Hi, from the Salvation Army, you're listening to Words of Life. Welcome back to Words of Life.
It is an honor to share the next three episodes that we're about to share with you. We are being joined by our new friend, Dr. Craig Keener. Dr. Keener is currently a professor of biblical studies at Asbury Theological Seminary. He's written well over 30 books and his books have won 13 national and international awards, including six from Christianity Today.
Dr. Keener is the New Testament editor for the NIV Cultural Background Study Bible. He's former editor of the Bulletin for Biblical Research and former program chair for the Institute of Biblical Research. He was an atheist throughout his young adult life until he had an encounter with God. And he's now a passionate follower of Jesus Christ, a husband, a teacher, author, and genuinely incredibly interesting and kind human being. It was an honor just to sit in the room as he and Bernie Dake had the following conversation. Again, this is part one of a three week series with Dr. Craig Keener.
Enjoy. You guys are saying this to me from the Bible, but I don't believe in the Bible. I'm an atheist.
So where do we go from here? One of the reasons I didn't believe in God was because at that time 80% of the people in the country claimed to be Christians, but I couldn't tell by how most of them lived that they really believed it. And finally, I just mean, how can you be an atheist when God is in the room with you?
So I, I fell on my knees. God, thank you so much for bringing this kindred spirit to us, introducing excitement about who you are and what your word can mean to this world. God, I pray that you'd continue to reveal yourself through each of us and the commitments that we've made to you. And if that can be an encouragement to others, and we will be faithful to give you the glory, help us discern the way that you want this conversation to go so that it can be used in the most effective way possible. Lord, we love you.
We know already that you can use this and we'll use it for your good. So we give you the glory in Jesus name. Amen. There's no place like Israel, rich in history, culture, and spiritual significance. From walking through ancient Jerusalem to floating in the Dead Sea or experiencing Tel Aviv's modern energy, it's a destination like no other. While I haven't visited yet, I've heard how life changing it is. Now more than ever, we stand with Israel and pray for peace. I look forward to exploring its beauty one day.
Learn more at goisrael.com. Welcome back to Words of Life. I'm Bernie Dake, and I am so excited to have on the show quite possibly one of the best guests we've ever had in the form of Dr. Craig Keener.
Dr. Keener, welcome. It's great to be with you. I don't know if I'm one of the best guests, but I am in the form of Craig Keener.
Well, you know, from a communications point of view, when you say one of the best, you're not ruling out anybody else. You're just, you know, but you do come with some incredible accolades and we are excited to have your perspective, your brain, all of the education that you bring, the prowess that you have as it relates to an understanding of God's word, your salvation story. There's so much that we want our listeners to know about you, but for a greater purpose, because we want them to know about the Lord in you and how he's using you to encourage others.
So let's get to that. What is your background story? Where did you come from?
Tell us about Craig Keener. I grew up in Ohio. My parents were great in many ways, but it wasn't a Christian home. I didn't really hear the gospel growing up. I had decided this was purely my own fault, but I had decided that we could explain the universe without recourse to the hypothesis of a God. I didn't really know physics very well.
I thought I did. But anyway, I had a purely naturalistic worldview. I started reading Plato and thought, well, maybe some of this makes sense too, except he got me thinking about the question of infinity, eternity, and life beyond death, but his arguments weren't persuasive. And so I was like, yeah, I'm just finite, infinitesimally impossible coincidence.
My life is just meaningless. It wasn't a very positive worldview, but I tried to construct something positive out of it. But one day, some people came to me on the street and started sharing with me about Jesus. And they said, if you died, where would you go?
Well, that got my attention, because that was a really important question. But they started sharing with me that Jesus died for me and rose again so I could have eternal life. And I was like, you guys, you're saying this to me from the Bible, but I don't believe in the Bible. I'm an atheist, so where do we go from here?
I did know a few things about Christians, not all of the things I knew were correct. But I said, if there's a God, where did the dinosaur bones come from? We ask a stupid question, you get a stupid answer. They said, the devil put them there to throw us off. I said, okay, you guys, I'm done.
I'm leaving. So they weren't trained in paleontology. But what they had given me was what the Bible said about Jesus dying for us and rising from the dead to make us right with God. So they couldn't answer some of my intellectual questions.
But God could. And as I walked home, you know, I'd studied different religions, and many philosophies. But this was different, because suddenly, I was experiencing the overwhelming presence of God. This was so inescapable.
I got home, I wrestled with this for like 45 minutes. And finally, I mean, how can you be an atheist when God is in the room with you? So I fell on my knees. I always said, if I ever knew there was a God, I would give God everything. One of the reasons I didn't believe in God was because, like at that time, 80% of the people in the country claimed to be Christians, but I couldn't tell by how most of them lived that they really believed it, that it really made a difference for them. But I said, God, I'll believe it. But God, I don't understand how Jesus dying and rising from the dead, how that makes me right with you. But if that's what you say, then I believe it. But God, I don't know how to be made right with you.
So if you want to make me right with you, I need you to do it yourself. And all of a sudden, and I know this is not normal for everybody, but all of a sudden, I felt something rushing through my body like I'd never felt before. I jumped up scared out of my mind. But I said, Okay, God, I know you're real.
So from now on, I'm going to follow you. I had a lot of catching up to do there with little kids in Sunday school and know more about the Bible than I did. How old were you at that point in your life? I was 15 at that point.
