Storm Warning

Jan and her guest today warn that a terrible storm is coming.

You need to be prepared. The left is not content that abortion or same-sex weddings or assisted suicide even be legal. They want to force you to help. And if you won't help, you won't be able to earn a living for your family because your job has now been redefined to include these things.

We are being discriminated against because of what we believe and being taught that we're intolerant and we won't accept other people, when in fact we will accept other people and we are taught to be loving toward all people. This is Understanding the Times Radio with Jan Markell. Jan's two guests this hour have been busy writing books and hosting a daily radio talk show in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Mike Lemay is the station manager of Q90 and is a co-host of the daily program Stand Up for the Truth with David Ferrazzo. Mike's latest book is titled The Death of Christian Thought, The Deception of Humanism, and How to Protect Yourself. David Ferrazzo is the other half of the radio duo. David's latest book is titled Redefining Truth, Delusions of Replacing God, and Calling Evil Good.

Olive Tree is not carrying either of these two books. We will tell you later how you can obtain a copy. Our guests are here to discuss the terrible storm that's quickly coming against the Judeo-Christian community. We'll join that conversation right after this. The New Yorker slamming Chick-fil-A for its Christian value, saying in an article titled Chick-fil-A's creepy infiltration of New York City, the brand's arrival here feels like an infiltration in no small part because of its persuasive Christian traditionalism. Here to weigh in as CBN's chief political correspondent and host of Faith Nation is David Brody. Hey, David. Hey, Ainsley. What do you think about this?

Where do I begin? How long is this segment, Ainsley? Look, I've got to tell you. This is hypocrisy. It's media hypocrisy at its best.

Here's the problem. The New Yorker, a liberal, obviously a liberal magazine and all of that, this is what they do. It's the latte-sipping crowd. They talk with other liberals, and all of a sudden it becomes this narrative out there. Christian traditionalism, you mean, hold on, Judeo-Christian values that define this country from its inception. Look, the article is so ridiculous on so many different fronts, but just take this. If this guy is going to write an article like this, well, how about, I don't know, maybe he should stop using money because the last time I checked In God Who We Trust is on our currency, and we can go on and on because he talks about all the symbols that Chick-fil-A has about God and Jesus.

My goodness, it's all over a grilled chicken sandwich, and they're pretty good. And welcome to the program, and that was just a little tease because, frankly, you would have to be totally disconnected to not understand that the war against Christians in the Western world is in, well, high gear. Christians are now targets of choice, and you may not yet have been affected, but you will be.

For sure, someone you care about either has been affected or will be affected. Traditional American Christians have long been on the losing end of the cultural war contests, on school prayer, same-sex marriage, and other issues. One of my guests this hour quotes Ben Shapiro of The Daily Wire who says, here's the real issue. When your religion is government and government is God, you cannot tolerate any other God before it, and you assume that all those who believe in God wish to mobilize government in order to impose God's will. Well, the rise of secularism has consequences, at least for those who are people of faith and also for the health of the country.

Europe decided to go secular decades ago and look at the consequences. We'll talk about this for the hour. I have two guests on the line from Wisconsin, and now kind of familiar voices, David Fiorazzo and Mike LeMay. They are both hosts on the popular Stand Up for the Truth radio program out of Green Bay, Q90. Welcome, gentlemen, to the program.

Thank you, Jan, for having us. Thank you, Jan. David, let me address this question to you, because you state the trend has changed from disagreeing with Christians to targeting them. And you say story after story is appearing where it seems like a Christian has a huge target on them, that they are being picked off almost literally. Anyway, I want to talk about some of these issues. And you're writing a whole lot about these issues. And by the way, you're writing an extremely provocative way.

And I appreciate it. Thank you, Jan. Yeah, that was on an article called Christians are now targets of choice. It used to be that people on the left or just atheists, whoever that didn't believe in God and Jesus Christ had that biblical worldview. It used to be that they just simply disagreed with us. Well, that has changed to now their vocal in their attacks on us. So that article was on the one relating to Cory Booker's grilling of Mike Pompeo, where he demanded to know Pompeo stance on homosexual sex, where he said, Do you believe gay sex is a perversion?

And Pompeo just took the classy angle and just said, This is what I've always spoken about about regarding marriage. But Booker's line of questioning was absolutely unconstitutional. Can you imagine being having a Jew, a Muslim, someone else asked that same kind of question? It wouldn't happen. Now, the constitutional clearly forbids religious tests for public office and Booker's line of questioning.

It was against the Christian, but it was unconstitutional. Well, I was going to actually play that clip. I can play it a little later. But you've raised it now. And I think the audience now is if they haven't heard it, are wondering what on earth you're talking about. Let me play. It's two and a half minutes. Cory Booker quizzing then Secretary of State candidate Mike Pompeo, who, by the way, is an evangelical Christian.

Let's play that. Do you know Frank Gaffney? Yes, I do. And you've been on his show dozens of times. I was on his show some.

Yes, Senator. I have here over 20 times and he has talked about Muslims should be who abide by the adherence to their faith should be considered should be tried for acts of sedition and should be prosecuted. Did you remain silent when you were on his show? Did you ever question?

