The Loneliness of the Remnant Believer

If you are feeling alone, out of place, and isolated, you may feel like the biblical Noah, and you may be a part of the remnant. I'm convinced that if a pastor will listen to the young generation right now, those who are between the ages of fifteen and thirty-five, if they will listen to them, what they want to know is, how do I sort through the political things of my day, or definitely the cultural things?

And they want to know what in the world is going on, which brings in eschatology. And if a pastor is willing to reach that generation of people because they are out there, I'm convinced that they'll have a remarkable work within their own church. This is Understanding the Times Radio with Jan Markell. Today, Jan begins a two-part series with two pastors who are not afraid to be honest about the condition of the church, Pastor Tom Hughes from 412 Church in California, and Pastor Mark Henry from Revived Church in Brooklyn Park, Minnesota, are Jan's two guests for this series. This hour, Jan and her panel of pastors will be examining the remnant church and the reasons why a remnant church even exists. To begin today's conversation, here is Jan Markell.

And welcome to the program. I'd say I'm going to be talking church-related issues this hour with two pastors. I've gotten to know Pastor Tom Hughes through his prophecy updates online, his books, and more.

We'll talk about one of his books perhaps a little bit later. He's pastor of the 412 Church, a Calvary Chapel Church in San Jacinto, California. And joining me in studio is Pastor Mark Henry from Revived Church in Brooklyn Park, Minnesota, Twin Cities suburb.

Some of you know that church as Brooklyn Park Eve Free. And they will join me in just, well, just a little bit later after I sort of set the stage to the topic of a remnant church and remnant believers. Now, let me just say this first that I recently wrote an e-newsletter and I titled it, well, it's about remnant believers.

And I'm just going to kind of review what I wrote. This went out to some 60, 70,000 people who sign up for our e-newsletter, which you can do at OliveTreeViews.org. And I asked in this article if readers had ever heard of the word remnant. And some people are called remnant believers. There are remnant churches. And perhaps you know of some who attend one of those remnant churches. And I often say I do radio for the remnant. So I began to pay more attention to this term when I got a couple of emails.

Let me read just a couple of lines from a few emails. And Benjamin wrote, he said, Jan, I feel the remnant is getting smaller every day. As the time approaches for the Lord's return, the world seems to be getting darker and more evil. I know I'm not alone as a member of the body of Christ, but at times I feel so isolated. Then I got another email from Patrice and she wrote, I just read your newsletter and I want to thank you for your article on the remnant church. She says, you hit the nail on the head and everything you write about that church I am experiencing. She says, I feel so alone and no one wants to discuss events of the day and certainly not Bible prophecy or eschatology.

If I mention these things, they shutter. She goes on, my husband and I are visiting churches and have not found one that addresses these issues. Some in these churches have gotten angry and asked that I not come back. I feel like crying when I leave. I try to sit there, but I wonder why they never talk about what's going on, what's happening in Israel or the intensifying birth pangs.

Then I got another email from Carolyn. My church has no excitement about prophetic fulfillment applicable for today. When I bring up what I learn on your broadcast, Jan, I am put down. I am so lonely for like-minded believers. Okay, so based on a lot of interactions, including some people at my annual conference, I came up with kind of what is a remnant church and I want to just give eight bullet points and then I'm going to read a couple of more emails and then I want to bring on my pastors who are my guests for the rest of the programming. A remnant church is made up of people longing for a solid church and a pulpit that will address issues of the day as well as the nearness of the Lord's return. A remnant believer wants a church that will not fear offending with the truth and that certainly will confront apostasy. Now, here's point number two of what is a remnant believer or church. Remnant believers have offended friends and family simply by telling them the truth of our times or for sharing information that is relevant to our times.

This will often bring on mocking and scoffing. At the least, it results in irritated indifference and this doesn't daunt a remnant believer and such a tragic response does not keep them quiet. Number three, enthusiastic remnant believers will travel across town or across country to attend events that present information about which the church is silent. Number four, remnant believers often feel isolated, misunderstood even though they have the truth and the naysayers quite frankly are clueless. Number five, members of the remnant church see our times darkening but remain enthusiastic that this is but a herald of his coming not signs of doom and gloom. Number six, when a remnant believer finds someone who is of kindred spirit, frankly it is like discovering a gold mine. Number seven, such believers often had a very solid church but in many cases it went haywire, a little leaven came in, it ruined the whole loaf, then they begin a long journey of searching for a new church which may take years, in some cases decades. And lastly, very often these believers approach their church leadership to talk to them about these things but they are usually shut out.

So some who are hearing this find themselves among the above mentioned bullet points and you also identified with the three emails that I read. Now let me just say a few more words because I'm trying to paint the picture here to set the stage before I bring some guests on. I've got to thinking about people who make quilts. Some of you know such folks and they use a wide variety of mismatched remnants and such professionals discard sections of fabric from garments that were no longer usable but they were then sewn into an unbelievably elegant quilt.

The tossed aside remnant became an object of creativity and beauty. So I want to say this, if you are a remnant believer please take heart and remember that you too are a creative and colorful quilt. An eternity may reveal that you broke through to more people than you ever thought you did. Remember that such mocking and scoffing are fulfilling some end time prophecies as well and we are living in the most significant time in history and the most prophecy fulfilling days and yet we are in the days with the least amount of interest in taking a lot of serious issues, quite frankly, seriously. People are perishing for a lack of knowledge and who will tell them if you don't? I hear what I'm going to do here before I bring in my two guest pastors. I want to read just a few more emails and I think some of you will identify with, for instance, Christina out of Washington State and she says, going back to this item I wrote on the Remnant Church, this latest email, this latest newsletter you sent out Jan, has put words to my vague sense of loneliness and isolation. It seems like increasingly huge parts of scripture are being ignored.

