting excited for? You know, who's breathing a sigh of relief? John Elway got out just in time, right? Because he's because he's not he's made a lot of bad decisions that is heavily involved, right? So, yeah, it's like, well, why did they get rid of Elway?

Why is he no longer? It's like, thank God for that. Yeah, you don't get that. Even though Elway has an all time great legacy as a quarterback and always be loved in Denver, it was getting really ugly. It's like, dude, you're one of the all time great quarterbacks and you can't find the quarterback now always saying, see, it's not as easy as it looks. And it makes your Russell Wilson uniform gift to your producer, Ryan Hickey, that much more enjoyable. Yeah, it makes it even better now as a president.

I'll admit it after it's the holiday season that was done in a little bit of trolling because hot take. Hickey said, oh, Russell Wilson, he's going to win the Super Bowl MVP this year. He's going to win it all.

And it's going to coach Bill Belichick to be a top three coach in the NFL. That was hot take Hickey. So that's why I got him. Does anybody else here just a striking resemblance? I mean, you close your eyes. You would almost think he's in the room. That's unbelievable. Yeah, until you open your eyes and you're like, you say hubba hubba for for Hickey. He would be like, oh, no.

Yeah, no, I got to tell him to put his shirt back on. Bart Winkler will stop by before he hosts the Zach Gelb show coming up at the top of the hour. Zach Gelb here with you on CBS Sports Radio filling in for Maggie and Perloff. Zach Gelb here with you on Maggie and Perloff filling in this entire week from 3 to 6 p.m. Eastern.

And coming up at the top of the hour is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio and filling in for me today. Since I'm filling in for Maggie and Perloff will be my dear, dear, dear friend from Milwaukee in Bart Winkler. And we'll do a little crosstalk with Bart right now. Bart, what's going on? Zach, my good friend, how are you?

I'm doing fantastic. We were talking about this earlier in the show with Justin Herbert now locking up a postseason berth. And it looking like Trevor Lawrence is also going to win the AFC South. The quarterbacks in the AFC, Bart to the NFC in terms of guys that you're looking at that are going to lead your team for the next five to 10 years. It's crazy the difference when you see guys like Josh Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Lamar Jackson when he comes back.

Justin Herbert, probably Trevor Lawrence as well. And then it's like in the NFC, okay, Jalen Hurts had a really good season. Kirk Cousins not going to be their quarterback for the next five years. Who knows who's playing quarterback for the Niners next year.

Dak has been good, not great. Brady's probably somewhere else next season. And then, yeah, Daniel Jones is probably back with the Giants next year. But we don't know how great of a quarterback he could be. There's a big disparity there from the AFC to the NFC. Well, and I think too when you look at the playoffs and what team might get out of just this year. You're going to look at these teams and say, well, the Chiefs have Mahomes. So, can Mahomes beat Josh Allen?

Can Joe Burrow beat Lamar Jackson? That's kind of how the narrative is going in that conference. And then in the NFC, I'm telling you, you ask anybody, 9 out of 10 people on the street who they think is going to win that conference. And they're going to say the San Francisco 49ers. And it's like nobody cares about quarterback in the NFC. We just saw Jalen Hurts be, you know, not in the game, I guess is what I'm trying to say, against the Cowboys.

And Gardner Minshew, they had a nice performance. Dallas ultimately taking that. But we're not talking Dak. We're talking about the Cowboys.

We're not talking Hurts. We're talking about the Eagles and the wide receivers and their defense. And Brock Purdy is going to be the quarterback of a team.

And nobody even cares about that. It's all Debo and their running game and the defense and Bosa. So, in the AFC, they are heavily stacked at quarterback.

And that's where a lot of the conversation goes. But in the NFC, there really isn't one or two of those guys. And so, we're talking about best team.

I think that's the best example of the disparity between the conferences right now. Is you ask anybody who's going to win the NFC and a lot of people are going to take a team that's quarterbacked right now by Brock Purdy. And also, you look at the Russell Wilson conversation because that's so big. And who's going to be the next Broncos head coach with all that we laid out.

How these quarterbacks are young and loaded in the AFC. It's like, okay, if you take that Broncos job. And I know as a competitor, you don't get afraid of other people.

And you shouldn't or else you're definitely going to lose. But just in that division, you're going to have to compete against Herbert, Emma, Holmes, wherever long your contract is. And one of those two teams will win the division and the other one, barring major injuries, are going to the playoffs.

So, if you're trying to fix Denver, that's even going to be tougher. Not only because Russell Wilson isn't great anymore and that team doesn't believe it. But just look at the guys you have to compete with in that own division. You have to hit on quarterbacks. And you have to hit on them early.

And they have to be good for a long time. Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow. These are guys that were drafted by their team. They eventually get in and they have MVP type careers. And they take their teams to where they want to go. To the promised land of the Super Bowl or competing. And then I think it's hard for these other teams to try to catch up to that if they don't have one of those guys.