Because I have a lot of his statements here. Did you remain silent on the on the he's my notes, at least you're a friend of his. Were you silent in your position of authority against these words that are violative of the American Constitution? Were you silent with him? Senator, my record on this is unambiguous. I served in. That's that's your response.

You did not say anything to call out his remarks. What about Bridget Gabriel? Do you know her?

I do. Someone who has been who runs an organization that has been considered a hate group by the Anti-Defamation League in the Southern Poverty Law Center. Have you ever were you silent? Did you ever call her out on her remarks that are hateful or bigoted? Senator, I've spoken to a number of groups in my I believe my record with respect to tolerance and the people as I think you never. Yes or no? You did you ever call her out?

I couldn't tell you. I don't recall each statement I've made over 54 years. OK, well, I believe a special obligation that you talk about for Americans to condemn things are attacking our Constitution. Our ideals would obligate you in your own definition to speak out when it comes to that. If I might, I have called that we had a terrible fellow in Kansas named Fred Phelps.

Sir, I haven't called him out. I have a minute left because I do want to give you a chance to speak about your comments on gay and lesbians. You said in a speech that morning in America that endorses perversion and calls it an alternative lifestyle is your words.

Is being gay a perversion? Senator, I when I was a politician, I had a very clear view on whether it was appropriate for two same sex persons to marry. I stand by that. So you do not believe it's appropriate for two gay people to marry? Senator, I continue to hold that view.

It's the same view. And so people in the State Department, I met some in Africa that are married under your leadership. You do not believe that that should be allowed? Senator, we have, I believe it's the case we have married gay couples at the CIA. You should know I treated them with the exact same set of rights.

Do you believe that gay sex is a perversion? Michael LeMay, I heard this live. I almost had to pick myself up off the floor. Dan, you know, it's amazing and it's sad. First of all, notice how liberals will ask questions and never give you a chance to answer. Yeah, exactly. That is textbook stuff right out of Saul Alinsky's rules for radicals and then misleading questions, setting a person up where they can't possibly give a good answer. It's kind of like, when did you stop beating your wife?

There's no good answer to that. The other thing, Jan, though, that I would be remiss if I don't point out is this attack on Christianity is being fostered within some of our very churches. Cory Booker two years ago was held up as a leader at the Willow Creek Leadership Summit, a man that Christians should emulate in his leadership style. And here he is blasting Mike Pompeo.

And, you know, with North Korea and Iran and the Middle East facing us, I think these are crucial issues. And all Cory Booker's doing is a sideshow to divert from the important issues and lay his political foothold, if you will, for a presidential run. So it's just, it's despicable and it's sad how liberals will ask misleading questions, never give you a chance to answer.

And it's very sad that some of our churches are promoting men like Cory Booker as ideal leaders for Christians to look up to. Jan Markell Well stated, Mike LeMay. You're listening to Understanding the Times Radio.

I'm Jan Markell. I have on the line Mike LeMay and Dave Fierrazzo. They host the program Stand Up for the Truth out of Q90.

That's out of Green Bay, Wisconsin. And we are talking about, quite frankly, what I think is a storm that is brewing on the horizon. And, General, I just want to move to another story here quickly. We have a lot to cover in a short time. I want to talk to you a little bit about California Assembly Bill 2943, which is going to ban counseling services and the sale of books expressing all orthodox views, possibly could ban the Bible, and a pro-LGBTQ bill is quickly making its way to the California State Assembly after it was approved on the floor recently. The bill now goes to the Senate for a vote. If passed, this Assembly Bill 2943 could ultimately threaten free speech and freedom of religion for Christians.

Dave Fierrazzo, you have written about this as well. This is going to ignore constitutional rights. Mike Huckabee writes, California is conducting a massive attack on Christianity.

And this is what happens when liberalism runs amok. But talk to us a little bit, David, about this Assembly Bill 2943, which, in my impression, my view, again, this is a terrible storm that's brewing on the horizon. We've gone from disagreeing with Christians to discriminating against them or us openly. And it was passed that it could ban counseling services and the sale of books expressing orthodox Christian views about sexual immorality. The bill would ban the Bible, possibly, and when you think of book burning, this kind of thing comes to mind. But AB 2943 would make it unlawful, it is not too worded, to engage in transactions offering to pursue sexual orientation change efforts with an individual.

So I like a quote from National Review's David French. He says, California state law would lock in a sexual revolution orthodoxy that hurts the very people they seek to protect. So bottom line, no state legislature should be permitted to ban a good, a service, and this is, again, underlying against Christians. David, paragraph 28 of the bill says this, it is disallowed to offer to engage in or engaging in sexual orientation change efforts with an individual. Isn't that what our public schools are doing, Jan? Are they not taking our young children, who are innocent, and filling their minds with confusion about sexual orientation and gender confusion?

So if you're going to ban books from trying to change someone's sexual orientation view, maybe you should start by banning public education. Well, you know, California, and unfortunately, what often begins in California can spread across the country very quickly. I mean, the elected Democrats out there are now pushing for a, get this folks, a communist holiday to replace US President's Day. Sometimes you have to conclude, Mike and David, that the left out there has been given over again to strong delusion, they've been given over to this reprobate mind. Again, I agree with Governor Mike Huckabee, who says California is conducting a massive attack on Christianity. And is that what this comes down to? Is this ultimately just another attack on Christianity?

