For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, planning your finances is bigger than just money. We help you put your plans into motion and faith into action so you can do more for the ones in your heart.
Because sometimes, all you need to make a difference is someone to help you make it happen. Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with us at Thrivent.com. Life Audio. Hi, from the Salvation Army, you're listening to Words of Life.
Welcome back to Words of Life. If you've missed our last three episodes, this is now our fourth conversation that we're having with our friend, Dr. Carolyn Moore. She is a pastor, an author, a speaker, teacher, podcaster, and as I mentioned before, still a fairly newly appointed bishop of the Global Methodist Church. So in a previous episode, we asked the question, how does God see me? And now we're moving that conversation into how does God see others? How does God see unbelievers and people of other faiths? And it really made me ask, how am I interacting with unbelievers? How am I sharing my faith? And Dr. Moore brings up a beautiful point.
You know, today there's just so much information out there. People are looking for authenticity. And when we're trying to win people to the Lord for the purpose of growing our numbers at our church, or just checking off a to-do list, we are absolutely doing them and the body of Christ at the service. We need to be in relationship with people. And when we're interacting with unbelievers, they need to know that we truly care about them, their salvation, and we want them to know our Heavenly Father and how loved they are. And so with that, I really hope you enjoy this conversation.
Here's Bernie Dake and Dr. Carolyn Moore. Let your spirit rise. Let your spirit rise. Hey, welcome back to Words of Life. I'm so excited.
Still, episode four with Dr. Carolyn Moore. Welcome back. Thank you. What a joy this has been, just having a great conversation about Jesus. Doesn't get any better than that. The Lord is alive in you and it bubbles out of you. I think it's the room.
I think it's just when you walk into a place where your hair gets blown back by the Holy Spirit, what are you going to do? Amen. Amen. For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, planning your finances is bigger than just money. We help you put your plans into motion and faith into action so you can do more for the ones in your heart.
Because sometimes all you need to make a difference is someone to help you make it happen. Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with us at Thrivent.com. Now here's the question. We're going to put you on the spot. I know this is tough for you to really try to address these deep issues and questions that we have as people of faith, but the Salvation Army is very evangelical. We want to share our faith.
That makes perfect sense. The Lord is doing something good. Tell the world.
Tell the world of His love. Hopefully they'll see something in us that will attract them to Him. But oftentimes we wonder, how does God see people that don't know Him? How does God see non-Christians?
I don't think that the answer is much different. He sees all of us as people for whom Christ died. Jesus is in the work of redeeming people. That's what Jesus does.
His blood covers all the sins. And so God sees people as those for whom Christ died, beloved children, and is hardest to pursue them. If the question is, how does God see a Buddhist, or how does God see a Hindu, or how does God see someone who may not claim the name of Jesus, my response is always, you know what, I think my job is to stay in my lane. And it is to continue to teach and preach as if Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. I don't have to answer every single question for every single person, because even those who may have the name of Jesus on their lips may not have a saving knowledge of Him.
And so it's not mine to evaluate or unwrap every single person's everything. Mine is to stay in my lane to preach that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and there's no other way to the Father except by Him. There's a great old story here in the United States of a wonderful pastor, Reverend Billy Graham.
People tried to get him to commit to a side when there was a deep-seated issue in the United States. He said, well, I believe it's my job to love. It's the Holy Spirit's job to convict. And it's God's job to judge. And I'm not Him. And that's a beautiful way to think about it.
But I like your perspective, too, where God sees all people as someone that Christ was worth dying for, or that they were worth dying for by Christ. Right. And there are some amazing stories in the world. I was in India a few years ago, and this woman was telling me a story. She was working for a shop that taught women how to sew. And she said, I was on my way to run away from my family, maybe even kill myself.
Things were so bad at home. And a man, a tall, bearded man, almost as if it was a vision, she said, told me to go to this particular address. So she said, I went walking through this city, found this address that he told me to go to, walked up the stairs and found myself.
And she said, I had no prior understanding of this place. But she found herself in the office of a missionary who told her the man she met on the street was Jesus, who told her the gospel of Jesus. And she became a follower of Jesus. It's like God bypassed the middleman. He just went directly into the heart of a Hindu woman and spoke truth into her life.
I've seen the same thing happen in my office. A woman came to my office one day and she had prayed to Jesus in years and she was raised in a cult. And I watched Jesus do the same thing with her.
He didn't even use me. He just spoke directly into her life while we were in prayer. And she came out of that prayer a follower of Jesus. So, you know, Paul says we cannot know everything. And I agree with Paul, you can't know everything. Just preach the word. Preach the word. I love quoting all these other things.
I think, you know, St. Francis of Assisi was the one that's always quoted for saying, preach the gospel, use words when necessary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Except I'm a preacher and so I say, use words. Of course. Preach the gospel, use words, use everything.
Yeah. Don't avoid anything. Use your words, use your skills, use your food. If you're a cook, I would not be winning a lot of people to Jesus by my cooking. Use everything.
Yeah. For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, planning your finances is bigger than just money. We help you put your plans into motion and faith into action so you can do more for the ones in your heart. Because sometimes all you need to make a difference is someone to help you make it happen. Thrivent, where money means more.
Connect with us at Thrivent.com. But when we're approaching unbelievers in particular, we can't know what people know or believe. Is it not rude?
