India Leads the Way – Part 2

What nation is the world's largest democracy, has 1.4 billion people, has 22 official languages, and yet has only 1.5% Christians?

Well, stay with us, listen, and learn. You're listening to Until He Comes, a blend of prophetic and practical biblical studies with Dr. Greg Hinnett, author of The Second Coming of Christ, His Appearing, His Return, Our Preparation. And now, author and teacher Greg Hinnett.

Now I'm back speaking with three of my wonderful Indian friends about their experience of Christianity in India. The purpose of this discussion is to inform you, the American listener, what God is doing in India. What he wants to do, and how he wants you to get involved through intercession, through giving, through participation in a missions organization, or by coming.

Now, we want to begin off this segment by. Asking the questions: Do Hindus still actively worship these thousands of gods? I did notice today. that uh when I was coming back from a very remote village, On a system of both paved roads and dirt roads with innumerable potholes in it. I think I saw 50, 60, 75 Hindu shrines of every size, color, shape, with monkey gods and other gods and all kinds of images.

So I know they do worship them, but tell us a little bit about that and maybe what Hindus believe about salvation. Hindus primarily believe that. Um, you know, the more good you do, It'll just erase your bad.

So if you do 49 good works and 50, I'm sorry, 49 bad works and 50 good works. And you're saved.

Okay.

So it's very typical of false religion, which teaches some form of salvation by good works. Yes. Uh and they believe in reincarnation, where they have seven lives Basically, and in each life, the more good you do, the better life you have.

So, for example, if you're living a very poor life now, and if you're living a very unhappy life now, it's probably because of something that you did in your past life, some kind of sin that you did in your past life.

Now, is that what they call karma? I know there are different forms of karma, right? They believe that a lot. And if you probably were the worst human ever in your past life, then in this life, you're not even a human anymore. You're probably a dog, or a crow, or an ant, or you know, like depend, yeah, a pig, you know.

So, so that's what they believe in. They believe in karma. They believe that in order to attain moksha, which is salvation, you have to. And I think the other term that is used in the West is nirvana, but you don't pronounce it nirvana. How do you pronounce it?

Mirvana. Yes, okay. Yeah, so in order to attain that, you have to be a good person all seven lives.

So giving to the poor or doing deeds like this, no matter how bad of a person you are and how ugly your heart is, it doesn't matter because as long as you're helping, you know, in something or being a better person in the sense that you're sharing something.

So, you know, some good deeds that are just mechanical, it doesn't really involve your heart and soul. You're just, you know, like nothing can beat you because you're just gonna keep on going and you have to do more good than bad. Exactly.

So just one more good thing and you're good. You're good to be saved. Yeah, so that's so that's that's how they attain moksha. All seven lives, that's how they try to so that's that's the reason they don't really focus on The inward cleansing, it's all the outward performance. Yes, okay, yeah.

And you know, there are rivers here in India which are considered sacred. I believe there are three of them. Right. Would you like to tell our hearers about those rivers and what's the belief? What is it that happens when you?

Wash in these rivers, and how often do they need to wash in these rivers? Right. There are seven sacred rivers in India.

Okay.

So, seven of them and seven different states.

Okay.

So, the place where we are right now is the is it also has one river.

So, you know, their belief system is. You know, you have to shave your hair. Shave your head. And if you go to that Son's a goddess or God, and shave your head for all the wrong deeds what you do, and go and wash yourself in that water, you know, as the river water flows like that. You know, your sins are washed away.

Okay.

Yeah, though they see that physical cleansing, going to the river and washing themselves, you know, all their bad deeds are washed away. Yeah, how often do they need to do that? You know, they have uh. Lot of festivals, a lot of rituals happening, you know, every Saturday, every Saturday they have this thing happening, you know, and not just Saturday, you know, in many different places where the seven rivers are flowing, you know, people almost every day, hundreds and thousands of people from all over India go to those rivers. Oh, yes.

Yeah, it's not just in different seasons, but it happens almost every day.

Okay, let me ask you a question.