Is that the root of it? Well, think about this, if our struggle is not against flesh and blood, then we know the underlying battle here is spiritual. And so why do they always attack the name of Jesus?

He is the only God that is alive. So the enemy knows, in California, you know, for whatever it's worth, there's some good, strong Christians there, definitely the minority, definitely battling a lot of these issues being discriminated against. And we've got to remember to keep our Christian friends there in prayer.

But you know, how can we respond? We've known there's a track record now, Christians believing the Bible and natural marriage have been suspended or fired from jobs, sued, taken to court, slandered, some have lost businesses. Some are still, I mean, there's the Jack Phillips court case, which we will be hearing from the Supreme Court any time on how they come down on this. But California, you're right, Jan, they set a precedent. And what happens in California, unfortunately, doesn't stay in California.

Let me just play a clip to back up what we're talking about. This is California could ban books on homosexuality and transgenderism. And the question is being raised by many. Could this include banning the Bible? California is looking to pass a bill that could ban the sale of Christian books that address issues of homosexuality and transgenderism.

Proceedings to pass the law are taking place quickly in the state, and the bill could pass in the California Senate as soon as late May. Joining us now to talk more about this is Anne Palk. She is the executive director of Restored Hope Network, which oversees about 13 ministries in California that help people overcome same-sex attraction. Welcome, Anne.

Thank you so much for having me. Explain for us what is in this bill. Well, I'm really saddened to have to share, but it actually prohibits both counseling and materials being sold that help people who want to leave homosexuality, including adults. And so it prohibits both the sale of any exchange that's related to financial exchange for counseling services or products and materials, including Christian conferences, books, videos, you name it.

Even advertising those materials are potentially subject to suit in the state of California if this bill passes. How does this affect the Bible? Because obviously the Bible speaks out against homosexuality.

Indeed it does. Now, the Bible might be prohibited in the case that somebody says, hey, I'm looking at, is homosexuality okay with God? Well, let me recommend to you that you purchase this Bible, and it has the answers for that question. The person goes and looks and reads 1 Corinthians 6, 9-11, which prohibits homosexuality, and says that such were some of you, which is amazing. It's this testimony of transformed lives, regenerated lives, amazing, Paul wrote. And as they do that, because the person went and purchased the Bible based upon the philosophy that that gives them the answers for how to leave homosexuality, they could literally sue based upon that fact.

So the Bible in that case would be prohibited. And Mike and David, I'm going back to the little clip I played to intro the program, and that is the attack on Chick-fil-A of all things. New Yorker magazine recently suggested Chick-fil-A, which is the third largest restaurant franchise in America, doesn't belong in their blue state, that's New York, because of the alleged infiltration of what one writer called pervasive Christian traditionalism. Again, the Christian worldview is under serious attack, and a storm is coming. Indeed, it is, Jan, and I think the reason Americans, businesses, and churches in America are particularly being targeted is the Judeo-Christian worldview is really, in my opinion, the last thing stopping the globalists from a complete takeover and a complete one-world government, because the Bible speaks very clearly about this coming. So I think the reason the full court press is going on in America is, number one, we call ourselves a Christian nation, and number two, if the United States and its Judeo-Christian principles can be toppled or dismissed, this is going to open the door for the globalists to have full rein with the plans that they are carefully trying to implement.

Danielle Pletka David, your thoughts on this? David Well, Tucker Carlson says that modern liberalism is a religious movement to replace Christianity, and he goes on to say, you can't commit sin if your intentions are pure, and liberals believe their intentions are the purest. If that sounds like theology and not public policy, that's because it is theology. Modern liberalism is a religious movement.

It's replacement for the Protestant Christianity that the left worked so hard to undermine and destroy. Liberals are speaking the language of faith, albeit of faith without God. This is the main reason that the right and left talk past each other, the reason our public debates are so weird and unsatisfying. One side arrives with facts and stats and arguments, the other brags about its decency.

One side is trying to convince, the other is trying to convert. When I get back, I want to talk about a couple of things. I do want to talk about something you've written, David Fierrazzo, and that is you've written about the Beyonce mass that happened in San Francisco.

And also, Mike LeMay, you've had kind of a personal experience with the issue that we're talking about, the marginalization of Christians and forcing Christians to comply with godless principles and godless ideas. And I want you to talk about exactly what's happened or what's in the process of happening to you there in Wisconsin near Green Bay. I'm coming back, folks, in just a couple of minutes, and we will continue our discussion with Mike LeMay and David Fierrazzo.

You can catch them online, stand up for the truth. It's every morning, I believe, at 9 a.m. Central Time on Q90. Understanding the Times airs there every Saturday at 9 a.m. Central Time, back in just a couple of minutes. We know you've enjoyed the first installment of Jan's conversation with her two guests on today's edition of Understanding the Times.

