A Florist Sued for Her Christian Beliefs!

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This is the Truth Network. So there's the knock on the door and there's the nice little envelope that you open and it is a lawsuit against you. And you thought, well, I'm just a Christian business person. I'm just trying to honor God with my business and I simply stood with my convictions and I didn't do something.

I didn't fall under pressure and make a product or sell a product to a group of people that would go against my relationship with Christ. I wasn't mean about it and then the lawsuit comes. With me right now is really a hero and she has been attacked. She's been sued. This battle has gone on for nearly a decade and I am with the Alliance Defending Freedom. Matt Sharp is her attorney.

He's here too. Matt loves the Lord and he loves to help people live freely in our country and have convictions without the government shoving an agenda down their throat to tell them to compromise. Matt, did you ever think you would be representing Baronelle Stutzman and this whole issue with the flowers?

Just who would have thought a bunch of flowers would cause a lawsuit and put this woman in the crosshairs of some pretty angry people? We've all in our country understood that people have the freedom to live and work consistent with their faith. But what we're seeing more and more is that the government is starting to use laws. We call them sexual orientation gender identity laws to go after people of faith, to tell them that they have to create expression or participate in events that violate their deep convictions. And unfortunately, Baronelle is one of many across the country that's facing this type of government coercion to violate your beliefs as a condition of operating a business.

So Baronelle, take us back. This has been nearly a decade where you were. Tell us about your business, your flower shop, where you're from and all that. And by the way, it's good to have you in North Carolina.

All those shows are all over the country. Welcome to Truth Talk and tell us a little bit about where you're from and kind of how this came about. Thank you. Well, we're a little flower shop in Richmond, Washington. We've been in business for 47 years. We've had all types of employees. We've had all types of customers.

We're on our third generation of prom flowers and we service our community and we love the job that we do. And suddenly something happened that brought your faith in Christ in direct conflict with what was going on with what a customer was demanding or wanting. And then you find yourself on the receiving end of a lawsuit. Is that right? What happened? Yes, sir.

When Washington State, oh, let me go back. One of my favorite customers is Rob Ingersoll and he's one of the gentlemen that's suing us. And Rob and I have been friends for over nine years. He was a great customer.

We enjoyed each other's company. He was very creative. I knew Rob was gay from the beginning, but was never issue. So Rob would come in and say, I want this arrangement for this party or this celebration. And he would pick out an unusual vase or container and say, do your thing. And I love that because I got to go out of the box, create something different and unusual for him.

He loved my arrangements and I loved doing them for him. When Washington State passed the same sex marriage law, Rob had been in twice before and told the girls that he was getting married and wanted to talk to me. So when I found out, I went home and I talked to Darold and I said, you know, what are we going to do about this? And he said, the Bible is very clear on Christ in this church and a marriage between a man and a woman. So it was my job to go back and tell Rob the best way I could, why I couldn't do his wedding. So when Rob came in, started talking about his wedding, I just simply put my hands on his and I said, Rob, I can't do your wedding because of my relationship with Jesus Christ. He said he understood. We talked about his mom walked him down the aisle. We talked about why they wanted to get married. We chit chatted for a while and Rob asked if I would recommend another florist, which I did three.

He did buy his flowers from one of those and we hugged each other and Rob left. He went home and told his partner, Kurt, and Kurt put something on Facebook that simply said, Berenell has every right to believe the way she does, but she hurt our feelings and it went viral from there. The attorney general, without any complaint from Rob or Kurt, picked it up personally, sued me personally, and the ACLU got ahold of Rob and Kurt and also sued me. So we have a corporate and a personal lawsuit that had been combined into one now.

Wow. And Matt Sharp, who's also here with the Alliance Defending Freedom, there's some pretty nasty things. This wasn't just a couple of folks a little bit offended or upended by this. The word got out and then there were some things even encouraged by the attorney general, a public official, against her hate mail, etc. Yeah, for many years she's been receiving that and she can tell you in her own words just the calls that she's received, the security precautions that they've had to take at their shop now, just to protect her safety and all of this.

And we forget that when we hear these stories, they are being lived every day by Berenell and her staff. They're experiencing this every day of what it means to stand firm for their freedom of speech, their freedom to live out their faith. What was the moment, Berenell, for you when you realized in your family, this is game on. I'm under attack. I have to lock the door when I come in here and that sort of thing. When was the moment that you realized that these people really hate me?

