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Prophecy Derangement Syndrome

Understanding The Times / Jan Markell
The Truth Network Radio
July 4, 2020 8:00 am

Prophecy Derangement Syndrome

Understanding The Times / Jan Markell

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July 4, 2020 8:00 am

Jan spends the hour withPastor Brandon HolthausandPastor Tom Hughes.They discuss Prophecy Derangement Syndromethe loathing or mocking of eschatology heavily coming from within the church. They play clips to back this up. How did this happen to this glorious message of hope?

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Doesn't want to know the future.

One fourth of the Bible talks about his exciting time in your life really is but said every year you got people in certain years. They make headlines promoting our 2011 Harold camping 75. We have six elites, and other years, 81 and think positively) that affect one of our design. The false prophets and false teachers coming up in telling people with respect to the time of the end when it's gonna happen when it doesn't happen when people that the Bible must be wrong. Thank you for joining. Understanding the times radio Jim Markel radio for the run today. Jan spends the hour with two popular pastors discussing prophecy derangement syndrome. What is it and how do we get hit with how and when did it. In fact, the church must join Jan and just when was the last time in your church. You heard the pastor speak on Bible prophecy. Some churches went 23 years. Pastors not mention anything about Bible prophecy was the last time your pastor discuss the messianic kingdom, the thousand year rule of Christ was the last time you heard a sermon on the Antichrist or the false prophet.

When was the last time you heard about the great apostasy of the church was happening right in front of our very eyes. When is the last time your Bible study. Discuss the end times when was the last time your church invited guest speaker to teach in the end time subjects, the teaching of prophecy is at an all-time low, which at a time where the most activities are happening and welcome to the program. Is there a person alive who doesn't want to know about the future. It's why the paranormal flourishes. The occultists promised to tell you your fortune. Well, we have far more than any occultist hands.

We have the word of God and the Bible is specific about all of our futures that Scripture tells us there's coming a time. The latter years. When this topic will be received heavily with mocking and scoffing that the closer we get to the end of the church age and the more relevant this topic becomes, the more people both inside and outside the church will frankly make fun of it will question the motives of those who are teaching it will tell us that we are majoring in minors and that we are dispensers of doom or they will minimize its importance or the teacher different version of eschatology. So what about our glorious future could possibly be categorized as doom can imagine I was kind of channel surfing recently on YouTube and I came upon a prophecy update produced by Brandon Holt house of Rock Harbor Church in Bakersfield, California contact a bit later in reminder that Brandon Holt house was with me for the two-part series on the worship wars last winter, but the title of the presentation that he gave online was called the prophecy derangement syndrome. So how did this glorious good news come to be labeled prophecy derangement syndrome heard this term before with heard about Trump derangement syndrome, which by the way, says terrible term but nonetheless that's how I can get acquainted with the term but prophecy derangement syndrome.

Joining me for the hour include Pastor Brandon Holt house and Pastor Tom Hughes 412 church will give more info later, gentlemen. Welcome to the program later to mention Brandon.

Let's go back to the title prophecy derangement syndrome.

You come up with at an angle.

As I watched your presentation and it becomes obvious we have a problem in the church that your topic title was very catchy yeah because as we have seen the Trump derangement syndrome. The last 2 1/2 yearly work. People are acting in a general hysteria and as it's labeled this Trump derangement syndrome is an inability to distinguish between legitimate policy differences. Okay that's on the political level, but I thought about that and I thought, look how these people in our society are acting within a broader to the church and I said, look at what the naysayers are doing as far as those who don't support prophecy that don't believe in prophecy what they're doing to those who do hold a prophetic view of the future and I saw similar activities obsolete. Married with second Peter chapter 3 where there's going to be this scoffing that comes in the last days, and what caught me was I saw the same kind of mentality among believers against prophecy and what it means is that instead of just saying hey we agree to disagree with you on your view of prophecy or whatnot. There was an outright hostility of an outright vitriolic attitude towards anyone who holds premillennialism or even a pre-tribulation will view and they weren't agreeable. They weren't able to say, will that your opinion, that's my opinion will agree to disagree. They were hostile and so I said, that's gotta be similar to this Trump derangement where it's irrational that if you hold the futuristic view of prophecy. It incites anger start name-calling and so I thought, that's gotta be what Peter was talking about the gentlemen, this is the new normal. My please it's still hard to accept because the three of us know that we are presenting truth and it's difficult time.

He was to accept this as the new normal. It is difficult to accept the normal. But if Brandon for what Peter warned of. So is another sign of the day for which we live. Another one that we could add to the many find regarding the second coming of Christ, and I can say this also Jan by far the majority of people, give me online or write letters to mirror whatever to better gift Bible prophecy by far the majority of our people who go to a Christian in name church and even pastors.

