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Speak your mind. And now, here's today's Truth Talk Live host. I am your host today.
I am Joe Knapp, and I'm coming back from the past few days. I am really excited about today's conversation and today's show. For those of you who had a chance to listen yesterday, we're going to piggyback off of a long, great conversation we had yesterday with Laura Trump. And today, we're going to talk about what is God's view on politics, elections, and really just talk about where our country is today. And my guest today, who is a dear friend of mine, a mentor to me, a counselor to me, and really, I can honestly say from a Bible wisdom standpoint, one of the smartest people that I know. So today, we are with Pastor J.C. Church. Pastor Church, are you there? My good friend Joe, it is great to hear your voice and be with you today. Well, Pastor Church, I'm kind of picturing my couple hour drive to your church in the middle of nowhere, Ohio, and sitting on your couch, putting my feet up on your coffee table.
The only difference today is I hope I don't have any tears in my eyes. So I'm really excited to have a conversation with you. It's my honor to be with you, and I appreciate all that God's doing in your life and your ministry and certainly the network today.
So it's good to be with you. Well, Pastor Church, we find ourselves living in interesting times, and you and I have had many conversations with each other, but also with politicians in Ohio and really throughout the country. And I really want today to discuss with the audience, what is our responsibility as believers?
And what's God's thought on politics, government, and what responsibilities do we have? So I'd love for you to just kind of give a quick narrative on your thoughts. Well, Joe, this is a stewardship issue.
If we really want to just kind of bottom line, it's a stewardship issue. And we as Christians and we as people of faith need to get a 30,000 foot view. I fear that far too many are pigeonholed in a passion. They maybe just aren't looking at it in a bigger picture kind of way, that we as people of faith are to steward not just our money and our health and our influence, but our freedoms. And our spiritual freedoms were given to us through the shed blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary, and our natural freedoms were given to us by hundreds of thousands of young men and women who stood in harm's way.
Many of them spilled their blood to give us this incredible experiment called America. And certainly as they stood in harm's way, literally willing to give their life, you would think that there would be enough maturity and understanding in our pulpits and in the body of Christ to realize the least we can do is vote our faith and vote our values. And so we're in a very challenging time, I believe, with a lot of spiritual warfare, a lot of confusion in the hearts and minds of people as it relates to our level of involvement and participation in the process.
But it really is a stewardship issue, and I believe that's how we need to kind of begin the conversation. Well, oftentimes I hear, and I'm sure you do also, you know, policies versus personality. At the end of the day, you know, there's going to be two folks on the ballot for President of the United States. Is it okay to vote for policies over personality, or should we not vote if we disagree with either one of those? No, I think you have to vote for policy over personality because we all have strengths and weaknesses. There was potentially only one perfect candidate who ever graced the earth and we crucified him 2,000 years ago. So if we're looking for perfection in any candidate, we need to sit down right away.
So there's personalities, and what we have to look at really are the policies and the positions that affect each and every one of us. And sitting out is a vote. A no vote is a vote. I'm reminded of something Thomas Jefferson said. He said all tyranny needs to do to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. And this is a very critical, important moment that we have to realize that silence is an endorsement and avoidance is an acceptance. And what's at stake is our freedom.
Our freedoms are at stake in many regards. And so, you know, stepping aside because of a personality, instead of seeing the bigger picture of the policy, I think is irresponsible. Okay, so let's get down to policies and issues. Obviously, the two candidates that are on the ballots in less than two weeks now, one has a four-year track record that they're finishing up currently, and one has a four-year track record prior to that. When you look at key issues to kind of measure the two against, what are those issues that we should be factoring in mostly? Well, I think some of the key issues we've got to look at is, you know, on one side we know what the person's thoughts and feelings are, what their plan is, what the issues are, how they're addressing the issues.
On the other side, we get a word salad. We don't have any answers per se in a direct way on some of these issues. So bringing the Bible perspective into it, the scriptures were known by the fruit that we bear. I mean, evidence speaks for itself. So, you know, if we want to know what someone's going to do in the future, let's take a look at what they've done in the past.