Digital recordings of today's broadcast can be yours when you phone our order line, 763-559-4444. David Fierrazzo's latest publication, Redefining Truth, Delusions of Replacing God and Calling Evil Good, can be ordered through Amazon.com. Mike LeMay's new publication, The Death of Christian Thought, The Deception of Humanism, and How to Protect Yourself, can also be ordered at Amazon.com. Remember our website is our link to you and all kinds of resources to help you discern the times. Please take some time and look over all the information posted at OliveTreeViews.org for your benefit. Also, don't forget, we are listener-supported. We're asking you to consider helping to underwrite this broadcast ministry. We welcome your tax-deductible gift sent to Olive Tree Ministries, Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311. Understanding the Times 2018 is not that far away. Saturday, September 29th, 830 a.m. to 5 p.m. Please note the earlier starting time.

There are still tickets available for $10, $15, and $20. Visit our website, OliveTreeViews.org, and go to conferences or contact BrushFire.com. I'll give you an 800 number as soon as you get a pencil and paper. Don't miss the like-minded fellowship as well, as our cutting-edge speakers include Pastor Jack Hibbs, Pastor J.D.

Farag, Pastor Billy Crone, Eric Barger, and Amir Sarfati. Headlines today are a harbinger of his return. We'll unpack that Saturday, September 29th. Learn to be a watchman on the wall. We live in challenging times, but things aren't falling apart.

They're falling into place. Learn how at Understanding the Times 2018. For tickets, order online or call BrushFire at 888-338-5338.

That's 888-338-5338. The conference will be live streamed on our website, OliveTreeViews.org, at no cost. Like pop-ups on the internet, mainstream media double standards never stop. In fact, I agree with Fox News host Tucker Carlson, who said, hypocrisy is the heart of modern liberalism. George Orwell's chilling novel about a futuristic state of government control and censorship seems to be unfolding right before our very eyes.

The left infamously touting their causes one of respect and tolerance has shown itself mean and spiteful toward anyone who dares publicly oppose their ideology and increasingly willing to intimidate those who speak out against their agenda. Understanding the Times radio continues. Let's return now to Jan Markell's discussion with Mike LeMay and David Verrazzo. San Francisco's Grace Cathedral looked and sounded more like a concert than a church for a first of its kind Beyonce mass. It was amazing. It was one of the best spiritual experiences I've ever had. It was fun. It was uplifting.

It was also really rejuvenating. People wrapped around the side of the cathedral an hour ahead of time to attend the blockbuster mass. Normally, the Wednesday Night Vine service has 50 people in attendance, but with Beyonce in the house, this service had 750 people.

We didn't expect this response. Reverend Jude Harmon says Grace Cathedral put the invite to the service on Facebook and it blew up. We thought it would be kind of a small, you know, like exploration as a community about what it means to lift up black female voices. I use Beyonce as a central figure to have these conversations about the realities that black women face. Reverend Yolanda Norton is the brain behind Beyonce mass and gave tonight's sermon. Norton is a professor at San Francisco Theological Seminary and teaches a class on Beyonce and the Hebrew Bible. She explains that she's using Beyonce's wide appeal to bring a diverse group of people together. I know people think that, you know, we're worshipping Beyonce. None of that is true.

This is a way to just have different kinds of conversation. Norton says nothing is scheduled yet, but this will not be the last Beyonce mass. In San Francisco, Kate Larson, ABC 7 News.

Well, it doesn't get much stranger than that. I want to talk about that this segment. Our mother who art in heaven, hallowed be Beyonce. Before I get there, just let me make a quick announcement here because you've heard our promo for Understanding the Times 2018. Seats for that event are almost sold out.

There are a few left. And by the way, there are no bad seats in the 4300 seat venue that we have at Grace Church Eden Prairie, Minnesota. But if you would prefer to just enjoy the September 29th conference in the comfort of your home church fellowship group, we will be live streaming the event at no cost. You just have to access our website on the day of the conference. You might get a group together and enjoy it by connecting your computer maybe to a big screen.

The event will also be archived so you can watch it a day or a week or even a month later. So quick reminder that we have a section for the hearing impaired and we'll provide a facilitator and sign language and some of those seats remain. But you have to call Brushfire Ticketing for sign language seats and for handicapped seats.

Again, for sign language and handicap, you have to call the Brushfire Ticketing Agency, 888-338-5338. David Fiarazzo, you wrote about this Beyonce Mass. I found it intriguing.

Let me just quote what you've written here. You wrote, Grace Cathedral, an Episcopal church in San Francisco, held what's called the Beyonce Mass and at an evening service, 50 people generally, 900 turned out. People are free to worship however they want, but doing this at a church was both confusing and controversial. The Bible teaches Christians to be set apart from the world, not to blend in. And Jesus said, if we love the things of this world, God the Father's love is not in us. The Beyonce Mass was inspired by a guest Reverend Yolanda Norton and by an actual class she teaches at San Francisco Theological Seminary, Beyonce and the Hebrew Bible.

Gentlemen, I can't wait to sign up for that class, sounds really inspiring. David, your thoughts on this? I'm going to read another quote from you here, but a Beyonce Mass, oh please, what next? Well, first of all, San Francisco Theological Seminary and the class is Beyonce and the Hebrew Bible.