People don't know the Lord seemed genuinely interested in what the world of gold on your live. The majority of the problems I have are from church people don't like Bible prophecy interesting. I did a presentation couple years ago on how the blessed hope became the blessed hope and I talked briefly and Brandon you did to you briefly about the movie that came out in 2013 which was called rapture Palouse a number stepping outside the church now because now were in Hollywood. But even this film, which there is great portions of it online as Jesus Christ came back in his second coming. He was shot out of the sky by these crazy people who were making fun even though they were going for the tribulation, etc. and I thought coolant. For instance, blow Allah or Mohammed or a Hindu God out of the sky they only do this to the representative of our faith.

Jesus Christ or the theology that we hold which is truth here but they would never do that to all or Mohammed ever right you know it's funny that you say that because Jesus told in his day that the kingdom is not divided against itself, and you tend to find out what Satan hates you tax yes exactly, not is not attacking Hinduism is not attacking Islam. He supported him and in fact to what is you go after true biblical faith and the rapture. He goes after the futuristic view of the second coming in the tribulation and so it's funny when you see the Hollywood mop. They mock specifically at what Satan hates. I find that very enlightening to see where Satan targets things and what he's targeting. I think back to what even Tom said I expect this from unbelievers different exercise or job description. I get it what's shocking me now. That's right if it's coming from Christians. I want to play a clip here and I'm going to do this throughout the hour and folks if you just join me. You're listening to understand the times radio Jan Markel here.

I have on the line, both from California.

Pastor Tom Hughes 412 church San Jacinto and Pastor Brandon Holt house Rock Harbor Church Rock Harbor mentally clip of Frankie Schaefer, Frank Schaeffer is the son Francis and Edith Schaefer we are talking here heavily this hour that Christians who are mocking or just plain have a distorted or shall I say different view of the end times, but in this case, I want you to hear the hardened heart. The man who grew up with the parents of Francis and Edith Schaefer and his opinion of the glorious news that the king is coming, but you have to understand that the evangelical Christian movement in America latched onto 1/19 century concept that was hatched by someone called John Nelson Darby who said that Jesus could not come back until Israel had been restored as a nation peopled by Jews in Jerusalem was the capital. This is not traditional Christian teaching going back into the ages even of the Protestant church. You know this was not a concern of Martin Luther or any Roman Catholic or the Greek Orthodox or anyone else. If you want update to the present. When I was a kid with my parents and their ministry of vertebrae.

We had a number of Christian leaders come by and how Lindsay had written a book called the late great planet Earth in which he predicted the end times coming in 1980s. He said it's now possible because Israel has been restored and then others came back and said none of Jesus can come back at because Jerusalem is not restored. Fast forward to the 16 books and four films that you had that came out of the left behind series written by a friend of mine Jerry Jenkins and his sidekick, co-author that wrote it with him and you've got 16 million copies sold that. Essentially, our total fiction. I'm to give you an analogy. This is as if the twilight zone had been taken as gospel by some religious group and they were going back through old episodes and basing an entire cultic kind of religion on it now, you could laugh at this. Or you could dismiss it as craziness. The problem is these folks have direct access to the president of the United States and he owes them the white evangelical vote is literally the only people hanging in there with them. Their approval numbers for him are dropping, but not as fast as the rest of the country so that this decision. I'm sad to say, from my point of view takes 1/19 century cultic twisting of Christian tradition teaching, it updates it through these crazy books called the left behind series that people have read by the hundreds of millions 60 million copies sold, you configure 100 million people more read them.

This is what evangelicals have come to believe. They think it's part of their traditional religion.

It is not, and I am sure millions have come to faith in Jesus Christ.

As a result of the left behind series, and by the way, the sidekick spoken of in denigrating matter of course, the late Tim LaHaye, none of you are aware that clip by Frankie Schaefer are not the first time I heard yeah I've heard Frankie Schaefer and that's his basic strawman argument. He knocked down but Frankie Schaefer apparently either hasn't study church history, or he is ignoring that Jesus converted to the Orthodox Church. I believe he knows what he believes anymore. The thing is I remember Tommy nice used in charge of the pretrip research Center put out a $10,000 challenge to anyone that says that it's all sure with John Nelson Darby uses all prove you wrong that you came way before. In fact, he goes I'll prove it. He came in the at least the second century we start finding evidence of that, even in the first century of premillennialism and no one is taking up this challenge. He said I'll wager $10,000 if you can prove me wrong and no one is ever taken up the challenge of the like.

The strawman argument of John Nelson Darby St. it started with him you go back till he is him was the dominant view of the early church, which believe in the thousand year reign of Christ at the second coming. What happened premillennialism was part of the early church.

