WRWL Hour 1

The following program is sponsored by What's Right, What's Left Ministries and is responsible for its content.

Portions of the following program may be pre-recorded. I am Pastor Ernie Sanders, the voice of the Christian Resistance. Stay tuned, my radio broadcast, What's Right, What's Left, is coming up right now.

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Thank you. This is What's Right, What's Left with Pastor Ernie Sanders. Good evening and welcome to another edition of What's Right, What's Left on this 24th day of February, Monday, 2025. And tonight my co-host, the incredible Kenny. Hey. Good evening, Pastor.

You're there tonight and you're playing the straight man tonight, right? Sure. Okay. I didn't get the show notes, but okay.

Okay. I tell you what, we have a wonderful, wonderful guest tonight. She, I've listened to her speak. She's very, very articulate. She is the executive director of Dayton Right to Life. And she is a real lady. God bless these pro-life ladies. God bless them so much because I tell you what, I just saw Jane Fonda. I was just listening to Jane Fonda. Jane Fonda, Hanoi Jane. Well, my brother almost shot her one time, but that's a different story. He was a guard in a military base in Colorado up on the tower and she stormed the tower.

And if she was to come within inside, his job was to shoot her and he was hoping he didn't have to, but then he wasn't sure. But anyhow, Hanoi Jane, if you want. But we have a real lady, and let me tell you, she's a rose between the thrones here, the thorns tonight.

And Margie's, she's kind of pretty, too. Hey, Margie. Good evening, Pastor. How are you? We're doing real good tonight. Welcome to our world out here.

And, boy, we have quite an agenda tonight. Well, it's great to be with you. You're an Ohio legend, so I'm honored and humbled. Well, thank you. I was thinking, Margie, you know, I looked at Jane Fonda. Now, we're the same age, her and I, but she looks a lot younger than I, and I was saying that to my secretary. And my secretary says, well, that's because she's had a number of facelifts. And then I thought about that. I guess you kind of have to have a face worth lifting, huh?

I have no doubt she has had some work done. That's what she said. Anyhow, we're going to get right into the message tonight, the Bible study. The title of the message was, well, it was Those That Walk in... no, it wasn't. That's the old message. I'm in a new message.

What am I doing here? Okay, the title of this message was Be Aware of the Devil's Devices. Be Aware of the Devil's Devices. Now, here I looked up the definition, and there's a biblical definition, too, of devices.

And the definition is a scheme to deceive something contrived, a conventional stage, a practical or means, a piece of equipment or a mechanism designed to serve a specific purpose. So here with a little commentary, with a new day dawning in America, we see the curtains being pulled back and the devil and his children, devices being exposed to the light of day like a mighty gust of wind and an incredible sigh of relief sweeps across America, akin to emerging from like a storm sewer after... a storm cellar, not a storm sewer, the storm cellar after the tornado has passed by to find that our... God has, in His divine mercy, has spared our lives and our property. He is giving us one more chance, maybe the last chance to come back, for America to come back to Him. Proverbs 29, too, says that when the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice, but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn. I remember very, very clearly when Barack Obama proclaimed that he was the one, he was the one that the world had been waiting for, and then he, and he referred to himself as I am, he said, I am, and that's the name for God, but anyhow, and he said that he, I am the one that I've been waiting for.

And so here, he kind of gave himself a lot of notoriety there, but he's certainly not the one I was waiting for, I can tell you that. But anyhow, for eight years, eight years, daily, while he was in office, I warned the people. Every time he appointed someone new, when he purged our military of four, of eleven four-star generals, and I was telling you who he's replacing them, he was replacing them with people that were bootlickers. They were not men of honor who honored God, country, and the people.

No, they weren't. He started like his father, the devil, with an attack against the very first divine institution, and that was marriage and the family. And I remember, Margie, you might remember, or Ken, when he went to Saddleback, when he was running for president, and he made the statement that, as far as marriage goes, my opinion, my belief is that marriage is between a man and a woman. And I said, right there, that very day, I said, that will change the very day, the very day that he gets elected, that will change. Both him and Rick Warren both made the same statement, and sure enough, the very same day, he was asked, once he was elected, on the first day he took office, that question came up, and he said, well, he said, my opinion, there has been evolving. And so he said, no, evolving is what I'm trying to say. So now he said, I look at that differently.