Who knew? Jan, I don't know, this must grieve God's heart and I know a lot of believers that take God's Word seriously, this grieves them as well, but you almost have to laugh at this. But again, it's using entertainment to seep into the church and culture and entertainment.

They're dangerous when they are so not Christian. We're talking about someone who's lifted up as a role model for young girls, particularly African American girls. We know about her occult influences, her graphic and offensive song lyrics, her sexually charged R-rated performances on stage, her past blasphemy.

She also admits to being possessed by demonic spirit named, she gave it a name, Sasha Fierce, when she goes into one of her performances, though this is all you can look this up, it's in her words and in other people who have done exposes on her. But the spirituality behind this is interesting. It's contemporary feminism, it often comes in the form of goddess worship and the fact that many have a desire to overthrow the patriarchal structure in society. It's a rebellion against God as Father. One idea behind this is liberation, freedom for women to regain their natural power, right?

To have authority over men. Now, Jan, in order to accomplish this dominance, they must invoke certain spirits and help destroy the Judeo-Christian religion. And that's why in this Beyonce mask, you had to have, they come up with this perverse feminist version of the Lord's Prayer, our mother who is in heaven and within us, we call upon your names, your wisdom come, your will be done in all the spaces in which you dwell. And it goes on, and I don't want to quote the whole thing, but that should grieve our hearts because these people are lifting this up as something that's supposedly going to draw people in and point them to what? The only true God?

I don't think so. David, I want to read the prayer. I think we should read the whole prayer. Our mother who is in heaven and within us, we call upon your names, your wisdom come, your will be done in all the spaces in which you dwell. Give us each day sustenance and perseverance. Remind us of our limits as we give grace to the limits of others. Separate us from the temptation of empire, but deliver us into your community. For you are the dwelling place within us, the empowerment around us and the celebration among us now and forever.

Amen. David, you go on to say, and you rightfully cited Beyonce's occult leanings, and that's an understatement. Some of our listeners remember the 2013 Super Bowl halftime show where she mimicked the Hindu goddess Kali. Certainly she and her husband Jay-Z, they actually market occult clothing, etc. But you say, going back to this Queen Bey, Beyonce, but is Queen Bey an appropriate role model for the African American woman, particularly for women who do seek to follow the Bible's teachings on holiness, morality, sanctification, and truth. These are not bad people. They're just wrong and ignorant about promoting evil. And this is another gospel that you say for your information, grace, cathedrals, the host yoga, candlelight, labyrinth walks, etc.

Now let me quote christiannews.net. However, some state that the often scantily clad sexually suggestive singer isn't exactly the most exemplary role model for African American women, especially those who seek to follow Christ and lead holy lives. Beyonce is a horrifying role model for those who want to worship the living God. But sadly, she is a great role model for those who would rather worship Beyonce themselves and dark occultic powers. So I am so glad you wrote about this, David Fierrazzo.

Well, thank you, Jan. How could I not? You see something like that come out. And how much have we seen in the last couple decades—and Mike and I talk about this almost every week—where a church in America uses worldly means, or entertainment in this case and in many cases, to attract the world. Think about this.

Take this to its logical conclusion. Once you get the people, the world, in your church, whatever church that might be, what are you gonna do to keep them there if you used the world to attract them? True.

That's all right, David. I mean, when you attract people with things of the world, you have to keep them with things of the world. And as we see the growth coming and the money coming, it's very difficult for a pastor to revert back and teach the actual Word of God because suddenly he's gonna find his flock reduced by 80%.

You have to water down the gospel to keep them. Well, Beyonce and her husband Jay-Z, they proudly wear clothing that celebrates every occult theme, including arch-Satanist Aleister Crowley, and they often sing and celebrate Lucifer and they flash signs and symbols that are blatantly occultic again. Folks, what we're talking about was a Beyonce mass that took place in a San Francisco church. Obviously, it's not a kind of a church.

Well, let's face it, it's California, it's San Francisco and all that. We can make those kinds of excuses, gentlemen, but talk about the great end-time apostasy, the falling away. You know, I doubt this church ever had the light, so suggesting that it went from light to dark is probably a stretch.

I suspect it's always been dark. But I've watched this whole service online, and it was shocking, simply shocking. There's one thing that the reverend, one of the reverends there, Jude Harmon, said that was very revealing, Jan. He said, conservative Christians see a high wall separating the church from the world. Progressive Christians do not.

And therein lies the little nugget of truth that they think you can just blend them, and everything's going to be okay, and they'll still somehow come to the conclusion that the Bible and Jesus is the only way. Okay, well, I think we've said all we can about the Beyonce mass. It's just as indicative of what's happened here in sort of these last days. Frankly, I think some of my listeners are shocked, but maybe they shouldn't be. But let's talk a little bit about what's going on in your neighborhood, kind of literally. And Mike LeMay, you and I talked recently, folks, you're listening to Understanding the Times Radio. I'm Jan Markell. I'm talking to Mike LeMay and Dave Fiarazzo from Q90, Green Bay, Wisconsin, and they host the popular daily program Stand Up for the Truth.

