The Religious Liberties Commission Hearing

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So stay hydrated, stay healthy, and without further ado, let's start the show. You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis, and welcome back to the studio.

All of our listeners, all of our viewers, we are so glad you're here with us today. Joining in on the conversation, got a great, great conversation. We're so excited to share with you guys. But before we do any of that, I want to welcome our host, Dr. Abadan Shah, who's a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show.

Dr. Shah, welcome, welcome, welcome. Thank you. Good to be here. Good to see you guys.

Dr. Shah, I wanted to read a check-in before we do anything else today. One of our check-ins came, this was an Apple podcast comment that someone left.

Okay, great. As a review, really, I should say. I am forever grateful for an awesome church family and leader.

So I think this person goes to our church. Sundays being in church is the most comforting day for me and sets the week as well as strengthens me in my Christian walk. This podcast has just escalated that for me as I turned off the music radio and my morning drive to work is now this awesome podcast, as well as my drive home. If you haven't tuned in, do it one time, and I promise you, you will tune in every day. God bless you, and thank you.

For the guidance you all provide. Thank you, Dr. Shaw, for your daily leadership on our faith and dedication to following God's Word. Wow, that's amazing. That was a glowing review, very much.

In fact, you know what? Grateful. Give some gratefulness to that review. And we appreciate people taking the time to do that. It really helps us.

If you haven't done that, if you haven't done that in a while, please do it. Take the time just to leave us, even if it's a sentence, two sentences. It not only helps us, but it also helps somebody else. That's right. Who may be, you know, just checking out what is out there in the Christian world, what is biblically based, what is loving and kind, but at the same time, very strong on biblical morals and values and ethics.

And so this is that show. And it's also funny. That's right. I mean, our show is not the typical show, which is like, you know, really straight laced, which we are, but we're also quite entertaining. That's right.

And that comes from this guy, right here.

Well, I've got a lot of help. Master Rob Ryan next to him. David over there and Nick and others. I mean, Adam, I mean, this is coming from these guys. Yeah.

Ryan's bringing in the humor with his wardrobe a lot. I've noticed you're really leaning into the whole thing. I'm leaning into it.

Well, we're firmly in summer now. I mean, I feel like we are into the summer months. But you've not been a Hawaiian shirt guy previous to these last couple of years. Mommy. Did something happen?

Did your dad start wearing them more? No. No, you just like them? I mean, they look good on you. I'm not making.

I appreciate that. I don't think you look silly. It's just inconsistent with everything I've known about you for the past 10 years. Yeah, well, I mean, Melakaliki Maka is the wisest way to say Merry Christmas to you. How's that?

Huh? Kidding me? What? All right, so we've introduced a new segment on our show called Proverb or Naverb. And typically what's happened is ChatGPT has given us a list of obscure proverbs and some fake ones, and then Dr.

Shah and Ryan. Which I feel like ChatGPT is starting to learn. Yeah, I think the fake proverbs or the noverbs are getting a little more difficult to suss out. I wanted to give Dr. Shah's mind a rest for a little bit because he's been traveling.

We're going to talk about that a little bit later today. He's been speaking. He's been preaching. He's been writing. I figured, you know what?

Let's not throw a quiz at this guy. Let Dr. Shah host Proverb or Naverb one time and maybe you and I could go head to head.

So, Dr. Shah, I believe you have a list on your phone of some proverbs.

Some naverbs. Listen, why don't we? These have been given to me by John. I didn't look at them, though. Oh, you haven't looked at them.

I have not looked at them. They were randomly generated, and I texted them without having seen them. All right, I'm ready.

So here we go. The first one: A gentle tongue is a tree of life. But perverseness in it breaks the spirit. You want to go first? I'll go first.

Yeah, go first. I feel like that is a proverb. Yes. Hey, hey. Good job, Ryan.

I got nervous. That was Proverbs 15, verse 4.

Okay. He who plants thorns must not expect to gather roses. He who plants thorns? Oh, no Must not expect to be. I'm gonna go proverb.

Nah. No. No. That was a fan. I was like, who in the world would plant thorns?

I should have gone with my gut. I should have called my gun on that one. Better is open rebuke than hidden love. better as open rebuke than hidden love. Open her beat the head love.

I'm gonna say no verb. Proverbs 27:5. I gave you the right one. It was actually wrong, my bad. A wise man builds his house on the sand But a fool's foundation is dust.

A wise man builds his ha house on the sand? That's a not verb. Yeah. I was like, what is happening here? I don't think that's true.

