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Thank you. This is What's Right, What's Left with Pastor Ernie Sanders. Good evening and welcome to another edition of What's Right, What's Left on this 14th day of December 2023. And indeed this is the voice of the Christian resistance and tonight our producer for the whole while is none other than Style.

Hey, Style. Hey, good evening, Pastor. And tonight, right here in the studio, almost live, we have none other than little Lisa. Good evening, everyone. Our special guest tonight, the author from Queer to Christ, George Carneo. Hey, George.

Hey, Pastor Sanders. Thank you for having me on the show. Good to have you here today. We have a whole lot to talk about tonight, so I'm just going to get, we always do some Bible study.

And I've kind of changed things up a little bit tonight. We're going to go into 1 Corinthians chapter 6 and these verses I'm sure are very familiar to you. Verses 9 through 11.

And we read this. Know you not that unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God. That the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Be not deceived, neither fornicators, nor adulterers, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor executioners, or extortioners, I'm sorry.

We had executioners on that too. Shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you, but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. And we're going to start there. George, let me ask you a question here. I don't know how old you are, but I've got a feeling I'm older than you. I'm 59 now. Pardon? I'm 59. Okay, 69.

Yeah, I'm older than you. Anyhow, but back in the 50s if you remember, you had, we never used the word homosexual or we never used the word gay. That didn't start really until about the 1960s. They used the word sodomite, and that was taken directly from God's word in the Bible. Why do you think that that word is not used anymore? Of course, obviously, they wanted to soften the harshness of the sin, and so they gave it a different name. Now they call it gay.

So what do you think, what brought on the change? Well, I was born in 64, so I never heard the term sodomite being used unless I heard it in God's word, but I think you nailed it. As we continue to change the language to soften, it's almost like whatever the sin is, we sugarcoat it with a new name, and we try to just water it down to make it not seem so extreme. But yes, even since I've been out, I've heard the name just kind of change as we go along the way, because it never used to be LGBTQ. We didn't know what transgender was.

When I came out in the early 80s, it was just simply a transvestite or someone who was struggling with gender dysphoria, but it was mostly just gay and lesbian. So it has evolved over time. Back in those days, back in the 50s, homosexuality, what they call today, or sodomy, was considered a mental illness. Why do you think, what was it that changed the mind of the American Psychiatric Association? I think it's the pressure from the leftists and the powers that be that just hate God. I think trying to normalize sin has been a big factor.

But as you know, Pastor Sanders, you have to really beat the public down over time to slowly implement the new thought, or the new 1984 Orwell speak, as I like to think of it. Because, as you know, even with pedophilia, as horrific as that is, they're slowly softening it now to groom you to believe that it's minor attractive persons, or it's pedosexual. This is a sexual orientation, and people can't help it. So they're slowly grooming and just beating people down with these terms, or whatever the sin is, just so people will gradually and slowly come to accept it. All right, so here, that term they're using, right, the ACLU is really pushing hard to try to legalize pedophilia.

And they want to change it, you're right, to the term minor attraction. Of course, we've seen that, you know, in the pro-life movement. They wanted to change the baby to product of conception.

I remember that very clearly. And so, or pro-choice instead of pro-death. You know, God's word in the Bible is very, very clear here. You're pro-life or you're pro-death. It's one or the other, you know, life or death.

It seems like up or down, cold or hot, right or left. And of course, we know that Stalin had made that statement that a lie told long enough and loud enough became the truth, and what is the truth today is a lie tomorrow, and what is a lie today is the truth tomorrow. In other words, it can be whatever you decide if you persuade the people. And of course, we know where that comes from, don't we? Yes.

And so, here now, go ahead. No, I was just going to say it's just interesting because when the feminist or the pro-choice movement, the individuals will claim, oh, it's not a baby, it's just a clump of cells. And it's okay for them to, quote, murder their unborn child that's just a clump of cells. But you let a man kill a pregnant woman, and he's a sorry, and then they'll use all the expletives, and he's murdered this woman and her poor unborn child, and that man will be held on two counts of murder.

So it's interesting that for the pro-choice women, it's just a clump of cells when they murder their baby, but when a man murders a pregnant woman, it's suddenly a life and he is held for two counts of murder. Such hypocrisy. Yeah, hypocrisy. The Lord Jesus said, woe unto you hypocrites, woe unto you hypocrites, woe unto you hypocrites.