I believe that you can have same-sex marriage. And I told you that was going to happen exactly. So we're going to take a look at the devices used here. Where Satan's device was to turn Eve from obeying her husband, to turn Adam from obeying God, and to listen to Eve, and blaming God for giving him Eve. And so let's turn to Genesis chapter 3, and we start with verse 1. And Marjorie, if you have a question or comment, just jump right in.

Okay. Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field, which the Lord God had made, and said unto the woman, yea, God has said, ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden. And the woman said unto the serpent, we may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden, but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, you shall not surely die, for God doth know that in that day you eat thereof, therefore then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. So here we start out, and Satan, when you ask most people, if I was to say, Marjorie, what was the most beautiful, the most beautiful creature God ever created, what would you say? Man, woman.

Well, actually, you'd be close. Actually, he tells you in Ezekiel chapter 28 that Lucifer was the most beautiful creation. Lucifer, okay, and he's described over there in Ezekiel chapter 28, and Lucifer had his vesture, was made up of rubies and diamonds and emeralds and all of these such things. And so, in fact, here, let me see, Son of man, take up lamentations against the king of Tyrus.

Now, the king of Tyrus here is Lucifer. And say unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Thou sealest up that sum full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden, the garden of God, every precious stone was thy covering, the sardus, the topaz, the diamond, the barrel, the onyx, the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, the carbuncle. It goes on and on, and it talks about his beauty, so he was the most beautiful. In fact, he said he was absolutely, beauty was perfect, okay? And so, here now, the second most beautiful creature do you think that God created?

I don't know. I'm going to go back to my one man and woman. Well, you would be half right. It was the woman, Eve. Eve was the most beautiful woman that ever existed. She was a prototype. She was absolutely perfect, okay?

I got to tell you, see, you women are much prettier than us guys. Get from God, right? Absolutely, okay. I can't argue there. No. And we really don't mind, and the reason is because being ugly takes, well, we have no maintenance, right? No, hardly any. We don't waste a minute, okay?

And so, anyhow, and so here, and that's the difference in the natures between the two. When I was preaching this message in church, I held up my hand and I showed her my wedding ring. I said, this is all the jewelry that I own in the world, okay? And that's all that I want. I have never had any desires for jewelry. Now, my wife's sitting over there, on the other hand, that's not the case with her.

And she has a whole lot of jewelry, okay? And that's the difference between men and women. Now, if you wanted to, see, Satan was what I just read to perfect in wisdom. And, you know, he just didn't show up in the garden that morning. He'd been watching and looking. Now, he knew that God had given Adam complete authority in that garden. Adam had the complete authority, and Adam could have taken his head off, even though Satan was as powerful as he was. In that garden, Adam was boss. And so here, he knew he had to get to Adam and he had to find a way to do it, so he looked. Now, remember, when God had instructed Adam to name all of the animals, he said, go through there and look for a helpmate. Man, Adam, he's gone through there with hippopotamus and kangaroos and things, and he's thinking, boy, I don't know.

None of these things turned me on, I guess. And then God made Eve. Now, Adam was just taken back, I mean, by her beauty. He was just absolutely taken back by her beauty.

Now, here, she, being the most beautiful creature, the only thing that would impress the most beautiful, or the second most beautiful, is the most beautiful. Satan did not appear in that garden as a snake. You ought to see these portraits of a snake curled around a tree, talking to Eve. Well, that's not the way it was. He didn't lose his arms and legs until after. You find that, we'll read that here, over in Genesis 3.14. But at this time, he was walking on to, and she was just absolutely astonished by his vesture with the diamonds and the rubies and all of that the way he was. So, God never told Eve not to touch, not to eat. He told Adam. Adam instructed Eve. Adam had done that, and that was his job.