A wise man builds his house on the sea. I thought that was the opposite of what Jesus said. Yeah. The wise woman builds her house but with her own hands the foolish tears it down. Come on, Ryan, you got it.

Say it one more time. The wise woman builds her house, but with her own hands the foolish tears it down. I'm gonna say no verb. Proverbs 14:1. Man, the wise woman built her house.

Oh, that would have got me.

Well that's what I was thinking. I was like. I don't remember. I mean, it's in there.

Okay. Fair enough. A lion shall lie down with the lamb, and a child shall lead them. Got to be a proverb. NAVRB.

What? That's a not verb? I'm assuming. No way. Yeah.

We've been bamboozling. I thought for sure that was. I mean, now it is in Isaiah. Yeah. Isaiah?

Yes, but not maybe not. Maybe that's what is being said. Because you just preached on it a couple of times. But it's not written like that. Gotcha.

Five. Number seven. The Rich and the Poor Meet Together The Lord is the Maker of them all. I'm going to say proverb. Yes.

Pray. Yeah. He who fetches water in his sieve. will never find a whale. Mm.

Navarb? Yeah. Oh, good job. That was just a gut. I was like, that certainly could be one.

Yeah. As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly. That's a proverb. Yeah. Good job, Proverbs 26, verse 11.

Everybody's favorite. The mountains shall dance and the rivers shall sing when the righteous prevail. Ooh, that sounds like a proverb. Man. Brutal.

See, that's what I'm saying. Like, I think that AI is learning. It's making it a little more difficult. I think you took that one, man. I think you took that one home.

I don't know. I feel like we were pretty close. No, I think I got more wrong than you. All right. That's proverb and number.

Dr. Shuck, you're fantastic, coach. Thank you, my friend.

So, our verse of the day today is coming from Ephesians chapter 6, verse 19. And for me, that utterance may be given to me that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel. Noticed how too many Christians have forgotten how to do that, how to open their mouth and speak boldly. And, you know, what we wanted to talk about today kind of revolves around that: how we're in dire need, not only of Christians, but I would say of pastors who have remembered that that's what God has called us to do, to open our mouths, to speak the words of the gospel. Right.

If I can give a story to illustrate that passage and its relevance to us where we are in America today, growing up, at one point, we had two dogs. One was this older dog, and his name was Smokey.

Okay. And the younger one, I forgot his name now. Anyways, so these two dogs, the older one, the younger one, and they got along fine. And, you know, dogs back where I grew up were not just as pets. They were sort of for protection.

So, this was in India. In India.

Okay, yes, growing up in India. And protection in the sense, not that they will jump up and bite. people and Attack. dogs or anything like that. But they were enough to deter criminals from coming inside our church compound or, you know, uninvited guests, so to speak.

And they were there also to keep animals out. Because my dad had a beautiful garden, and sometimes these goats, I mean, they wander the streets, and unfortunately, they still do that. Goats in the streets? Oh, yeah. You see goats and cows and pigs.

Yeah, you see them.

So. Wow. Just coming up in your dad's garden? Oh, they would get inside the fence. He had a beautiful fence and not like a.

you know, white picket fence. Right, right. But this was a fence like a wired fence. They would sometimes find that little hole and get in and come. Right.

Yeah, he even had a like a netting inside the fence. And the goat would get in and then they would eat the roast I was about to say a goat in a garden is good. Yeah, that's a bad thing. Oh, man. I mean, and my dad had these rare plants and rose bushes.

And I mean, he got them from all over India, way up north in Kashmir. He got them from there, or way south in Kerala. I mean, he got.

Some of the rarest plants. Anyways, the goats would come in.

So the dogs were supposed to keep. The goats out there. Smokey, the older one, was very good at that. He would sense it. He could see, he would perk up.

And he would immediately dart and he would head in the direction where he knew the goats were coming in.

Now, keep in mind, there was a massive church building. Right. and the compound all around. Our house was sort of uh on the the southeast end of that church building. Again, I don't know exactly how the directions work, but anyways, hope that makes sense.

But somehow he knew and he would Dart off. We didn't even see what was on the other side of the biggest massive church building in front of us. And the other dog would also, I think his name was Boxer. That's what he was. Boxer.

Yeah, yeah. and he would take off behind him. But when they got to the fence, And Smokey would start barking and going after the goat to get her out of there. And sometimes there's like more than one goat would get in. Guess what the box well guess what the boxer would do?

He would immediately jump. On Smokey and start barking at him. Really? Yeah. What?

Why? Yeah, I mean. Just confused, didn't know what was going on? Yeah, he would like stop him. And then Smokey was kind of get confused.