Now, I remember when Hillary Clinton came to Cleveland some years ago, and she had her book, and she was pushing her book that she wrote, It Takes a Village. And so I went down, she just happened to be down close to where we were at the abortion mill, where we were out there saving babies, where I was preaching at the abortion mill. And so I went in there, and I mixed it because I'm on radio, so they didn't know what I looked like, most of those people. And I sat in, and they were speaking openly, these liberals, these democrats, and they were bragging, they were bragging about their hypocrisy. To us, hypocrisy is repulsive, you know, but they were bragging about how they would tell people to do one thing and they did the other, and it was like something to be embraced. And so now here, let me ask you this, because obviously, you know, they're trying to tell people, I just read to you from the Bible, and where it had the effeminate, where the effeminate was mixed in here with covenants, with extortioners, with thieves, with revilers, with drunkards, with idolaters, with fornicators. So virtually the word sodomite there, or effeminate, or what they call homosexuals, is not named in a company of very positive people. So they tell you that you're born, you're born that way, okay? Is anybody born a sodomite today? I used to believe that lie, because when you're in the lifestyle, and I was in it for 25 years, and for people who don't know my background, I was born, I'm the son of a Baptist minister, and I grew up in the church. But I went into the lifestyle, and I detail in my book what really set the stage for me to go into that lifestyle, and what really kept me in that bondage for 25 years, and what God had to do to reveal the lies to get me out of that bondage. And one of the lies you often hear is that you are born gay, and that there's a gay gene, that Jesus never talked about homosexuality, that David and Jonathan were homosexual lovers, that God is transgender, and that Jesus was a closeted homosexual, he never came out of the closet, that's why he hung around men. You get all of these lies, and they twist and pervert God's Word to the point of where you don't know what to think anymore. But I realized that God is not going to condemn something, but then turn around and create me to be something that He condemns. And I finally understood we were all born with a sin nature. And at the end of the day, the LGBT individuals, I would ask the Christian community to have a lot of compassion and empathy for them, because many of them have really come from real severe childhood trauma, shame, rejection, and all forms of abuse. Maybe there's a disconnect with the father or the mother, but if these individuals can be counseled in the right way, and spoken to by Christians in love, who would speak the truth of God's Word to them, and truly take the time to invest in them, many of them are so broken and they're hurting, but they don't know that there's a God who loves them.

I didn't know that. I really never thought of God as the answer, or that Jesus really cared. I just couldn't fathom that, and I couldn't understand, well then, if I wasn't born gay, then where did this come from?

Why was I saddled with these feelings? And there was really a lot of hostility, rage, and anger at God, and especially pastors, including my own father, when they would speak about Sodom and Gomorrah, and they would just rage against the Sodomites, the perverts. And the Christians who would say, you know, God created AIDS to kill the fags, and God hates fags, and fags are going to hell, that stole any hope I had of believing that God wanted anything to do with me.

Which is why I really went down a path of destruction, and getting involved in the occult, and in Hinduism, and even in the New Age movement. But no, we are not born gay, but there are so many lies out there that keep things so twisted and distorted, and we know it's from the enemy, but I would ask the Christians to please be patient with these individuals, because while there are a lot of them who are just resistant, and they're just hateful, and they just don't want to hear the truth, there are so many LGBT individuals who were raised in Christian homes. They do have a faith in God, but there is a true struggle, and a turmoil, and a battle going on within them, because I want people to know and understand that we all want to love and be loved. And imagine being told that what you are doing is wrong, that it's an abomination, but you have to leave it. And if God hasn't changed your feelings for someone of the opposite sex, and you think, well then I've got to live my life alone, and I'm going to be alone, and you're being told you have to choose between following God's Word, and being obedient to Him, or else be in the world and do something that is in rebellion to Him. It's really such a dilemma, and this is why my father and I would have so many arguments, and it just cut me to the core when he would bring up God's Word, because I felt he wasn't understanding it from the flip side of, you know, Dad, I want to love and be loved like everybody else. So there was a real battle and a dilemma that is going on with so many LGBT individuals, but unfortunately, because of Hollywood, and the liberal mainstream media, the LGBT activists, and the liberal theologians who are twisting and perverting God's Word, they are bombarded with so many lies, including the year-born gay lie.