You can find that online if you're not living in that part of the area of Wisconsin. You, apparently, last October, with only minimal public disclosure, let me explain, let me just set the stage, and then I'll give it to you, Mike, to explain what happened and where you're at now. With minimal public disclosure, the DePere, Wisconsin City Council, and that's where your radio station is licensed, debated a nondiscrimination proposal that would force establishments in DePere to hire and provide any and all services for homosexuals and gender-confused people. It eventually passed, 5-4, and during the hearings, you, Mike, along with several local pastors, expressed your concerns that the ordinance was written so broadly that it could force Christian churches and your radio station, Q90, to promote events that are opposed to Biblical teachings. You take it from there, Mike. What happened?

Where do you see it going? Well, we've been talking about the attack on Christianity for eight years on Stand Up for the Truth, and it certainly has hit home, Jan. And I hope listeners that are listening to this will understand the need to be diligent at the local level. So they hastily called this public meeting.

There was probably five hours of testimony. In the question-and-answer session, and this was listed, by the way, on the city's website afterwards, the city attorney stated publicly they had no intention of forcing this ordinance on churches or religious organizations. So all we said was, well, then simply put a clearly religious exemption clause into the legislation, and they refused to do it. Now, we have since, and we told them before the hearing that if they passed this, we believe it was unconstitutional, and we would be opposing it in court.

They thought we were bluffing. So Pacific Justice Institute is defending us and five Christian churches as we're bringing a lawsuit against the city of De Pere. Very interesting, Jan, though, how public officials will deceive you. They said publicly there was no intention of forcing churches or religious organizations to adhere to this. Now, we've filed our challenge in court. The court has asked the city of De Pere to respond, and guess what? They're now saying, oh, yeah, we know this applies to churches and we expect churches to follow its mandates. So they deceive people up front.

Jan, the hearing itself was amazing. One pastor got up and said, what if a local business owner had a Bible out on his counter or had a sign in his window that said, we believe in the biblical definition of marriage? Could they be sued under this ordinance? The city attorney said, well, we don't know.

I guess we're just gonna have to find out. Wow. And it's absolutely appalling.

The motive of the city officials in De Pere is clear. They want to shut down forced churches in our radio station to promote things that are unbiblical by the way, Jan. Our board of directors is unanimous. We will not give in even if this remains a law. Now, where we're at currently, there's a next hearing on June 1. If we lose, we will be appealing to the Wisconsin Supreme Court where we're confident of victory. And in a way, Jan, if we lose locally, it might be a blessing in disguise from this point.

If it goes to the Wisconsin State Supreme Court, which is a conservative court, this may force the overturn of these types of ordinances throughout Wisconsin because many cities in Wisconsin, De Pere simply took a cookie cutter approach and put the same legislation forward that Appleton and other cities have. So I hope your listeners around the nation will be diligent, will be watching their public officials, watching their school boards. We're so busy chasing entertainment and sports and money nowadays.

We're so overwhelmed with busyness. We're not able to see evil happening right before our eyes. So I certainly hope that Christians around the nation will wake up and realize their religious liberties are under attack by an enemy who will do everything he can through the courts, education, and media to silence God and His Word once and for all. Okay, now I think our concern is that this indeed can and will spread across the country, this kind of tactic. You said to me that, and you just implied it here a minute ago as well, that your station, Q90 in Green Bay, you would have to promote LGBTQ events on air. Your Christian station, if this would pass, you'd have to promote things on air.

And my understanding is then churches would also have to promote various activities. And you told me you would go to jail first, but you're going to be called a hater, of course, Mike, correct? I mean, that's where all this always leads. My lovely wife who works with us here at the ministry says, congratulations, sweetheart.

You've somehow managed to become the most loved and hated man in the city to appear all at one time. Okay. There's a hearing June 1st. That's just a few days away, actually. So how do you think this hearing is going to play out? Well, it's interesting, Jan, because the initial judge that was appointed, we felt really good.

He's actually a believer. The city of DePiercer, we don't want that judge. So another one was appointed. I did some research on the judge, and he is a strong promoter of the LGBTQ agenda. So we vetoed that choice.

So it's kind of like a football game where each coach gets one challenge. Now on June 1st, the new judge will be appointed. He or she will be the mandatory judge on this.

So Jan, we don't know. We know we have the Constitution of Wisconsin and the United States backing us clearly. We have case law backing us clearly.

But you know as well as anyone, it all depends what type of judge hears the case. And you also said to me that when all of this was kind of playing out, they came in and apparently they just blatantly lied to you. I mean, in other words, you can't trust a word these folks are saying when they're setting the stage here for these kinds of laws.

No, think about it, Jan. I mean, verbally, they said in the hearings, we have no intention of enforcing this on churches and your radio station. We don't view them as places of public accommodation. But then when the legal challenge came, they've now reversed course and said, no, we think churches and your nonprofit radio station are places of public accommodation, and we expect you to adhere to this law. So you can't trust these officials because they will lie through their teeth to promote their agenda. And if more Christians don't stand up and realize what's happening, it isn't going to be just a peer Wisconsin. It's going to be in every city, in every state, in our great nation. Well, that's why I'm even doing a segment on this. I mean, listeners may think, well, this is your part of Wisconsin.

