You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm John Galantis and welcome back to the Clearview Today studio with our host, Dr. Abadan Shah. For those of you listening for the very first time, Dr.
Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. Dr. Shah got a great week on the horizon, my friend. Looking forward to it. It's very good to have you in the studio.
Thank you.
So back by popular demand, I did want to play this game with you. This is the Bible Guess It game. I got a bunch of people writing in saying we haven't done Proverbs and not verbs in a while. We haven't done hot take. We haven't done the Bible Guess It game.
So it is back. For those of you guys who have never heard the Bible Guess It game before, this was sent to us by one of our church members. It's from the Action Bible. And basically, you've got 15 clues. Each clue gets a little bit more obvious as you go down the line.
Typically, people get it around about the 7th, 8th. When you play with a text critic and a Bible scholar, typically they get... it right off the bat.
So Dr. Shah, this is a person, okay? I'm Enosh's grandmother. Oh my goodness. No, I don't know.
Uh no. My name. probably means living. Mm-mm. My eyes were opened.
Mm-mm. My husband named me. God gave me clothes to wear. No, give it up. I don't know this person.
My first. I will skip down a little bit. My first home was a garden. Eve? Yeah, it's Eve.
Enosh. Oh, goodbye. Oh, my goodness. It's okay. It's okay.
Look, we, we, it's. It's the mother of all living. It's the beginning of a new week. Here we go. This is a place.
This is a place. A Levite from here visited Micah. Oh. Keep going. My name means house of bread.
Bethlehem. Bethlehem. Yeah, I was going to preface it by saying that we've been there, but. But I figured that would be too obvious. How many times have you been to Bethlehem now?
Four? At least, yes, four times. Four times? Very cool.
Okay, this is a person. The Spirit lifted me by my hair. Huh? Boozy or booze I? B-U-Z-I?
Yeah. My name means God is strong. I shaved my head and burned my hair. I don't know. My wife, dang it, this one's rough.
My wife died, and I didn't cry. Oh, boy. I'm at loss here. I dug through a wall with my hands. Nope.
I lay off. Wow, I didn't know this about this person. I ate a scroll. Oh, I mean, I all these are very familiar. I just don't know the name of the person.
I someone ate a scroll. Is that Jeremiah? No, it's not Jeremiah. It's close. I lay on my left side for 390 days.
No no idea. I made I was made a watchman for Israel. Oh. That's um Ezekiel? Yes, it's Ezekiel.
Oh, I didn't know any of those. Yeah. My wife died, and I didn't cry. Yes. That's Ezekiel 20.
Scroll eating. I was like, come on, I can do this. He ate a scroll? Wow.
Okay. This is um Uh this is a place. This is a location. I'm not doing well, folks. No, you're doing fine.
You're doing fine. We also usually have Ryan to bounce off of, too. Yeah. I had a, this is a location. I had a big mouth.
Hmm. False witnesses. Not not hell.
Okay. It you could you could say it's a it's a form of hell. False witnesses were killed here. Hmm. I'm in Babylon.
Bones were crushed here. Hmm. I was sealed with a ring. The Lions did? Yes, it's the Lions Dennis.
Yeah, okay. It's the Lions Didn't. Yep. All right.
Well, last one. Last one. This is a thing. Oh, man. This one's kind of broad.
This one's kind of broad. I'm not gonna lie. This is not looking good. No, no, no, you're fine. You're fine.
This one's kind of broad. Okay. It's a thing, it's an object. Paul saw me in Athens. Oh, hang on.
Um, was it, um The Areopagus? No.
Okay. Close. Noah built me. The Ark? No, not the Ark.
Abram built me. Like an altar? Yes, it's an altar.
Okay. You did the best. That was the broadest one. That was the one you got the quickest. Yeah, it was an altar.
Yeah, I mean, that's the Bible guess it game, man. That's a that's a it humbles you folks. It does, not at all. Listen, that was to be to be getting them in like five or six is pretty normal. To be getting them in one or two, like you and Ryan typically do is usually.
I almost thought about giving that game up because it was like they, they, they get them in like one or two guesses. No, that's a great, great game. Dr. Shah, today's verse of the day is coming to us from the Gospel of John, chapter 16, and verse 33. These things I have spoken to you, that in me you may have peace.
In the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world. And I think when we look out at our world today, especially when we look at our nation. Those words kind of hit different. You know what I mean?
