How Would Mary be Treated Today?

From the Salvation Army, you're listening to Wonderful Words of Life.

What's the way? And here in this silent night, a wondrous sight, God has come to earth, heaven's arrival. There's a newborn King, our hearts rejoicing, As our creation sings, you've found us here. Welcome back, everybody, and welcome to Chris Benjamin, our producer. Hey, how are you, Bernie? They say the third time's a charm, and this is your third episode in front of a microphone.

Well, I know there's a lot of editing that goes behind this to make me sound like I know what I'm doing, but I prefer to be behind the scenes usually. Well, we're glad that you're in front of the microphone this time, because you really do bring a lot of ideas to the table that help us meet our listeners where they are today, and particularly this series that we're doing, which is unlike anything we've done before, where we're eavesdropping around a table while people are just sharing Christmas memories. There's so many things that happen during this holiday season that aren't always just happy things. I love the vulnerability that everyone agreed to be a part of this season that they'd allowed us to see, but today we kind of shift gears a little bit, and we begin to discuss if Jesus hadn't been born yet. We were in 2019, and Mary was pregnant with the Savior today in our culture.

How would she be treated? I thought this was a really neat question actually one of our staff members came up with. This is sort of a litmus test for people to see where someone views the current state of the church, and I know you were part of this discussion. Well, I mean if you see Jesus on a street, do you know him?

Do you know that's him? Is it someone that might be down on their luck, or maybe someone who is in between being a quote-unquote contributing member of society to that homeless person on a street? How did they get there? I don't think we know, but if we believe that Jesus lives inside of us in our hearts, then we have to believe that each person we pass could very well be Jesus. Absolutely, and I love, so in Giovanni's group as they discussed, Kayla, she has a tremendous heart as everyone that you hear from for mission work, and especially working with homeless people and people that are kind of on the edges of society, and she made a really good point of just how many times we see someone, and we already have a narrative, we already know their story, and we've already judged them before we even know, and would Mary be pretty much treated the same way today or not? I mean would the church be more receptive and welcoming? It's a good question, and I wonder if our listeners would respond if they were given a chance. I would love to hear what you think.

So please let us know what you think and chime in on this discussion. Send us an email, radio at uss.salvationarmy.org. Or give us a call at 1-800-229-9965. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. This Christmas you're invited to fight for the hungry, the hurting, and the hopeless, to fight for those struggling to keep a roof over their heads, to make ends meet and survive the holidays, to fight for justice, hope, and love all year long. Your sustaining monthly gift of just $25 doubles the Salvation Army's ability to assist our neighbors battling poverty and help them win.

Join the fight for good at salvationarmyusa.org. MUSIC What if Mary wasn't born and she was pregnant now in 2019, and you telling people, I'll do this. This baby's by the Holy Spirit. I tried to put myself in her position. I said, what would happen if I came to work or went somewhere pregnant and people who know me, and they'd be like, well, the Holy Spirit said I was carrying the Lord. Do you think there's a difference between how she was treated before and how she would be treated now, like her community?

I don't know. I think it would be worse because when Jesus came, he showed them not to be legalistic and how to do certain things. So if this is 2,000 something years later, and we've just been set in stone doing things very legalistically and very rigid, I think that we would probably be more harsh. Well, but even think about it now. I think sometimes that we've made our way back to legalism.

And I would say there's a lot of liberalism, too, but I also think that you look at these traditions that we cling to sometimes, and I just don't know. I mean, you think about Mary, like pregnant 14- or 15-year-old walking into a church. I'm carrying the Lord, y'all.

And even beyond that. She can't even picture it. The part about her being pregnant wouldn't shock people. It wouldn't shock the Holy Spirit. It's about who?

People rolling their eyes. Who she was, her age, and you saying that you're pregnant with the Messiah. I think this is what people struggle with Christians already. I think Mary would have a hard time.

I think Mary would... She would find more refuge outside of the church. Oh, of course. Oh, yeah. Of course.

I think so. I mean, of course, there's those certain groups of people who really want to, like, who really just have the Lord's heart for things. But overall, I feel like she would be scolded or something. I think there's times that as people of God, we can treat others like Mary. Well, and I think even just seeing people and automatically having those, like, stereotypes about them are feeling like, I know what that girl will be doing, you know? And so I think, yeah, I think even not to be so hard on the church, but like us as humans, like we just think we know everyone's story before they even open their mouth. They walk in the door, and we already have them, you know, figured out in our minds sometimes. And I think, you know, to think about Mary and that people saw her, and even now in this age, see her and that already we've got a narrative going for, you know, what's her story, what she got going on, what decisions she made, what sins she's got, you know? I mean, it's always easier to condemn other people than to look within yourself.