Because in this space at the moment, you can say a lot of things and say nothing and make people think you've said something. So I think the issues that we've got to look at as people of faith is obviously our religious liberty issues. Unless our listeners across the country have their head in the sand, it's open hunting season on all that is God and goodly. And let's summarize the little audio clip in the one rally with Kamala Harris where someone yelled out, Jesus is Lord, and she says, you're in the wrong rally.
And then you have the same thing being said at J.D. Vance about Jesus being Lord and King, and he responds more favorably. We as people of faith have got to look at and understand that the amount of power and influence that goes to those who sit in the White House and sit even in our state capitals, etc., impact us. And so I would say we've got to look at this religious liberty issue.
We obviously have the other issues that affect all of us. And we'll be right back in a few minutes with Pastor Church. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. I'm your host, Joe Knapp, and today we are talking with my dear friend, and it's Pastor J.C. Church. Welcome back, Pastor Church. Hey, my friend.
Good to be back. So we were just talking about some of the issues that are really important to us as we do vote here in the next 12 days. I'd like to go down in order of some of the biggest topics that are on our minds. One is Israel. Now, obviously, when it comes to a biblical approach to the topic of Israel, there's a lot to be said for that. And a lot of Christians today are talking about that. And it is interesting to me that everyone doesn't seem to have the same viewpoints on it, even though we have one Bible that speaks very clearly about it. Can you help us understand what the Bible says about Israel?
Well, absolutely, Jill. The promise in Genesis 12 that I will bless them that bless Israel and curse them that curse Israel still exists today. The Abrahamic covenant in Genesis 15 has not changed. The 130 verses that say God has given the land to his chosen people has not changed. Where we're at in this critical tipping point in time, our listeners, is there are 16 major prophecies in the Bible that relate to Israel. 13 of them have come to pass. If everybody listening would read Zechariah chapter 12, you see hidden in Zechariah chapter 12, the 14th and the 15th.
The 14th is happening right now. I call it the rejection of the nation. It says in the early part of the chapter that Israel and Jerusalem will be burdensome to all people, and all nations will turn their back on Israel. I'm on calls consistently with leaders in Israel.
We're very involved. And I can tell you this, Joe, about three or four weeks ago, every nation that was giving supplies for this war that they're in, all of them stopped except one nation, the United States of America. If we get the wrong president who turns their back on Israel, you will see the early portion of Zechariah 12, the 14th prophecy, coming to pass. If we get the right president, we have time to continue as prophecy is unfolding around the world in the Middle East to advance the Great Commission. The 15th prophecy is also found in the end of Zechariah, where it talks about the Jewish people getting a revelation of Jesus being the Messiah and weeping and mourning uncontrollably.
The last and final is the return of Jesus Christ. So Joe, for our listeners, we are living the most incredible, amazing moment in prophetic history. This is no time for replacement theology. This is no time to turn our back on the nation of Israel as we find people doing if we study scripture very, very, very carefully. Genesis 12 is just as real today as it's always been. And the moment we're living in politically and spiritually is this.
Pressure doesn't kill you, it reveals you. And this moment right now that we're living in is letting us know really what's in the heart of many people. And I would challenge our listeners today, be very thorough in understanding the Scriptures and prophecies.
But if we read the book, we're going to land on a pro-Israel, standing with Israel position. Judaism is the root, Christianity is the branch that's connected, and we're connected, and it's exciting times that we're living in. Well, Pastor Church, I know firsthand from knowing you personally that you are speaking not just from a vantage point of studying God's Word, but you have spent not just time in Israel, but with leaders of Israel to the point where they have acknowledged your love for their country, your understanding of God's Word. Do you mind what you can share about some of the relationships and just conversations you've actually had with leaders of Israel on why you're so passionate about that land?
Yeah, we've been there several times, and I've had leaders here. Since you're asking, I have the privilege of being very close friends with the president and founder of the Israeli Leadership Institute, Ikki Elnor. Through him, we've been involved and had relationships in the past with individuals that are involved in the Knesset, the deputy speaker, various different leaders. In the 70th anniversary of Israel, we had Helik Bar, one of the key leaders there, the speaker of the Knesset here at our church. I've had Lieutenant Brigadier General Dahl Hirsch here at our church.
These are kind of war heroes there. And we've always, Joe, as part of our ministry, been involved in supporting Israel, educating people on Israel. And so it affords us some conversations of people who really are the boots on the ground that give us the real pulse of what's going on, not to spend sometimes of the media.