When things are going well in life and and it's like, okay, cool, Jesus is overcome, Jesus is powerful. But when we look at what's been going on in our nation and thank goodness things are starting to finally change, but looking at our nation over the past four years, it's like, man, The fact that Jesus has overcome is really the only hope we're holding on to. You know, they used to stay back in the 60s, 70s, Jesus is the answer for the world today. That is still the case, has been. Jesus is the answer for the world today.
The turmoil the world has been in, the problems that we have been facing, I mean, these were not just problems. Things got really, really bad in America, especially in the past four years. And it felt like biblical values were gone. I mean, it's not like they were o on the way out, they were gone. And mor immorality and everything that is anti Um The Bible was being celebrated, and Christians were on the run.
I mean, we were looked upon as being your day is done. Either you conform to us, or it's a matter of time before we will weed you out. And now there is a shift that is coming. And the shift is amazing, it's beautiful. I prayed for this shift.
We prayed for this shift, but we didn't think it was going to come. And it came. And that is once again, Christianity. is being brought back into the public square. And we thought this would never happen.
And it did. In 2020. Four, I think, in RB. You were in Egypt. Yes.
You were in Egypt, and that was our very first NRB that we ever attended. And I really, really was glad that you guys were able to go to Egypt because you and David went and did a lot of filming. You and Nicholas and your kids as well were in Egypt filming. And we went to Nashville for NRB. And we didn't know this, but President Trump was the guest speaker.
They didn't publicize it at all. It was not on the agenda. It was a big surprise. Or it might have been security reasons. I'm not sure.
I'm sure. But. He showed up. And you know, we were sitting and we were watching. And I completely like, I understand on one hand.
That he knows exactly how to speak to a crowd. But that night, I definitely felt that something was different about the way he was speaking. And he said something that I think I'll remember forever because now I'm starting to see it happen. He said, You know, there are people in this nation who are against you, talking to religious broadcasters and just Christians in general. And he said, For too long, they've been in power.
And he said, They have. They have taken our sanity. They've taken our free speech. They've taken everything from us. He said, But I pledge to you as your future president, they will never take the cross of Christ.
I don't know why, but when he said that, I mean, it it It just It just affected me. You know what I mean? It really affected me. And I said, man. I believe him.
Right. Cut to today. And we're seeing that happen. Absolutely. We're seeing the fruition of those words.
And I believe God has put him where he's put him to get us to this place. Absolutely. We did not vote for a pastor from the White House. That's right. Of course, we want somebody, a person of integrity, a person of morality.
Of course, yes. But at the same time, we did not vote for somebody to just be up there and try to be winsome and try to be loved and try to be patient and kind. Of course, those things are wonderful. Sure. But not if you are about to lose your nation.
That's right. Not if the foundation of this nation are not just being ignored, but they are being eroded. And so we needed somebody to get up there and say, no. This is still a great nation. This is still may have problems, but let's fix those problems, not destroy or try to remake this nation according to some social Marxist ideology or even a secular.
Social Marxism, you know, where you're taking secular values and using social Marxist principles to convert everybody or to. to to make everyone Follow whatever you want them to do. You know, you've had a lot of opportunities here in the very recent past to make yourself known and make your voice heard, not only with this show, but just also in politics itself.
So, like, you were able to go to the National Day of Prayer at the White House. You were able to jump on the call with President Trump and other pastors here very recently. And then, in between those two, it was the hearing. What was the first religious liberty hearing? Yes.
Yes, in Washington, D.C. I think, I think a lot of those opportunities are because there are people who are very high up in politics. And, you know, I think they're seeing this is a man who didn't grow up here. And yet He loves this nation. And I think that's important.
Sometimes it takes someone from somewhere else, but they come to this nation and they say, Hey, listen, I don't know what y'all's problem is, but I love it here. I love this nation and I'm willing to fight for it. And I think that, even through this show and through your messages on the pulpit, has really impacted people. I think it's touched people. Thank you.
Thank you.
Let me be very, very clear for those who are listening and watching and have been for some time, or you just hopped on today and you're hearing us for the first time or watching us for the first time. My purpose in speaking out For Christian values in America, or my purpose in speaking out for that, we need help in America.
Something is. Is terribly wrong in some of the decisions that we've been making, some of the value systems that we are espousing, and the church is not speaking out, and people have lost their courage, was never to have some limelight. Right. It was never. If I wanted to have a limelight, I would create an organization and I would try to rally some people together and start building connections with this.