Oh, yeah. What would that look like if all of a sudden here is this family that finds themselves in the situation that Mary, Joseph, and eventually Jesus found themselves in? What would that look like, do you think? I think it will be the same. People will judge them. People will set them apart. Because the culture, you know, is the same, even though we're 2,000 years apart. Well, what the 2,000 years has done, it allows, first off, the familiarity that we have.

We know the story so well that we tend to just kind of gloss over it, really, don't you think? But imagine the crisis that you would feel. You are full-term expecting. Now, we've got to find, excuse me, we've got to have a place somewhere, not just to lay your head, but this baby's coming, this is happening, and I don't know where someone turns if that were happening today. Where do you go? I mean, do you go to Grady Hospital? Where does somebody turn? I'd like to idealize it and think that, well, maybe they should be able to find us at the Salvation Army, but would they? What happens in a situation like that?

Because it still goes on, doesn't it? Absolutely, and it's a lot of pressure. If they're pregnant by wet log, you know, it's like how people are going to see this baby. I don't have the money to keep this child. I don't have the resources. I'm not from here.

You know, it's a lot of pressure. And we don't see people. Exactly. We look past people in a way. And so we see them, and we may nod our head and say, oh, yeah, there she is. But then we go about our business, and I feel like Mary maybe may have felt that way a little bit.

Do you know what I mean? She was just another traveler at that point. And I think people just probably look past her, and I get it. You know, our greatest desire really as human beings, God has put that in us, is to be seen and to be known. And I wonder how lonely she must have felt not to have been known, for people just to have been milling around.

They were all so busy, that sounds familiar, that nobody saw her. And boy, that's convicting to me, not just for myself, but Laurie, how often do you stop and see people? We need to be more intentional in getting to know people and hearing people's stories. Yeah, because it changes things. We live in a skeptical society.

I'm not sure about that. In a very litigious society, and the danger is even though we work for an organization that loves the Lord, we are the Salvation Army, it's our middle name, it's hard to think, well, maybe I can't ask that question. I don't want to be too personal. I don't want someone to go to HR because I asked something that was too personal. But at the end of the day, it is about relationships, developing a relationship with someone and just letting it happen.

It takes some time. I think for Mary, I have to wonder what people that were in their community must have thought because she hadn't been with a man. But how else does that happen? Did everyone get the story? Can you imagine the story? It's like the tabloids at the grocery store on the way out, Martian maids.

No, Joseph, let me tell you, there was this angel, see? Yeah, exactly. I do think that busyness is a tool of the enemy on so many different levels.

If I can't make them bad, maybe I can make them busy. For that matter, let's even look at the innkeeper for a minute. We don't know, Scripture doesn't tell us, how many people did he take in? Not just for necessarily profit, but don't you suppose that just out of trying to get people in, that he would just sort of stack them like cord would, just try to get as many people, just to be helpful.

He's often portrayed as the guy in the dark hat. I'm not sure that he was exactly, but we're already like 150% over capacity, and I think busyness and overloaded schedules tend to help bring about what you're describing, where we give ourselves a pass with, well, there's just so much going on, I can only do so much. And while that's true, is there room for just that one more step? Even if it is, even if it is, look, it's not much, but I've got a stable. I almost hate to say it, but I've got a stable that's at least going to keep the weather off your head. Can that be of use?

Let's not downplay our stables, I don't think. I think it is still an offering to put forward. The Salvation Army's mission, Doing the Most Good, means helping people with material and spiritual needs. You become a part of this mission every time you give to the Salvation Army. Visit salvationarmyusa.org to offer your support, and we would love to hear from you. Email us at radio at uss.salvationarmy.org, call 1-800-229-9965, or write us at P.O.

Box 29972, Atlanta, Georgia, 30359. When you contact us, we'll send you our gift for this series. It's totally free for listeners like you, one per household, while supplies last. You can also subscribe to our show on iTunes or your favorite podcast store and be sure to give us a rating. Just search for Wonderful Words of Life. Follow us on social media for the latest episodes, extended interviews, and more. And if you don't have a church home, we invite you to visit your local Salvation Army worship center. They'll be glad to see you. This is Bernie Dake inviting you to join us next time for The Salvation Army's Wonderful Words of Life. .