Our Strong Tower

This is Robbie Dilmore from The Christian Car Guy and Kingdom Pursuit, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build a kingdom. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just a few seconds.

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Speak your mind. And now here's today's Truth Talk Live host. Yeah, today's Truth Talk Live host is Mike Carbone.

Stu's not with us today, but he's with us in our hearts, right guys? I'm here with Nick and Gray producing the program. Today's guest is Laura Powell, and we're going to be talking today about the Our Strong Tower Conference. So Strap In, today's topic is going to be about Muslim outreach and witnessing to Muslims, and this conference is about dealing with Muslim and the Islam faith.

So if you have a question for our guest, Laura, 800-34-TRUTH, that's 800-348-7884 here on Truth Talk Live with Mike and Laura Powell, welcome in today. Thanks so much for having me. It's good to be here.

So glad you're here today. We've got about 5 million Islamists, we would say, Muslims in the country today, so it's a growing population. By some counts, it's believed that they may be the number two faith in America inside of, I think, about 15 years.

It might have been 2040, I saw. So we've got a lot of interaction coming with them, and we're going to have to learn how to deal with it. So tell us a little bit first about what Laura Powell does, because that's a wider circle, and then a little bit about, we'll start talking about Our Strong Tower.

Sure, that sounds great. I have a website called An Affair with Reason, and that's at anaffairwithreason.com, where I have a blog that I write different articles about, mostly related to Christian apologetics, in other words, providing evidence for the Christian faith, scientific evidence for God as creator, historical evidence for Christianity as the truth in particular. I also have a podcast called The Night and Rose Show, Night with a K. That's available anywhere you find podcasts, so we have a lot of fun with that. We talk about, again, apologetics and Christian worldview. I also work with women in apologetics as an apologist, and I speak at conferences, I write articles for them, I write social media posts for them, I help in a whole variety of ways when others are writing or speaking and need some feedback from an apologist to make sure things are on target, I help with that.

So that's a lot of fun. It's a really neat ministry of about 45 women, and we love to equip women with reasons for the hope that they have. And men as well, we welcome men to our events. So apologetics is just a fancy word for explaining your faith, right? So you help inside of that, you've got some specific silos that you help women with or Muslim with or other topics, some specific topics inside apologetics.

Exactly. So apologetics comes from 1 Peter 3.15, which says always be ready to make a defense for the reasons, for the hope that we have. And the Greek word apologia is to make a defense using evidence and reason, and so that's what we do. We follow that exhortation, that command, and equip people to be ready to make a defense for the faith using scientific evidence, philosophical arguments, historical evidence, as well as polemics, which means to point out problems with other worldviews. Okay, so comparative studies really in faith and being able to point with the Bible to what our belief system is and where it differs from others, and of course, how people can be led to the truth by that.

Absolutely. So apologetics, you know, that's a, I don't want to say, it's simpler than it sounds in practice, but it's a little esoteric in the words that we use, polemics, apologetics. What drew you to that in the first place? How did you get involved? Well, I got involved with that. I actually had a bit of a background in that from my seminary years, about 20 years ago. I, and actually even before that, when I was a college student, I was not a Christian, I was not raised in a Christian home, I didn't know the gospel until I took a course at my university, and I had a non-Christian professor who told us up front that his, one of his objectives for the course was to show us that the New Testament was a bunch of contradictions and a mess and not useful as a guide for your life, but that it could be interesting for learning about ancient peoples and how they thought before we had science.

That takes me back to my heady days at Youngstown State University in Youngstown, Ohio. A dewy-eyed, fresh-faced 18-year-old walks into, in his first quarter, walks into philosophy class, and Professor Minogue announces in philosophy class, if you're here to defend the Bible, you may leave right now. Wow, yeah, I believe it.

Yeah. So when I took this course, though, I wasn't a Christian, and that didn't bother me. I just wanted to know what was in the New Testament because I had no idea what was in it, and so I just wanted to learn.

I also wanted to get my A. So I answered all the questions correctly and went on with my life and ended up becoming a Christian a couple years later. And so it was of some interest to me to go back and consider those questions that had been raised by my professor. What about these so-called contradictions and things like that? Well, I attended Denver Seminary and my professor, Dr. Craig Blomberg, incorporated answers to those questions in his New Testament courses. And so I learned quite a bit about apologetics just from learning, from studying the New Testament under his leadership. But really what got me fascinated in apologetics was several years later, I was working at a United Methodist Church, and my boss, who was an ordained minister, kept coming up to me saying that the Bible can't be trusted, that God is a violent, evil, bloodthirsty, genocidal maniac, that the gospels contradict each other, and on and on and on. And I saw that this was a real world need, both inside the church as well as outside the church.