That was no interest. I was speaking out. I was like, I have to. And this is something I began, golly, back in 2008. Even prior to that, I believed these things.
But in 2008, in that election that, of course, was manifested in 2009, I was speaking out in 2008 and saying, you know, America cannot go down this road. And of course, we did. And then for eight years, we saw. how America began to go downhill. That's right.
And until President Trump was elected the first term in office, and I was like, wow, there's a big change, good things are coming. And there was such a difficult time. even then for Christian values to be brought back, but he did, he tried. And then, of course. 2020 happened, and the pandemic happened, and then of course the election and all that went on for 21, 22, 23, 24.
Yeah. All this time, I was just speaking out because I felt like If I didn't. If I don't speak out, Then Who else will? Do you think pan and I agree with you? Do you think pastors have lost that conviction?
Yeah, they are afraid. And sometimes I think they're listening to the wrong people. They have listened to the wrong people. I hope today we are, we're taking a, we're seeing a shift that is happening. And I think there's a shift happening where people are waking up like Rip Van Winkle waking up after that 20 years slumber and going, Wait, what have we been doing?
Why are we doing that? Why haven't we spoken up? There's something I've something I've learned, I think, watching you over the last like. 13 years of just working under you and seeing you is that the things that you say are important. But I think a lot of people, myself, Especially, I was gonna say myself, included myself, especially.
They're scared to say it because they think that what they're communicating is: I'm important, I'm someone to be listened to. But I don't feel that from you. What you're communicating is like, hey, What I'm saying is the truth, and no one else is saying it.
So I'll say it. Even though, because a lot of people I think believe what you say, they just don't want to say it. Right. But with you, it's more like, listen. This book, this Bible, this truth is the answer.
And if no one else is going to say it, then I'm going to say it. And I think that's what draws people to your message. And I won't say I'm the only one, but unfortunately, over the past Decade or so, those numbers have dwindled of leaders who would stand up and speak. With truth and conviction. Do you think that's a millennial and onwards thing to where it's like I'm afraid to present myself as an authority?
No, I don't think so. I think over the past decade and a half, I think there was such a push from this woke culture. There was such a push for liberal values and immorality that most Even our own leaders, many times, I'm not going to name any names, so y'all can relax, they succumb to that rhetoric. We saw that. We saw in some of the things they were supporting or being silenced, silenced about.
And I was like, Why are you not speaking out? God has given you an incredible platform, and you are not saying anything. And when you do speak, you're saying things that are shocking the average common people. People in the pew. Why are you doing that?
And people would often ask me and say, So and so Or this pastor or this Christian leader said this. Or This is going on in this person that I really look up to. It's just eerily silent. What's going on? And I would just shake my head and say, I don't know.
I don't know what's going on because it's, it's. It's very disturbing. Yeah. Do you think it was? Do you so you think it was fear?
It was fear of pushback or fear of retaliation from the opposing side? I'm fear of pushback, the desire to be loved. And I'm sure there were some benefits there. Yeah. Like we can get you some following.
We can make you a big name. We can get that book published for you. We can get you on this conference circuit or this big conference. You'll be one of the featured leaders.
So I think some of these things were being offered to some of these people. You see, that's said because you want to believe that that happens in DC, but it doesn't happen within the church. I believe in the past decade and a half, it was happening in Christendom, especially in America. Wow.
Yeah. I have lost a lot of respect for some of those religious leaders. And I'm not saying I'm the one that's in God's hands. Sure. I have no desire for that.
I will do and I will speak as long as God enables me and gives me the platform. I will say it. But over the past decade and a half, I was very disappointed. Not with every religious leader. Don't misunderstand.
There were some who spoke out.
Some who stood firm in their convictions. But many did not. And it was a very. Not just disappointing, it was very hurtful. Because I looked up to these people.
Yeah. And then to go, wow. Yeah. You turned. It did seem like it was one right after the other, after the other, after the other.
Yes. You know, in America, we talked about this a couple of days ago, last week, actually, about the separation of church and state. That's one of the big things that I believe Was attacked in the past decade and a half. Like a pastor's right to speak on these things. Right.
Stay out of it. Let the experts do it. And what were the experts doing? They were, in my opinion, they were siding on the wrong side.