When this broke on social media, we have five lines in our shop broke from seven to six. And for two weeks solid, we had unreal phone calls of hate, words I never knew existed. We had computer threats, picketing threats, death threats. We got a security system. I changed the way I went to work.

And now we have a code that if somebody comes in the shop that we feel threatened, we say the code and somebody will call the police. Wow. So did you ever think you're a humble flower maker enjoying floral designs and design and helping people create, you know, guys like me who are calling you, let's see, two minutes before five o'clock on Valentine's Day.

Hey, I need flowers for Julie, help, you know, guys like that, dealing with that and just in the rigors and the rhythm, ebb and flow of floral arrangements. And you've been doing this for how long? Well, our store has been open for 47 years and I've been in the business about 32. Goodness gracious. So you never thought as a believer, how did you come to know Christ as your savior? How did your faith in Christ become prominent in your life?

Well, that's a really interesting story. I was raised in the church. My mom sang in the choir. I sat on the front pew with my little white gloves and patent shoes. I had Bible study in my home. I was what I call a token Christian. I was very involved in the church and I just thought I was pretty cool. But anyway, when my husband and I were dating, he asked me, he said, how's your relationship with Jesus Christ? And since we were on a date and I wanted to be nice, I said, well, it's just fine.

Thank you for asking. But in my heart, I was saying, you little sod off shrimp. How dare you ask me how my relationship with Jesus Christ was? But he was right to ask. I had a relationship with a church, but I did not have a relationship with Jesus Christ.

And there's a big difference. Wow. And so I guess that, did that turn then to what happened when the light came on and you realized, wow, this is, Christ is real and he's the Lord, he's risen. And is he risen in my heart? What happened? Well, right after Daryl and I were married, I found out I had cancer and then my father passed away. And that's when it came to the realization I was going to walk the walk and talk the talk.

And so I had to put my complete trust in him because there was no one else to do that. Wow. And then we fast forwarded how that faith has been a rock for you in this time where your whole business, now you're a national, I was going to say you're a national celebrity, but that's probably not how you want to think of yourself, right? Nope.

Not at all. So I want to talk about how Christ has been real to you, near to you, dear to you in this time, in this major trial where you've been sued, your name has been plastered all over and just the horrible stuff that's happened. I want to get into that a little bit in the next segment. And Matt Sharp, I want to also talk about how our religious liberties are under threat. And what is a Christian to do? And what has Baronelle done?

What has her and her family done to stand strong, not compromise their convictions, but also not back down to the bullies? So we're going to take a quick break and come right back and talk about that right here on Truth Talk. I'm Stu Epperson. I'm going to try to get a picture with all you guys here and I'll post it on my Instagram and my Facebook and Twitter and all that stuff and StuTube and iStunes, but we're going to do that. But we're just so glad you're here. Stay tuned everyone. We're going to come right back with Baronelle's touchman and her attorney Matt Sharp with the Alliance Defending Freedom.

And it's neat that you're going and speaking. It's really cool that you've taken this negative momentum towards you and you've almost like a judo move, turned it to leverage to build others up and encourage others to stand for their freedoms and honor Christ in their business. So what are your convictions about marriage? Should it be between a man and a woman? What are your convictions about the truth of sexuality and same sex marriage? What about the LGBQTP, all those movements?

What about that group? If you're a Christian, do you hold to the biblical view? And then here's the next big question. Are you ready for everything you've ever believed to be attacked?

And we're in a day and age where the law of the land could change in that direction and human religious Christian freedoms are under serious fire. And if you doubt that, then you need to pull a chair up or keep your dial on this radio station or podcast channel. However, you're listening to me. I'm Stu Epperson.

This is Truth Talk. And I'm with a lady who has had decades of success in the floral business, the flower business, the arrangement business, Baronelle Stutzman. Now she, as of about, this has been going on for nine years, has been sued because she would not make her flowers for a homosexual wedding.