He did good. Where he failed, and Adam failed big time, was listening to Eve and not listening to God. And as we go through Scripture, we see several examples of that where men were supposed to have listened to God. You know, there were times when God didn't appear to be around, but their wives sure were, okay? And they listened to their wives in those times every time they got in trouble, okay?

We see here with Eve, boy, you know what that cost us, but Abraham listened to Sarah and ended up with Hagar and the whole Arab nation, okay? Then Samson never should have listened to Delilah, and boy, when Ahab listened to Jezebel, that didn't end well for him at all. But anyhow, you're supposed to listen to God. These men were supposed to listen to the Lord. And the women were supposed to listen to their husbands, but it didn't quite work that way, okay? And so here now, if we go over, Satan kind of told a half a truth, right? He said, And the serpent said unto the woman, You shall surely not die, for that was a lie, for God doth know that in the day you eat thereof your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

What do you think, Ken? Yeah, their eyes may have been opened to good and evil, but they surely were not like gods, and it kind of just, it was the beginning of the downfall of man. I mean, that was it.

Right. Now, they were actually, before they protected the fruit, they were actually like gods. How would that be? In what way were they like gods?

They were clothed in light. Well, they would live forever. Yes, yes, immortal. They would be immortal. They were never meant to die.

Yeah, they were right, okay. But now, here, they transgressed, and so sin entered in. And so here now, we jump over, and he said to verse 11, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree?

Wherefore I commanded thee, thou shouldest not eat. Do you think God had already known whether or not he'd eaten of that tree? Absolutely. Okay. So he was giving Adam a chance to repent here, fess up, huh?

Yep. So what does Adam do? Does Adam stand up and say... He fails miserably.

Pardon? He fails miserably. He fails miserably. He certainly did, and what does he do?

He blames it on God. He says, and the man said, That woman, that woman whom knew, thou gaveth. You gave me that woman.

I was doing okay. But that woman that you gave me to be with, well, she's the one that gave me the tree that I did eat, right? So he passes the buck on and tells God that it was his fault, because, you know, he would never would have done it. But God had you not given me that woman.

So what does the woman do? And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, Well, that the serpent beguiled me. In other words, the devil made me do it, and I did eat, right? So the question was, Why didn't you listen to your husband?

Why didn't he listen to me? And so, and then the Lord said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field, upon the belly shalt thou go, and doth shall thou eat all the days of thy life. So from that point on, that's where serpents lost their arms and legs. And here, and then he says, I will put enmity between the woman and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and now shall bruise his heel. So this is called an evangelium.

In other words, this is actually the very first reference to evangelism here. Now, when he said, I will put enmity between the woman and between thy seed and her seed. Now, here, the devil said, Jesus referred to in John chapter 8 to the Pharisees and that, that they were Satan's children. Satan's children, okay. Jesus said, You don't know me, you don't believe me, and you can't hear me because you're not of my father but of your father the devil.

And so here now, he's talking about those people, those that have, that hate God, well, I get like, like the Democrats today in America, they're totally anti-God, okay. And then he says, and the seed of the woman. Well, of course, there's two things happening here. Women don't have seeds, okay.

But the birth of Christ was not a normal birth, okay, the conception, because he didn't have a human father, okay. So in this case, it was referred to as the seed of the woman, okay. But here now, and he goes on and he says that, this is interesting. He says, and I will put enmity between the woman and between thy seed and her seed. He shall bruise thy head and thou shall bruise thy heel. You want to comment on that, Ken?

Say what? He says, and thou shall bruise thy head and thou shall bruise thy heel. Now, anyhow, the heel would be those of the Christians, the body of Christ. The devil would bruise his heel. In other words, he would, he would do, wound the body of Christ, and we've seen that throughout centuries, persecution of the church, which is greater today than it's ever been. But God would eventually do what?