That's when I got really passionate about it. All right. Outstanding. Well, I'd like to dig more into your faith story, but we're going to run out of time in the first segment here. We need to get to the conference and talk about Muslim faith. So 800-34-TRUTH, 834-348-7884. We'll be right back with Laura Powell on Truth Talk Live, taking your calls.

Welcome back to Truth Talk Live here, and Truth Broadcasting Studios here in beautiful downtown Winston-Salem. My wonderful producers Nick and Grayson tell me I gave the wrong phone number. It's 866-34-TRUTH.

I said 800, bad mic, first mistake of the day. 866-34-TRUTH. We're going to go to Buskman in Ohio in just a minute, and we're going to talk to our guest Laura Powell after that. She's here to promote the Our Strong Tower. This is Ministry to Muslims Network.

It's an East Coast conference here, and it's coming up in the next week or so. And we're going to talk about her time in Afghanistan working among some Muslim people. But first, let's go to WTKD 106.5 FM near the Dayton, Ohio area, and we've got Buskman here.

Buskman, what would you like to ask or say? Hey, Mike, I used to live in Dayton, Ohio. If you see something flying and it's not God's creation, you can thank a Daytonian.

It's the Dayton Flyers. You know there's an ongoing fight between North Carolina and Ohio for first in flight, so now we're going to get into it because I'm from Ohio, but I live in North Carolina. We're going to have to learn to share. I will arm wrestle you, Mike.

I will arm wrestle you, and whoever wins gets the trophy. Alright, I got a question for dear Laura. First off, is there a website for witnessing to Muslims, Laura? And then second, I was sitting in a teaching once, Laura, where a dear pastor from Lebanon, and I'm not talking about Lebanon, Ohio, because Lebanon, Ohio is just down the road from me. Lebanon, the country in the Middle East, he was speaking, ma'am, of these princes, and you know what a prince is. Yes, sir. These are leaders in the Islamic faith as military soldiers, and I won't give his name because in this meeting, Laura, he said please do not broadcast my name because I could have my life threatened, but he was bringing all kinds of Muslims to Christ, including these princes, you know, a pearl of prince, not princess, and anyway, he said that what he was coming in contact with were these prince would come in and say, I saw Jesus in my dreams.

Who is this Jesus? And if I remember right, ma'am, they refer to Jesus as Isa, is that correct? Isa, that's correct, yes.

So number one, I don't think this dear brother who visited us was lying, but is that a phenomenon, ma'am, that is happening to these Muslim people and also the website, because as I talked to Stu, he had another person on for evangelizing Muslims, and I wanted to raise up my dear friend Saeed and Oktai, two dear Muslim men that don't know Christ yet, but my brother friend, she is working with Oktai, who's his neighbor, and then my dear friend is a small business owner who I deal with, Saeed. That's outstanding, that's outstanding, Bussman. Outstanding, thank you for calling in today. God bless. All right, yeah, let me answer that. Great questions.

So this is actually a, I'll address the dreams first. This is actually a phenomenon that I hear of a lot from ex-Muslims who are friends of mine, and from missionaries I know all around the Muslim world. This is a very common way that God seems to be using to reach Muslims, and so there are a lot of similarities in these accounts where Muslims will see Jesus, they'll see Isa, they know it's him.

Usually he's dressed in bright, bright white. He speaks some words to them, and then they have interests. They want to know more about him.

Who is this Isa who appeared in my dreams? And then they will seek out a Christian or the scriptures and end up becoming Christians. So yes, that is in fact happening all over the Muslim world. I think they may be able to relate to it or understand the phenomenon better because Abraham had dreams, Jacob had dreams. This is a more common practice there, and the gospel is so hindered in these countries that the Holy Spirit makes a way for himself. And if we can't get a radio station there, if we can't get TV there, if we can't get people and Bibles in there, Jesus is just going to come into your house in your dreams.