And this would happen every time. And over the summer, multiple times a day. And he would get confused. You're sabotaging the operation. Yeah, and then he would just kind of back up.

And just go. You know, flopped down somewhere. Wow. And I was like, what's wrong with this dog? Is he getting a kickback from the GOATs?

I mean, what is inside man? Him and the goats are in cahoots. What is the benefit that this dog gets from stopping? This old veteran guard dog from doing his job. I mean, he should be learning from the mentor.

Right. Yeah. But instead, he is stopping him. We never understood that. It was just a big joke in our family.

Like, look at this. Is he a goat? Is he a goat in disguise? Is he working with the goat? You end up having to keep him away from the revolution.

Never understood that. Never understood that, but it stayed with me. And I mean, this was when I was like maybe six, seven years of age watching this. I was just thinking funny. Phenomenon.

Yeah. It's pretty relevant. I can see exactly what you're talking about as far as where we're at in America today. See, people are standing up. for truth for biblical values.

And immediately, it's people who we think are with us and understand the deeper issues. They are the ones who turn and Try to keep us from speaking out Christian values. And sometimes they will try to browbeat us academically. Oh, you don't understand that. You don't, you know, I have a doctorate or something.

And of course, I have a doctorate too. I have a bona fide PhD in New Testament textual criticism. You announce that every time.

So we're not ignorant people. I'm a scholar. Not only that, but I'm also A pastor in a community where we have all kinds of people and have been here way before I got here. Close to 60% African Americans, 30-some percent whites, maybe 5% Hispanics, maybe 1 or 2% where I fall in. It's a divided community sometimes.

And so Uh To say that you don't understand, you're coming from. White privilege. That really doesn't work for me. Right. I mean, how do you see that?

You've kind of got the immunity card on that one. Right. And how can you even say that you don't understand what people have to. No, I'm in a community where people. Have had to face racism or prejudice for a long time.

So, this is not coming from my little bubble or ivory tower that I don't get it. No, I get it very well. And to say that we don't understand Conservative issues and conservative politics, and politics is dirt. No, we get it. You are underestimating what not only me, but Hundreds of thousands of Americans.

across this country understand. That if we don't fight for our nation right now, for biblical values for our nation, that we are about to lose. We're about to lose the last front in the West. If America goes, there's nothing else. There's no one else who's out there standing.

Not only for conservative values, but for biblical values. Do you think that's God's design? That America is that lone voice right now? I mean, I don't know if it's God's design or not, but America is. Yeah.

I mean, who in Europe is right now truly fighting back? Of course, there are people here, here and there, in England and other places in Europe, but overall. It's only in America that we're seeing a big turnaround. Right. Not on a lot in Europe, but not on a large scale like we have in America.

I guess the. Boxer component. I'm going to use the analogy of your dogs. The boxer contingent that. Pounces and tries to defend the goats that are coming in and tries to defend our press or prevent the guard dog.

Right. And don't misunderstand. When we say goat, we're not talking about just the immigration problem or something like that. Don't misunderstand that. And I'm sure there's somebody somewhere, and you need to look in the mirror and realize you're not being truthful when you do that.

We're talking about just. Values. We're referring to that.

So when we talk about the fence and people coming in or goats coming in, we're not talking about just immigration. We're talking about liberalism that has, for the past decade or two, has been coming for a long time, but for the past decade or two, really has ramped up its efforts to intimidate and browbeat. The believing community, the faith community in America. That's what we're talking about. That's a great point.

That's a great clarification. Has that contingent always been there and we're just seeing them more vocally in these past few years? Or is this a new development that there's this kind of pushback against conservativism? That's a great question. And I think This this group today, I would say in the past Let's just make it 10, 15 years, okay, since President Obama's time.

I would say is a whole different breed. Previously, you could sort of work with people on the other side of the aisle and say, Hey, listen, let's work together on this.

Okay, all right. I will back away on this if you back away on this, or if you help me on this bill, I will help you on that bill. There was some kind of an understanding, but For the past ten, fifteen years, you have seen a whole different spirit. A spirit well, we will make you do this, we will make churches and and if churches do and and that's when Christians have to stand up and say this is not right. And for us to still be supporting people or advocating for people who support these kind of anti-Christian values.

I don't know where you stand. I don't know what your convictions are anymore. And you cannot hide behind long academic diatribes. It doesn't work for me. Yeah.

That's just a way of That's a boxer's way of silencing Smokey. Right, right. And, you know, we see a lot of, I think one of the differences that at least I've seen is that there's extremes on both sides. There's radicals on the conservative side. Yeah.