Just last Sunday it was announced that Wednesday night expositional teaching would be replaced by topical quote in order to be more relevant close quote. There have been no more prophecy updates and she just goes on to say all I can say is I appreciate people like you. I've discovered J.D.

Farag and others and you have become my church. I've heard from, oh, I heard from so many people. I couldn't possibly read all the emails. Another writes, thank you for your article my husband and I have been experiencing. All you and your email have described. We have been scrutinized and our eldest son even attended the morning sessions of your 2016 conference with me to see what we were being taught then derided us for any mention of world events or Bible prophecy.

Those are all negative and he has shunned us and cut us off even over who we voted for. Another one writes after 24 years in the same church I am wandering from church to church trying to find this needed balance but I direct everyone that has a brain to tune into your program and follow your daily news. Thank you for everything. Not sure where I would be without you because I am so alone. Sandy writes, oh, how I needed this today. Thank you, Jan. I thought I was all alone.

Another one writes, as for all the emails you got about how alone people feel, wow, do I know that feeling so well. Pam in Pennsylvania. Okay, that sets the stage for a discussion I'm going to have and I want to bring on the line from California, Pastor Tom Hughes, 412 Church, San Jacinto, California. Tom, welcome. Great to be here, Jan. And Pastor Mark Henry, Revived Church, Brooklyn Park, Minnesota. He's in studio with me, Pastor Mark.

Jan, it's great to be with you again. Okay, where do we begin? Some questions to you two gentlemen.

I want to start firing and let's get some answers from you. You heard what I, anything I read there, talked about, anything in the email, I've got more emails, I will read. Any of that surprise you, Pastor Mark?

You know, none of it surprises me. In fact, I lead pastors conferences on a fairly regular basis and I find a lot of pastors are pretty lonely too, Jan. Are they really? Yeah, because you know, you go, you go to a seminary and quite honestly, the seminary doesn't have classes anymore in systematic theology. They don't talk about eschatology.

They're not dispensational. They're having, you know, that the reading that is typically taking place anymore, it's less and less Bible and more and more spiritual formation from all sorts of different avenues. Okay, interesting.

Pastor Tom Hughes, someone wrote in the list of emails I have, and I probably get to it eventually, if one of them wrote and said that it has taken her 42 years and two countries to find a church, but she finally has. Does that surprise you? That doesn't totally surprise me. It saddens me, but doesn't totally surprise me. You know, 42 years is a really long time and I like Mark, you know, it's not just pastors conferences that meet other pastors in the field this way, but when I go to other conferences, speak especially at prophecy conferences, for example, there are always people that come up to me as you and the other people you speak with, Jan, there's always people that come up to me, they say their church is online, they watch me online, they watch you, whoever it may be, and that has become their church. So it doesn't, it's been that way for years. 42 years is a really long time though. It's really sad. Well, the person who wrote me was very serious.

She was not being dramatic. She just said it literally took 42 years and two countries, but she finally has found a solid church. Pastor Mark Henry, pastors have to preach the whole council.

We all know that. Every topic imaginable from marriage to finance to you name it. But there are some issues that just won't be addressed these days. You've already suggested one, eschatology. I suggested one politics. I suggested another cultural issues, same sex marriage, et cetera. And if one or more of these are of particular interest to somebody, should a person leave a church over a single issue that may not be being preached from the pulpit?

You know, Jan, I always pull people back. There's five core Christian views that you got to have. And when you're looking at any church, what is their view of the scripture? What's their view of Christ? Is he fully God?

In other words, it's Bible authoritative. Is Jesus fully God? Did he become flesh? The Virgin birth. Then you have substitutionary death, bodily resurrection, crucifixion of Christ and justification by faith and everything builds from there. And so when I'm, when I'm talking to a pastor, I actually walk through those things because there's lots of pastors who don't believe in those five core things. So when you start to jump to these other elements of theology, it comes back to my view of scripture. If I don't have a very high view of scripture when it comes to eschatology, it's going to come out or social issues. But here's another problem I'm seeing with pastors and Tom, I know you see it as well, is that younger pastors have not seen older pastors address current issues.

And quite honestly, they're floundering. How do I say, you know, these issues about homosexuality or bestiality or whatever? How do I do this and honor God and walk through it and not just get, you know, just blown away or get sued or all these sorts of things. And I think there's a certain sense of courage. I think they have to understand the Bible, but also just be mindful.

A lot of pastors are reading ancient literature and quite honestly, common politics aren't in ancient literature. And so trying to fuse that in, that's why Tom is so important and other guys like Tom setting a pace and an example for younger pastors in our generation. It's really important to have that. Tom, you want to weigh into that? I agree with Mark on those five essentials. In fact, I was on a panel not too long ago with another pretty well known Bible teacher who does teach Bible prophecy.

He'll even deal with the cultural issues and the whole bit. But in that we were asked a question and it's, should I leave my church if they're not teaching Bible prophecy? And so we stuck to the core, the core elements.

And the problem is that a lot of churches don't have Bible prophecy because, as Mark mentioned, as the model, but the pastor doesn't really understand it because the seminaries aren't teaching it. And so the primary thing is you're sticking with Christ crucified, died, risen again. This is where your salvation is and everything goes from there. However, at the same time, I have found this, Jan, there's a lot of young men and young women that want to know, how do I relate to the world I live in? Because things seem really messed up.