That's right, that's right, and he is doing that all over the world, so we can praise God for that. As far as a website, I would point you to Answering Islam. Several friends of mine contribute to that website. They have articles on all sorts of topics. I've also written numerous articles on my website, anaffairwithreason.com. You can look there, but I also have some—they're interspersed between articles on Christianity, apologetics, and worldview. Sure, you could also look up Ministry to Muslims Network. If you want to Google Ministry to Muslims Network, they'll be, I think, the first one up on the page there. And they're hosting the conference that our guest, Laura Powell, is going to be speaking out, doing some apologetics. Tell us a little bit about your experience in the Muslim world in Afghanistan, arguably one of the toughest places to be on the earth for the gospel.

Yeah, yeah, definitely, I would say so. Well, I did not ever really intend to get involved in Ministry to Muslims, but when I was working with an engineering ministry, I was asked to help train up a team that was preparing to move to the Middle East to have a presence there. And so I started studying the Quran and the Hadith. The Hadith are the tradition, sayings, teachings of Muhammad.

The Quran supposedly comes directly from God. And so I started studying those. I took a graduate level course in Islam. I went to the Middle East, spent some time in Egypt and Jordan. And I met with believers there.

I ministered to Muslims there. I came back and I just was sharing everything that I was learning with this team. Well, the team launched and I thought, OK, well, that's the end of that. I'm done.

Yes, let's move on. And it wasn't too long later that I was asked to go to Afghanistan. So I've been to about 30 countries, more than 30 countries, but about 30 for Ministry in particular, and many of those are Muslim majority countries.

Afghanistan, I would say, was hands down the toughest because even if someone just accuses you of sharing the gospel or trying to evangelize them, you can be put in prison with the Taliban right away and be in tremendous danger. So but I saw the need. It was explained to me why they needed a woman. And of course, it was very, very difficult to find a woman with my background who wanted to go to Afghanistan. So I went and I was able to minister to Muslim women there. I was able to minister to long term missionaries there from all over the world. And I really developed a heart for the Muslim women.

They just to to dance or to listen to music. They had to close the blinds and and do that in secret. They they asked if if I would take them for a walk one day and we went outside. It was a beautiful day. They just started celebrating.

And one of the girls grabbed my arm tightly and she said, this is the best day of my whole life. Thank you so much. Thank you. My goodness.

To say it's a repressive government, there would be an understatement. Absolutely. All right, folks, we're going to come back with Laura Powell. She is going to be at the Ministry to Muslims Network East Coast Conference. Our strong tower that's coming up on May 31st and June 1st.

And we'll be back to talk a little more in a few minutes. You're listening to Truth Talk Live. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. Our guest today is Laura Powell, and we're talking about the our strong tower conference, which is happening. The Ministry to Muslims Network is putting it on. Folks, if you are anywhere in the Charlotte, North Carolina area, I know we've got stations all over the country, but if we've got a fair representation in the southeast here, if you're anywhere near Charlotte, this is next weekend. The 30th.

Well, next, let's see, the Friday, the 31st and Saturday, June 1st. So if you were in that area, get to Ministry to Muslims dot com Ministry to Muslims dot com and look on the upcoming events tab up on the top there and just click on that tab. And it says the our strong tower conference. And, you know, you can you know, this is I want to say this is inexpensive learning. You know, some folks, you know, some folks go to apologetics conferences and they're three hundred dollars. They're two hundred dollars. It's thirty dollars at the door. Thirty dollars for all of this good information over a two day conference, if you're available for both days. But they go from six thirty to nine p.m. on Friday. They're going from morning till till afternoon, nine thirty a.m. to five thirty p.m. on Saturday.

So you can get a lot of learning in. You won't have to be intimidated when you're talking to many of the folks of the Islamic faith that you may run into. They are coming to Christ in numbers.

Right now, the miracle stories coming out of the Middle East probably dwarf anything that's coming from any other continent or geography. Wouldn't you agree? I'd say so. Yes.

Yes. So, folks, get to this conference, our strong tower ministry to Muslims dot com and just click on that events tab and get there. Reverend Samuel Green is going to be there.

We've got Anthony Rogers. Of course, our guest, Laura Powell, is going to be there. Dr. Tony Costa, a lot of folks who are going to be able to give you good information about how to share your faith with Muslims and what are the differences. So, Laura, thanks for being with us today and appreciate it. If you want to participate, eight six six thirty four truth eight six six three four three four eight seven eight eight four. And you can jump in the conversation and ask questions if you if you know a Muslim and you don't know how to talk to him.

You can get some tips on how to start that. Right. That's right. Yeah. Or if you'd like to know Muslims and you don't know where to find a few, you know, you know where to find a few. All right.