I don't know what he's talking about Justin Martyr hell to PPS with the disciple Polycarp was a disciple of John held it during this delay owns and other notable church fathers all held this. What happened was in church history. The allegorical spiritual method of the text came in from the Alexandrian school in origin and then Augustine championed it and categorized all of eschatology Brandon Holt house. I wanted reference millennialism just a little later, but right now I still want to stick with some personalities and what they are teaching because you bring up another name I want to refer to Brandon. That's Mark Driscoll in his book vintage, where he says we spend most of our time trying to find out how to avoid pain and evil of this world by reading down books about the rapture just hoping to get out and then he goes on. He says this is not a message from Jesus, but rather from a concocted cunning serpent and then he mocks those who want to leave this trailer park of a planet before God's tornado touches down on all sinners so there we have another mocker. Then he calls prophecy watchers like us. 90 and time prophecy Kaczynski's Brandon explain the Kaczynski part what that couldn't get you know, the unit bomber terrorist who murdered three people maimed about 23 others in an 18 year campaign so Mark Driscoll again can't agree to disagree but what he has to do is relate us to the unit bomber and you're like are you serious you're going there, so there's this coffee is what Peter talked about. They just cannot hold that someone else would have a different opinion than them and that that trump derangement or proxy derangement syndrome. They can't see another view there's not another narrative out there. Apparently, then we have the religious left, users got Tony Campolo he calls dispensationalism in the rapture. A weird little form of fundamentalism. He kinda blames us for the state of the world which is a mess that Brian McLaren, who hates this as well. Says we have an eschatology of abandonment. The religious left is just engage in all sorts of troublemaking but again coming after us for our theology of the end times will come from the religious left it coming from the religious right. I go back to the gospel. We were too fearful to protect the most from the religious left of the effect of the religious right of affairs. So we fell for to where we are and we look at it because there's no valid argument against what we believe regarding the second coming of Christ morph into accusations of mockery exactly what Brandon is talking about with the trump derangement syndrome when you can't argue with not accepting offered Tommy. I folks out there, why not of you can't argue against it.

For behind the keyboard and fire off false accusation of the fire of mockery and scoffing for you go to your video places wherever you want to post them and you just mocked of golf.

That's all they're doing is mocking this coffee because they have no solid place to stand on what the truth actually teaches another cliff here and again as a play this clip Dr. John Piper, certainly not slamming him. I am just presenting the fact that here is a prominent mission leader, teacher, author who is going to say in the short clip that he just does not see in the Bible Jesus coming back to times. In other words, he just does not see a rapture in the church. Good question from a listener named Nick that's jumping to this podcast. I know this is a huge debate but I would love your thoughts how we times is Jesus coming back is he coming back in the rapture. According to first Thessalonians 416, 17, and then returning a second time to defeat Satan according to Revelation 1911 to 21. Esther John is Christ returning one more time or two more times. My understanding of the New Testament is that Jesus promised he would return and that in this returning he would do a final rescue for those who are trusting him and a final judgment to those who are not believing in him. I don't think there are two comings of Christ in the future, but only one.

Most of those who believe that Christ will come twice believe that the first returned the first of the two is the coming of the Lord to snatch away the church out of the world, call the rapture and in the question to snatch away the church back to heaven for seven years. Usually, while the great tribulation happens on earth and then a final scan. The second stage return of the Lord to establish his kingdom and I grew up in a home in the church that believe that you call the pre-tribulation rapture view because there is coming of Christ pre-or before the tribulation so that the church is taken out and spared that time of great suffering from the Lord. At the end of the age.

But the more I studied this for myself, even as a teenager I can remember thinking about this I just could not find two comings in the future for the Christian church while Dr. John Piper influences literally millions of folks through his books and the other means he has of getting the gospel out just disappointing to hear him say that that he just cannot see two returns of the Lord Jesus when they move on gentleman I want to make a reference to something you said Brandon because you're often accused of being too political. They talk about this topic but Bible prophecy is going to converge with politics.

I couldn't agree with you more. First of all supporting Israel and be seen as political but it is really theological yeah exactly and that's what everyone who studies prophecy understand if it's going to intersect in geopolitics. It's inevitable. If you're going to have a cashless system. If you're going to have a one world government. If you're going to have one world religion capital, geopolitics, and so the fact is, when you're in property you have to go into that arena. Do I get into politics that don't concern itself with probably no I do not, but yes I might talk about Israel. Of course Mike to talk about. Like for instance pressing thing right now in America is our border.

How does that fit into prophecy will were going to a one world government. They want a borderless country of all donations you have to talk about the border from a prophetic standpoint and so yes, it intersect. But the thing is I get that all the time as a smokescreen to people who do not want to engage in the dialogue. Oh, you're just being political left to stay with the gospel. Well, sorry, Jesus predicted all this would happen, and you are eliminating. I don't owe 26.8% of the Bible. If you don't want to talk about it because you think it's too political and that's a huge amount of the Bible. It's over a source of the Bible, Tom Hughes, you just had a prophecy conference that you sponsored it in Indian Wells, California, and you had tremendous turnout about 15, 16 speakers, I think telling you what was this feedback you got from your attendees. My hunch is they long to hear this topic and perhaps their church is marginalizing at what I be right handed, overwhelmed with joy that we have, yes, it was fantastic. However, almost everybody I talked to apart from the people who attend our church and judgeships church, primarily the people who came were our church doesn't teach the I asked my pastor about it.