What's the word? Is it disingenuine of me to think that, well, that person doesn't know the Lord, I should speak into their lives? There is this strain of evangelism that is more interested in the method than in the person in front of you. And goodness, the methods have won enough people to Jesus that we talk about them. The Romans wrote tracts, all of the four spiritual laws. Those things, we talk about them because they've worked for a lot of people.
So I don't want to denigrate them at all. But I would just say that in the 21st century, it seems like relationship is a valid, maybe even potent way of helping people to know Jesus. And that means it's what we're doing right now. It's sitting across from somebody and telling my story and helping someone to hear that on my worst day as a Christian, it's better than my best day when I was wandering far from the Lord. It's helping them to hear that suffering is not exclusive to any person or any place in the world that we're all going to suffer. There's hope in this Christian story and there's hope in the Christian life. It's helping people to hear they have a creative design and that as they discover it and walk into it, they will find joy. And as they're filled with the Spirit, they will be filled with the fruit of the Spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control.
All of that is ours to have, all of it. So I think when we sit with somebody, we don't sit with the sort of, I need another notch on my belt, or I need to make sure this person gets saved because I'm personally afraid of my own mortality, which is the reason a lot of us do that. Actually, I just think, I just want to know your story. I want to listen with you for what God has for you. And maybe this is the most important learning I've had as I have over the years listened and listened to other people's stories. God is not as much in a hurry as we are.
I need to get this done so I can move on. I need you to say yes to Jesus so I can feel good about myself or so I can not be worried about your salvation. It's really very me-focused. God is not in a hurry. It's the same God who said to me 17 years after I first heard that call, I'm just sitting here waiting for you to say yes. And there's so many lives that we interact with.
I think that's the same thing. Jesus is patiently waiting. He has nothing but time. He's eternal.
He actually has all the time, literally all the time in the world. And He will wait us out. Maybe our bigger mistake is being impatient with people thinking it's a one and done proposition. You may need to pray for someone over time.
You may need to be in relationship with them over time. You may need to help them work through areas of significant brokenness before they're ever willing to trust Jesus. God's not in a hurry. You know, something that has really impacted me in recent years is the change in perspective that Paul prescribes in Ephesians chapter two. He says in Ephesians two, that Christ has raised us up and seated us in the heavenly places with Christ Jesus. And that is a past tense raised. He has already raised us up and seated us in the heavenlies with Christ Jesus, which means if Paul is right about this, and I'm taking Paul at his word. As we should.
That's right. If Paul is right about this in some mysterious way that I cannot understand because God lives outside of time, I am already seated with Him in the heavenlies, which means all my big questions are answered, which means that I actually can have assurance that I am already accepted. I am already loved. I can be confident in my life in Christ. And from that perspective, almost like sitting in the bleachers looking down on the field. Actually Charles Wesley has written a hymn on that very passage. One of the lines in that hymn is the world beneath our feet.
Isn't that glorious? We're not we're not staring up at mountains full of suffering and insurmountable pain and questions that God will never be able to answer. No, actually, I am seated with Christ in the heavenlies, the world beneath our feet. And from that place, I don't have to be anxious. I don't have to be fearful. I can confidently go wherever Jesus calls me. And that's a great evangelism word too, because I'm seated with Christ in the heavenlies. He already knows what your issues are. I don't have to be afraid.
I can just share the story, share in the joy of the moment, develop a relationship, love you lavishly, and let Jesus take care of the rest. Amen. Amen. Blessed but assurance. Yes.
Jesus is mine. Yes. Oh, what a foretaste. Yes. Glory divine. Yes. That foretaste is now.
Yeah. Thank you so much for your joy, for your love of the Lord, for allowing him to use you in very powerful ways. It's a joy. We've still got more to come though.
Okay. Well, I don't know about you, but everybody at Words of Life was so blessed by having Dr. Carolyn Moore join us. And so if you missed any of these episodes, this series began on March 23rd. So subscribe on your favorite podcast store and go back to March 23rd to get caught up or check out our website, wordsoflifepodcast.org. There you can not only subscribe on your favorite platform, but you can learn more about the show upcoming series and visit our contact page and reach out.
We unfortunately only have one more episode with Dr. Moore. So you don't want to miss next week until then have a great week and God bless. The Salvation Army's mission doing the most good means helping people with material and spiritual needs. You become a part of this mission every time you give to the Salvation Army. Visit salvationarmyusa.org to offer your support. You can subscribe to Words of Life on your favorite podcast store or visit salvationarmysoundcast.org. Join us next time for the Salvation Army's Words of Life. Thanks so much for listening to Words of Life. We want to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the show. Visit lifeaudio.com where you'll find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They have shows about prayer, Bible studying, parenting, and more. Thanks again for listening.
We'll see you next time. For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, planning your finances is bigger than just money. We help you put your plans into motion and faith into action so you can do more for the ones in your heart.
Because sometimes all you need to make a difference is someone to help you make it happen. Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with us at Thrivent.com. Hi, I'm Beckett Cook, host of The Beckett Cook Show. I lived as a gay man in Hollywood for many, many years until I had a radical encounter with Jesus 13 years ago. Since then, I've gotten my master's degree in seminary and published a book called A Change of Affection. On my podcast, The Beckett Cook Show, I sit down with fascinating Christian scholars and thinkers to address the lies of the culture and bring the biblical truth to bear on those lies. To start listening now, go to lifeaudio.com or search for The Beckett Cook Show on your favorite podcasting platform.