Well, that's what I'm saying. That's what I really respect about you. That I don't see a lot of people have the courage to do: to say, no, no, no, I am an expert. I am an authority. And it's not just because.
It's not just because of my degree or my smarts or my boldness or whatever. It's because I'm rooted in the ultimate truth. And so it's not that. I'm an authority. I'm an expert, but it's because of.
God's word. Right. And I'm s if as long as I stand on that, I can't fall. I can't fail. That's one thing that I think is is also sorely missing from pulpits.
Yeah. Because it seems like a lot of p pulpits now is like, I just want everybody needs to understand. Let me just, let me just, you know, let's come together and let's figure this out. Yeah. Whereas you're like, no, everyone needs to resist.
Right. Because there's an active force that's coming against the church. Yeah, I mean, we especially during the 2020 pandemic period, again, nobody's trying to deny. Whether there was a COVID or not, that's not the point. The point is this: many other agendas were being shoved down our throats.
Yes, that's right. And for people to stand up and say, I hear what you're saying. but church is essential. And then to have Christian leaders and even Christians, and I'm putting them in air coats, saying, You don't understand. You don't get it.
You're the problem. That. That bothered me more than anything else. It bothered me too. And you know what else bothered me that I didn't think about until just right now?
I never saw any single person crying separation of church and state when we were having sermons about critical race theory going on. Right. When it was sermons about accepting LGBTQ plus IA, whatever, when it was sermons from the pulpit, nobody ever cried, hey, that's politics. Everyone's like, oh, okay, this is nice to see. Nice to see you.
This is a new world, guys. Come on. How can you not say that? Why are you saying that's an essential? That's not an essential doctrine.
That's like a tertiary issue. Yeah. Let's focus on the main thing, which is Jesus died for us and He loves us very much. Yeah, but when conservative churches spoke out about the evils of abortion, everyone was like, That's separation in church and state. You can't talk about that.
LGBTQ, I mean, come on. Woke theories. It's okay. You can bring that into the pulpit. No problem there.
We don't need separation of churches. I didn't even realize that until just now. I was like, you use separation of church and state when you want to. Exactly. Exactly.
When it goes against your agenda. You know, you mentioned last week we were talking about this shift from where everybody seemed to be Protestant. Protestantism was like sort of the de facto national religion. Originally, it began as the established church because all the groups that came, whether to the north or to the south in those colonies, were from the Protestant background. Yes.
And then we see now in 2025 where it's like. People who are Protestant, like they may still be a majority, but they keep real quiet because they know there's a very vocal pushback against it. Right, right.
So, Protestantism has taken a hit over the centuries, these past, let's just say, 350 years. Yeah. It has taken maybe even more, has shifted. First, it was the established religion. Not state religion, but established religion.
Like these are, we're all Protestants. Whether we're Anglicans or Quakers or Baptist or Methodist or Presbyterians, we're still Protestants. Then it In the mid-1800s on, or maybe even the the the early part of the nineteenth century.
So After the Revolutionary War. Protestantism became sort of like the de facto national religion. But then there were shifts coming, okay? And these shifts came because of immigration. There were Roman Catholics coming.
They were facing persecution in Europe. There were Jewish people coming who were also being persecuted in Europe. There were some Eastern Orthodox also coming. Bottom line is Protestantism was no longer the de facto national religion. That was beginning to change.
Slowly. And so, with all these new cultures coming in, do you have more liberal theology coming in as well? Liberal theology was different.
Okay. These people who came, whether they were Roman Catholics or Jewish people or Eastern Orthodox, they didn't bring. Liberalism. Liberalism came through the academies in Europe, especially from Germany. Maybe also England.
So you have a watering down of Protestantism followed by liberal theology coming much later. Right. Gotcha. And so now you have two groups among Protestants: there is the fundamentalist, and then there are the modernists. Fundamentalists are like get people saved.
Modernists are more about let's save the culture. What I mean by culture is like, let's feed the hungry, let's lift up the drowned trunk, social justice kind of thing. And so this is that period where now Protestantism is even more fragmented. And in the nineteen sixties, John F. Kennedy was elected as the president, and he was Roman Catholic.
So now Protestants have again been sidelined. And with them, being sidelined The idea of Judeo-Christian values are also sidelined. Like the idea of Judeo-Christian values being our center, like being our foundation. Right. So around that time, around the 60s, that's when people started saying, I don't think this nation is actually founded on Judeo-Christian.