He didn't want to get into it. I asked my pastor why the Bible prophecy for you for that difficult for me to try to get other people from our church to join the come out there with me that with the majority of the conversation they are giving that they're asking people within their church in the church. The one talking about it so I had an event such as yours or mine is well folks, they gathered their it's kind of like a little bit of the family reunion of like-minded, then great teachers were for theft everything so really follow teaching you could not take someone have failed to open up the work. The tinfoil hat you know there to you. I watched part of an online quality of teachers of either of well educated who do are you for the truth of the second coming of Christ with those who were in the seminary debating them but overall great. However not taught in the pulpits.

Not all put something obviously brand in the mind and from oh yes, there are some out there and I hear from people who sound wonderful Bible preaching prophecy preaching church, unfortunately, is probably 1% of the emails I get say that the other 99% are pretty frustrated. Brandon, you said something in your update and again I'm drawing some of my conversation today with Pastor Brandon Holt House Rock Harbor Church in Bakersfield Rock Harbor Rock Harbor for more information. Pastor Tom Hughes 412 church in San Jacinto hope for our hope and drawing some of my conversation based on Brandon's recent update call prophecy derangement syndrome and you made a statement in that presentation.

Brandon is said that the church person who doesn't track with the things were talking about here this hour is generally going to be just a little bit, but shall we say let's be generous, not really in tune with what's happening in the world and that is so true, and that is such a tragedy among the sons of Issachar were men who understood the times and we desperately need to today without some of this information. Folks there in the dark they are and there's an old saying that I've used before and this is what people need to watch for. It's not what the pastor saying it's what he's not saying that sometimes hard to discern because the pastor could be saying things correctly and teaching correctly. Like I said in the prophecy update went the last 70 pastor talk about the antichrist and if he hasn't another problem. Okay, what is this created it is created a Christian mindset that nothing out there is going on were in a safe, protected bubble in our Christian needs and our Christian churches. And please don't tell me anything bad is happening out there. Jan what I have seen, especially with the younger generation. I'm looking a broad brush. This baton can speak to this.

Even at his conferences. Glad people go to his conference and tell me there was an age issue. There, the younger generation are very emotionally fragile that we talk about the millenniums that need safe spaces puppy dogs. Plato, when they get offended.

We have created in the church in America, the same mentality that if you tell me of gloom and doom. You tell me Jesus coming back and this can be a bloodbath as he slaughters the antichrist and his armies and the blood to be as high as the horses bridle quiet now as a Christian need a safe space I need a puppy dog to pet I need Plato because that upsets my reality what's happened is the pastors have failed to do what I call reality preaching there pretending everyone safe in a bubble, nothing bad is happening and you can live your greatest life now. That's not in reality, and it creates an emotional fragile Christian.

I think another perspective that has kicked the church here in the last sooner than 10 years for sure in front left to pick up on this to the side of my break here but is the whole push for social justice and how that has affected the church today and that is turned the church off of certain topics including one that were talking about now. Tom talk to me about that for a couple minutes or so to give an interesting topic when you look at it from the standpoint of the gospel. We understand with both courts say understand we are to be doing good work. However, the problem is with the social gospel if it puts social justice ahead of the truth of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and the trumpet in the fifth take Judith and you think Jesus when he was anointed by Mary and she anoints them with her flask of costly perfume. Judith is upset if it will all of this perfume could have been sold and given to the poor. The problem was Judith with about both appeared to be about social justice, but is really about himself and he with you financially putting the good works above the worship of Jesus Christ Jesus for PaperPort.

You can have with you always measure not all give you to work out that way in the church of done that and I see this more than I do anything else if anything was happening within the church. They do not want to give the gospel because they're afraid of offending people, but they know if they talk about love and good works will attract all kinds of people in the store will give them the gospel gospel itself tell people that they are sinners and they need to repent and is not a popular message wasn't popular with chief of David. Either you crucified, if not popular today, but must be given. People need to be safe for you look at it the social justice movement in America. If you but the same time. I'll save the I have a group of high schoolers that are church building opening that my health to do a prophecy Bible study at our house there inviting their friends from high school that are from our day from her claim genders over to her house and I'm thinking we can't help but other churches are doing, but will press forward and hopefully other churches will jump on board for milk were losing all young people took the millennial but even the high schoolers. If we don't move forward with the truth when I come back Tom Hughes. I want to talk for a minute or two that your article you wrote couple years ago now, maybe more. Five reasons pastors don't speak about Bible prophecy will just hit them in bullet point fashion when I get back is a very very intriguing annexed a reference this on air before consent. Article made swift across the Internet anyway kind that sucks in just a minute don't go away if olive tree ministries and other setting the times radio has made a difference in your life.

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Visit our online store at all of the olive use gospel call a central time. 763559 763-559-4440. How much more about what the Bible really far between. There should be a lot more ginger hopefully the left leg press forward.