So let's move along a little bit here. I want to you know, things that are important to understand is common objections that Muslims have to Christianity. You know, and I think this is where folks in any kind of apologetics, sharing your faith situation, you wonder what's the guy going to ask me? What's he going to say if I start saying, you know, Jesus, Jesus saves?

What's he going to say back? So there are some common objections that I think you found in. And we'll talk about a few of them and maybe how to answer some of those.

And one of the first ones, the primary ones, any time I've ever spoken to to a Muslim, they struggle with the Trinity. Can you talk about that? Absolutely. Yes.

This this is one of the first couple of issues that always comes up. And they have a lot of misconceptions about the Trinity. One thing they are taught is that we believe that God is three gods and God is one God. And that that is obviously a contradiction because God can't be one God and also three gods.

And so it's important to to clarify what we actually believe. We believe that there is one God. He is one being. What he is, is God. So he is one being. But who he is, is three persons.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Because a being is not the same thing as a person. This is not a contradiction just because our experience with with personhood in humanity is that one human being correlates with one person. That doesn't mean that God has to be that way. So he's not created in our image. Although I would submit that in Islam, he is very much and very clearly created in the image of man.

How do you how do you mean that? So things like, for example, God cannot be three persons and one God. Also, God didn't rest on the seventh day because God doesn't need rest.

And so obviously we must think that he got tired and he needed to sleep, needed some naps. And that's why we've got the whole Sabbath thing in there. They're like, that doesn't make sense. So that's not in Islam. Well, it doesn't when you say it like that. Right. Exactly.

There are there are numerous things like that, that that, for example. Jesus, who they believe is a prophet, suffered and died. They say, well, why would God be so put put one of his prophets through that?

That sounds evil and mean. And God likes his prophets. So he would never have his prophet suffer. So get rid of the get rid of the crucifixion. So we really have two pieces inside of that.

We've got one. They really don't understand Jesus as God's son and don't see any need for God to have a son. And then on the second part of that, they also believe that, you know, the prophet Jesus, even Jesus as a prophet, should not have suffered. Right. Exactly. They also believe that in order for God to have a son, Jesus, that God had to have sexual relations with Mary.

They think that that's what we believe, that God and Mary had intercourse and then created Jesus. Which follows the pattern of Roman mythology, Greek mythology. It's easy to understand where sinful, corrupt ideas like that come from. Right. Right.

Exactly. So it's how I find it's it's helpful to to clarify what we believe. The Koran also says that in its attempt to refute the Trinity, it says, no, you're wrong about God being three. God, Mary and Jesus are not all three God.

Well, we don't believe that Mary is part of the Trinity. And so, again, there's just there was a lot of misunderstanding in Mohammed's time. And so when you're around 650 A.D. and you've only got what's out there right now to work with. Right. Exactly. Exactly.

They didn't have the Internet or go to conferences. So, yeah. So and how you know, what is it about a suffering son that is so contradictory in the Muslim faith? And and how does the gospel answer this? How do we how do we use Judo to turn this that, you know, that that why would God make Jesus suffer into here's why? Right. Well, I think that the repulsion to it is in part rooted in the fact that Islam is in its teachings a bit of a kind of a prosperity type faith, where if you obey Allah, he will make sure that only good things happen to you. And and so certainly for his prophets who were considered completely obedient, there would be no suffering for them. But when we when I talk to Muslims about this, I I bring up to them the fact that, look, the the think of a the most loving person you can think of.

And they're they're they're strong and they're powerful and they're wealthy and they have everything. And then I come along and I need help and I'm flailing and I'm dirty and I'm disgusting and I'm I'm in need of help. Let's say I'm in a dirty, gross mud pit drowning.

A truly strong, excellent, good, loving person who who had the ability would come and pull me out of the mud and out of my drowning and clean me off. And help me out. And this is just a small analogy for what God in his infinite power and goodness and love has done for us. This this is the Muslims introduction to a loving God who loves you so much he would send his own very son for you. Right. Which is which is a message they do not hear at all. Right. They don't hear at all. Muslims are pretty strictly on works.

Right. So you got another common objection is on sin, where they think that adhering to the to the pillars and adhering to the Koran is what leads to righteousness. How hard is it to convince them that grace is the only door to dealing with sin?

Well, it's you know, I suppose it depends on the person and the openness of their heart. And and with Muslims, usually it takes years and years of of them hearing the same thing and and God working in their lives. But they don't believe that Adam sinned or that there's any sort of imputed sinfulness.