Now, if a Christian pastor, say for instance, wanted to perform Christian baptism in one of these rivers, what would he have to do?

So we had this similar experience when we were you know baptizing our church believers.

So we've been to this place and you know That place was open for anybody. You can come and you can participate in whatever act you want. They've made it especially after these things, baptisms were happening, you know, these Hindu people what they did is, you know, no Christians are allowed to come to this place and this is our dedicated places for so-called pujas. Pooja in the sense like, you know, they do the rituals for their God, offering, you know, whatever, hair, your, you know, incenses, whatever.

So, you know, one day, The baptisms were happening on behalf of our church, you know, while the act was going on, you know, the Hindu people came and they drew us away from that place. Oh, yeah, it's like don't mess with our baptismal yes, yes, right. You know, you are not supposed to come and do your baptisms in our rivers. In fact, they told you go to Israel and go into the river Jordan and do baptisms there.

Well, that's not a bad suggestion, really, is it, from your Hindu friends.

So, but now, you know, if you stop and think about that in our Christian faith, we do not believe that the washing act itself has any salvific value. You could be baptized a hundred times, but if you were never repented of your sin and were born again, you would not be saved. But so. Uh with that being the case, you know, we should really stop and think though. How sad it is that people actually believe that their sins are being washed away when they are not.

It's utter futility. And so it's very tragic. It's tragic beyond description because the scale of it is just uh enormous. Yeah.

So this goes on in numerous rivers in India. Numerous rivers. And to add to that, another point is: you know, they consider Cow's urine. As a sacred cleansing of inner being. Oh.

You know, they drink it. I'll say it. Still till today. Till today, they drink cow's urine and they sell it, thinking that it has great nutritional properties, health benefits, and spiritual cleansing.

Well, now that's bound to come as a shocker to my American listeners. But, you know, there's certain tribes in Africa that drink the blood of animals straight from the juggler vein, and it has a ritualistic value for them. You know, God told us in the Old Testament law, He told the Jews, do not. Eat or drink the blood because life is in the blood.

So, what we're talking about here is another pagan heresy, just another belief that is. Absolutely not rooted in truth.

So, I guess I'm saying it should make us so thankful that we have truth. The Word of God is truth. Right, right. Yes. And, um, Now, um tell me a little bit about Christians and the untouchable class in India.

Again, some of our listeners may think that there is no caste system still today in India, is there? Oh, there definitely is. And India is probably the biggest country where a caste system is so well defined. That well, to the world it doesn't seem that way, but to people who live here, it's very clear, and it has gotten so much worse in the past few years.

So, in Hinduism, there is this thing called, or what they follow, this thing called Sanatana Dharmam. I think your listeners can even Google it, and they will show you the different classes or the different caste systems from the high rank to the lowest. And I think the highest is Brahmin. The Brahmins, they are the teachers, the priests, the well-learned, and they are just sacred. They are almost like their gods, and they are just pure and perfect in their eyes.

And then there are the warriors, the warriors who fight for the kingdom and who, you know, like win battles and stuff. Did they also fight in Indian independence? Or were these people? Or are they purported spirit beings? Unknown.

These are people. These are people. Yes. And then there's the merchants. You know, and so on.

So, these people are the business people and everything. But the last ones are the Dalits, which are the untouchable class.

So, the untouchable class are just human beings, just like everybody, and they have red blood, and you know, just they're just like everybody, but because of the color of their skin, especially in South South India, if you compare North India and South India, South India has darker skin.

Okay, so we're talking about a skin appearance issue, yes, really a racial issue almost, right? Yes, yeah, and this is this is how it how they segregate.

So, they just push you to the south, saying that, hey, you know what? You guys are not like us, and actually, the Brahmins is a mix of Greek and Persian. North Indians. Lighter skinned people. Lighter skin.

So they just classified themselves as the superior class, and the South Indian people, the darker skinned people, as the Dalits. And they used to use these people to wash their bathrooms, to clean their roads, and to clean their shoes because they don't want to do the dirty work. To work the rice fields, the rice fields. Yeah, that's why in India they call Christians rice bag Christians. Oh, rice bag Christians because, you know, like we're associated with that.