Wow. And I started reading Plato at 13. And I said I was an atheist by nine. And I postulated infinite regression when they asked me who the beginner was when I was about 11. So what I really didn't know much. I was dealing with theoretical stuff. I didn't know about Jesus very much. So yeah, I think it's really cool when people test or try to challenge God's existence and how he can reveal himself to each individual individually. And he met you at a place intellectually that was well, not because of the dinosaur bones were put there by whoever, but there were some questions that were planted there that, you know, thank God, have grown like a tree.
That's beautiful. So then you went into education, you started to study as a doctor. I assume you've been in school for a few years. Yeah, it was 12 years of college. So yeah, that's a way to traumatize small children. I'm in 24th grade now.
But yeah, I did my PhD at Duke University. And it was in the New Testament in Christian origins. The ship's drifting out of control. Get out of there now. What happened? His card snapped. Some called it impossible.
Okay, thanks. I don't know where I am. Others call it a miracle. He's not.
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Only in theaters this Friday. There's no place like Israel, rich in history, culture and spiritual significance. From walking through ancient Jerusalem to floating in the Dead Sea or experiencing Tel Aviv's modern energy, it's a destination like no other. While I haven't visited yet, I've heard how life changing it is. Now more than ever, we stand with Israel and pray for peace. I look forward to exploring its beauty one day.
Learn more at GoIsrael.com. As we were talking kind of before the interview, we were trying to determine if there's a sort of a root cause for people being separated from the Lord. For you, you grew up in a home where your parents weren't believers.
And so that makes sense. There was an absence sort of, of maybe someone who grew up in a home with a Bible believing family or a church attending family and all the rest. But what are some of the other things that you mentioned? I was intrigued by your first statement about people probably don't want to give up their sin. And that's a big one.
For me, that wasn't... Well, I didn't want to give up my intellectual pride, so I guess it was part of the problem for me. But also, sometimes people are turned off by hypocrisy or the historic things that the church has done wrong, hypocritically. One of the things when I was coming to Jesus I had to reckon with, Christianity doesn't rise or fall on Christians. It rises or falls on Jesus Christ.
And He can make us what we should be. We can't use other people as an excuse because of what they are, if they're not living for Christ. I mean, sometimes people say, well, Christianity is racist because they've experienced racist Christianity. But I mean, white Christians are just a minority of Christians globally.
And there are other kinds of things that people raise. Sometimes scientific objections, the supposed conflict between science and religion, which actually was made up by a couple of scholars in the late 1800s, actually contradicted the historical record and is debunked by most historians of science today, and yet is still parroted on a popular level as if that's correct history. And I guess it would be a hundred years ago, the predictions being made were, you know, the universe is infinite in its time past and infinite in its space, otherwise we'd have to postulate a beginner. Well, now we know it's not infinite in the past and not infinite in space. I mean, the scientific objections are not really a matter of scientific study, and many scientists can tell you that.
They're more a matter of philosophy of science. Sure. I think one other thing you said, and you sort of intimated this, you know, maybe someone was mean to them as a Christian to someone. And I can understand why some people feel like there have been misrepresentatives of the Christian faith, just because of our Christians. And, you know, for our listeners and for people listening to this program, maybe for the first time, I hope that your interactions with other Christians have been positive. We are meant to be a loving people.
That is the Jesus that we know who is loving and forgiving and gracious for sure. So there's so much there to talk about. Dr. Keener, I do want to know what are you doing now with all that education? Are you teaching? I mentioned at the beginning, you've written so many books.
There's, I think there's 37 books. Is that true? Yeah. Wow. So what are you doing when you're not writing? Sleeping?
No. I'm a professor of New Testament at Asbury Theological Seminary. When I think about all of the things that I'm hearing in the world today of God revealing himself through his word, I find myself drawn to people that have done much, much more intellectual work than I have done such as yourself. So thank you and your team for training up another generation of deep thinkers and theologians. I really hope you enjoyed part one of our three-part conversation with Dr. Craig Keener. Honestly, I feel like each of these episodes get a bit deeper, so please join us for the next two weeks as we continue to pick his brain on topics that he is really passionate about.
He spent a good bit of his career studying extra biblical resources to prove the credibility of the Bible. And so if that's something that interests you, you are not going to want to miss the next two weeks. So please subscribe to Words of Life on your favorite podcast store or visit words of lifepodcast.org. And please feel free to go to the contact page and reach out to us.
We would love to hear your thoughts on these episodes. Until next week, have a great week and God bless. The Salvation Army's mission, doing the most good means helping people with material and spiritual needs. You become a part of this mission every time you give to the Salvation Army. Visit salvationarmyusa.org to offer your support. You can subscribe to Words of Life on your favorite podcast store or visit salvationarmysoundcast.org. Join us next time for the Salvation Army's Words of Life. Thanks so much for listening to Words of Life. We want to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the show. Visit lifeaudio.com where you'll find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in their network.
They have shows about prayer, Bible studying, parenting and more. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time. The ship's drifting out of control.
Get out of there now. What happened? His card snapped. Some called it impossible.
Others call it a miracle. Focus Features presents the inspirational true story that kept the world breathless. Starring Woody Harrelson and Simu Liu. Last Breath based on the true story. Rated PG-13. Maybe inappropriate for children under 13.
Only in theaters this Friday. Have you ever attempted to read the entire Bible? Did you do it or did you only make it part way? I'm John Stonguey, and I host a podcast that will make it possible for you to make it through the entire Bible, one chapter at a time. I've been hosting the Chapter a Day audio Bible podcast since 2015, and every single day of the week I read one chapter of scripture, then follow that up with a time of prayer. And if you're looking for daily insights and inspiration directly from God's Word, I hope you'll give the Chapter a Day audio Bible a listen. You can find it at LifeAudio.com or on your favorite podcasting app.