He shall bruise the head. In other words, what he's going to do is destroy the devil and his children. Because then unto the woman, he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and conception, and sorrow thou shall bring forth children, and thy desire shall be towards the husband, and he shall rule over thee. Well, that's the way it was made that God made as a woman as a helpmate to her husband, and she was supposed to be to reverence her husband and be obedient to her husband, and light your words to the Lord, to Christ, except for if he asked her to do things contrary to what God's Word the Bible tells him. Example, you know, the Bible says, thou shall not steal, right? If he tells his wife, I'm going to rob a bank and you're going to drive the getaway car, maybe she should say no, huh? Yeah, you don't think she should be obedient at that time.

Right, but in everything that the Bible says the wife should be obedient and the husband shall love the wife, you know, the husband... Now, that's in a perfect world where that's how it's supposed to be. Well, yeah, it is, but you see, the thing of it is that works for some of us. It does. Yeah.

It does if you allow it to. Yeah, I've been married now 57 years. Yeah, I'm going on 15. Yeah.

You think you'll catch me someday? If I survive that long, yes, I think we will, yeah. We're in a good marriage. We did everything the right way.

Yeah. Well, back when I got married, all the men only married women, that's all. We used to only have two genders, that was it. Yeah, way back then, wow. Yeah, that's the way it was.

Those were the good old days, I tell you. We're going to a break. We'll be right back right after this.

Don't go away. The doctor did our dirty work, so now we pay the bill. We thought he solved our problem, but our life's a living hell. I toss and turn in bed at night. God, it's hard to sleep.

In my heart and in my mind, I hear a voice that says to me. You could have took me fishing, dad. You could have taught me how to swim. I could have made you proud of me. Now I'll never have that chance. I could have been your little boy standing right there by your side. I could have been your pride and joy. Daddy, did I have to die?

I never thought of it as right or wrong, but I think about it now. Oh God, I'd give my life if I could just turn time back somehow. I'd let him live and watch him grow. I'd buy him everything. But now he won't need a ball or bat.

He'll never play one game. You could have been my hero, dad. You could have done what daddies do. You could have wrote me on your back.

You could have taught me to tie my shoes. I could have grown into a man. I should have had my chance at life. We could have been the best of friends. Daddy, did I have to die?

God, the choice of life belongs to you. It wasn't hers or mine. And I know she feels the same way too.

Sometimes I hear her cry. How can we ever be the same or live with what was done? Instead of these two broken hearts, God, we might have had a son. You could have been my hero, dad. You could have done what daddies do. You could have wrote me on your back. You could have taught me to tie my shoes. I could have been your little boy standing right there by your side.

I could have been your pride and joy. Daddy, did I have to die? Daddy, did I have to die? No, you didn't have to die.

That's because of wicked people. But anyhow, that was the very, very talented Danny Ray who was a dear, dear friend for 40 years and he went home to be with the Lord last year. God bless him. And here, bringing America back to life, March 7th and 8th at the Embassy Suites at 5800 Rockside Road in Independence, Ohio. And call for information, more, 440-644-3411 to register and I can tell you who's going to be there. Marzi Christie, she's going to be there. She's the Executive Director of Dayton Right to Life and she'll be leading the End of Life panel, which will discuss the moral and legal topics we should all be aware of at the end of life. And you know, Marzi, about 40 years ago, even going back several times, I had Dr. Jack Wilkie and he was very, very passionate about that, the end of life, especially where it came to pain control and he was a regular here on the radio program. We'd be talking about that. And boy, I'm going to tell you, he really opened the eyes of a lot of people and that's what you're going to be doing here on the 7th and 8th. Tell us about it. Yeah, we're very excited to be a part of that great event up there.

We've gone for, gosh, almost 10 years now and we just love that event there. So gosh, probably 8 or 10 years ago, I'm sure you remember this, Pastor Ernie, but we had this piece of legislation that they wanted to introduce talking about MOLST forms. They wanted folks to fill out in the hospital and those were medical orders for life sustaining treatment and they wanted to make those mandatory in the state of Ohio. And that wasn't going to happen and actually the bill was authored by one of a lady out of Dayton, Senator Peggy Laner from Dayton.