So that's a pejorative. That's a term of insult. Yes. Yeah, they do that.

So Christianity is a minority. Like we talked about before, a micro-minority. Yes, I think that's the accurate term. Micro-minority. Micro-minority.

And just to give those figures now, you mentioned this later, hole right there where you are. 80% of the population is Hindus. About 17% is Muslim. Muslim, and then about one to one and a half percent are considered Christian, including Roman Catholic.

So, indeed, you're a micro-minority. Absolutely, correct? Yeah, we're the micro-minority. And so, like, they see you as an untouchable. If you're a Christian, you're an untouchable, no matter what class you are in.

You directly fall into Dalit, the lower caste or lower grade, lower class of people. If you're automatically a Christian, you fall into that lower caste or lower class people. And you know, right while you're saying this, I'm thinking about what Jesus said in Matthew 5:11 through 13. Blessed are you when men shall persecute you and shall. Reproach you and say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake.

So, you know, they are issuing a pejorative, they are denouncing you, they are belittling you, but they're honoring you. And they don't know it, do they? They don't know it. They're honoring you because you are so-called for Jesus' sake. And what a wonderful thing it is.

You know, the word Christian, which means Christ loyalist, when it was used by the Roman world, was a pejorative. And so they mocked the Christians because they were followers of a strange Jewish rabbi. And the stories were so odd and strange. And the Christians were, they saw them in the Roman world as being anti-patriotic. They didn't support the Roman gods.

They saw them as being not only anti-patriotic, but they saw them also as being atheistic. They did not. Believe in the Roman gods, and again, anti-patriotic because they didn't worship the divine Caesar. They didn't go to the athletic games like the other Romans did. And then they called them, of all things, incestuous because they met in the early morning, they called each other brothers and sisters, and they kissed each other on the cheek.

So they were, and then they called them cannibals because they supposedly ate the flesh and drank the blood of their master.

So think about all that crazy range of complete misunderstanding. And that's how Christianity began.

So I would say this is really a badge of honor that they would call you this year. This month, for a gift of any amount, we're offering Philippian Notes, Dr. Hinnant's commentary on Philippians. Easy to understand, insightful, biblically precise, and spiritually rich, and will prove very helpful to ministers, teachers, and any hungry believer. It could change your life.

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Now, again, Dr. Hinnant. Yes. Yes, Pastor.

So the reason they put you in that category is because when the missionaries came, they. It was the poor people of India that accepted them. And it was to the poor the gospel was first shared. Yes. Or primarily.

Because Jesus did, yes. Right. So because of that, all the poor people. Found Jesus because they were in desperate need and brokenness.

So he was. They could, you know, accept him, but the people who were well off or comfortable, it was harder for them to accept him, accept the Lord, because why do we need another God? You know, we already have so many gods. Why would we want an American God or a British God? Yes, yeah.

So that's the reason they put you in that category. Yes, so this is really interesting that. That these Patterns of spiritual behavior resurface every few generations. They resurface every few generations. They resurface every few centuries because the spiritual world never changes.

It always is the same. And let me ask you this too now. In India, we've covered most of the points we wanted to discuss thus far. What about your grandmother's testimony? You told me about your grandmother.

She's quite an interesting lady. I met her. And the testimony was very, very impressive. Yes. So my grandmother was the tenth child of her parents.

So by the time she was born, her parents were almost like her grandparents. You know, so she was brought up in a very comfortable, very loving, and spoiled way, in a good way. But she was her dad's favorite. And before that She had two other sisters. um somewhere in from one to nine.

And um so like those two sisters got married and became Christians.

So her father, who was a very strong Hindu, He did not like that at all. Oh, I bet.

So he would brainwash this little girl, my grandmother, every evening. He would make her sit and he would read her the Hindu spiritual books and brainwash her basically and tell her, Please never become like your sisters. Oh, yes. Don't leave the Hindu religion. Don't become Christian.