It's really hard to discern the truth, but sadly, maybe your audience will understand it if I say it this way. The reason why it took me so long to really come to know the truth of God's Word is because when society, at least in the time that I was growing up, when you are already being abused and neglected, rejected, you have, you know, the Christians don't want you, I'm being bullied in school, I'm hearing about Sodom and Gomorrah, I think God hates me, and you feel all of this rejection and condemnation. The last thing I wanted to do was sit down and read God's Word and have to hear more condemnation.

There was really such a struggle and a turmoil for me, and I know for so many others. So I would ask people to please have a lot more patience and compassion, because God does love the LGBT community. He hates their sin, but he hates the sin of heterosexuals as well. But Jesus died for all of us, and God is doing a work in the LGBT community, and so many of those individuals are leaving that life, and I've seen it on social media. They talk about how miserable they are, but how when they found Christ, they finally found peace.

So there is hope in getting out of that bondage. Well, I got news for you. None of them ever found Christ. He was never lost. He found them, okay? That's the way it works.

The Bible says that God finds you, you don't find him. But let me ask you this. How old were you when you started thinking or having these feelings of homosexual? I was in first grade. I was both attracted.

I can see the boy and the girl today. I was attracted to a little girl, but I was also attracted to a boy in my class, and this is probably 1970. You know, you certainly didn't have people talking about it, and celebrities certainly weren't coming out of the closet. But as I grew and went on through elementary and junior high and high school, the feelings toward guys became much stronger. And it really was, I believe, because there was such a disconnect with my father.

He wasn't very overly demonstrative in his affection and love. But then to go to school and to be rejected by my male peers as well, to be bullied and threatened and harassed and punched, and one guy threatening to slit my throat, I really went through a lot of abuse. So I was so deficient in male bonding, and I had a lot of female love around me, not only from family members, but the girls at school really embraced me.

So that's why when I turned 18 and went into a gay bar, it was the first time that men were looking at me differently and giving me a different kind of attention that I had craved as a small child. And that's what really caused me to become addicted to that life, because I was trying to fill a void that I didn't realize only God could fill. But thank God he's patient and long-suffering, and he helps me to get to the place where he gave me the strength to leave that life, and he helped me, through counseling and with the work of the Holy Spirit working in my life, to give me the healing from those root core issues. Okay. Is your dad still alive? I know he'd have to be in his 90s, but is he still alive today? He passed away about a year and a half ago.

Okay. Let me ask you this. What was it, do you think, okay, you say your dad was kind of hostile. Do you think that he felt that what you chose as a lifestyle was bringing shame to him and his family? I'm not really sure what he thought.

I will tell you this. It wasn't until a few years ago when God got me out of the lifestyle and I left Los Angeles, and I went to Alabama to spend some time with him, that he actually said to me, son, I was never looking at this from a worldly perspective. I was always looking at it from an eternal perspective, and I just couldn't bear the thought of dying and going to hell. Now, when he said it to me that way, it changed my whole thinking, and I became less defensive with him, because again, I just thought he wasn't being sensitive to the struggle and not trying to understand it. But I don't think it was so much about bringing shame on him. Maybe there was, but he never indicated that that was it.

I think he was just really concerned for my soul and where I spent eternity. All right, so now here, yeah, and that is the case, being a Baptist preacher myself for many, many years, is very frustrating when you seem to have people, especially family and friends, where they're like in La La Land. It's like they don't embrace reality. There's only one absolute source of truth and reality, and that's God's Word, the Bible. You know, it's the only absolute, total, complete. In fact, it's the greatest source of wisdom and knowledge that ever existed. I mean, it's far, far, far beyond its time, you know, according to today. If we go back 6,000 years ago and watch what the men were writing, and we take it forward today.

I used to do radio programs some years ago, and about once a month, sometimes twice, I'd have a nuclear physicist. And there was a whole team of these fellows that would come on, and they would talk about how the Bible is light years ahead of everything else. If you understand and you know how to kind of decode, if you will, the messages that are in the Scripture, because a lot of times it's there, even though it's been there all this time, it's not time for us to understand it until that time comes. Now, some of us can. Some of us, we understand and we see what's happening. But when you try to explain to people, look, this is reality, not the world you're living in, not your social life out there, but the Word of God is reality.

And if you died today, you'd burn in hell forever. That's a reality. But it's a reality that the vast majority of people can't grasp. It's like, well, you know, that hasn't been voted on yet.