We love hearing from you. Write us at all of three ministries and Jan Martel Box 1452, Maple Grove, MN 55311, Box 14520, Minnesota 55311 call a central time at 763-559-4444 763-559-4444 because it's summer is mainly slowed our mail Jan Martel Brendan whole house testing time views close off on this topic. The organized church will turn away from the faith or apostasy. Jesus said when the Son of Man comes only find the faith on the earth. What we see today. We were doing here. God bless, Tom, God bless this church people watching. We are in a minority. As far as Christians are concerned worldwide. We are looked at as the lunatic fringe.

Because we happen to believe we still believe the Bible, we still believe it's true, we still believe Jesus is Lord we still believe God meant what he said so what a month and like one author said we still believe that the same profits in the same prophecies that predict rightly the first time Jesus came in the same sentence of the sentence.

Thereafter talking about the second coming mother were right the first time we have no reason to believe they won't be right the second time to correct.

So we take them seriously. We are in the minority, and getting more and more in the minority factor got another story tomorrow. Again, 11 hours and I don't get Thales's one of the churches Church of Scotland. The get member what is now having a ceremony Church of England to get is a ceremony now for the people out of themselves as transgender since there be a spiritual ceremony now for transgender is now and that has been widely hailed as something wonderful that the church is open-minded to do that.

There is yet Church of England. I believe children do that we get to that story tomorrow to so all these things going on in these two people are supposed to be standing up for the gospel. Standing up for the truth, yet they're doing everything in opposite of the truth that was done Stewart Calvary Chapel and appreciate down.

He's an author commentator has some great ministry online. We are a minority. We are the lunatic fringe.

I never thought I would agree with this statement like that, but I do have to agree with it. Let me just reset the stage here listening to understanding the times radio I have on the line, both from California pastor Brandon Holt house Rock Harbor Church in Bakersfield pastor Tom Hughes 412 church San Jacinto pastor Tom Don Stewart was speaking at your church. There making that little statement.

We are a minority, a lunatic fringe. I so resonated with that.

To be honest half my listeners resonated with that we are to email, and you know all about so evident and so true also say that you mentioned about Brandon and I are from California and for all of your viewers provide up to question a lot at our property copper Don Stewart from California objectives very stagnant, Jane. It's right California label full of not thinking Brandon you can pick your soul involved in the fight pastors out here that have risen up to the fight and you times when you're in this myth you real life. You can swim with the muck and you just enjoy the flop or you fight against it, and I see that happening here with my friends went out for your faith without putting up with this granted the tough fight if unpleasant, but we move forward and we prep for because we recognize we really are my nor the minority helped drive up that's exactly right. Friend who keep saying I'm a dinosaur I'm just a dinosaur. Why because we believe the truth maybe so Brandon you bring this out and again. Both of these gentlemen do wonderful updates on YouTube. You can just go to YouTube and type in their names to prophecy updates that are just fantastic. And that's how I am playing off of one of those Brandon Holt houses most of very recent one anyway. Prophecy derangement syndrome and you bring out Brandon Holt house that there's one theology and we talked about it now for half an hour that is continually attacked, mocked, made fun of the righted put down marginalized and it happens to be the truth now is millennialism mocked and made fun of Noah's post millennialism no kingdom now now Prater is him mannerism teaches all prophecy happened already in 70 A.D. the full prioress would say Jesus Christ came back in 70 A.D. a partial prioress would say he came back in spirit in 70 A.D., but are any of these theologies, gentlemen. Are they marginalized at least to the degree that dispensationalism gets hammered on a daily basis. I don't see that far as any pastor dispensationalism.

They hammer dispensationalism, and their views are coddled and circles of academia. It reminds me a lot of times of the religious leaders in Jesus day is almost the same pattern as the majority view is coddled and academia coddled in the churches and wherever the minority view by Princess in the first century of the suffering servant that was not taught it was taught at the Messiah was going to come sit on David's throne and vanquish the Romans that was popular, and so the minority view was the suffering servant. And so you shall see the same pattern repeating itself.

The minority view is not held by the large group of religious leaders. Academia whatnot, and we become that remnant group that theme of the remnant is carried all through the Bible.

There's always a small minority that get that understand it but the majority is typically wrong and I'm fine, okay, being in that small minority because it is the only view that take the Bible literally.

Literally. And that's key is going to be a literal tribulation, a literal Antichrist. Israel's very key role literal Israel. The literal Jerusalem that he's returning to in the literal 1000 year millennial reign of Jesus Christ with the hundred and 44,000 Jewish evangelists evangelizing during that seven year tribulation with the absence of the church during that tribulation.

All that sucks is part of what's known as dispensational theology, which we believe is the truth. Only point is here. This is the theology which represents the truth that is getting hammered on a daily basis, you want to add to this elective Matthew to one place. For example, Matthew chapter 16 Jesus challenges the religious right religious leaders and the challenge of the menu for what you think you can look at the sky and you know for threatening you can note there can be a storm or not to be a storm but you look at the sign and yet you ignore them regarding my first coming. The exact same thing is happening with the second coming of Christ.