There's no there's there's there are no consequences passed on from Adam's sin. And so they believe because Adam was a prophet. Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah. So they say Adam made a mistake. He. Yeah. He he ate from the tree.

He wasn't supposed to. Actually, the Koran says that God ordered them not to go anywhere near the tree and they did go near the tree. So. So, yeah, there are lots of that. The Koran, I'll tell you, is actually quite entertaining.

It's also very difficult to read. But in the parts where there are similarities, it's quite entertaining as well. But anyway, so so I think, though, the world, the reality, reading the newspaper, talking to people about what they've experienced is a great way to demonstrate the existence of sin. It's clearly everywhere. Laura Powell is our guest today as we continue on Truth Talk Live. No, we're not in Egypt or Morocco. We're here in the United States talking about the Our Strong Tower Conference and the Ministry to Muslims Network here on the East Coast, the Ministry to Muslims dot com.

Laura Powell is our special guest. And we have blazed past this hour so far talking about Islam. And how we how we witnessed the Muslims and how how that comes about. So before the break, we were talking about common objections by Muslims to Christianity, and we didn't quite get to one, which is real important. So if you could give me your elevator speech on on this, the the Muslim will tell you that Christian Bible that's corrupted, that's been corrupted over time and is not reliable. So how do we answer that?

I hear that all the time. And, you know, I mean, we could point to the over 5800 Greek manuscripts, the over 20000 manuscripts in other languages, the embarrassing details that are included, the the similarities in the gospels on the main event and the and the you know, some different observations and details, all the things that make for genuine eyewitness testimony if you talk to any cold case detective, for example, or detective of any kind. But my favorite response, actually with Muslims, is that the Koran actually testifies to repeatedly to the divine inspiration, authority and preservation of the Bible, of the Torah and the gospels. The Torah being the first five books of the Bible, the gospels. It says the gospel. It means the fourfold gospel.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And so so I just say to people, that's not what your Koran says. Do you know? I don't get them.

I don't get them going. That will that will and most and you know, the Koran was not written to be read and understood. It was written to be recited. And so Muslims get points with a law toward you mentioned earlier, you know, it's a it's a workspace religion. They get credit for reciting the Koran with the correct intonation, making the correct movements as they recite it. But but it's only permissible to read it in Arabic. And according to the leaders and only about 15 percent of Muslims know any form of Arabic. Exactly.

And even those who know Arabic don't know classical like old school, you know, eighth century Arabic. This is why the clerics are so important. That's right. That's right.

Exactly. Because they can do the Shahada or whatever they call that. All of the things they've got names for all of them.

The Zakat and the Suam and the things that they do. And it's works. They're just lining up the works that you think are going to bring you back into, you know, righteousness with God. Yeah. You know, that's a you know. It leads us to another point when we say that. Folks in Islam in even inside of the Koran itself agree that the Bible is true and certainly the Torah is true. One of the struggles with that, then, is the common errors that Christians make about Islam. And that is, well, Allah is the same thing as God. And we're both kind of following the same God because after all, they follow Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, don't they?

Yeah. And that is I hear that often as well. And that is a huge mistake. We do not worship the same God. It is true that Allah just means God.

And so let's listen close to this, folks, because we're under the learning tree right now. Allah is not the Christian God. Right. So so Allah does it just means God. But what they ascribe to God, to to to Allah is entirely different than what the truth is about God. And so, for example, they as we mentioned earlier, they will say, well, God is an an absolute singularity, an undifferentiated monad. He is not triune at all. They will say that he has he he is someone who would never suffer or die in any way for humans, even to to save humanity. He is not a father in any way, shape or form. Even metaphorically, they will just oftentimes kind of lose their minds.

Even once I clarify the whole sex issue, they will still have a problem with with a metaphor. Fatherhood. Right.

Fatherhood of God in general. Right. Exactly. So so this is and in many other ways, this is a very different being. As far as who Jesus is, there are completely different beliefs.

We've talked about that as far as who humanity is, who we are as people. This is different. So they believe there is no fall of man. There is no imputed sin.

There is no such thing as opportunity for imputed righteousness through faith by grace there. And so there are huge differences there. And so, you know, there are huge differences between Shia and Sunni.

And they can't even agree on what God tells them that they're supposed to do. Right. This is true.

This is true. And so I give this example. I say, you know, let's let's say that you.