It hasn't been passed into law, and the Supreme Court hasn't decided on that. In reality, there's only one Supreme Court. That's Father, Son, Holy Ghost, and they have decided on that, okay? And so it's frustrating as a Bible teacher, as a pastor, all these years, when you deal with people that can't seem to grasp the realities of logic and the truth. And so that's probably where your father was coming from, wasn't it? Yes, and I can look back now and even see that I was blinded by so much of that, because again, I've had 25 years of propaganda, and it really is a cult. And trying to leave that, I know how difficult it was for me as God was slowly trying to deprogram me of the lie, especially of the liberal theologians. I'm telling you, Pastor Sanders, it was really a challenge for me, because whenever I would read God's Word, I didn't know what to believe anymore, because I had been so programmed with the lies. But thankfully, again, God was patient.

And I think, Pastor Sanders, the thing that I would say is there are some people who want their ears tickled, and they don't want to know the truth. But for me, it was really down to the point of my sanity, because at one point, by the time I was already three years into that lifestyle, I was already battling a sex addiction, drugs and alcohol, and I was a prostitute, and I was struggling with depression and had attempted suicide. And 22 years later, I'm still struggling with the depression, just not happy in that lifestyle. And as I'm sitting there so desperately trying to understand God's Word and begging Him, you know, God, if it's okay to be a homosexual but in a committed, monogamous relationship, please give me peace about that, and I would trust You'll put a good Christian man in my life.

Because, you know, again, we all want to love and be loved and grow old with someone and have something stable. But unlike a lot of the LGBT individuals, I honestly said to God, but if it is wrong under all circumstances, and You will help me to know it and settle that within me, I will still follow You. And God answered it. And I'm going to tell you, Pastor Sanders, the day that I truly accepted the truth of God's Word and repented of that life and turned my life around, and I asked Jesus, finally, in my heart, in the way that I finally understood it, I will tell you a couple of things happened, not only that torment that I had in my mind from all those years of just dabbling in the occult and new age and just these doctrines of demons and a lot of things that I was involved with. God took that torment away. And I finally had my peace of mind.

I couldn't believe it. And I had peace with myself. I knew that God had forgiven me. But lastly, I knew it in my spirit. It was as if God said to me, You and I are now good.

And I knew I had gotten things right with Father God. And I've been out of that life for 16 years now. I've not turned back to even look at that lifestyle. I hated it so much.

It was so miserable. And I just, today, I really try to witness to the LGBT individuals and just, if nothing else, plant the seed and just say, if nothing else, if you can be honest and say that you are truly not happy with what you are doing, you know, what do you have to lose by giving Jesus a chance? Amen. George, I'm up against the break. Hang tight, because I want to pick this up on the other side. We'll be right back.

OK. Some say I'm a little bit too far right when I write and sing my song, but on Judgment Day before God's throne, I'd rather be right than wrong. Lord, I'd rather be right than wrong.

They say no one murdered more than Hitler did. Most people would say that's true. But over 50 million babies that were never born might disagree with you.

Yeah, they might disagree with you. Some say I'm a little bit too far right when I write and sing my song, but on Judgment Day before God's throne, I'd rather be right than wrong. Lord, I'd rather be right than wrong. We got a right to feel the way we feel.

We got a right to make a stand. And I'm proud to say on my wedding day that my woman was not a man. A great big ugly man. Some say I'm a little bit too far right when I write and sing my song, but on Judgment Day before God's throne, I'd rather be right than wrong. Lord, I'd rather be right than wrong.

Thank God I'm saved on Judgment Day. I'd rather be right than wrong. Lord, I'd rather be right than wrong. Alrighty, we're back. I'd rather be right than wrong.

And that was Julie Daner, Danny Ray, and yours truly, old Pastor Ernie. And I'd rather be right than wrong. And boy, I want to tell you, we're back.

I got to give you a quick announcement though. Listen, folks. Help us defend Ohio's Second Amendment. Get a pen and paper.

Get a pen and paper and write this down. Because what they're trying to do, the communists, we call them Democrats, the communists and the rhinos have come together to form an unholy alliance. And what they want to do is they want to take, just tear the Second Amendment here in Ohio, piece by piece, little things. They want to just talking about stabilizing devices on firearms or firearm braces piece by piece. You know, they get to the point where it's all right, you can have a gun, but no bullets.