Well, I appreciate your heart, and I have seen it. And I am really, you know, I think there's times in our country here in the U.S. that we read our Bible and we almost chalk off Israel as part of the Old Testament stories. But the reality of it is, Israel has, will, and always will play a very important part. On our place on this on this earth, I like to, as we kind of go through some of these main topics, you know, obviously the life issue has, you know, comes up every time we talk about an election.
I feel like it has hovered on top one or two issues this entire year. You know, what does the Bible say on the issue of life and when does life begin and how much should we be protecting it? Well, Joe, we just completed here at our church, I had for three weeks the Cemetery of the Innocent with 3,500 wood crosses stretched all across the front of our property on Route 4.
This is a very, very important issue. Life is, all life is precious and comes from God. And I can remember speaking before at the Capitol here in Ohio and defending life before one of the committees and I was driving down that, Dan, I'm like, how am I going to address this issue a little bit more? And I thought as a pastor, how many times we as pastors have died people at their dying bed with family, watch them draw their last breath.
The hospice nurse comes over, they put their finger on their neck that when they find no pulse, they mark date of the time of death with the date this is the time the person died. And I remember giving my speech that day, I said, look, if we're going to mark and measure the absence of life by the absence of a heartbeat, then we need to mark and measure the presence of life by the presence of a heartbeat or find another way to do this. And so life is precious. It comes from God.
He makes no mistakes. And, you know, we're to defend the unborn. And so we take a stance to protect the unborn.
Joe, it is absolutely barbaric to think that we could let a baby go all the way into the ninth month and then rip that baby apart piece by piece, limb by limb. And so I understand the lines have been drawn. I understand for some it's a sensitive issue. To many, it's a scriptural issue. And so we have to be, you know, I guess, look at it from God's vantage point that life is precious and the enemy does everything he can to kill, steal and destroy. And I also find it, you know, as you and I both know, you helped me work on a movie called Unplanned and help get that word out.
And one of the fascinating things for me, if a lady, if a couple has a miscarriage, I mean, I have seen people actually hop on planes to take care of that couple for their loss. But we'll be right back. I am Joe Knott. We're on Truth Talk Live right now. We will take calls later on. We'll try to.
Our number here is 866-348-7884. You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live.
This is Joe Knott. I am your host for today, along with my great friend, Pastor J.C. Church. Pastor Church, we were very before the break, we were talking about the life issue versus abortion. And one thing that I learned when I was making the movie Unplanned was, you know, we I would never say we don't have an abortion problem in this country.
We obviously do. But the greater problem that we face is unplanned pregnancy. And I got to believe our entire audience today understand how the pregnancy part of that occurs.
So it's the unplanned part that I think we need to spend time on and believe that if we can figure that out, we will avoid a lot of folks being in the position to even consider an abortion. So in in my journey of growing up in orphanage and not having parents with me and realizing that, you know, we all have this desire to belong. And in today's world, what you and I know is ultimately only God can fulfill that desire to belong. But then he designed us for our family and for community.
And if you're not sensing receiving that sense of belonging from anywhere there, people will reach out to other places to find that sense of belonging. Can you just help our audience for a few minutes understand the the reasons why we do have unplanned pregnancies and how we ultimately get to a position where laws about abortion shouldn't matter in our country, as much as how do we prevent even the need to have an unplanned pregnancy? Well, you make some great points. I think if we if we wind this thing back, we as God fearing Bible believing individuals coming from a strong Christian perspective, I think some of our bigger issues, this one and others walks back to the sovereignty of God. Is there a God? Is he sovereign? So it's a sovereignty of God issue. If God is sovereign, then he has give us scriptures. So I believe in our country on this issue in particular, we have a sovereignty of God issue. Is there a God?
Is there not a God? Therefore, then we have a scripture of God issue. The scriptures are God that God has given us do not produce bondage.
They produce blessing. Boundaries are designed for our safety, not to take us hostage. Now, when the family breaks down, the boundaries are gone.
