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This is kind of a great thing, and I'll tell you what. Where pop culture, current events, and theology all come together. Speak your mind. And now, here's today's Truth Talk Live host. Good afternoon, Truth Talk listeners.
Welcome to Truth Talk Live. My name is Alicia Grimes, and I'm here in the studio with my good friend, my brother in Christ, Pastor Joel Kavala. He's here from Kenya, and so when I realized he was in town this week, I said, Joel, we got to get you on the show. And so he was excited to come in and really tell some of his story, the story of what God is doing in Kenya, how God is moving, and also to give us some encouragement as believers here. I always have great conversations with Joel.
He's such an encourager. He's such a source of just wisdom and love for the Lord. And so I'm excited to be here with Joel. He's also a lot of fun. And so I just enjoy being around you.
And I love your family. We'll get to some questions about your family. Tell us what you're doing here for the next.
Well, you've been here about a week and going to be in the States another week or so, and what are you up to? Visiting US. Thank you so much, Alicia. I call Mama Abigail. Because I stayed with we stayed with the hubby girl in my home for six six weeks and it was it was a good connection.
The reason why I came to US is to visit with the friends and churches that has been that have been involved in my family and what the Lord is doing. in us and through us. to advance his kingdom in Kenya.
So charity visiting to catch up with our friends and the supporting churches.
Well, you have a lot of people who love you and love Jesus and love to see what. What God is doing in Kenya.
So tell us, I guess, just to get this started, because this is a big part of why you're here. What are you doing in Kenya? How are you seeing God work? And tell us about your seminary.
However you want to start. Thank you, Alicia. I always say this is God's story in our story. Right. When I was in seminary um between uh two thousand three two thousand seven I was praying.
Sometimes we pray, and we may not know what we are asking God. But God is our Father.
Sometimes as Fathers, We understand what our kids want. If What our children want before they can even say what they really want. And I was praying, Lord, please send me where no one wants to go. That tells you that I was really excited about the missions. and serving among the least rich communities we have in Kenya.
And of course, some of the these communities are unreached. Yeah. and I was praying and asking God to lead me to lead me to that. And during my um That year at seminary, we I connected to Winston-Salem. more precisely with the Calvary Baptist Church, And a Bible study, Danny Spencer Bible study, because they sent short-term mission team to come to a seminary where I was.
And I was um Connected to that group very strongly. It was a it was a strong link. And we kept the conversation. And 20 years later. In 20 years, 20 years later, it's still a strong link.
Those bonds are even stronger. Yes, and that I continue, the Lord continued to nurture that relationship.
So. When I finished seminary, I went to plant a church at the slums, one of the slums in Nairobi, outskirt of Nairobi, a place called Ongata Rongai. And that team from Calvary Baptist continued to come and give me the support I needed. And when I was there, I felt the Lord was calling me to do an outreach an outreach to the communities that are least reached or evangelized. And I started a mobile Bible school.
Why I call it mobile? Because I was moving from one place to another and sharing the gospel with these tribal groups. The Lord blessed my effort in a very special way. I was a pastor. I was a missionary, a father and an husband.
and a friend.
So While I was doing that work, some challenges came into my life because Kenya is. It's not like America, where Americans speak one language, which is good. Kenya speaks over 60 languages. Wow.
So some of these groups I was visiting. And we don't even speak English well, so we have one language. From where I stand, you speak English well.
So that's good.
So the greatest challenge I faced was the language barrier. There was a language barrier because some of these communities I was reaching, I would. preach or teach to them through a translator. And after sharing my vision of starting a seminary with them. Which was tiresome because I would ride my Subru Forester for seven thousand seven hundred kilometers one way to reach those communities.
And these communities, they don't live they live in a very harsh climatic area.
Sometimes we almost suffocated because the temperature went very high. It is very hot, it is very dusty, and in Kenya, most of these communities, these areas are classified as dangerous zone because. of the tribal fighting uh tribes are fighting each other and sometimes militia groups.
So it it was not easy, but I continued to engage uh our brothers worldwide about what the Lord was putting into my heart. And praise God, the the vision my vision was was accepted by Americans more precisely. From Calvary Baptist Church in two cities. They gave out money to start a seminary. And you know, in our lives we have people of all kinds.
Who can come, and sometimes we don't listen to them. But this time around, God helped me to listen to them. A friend of mine played a role of Jethro in my life. He told Joe, we are so much excited about what you're doing with mobile. Bible's cool, but from w the way I look at it, you you cannot sustain it.