Okay. That's, I'm not kidding you. And the goal is to disarm America. The communists want to disarm us for good reasons. They're evil people.

And they are the enemy from the walks among us. Now, that's reality. Now, there is a bill called House Bill 51. House Bill 51, we want to get it, they're trying to hold it up.

We expect that it would be for a vote, and a vote would guarantee us the right that they could not continue to tear apart the Second Amendment. Now, here's what I need you all to do. I need you to call Speaker Jason Steffens.

Kind of remind them that you pay their bills, you pay their salary, they work for us. House Speaker Jason Steffens. Jason Steffens. Here is his phone number. 614-466-1366.

Okay. Here is his phone number. 614-466-1366. I'll do it one more time because I know some of you are running around trying to find a pen and paper.

614-466-1366. And he is the House Speaker. It's important that this vote gets taken, whether it passes or whether it fails, so that gun voters across the state can know where their personal representatives stand when it comes to the Second Amendment. And listen, folks, sometimes I think the rhinos are worse than the communists themselves because they're traitors. And so you need to call and let them know. Don't let them take your guns away. That's what they want to do piece by piece.

That's how communism works. We're back with George Carnell, and he is the author of From Queer to Christ. And George, let me ask you a question here. When you were growing up, you said that you were kind of abused by your classmates. What was it that made them want to abuse you? Did you appear effeminate?

Yes, I would say, yes, effeminate to some degree, but also I was just a short little runt and I think I was just an easy target. And then the bullying just got stronger year after year. I mean, there were people I didn't even know who would just walk up to me and someone may punch me in the face or somebody would come up and threaten me or like the guy who threatened to slit my throat.

I didn't even know him. There was just something about me that I guess that appeared different and they just saw an easy prey and I was bullied. And it was just very unfortunate. And so here, because sometimes it is possible because what happens is in the process of growing up when you're young that way, sometimes you have girls that are tomboys. They would rather be with the boys any day with other girls now just because that's just the way they are. It doesn't make them bad. And there are some boys that were, they'd rather be with the girls, but they weren't necessarily homosexual. And so I noticed that growing up. Now, going back to what you said about God's Word, the Bible, does it actually mean that?

Well, it doesn't stutter. The very first time the word abomination was used in the Bible, it was used to describe the sodomites, the sin of sodomy. And of course, we've seen a number of times in Scripture where the different kings were told to tear down the homies of the sodomites. In fact, David instructed his men when he killed a sodomite not to touch him with his hands. In four different places in Scripture, sodomites are actually referred to as dogs.

He's referred to as dogs. And so I think the Bible is really clear when it comes to that sin. But now, again, the Bible makes it very clear, too. God hates the hands that shed innocent blood. God hates feet that are swift to run to mischief. And he hates all of those that come in iniquity. And so all of these things, but I think even the greatest condemnation is apostate preachers, apostate clergy.

I think there's a super hot place in hell for apostate clergy because those are the ones he said, woe unto you, woe unto you, woe unto you, the clergy and the lawyers. And so I think the Bible is very clear that women are not to be ordained ministers. Women are not to be the pastors of churches. It's like the sin of sodomy. It doesn't stutter there.

It's clear on that. God has never called a woman to pastor a church with authority over men. But here now, somewhere along the line, these apostate denominations by twisting and spinning and pushing and pushing and pushing. These apostate denominations by twisting and spinning and perverting the word of God. Here, as far as I can see it, in United Church of what they call United Church of Christ, the vast majority of the new, what they call ordained ministers are women. And just about all of them are lesbians.

Okay. So when you said that, what kind of an effect did they have on you? Well, I actually didn't listen to them. I actually, God put me into a liberal Baptist church in Los Angeles, and the pastor was moving to have an LGBT class within the church. And I was very excited about that because I wanted to meet others who were struggling with this issue. And I will tell you, Pastor Sanders, one of the things that would just make my blood boil when I was growing up and even as a young adult is that, you know, they would have classes for divorced individuals in the church. And I know God's word speaks about that as well. But here you had a group of people who had gone through divorces and obviously a very painful time, but they had others who were going through it and they could network and lift each other up and pull them through it. And some of them may go on to meet others in that class and maybe get married and build their lives together. I never understood why is it that the churches aren't providing classes for LGBT individuals. And one of the arguments you often hear is that, well, we don't want them to get together because they may try and have sex. Well, how many pastors do we know have had sex or sexual relations with their secretaries or how many couples in the churches have had affairs?