So many from the religious right are saying they can look at the fine they can look at the exact same thing for all of us do it. We can look at the Bible fate of this points to the point that people talk about this revelation for that Daniel. For that we can fit. However you talk to religious right. Regarding the second coming of Christ and for everything to be willfully ignorant of Peter put it up to ignore the fight, they will. They don't really apply the allegorical or whatever and so we have the minority as it was in the days of Jesus first coming.

So it's a repeat of the same thing regarding the second coming of Christ. But there are those who chose to look if they know this really is the Messiah. When he first came minority, and again I it's repeating itself with the second coming, one play, one more click here and it happens to be my Blanche man he can aggress and he's asked by a caller. Where's the rapture in the Bible now sucks on that plane these clips to say.

Listen to this false teacher not doing that. Really, that's not my interest. I'm trying to show you what some of the voices out there are saying they may disagree with what myself and my two guests are saying were just offering them something that you might give thought to and I think that, but frankly the Bible answer man program is probably ministered to a lot of people over time, but this is what Hank believes about. For instance, the nation of Israel here and as the caller says where's the rapture in the Bible.

Let's just hear what Hank has to say it's not.

So that's the whole point. The point is it something that is imposed on the Scripture.

The notion is a very new notion in church history, it's 1/19 century notion that was popularized by John Nelson Darby and it comes with the presupposition that God has two distinct people and therefore he has two distinct plans for the two distinct people and he has two distinct phases of the second coming, and two distinct destinies. This however is an imposition on Scripture because the truth of that is, God has only always had one chosen people. One covenant community beautifully connected by the cross and illustrated by a cultivated olive tree in Paul's letter to the Romans.

The point here is that all those who are followers of Jesus Christ are the one chosen people, and this is part of the cross as well, because all that. Look forward to Christ prior to the cross are God's covenant chosen people in the coming chosen people are made up of people from every tongue and language and nation and people.

You're not a son of Abraham because of some genealogical construction. You are a son of Abraham because you believe in the God of Abraham. Okay so the church then becomes the chosen people. I do find that troubling.

I have to admit that I think Brandon and one of the things I picked up one again in your presentation online is sort of the speeding up of the train of replacement theology and you actually cited in your presentation, something that the Evangelical Free Church has done here very recently folks as we sort of highlight the free church. Honestly, just about every denominations come through some kind of twisting and turning right now. Brandon help us understand because they voted here in the last when I was in June to remove premillennial from their statement of faith. That's huge because that again involves the literal interpretation of end time issues. I was a member of the free for 10 years is a wonderful wonderful evangelical church in the Minneapolis area.

Talk to me why this is so serious. I think as you watch denomination after denomination Association after Association fall to this. I think what we're seeing is what we call in the business terms mission will creep DEV free church of America had its mission.

It had its statement of faith. At one point when they made their statement of faith. Premillennialism was an essential belief to so they voted recently to rid of that and to allow now. If you are prouder us all. Millennial list replacement theology. Whatever you now can be part of this DEV free church of America, and this is where you see denomination for denomination leave their mission statement leave their theology and open the door for more used to come in and unfortunately I've seen with other denominations.

The minute you open this door to the allegorical or spiritual method of interpretation your opening the door to eventual heresy that that's where it leads. And I'm not saying that everyone that's an all millennial list as a heretic and not saying that.

But when you can spiritualize before the Bible what's going to prevent you from spiritualizing the virgin birth or something else that's essential and that's what we see happening.

It happened in church history. So that's what it's because of concern of watching DEV free church do this and not hold the line to its essential beliefs.

Yes, because what they've done is they replace the word premillennial return of Jesus Christ with glorious return of Jesus Christ offhand that does not sound so bad. I think here average church attendee that would can baby go right by them that this is opening the door to the allegorical understanding of the last days.

It certainly opening the door. Spiritualizing it is you said it certainly going to likely at least in some cases disinherit Israel Tom Hughes.

This would be the troubling thing. If you take that approach with any part of the Bible have a huge problem if the Bible prophecy.

So if it allegorical speaking regarding the second coming of Christ, the pretty EV argument to make them both allegorical regarding the first coming of Christ really leave Jesus. That Jesus died for the entire world. So the whole world of faith even if they don't trust in Christ admit at what point do not start to look at it allegorically. I was reading an article, it was up at actually in the New York Times sometime back by very well-known seminary professor who both of you would recognize the name of any talking about prophecies regarding second coming of Christ in first.

Both Loney of chapters 4, five, if the whole thing is just poetic and then he went on to say anywhere you find these types of writings by Paul there always poetic in the way you know the because of the things that they're talking about and that he fit.

However, the rest of the chapters.

You can tell they're not poetic thought.