And Paula Westwood from Cincinnati Rights of Life gave me a call and said, hey, Margie, we've got to stop this bill from going through in Columbus under the governor's desk. So we started educating people and we started this panel that we're going to be doing in March up in Independence and we just started educating people on how to plan for the end of life. And you know better than anybody, Pastor Ernie, people don't like to talk about death, especially their own. And so getting people to take first of all a look at what are my thoughts about death, how do I see my end days, and then how do I explain those views to my family and friends, how do I get them to understand what I want at the end of life and that type of thing. So we started doing that just to educate people because what we didn't want to happen, and that's kind of where this most form came into play, was they want people to just check boxes. They want death to be simple. I don't want this, I don't want this, I don't want that, and then that's it, you know, then we're done. And death is not like that.

I'm sure, you know, I've buried both my parents and my brother at 60 years old and each of them died in different ways. And you can't just check a box and say I don't want this, I don't want that. And that's what that most form wants to do. Our medical professionals have changed so much over the years. It used to be, you know, do no harm, and now we have this whole quality of life paradigm that they look at. And boy, do we really get in trouble when we start talking about quality of life because what is your quality of life?

What do I say your quality of life should be? And so that's kind of what our panel does. We kind of talk about that with folks, how to prepare, and that kind of thing. But, you know, Pastor Ernie, I'm sure you have seen death in your life, and it just is tough for people to talk about, but it needs to be talked about. And like I said, no two deaths are the same.

They can't just be lumped in and say, hey, I want to do this, I want to do that. Oh, absolutely. I've been with people at their bedside many, many times when they've died in effect.

Just down the road from where I live, I have a nursing home that's very large. And when needed, when you have someone that's got, you know, when their family is there and maybe the death rattle has started, they'll call me and I come down and we pray over the people. But we've, I've led over the years many people to the Lord on their death bed. And that's part of the process, too.

You know, people want to rush through it. You know, our society wants quick fixes, suffering, and as Christians, you know, we have a beautiful teaching, you know, on suffering. And that, you know, we can, you know, make suffering, you know, part of Christ's suffering. And in that, you know, we can, you know, use that time to maybe heal up wounds with one another or heal, you know, wounds within ourselves or, you know, look back on our life instead of just, you know, not trying to, you know, avoid it and go the quickest, shortest, you know, path of least resistance. And not that we want people to suffer, but it does, it does have a purpose and we can give it a purpose in the end of our days.

You know, you're absolutely right. I remember Pastor Lenz, who was one of my mentors, he had, he was in the hospital, it was his last night, and his family had left. And it was four o'clock in the morning when the hospital called me and said, you better get up here right away because you don't have long. And his family were here and they left and we don't know how to get a hold of them. And so I rushed up there and I sat there and he, you know how they, when your organs shut down, you blowed up?

Right. Well, his stomach was all blowed up. He was in a lot of pain and so I took his hand and him and I started praying. And the funny thing was that while we were praying, both of us fell asleep. And what happened, the next thing I know, he's calling me and I wake up and he said, son, he said, the Lord just showed me where I'm going to. He just showed me what heaven is like. He said, son, you won't believe it. He said that soon I'm going to be there. He said, and the pain's gone. He said, he had a smile from ear to ear. He said, if you can only see it, you know, that was, I'll never forget that. And then he died.

He just... Beautiful. Yeah. That is beautiful. And so yeah, that's, you know, like I said, it's tough for people to talk about, but as Christians, you know, we're called, we're told that we are to prepare for that time. You know, I know lots of people like to make their financial plans and they do wills, but you know, as Christians, we're called to, you know, that's not the end of the journey for us. That's a step to our new beginning. So we're called to prepare for that. So that's what we like to share with folks.

So my panel consists of myself and I talk a little bit about the pro-life side of end of life and that type of thing. And then I have a nurse that joins us and she's real great talking about how our medical, boy, how our medical atmosphere has changed in hospitals. I mean, you don't even see your own doctor in the hospital anymore, pastor or anything. They don't even come. You get the internist, you get who's ever on duty that night. And so, you know, all these things that you may have discussed with your doctor on your care, you know, your doctor's not even there anymore.