Right, right.
It goes back that far, the 60s. I guess to me, that's why I would say earlier, it goes back to like in 1947, okay? The Supreme Court sharply defined the separation of church and state.
Okay. Wow, the 40s. Yeah, in the 40s. It was going down here. I know there's probably people listening who remember the 60s.
It's like, that wasn't that long ago. But to me. But in 1962, 63, the Supreme Court decided to ban prayers in school. I remember my uncle being really upset about that. Yeah, he would talk about that when I was a kid.
Like, we used to pray in school and they took it away. And I remember that was a big thing. It was funny because I couldn't imagine being in public school. It's not funny, sad, but I couldn't imagine being in public school and having a prayer time. That was something that was just completely on.
Guess what? It's coming back. But let me also bring in the third era or the stage in sort of where Protestantism has pretty much been completely taken out. And this is known as the post-Protestant pluralist America stage. And this begins in the 60s.
Okay. This is like in 1965 with the heart seller immigration laws, which reopened the door to immigration from non-European and Asian countries.
So that had been that had been limited before?
Some of the immigration laws had limited non-European and Asian countries because they're coming from a non-Judeo-Christian background.
Okay, okay.
So, I mean, think about it: Roman Catholics. Judeo-Christian background. I mean, they're different than Protestants. Jewish people, Still have that Judeo-Brack background, right? But still, we're sort of in the same family.
But now, opening it to non-European and Asian means now you have between 1960 to 1990, 15 million immigrants came to America. Wow.
That's a lot. That's a lot. And many of them came from non-Christian countries. Country.
So they're bringing their culture and their world. Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, here's the thing: I want to also emphasize something here. The shift in America or the voices that were raised against Christianity, like separation of church and state, separation, were not necessarily raised by these Asian people.
And I'm one of them, right? But I'm Christian. Right. They were raised by people here who are liberal. It's not like people came from, say, Thailand and said, We're going to march to DC and try to take down.
This Church and state connection. By and large, these people were just looking for a better life. They're looking for a better life. Gotcha. But they're when they're coming in, there is a change in the the I w I would say the religious atmosphere.
But they're not the ones who are marching or or trying to peddle their agenda. That's happening more through people who are here, but ha have sort of over the years become more Marxist.
Socialist. See, it's crazy because I see the same thing happening today where it's our people. Right. It's like Americans, liberal Americans, who are fighting for. All these anti-Judeo-Christian values.
Also, I would say, if you add to that mix Islamic background immigration, that went from just a few hundred thousand to like five million now. That's a huge chunk.
Now, again, we want to clarify: a lot of Muslims who come to America are coming for a good life, but there is a difference in their worldview.
Okay. Now, Nowadays, you're seeing that, especially since those horrendous attacks against Israel in 2023, you're seeing some of these Muslims speaking out and marching or wearing that Palestinian scarf and all that stuff. But most of the time, most Muslims are like, I just want to live a good life, leave me alone, I just want to do my thing. I'm still a Muslim, but this is what I want to do. But now you're seeing some who are, and I think these are more like the second generation as well involved in this.
And so, all that to say. With Liberalism from people here and with uh this multiculturalism from people coming in, all that put together, unfortunately. Protestant Christianity, or even just say Judeo-Christian values, were like shoved out. Yeah. And with that, God was.
Shoved out. Out of the public square.
Sort of a sort of a bleak ending, and we are sort of running out of time. But maybe we can do one more show just on how we get from that, which is kind of great the way it's structured. Like we get from here where it's the lowest point, the darkest moment, but to now how we get to today, where things seem to be on the uprise. Oh, hugely. Yeah, yeah, let's do one more show tomorrow on that.
Guys, thank you so much for listening with us. Dr. Shah, thank you for being here. Make sure you guys join us tomorrow, same time, same station. We're going to be diving into another great topic right here on the Clearview Today show.
Thanks again to our sponsors for helping us with produce today's episode and making it possible, particularly Mighty Muscadine and LaBlue Ultra Pure Water. Thank you so much for sponsoring the show. And don't forget, you guys can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes or Spotify, anywhere you get your podcasting content. And you can always support us financially on AvadanShah.com. Lots of great things happening on the horizon.
We love you guys and we'll see you tomorrow on Clearview Today. Yeah.
