How Do I Enter a New Church? (rewind)

Welcome back to Words of Life. This is the final episode of our rerun of a series we did in 2023, Raised to Stay, with author, pastor, worship leader, Natalie Runyon. If you're new to Words of Life, we really hope that you've enjoyed this series. It was definitely a favorite of ours, and I just felt that it was so powerful and healing for so many listeners. If you want to learn more about Natalie Runyon and her ministry, visit NatalieRunyon.com or find her on social media at Raised to Stay.

Natalie has actually been a guest on our show twice. The second time we did a series with her based on a women's discipleship course she developed. So visit our website, WordsOfLifePodcast.org, and we'll have links to that series as well. We're so excited about the series and interviews that we have planned for this year. So follow us on social media, Salvation Army Soundcast, to find out what's coming up next.

And if you have a moment, please leave us a review on whatever platform you're listening. That's a huge help to us. Have a great week, and God bless. So if you're coming out of a season that has just been a mud fight, you know, you need to walk into the church and give yourself some time to recover from that. And I want to be a hope bearer. I want to be a hope dealer.

I want to be the one that's waiting with my arms open, even if I'm limping. That's why I show up. Welcome back to Words of Life.

I'm Bernie Dake. For the last time, sadly, in this series, I'm joined by Natalie Runyon. Man, it's sad. It's our last one. It has gone by super fast.

It has. But I am excited to share your experience with our listeners because I want them to know they're not alone. I think there's a lot of people out there, particularly people that are part of a church staff or a congregational ministry of some sort, who have experienced hurt. And we want to be a part of the change and encourage people to stay. One way you could do that is by checking out Natalie's new book that comes out July 4th, 2023, called Raised to Stay. You can find it anywhere you can buy books. And I know that that would be a wonderful support of your ministry, which is also hugely popular on Instagram.

These black boxes of encouragement that you've got. Check out at Raised to Stay if you haven't seen it. Check Engine Light on. Take the guesswork out of your Check Engine Light with O'Reilly Veriscan.

It's free and provides a report with solutions based on over 650 million vehicle scans verified by ASE certified master technicians. And if you need help, we can recommend a shop for you. Ask for O'Reilly Veriscan today. Natalie, this week for our wrap up, I just want to talk about kind of getting to a new place in sort of the pre-interview. You said some golden thoughts about the idea of Saul and Paul, and I want to get to that place for our listeners in particular.

How do we do that? Well, I've had to learn to walk into every church staff, every church that I'm new in and assume that there are just things I don't know. That there are backstories and there's history and there are personalities and personal things happening in all of our lives that we wouldn't shout from the rooftops of strangers, but that we're trying to do good and holy work while also being very human and going through very human things. So a lot of us are hesitant to step foot back into a church or back into leadership in a church after we've been hurt or wounded or disappointed. It's just a terrifying thought that it's going to happen again. And I've learned that if you love people, you are going to get hurt.

So congratulations. If you've been hurt by the church, it means you've loved the church. And I would rather get to heaven and be told I loved too much than I didn't love enough, knowing that that's the great command to love God, love people, and then the great commission to go and make disciples. So I want to be generous in the way that I love people, but also I'm always going to be hesitant. How can I trust again? How can I let people back into my life again?

How do I know that they're not going to do the same thing to me? And the truth is we don't know. When it comes to leadership, we all want Paul. We all want the Paul who spoke so highly of Timothy, who says to the church, you're never going to meet anyone better than this guy. I mean, that's like the hope of what people would say about us when we serve in leadership is, man, you have no idea how great Bernie is. You're in good hands with him. You can trust what he has to say.

That's the goal. But we don't always get the Paul. Sometimes we get the Saul and we get the un-Jesus-fied version of people in their season of life.

And we want to scream from the rooftops, watch out for that person. We see them in other roles in leadership and they're mentoring other people. But what we forget is sometimes we get the Saul version and somebody else could get the Paul version and it's unfair and it's heartbreaking, but that's the reality of humans being in ministry. I heard the president of a Bible college in the Midwest talk about we all have a little bit of Saul in us. And in his context, what he was saying was there's not a difference between the called or not called.

We're all called. And it could be to a different type of ministry. It might not be congregational ministry or church staff, but for those of us that are in the church ministry, which is really where you're focusing with Raised to Stay, I hope that people are hearing first that you're not alone. Second, that there is hope.

And lastly, that you can buy Natalie's book anywhere you can find books. Just kidding. But there is hope for tomorrow. And because of courageous people who are willing to step into the mess and help get it cleaned up, or at least offer courage to be a part of the cleanup or the restoration even.

Man, there's just so much that you have to share with us that we can use to strengthen the kingdom through the vehicle of church staff and people that are doing it. In 2012, I went, actually it was 2013, I went to Haiti and it was right after the earthquake. Like the earthquake that killed, I believe it was close to 300,000 people.

It was the worst natural disaster that that country has ever seen, but like the second or third in all of history. And we're in this tap tap and we're driving to an orphanage and they stop us next to this massive iron gate. And there are these beautiful Haitian children and their Sunday best standing at the gate. And I look up and I realized that we're at a burial site, one of the mass graveyards of this entire country.

It was just huge. It was rolling hills of bodies that had been buried. And we get out and I asked the guide, I said, why are these kids here? Are they like here to go pay their respects to their parents?