God is not sovereign. Scripture is not the instruction manual, the truth that will guide us. We then see that leading to defining whatever sin is or sin is not in the minds of individuals creating their own truth. And we see then ultimately a breakdown of the family and values and morals. So therefore, the idea of finding love in all the wrong places, finding a sense of connection and belonging if fathers are absent and families are breaking down and we're not teaching abstinence as something that is important, we're not bringing the scriptural values of the purpose of a man and one woman coming together and staying committed and faithful to each other and teaching responsibility as it comes to becoming sexually involved with one another, you can back it up and we've got a big breakdown issue and you can continue to see, because of that, to your point, that sense of wanting to be needed and loved and accepted and having a sense of community and family.
Many times, we find people looking for love in all the wrong places. And we live in a time, as I discovered marketing this movie, that this is a difficult topic for some pastors to talk about from their pulpit. I know you well enough to know that that is not an issue for you, but can you speak a little bit and not to throw any individual under the bus, but there are ministries and Christian leaders that have a hard time speaking about this issue. What are your thoughts on that?
No, you're right. Here's what I would say to my fellow pastors with him. The most issues of the day have been hijacked politically to the point that we have preachers and Christians who think they're political. There is not a message that we preach on any Sunday that's not moral in its nature. God is a good God.
He has a wonderful plan. He wants to bring hope, help, and healing into every hurting heart that's out there, whether someone has had an abortion, whether someone has experienced the pain and the explosion of their family falling apart, etc. I encourage you guys to just apply the biblical truth, just speak the biblical truth to the issues and allow the Holy Spirit to begin to minister to the hearts of people. We're not here to keep guilt on people.
In fact, there's no guilt or condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. But if we avoid the issues and we're not bringing scriptural truths to light, then darkness continues to prevail in the hearts of hurting people in our midst. So not just this issue, but any other moral issue, whether it's the transgender issue, whether it's the life issue, whether it's any other moral issue, the LGBTQ movements, how do we biblically respond to those issues? We simply cannot avoid the issues. We just simply, I challenge people, bring the truth to scripture. Bring the scriptural truths to the issues and allow the Holy Spirit to do the work. Because there's not an issue we face in life or in our country that the Bible does not address. Well, speaking of issues that actually geographically have played pretty close to you and I in Ohio, there's a town in between us called Springfield, Ohio, and actually got brought up in the one and only presidential debate.
Actually, I should say the second presidential debate, I guess the first one did not count. But Springfield, Ohio, and it was talking about this idea of immigration. And I've heard Christians talk on both sides of this issue whether there should be a wall, whether we should invite everybody to this country, and what's your thought on how we should be as Christians and believers when it comes to our immigration laws? Yeah, I agree. Listen, we need a wall, okay?
I've been in multiple countries around the world. This is a simple thing. What we have to understand is we need compassion with accountability. Either we're going to be a land of law and order or we're not. And I know many people in our ministries that have come legally.
I have sponsored people from two different nations who came to this country legally. And to start the process, we understand, Joe. Yes, as people of faith, we need compassion. We need to understand where they're at. But we also need accountability, a legal path forward for this to happen.
Our border needs a wall. We are being invaded. I mean, you can see from the murders, from the drugs, et cetera, we understand the big picture of what really is at stake with this.
And it's that and it's shameful. You go to other nations and we know laws work, we know security can work, et cetera, so we're not trying to be mean or heartless individuals, but you do need some accountability that's involved in this process. And this is an invasion and there's no getting around that. Until somebody is dealing with family members who've lost someone over drugs, fentanyl, et cetera, it's easy to have maybe different thoughts and feelings, but this is a very serious crisis.
It has been for a long, long time and it needs to be dealt with. So you're saying it is possible to love these people but at the same time protect our own and have them enter this country through a legal path. So if one of our candidates gets elected and they do send folks back to where they came from but invite all of them to also try to legally come into this country, that that is still a loving way to deal with folks from other countries. 100%.
100%, Joe. I mean, either we're a country of law and order or not. And what we can do is continue to expand our missions and try to help those nations as well. I think I would remind our listeners today, the United States of America is 4% of the world's population. We control 42% of the world's wealth. 85% of every mission dollar that's touched foreign soil finds its origin in America. We have rebuilt infrastructures after many wars. We've taken billions of dollars in humanitarian aid to global crises like no other nation in the world. We're a good-giving nation.