No, but their bill will show up. Amen. Amen. Right. So she talks a little bit about that. She was a long-time nurse down in Dayton with a Good Samaritan hospital in their ethics committee. So she dealt with this question all the time.

So she brings a great perspective on how to talk to the doctor, what questions to ask, and then your family as well, you know, how to talk to them. You know, I always like to kid that, you know, this is probably not the topic that you want to bring up at Thanksgiving dinner. This is probably a topic for another day.

But, you know, sometimes people don't want to talk about it. You know, they all, grandma, you're going to live forever. Well, no, grandma's not. And, you know, she might want to talk about it and, you know, her thoughts on that.

So it's a great – she does a great part. And then the other part of our panel is an attorney. And he's an estate planning attorney.

So he does this every day, all day. And he talks about the different forms at the end of life, that talks about your living will, DNR, all the different things that you can find. And then mostly he focuses on the healthcare power of attorney. And that's really the most important thing that we recommend people have. Living wills are great and other things. But you really want that one person that you've designated, that you've talked to, that knows what you want at the end of life. And can be your voice, you know, when you aren't able to. So, again, he does a great job with that, explaining how the healthcare power of attorney works.

And, like I said, it gets people thinking, gets people planning. We give them some homework to go home and to, you know, maybe start picking that person to be your healthcare power of attorney. And honestly, Pastor Ernie, if you have – if your listeners even have a grandchild or a child that's over 18, you should seriously be talking to them about having a healthcare power of attorney, because – Yeah, I mean, this is for all ages. Absolutely, because you can't assume that the doctors, you know, are going to talk to you anymore in this day and age of HIPAA. I know the attorney gave me a hard time.

We sent our daughter to college in Maryland. And he said, I hope you had her do a healthcare power of attorney. I'm like, no. He's like, you can't assume that something happens to her when she's off at college that they'll talk to you in the hospital. So it's something that everybody needs to consider and have in place. And, you know, it's not financial. It's not anything else. It's just someone that can speak for you when you can't. And as soon as you, you know, are back to, you know, out of anesthesia or, you know, recovering again, then all your decisions go back to you. So it's not like it's a permanent, you know, revocation of your rights or anything.

It's just – it's a springing document and it just springs in when you need it to. So he does a great job. And that's basically, you know, what our panel does.

It just educates folks, gets people talking and thinking because, you know, like I said, death isn't always everybody's favorite topic. Well, you know, Margie, I've got a lot of experience in that field. As far as powers of attorney goes, I've got a whole drawer full of people who have made me their power of attorney because they've got nobody else. They're without family.

And so they don't know whoever else, and I'm the guy that always ends up saying, okay, I can't say no. Well, what kind of questions would they ask you as a power of attorney? Well, it talks about do you want to have water, food? Do you want to keep on water, food? Kind of like be left on life support or stuff like that?

Right, right. You know, and it's also not even for end of life. Like your living will is a legal document that springs in when you have an end of life event. But a healthcare power of attorney can be, you know, say you just go in for knee surgery or hip replacement surgery and there's a complication. Do you want a blood transfusion? You know, maybe you're part of a faith, a religious faith that doesn't allow blood transfusions.

Do you want that? Maybe you get an infection and they ask if you want certain treatments. And then this healthcare power of attorney can make those decisions for you until you, you know, are back to, you know, making your own decisions again. So it can be something very simple, but at least there's someone there. On your side, someone that you know is on your side.

Yes, exactly. Well, you know, when it comes to what you're talking about too, when I had surgery, I told them I wanted them to take my blood ahead of time so they needed blood that would use my own blood because, you know, you have people out there today with COVID and HIV and all of that. And, you know, you really can't, the medical profession has lost a whole lot of confidence by the people because of this whole thing with COVID and big pharma and all. But, you know, Marjorie, I tell you, I had an experience that most people don't. For 45 years, I ministered upon death row and in that time, I sat right next to a couple feet away from inmates as they put them to sleep, you know, as they, but, you know, every one of our guys, every one of our guys that were executed, they all died with a smile on their face. And so, because I spent the night before that, I spent with them going over what to expect and what happens and praying, and so all of them died with a smile.