We've seen the Colts now for five years trying to, you know, repair a sinkhole in their boat with duct tape. And just get whoever. We see teams like, teams like even Arizona. I'm not sure how good Kyler Murray really is. But the Cardinals were in a situation where they're like, I don't know that we're going to get any better here.

This guy's good enough. So we just, we're going to have to pay him and ride him out. He's not been a success, I don't think. And he's been hurt. And then Denver, they think they have a guy who's just damaged goods from a different franchise. But they don't have their young guy in Drew Lock or anybody.

So they're trying to keep up. So if you don't have that young guy, it seems like teams are throwing a lot of resources to try to get a guy to compete. And if that doesn't work out, that's going to set your franchise back for a while, which we're seeing now in Denver specifically.

Where do you think Sean Payton's coaching next year, by the way? Did I hear you saying that New Orleans was in play again? Yeah, Florio had this article saying that a source told him it's the worst kept secret that Sean and Brady are talking about maybe going to New Orleans together. Yeah, Florio also wrote today that it's better to be the Packers on the road going to San Francisco and then maybe Philly than it would for them to be the one seed and get a bye.

So I'll take a little, I'll call shenanigans on that. Now let me just give a quick disclaimer. I'm a big fan of Mike Florio, he writes a lot of pieces about me. I love pro football talk, so that's Bart. He does?

Oh yeah, all the time. I love Florio. I'm a big Florio guy. He's given me a lot of publicity. Now we've also given him some good clips. So the Bart bashing of Mike Florio is not endorsed by one Zach Gelb. I can't control what Bart's going to say though. No, I've been a little mosquito on him for years trying to get him to acknowledge me and he always ignores me when I tweet at him online. I actually got him a fly swatter for the holiday season to kind of just swat you away anytime you come back.

Yeah, just put my stupid ugly face on it. Where do I think Sean Payton's going to go? Gosh, I don't know. Dallas, Arizona, right? If those jobs open. I don't think Dallas opens.

When is Arizona going to open? Kingsbury doesn't even want to be there. Look at him. He looks so sad all the time. Well, he's also getting paid through 2027, so that could be a reason why that job doesn't open up. But yeah, he does look miserable on that sideline, which I don't get why.

It's not like he's been super duper successful anywhere as a head coach. I would just be fortunate to be there. One more, Bart, because we're running out of time.

I know you've got to host my show coming up at the top of the hour. Where's the confidence level? And I know you've been very down in the Packers and deservedly so. I thought there was no shot to make the playoffs last week. Now they're 7-8.

They had everything go their way. Two games left on the season. Minnesota and then Detroit are the Packers out of 100%. How likely do you think it is that they're going to make the playoffs? Maybe 80 at this point.

Wow, that high that they're going to? What I've been saying all year as a Packer fan is I don't like that we've been a team that is 4-8 and our fan base has to play playoff scenarios and let's go on a magic carpet ride. We're the Green Bay Packers.

We shouldn't be in this position. I saw Aaron Rodgers, my beloved QB, on Pat McAfee's shows today saying, Go Browns. Rodgers, you should be good enough to never put yourself in a position where you have to root for the Browns to beat the Commanders in Week 17.

I'm absolutely disgusted by it, but I do think the Packers have a pretty good chance of getting in. That's why I love you, Bart. Have a good show tonight hosting the, what is it called, the Zach Gelb Show, I believe. Who's the name of that jackass? Yeah, a favorite of one, Mike Florio, I've heard.

Yes, that is true. I love Mike Florio. Me too.

There we go. So there is Bart Winkler who will be hosting my show and many of the same CBS Sports Radio affiliate series, XM Channel 158, and that free Auditsy app in about five minutes. Big thanks to Emmanuel, big thanks to each and every one of you, Chad Brown, and also Jay Gruden.

You can follow me on Twitter, at Zach Gelb, also Instagram as well. We'll see you tomorrow, everybody. We out.

Bye bye. Peace! What makes your skin crawl? No matter how absurd.

I want to know. Tails without fur on them, such as rats or opossums. I'm Larry Mullins, the host of a new podcast called Your Weirdest Fears. You send me your fear.

I'm just so weirded out about the texture and how they can just move around and flop. And then I go to the experts to learn how to overcome them. Listen and subscribe to Your Weirdest Fears on the Auditsy app or wherever you get your podcast from. Throughout the 60s and 70s, cops hunted down key figures of the Dixie Mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, Kirksey Nicks. I'm interested in making money. I'm not interested in hurting people. Fifteen years into Kirksey's life sentence, the Dixie Mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South, a documentary podcast from C-13 Originals, a Cadence 13 studio. Season two, The Dixie Mafia, available now on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.