And the attorney general in Washington state got wind of it and the full court press of attacks came on like crazy. Matt Sharp, you're with the Alliance Defending Freedom. Set this segment up for us a little bit by telling us why you're in this case. So Alliance Defending Freedom, we are a nonprofit religious law firm that defends our First Amendment liberties. And so in cases like those of Baronelle or Jack Phillips, the Colorado baker, we have individuals that serve everyone that walk into their stores as Baronelle did with Rob having served him for years. And Jack Phillips that serves everyone, but don't want to be forced by the government to participate in specific events, especially events like weddings that have religious significance to so many of us. And so when we're defending them, we're ultimately defending the freedom of all of us, every American, to not have the government come and force you to speak messages you disagree with that violate your faith or participate in events that violate your conscience. Because there are lines that the government should never cross and that includes forcing anyone to violate those deep convictions about marriage or what it means to be man and woman. On the same note, she could have been approached by a leader of a white supremacy racist group or Nazi group that said, hey, we're having a huge convention and we want you to do all the floral arrangements. And she would, by law, have the right to say no to them as well. That's right.

We have seen situations like with Jack Phillips. He told how he wouldn't do a cake with a Confederate flag because he finds that offensive. He wouldn't do a cake with messages attacking someone because of their sexual orientation because he doesn't want to do that. Rather, he wants to honor God with his cakes. And the same thing with Baronelle, that when she creates these elaborate designs, she's expressing a message about marriage, about the couple involved, and she wants to do so consistent with her deeply held religious beliefs about what marriage is and the way to honor God through those marriages.

Yeah, and I like the word consistent. And Baronelle, I love your testimony. You're just a bright, shining witness for Jesus, so thank you for that. I just think it's just interesting that when you watch the mainstream media, especially like you watch these channels, you'll see them and they will report about the baker. And they'll say, well, he wouldn't make a cake for a same sex union, but they won't report the fact that he wouldn't make a cake for a hate group.

He wouldn't make a cake with a Confederate flag. They won't report that stuff. So it's duplicitous. I'm not sure where you get your news from, but I'm glad you're listening. However you're listening to me right now, just listen to the news on this network. But at the same time, Baronelle, I was reading Matthew 5 earlier this week where Jesus said, hey, listen, blessed are you. You know, we like the blesseds of poor in spirit, hunger and thirst after righteousness, blessed are the peacemakers, which you have been. But then he goes on to say, blessed are you when you're persecuted, when men say horrible things against you.

And that's really what's happened. How has your faith taken on a tangible component with all of this happening? He has given us total peace over this. We have been so blessed by this experience. Has it been rough? Is there a price to pay? Absolutely.

But the doors that he's opened, the people we've got to meet, the people that are listening to us now, you know, there's a price for freedom. And if we don't stand up now, there's not going to be anything to stand up for very soon. And one example of that is the Inequality Act, which I'm calling it. It's called the Equality Act.

The current administration is just pushing it forward, which will basically make even this conversation a violation, an attack, an assault on people that disagree with us. Whatever happened, just disagree. Matt Sharp, whatever happened, just disagree with people. But having a good, healthy conversation about it and still being friends like you were with a gentleman who was your customer for all those years. You just said, look, I can't do this. This is my conviction. I still love you.

And here's a great person that'll take care of you. But whatever happened to that, Matt Sharp? You know, one court described it, when we talk about tolerance, it's a two-way street. But what we're seeing is no tolerance for people of faith, no tolerance for those who hold to traditional views about marriage or what it means to be male and female. And so we see things like the Federal Equality Act, the Inequality Act, like you described it, that are being pushed. But it's something that's happening even in North Carolina, that we're now seeing efforts to enact these same laws that were used to go after Barronelle in Washington State.

The same laws used to go after Jack Phillips in Colorado are now a real threat here in North Carolina. And so that's why Barronelle has been traveling around sharing her story. Because when we talk about these, it's not enough just to describe the consequences of them. We have to tell the stories of people in other places that have been personally impacted.

As I remind us, Jesus spoke in parables. He told stories because there's a power to letting people look Barronelle in the eye, to hear her describe for herself all that she's gone through of these several years of this lawsuit and what impact it's had on her, her employees and her family and her business. And that's what we're wanting to do here is let people see the price and the consequences of these sexual orientation gender identity laws like the Equality Act and like the ones being pushed here in North Carolina. So Barronelle, I know a lot of folks, and thank you for that Matt, a lot of folks are thinking, where is the case right now? This has been going on for a long time, all these suits and counter suits and in appeals and all that. The Supreme Court, that particular austere group that name has come up to, where are things right now in the legality of things in the process? Oh, I'll let Matt at you.