And they knew that when they opened their eyes, they were going to be in a better place. And the one time when we were down there at death row up in Chile, we were surrounded by a number of guards because the one inmate, he had gotten himself in a little bit of violence, but as we ministered, the guards were standing, you know, right two feet away from me all around the table. And they listened to everything that we did, and when we were finished, every one of them received, they all asked me for a Bible, and all the way down here, you know, I had to use the men's room, but where we were there, in order to go to a men's room, you had to walk down actually to the furthest room down the hall. And those guards all walked down there with me, all had Bible questions, every one of them.

That's great. Yeah, I mean we, you know, that was a preparation that, you know, God blessed that you were there to help them prepare for their death, and we hope that everybody, you know, plans for their death. How, you know, not that, you know, you want to die, but you should have a plan spiritually, financially, and then again health-wise, you need a plan, and I don't know if you've ever been a part of this circus past journey, but you get into a hospital room or a nursing home room, and you have family members literally arguing with one another over this person's care. And that's not a great situation either. I mean, we had that with my dad a little bit, and it was just heartbreaking. And, you know, had we been more prepared, and, you know, my dad had put things in place and said, hey, this person is making my decision, and, you know, maybe my sister and I wouldn't have been fighting, and that type of thing. So that is just, you know, end of life is something that, you know, you want peace at. You don't want family members bickering. You don't want people feeling, you know, like they don't know what to do.

You want it to be peaceful for all involved, if possible. I had a situation, you know, when my mother, my mother had strokes, several strokes, and she had a, oh, I'm trying to think of a thing breaking in her brain, but anyhow... Ambulism? Yeah, an aneurysm, and so we went to, we were at the clinic, Cleveland Clinic, talking to the doctor, the guy that was in charge, and I was there with my siblings, and he said, well, if she was my mother, I would make her comfortable, and I give her about two weeks, and just make her comfortable, and just let her die. I said, well, she's not your mother, she's my mother, and I tell you what I want, and my siblings, they just watched and see how I was going to handle this. I said, I want you to do everything you can to save her life. And he kind of was startled, and he says, okay, I understand, and guess what, two weeks turned into two and a half years, she was, she had recovered all her, well, she never was really that much able, she was in a wheelchair, she wasn't walking again, but mentally, she had totally recovered mentally.

And so, there you go, we had another two and a half years with her, and I was with her the night she died, I was standing right next to her. Yeah, I mean, we need to leave it to God's timing, and allow things to, we all know stories of doctors that didn't get it right, that thought they knew what it was, and then it wasn't, and on and on and on. Yeah, I think we just have to trust it, and trust, you know, take the information, ask good questions, take that information, and then, you know, make the best decision possible, but, you know, allow them to, you know, two and a half years, I mean, that's a heck of a time, I mean, that's fabulous, Pastor Ernie, and you know, that's the time that God had allocated for her. So, let's not play God and, you know, try to, or leave it in the hands of the doctors, because we know that, you know, unfortunately, like I said, our medical community has really kind of turned into a, you know, that I know when I took my dad in, he was 90 years old, and he was sharp as a tack till the very end, and he just had some physical limitations, and every time he fell and broke his hip, and I took him in there, and they started talking around him, and he was sitting right there, and he's like, oh, well, you know, he's 90 years old, I'm not sure how much, you know, we can invest in that, I'm like, excuse me?

You know, he's sitting right there, and he's fine mentally, and he's fine, and he wants to, you know, just get his hip fixed, and let's, you know, work on that. So, they sometimes make judgments, and, you know, again, that whole quality of life, you know, we don't judge quality of life, we judge the quality of medical interventions, are they going to do what we want them to do? And if they're not, then, well, then, yeah, maybe we don't need them, but we're never judging someone's quality of their life, it's always the quality of the medical intervention, and how is that going to best serve this person?