And Mark's absolutely right, they're not giving it. Primarily, they're not getting a lot of the older churches, believe it or not, because they haven't been modeled for them. But there's a lot of young people that are really hungry. Unfortunately, there's young people coming out of seminaries that aren't teaching it. And I'm convinced that if a pastor will listen to the young generation right now, those who are between the ages of 15 and 35, if they will listen to them, what they want to know is, how do I sort through the political things of my day, or definitely the cultural things? And they want to know what in the world is going on, which brings in eschatology. And if a pastor's willing to reach that generation of people because they are out there, I'm convinced that they'll have a remarkable work within their own church. I mean, they don't have to bring up Bible prophecy every single Sunday, like I do. But they'll learn to work it in if the pastor's willing to listen to what unchurched people and even young church people are looking for because they feel like they're missing. They know something is missing. Well, and I want to be clear that eschatology is not really the focus of where it's very important.

And it's not the focus of this hour. However, having said that, when I sent this e-newsletter out, this would have been a couple months ago now, the replies indicated, you know, a lot of things are missing in my church, or maybe just a few things are missing in my church. But the thing that they wanted to emphasize, Tom was, but the thing that is closest to my heart that is missing is Bible prophecy, even though that wasn't the emphasis of anything. That's what came back to me.

Lots of things might be missing. And maybe the youth group isn't the hottest, or maybe this isn't the hottest, but the thing that's closest to my heart that the King is coming will not ever, ever, ever, ever be addressed. And then they would say, I've gone from church to church to church, as you gentlemen have heard.

Here's another email. Your article today about feeling so alone and being unable to find a truth teaching church hit me right between the eyes. And as that's been my situation for several years, I'm in the so-called Bible Belt, yet can't even find a truth teaching church. And that's another word that kept coming through, gentlemen, is truth, truth teaching. And other Christians think I'm out of my mind as I believe what you believe. It gets lonely being a remnant believer. My dream for years now has been to attend one of your conferences.

As I sat here at my computer reading your email today, I had a thought that up to now I never had before. I know the chances are nearly impossible unless God puts it together. Jan, do you know of anybody who could? And then she goes on to say she lives in Northwest Arkansas, would love to come to the 2018 conference. Anybody in the neighborhood stop and pick her up. It would absolutely make her day so she could be part of the remnant, remnant believers.

That would be coming up September 29th, this fall. If you're near Northwest Arkansas, would you write me, folks, and I'll put you in touch with this person who just says she's so lonely and is trying to find a truth teaching church. She's in the Bible Belt, Northwest Arkansas. Okay, folks, I'm going to come back in just a couple of minutes.

We're going to continue our discussion. And I've got in studio with me, Pastor Mark Henry from Revived Church in Brooklyn Park. That is a suburb of Minneapolis, Brooklyn Park, Minnesota.

And that's formerly Brooklyn Park Eve Free. And Pastor Tom Hughes, part of the Calvary Chapel stream, San Jacinto, California. Tom has a new book out. We're going to get to that eventually, even if we have to do two programs. We'll see here how our time plays out.

Book on America, which I think you'd all find quite interesting. So I'm coming back in just a couple of minutes. Don't go away. Jan's two Understanding the Times radio guests today are with her for a two-week series. If you're thinking of getting a recording of today's discussion, you may want to wait until next weekend to order both programs.

To receive copies of one or both parts of this current series, you must phone 763-559-4444. Don't forget to circle September 29 on your calendar. Save that date for our next fall conference.

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Watch our website and newsletters for details. Studying Bible prophecy would be one of the greatest things that a church could do to its congregants, because one, it gives them the hope of Christ's soon coming. Secondly, it motivates them to get the job done.

That is, to get out there and tell their friends and their family and their co-workers that Jesus Christ has come in. And then thirdly, it brings people great, great confidence. Confidence in knowing that God's Word never fails. It will never fail, because what God has said in the past has been confirmed by his prophetic fulfillment.

Study Bible prophecy and get excited about the future. I wrote an e-newsletter a couple of months ago now on the Remnant Church, on Remnant believers, what are they, and had so much response from Remnant believers who feel so alone, feel isolated, cannot find a church, and I don't think any of them are looking for perfection, but they just have visited church after church, and they seem to be marginalized, these kinds of Remnant believers. The reasons why pastors won't teach on Bible prophecy or eschatology, there's a lot of different reasons that are typical. One of them is that they don't know it very well, so they avoid it, which is sad.

Another one is, I think this is the biggest one, they are afraid that they're going to lose their audience or frighten them too much, and people won't be tithing anymore. You're enjoying a two-part series on today's Understanding the Times broadcast. Let's return now to Jan Markell's conversation with pastors Tom Hughes and Mark Henry. And welcome back. Remember, this program is posted to my website every Saturday morning, OliveTreeViews.org, OliveTreeViews.org, or you can go to OnePlace.com, you can sign up for their mobile app.

Program will be downloaded every Saturday to the app or at OnePlace.com. Now let me reset the stage by saying that I wrote an e-newsletter a couple of months ago now on the Remnant Church, on Remnant believers, what are they, and had so much response from Remnant believers who feel so alone, feel isolated, cannot find a church, and I don't think any of them are looking for perfection, but they just have visited church after church, and they seem to be marginalized, these kinds of Remnant believers. So I'm doing a program on it with two pastors.