So, OK, so first of all, if you go and open an Arabic Bible, a Christian Bible, genuine, bona fide Christian Bible that's written in Arabic, you'll see a lot as the as a word used for God. But that does not mean we worship the same God, the same being. And the example I give people is let's say that two people are talking about how they know Laura Powell.

Right. And and then one person is like, oh, yeah, I know Laura Powell. She lives in Alaska and she went to the University of Anchorage and she never goes outside. She hates to play sports. And, you know, she doesn't know how to read. She struggles with reading.

And the other person is like, wait a minute. I know Laura Powell and she lives in North Carolina and she loves sports. In fact, she paid for college on a tennis scholarship and she loves to read. She's obsessed with reading.

In fact, she spends more money than she has on books. I don't this is clearly not the same person just because they have the same name, just because. And Allah is not his name. God is not his name. We're talking in Islam. Allah has ninety nine names. And so so it's just the word.

We think it's hard to remember all of Jehovah and Elohim. How'd you like to have ninety nine names for God? Right.

Exactly. And I'll point out not one of those ninety nine names indicates and they're all descriptors of him. Like he is the hidden.

He is the inexpressible. He is the, you know, the merciful and this and that. Not one of them indicates that he has any desire for any sort of intimate relationship with us. And the Koran describes him as a slave master and human beings as merely his slaves. And and his slaves cannot know him. His commands are not rooted in his character. So even his commands don't tell us anything about him or his character, who he is. He his his commands are rooted in his power. He likes to give out commands, watch people do them because he's powerful enough to do them. And he can punish if we don't do them. We're talking about a very different. Yeah, that is the very description or the very definition of a capricious God who's real. I mean, what people accuse Christianity of being. You have it in Islam.

A God who sits up there and says, if you don't do it right, I can just crush you when I feel like it. And sometimes I do. Right. Exactly.

And I'll point out his commands are very, very different than ours. A lot of people will say, well, I've looked at the five fold path, you know, and it says to pray. It says to give. It says, you know, some of these things that are similar with to Christianity. They're actually very, very different. In fact, I'm working on a post for women and apologetics right now.

If you don't follow women and apologetics on social media, I'd highly recommend that. But they're there. Even those commands are very different in what is meant by them. But the the Koran instructs people, instructs Muslims to actually go out and to kill non-Muslims everywhere they can find them. And I'm not saying that all Muslims do this. In fact, obviously they don't.

Obviously, they don't. I just said a few minutes ago, they don't even read the Koran in a language they understand in most cases. But those who do understand the Koran and the Hadith know that they are instructed to to rid the world of all but Muslims.

And so we're talking about a very, very different world view, a different God who commands different things. They're commanded to lie if it's convenient to overcome the enemies of Allah. That's right. Exactly.

That is a that is a teaching within Islam known as Taqiyya that you lie and you deceit for the furtherance of Islam. We've got a couple minutes left. Can you give us just a quick preview of our strong tower? What is your speech or your session, your seminar during the conference? What are you going to cover? Yes, I'm very excited about this conference. Ministry to Muslims always brings in excellent speakers from all over the world. Samuel Green.

Dr. Samuel Green is coming from Australia. And there are many other great speakers. My talks are on three critical differences between Islam and Christianity, which are the deity of Jesus, the crucifixion of Jesus and the resurrection of Jesus. And so Islam says that Jesus was not deity, nor did he claim to be, that he was not crucified and that he, of course, then was not resurrected.

They believe he never died, but rather that Allah rose, raised him up directly to heaven without him allowing him to die. And so I'm going to be giving evidence for Jesus claims to deity from both inside and outside the Bible. I'm going to be giving evidence for his crucifixion, which is almost universally accepted by people of all different worldviews. And I'm going to be making a case for his resurrection, not assuming anything supernatural about the Bible, although I do absolutely believe it is the word of God. It's authoritative.

It's inerrant. But but the people we speak to do not necessarily already agree to that. So I'm going to teach people how to make a case for the resurrection.

All right. The conference is in Kannapolis. It's down near Charlotte, North Carolina. Ministry to Muslims dot com. The Our Strong Tower Conference. Go to the Web site.

Thirty dollars gets you all of this information. And folks, the opportunity to hear stories, because when a person is converted out of Islam, they are converted. They are joyful. They have a God who loves them.

And it's it's hard to believe. Laura Powell, folks, get to the Our Strong Tower Conference. Thank you so much for being with us today. Thanks so much for having me. All right. See you tomorrow on Truth Talk Live here on the Truth Network.