Well, you're absolutely right, and that's, the dying is the last act of living, and the Bible makes it very, very clear that you are to make the person that's dying as comfortable as you can. You know, this, I know Dr. Wilkie used to be really, he was an imperious, in a couple cases we had, where they took the water, they refused to give this lady water or food, and, you know, that, we made, I mean, we really went after, we went after the hospital, we really went after them big time, and so, yeah, you know. That's still very common today, Pastor Ernie, because now, most hospital facilities see food and water as a medical treatment that can be stopped or started, just like any type of medicine. And we would never, we would never say that in the pro-life community, you know, food and water is always provided, it's not a medical, you know, intervention that you can stop or start, so if they can't take water, you know, through the mouth, you know, can it be done through, intravenously, I mean, I remember the day they used to give people, like, watch cloths to suck on, to get some moisture, and we all remember the story of Terri Schiavo, I mean, that's just heartbreaking.

Yeah, there was a lot of us went down to Florida when that took place there. I can't believe her husband. Her brother talked about how she just kind of dried out, you know, her mouth cracked, I mean, it was brutal, I mean, just brutal. And her husband, how could he do that? I mean, you know, what kind of a person is he? Selfish. Extremely selfish. I wonder if he's still alive today.

I don't know, but Bobby Schinwell will be, her brother will be the first one to tell you that he wishes she would have had her, you know, health care power of attorney, because that was all because it was the family fighting against the husband, because there weren't any, you know, instructions in place. Unbelievable. But anyhow, we're coming up to a break. It's up to you. I know you get beauty sleep because it's evident, don't work for Ken and I.

No, we'd have to be put in a coma. Well, I have a cup of tea, so I'm going to stay awake for a little while longer. All right. Well, you're, if you'd like to take some phone calls, we'll come back, we'll open up the phone lines and take some calls. The phone lines will be open at 888-677-9673, that's 888-677-9673. Margie Christie is here, she's the executive director of Date and Write to Life, and she'll be leading the End of the Life panel, which will discuss moral and legal topics that you should be aware of. By the way, many of you out there, if you have any questions about that, you may have some situations that you know right now, okay, because we get calls when we do programs like this, you know, we get a lot of calls telling us that they have a loved one in the hospital here. And I went into a hospital, big Jim Garner, one of our pastors, Margie, he was in a hospital, a nursing home, he called and said, you better get down here, get me out of here, they're trying to kill me. And we went down, well I went down because Jim was one of our pastors, we had eight pastors that went to death row on a regular basis, they were all my associate pastors. And most all of them have gone home to be with the Lord, but Jim said, you better get down and get me out of here.

Jim was a little guy, they called him Big Jim, but Big Jim was only 4'10". Yeah, and he was very thin, listen, I've never seen anything like this, he weighed 46 pounds, he was in the bed, you could see his ribs, you could see his skin was like transparent, okay. And so we went in that nursing home, the heat was unbelievably hot, and so when we came in there and we saw him sitting in the bed there, they had told him, look, you might as well accept it, you're going to die here, you're never going to leave here, okay. And he told him no, he said I'm not, he said I'm calling my pastor, he gets down here, he's going to tell about what you people are doing on this, you know, he's going to go on the radio and he's going to let you know. So we went in there, we weren't the prettiest pastors in the world, us guys, but we went in there and as soon as we left him, they came and they said we don't want that bunch coming back here anymore, get yourself packed and we're taking you, we're shipping you out.

Good for you guys. And we already have made him a place to go, and so we're coming up to a break, when we come back from the break we're going to open the phone lines and we'll take calls, if you have a question, 888-677-9673, be right back after this, a lot more to come. Thank you for listening to What's Right, What's Left, the voice of the Christian resistance. To support this ministry, head to WRWL.org, that's WRWL.org. Mail your donations to What's Right, What's Left Ministries, 14781 Sperry Road, Newberry, Ohio, 44065. If you missed part of tonight's program, you can check out the podcast at thewordcleveland.com, thewordcleveland.com. Once again, thank you for listening and supporting What's Right, What's Left Ministries, the voice of the Christian resistance. Stay tuned, the second hour is coming up next.