One is Pastor Tom Hughes, 412 Church San Jacinto, California, that's a Calvary Chapel, and locally, Pastor Mark Henry, Revived Church, Brooklyn Park, Minnesota, formerly Brooklyn Park E-Free. Just change the name and change the pastor because Pastor Mark Henry, you're kind of new. Yeah, we're new to the area. We're excited. God's blessing the church and he's reviving hearts and we're just excited about that. And you're doing a prophecy conference next weekend. I wanted to say a few words about that. That's Saturday, Sunday, March 24th, 25th, Brooklyn Park E-Free, now called Revived Church, Brooklyn Park.

Talk to me just a little about it. Yeah, Jen, we're excited about that because we're just teaching the Bible, right? The Bible is all about the Lord Jesus Christ from beginning to end. And quite honestly, the end is he wins and he's coming in glory, power, and majesty. So the prophecy conference is March 24th, 25th. Saturday is going to be 9 a.m., doors will open, there's no cost, there will be a free will offering, goes to 4 p.m., and then Sunday we'll have three services as usual and I'll be speaking during all three of those services about the rapture of the church. We've got you coming and speaking. Tom Hughes is coming out from California to speak and the three of us are going to have a great time studying the scriptures and encouraging God's people.

And you've got CDs and DVDs about a month later, I think? Yeah, that's our plan. We're going to go ahead and get everything videoed and we'll try and get those out to folks as they like. Okay folks, that's next weekend at the Revived Church. What's the address, Mark? It's 7849 West Broadway, Brooklyn Park, Minnesota. And that's 9 to 4 on Saturday, and your Sunday services are?

9, 10, and 11. Tom Hughes and I speak Saturday morning and Saturday afternoon, and I think you are the celebrity on Sunday, right? I get to cover Sunday and get to MC and enjoy the time with you and Tom on Saturday. Okay, well folks, come on out. I'll have a table there, we'll have some products. Tom will as well. And looking forward to it, and lunch will be on your own, folks.

There are lots of area restaurants there. Okay, let's go back. Pastor Mark Henry, we were talking a little bit during the break about the five points, and you wanted to elaborate on something you said concerning those. Yeah, once someone can establish the five core things of Christianity, the authority of Scripture and the person and work of Jesus Christ, the reality is if you're going to teach the Bible, eschatology is the Bible. It's about Jesus winning. He's the Savior of our souls. He's the Promised One in Genesis chapter 3. He's the coming Savior, and He's the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And so, you know, I try and share with pastors all the time, you've got to teach the whole counsel of Scripture. You say you believe that every 20 verses or so in the New Testament, come back to the second coming of Christ in some way.

And we just need to open our eyes and teach the Bible again. Tom Hughes, you wrote an article about this. This is at least a year ago now. And I don't have it in front of me, but I did an e-blast, an e-newsletter on your article because it was so profound. Can you summarize that?

You know what? I haven't read it in a while, but I remember it. It was a couple years back.

It got published in various places. But it was about the reasons why pastors won't teach on Bible prophecy or eschatology. And there's a lot of different reasons that are typical. One of them is that they don't know it very well, so they avoid it, which is sad. Another one is, I think this is the biggest one, they are afraid that they're going to lose their audience or frighten them too much and people won't be tithing anymore because they're just going to go elsewhere. We live in a culture that, in America, where the messages that are taught in a lot of the pulpits now are really, Jim, they're about having your best life now. And they're not looking into eternity. But we should be looking into eternity. I have found the opposite, like J.D.

Frogg does. I teach Bible prophecy every Sunday night, and I give people the hope of looking forward to Christ coming again. But pastors are afraid to do it, I think, and they're going to have empty pews, they think things like that. But I am also convinced of this, Jim, if a church would be willing, a pastor would be willing to teach on these things, God will bring those remnant believers, He'll bring them to that church, because they're the type who are looking for that. He'll draw them. That's right.

And so that's my story, and we press forward. And Mark is absolutely right. I think it's Joel Rosenberg who said there's eight times as many prophecies of the second coming of Christ as His first coming. And yet so many churches, and a lot of them are solid in other parts of theology, but they completely avoid eschatology. And they'll just say, well, it's just symbolic, or they'll try to spiritualize a passage, and you have to eliminate entire books of the Bible when you start doing that. If you can preach Christ, you're going to, correctly, it's His first coming and His second coming, and who the person of Jesus Christ is, which is the book of Revelation, it's the revelation of Jesus Christ. Let me read just another couple of emails here after she read my e-newsletter.

Again, this is many weeks ago now. How heartening to see that I am not weird nor alone in my yearning for a real church. This is Julia. Not that I want to see anyone else that way, but it does speak to the culture of today and why I feel so alone. And I know I'm not because of his words, but it is a temptation to think that I am standing by myself. Thank you so much for this article and for the encouragement that it brings. I think about our persecuted brothers and sisters and think they must feel terribly alone too.

Somebody else writes, thank you for this e-newsletter. Yes, this is so very true, even in my little world in South Africa. I haven't attended church for three years, for none of the churches in my town speak the truth. Eschatology is a no-go for three quarters of these churches.

Let me ask you, gentlemen, a question. There's a verse, obviously, that I think all of us are familiar with, found in Hebrews 10, 25, talks about not forsaking the assembling of yourselves together. Pastor Mark, does that assembling of yourselves have to be a church? You know, as I've looked at that passage over the years, I think that's the natural reading of it. I mean, if you read on in the following verses, the following chapters, it talks about elders and submitting to them and following their example and them being a gift that God has given to them. So I think that really is the overall context.

But, you know, God gives us individuals. If you remember, Elijah felt all alone. He was the one who said, got them all alone. He's in the cave. Jezebel's trying to kill him.