There's radicals on the liberal side. But what I see conservatives do is when they see radicals on their own side, and you've done this, we've done this on the show. We say, hey, that's not right. We don't stand with those people. I don't see that on the liberal side as much at all.

Because if someone is very radical on the left, people who are a little further of center will say, well, look. I might not do that, but they're fighting for the right cause and they're doing the right thing. Like, no one would ever say that. On the conservative side, they say, No, we disavow those people. There's a willingness on one side and there's an unwillingness on the other.

And I think that that's really harmed us. And Dr. Shah, I know maybe this is something else we can talk about, is that we're Seeing this change. This shift back towards conservative values, and not just conservatism, but the actual values that make the conservative movement what it is. especially with religious liberty.

Yeah. And do you want to talk about what you were able to do? Just yesterday, actually. Yeah. Two days ago.

Two days ago. Two days ago. Well, before I do that, I just want to mention the Minnesota state representative who was killed, she and her husband, by this leftist radical because she chose to side with the Republican Party because she felt like, as difficult as it is, well, this I'm talking about, Melissa Hortman and her husband. As difficult as this decision was, that this was the right decision. And this was sort of the spirit at one time.

I'm not saying everybody joined in. No, there was a spirit of let's work together. This nation is worth preserving. This nation has values that no one else has, and we need to make sure that we work together, we work in unity, in unison. And her life was taken.

that tells you where the mind is. The heart is of a lot of people on the left. That's right. The radicals. Yes, so.

I was invited to be at the first Religious Liberty Commission hearing in DC on June with the Monday. And this was to get the data right. This was on June the 16th. And so I was there, and I was able to sit in on that. And it was.

It was like a breath of fresh air. Really? Yeah. I didn't I had to pinch myself several times to know are we really talking about Religious liberty for all. And again, this was not just like only for Christians, this was for all people.

But it was so wonderful to sit there and to hear questions asked and to hear different experts and scholars in the field. Come and sit and answer questions. from the commission. From the members of the commission regarding the First Amendment, regarding the Establishment Clause, regarding things like the Johnson Amendment, challenging that. That churches cannot speak out.

And so all of this. was um was a result of President Trump establishing the li the Religious Liberty Commission on the National Day of Prayer back in May of twenty twenty five. And I was there for that event as well at the White House, and it was amazing. Yeah. And this was the first hearing.

What was your reaction when that email came through, that invitation? Oh, I mean, I was surprised and I was humbled. And grateful that I was invited to come there. And of course, I took my son Thomas with me. And of course, our sound engineer in the back over there, David Williamson, who does a lot of here in assisting me.

So all three of us went and we were able to go inside. And we sat on the front row. Of the hearing. Yeah. Are you able to talk about what all was discussed in the hearing?

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Okay. What all did, like, how did the how did it go? What was the kind of order of events?

So Dan Patrick, who's the lieutenant governor of Texas, he is heading, he's the chairman of this commission. And then Dr. Ben Carson, he is the vice chairman. Other people who were there were people like Kelly Shackelford with Liberty One. Also Dr.

Phil, who he doesn't need an introduction. Yeah, I saw him at the, I saw that he was at the prayer, he was at the prayer thing, the National Day of Prayer, but I didn't. Expect to see that he was on the board of the Religious Liberty Commission. Yeah. Yeah.

I didn't, I didn't know that. Yeah, so so he was there as well. And there were several other people. Allison Hoe was there. Carrie Ballard was there.

She is Miss USA. And so a lot of people who are top-notch in their field who are part of that commission. The others who couldn't be there were like Franklin Graham or Cardinal Dolan. They had some other appointments, and one of them could not be there because of. A canceled plane.

Right. Wow. Yes. But they are on that board. On that commission.

Gotcha. And there's another hearing coming up. But it was great because they were taking notes. A Jewish rabbi was there as well, who's part of this commission.

So they were taking notes. Taking down all information they could from experts in the field so that they could go before President Trump. In 2026. And make recommendations. I mean, they are.

Going to directly advise the President to make decisions that will ensure. are First freedom rights. Wow. For generations to come.

So you were able to sit down on that hearing. Were you able to talk to any of those people? Oh, yes. Yes. Several of the senators.

I talked to a senator from California, a senator from Michigan, senator from our own state of North Carolina, Senator Ted Alexander, he was there.

So that was wonderful to talk to him. Great. Down-to-earth person. He was right on the front row. And so.