Matt, you better tell us that. Okay, I'm gonna go throw back to, that's why we got the suits in here, you know? Okay, anyway, where is the case right now? So Barronelle's case went through the Washington State court system, went to the Washington State Supreme Court, where even there the Attorney General admitted that what she does is expression, it's speech. But nonetheless, believed that the state ought to be able to force her to express messages that she disagreed with. Well, we took her case to the Supreme Court, the court sent her case back to Washington Supreme Court, said, hey, fix this, and they just doubled down, did almost a verbatim cut and paste of their original decision. So now we're back at the US Supreme Court. We've asked the court to review her case. It's been waiting about a year.

We don't entirely know why. But we're hopeful that here in the next couple weeks, maybe a couple months, we're gonna get a decision from the Supreme Court taking her case and giving her the ability to live and work consistent with her beliefs. And what about you? How do you feel about the idea of going all the way to the Supreme Court?

What do you think? Well, that wasn't on my bucket list, but I will tell you, if the Supreme Court denies our case, then we possibly can lose everything we own, our life savings, our retirement, the things we've saved for our children and our grandchildren. Our employees will lose their job.

The city will lose their taxes. We don't get to wait on the customers. We've waited on them for 47 years. And, you know, this freedom is not free, and there's gonna be a cost. But if we don't stand up, if we don't speak out, you know, people say, Oh, I'm behind you 100%. I don't need you behind me.

I need you beside me, because we have to start standing up. Okay, and that's the voice of Baronelle Stutzman, the owner of a successful florist in Washington State. And her crime, simply saying, You know what, it's against my religious convictions, my faith in Jesus to host my flowers at this homosexual wedding. She referred other florists out.

Everything was fine. But then it raised a huge thing through social media. Now she's on the receiving end in a nine-year battle, folks. This has gone on for nine years, being sued and sued again and being defamed and hated and cursed in absolute evil things, and hate mail has been directed at Baronelle. Baronelle, close us with how we can pray for you. A lot of folks listening out there, though they've never met you, they love you. And a lot of folks out there are gonna be appealing to the real Supreme Court of God, who will hold every judge that's ever lived in contempt and who rules and reigns forever.

The earth is his footstool. He's the judge, and he's the one that you have sought to please, and we're so grateful for the convictions you have before the Lord. You've inspired me just talking to you and so many out there, and you've spoken and you've probably a book, and maybe one day we'll come out about all it. Who knows?

But some cool stuff, but I hope so. But Baronelle, tell us how we can pray for you and be lifting you up, everyone listening. If you would pray for the Supreme Court, that you would give them wisdom to see how important this is, whether we're religious or not, because if we lose our freedom, you lose yours. And to pray that Darrell and I will be faithful. God has been so faithful to us, and we just want to be faithful to him. And to pray that, give people courage to stand and speak out. You know, Rob and Kurt have every right to live consistent with their beliefs, and we're only asking for the same.

Yeah, okay. You're not forcing a lifestyle on them. You're not hating them.

You've been very kind and dignified with them. You're simply standing with your convictions, and they can go live. That's the beauty of the Judeo-Christian faith.

That's the beauty of America. But people are trying to change that, so that not just do you have to compromise your beliefs, but the other side won't rest until you are actually condoning and championing and joining in. And there is an attack right now, Matt Sharp with the Alliance Defending Freedom. Your ministry is so critical.

What's the website? People can learn more about this. They can visit ADFLegal.org, short for Alliance Defending Freedom, ADFLegal.org, where they can learn more about Baranel's case and other creative professionals like her across the country that are facing similar attacks on their ability to live and work consistent with their faith. And again, the point we want to go back to in all of this is this is, whether it's Baranel or Jack Phillips or the others, people that gladly serve everyone, but are simply seeking the freedom to operate consistent with their faith and to not be forced by the government.

And that's what these laws do, these SOGI laws do, is give the government a weapon to go after people of faith and to force them to violate their deepest convictions. Website one more time. Website is ADFLegal.org. Check us out, this whole thing, the podcast at TruthTalk.com.

Learn more there. Thank you to all of our affiliates for standing by this program. And thank you, Baranel, for your stand, your family, for your whole stand in Christ. We're grateful for you. Prayer Warriors, pray before your head hits the pillow tonight. This is the Truth Network.