She's tried to kill off all the prophets. And two things happen. One, he says, Elijah, there's 7,000 who haven't bowed the knee to Baal.

That's huge. But then he does something else. And he says, now go anoint Elijah.

He gives them one friend. And you know, God gives us graciously friends along the way to encourage our souls. And sometimes that's through radio, sometimes through tape.

I pastored in a very remote place and guys would send me tapes and I would listen to those back before before we had all the technology we have today. What a blessing it was. And I find that still to be a blessing today. Tom, what is your thought on Hebrews 10, 25?

Yeah, great passage. I've always looked at that in the sense of church. However, a church is where two or more gathered together in the name of Christ.

So you're going to have those places. I think it's in the book of Acts where you have the ladies who are meeting for church service, the small group, and you have these various small groups in the New Testament. So in verse 25, it's encouraging one another and all the mores you see the day approaching. And so you've got to find at least someone to meet with. The other thing is when we look at the church and what they were supposed to do when they gathered, it was to worship together. It does involve corporate worship and corporate learning of the word. So it might be two or three people together, but you really need to be in fellowship.

There's got to be somebody out there in your area. We often hear stories of the missionary that's in the most remote part of the world or the person that's in the most remote part of the world that's praying to know this God that has been revealed to them through the creation. And God sends them a missionary. And I believe that with the remnant believers, they might be thinking, I'm all alone like Elijah did, but earnestly praying, Lord, send me just one person. And I think maybe a lot of times it's send me a church, which would be great, but sometimes it begins with that one person having that longing. And then it's two, and then it's three, and next thing you know, they start having a legitimate church service. Might be 10 people, might be 20 people, but you don't want to forsake the encouragement and the worship together as much as possible, even if it's just a couple other people. Jan, as you look at that passage, definitely the churches in the New Testament were pretty small. And as you even read the verse before about them assembling together, it talks about stimulating one another into love and good works. And so the importance of the body of Christ, the importance of a local church. But here's the thing, every generation finds churches, churches have a lifespan, 80-year lifespan, and they move naturally to randomness and chaos and destruction. Everything in our world does that. Our bodies are getting old and wearing out.

Everything's like that. And so God raises up a new generation of people to start new churches and so forth. And that's the reason I started a couple of churches in Colorado. The town that I started the church in, in order to go to a really good Bible believing church, a healthy thriving church, you'd have to drive 125 miles to the east, or you had to drive 45 miles to the west. And you know, we started a great church there, and then we started another church about an hour away and another church down the road.

And God raises up a new generation. So if there's people listening, you know, one of the things you might want to think about is contacting Tom's church, there's a there's a 412 Association. And one of the things that we're doing is helping start new churches that are vibrant and helping also churches turn around. Recently, I had a gentleman contact me and his church had been in decline. And they're looking for a pastor. And it's, you know, we need someone's going to teach the Bible again, and all of the Bible, including the book of Revelation, so forth, and the Olivet Discourse, they're just trying to revitalize their ministry again. That's a healthy thing.

It's a good thing. Pastor Tom Hughes, you have done prophecy updates online for quite some time. I was I was privileged to be your TV guest here not too long ago. And you've just kind of renamed your website.

Give it please, would you? It's HopeForOurTimes.com. It was called End Times TV. Yeah, End Times TV. Now it's HopeForOurTimes.com.

Go ahead. Now it's Hope For Our Times, yeah. I scare too many people with End Times TV. But it is hope. We need hope. And that's what we're finding.

You know what else is kind of interesting, Jan? Mark talked about the churches. We now have five churches that are part of the 412 Association. And my purpose in that was to help pastors strengthen them, but to also teach premillennial doctrine. And so it's great.

I look at this and I see there's a huge void. And that comes back to, I mean, I do encourage all the pastors to teach on the cultural issues, deal with what we have before us, but eschatology. And I don't expect them to be as far along as I am at this point, but to be premillennial in your doctrine, and to not avoid the books of Revelation and so forth. So it's, you know, maybe there's more churches like JD inspires a lot.

Yeah, he does. Well, the 412, that's Calvary Chapel's stream of churches, correct? We are four of them in our association are Calvary Chapel's.

One of them is not. Okay. And 412 stands for, why don't you explain what that stands for? Acts 412, Hebrews 412, and Ephesians 412. Acts is when disciples send. Acts 412, there's no other name under heaven by which you can be saved. Hebrews 412, the word of God is sharper than a two-edged sword.

And Ephesians 412 is the word of God for the equipping of saints and the work of ministry. Okay. And, but folks can get regular weekly prophecy updates at HopeForOurTimes.com. HopeForOurTimes.com.

HopeForOurTimes.com also on our YouTube site, same name on YouTube, Hope For Our Times, his channel too. Okay. Pastor Mark, you said to me, and I found this interesting, because you talked about examples of remnant believers from different dispensations. First explain what a dispensation is and then give me some, a couple of illustrations.

Yeah. Dispensation is a period of time in which God requires some sort of action from his people. So he gives them some sort of responsibility in regard to sin or righteousness, and then they're supposed to, to obey him in faith and follow him and do it. So, uh, for example, a dispensation of innocence there, when God created Adam and Eve, he put them in a garden, one responsibility to only from the tree of knowledge, good and evil. And then of course they rebel against God.

