Welcome back to Words of Life.
If you missed the past couple of episodes, we are now in our third week of a rerun of a series we did in 2023. It was actually our first series that we did with author, pastor, worship leader, Natalie Runyon. We are so grateful for our still fairly recent partnership with Salem Media's Life Audio and because of this partnership, praise God, we have a lot of new listeners and we wanted to share one of our favorite series with you guys, in case you missed it. This series, Raised to Stay, is based on Natalie Runyon's first book where she shares her own testimony and experiences with church hurt, where she had been hurt by a church body in the past and is speaking to other Christians in a similar position who've maybe even walked away from the faith. But throughout this series and throughout Natalie's book, she reminds people that churches are made up of imperfect humans and just because an individual or even entire leadership in a church body let you down in the past, Natalie encourages you to not give up on the body of Christ.
Like why would I do that? But it was one of those seasons where I thought, why would you ask me to do all of this and sacrifice so much only to take it away? Was that what felt like exile was actually an exodus, that the Lord was pulling me out of something to prepare me for something new and how I responded in that season mattered. Welcome back to Words of Life. I'm Bernie Dake and joined again this week by Natalie Runyon from Raised to Stay. Welcome, Natalie. It's so good to be back.
Week three. Are we having fun yet? Oh, I'm having a blast. Love Atlanta. It's so good to be here.
It's warm. I appreciate it. It really has been great to get to know you and I hope our listeners have caught up with the episodes.
If you haven't, of course you can go back and listen or watch the previous ones. This week we really want to talk about the opportunity you've had in ministry, which plays into the whole Raised to Stay ethos and the story behind it. So the question of the hour is, why do you think you would have been called to this ministry only to have that opportunity removed?
Let's talk through it. Yeah, so in the previous episodes I've talked about how worship was my gateway into ministry, worship leadership, worship ministry. It was the thing I think after growing up in the church, going through my own family's church hurt, worship was that thing the Lord used to kind of, I don't want to say entice or lure me back in, but it's what brought me back into the presence of God and reminded me that I loved the church.
I loved the people. And in 2017, my family made this huge move from Cincinnati to Colorado Springs for me to be part of New Life Worship. And if you know anything about the worship world, that's a pretty huge promotion. That's an opportunity that at 37 years old, I thought, God, you finally see me.
You finally validate my gifts. All those years leading worship in nursing homes and for small groups and women's ministry and churches under a hundred, I finally have arrived. And I was so proud. I was so excited to go into this new season.
My husband and my girls, they went willingly, which is rare for families to be in unity on that. And we get out there and it wasn't what I thought. And that's okay. I think we need to be able to confess when things aren't as good as we thought they were going to be.
And that's part of church disappointments, which I think we need to acknowledge more of is when we're disappointed, maybe not hurt by the church, but we're disappointed by the church. And I spent two years in this new place. We didn't know anyone.
We didn't come with any family that was waiting for us. It was literally us and just the battling of back and forth and feeling like the Lord had bait and switched us. Like he had dangled this carrot out there. And it was in that season that I was moved involuntarily from worship ministry to women's ministry. And I'll never forget them saying, we just see this gift that you have, you're a teacher, you're a speaker. We want to bring that out in you. And whether that's true or not, I didn't want that. I remember them saying, do you want to be a women's pastor? And I was like, no, why?
I don't even like women. Like why would I do that? But it was one of those seasons where I thought, why would you ask me to do all of this and sacrifice so much only to take it away? And what I learned in that season was that my identity had been wrapped up in being a worship leader. And the Lord had to strip me of that identity to teach me that God's kids are not one trick ponies, that he gives us many tools in our tool belt.
And there are different seasons where we have to pull on those tools. And he needed me to be a teacher and a preacher and a writer for what he was preparing me for. And the only way he could do that was to take me out of the comfort of my Cincinnati bubble, where I could have led worship for the rest of my life on a different corner of every church and take me to Colorado where I knew nobody. And bring me to the end of myself so he could begin.
Wow. Let's go all the way back to the idea of church disappointment. So you were appointed in a sense from worship leader for a large congregation to a minister for a particular gender at the church, which you didn't love. I have to believe that you were given an opportunity for a reason. And I like how you realize that maybe God's preparing you for a different season, which is where we are now. Natalie, so many people that I've talked to leading up to this interview have been encouraged by these little black boxes and the words that you're sharing with them in truth and in love.
And for other people that are out there that are maybe in a similar season, I want to make sure that you understand, you know, we're not asking, Natalie is not asking anyone to stay in a toxic world, but you definitely are always going to need to be in that prayer closet, making sure that you're discerning what God's will is for those moments. So when there is change, it's something that feels right. It's true. And Chris Valliton says something that I hold onto a lot. And he said that suspicion is just discernment masked by fear. And when we've been hurt before, or we're expecting to be hurt, or, you know, we have a little trepidation going in, we can oftentimes operate out of suspicion so that when somebody does come to us and say, hey, I see this thing in you that I'd like to draw out, rather than like using our discernment to say, okay, is God using this to shake me, mold me, change me, challenge me, or is this person really trying to like take something from me and hurt me? We have to be able to operate in the discernment to distinguish the differences. And when we're suspicious, a lot of times it's because we're fearful and rightfully so for a lot of people who have been hurt to come in feeling that suspicion. And I've learned in this season that God will use people to move us where he wants us to go.