This gave really academically and yet he chooses to look at all pathogens regarding the coming of Christ to be poetic, but this is horrible because the door that opened this to you open the door to his friends that you open it up to hear what you start going down that I think you also open to this is a topic close to my heart is you open it up to marginalizing Israel. Israel's end time role Israel's importance in the Bible, Old Testament and New Testament past present future. In the course the devil would love that Israel is the key to everything in the last days. Let's marginalize everything about her. Tom and Brandon hold house as we said before we even started taping. We talked here for the last few minutes about the E free church. Again, I been a member. 10 years love the denomination they just made a turn in June. That's not the best turn remove premillennial from their statement of faith Latin.

Many denominations are making some mistakes and for that matter Tom Hughes. There are some issues within Calvary Chapel. No denomination is perfect today Brandon, let me ask you how off-base can a church be, and you still keep going. Question in California.

We see a lot of churches off-base. Whether it's putting up rainbow flags or all illegal immigrants are welcome signs and the thing is, that doesn't happen overnight.

It starts with somebody in leadership.

Opening the door. That's how it always starts someone has infiltrated inside the church.

Satan infiltrates through person they get into leadership and in that door start opening and as you know, it gets wider and wider. And before you know it you're in full-blown apostasy, full-blown heresy and a lot of these churches like you see the United Methodist cities denomination are rumbling because of the rank apostasy. Just flat out rank apostasy so it doesn't end well. If you open that door and that's what we see the demise of church attendance and participation here in America is my all time. The client say and there's a reason why because the people sitting in that pew don't believe the Bible moves on to Tom's article folks are listening to understanding the times radio and Jan Markel. I have on the line, both from California. Pastor Tom Hughes 412 church San Jacinto, California. You heard them on this program before as well as you heard Pastor Brandon hold house from Rock Harbor Church in Bakersfield, California Esther Brandon hold house and I stirred up a hornets nest last winter when we tackled church music music in the worship wars double programs this past winter and in analyzing what's gone haywire in the music industry. Christian music has been brought into the church. Some of the music brought into the church, not the most sound, but that was last winter we did that the time he was. You did write a very popular article and let's discuss. At least for a few minutes anyway. Five reasons pastors don't wish to speak on Bible prophecy coming of the five bullet points and we can talk briefly about each one, number one, they don't understand it.

Number two, they fear offending members of the congregation numbers three people will be scared. Number four people might not tithe if they think were close to the end and number five fear of looking like the Looney Tunes French which is very legitimate. Let me start with number one Tom Hughes they don't understand it and you write this looks just read He says maybe you serve as a pastor and you believe we live near the time of Christ return that you don't feel qualified to teach on such a large subject. Ask yourself who qualified you to teach the Bible at all. The Lord did is calling is his equipping if he called you to be a pastor. He will equip you to teach all of the Bible. Well, Tom, that does sound good in shoring and all of that we still got a lot of listening folks right now are thinking I am just not qualified. If you're called God will equip you same way of limited in article I had a call from a friend who, pastor of Calvary Chapel never taught Bible prophecy before he follows you involved a lot of different people and he said I don't understand the particular past due people in my congregation want to know.

I don't know how to teach so I told him I said there are great help like that. I have help online. Other pastors that you know our teachers. But you know better followed.

You can fold so God will equip us with the subject itself can be overwhelming, even to a pastor. Brandon will test about yeah you have to dig into the work within the book of Revelation self to think that one book only book of the Bible.

The promise of the thing to those who hear, read and work a blessing for why, which was a pastor want to deprive yourself from that blessing and deprive your people so you get into it, you study it, and there are great help online to help the pastor to help the late future and help the person to go to church help through their deeply great teachers. Jan you have a host of them put you Brandon. I have my website and people listening can find them there. Teaching health point number two the seer sending members of the congregation in you right time in today's church pastors often feel more like referees than teachers.

People find offense in so many things know how true that is. The pastor becomes gun shy ministry leaders due to by the way, maybe, without realizing it, he begins to preach in ways he thinks will be least likely to offend other pastors see preaching as a means of getting people to feel good.

People who feel good will want to have that feeling again. So they come back. Caffeine makes people feel good to the church is not Starbucks. Okay time I so get it when you help the reader understand that pastors become gun shy there in so many conflicts. Why would they want to take on another conflict, eschatology, difficult to watch the watch and pray watch and be ready at pastors Brandon and I both know we are watchmen, Jan, your watch woman and therefore supposed to do it of being obedient to his word if he felt to watch and be ready. Therefore, we should do that and for computer even attest to the need to be OPV up to to pay attention to the Bible prophecy point number three. People will be scared in the new right just reading the paragraphs from each bullet point Bible prophecy can be unnerving. Hollywood makes money scaring people so it loves to use apocalyptic themes, the truth can be scary isn't it better to be scared and prepared and happy and condemned for those who know the Lord. Understanding the end times helps us to be faithful instead of fearful okay time yet you're dead right and people can be scared they are scared and if they delve into this topic. They can be even more scared but I hope to get to be prepared actually generate a personal really willing to understand Bible prophecy will actually become more hopeful because we get how it can emphasize in themselves are scary, but you have told us what don't look like. However, you know, when you see these things begin to take place. Look out for your redemption draws near foot actually very hopeful and encouraging and you will prepare yourself even if Brandon said earlier in the program. Point number four people might not time if they think were close to the end and then you write the study.