And he said, no, they're actually waiting for their parents to come get them. And every Sunday they would put on their church outfits and they would climb through the rubble of what was left of Port-au-Prince and they would walk with everything that they had and go stand at that gate with anticipation that their family was going to come get them, even though they knew very well that they had not survived. And the Lord said, this is a picture of the church. We are to be that open gate for the orphan who has hope that somebody's coming for them. And if we continue to keep our doors shut or not show up because we're afraid we're going to get hurt, we're going to miss out on being the welcoming arms to bring in a lost son or daughter of the almighty one.

And that's what the enemy's banking on is that we are so offended and so hurt and so wounded that we forget the least of these, that we forget why the church exists. And it is to be that place for the lost and the broken and the homeless and the widow and all of that. And that picture will ever be seared in my mind of these sweet children and their Sunday best coming with hope. And every Sunday we have people showing up with hope and we have a choice to partner in that hope or to live in the hurt. And I want to be a hope bearer.

I want to be a hope dealer. I want to be the one that's waiting with my arms open, even if I'm limping. That's why I show up. If you're someone that kind of walks into a church, maybe even just as a congregant for the first time, can you help us understand how do you start over? Because it might be a bittersweet ending, but what's next? I always say don't carry old dirt into new seasons. So if you're coming out of a season that has just been a mud fight, you know, you need to walk into the church and give yourself some time to recover from that. And, you know, we're not saying that broken people can't serve or hurt people aren't able to contribute, but we certainly can bring some of that old dirt into a new season and not be our healthiest version of ourselves. And so I always say, walk into a church and get to know the people before you get to know a position, get into a small group, get to know the pastors, get to know the staff. If there are opportunities to do events, you know, after a Sunday morning, go to those things and get to know people, get there a little early and grab a cup of coffee, get to know the DNA of that church and what it is you're saying yes to. It may not be a good fit, you know. Nobody is in a hurry for you to start serving. And I know that's hard for us to believe because we think that everything that we do is the only thing we can do and that if we don't do it, nobody will.

But I have news for you. You need the church more than the church needs you. And some of us need to stop doing and just be and let people love us and let people love on us for the first time. And that's going to be hard for a lot of the doers, a lot of the Martha's in the church because they want to prove their worth by doing. But I would say don't do anything until you feel 100% confident you're called to those people. And then once you know you're called to those people and to partner with that leadership, then the opportunities to serve will fall into natural places.

It'll be, oh, I do want to go work at Mary's home and work with single moms or oh, I do want to go and work and rock babies in kids' men. It'll become more of a call to action in a need versus our need to be put into action. So just give yourself grace. Like if you're healing, heal. Like nobody is watching their clock waiting for you to serve. I know that's hard for us to believe, but you are needed, yes, but you're wanted more than you're needed.

Wow. When my wife and I went through loss years ago, I think one of the greatest things someone shared with us is the idea of a ministry of presence, just being there. Now that, I mean we could take that and preach on so many different levels, but at the end of the day in an earlier episode, one of the things you said was just show up, just be there. And I think in many ways, whether you're there as a congregant or as a staff member, just showing up is part of the battle. Yeah, you have no idea who's looking for you.

Some of the greatest ministry I've done has been hoarding the candy basket while people are walking in on a Sunday morning. How are you? How are the kids? I heard you had surgery last week. How are you feeling? I heard your mom passed away.

Is there anything that you need? So much ministry is done between that entry point and that platform. And we think all this ministry is done with a microphone in our hand and having that camera on us, but that is actually a very minimal part of what we do as the church. So much of what we do is in the trenches with people 24 seven, not even in the church building.

So we really need to be careful how we qualify what ministry really is in the church. Well, Natalie, I just want to say thank you again for making time for us and to be encouraged by what you've gone through and where you've come and how the Lord's using you. I want you to be encouraged. Thank you.

Now let's be shameless though at the same time. How do people stay in touch with Raised to Stay at Natalie Runyon? Just join the communities online. Raised to Stay is on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, under Raised to Stay or my name, Natalie Runyon. I also have a website, Raised to Stay.com. There's a newsletter there you can join and then help me get this book around the world and get us to those New York Times bestseller and get a book, grab a couple and let's get this message out that we're not going to quit, that the enemy is not going to win.

Yeah. And the book is called Raised to Stay by Natalie Runyon and you can get it anywhere you can find a book and we encourage you to do that to help your ministry. We really want people to be encouraged by the lessons that you've learned and how you've shared those with us graciously, not trying to out people. That's not the goal, but try to make a safer place for people to minister.

God bless you, Natalie. Thank you for joining us. The Salvation Army's mission, Doing the Most Good, means helping people with material and spiritual needs. You become a part of this mission every time you give to the Salvation Army. Visit salvationarmyusa.org to offer your support. You can subscribe to Words of Life on your favorite podcast store or visit salvationarmysoundcast.org. Join us next time for the Salvation Army's Words of Life. Thanks so much for listening to Words of Life. We want to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the show. Visit lifeaudio.com where you'll find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network.

They have shows about prayer, Bible studying, parenting and more. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time. Hello, my name is Rachel Carmen and I want to invite you to come over and listen to my podcast. It's called Real Refreshment. For years and years as a young mother, I chased after the wind thinking that the world could offer me the refreshment I longed for. But it was only when I discovered it in the person of Jesus Christ that I really found refreshment. Come on over and join me as we dig into Bible study.

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