You know, if I wanted sex, I know where to go find sex. I don't need to go to church to get it. And so it would just infuriate me because I needed to find others who were walking this path and struggling with it that I could talk to who hopefully truly loved the Lord and wanted to do what was right. So when the pastor brought about this class, I was all excited. And as time went on, I really thought the Lord put me there because he was going to deprogram me of the lives of the conservative Christians.

And he was finally going to help me to settle this. And I got really excited. But as time went on, Pastor Sanders, I can tell you, I found myself really at the point of having a breakdown.

And I would just sit in my car sometimes and just beat on the steering wheel and I would cry. And I would just cry out to God and I'd be so angry and going to church and so desperate for peace and peace of mind. But as I went on through month and month and almost three years at this church, I realized that they were pushing it in the direction of gay is OK, that we're under grace narrative. Although in my spirit, there was something saying no. And when I finally got through or finished fighting this battle and fighting against God, I finally told them that I was actually sitting on a panel answering some questions. And this one man said to me, George, where do you think God is really taking you on this journey?

And there was just something about the way he said it. And I knew this was the time where I had to finally accept I can no longer fight God. And I just said, this is not what God has planned for me.

And I'm walking away from this life. And they a lot of the people in the audience who were very liberal really got upset. They were yelling and lesbians were screaming at me. And the moderator was saying, you know, this is George's opinion. And I never felt so attacked in my life here at a liberal church.

You know, liberals are always purporting that they're so loving, tolerant, caring, inclusive, and they respect everyone. But it's all a lie. And I knew right then I'm not even safe in this church.

I walked away from it. And I'm just glad that God helped expose the lies. And so I would say to people, if they want to know a lot of the talking points of these liberal theologians and the LGBT activists.

I actually take the time to outline them in the back of the book and I debunk them with scripture and I debunk a lot of their lives. And so I even address Sodom and Gomorrah as well because that was another contentious issue with me. But when I went back and looked at all of the places in God's Word where God was threatening to destroy cities and he would reference them, you know, to your sisters, Sodom or Gomorrah. When you go back and look at all of the sexual sins or the sins of those particular cities, a lot of it had nothing to do even with sexual sin.

There was a lot more stuff going on and I take the time to break that down. Really to say to Christians, you know, God's Word is meant to, yes, penetrate the heart and convict them of sin. But we're not there to use God's Word to beat a person down and not give them hope. Yes, we point out the sin but we tell them about the hope that is available because of Christ. And so I really felt that Sodom and Gomorrah had been used to just beat down a group of people when in reality God was really railing against all forms of sin.

And I just took the time to break that down. So I do explain all of that in my book and if there are individuals who are very shy about witnessing to LGBT individuals or family members because it causes a lot of dissension or a contentious, you know, it just makes things very tough. Simply give them the book because not only do I share my story and I expose all of that stuff I just mentioned but I also put the gospel and the plan of salvation in there. It's a very easy read but all of the work is there and I did that because I knew once I gave it to my LGBT friends, I knew I didn't have time or wouldn't have time to witness to all of them. But I knew if they read the book, they had all of the information there and it was really now between them and God. And I could wash my hands because I don't want my LGBT friends to die and go to hell. I care about them immensely. Sadly, I've lost about 90% of them because of my book. They don't like my stance but I still pray for them.

Well, let me ask you this. Okay, when did you cease? Because according to the Bible, if you're a thief, the moment you repent of that and you ask God to forgive you and you stop your stealing, on that moment you're no longer a thief. If you're a prostitute, the moment that you repent of that sin, ask God to forgive you once you receive the forgiveness. And God will forgive you if you're sincere.

Then you're no longer a prostitute as long as you cease from doing that. Now, as far as what your decision when it comes to being a sodomite, did you feel that when you asked God to forgive you? Did you feel that you were no longer that way? All I can tell you is, okay, so I went into the life at 18 and I walked out at 43 and I've been out of that life for 16 years now.

All I can tell you is that when I gave my life to Christ, I was already on the road of celibacy, I would say for about a year to a year and a half. I was so tired of that life. So me repenting of it wasn't a difficult choice. I had given 25 years to something that just brought no joy or satisfaction into my life. Whether you're gay or straight, how much sex, drugs, drinking, pornography, shopping and eating and partying can you do?