So in every dispensation, there's a responsibility given by God. And here's what we find in every dispensation, that group of people fails and we are living in the dispensation of the church age. And quite honestly, it's not a surprise to me that the church as a whole is not strong and vibrant because if every dispensation just shows our desperate need for God, and no matter how he blesses his people, there's still this propensity for us to be hard-hearted and different and to drift from him. It's not surprising to me that we're not doing very well as a church, but as you look through each dispensation, there's always this remnant, this group of zealous followers of the living God. So you think about Noah and his family, the dispensation they lived, there was only eight of them, for heaven's sakes, on the whole planet, eight.

And yet they built the ark 120 years. Talk about loneliness. You think their kids went to school and were lonely?

Oh my word, you know. And then afterwards they get off and now there's only eight of them and God says, go and fill the earth and multiply. And you go all the way through the scriptures and you find this lonely group of people seeking God. Just last night I was with a young couple. They were only been married six months.

They're both about 26 years old and they're reaching out to their college friends. One of their friends is getting married and they had dinner with him the other night and they started talking to him about spiritual things and the girlfriend was listening and the boyfriend, their fiance, they invited him to church and he just started laughing in their face. And they were suffering for Jesus since the last night. I just thank them. Thank you for suffering for Jesus. Thank you for pointing them to Christ, warning them about the consequences of sin and judgment coming and that Jesus is the way, the truth, the life, and there's hope in him. Thank you for suffering for Jesus. They're part of that believing, zealous remnant for Jesus Christ.

Can you give me another illustration of another dispensation? I love the story of Noah. I had a wonderful beloved cat.

He passed away real recently named Noah and I have an Elijah too, by the way. That's who we're talking about. Some of these characters. Another dispensation of law. You think about Moses being sent by God and the giving of the 10 commandments and so forth and you get to Numbers 13. They're about ready to enter the promised land. They've entered into this new dispensation. They said, God, if you'll tell us what to do, we'll do it. And God gave them 650 laws roughly.

They agreed to do it. God gets them to Kadesh Barnea after destroying Egypt, after manna from heaven, after water from rocks. And the spies go in and 10 of them say, no, don't go in. God's not big enough. The giants are too big. And yet there were two of those guys that went in, Caleb and Joshua, and they come back and say, no, no, God's big enough.

Go in. And so you see that again, this believing remnant to the point that if you read there in Numbers 13, they end up picking up rocks and they are going to kill Moses and Aaron and Caleb and Joshua. They were a believing remnant in that day. In fact, so much so that God killed all of that generation.

And then you just continue on through every group, every generation, every dispensation. There's this believing group that's zealous for God. And I would suggest to you, as you look into the New Testament, exactly what we see. In fact, Paul says in Philippians Chapter 3, to write the same thing to you again is not a problem for me, it's a safeguard for you. And he warns them about the dogs, those who are of the false circumcision. And so Paul had gone in and started the church at Philippi.

Now he's in prison. And there's people coming in and distorting the gospel and he's trying to encourage them to follow Christ. And in the last part of Chapter 3, you recall it says there that we're looking for Jesus and eagerly awaiting his return. To learn more, go to Pastor Mark Henry's website, revivebrooklynpark.org, revivebrooklynpark.org. And I ministered at a conference at your church three years ago.

Mark was actually a Brooklyn Parkie free at the time. You weren't there then, but they had an interest in eschatology then and obviously now, thanks to your influence, they have a very serious interest in eschatology. I'm going to wrap up this discussion in just a couple of minutes when I get back. I have a closing segment. It's a short one, but we will, we'll kind of condense our thoughts as we kind of wrap up a discussion on the Remnant Church and Remnant believers.

All sprang from a e-newsletter I wrote a couple of months ago, sent it out to 60, 70,000 people. And boy, did I get response saying, you know what, Jan, I'm one of those believers. I don't know where to go. I am so alone. I feel so isolated. And is there anyone who possibly understands me? Thank you for what you wrote, because now I understand, I believe at least you understand, but there's just legions of people feeling this way. We'll wrap this up in a couple of minutes.

Don't go away. Be sure to join us for Understanding the Times next week as Jan continues her series with Tom Hughes and Mark Henry to discuss the judgment of God. Have you visited our website lately?

It's been redesigned. That should make your navigation around the site even easier at OliveTreeViews.org. You'll find more information about our fall conference. At OliveTreeViews.org you can also sign up to receive our e-news blast and our printed newsletter. Check us out at OliveTreeViews.org.

To order digital recordings of our current series, the number to call is 763-559-4444 and address all correspondents to Olive Tree Ministries, Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311. Jan returns shortly. Please stay with us. My thanks to Pastor J.D. Farag and his congregation, Calvary Chapel Kaneohe, Hawaii, for hosting me the first week of March.

I enjoyed the week ministering and vacationing. Catch my three messages given on Pastor J.D. 's YouTube channel. Eighteen years ago, Understanding the Times radio began on one radio station in the Minneapolis area. We now air on almost 830 stations and around the world electronically.

You made that possible. People really do want the inconvenient truth. Radio costs are substantial, so think about a tax-deductible gift to Olive Tree Ministries to keep this message alive. You can give conveniently online at OliveTreeViews.org or by calling us at 763-559-4444, 763-559-4444, or just drop a check to Olive Tree Ministries, Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311.

That's Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311. This is radio for the remnant, but let's help the remnant grow by giving them the truth each week on Understanding the Times Radio. Just a heads up to my Twin Cities and Upper Midwest audience listeners, there's a Prophecy Conference coming up in the Twin Cities at Revived Church Saturday, March 24th. Saturday time will be 9 a.m. to 4 p.m., and the address is 7849 West Broadway in Brooklyn Park, formerly Brooklyn Park Eve Free. Speakers, Pastor Tom Hughes, Pastor Mark Henry, and I'll be one of the speakers as well on Saturday. Call Revived Church for details.