Uh i it was Uh educational But it was also very Uplifting that we are now discussing things. For example, the court case against those people who refused to bake cakes and said for that homosexual wedding, they were not going to do that. But they also gave other options: like, look, we could do this, we could help you here. But you knew that. there was an agenda coming from the gay community to just harass this couple.

Right. That should not have happened. For over ten years, for that to be stuck in the Supreme Court, that is unacceptable In the 21st century, it is unacceptable. I didn't realize it was still there. I didn't realize it was still going on.

Wow. Yes. I mean, the couple had to move all the way to Montana. I mean, it it's it's ridiculous that this kind of stuff goes on. And and then constantly.

To be harassed, that if a pastor speaks out on conservative values, oh, you separation of church and state. We had someone try that with us on Facebook afterwards. Yeah, yeah. It's called There's a Beautiful Button. Yeah.

Just like President Trump talked about the big, beautiful bill. There's a beautiful, big, beautiful button. It's called Delete. That's right. We will delete you.

Hell yeah. Hell yeah. It's a magical button. Yeah, there's always going to be trolls out there. But it's like you said, they hide behind this idea of separation in church and state, which is really, I don't think me personally, not John, but the idea is pastors shouldn't be involved in politics at all.

Either because it's dirty or just because I don't want you influencing politics, because really I hold those ideals. I don't know what the issue is. I think it's just a way to silence somebody who speaks. I put them in the same category as my dog growing up, Boxer. What was his motive?

I don't know. Maybe deranged. Yeah. Could be. We can't rule that out as a possibility.

Maybe you were groomed in liberal politics. And I know this person, they're groomed in liberal leftist garbage. And I get it. You want to be accepted by your friends so you can put on party hats and dance at parties celebrating gay love. I mean, I get it.

You're doing that, but you cannot silence me. It's not acceptable.

So people have their ulterior motives for trying to silence Christians and pastors and churches. And it was great to hear that a lot of this will be repealed. Yeah. It's good that you were able to actually go and be there and be invited. Number one, just the honor of being invited to something like that.

It's huge. That's not just like open access to the entire public because you were invited to be a part of it. Right. But then seeing the hope. You know, it's easy for us to talk on the radio and say, hey, listen, good days are coming.

But when you're actually there and you're seeing and you're hearing these conversations happening and you're seeing that there's a plan to put this stuff into or hearing on social media because a lot of times, and by the way, it's a great. Times a lot of good is happening right now in our country, which I'm very proud of and very happy and praising God for. But sometimes a lot of that information gets distorted or twisted.

So by the time it comes to us, it has been sort of Um I don't know what's the best way to say that, but it has been twisted to serve some agenda that I'm not aware of. And I buy into that, or people buy into it, and then you go, whoa, wait, oh. I don't know about that now.

So it was great to be sitting there firsthand hearing them talk. And it was not just. Freedom of religion just for Christian people. It was Jewish people, it was Muslim people, it was Hindus, whoever you are, Native Americans. You know, right now there's a case out there where a Native American sacred ground has been bought by a company for mining purposes.

Now that shouldn't be happening.

Now somebody may say it was like, oh, they're just nice. you know, Native Americans. That should matter to us. That's right. Because if they're going after their sacred ground, then tomorrow they may go after a church.

And by the way, that company. that's bought that land for pretty cheap and and is driving away the people there. Is from China.

So that makes sense.

So, yeah.

So, it's time Americans spoke up and said, no, that's not acceptable. Amen. It's encouraging to hear it. And I know I speak for the two of us and many of our listeners. We say, We're proud of you as our leader, as our pastor, for being part of that, for being a part of that positive movement toward change and toward a focus on religious liberty.

And I'm excited to see how it's going to evolve because, like you said, being invited to the White House. For the prayer, National Day Prayer. That's one thing. But then to know, this is only the beginning. Like, God is making steps here at this little church in North Carolina to start setting up something that we can't even imagine.

Amen. Amen. Amen. Guys, make sure you join us tomorrow. Same time, same station.

We're going to be diving into another great topic here on the Clearview Today Show. Thanks again to our sponsors for making today's episode possible. And don't forget that you can support us by subscribing to the show on iTunes. And you can always support us financially at clearviewtodayshow.com. John, what do you want to close with today?

We just crossed 15,000 follows on Pray.com. We want to go ahead and I would say let's get to 15.5, but we're actually almost there at the time of this recording. Let's get up to 16,000, huh? Let's do 20. Let's get to 20,000.

Yeah, let's do that. We'll hit it. We'll hit it hard. We're going to get to 20K. Thank you so much for following.

Thank you so much for giving and supporting us financially every single month. We appreciate you. We love you and we value you. That's right. We love you guys.

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