Yes. You know, so that's how she lived all her life until one day, you know, she was on her deathbed. She, you know, at the time, hospitals were not. Very common. If you want to go to a hospital, you have to travel very far.

And the means of communication, the transportation, this was very hard.

So for her, she really nobody knew what the problem was with her. She became so sick because she encountered. Death. Um somebody died right in front of her eyes.

Somebody close to her died right in front of her eyes.

So from that moment on, she became sick. Oh. So she had what she says is she had the fear of death. Yes. It possessed her like Like a demon.

Yes. And so from that time on, she was unable to eat.

So she stopped eating, she stopped drinking water. Yes. She couldn't. And fear of any kind that's sudden in its onset can have that physiological effect on you. Psychosomatic.

Yes. So. Eventually, she had super long Indian hair. I don't know if you're familiar, but like in the past, you can see like really thick long hair. She used to have that, and all her hair fell off.

And she had only like bits and pieces which they had to shave off because it was just like one here and one there. And they had to like shave her head off because they couldn't let her be that way. And they wouldn't even let her come into the house because she was so close to death.

So in Hinduism, you cannot die in the house. It's bad luck or it's not good or anything.

So they put her out in the veranda. Veranda is like a balcony or like an outer coat around the house.

So they put a bed for her there.

So she can't even come inside the house. She can't go into the kitchen. She can't go into her bedroom and anything.

So they put her in the veranda. They put a cot for her and they told her, okay, she's gonna die anytime now.

So just let her die.

So they gave up all hope. But she, being a very spiritual person and pursuing Hinduism and being brainwashed as she was, she was just crying out to whoever she can think of. She's crying out to different gods: hey, I worshipped you. Hey, I did this puja, which is a prayer act, a ritual. I did this and this and this and this.

And I lived a good life. Why aren't you helping me? Because somebody come. She was baffled. Yes, somebody come.

She had done all the good works that her faith told her she should do, and yet she was not receiving any help from her gods. Right. So she just lost all hope. I mean. I don't know how many of us can be in that position where we lose All hope and just give up completely.

And you know, before you go further with this, I'm just reminded that all the gods except the Christian God. Have no compassion for their supporters and worshipers. They are whimsical. They represent the bad range of human emotions, and they have no compassion. And this is what made Jesus stand out the way He did in the Greco-Roman world.

And because the other gods didn't care about their worshipers, the worshipers appeased the God to keep the wrath of God from coming upon them. And Jesus was totally different because He revealed the true nature of God, the love of God, the compassion of God. And that's what drew the people. That's what's drawn us all to Him.

So she was bewildered while her God would not help her. Yes, and she was about 14 years at the time, just thinking, you know, okay, this is the end of my life now. I have no future. I have no life. And she was just lying there on the bed.

And what she told me was, she knew she was minutes. away from that. They're just minutes away. She's just gonna close and just give up. And at that time, when she just gave up and she, you know, closed her eyes, she saw.

A bright light. A bright light and a man come. Yeah, I can't help but notice this is exactly what your friend's father said happened to him. A Pauline experience. Seeing Christ like a bright light, which is biblical.

Yes. Okay.

And I think. Um Pastor, you would find this a lot in Hindu and Muslim faiths, especially because we are very sensitive to the spiritual, I would say. Yes, and they do believe in the validity of dreams as a means of divine communication. Whereas Christians, particularly evangelical Christians, may frown upon that because we see the Lagos, the Word of God, as the primary means, which it is. But they might frown on the fact that God would communicate through dreams and visions, although the scriptures soundly establish the fact that He does.

So, as long as it is parallel to the Scripture, you can receive the vision or the dream as it's from the Lord. This is a key point, and I want to remind my listeners to this: that don't ever automatically, arbitrarily, reject a dream, either that you may have had repeatedly. If it seems to speak to the conditions of your life. Or someone else who is sharing the same with you. And don't say, oh, now God doesn't speak through dreams anymore.