There's no cost. Lunch on your own at area restaurants, free will offering. I speak once in the morning Saturday, once in the afternoon Saturday, again Saturday time 9 a.m. to 4 p.m., March 24th, and on Sunday with Pastor Mark Henry.

The times are 9, 10, and 11 a.m. We'll hope to see you there. The church will provide CDs and DVDs about a month later. Contact Revived Church. If we're looking for a perfect church, what I tell people is remember this. Jesus grew up in Nazareth and went to a little synagogue that probably had less than 50 people. It was a small synagogue, and it wasn't a very, probably not a really dynamic place. And then he went down and worshiped in the temple, and the temple was being run by a bunch of crooks.

We know what the Sadducees were like. They were denying everything, basically, about the Bible, and they're running this thing. Then the Pharisees were there, and it had to break his heart, but yet he was still there.

And that's the reason. I'm still in ministry. I still believe in the church. Remember this.

When we insult the church, we're insulting Jesus's life. Understanding the Times Radio continues here with today's final segment. Once again, Jan Markell. Welcome back. Remember, I offer a print newsletter, an e-newsletter. I've been reading from the e-newsletter today, so sign up online, OliveTreeViews.org, and you can get a CD of any program.

Become a CD subscriber if you'd like. And again, the program posted to my website every Saturday, OliveTreeViews.org. I don't want to give too many websites, but at the same time, I want you to get acquainted with Pastor Tom Hughes and his HopeForOurTimes.com, where you'll find regular prophecy updates, because many of you have written that that's what your heart is longing for, is to better understand that the King is coming and how we can be excited about that, and a lot more about Pastor Mark Henry at ReviveBrooklynPark.com. Pastor Mark has a Prophecy Conference next weekend.

I'll be one of the speakers. Pastor Tom Hughes, that's Saturday, March 24th, 9 a.m. to 4 p.m., Revive Church, Brooklyn Park. Pastor Mark, the address again?

7849 West Broadway, Brooklyn Park, Minnesota. And that's 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. on Saturday. And Sunday, you are speaking, I think, on the Rapture three times, 9, 10, 11 a.m.? That's correct. Are you going to have the same message, 9, 10, 11, so they can pick one of those three?

You can pick one of those three, but my folks will always tell you none of the sermons are the same. Oh, yeah. All right. Freewill offering and lunch will be on your own, folks. Lots of area restaurants. They'll have CDs and DVDs about a month later. And Tom and I will be there. And Pastor Mark, and we're going to be talking about the fact that the King is coming. Larry Cutzler, you raised an issue during the break.

Why didn't you raise it on air? And let's deal with it. I think since the 70s, things have changed so much. And that's when I came up as a Christian in the early 70s. And back then, the pastors really had messages that were more prophetic from the Scriptures, not something that was made up of their own imagination.

People like David Wilkerson. And they really created a certain sense of awe or fear and honor of God, which I don't find in today's pulpits as much. They speak as if God is our friend, but never is someone that we need to fear as a judge. Do you, gentlemen, sense that in your ministries? Do you think there's a change somehow that has happened over the last 20, 30 years?

I do. I think you have the nail on the head, Larry. I think that is probably the biggest problem why certain things aren't addressed is the fear of man is a snare. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. And people in pulpits are afraid of what people are going to say about them. They're afraid to offend. They're afraid that people won't like them.

And they're not concerned about what God thinks. I can assure you, the number one thing that drives me to be in a pulpit is that I fear God. I fear what I'm going to say. I fear that I know I'm going to be accountable to Him. And man, I want to do what's right.

So I'm going to address those things. But Larry, I think you hit the nail on the head. If men would fear God all the way from Washington down through the pulpits, down to our leaders and schools, then we would do the right thing. I think there'd be a great awakening in our country, too.

It does help. I go to a lot of churches around the country when I'm visiting and traveling. And I find that there's a big sea change, like sociologists say, the sea change, a change that goes in a direction that will never return. And everything I hear is all about the wonder of God, which is fine. But I never hear about the sin, the old hymns, like the blood will never lose its power and things like that.

None of those things ever come into play when it comes to worship or even in preaching. Well, if I could just read an email from a pastor's wife. Again, going back to emails that I got as a result of writing about Remnant Church and Remnant believers. She says, I am the pastor's wife at a Remnant church near Ottawa, Canada. We have a wonderful small church whose members understand the times, but we have trouble expanding because people here don't want to hear the truth of our times. I sure wish people who are looking for a Remnant church could find us.

And that's Phyllis and she's near Ottawa, Canada. Okay. The pastor's wife, Larry, whose heart is aching for some of the things that we're talking about. And you were a pastor for a lot of years too.

So did you experience some of this? Oh, absolutely. Our elders and leaders of the church wanted me to not get on topics that were controversial. I mean, I've said this many times and I was told repeatedly, you're here to help build this church.

You're here to bring the nickels and noses into the church. And those kinds of topics that you're talking about is divisive and you drive people away. I was chastised many times. Well, I think you probably talked about some of the cultural issues, perhaps. I did. I talked about homosexuality and I had more people email me and say, I would be embarrassed if I brought my gay friend to church.

So I mean, what do you do with that? Do you think, gentlemen, I want to go back to some of my questions I have here. Do you think that some of these folks that I've heard from, you've heard me read some of their emails and here's another one. My husband and I are definitely remnant believers. Your article describes us and it is encouraging to know we're not alone. We speak the truth. We get blank, strange looks. Even from family who profess to know Christ, they think we are out in left field. And again, echoes the same sentiment. Do you think, Mark, that some of these people are looking for perfection because they will never, ever find it? But I'm going to answer that question.