It's never going to fill the void. I finally just woke up and realized this isn't working and I had no choice. It was either give God a chance or attempt suicide again because I was really at a breaking point. But now I don't consider myself a gay Christian. I consider myself a Christian because my identity is in Christ. I may have a same-sex attraction, but let me explain.

I can look at a man and think, well, he's good looking, but I can look at a woman and think she's beautiful or she's really pretty. But what God has done is he has taken away that grip, that need to want to sleep with men. Because once I got into counseling and got smart enough to ask the Holy Spirit to also be a part of my counseling session, asking God to please have the counselor ask the questions of things that I need to look at. Or bring to mind things that I have perhaps forgotten that I need to address from my root core child trauma issues. But it was once I went through several years of counseling that God really helped give me that root core healing to where the reason why I was acting out, I no longer felt that need to do it. And that's for anyone who's battling drugs, alcohol, pornography, or even shopping and eating. We all have our reasons for why we have various forms of bondage and addictions.

But there's some root core issues going on there. So this isn't just a homosexual issue. God is in the saving business, he's in the deliverance business, and he's in the healing business. And if we could stop looking to the world for those answers and stop looking at people or these vices to fill that void, but turn to God, give our life to Christ, and let him use us and walk with him. He'll walk with us on that journey, and he will give you the healing and the wholeness that you need to hopefully live a more righteous life, to be the best person you can be. And walking with the Lord, it doesn't mean we're perfect, but that's where God's grace comes in when we fail. Okay, so was there a specific time where, George, you could go back and say, at this time, at this place, I know I received forgiveness and I received the healing, and I know right now today that, well, at that time, that I am no longer a homosexual. The only thing I can say, Pastor Sanders, is that night I discussed the peace and the peace of mind and peace with God, something changed within me.

I just felt as if God had just turned me inside out and washed me clean. It doesn't mean that I don't, I don't know how to describe it. Like I said, I can look at a man or a woman and think they are attractive, but there's no, I don't have this need or desire to want to go sleep with them, because my focus isn't on my sexuality.

I spent 25 years focused on that. My focus now is just being used by God and trying to help Christians understand this issue better and helping LGBT individuals know that it is an abomination, it is wicked, but that Jesus loves them and they need to repent and they need to come out of that lifestyle. And for many, some have left that life and they've gone on to get married to people of the opposite sex, because so many of them want children, they want a family. But for me, it's not really a big deal for me, Pastor Sanders, and I will tell you why, because some people need people, they need relationships. I'm fine being alone, and I like being alone in that this gives me the freedom to be used by God however he wants to use me and to go wherever he wants me to go. Just like with the Apostle Paul, and I'm certainly not comparing myself to him, but when you are single, you have more freedom to be used by God. And I want to spend what few years I have left really doing kingdom work and not just focusing on self and relationships.

It's not an issue for me because I don't think about it and I don't care about it. How do we get your book? You can go on Amazon or if you go to my website, it's GeorgeCarniel.com. You'll see information on the book, you'll see some information on how to know Christ. But if they peruse that first page, on the second page of my website, I have a lot of information exposing Satanism in the schools, information on what the teachers are doing behind the parents' backs. I have a lot of information exposing what's happening, even with the tyrannical laws that are being passed around the world and what's being passed here in the US and how they are going after the children and they are slowly trying to strip the rights away from parents.

I have a lot of that information on page two of my website. It's just the tip of the iceberg, as well as exposing the pornographic children's books that are being used to groom these children, but also for those parents who are perhaps considering or have been praying about homeschooling their children. I have some homeschooling resources on there to at least give you a head start and hopefully parents will wake up and get their kids out of the public school system as soon as they can because they are grooming the children now in elementary school, even with everything from masturbation to anal and oral sex, homosexuality, transgenderism to sex toys from butt plugs to anal lube to dildos. I have the perverted twist discussed that they are now teaching elementary school children and I've seen the curriculum from K through 12 and by the time a child goes through the school system and they graduate, they will have been so indoctrinated with this guilt and perversion, their minds are going to be destroyed.

So I have a lot of really relevant and pertinent information on there that they might find helpful. You know, you just hit on a major topic back, went all the way back to about 1970 here, a lady named Martha Lippitt and myself. Martha had called, she was a woman who was a school teacher, she literally had a one-room schoolhouse, one of the old one-room schoolhouses. She had the Bible on the desk and the ten commandments on the wall and of course with that one little room schoolhouse, the ACLU, the Communist Party came after her. She called me and I jumped in, I said let's fight and so we started promoting homeschooling.