It's your problem, not mine. And the point is, and when we started out talking about California, what starts in California spreads across country. But for that matter, what can be going on in the area near Green Bay, Wisconsin certainly can be spreading across the country very easily and very quickly.

Gentlemen, when I get back, here's what I'd like to do. We've kind of presented some issues here today, and I think things are out of control. And I've said, now this would be the fourth time I've said it, a storm is coming. The storm is already here. The storm is the absolute attack and assault by the left on all things Christian conservative, the Christian, the biblical worldview is completely under attack by the godless left.

And it's getting literally worse by the day, not by the year, but by the day. And I'd like to talk about what can the average listener do? I think some feel a little bit helpless. They hear about the activity in California and the bill we talked about that could, in a worst case scenario, ban the Bible, for goodness sakes. And there are strong believers in California. So what can folks in North Dakota do? What can folks in Florida do? Christians who are hearing this, who are kind of wondering what's next.

If you would weigh into this when we get back, I'd really appreciate it. Folks, don't go away. Don't touch your dial. One of the best ways that we stay in touch with you is through our website at OliveTreeViews.org. You'll find our radio archives and many other resources to help you understand the times. As you may know, this ministry is listener supported. We depend on your generosity to stay on the air in your location. Please consider becoming a partner with us in this broadcast. We welcome your tax-deductible gifts mailed to Olive Tree Ministries, Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311.

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We are understanding the times radio with Jan Markell. As Christians, are we called to lay down and take what is to come to ourselves and our children or are we called to defend ourselves and bear arms? I think that self-defense is not only morally appropriate, but it's a moral obligation. Sometimes being faithful to Christ means that our lives are going to be threatened. Sometimes, I mean, the history of the church is filled with such a thing. And when push comes to shove, we have no alternative in my view but to be faithful to Jesus regardless of the cost to us personally. Now Mike LeMay and David Verrazzo rejoin Jan Markell for the conclusion of today's Understanding the Times. When Christians take the path of least resistance, there are consequences.

Hi, I'm David Verrazzo. Because of our past silence, fewer people are being saved and culture is rapidly decaying. Jesus said, you are the salt of the earth, but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? Now it's true that God is doing some great things in lots of churches, but immorality is increasing in America. Christians are not having the impact we used to have and our religious freedoms are being threatened. Dietrich Bonhoeffer once said, silence in the face of evil is itself evil. What are we so afraid of and why do we keep ducking the issue of sin? You know, when Peter and the apostles were ordered not to speak about Jesus, you know what they said? We must obey God rather than men. The apostle Paul later said, if I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. They all understood that silence never saved anyone. So if we really love others, wouldn't we tell them the truth that sin separates us from God?

Silence in the face of evil is evil itself. Just a couple of comments here before we wrap up our program. And remember, you get a CD of any program, become a CD subscriber. Got to call us on that very nominal cost.

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We've had an interesting hour here. I have on the line from the Green Bay, Wisconsin area, Mike LeMay and Dave Fierrazzo. You've heard them both on my program before, and they're both authors. They've got tremendous books out and they host the program Stand Up for the Truth out of Green Bay, Wisconsin. And you can listen online.

I highly recommend you do because you'll hear some cutting edge information you don't hear a lot of other places. And I kind of wanted to save this closing segment because we presented a lot of problems this hour, a lot of dilemma, let's put it that way, a lot of dilemma going on in the Christian community and in the church and in other places, certainly marginalization, the fact that a storm is coming against believers, Christians, conservatives. Gentlemen, let's spend the next 10 minutes talking about solutions. And we talked a little bit off air and you suggested some solutions.

Let's go there. We can pray, we can get involved. Mike, what do you mean get involved? Well, first of all, be involved and knowledgeable about what is happening in your local governments and in your school boards. We can make a difference. Pray about asking if God wants you to run for a position in your local government or your school board. School boards still have a tremendous amount of influence on the curriculum that our children are being taught.

So if you don't feel the call to be involved as a school board member or a city council member, at least watch the papers, be cognizant of what's going on and make sure your voice is heard when these types of things are presented that we're facing here in De Pere, Wisconsin. Well, we can be spiritually prepared and that's getting to be a full-time job because the pushback, the spiritual warfare is getting so intense as the enemy ramps up his attacks and his strategy. Absolutely, Jan, and being spiritually prepared to me is, it's a two-step process. Number one, we know the truth that God has already won the final war.

Victory is his. Satan is a defeated enemy. So trust in God's word. Secondly, the Bible does warn us these things are going to get worse and worse. So are we spiritually prepared as the attacks intensify when the day comes when maybe we cannot assemble as believers? Are we spiritually prepared, always praying and asking God for the best, but being prepared for the very difficult times many of us feel Christians in our nation will experience one day? They are experiencing as we speak. They're experiencing them.