He did that back in the Bible times, but not now.

Well, we're still living in Bible times. The latest I've checked on hasn't changed. Yes. And so he's still. Communicates as he sovereignly chooses to.

So, one of those ways, and I think it's fair for us to say, for Western Christians anyway, it's exceptional, is through dreams and visions. But he did say through Joel that he would pour out his spirit then and he will pour it out again in the end days, and he will reveal himself through dreams and visions. Old men and young men. Yes. And so she had this vision.

So she had this vision, and a man came to her and he spoke to her, and he said, I am Jesus. You know, and I will heal you and you will do my work. You know, he spoke to her, and I am Jesus. Yes, I'm going to heal you, and you're going to do my work.

Well, that certainly proved to be true over the ensuing years. Yes, without divulging her identity and what part of India she lives in, and etc.

So when she had the dream. For the first time she opened her eyes and called her mom, And she didn't say anything about the dream, she didn't say anything about what Because she just the moment she had the dream, everything changed for her.

Okay, happy. Everything changed for her. Suddenly she had life come back inside her. Yes, she had hope come inside her. She had life come inside her.

She called her mom and she said, for the first time in weeks, Mom, I'm hungry. Oh, how about that? Yeah.

Wow. She said, Mom, I'm hungry. And then they knew, okay, there is hope. She's going to live. Yes.

And slowly she recovered. Yeah.

Slowly she recovered and she got better and she had so many, so many things that she had to go through because it was, you know, living in her house was basically like living in a Hindu temple. Yes. You know?

So it was very hard, but the Lord brought her through. And as you know, like she's still working for the Lord. She's still completely in awe of the Lord. She is something. She just beams.

I remember hearing her pray and observing her and chatting with her. And she's just full of life. And you know, this should give hope to people. in India. who may be hearing this That God is a God who bends over backwards to reveal Himself.

You know, He came in the person of His Son. And strictly speaking, He did not have to do that, but He did. And he's a God who wants to be known. He wants to reveal himself to us. And again, in sharp contradistinction to the other purported deities who don't care.

We would say in North Carolina, they don't give a hoot about us. You know, they just don't care. And but Jesus is so compassionate and loving, and He will do whatever it takes. And if you've got a loved one right now and you're listening to us, whether they live in America or in India or in some other land, if you're praying for them, Believe God will send His word to them, send a servant to them, and if need be, send a dream or a vision to them because He wants to save. He's not indifferent.

We know the text, if you want to quote it, you know the text there: God is not. Unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love. And also the text where it said, God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. And so I think in these last days, you know that I'm teaching a lot on the end times, so we've talked about that. He's going to.

Do everything possible to save as many people the world over. It's not just about pouring out the wrath of God. He's going to do everything he can to make himself known, just like you described what he did for your grandmother. It was a personal encounter for her. It was a personal encounter.

He's a personal God. You know, I don't know a deity at all. I know a personal Savior. You do. We all do.

Yes. And if you're listening to me, if you're serving a deity, I'm sorry for you. Write into our ministry. We'll pray for you. Yes.

Because you need to know a personal God. Yeshua, how may she act? Jesus. the Jewish Messiah, we serve the God of Israel.

So, I hope you've enjoyed this discussion today with my Indian friends. I think it's quite rich what they've shared with us, and please make this. A matter for prayer, a matter for giving. The matter to ask God what He would have you do to help the precious people of India. Thanks for joining us.

Our next episode discusses the content of my new course, Old Testament End Times Prophecy. We'll discuss supersessionism, the day of the Lord, biblical types and shadows, the Old Testament's description of Armageddon, and see the beautiful agreement between Old and New Testament End Times Prophecy. Be sure to join us. If this message has blessed you, tell your friends and please consider helping us stay on the air by sending your tax-deductible donation to Greg Hennett Ministries. Also, remember, you may download the Until He Comes podcast from your preferred podcast app.

May you walk closely with Christ and trust and obey Him in your daily tests of faith and patience until He Comes. That's it. This is the Truth Network. Mm-hmm.