That's where she went into, of course she was the one, I was the one to promote her but she actually started. Well, more and more people started deciding. Now, since back then, 50 years, I have been telling people if you love your children, get them out of the public schools.

If you love your children. And they wrote articles about me here in the local papers. They would say, you know, that here's a guy that's got this inflammatory rhetoric and a fire-breathing Baptist preacher, he thinks that all people that have put their kids in public schools, hate their children, this and that.

They kept doing that and all it did made me mad, made me more persistent in what I was doing. And so, and then it took off here and we really seen homeschooling movement taking off here in Ohio. But you're right, there's a real sinister, sinister, and I mean deep down sinister, fight going on. And I taught courses on how to identify Satanism some years ago.

And so here, what we need, what you said about that in your book, when we come in, I want to have you back on at another time, but when we come past the hour here for just a few minutes of that, I want you to hit on that because the NEA, I think the NEA is filled with Satanists. The entire Democratic Communist Party, they're flush with pedophiles, they're flush with pedophiles. The United States government is the world's largest purveyor in human trafficking and child sex trafficking.

The US government is. We know that and we've been talking about that. And so we're coming up to a break and when we come back from the break, I want you to kind of get into some of that to hit on some of that if you would. But actually, you've got about what, three minutes right now? Go ahead and get started.

Okay. The main thing I would say to parents, and please hear me, the end goal is that they are eventually, if they get their way, these Democrats, these commies, these LGBT activists, they're going to eventually legalize pedophilia. I've been saying this for years in media interviews and people accuse me of being overdramatic, you're crazy, that's never going to happen.

And I've had some come back to me and say, wow, you were right, we see now what's happening. But if they can get it passed, they'll put it under the P, under the LGBTQ plus umbrella, P for pedosexual or map. They already are incorporating the colors on the rainbow flag now. It's light pink and light blue, but if they can get it under the umbrella and get pedophilia legalized, the day will come when if grown men and women want to have sex with your children and your grandchildren and you dare to balk, they will have you arrested for a hate crime and remove your children from the home. And some of the stuff that I have on my website, if you knew the tyrannical laws that are already happening in Canada and in the UK, in Germany, Sweden, a lot of the Western European nations, right now if you dare to post anything that is anti-LGBT or anti-Islam, the police will show up at your door and most likely arrest you.

If you refuse to affirm your child's gender pronouns or support their transition to the opposite sex through cross sex hormones or cross sex surgeries, they will also arrest you and remove your children from the home. Keep your eye on California because they are already starting to push their garbage and don't think that it's not going to make its way across the US. They are not going to stop until they strip the rights of the parents away of you having any say in your child's education and what you teach them and they're going to push this filth and perversion until the day comes where... We're coming up to a break here, George, but you know what? Issue one here in Ohio, that's what issue one, a major part of what issue one is all about.

And so now we're working with our legislators here, letting them know, look, by the Constitution it makes it clear they are to legislate, bake the laws. Hang tight, we're coming up to a break. When we come back from that break, we'll pick it up there.

I'll give you a few minutes and then I think we'll open a phone line to take calls. So anyhow, countdown. What have we got, about 10 seconds? All right, so we've got about 10 seconds now. Did you hear him? He can count down.

Everybody knows right now, style can count. Two, one, let's do it. Thank you for listening to What's Right, What's Left, the voice of the Christian resistance. To support this ministry, head to WRWL.org. That's WRWL.org. Mail your donations to What's Right, What's Left Ministries, 14781 Sperry Road, Newberry, Ohio, 44065. If you missed part of tonight's program, you can check out the podcast at thewordcleveland.com.

Thewordcleveland.com. Once again, thank you for listening and supporting What's Right, What's Left Ministries, the voice of the Christian resistance. Stay tuned.

The second hour is coming up next. Ah, ho ho ho. Hey, what's wrong, Santa? Well, it's these elves. The new ones all feel entitled. They don't want to work their way up the ladder.

In fact, they hardly want to work at all. Then there's those social justice elves. They keep pointing out everyone's differences, dividing the elves and getting them all riled up. And don't get me started about the reindeer rights elves. The shop floor just isn't the happy little place it used to be. We should have used Red Balloon.

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