Being able to decide, am I being discerning or suspicious is huge. Okay, Natalie, here's the scenario. So someone in a situation similar to yours finds themselves without that ministry they thought they were called to. What's the next move? How do we respond?
What would Natalie do in this case? It was hard for us because my husband and I had to make the decision in that moment, do we stay or do we move back to Ohio where I can do what I want to do? And get chili.
And get chili, any good. And the choice was obvious once we started praying and fasting was we have to figure out why God brought us here. And if we quit, we're never going to actually find that out. So for me, my office got moved and it was far away from all of my friends. It was down a dark hallway where the only reason people would stop to talk to me is because the bathroom was on the way there. I felt so left behind. I felt forgotten.
I felt like this platform I had was suddenly silenced. And what I learned in that time was that what felt like exile was actually an exodus. That the Lord was pulling me out of something to prepare me for something new and how I responded in that season mattered.
And I think for listeners, you have to know that resting is not quitting. And you might feel like you're tucked back somewhere where nobody sees you and you've been forgotten and your calling has been muted. But God is actually setting you up for something that could look totally different than what you signed up for to begin with. And we have to remember that our first choice isn't always God's best. And that He will take us from what we think is our promised land and show us that it was just the tip of the iceberg, that He has so much better for us if we're willing to surrender to Him.
And I had tantrums. I will be honest with you, my journals are pretty messy from that season of telling God how mad I was at Him. But here's the thing, guys, God can handle it.
Yeah. Man, I believe that. God can do immeasurably more than we could ever ask or imagine. You had imagined that this was a rival being given this platform, the opportunity to lead a much bigger congregation. But God had something better in store. And it was never for me about being famous or making the next big worship album. It was about being part of something. And I think a lot of us who have been hurt by the church, a lot of our hurt is coming from a deep agony of a loss, not anger.
We know that anger is a secondary emotion. So we come at the church mad because the church hurt me. And what I've realized is that the church didn't hurt me.
I was just very deeply disappointed. And it made me so sad that I was no longer part. And we all want to be part of something. And when we feel that's been taken from us, it's a grief. It's a grief that cannot be explained.
Yeah. You know, the idea of church as an institution is hard. I don't think many people love institutional living in a sense, especially after you've had some freedom as an adult. But the church is made up of humans.
It's us. It's people that we are the body of Christ. Denominations will not matter when we get to heaven. Platforms will not matter when we get to heaven.
Specific ministries aren't going to matter. We will be worshiping for the rest of our days and that will matter. But to get there, we've got to be in a place of surrender. I'm always drawn to 2 Corinthians 12, where Paul again talks about begging God to remove this thorn in his side. He did that three times and finally he heard the Lord say, my grace is enough.
It's all you need. My strength, the Lord's strength is made perfect in our weakness. Natalie, what I think I'm hearing you say is you had to come to a place of surrender so that you could be equipped for the next phase of this battle for you, the next phase of opportunity for you. And I am encouraged. I am one of the stayers because of you and the Lord in you.
And that's pretty awesome. It's humbling when we think that the Lord will use us at our lowest moment to reveal his strength because people want an algorithm. They want to know how did raise to stay become what it is. And it was laying on my office floor having a tantrum and telling God that I felt like he bait and switched me. It was being honest like Job and saying, why have you forsaken me?
Why have you taken everything? Spiritual children, spiritual gifts, whatever that looks like. And I think we get influence and authority confused. And visibility is not influence.
Visibility is not authority. Sometimes the greatest impact we'll have on the kingdom is in those surrendered moments when we're on our knees and we're just asking God to remind us why he made us. And that's where I have found the Lord has given me most authority in the kingdom has been in those moments when I could have quit. And I didn't because Philippians one six, he who began a good work in us is faithful to complete it to the very end, even in our weakest moments.
Yeah. The Salvation Army's mission doing the most good means helping people with material and spiritual needs. You become a part of this mission every time you give to the Salvation Army. Visit salvationarmyusa.org to offer your support. You can subscribe to Words of Life on your favorite podcast store or visit salvationarmysoundcast.org. Join us next time for the Salvation Army's Words of Life. Thanks so much for listening to Words of Life. We want to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the show. Visit lifeaudio.com where you'll find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network.
They have shows about prayer, Bible studying, parenting, and more. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time. over the person sitting next to me and you know what they were doing they're also playing Chumba casino everybody's loving having fun with it Chumba casino is home to hundreds of casino style games that you can play for free anytime anywhere so sign up now at Chumba casino.com to claim your free welcome bonus that's Chumba casino.com and live the Chumba life sponsored by Chumba casino no purchase necessary vgw group void where prohibited by law 18 plus terms and conditions apply