I don't think they are. You know, Tom and I pastored a long time. I think between the two of us, we got 60 years of experience and we'll both tell you that there are always people coming and they want a church that has everything that just like they want it.

Like, like you just went to a restaurant and you, this has got to be perfect. And we all go to restaurants and we all order different things. But you know, when we come to a church, it's filled with people on a journey seeking Christ. And when I trusted Christ in 1979, I didn't know Jesus as well as I know him today. And so you have all these people at different levels.

And also you have tares with the wheats. You remember that parable that Jesus gave and that is such an important thing. I mean, if we're looking for a perfect church, what I tell people is remember this. Jesus grew up in Nazareth and went to a little synagogue that probably had less than 50 people. It was a small synagogue and it wasn't a very, probably not a really dynamic place. And then he went down and worshiped in the temple and the temple was being run by a bunch of crooks.

We know what the Sadducees were like. They were denying everything basically about the Bible and they're running this thing. And then the Pharisees were there and it had to break his heart, but yet he was still there. And that's the reason I'm still in ministry. I still believe in the church. Remember this, when we insult the church, we're insulting Jesus's wife.

And if I insulted Tom's wife, he probably punched me in the nose. And I just, I just think we need to be very, very careful. The church is what Jesus is building. He promises to build it. He's working to purify it.

He's using you. If you're following Jesus and you love the scriptures, love that pastor you got, love that church. You might remember the story of Apollos. Apollos comes to town and he's preaching and he's teaching the way of Jesus accurately, but only up to the baptism of John.

And then a couple of people take him aside and instruct him in the way more fully. And what a great example, you know, they were, you can find that in Acts 18. And I think, I think that's the reason we're, we're still in the places we are. Use those opportunities to strengthen the body of Christ. Tom Hughes, do you think folks are just being hypercritical, looking for perfection?

Some people are, you know, obviously not everybody, but you know, you're all gonna have some, they're going to be a little bit hypercritical. And I, in thinking of what Mark said, you know, Jesus still went through the temple. He still went and taught in the synagogue, taught in the synagogue at Capernaum. He addressed the issues with the Pharisees. You know, he built the lame man in John chapter five, and you know, he's confronted because he makes himself equal with God. But Jesus, by the Pharisees, you know, they're bothered by him, but he doesn't stop going.

You know what I mean? He still continued to move forward. And really, you only see the anger of Jesus come out a couple of times, and it was at the temple, but certainly the money changer issues that he got angered over, that was probably a fairly common sight there in the temple area. So when you look at it, Jesus was totally involved. He's still teaching, he was still ministering, and he still loved the people. He even loved the Pharisees.

And we know from the book of Acts that even some Pharisees come to faith in him eventually. One more email here from Charlene. She says, I'm sitting at my computer with tears in my eyes as I read your article on Remnant Believers. I totally relate to what you are describing.

I sometimes feel like a total failure because I can't get my friends and family to listen, let alone believe me when I tell them what's going on. Thank you for the encouragement. I love our Lord and will continue trying to touch people with his word of truth. And then a pastor writes and says, your Remnant online newsletter encouraged me so much as a Remnant believer living in a remotely rural area where there is little fellowship. I have found myself feeling the same way as those reporting in your newsletter. Add to that, I am an ordained minister, 42 years, and I have felt the isolation which comes from preaching and teaching prophecy from a dispensational Scofield viewpoint.

In the 1970s, this teaching was everywhere, Dave Wilkerson and many others. I find solace in prayer time studies and fellowship with genuine believers when possible. And the Lord has been gracious to keep a platform for me to teach and preach the message of preparation and consecration for the days before us. This has been your best and most accurate newsletter in recent memory.

And that's from Michael, who has been a long time pastor, feeling so very alone. Gentlemen, I'm going to have you come back next weekend because we still have got to get to Pastor Tom Hughes' new book, America's Coming Judgment, Where Is Our Hope? And we're going to talk about that next week if you both will come back. Is that okay? That'd be great.

Oh yeah. Well, let me kind of wrap up our programming today. And you know, Jesus says in Matthew 16, that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church, but the enemy is trying nonetheless. He knows that the church represents believers who are pushing back against the darkness of our times. He knows the church is where people gather to be encouraged, inspired and built up in the faith. Pray for our pastors and church leaders as they push back against the tide of evil, rising, trying to silence God's people and pastors.

I want to thank you for listening and we'll talk to you next week. We are a moment, you are forever, Lord of the ages, God before time. We are a vapor, you are eternal, love everlasting, reigning on high. Holy, holy, Lord God almighty, worthy is the Lamb who was slain.

Highest praises on earth. Thank you for joining us for today's Understanding the Times radio with Jan Markell. Across America and across the world wide web, we continue to report current events from a biblical perspective.

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They need to be aware of current events as viewed through the lens of scripture. Week after week, Jan Markell brings you a compelling hour, pointing out the dangers in today's culture and bringing hope through faith in Jesus Christ. We're asking you to join us in this listener-supported ministry as our financial partner. Please write with your tax-deductible gifts to Olive Tree Ministries, Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311. Contributions are also welcome at OliveTreeViews.org or by phone when you dial 763-559-4444. Don't forget, global updates with a biblical worldview are yours around the clock at OliveTreeViews.org. We look forward to hearing from you soon. We appreciate your continued prayer support for Jan and her media team. Jan Markell returns next week with another information and inspiration packed hour designed to help you understand the times.