I haven't given all the illustrations we could give. I mean, we had a bus driver in Minnesota who was praying with his kids who ride the bus. Dave Fiarazzo, I think he lost his job, didn't he? I think he was suspended, Jan, and I'm getting back to what Mike was saying and where the church is concerned, the leaders, but also parents teaching their kids at home, the Bible, the whole truth, Genesis to Revelation.

All Scripture is inspired by God. Back to teaching the whole counsel of God, and of course, that includes prophecy. But the three areas where I think parents and we can have an impact, education, culture, and church. Education. Kids are taught in the public school system, run by a secular government, that they are meaningless, random accidents, that their lives don't have purpose.

But that is just the opposite of created in the image of God, and God has a purpose for every life, and every life is valuable. In culture, there's a war against life, war against marriage. We can have an impact on what hours of influence, the hours we spend on entertainment versus in the Word of God.

Music, movies, TV, social media, this all makes a difference, and this helps program us, or it hurts us, I should say. I call a lot of it soul pollution, but how can we respond? Stay the course, don't fret, don't be surprised by any of this. We are warned in the Bible. Jesus told his followers that they would be hated because of him, and we in America, although things are going to get worse, we cannot possibly compare what's happening to us with what our brothers and sisters in Christ and hostile nations are going through. So our job, press on, trust in the Lord with all of our hearts, and be faithful. Church leadership has a role to play here. The church was established by Jesus Christ with elders to equip the saints for the work of the Holy Spirit, and we're not doing a very good job of that.

We've got this syndrome I call Ostrich Christianity these days, where we stick our head in the sand and pretend the world is seashells and balloons. Our leaders need to start stepping up, equipping our men as leaders in their home and leaders in their community, equipping the saints to understand deception and to be able to speak the truth and love into a dark culture that needs light and salt desperately. Something else I think we need to talk about here as part of the solution, and that is I think listeners need to understand the times, and I'm grateful for programming like yours, Stand Up for the Truth, hopefully understanding the times. Radio is helping folks understand the times.

But here's what I'm seeing, gentlemen, talking to Mike LeMay and Dave Fierazzo out of Q90 near the Green Bay area in Wisconsin. I'm seeing people disconnect because they're getting disgusted with our times, they're getting discouraged with our times, and they're deciding, you know what, I'm going to go into my whatever world that's safer, that's a whole lot less complicated, and they're unplugging in the process. They're not staying in tune with even what we're talking about. They're shocked with what we've talked about today because they don't understand the times.

They're not like the sons of Issachar who understood the times. And I understand that, Jan, if you just look at what's happening out there, and if all you're hearing is the noise and the tumult and the chaos of our culture and our government, the politics and the attacks on Christians, it can be potentially overwhelming. But again, it comes back to who and what are we focusing on, and then we have a job to do.

If we love people, we will tell them the truth. And this attitude of, well, I'm just going to revert back into my little church corner and my home and let the world be what the world will be. Where would we be today if Paul and Peter and John took that attitude? A fierce opposition to the gospel, taking their lives in their hands every time they open their mouth, yet the Holy Spirit gave them the power and the courage and the righteous standing to be able to speak the truth and love.

So if it was good enough for Paul and Peter and John, it needs to be good enough for us today as Christians in America. Okay, why don't you each give the name of the latest book you've written and where folks can get it. Folks, we're not carrying the products right now, but Mike, the name of your book is?

The Death of Christian Thought, the Deception of Humanism and How to Protect Yourself, certainly playing into what we talked about today, and probably the best place to get it is at Amazon. And Dave Fiarazzo, your latest book. Thank you, Jen, Redefining Truth, and you can get that on Amazon or DavidFiarazzo.com. Yep, DavidFiarazzo.com. I know that's a tough name sometimes to write down, folks. DavidFiarazzo.com.

And you can tap into them. Again, Q90, Stand Up for the Truth radio program. Gentlemen, I want to thank you for contending for the faith, for also contending for the truth here and some of the issues that we've talked about, and for standing up for believers who are, again, there's a target on them. It's just stunning what I see happening to people of faith, conservatives, but more than that, just plain believers, what they're going through today. And I had some thoughts kind of going out of this program, because the Bible said there was a coming day when evil would be called good, and good would be called evil. Isaiah 5-20, when black would be white, up would be down, when the world would drown in political correctness and biblical incorrectness. And according to Romans 1, when mankind who rejects God or enjoys mocking the Bible would be turned over again to that reprobate mind, and we are there. But I'm always reminded of the words out of Psalm 2. It says there that the one enthroned in heaven laughs. The Lord scoffs at them. He rebukes them in his anger. And the Lord scoffs at the people we've talked about today. A terrible day of reckoning awaits them. They're not going to be enjoying their foolishness someday. Someone has said that we seek to be a popular people over a peculiar people.

We desire to be conformed instead of transformed. And I kind of want to close with a quote from Charles Spurgeon. He says that a time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the sheep will have clowns entertaining goats.

That's C.H. Spurgeon so many years ago and how, well, prophetic he was in that kind of a statement as we close. I want to thank you for listening. We'll talk to you next week. Thank you for joining us for today's Understanding the Times radio with Jan Markell. Across America and across the world wide web, we continue to report current events from a biblical perspective. Every weekend this broadcast comes to you at no cost.

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