The end times does not cause people to play selfish concerns ahead of Christ. It does the opposite. If your congregation believes the Lord is coming soon they will be less self-centered and more God centered will be better. Church members better husband's wise parents, etc. they will be less likely to build up their treasures selfishly, and more likely to give generously, it will become more in eternity minded, and less temporarily minded, good point them rightly understood Bible prophecy will encourage people to order treasure have inferior flicks are so many different ways you can do it and not just think of me financially but in holiness, good works, sharing the gospel so people will become heavenly minded in the right fifth of the work that is not taught in our people going to have their minds set on the thing or if it's just the wrong way. The missiology's that are indeed leading folks astray and point number five and this is really important, I think, particularly since will perhaps late 1980s when some frenzy people turned up at your Whisenant Harold camping and others fear of looking like the Looney Tunes fringe false and un-biblical teachers of prophecy abound. Sadly, so true there on the radio and television and they are on the Internet but these are not reasons to avoid teaching eschatology or prophecy errors. Exaggerations and charlatans are among the best reasons for teaching the real thing. Your congregation is going to hear a lot of goofy stuff, you need to teach them the truth so they won't be vulnerable to the lies.

I really appreciate number five Tom which we just covered here because so true and mean in the last 2030 years.

The Looney Tunes fringe has been out in big time with their banners and their false teachings are everywhere effect pastor come into the pulpit for, originally with the intent to teach the truth because our false doctrines out there, how much more in our age.

When you have crazy things on YouTube and all over the place about Bible prophecy of those who condemned the teaching of Bible prophecy plus the loony stuff that them how much more we need to be about giving the truth of what the Bible really says regarding the second coming of Christ. If that if there be a full fuel for between teachers.

There should be a lot more teachers and hopefully will be inspired to fill you know what these are the left. They've lived through this and look forward Jesus is coming and that she was your entire article.

I'm sure it can be accessed online the five reasons pastors will not teach Bible prophecy, then having to be on your website than you guidance. I will make sure to ponder I see it every known the website so I know from the Google it will find it but I'll get it onto our website sooner and I did Google it and it did come up instantly so you can do that sucks five reasons pastors will not teach in Bible prophecy gentlemen I'm down literally to about two minutes Brandon Unser on the ball back in your court going to kinda wrap things up. I might have a comment or two, but very little time left. But I want to finish on is the effect of prophecy. If you do hold a futuristic view of literal view of Scripture.

Prophecy is linked to three major areas in the Bible for believers on a personal level number one it affects your holiness.

If you hold to a futuristic view its link to personal holiness because you will prepare yourself to meet the Lord. Second Peter talks about this even second Timothy show you're going to be more holy, more moral in your life in your Christian walk.

Because of that.

The second thing, in effect, is your good works, or what we call ministry your ministry your personal ministry were all responsible. That's why Jesus gave the parable of the talents.

A parable demean us any talk about who is the faithful and wise servant. It's of those who watch and those who watch he connects it to ministry that were about our father's business and then he gives a warning I will come as a thief to you and I don't want to find you naked just to paraphrase him that that have brands them, and that nakedness at Jesus. Referring to is linked to Revelation 19 date for the fine linen represents the righteous acts of the saints, so he wants to be prepared for his return. We must be about ministry so that we are not found naked and in the third area is holding fast the doctrine Revelation to talk about this to the church of Philadelphia and died high rep that there to hold fast doctrine and it can be rewarded if they hold fast so it affects those three areas of those who are in tune with prophecy. Those areas will be areas of maturity for them and areas of reward when the Lord comes back. Gentlemen, I want to thank you both for joining me today and you can learn more about Brandon whole Pastor Tom Hughes 412 church sign Maureen Selleck hope for our check out their weekly prophecy updates on YouTube. You can just Google that on YouTube as well and they do that weekly's and prophecy gives us hope and hopeless times world is not going to get better, felt's is simply not good. I know there are theologies including dominion is in that say it's going to get better. But that is such an exercise in futility. We have a glorious future that is prepared for us and it's going to be perfect.

It's out of this world. In fact that's part of what the messages that we've been talking about today. The hope for the future of the end Times Bible prophecy, etc. prophecy gives us hope in hopeless times. I hope that you will take that take away from this hour. I want to thank you for listening and we will talk to you next week. Thank you for trusting this ministry each week on air online and in print. Let us hear from you through our website. All of three that's all of three call is central time at 76355 94 763-559-4444.

Write to us at olive tree ministries and Jim Markel Fox 1452 Maple Grove, MN 55311 Xbox 1452 Maple Grove, MN 55311. All gifts are tax-deductible also texted you consult our website and don't lose heart. God always has things under control. He will never leave you or forsake you and everything's falling place

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