We can help those nations if they're willing to want to address some of the problems and the concerns that they have. But we must also realize a simple picture. If you have a boat that holds 20 people and you put 50 people in the boat, it's going to sink. And America is sinking, and our freedoms and everything we hold near and dear are in trouble.
I forget what it was, Joe. Someone once said this, freedom is the oxygen of the soul. And I don't know what your listeners are feeling today, but across this country, we can feel something is choking and something is not right financially, spiritually, and otherwise. And we've got to have real leadership in Washington that understands how to begin to address the issues now and think in terms of addressing them generationally.
And speaking of financially, obviously in the past four years, there's been a lot of people and it's been getting probably worse every day, just folks just struggling with finances. Now, I know personally your thoughts on handling money, and we'll get back to that right after our break. I would invite if some of you have questions for Pastor Church and his thoughts on biblical viewpoint of politics and elections, please call us at 866-348-7884. We would love to talk with you. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. I'm your host, Joe Knopf.
Our phone number here is 866-348-7884. And joining us today is my dear friend, Pastor J.C. Church. And right before break, we started bringing up this idea of the economy and finances.
And I'd really like to talk, Pastor Church, these final ten minutes or so. We have all these conversations today about politics and relying on the government, and our mood swings are even related to this election and anxiety comes up. But the reality of it is God has given us a playbook to how to live our lives. And I think a great visual and simple description of that is just personal finances.
And I have sat in your office and I have shared with you some of the mistakes that I've made, some of the anxiety that has caused in my life. But there are people just believing and relying on government is going to be the ones that have an impact on their personal finances. And the reality of it is I think a lot of people have self-inflicted issues that they're ignoring, even when it comes to their personal finances. So I would like for you just to share with our audience today, as we kind of head towards the finish line here, of at the end of the day, a lot of these things come down to our relationship with God. He gives us the playbook for how to live our lives, and how do we rely on that and then allow government and these other outside sources just to be factors, but not to be determining the impact of our life? Well, Joe, there's no bondage like financial bondage, and I've counseled people who were extremely in debt and people who are extremely wealthy.
And you can be in bondage with money and without money. The first step, I think, towards freedom in the whole area of finances is for our listening audience today to, number one, wrestle themselves as it relates, again, to that issue of God is sovereign. Now, if God is sovereign, this is the statement I want people to get in their heart and their spirit. His sovereignty, beyond you just saying, yeah, God exists, no, is He really sovereign? Does He really have this?
Does He really sit high and look low? Psalms 24 says the earth and all that's in it is the Lord's. So if He is sovereign, His sovereignty produces your surrender. On the other side of fully surrendering and understanding He's sovereign, you will experience a peace and a grace to help you then address the responsible approach to His resources.
Surrender means you have nothing. Now, if you've messed it up, then you've got to, on the other side of that surrender, experience a peace and a grace to say, God, I need to put a plan together to be responsible to steward the resources, steward my way out of debt, steward myself to this place called freedom, because ultimately a dream minus a plan equals a fantasy. And so it requires sitting down with your pastor or elders or leaders or mentors in your life to say, let's look at my financial condition so that I can change my financial position. And you create a budget and a plan. And I tell people, live like Jesus is coming tomorrow, but plan like He's not coming for 50 or 100 years. So it gets you to a place that if He's really, really sovereign, then you fully surrender and begin to manage and adjust and take care of stewarding all of His resources that's your time, your talent, your treasure, the way He instructs us to.
And God will grace you as you either climb your way out of debt or begin to build a financial plan that brings you to a place of having the resources you need both now and in the future. But I feel like it'd just be a lot easier to blame you on the government. Are you saying we can't do that? Well, no, we can't, not as believers. The government is not my God.
I was having this conversation with someone earlier today, actually, I was getting my hair cut, and I had a conversation with a gal about, America, this is a great place. We contribute, we pay taxes, we put resources into our systems, our counties, to take care of the people who've fallen on hard times, who can't take care of themselves. So there should be a system in place that helps you in a temporary basis, but not to replace God, not to cause you to become dependent upon that, where you never experience building and accomplishment and self-worth and value and all of those kinds of things.
So yeah, we need to have something there. If you hit hard times, a company closes, you're forced into bankruptcy, of course we want to help people, but not something to be totally dependent upon. God has a wonderful plan. If he's sovereign, we surrender, and God does want to see his people have what they need to take care of the obligations and the responsibilities they have in life. He's a good, good God.
He's a good Father beyond just the song that we sing. But, Joe, we also are to seek first the Kingdom and his righteousness. We've got to make a decision. If he's sovereign, we surrender, and we do things his way, not our way.
Totally agree. And, Pastor Church, we have a caller on the line. His name is Mike. He's from Dayton, Ohio, and he has a question for you. So, Mike, are you there?
Yeah, I'm here. I have a question and a comment. I appreciate everything Pastor Church has said all day. I've been listening to the whole program, and he's a very wise man. And the reason I'm saying this is because I can tell that he's slow to speak, and he studies what he's talking about before.
He really puts some thought into his process and what he's saying and how he's saying it. And a lot of voters out there want to do things with emotion, and I think we need to study the Word and pray to God and fast and understand what the Bible says and vote based on that direction, and that I love what he's saying. I mean, I just want to hit this point across, if I can, because I love Dayton, Ohio, and I love what you guys are saying. And I'm slow to speak here, too, but I really want to say that we need to fast.
We need to pray, and we need to vote our conscience and what God wants us to do. And that's all I have to say, sir. Thank you. Well, thanks, Mike, and Pastor Church, what do you have to say to Mike here? Yeah, well, I agree with Mike, and thank him for calling in. As he was talking, one of the things that jumped in my mind was another Ronald Reagan statement where he said, listen to this one, Joe, if we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape, this is the last stand on earth. And we cannot walk in the realm of feeling and emotions because someone said this or someone said that. We're not going to agree with everything 100 percent of the time. But if we look at the big picture, we have to understand conformity has been said, that conformity is the jailer of freedom. We're not to conform to this world, we're to be transformed. We are difference makers. We are the salt and light to the world. And Joe, when you draw your last breath, and you and I talked about this, when we're done, and when Mike's life and all of our listeners' life is over, we're all going to be known for one of three things.
The problems we created, the problems we allowed, are the problems we resolved. We're here to win souls, make disciples, and be cultural warriors, to stand up for righteousness and show people God is a loving, caring God, but we cannot buy into the culture of compromise, losing our convictions, because then we're not showing people the way to the cross. Amen. If you don't mind, amen. I love his boldness, I love his compassion, I love yours as well, Joe.
This is awesome. We need to keep, I hope the listeners are listening, and really understand we need to pray and vote what God wants us to vote, and it's a stewardship under man. I'm sorry I'm a little bit passionate about it as well, but I think I'm passionate because I pray to God, and I understand the urgency that's out there against the wiles of the devil.
You know what I mean? So, again, I thank you, Joe, thank you, Pastor Church, for what you're saying on air here. Thank you, Mike, thanks for your desire to keep this country a godly country, and praying, fasting is what we all need to be doing in the final 12 days. So, Pastor Church, in the final minute or so here, we're only 12 days away, and there are still, hopefully not our listeners now, but tens of millions of people that are going to be sitting in church on Sunday morning, and whether it's arrogance or judgment, they are still not wanting to go to the polls and vote on election day. But what I'm hearing from you is, we have a duty, a responsibility, that God places on us that we do need to go vote. We absolutely need to vote, Joe. It's a stewardship issue, and I would challenge our listeners, call your pastor today and tomorrow. It is well within the rights and responsibility of our pastors and churches as 501c3s to hand out voter guides, educate, inform, and motivate your people. Tell them, vote their faith, vote their values. Just be proud of the values that you vote for. And I love Reagan.
I have so many things I think that he said. He once said, we are keepers of the flame of freedom and liberty. Hold it high for the world to see a beacon of hope, a light to the nations. If our light goes dark, Joe, the world is going to be a more difficult place if America becomes a darker place. And so it's our responsibility, and I just challenge, you know, I was quoted in an article with AFR and some other networks with George Barna that there's upwards, some say 25 to 30 million professing Christians that are not voting and maybe they're upset over a personality, a quote, a tweet, whatever. We've got to mature beyond that, Joe. We've got to get beyond getting our feelings hurt over a little thing here and see the big picture. So I appeal to people. Please see the big picture. Talk to your pastor today. Truth Talk Live with Pastor J.C. Church and Joe Knott. Please go vote.