Can you have a centralized training of pastors? because that one is sustainable. and do not wear yourself down. And also, you will have enough family for your uh enough family time.
So that's how Emmanuel Theological Seminary got started. And last year, we started our class And we have fifteen students. We are all we are eighty five percent complete, and the Lord is blessing our effort. other than myself going to these tribal tribes, These pastors who can speak the languages of those tribal groups, they are the ones who are coming, and I'm training them together with other men, and the Lord has really blessed our efforts. The Bible says God is more able to do exceedingly and abundantly than what we think or imagine.
That is the testimony I can share.
Now. Oh, Joel, thank you so much for sharing that. And I have just loved. We've We connected with you through our daughter, Probably around 2017, maybe 2016. It's been several years.
Yes. And she had a heart to be overseas and to experience missions and was able to travel and live with your family for several weeks of a summer. And that was really impactful for her. And then I remember the first time we talked to you on the phone. Yes.
And I was like, okay, I really like. This man and his family.
So, we're going to go to a break in just a minute. But when we come back, I want you to tell us about your family and what life looks like for you, and maybe some of the challenges for church planting and the seminary and the pastors that you're training up for the sake of the gospel.
So, we'll be right back. Thank you. If you want to call in, the number is 866-348-7884. Thank you. To the top.
You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. Again, I'm here with my friend Joel Kavala. All the way from Kenya, and we're just talking about what God is doing in Kenya through. Using Joel, but it's God's mission.
He always wants to make that clear.
So, my husband and I met Joel a few years ago when our daughter Abigail wanted to visit another place and be part of what God was doing. And so, that's where we first connected.
So, Joel, tell me a little bit about your family. You can tie in the Abigail connection, but. Yeah, I am um Married to Elizabeth, and Elizabeth was raised at a pastor's home at a very strict Pastors sometimes are very strict with their kids, and Elizabeth is such a kind of a lady. And I have been raised by A policeman in a polynomial family. You were?
Yes. And um we um We have been married to Elizabeth for the last 23 years now, actually, 24 years. We are celebrating our 24th. Anniversary on 24th of August. And The Lord has blessed our marriage.
We understand each other. Elizabeth is a good friend of mine and I cherish us Her to be my wife.
So, and God has blessed us with. Two girls and one boy. uh Rebecca Joy and Grace and Joseph. Yeah. We lost our son after the second birth, we lost our son and We are so grateful for that.
Um our children And I just want to share this one with you: that Abigail. traveled all the way from US to Kenya, to share the gospel with Grace and Joseph, And they accepted Jesus is their Lord and Savior, and up today they are walking with the Lord.
So We we stayed with Alicia for some weeks in our family and we could we could go to the to do evangelism. With Abigail. Abigail, and we where we planted the church, where we are serving the church, if there is a way we could call that church. Hubby Girl Community Church, that that would be good because I used I used to we used to travel to the community, to the village. To do evangelism.
And I remember one day we were kicked out of the home, one of the homes, because a man was so violent, and I was feeling so ashamed that. That man can chase us. And Abigail said, Ah, I'm okay with this one because it will happen all in America. Once you go to share the gospel to people, they can kick you away. I said really?
Oh, yes. They Americans don't want to be disturbed, and especially when they don't want to hear the gospel, they can be a bit harsh. Yeah. So that's where we are. We have seen our kids grow in the Lord, sometimes with a struggling faith, but we encourage them.
And especially when it comes to um uh discipling uh teenagers in Christ.
Some things, some lessons we have learned, and I'm so pleased to share with you. One, we have to be patient with ourselves. Because, as pastors, as a pastor, I wanted my kids to. know the truth, embrace the truth, and become preachers and lead worship like myself. That one never happened.
So I learned to be patient with myself. And also, I learned to be patient with my children, patient with them. They see things from a different perspective. They learn things their own way. They are living their own world.
They see things with their gla through their glasses.
So I learned to be patient with them. And also patient with God. The Bible says God works in. A way that we cannot understand. You know, Abakok was praying, praying, and praying, and He was wondering if God was listening, but finally, God.
told him, Uh Abba Cook, I know what I'm doing. Even if I explain these things to you, you will not understand.
So it's good. As parents who are raising teenagers, to be patient with God because He will definitely. He will definitely save them and draw them closer to Christ. And also, we need to be consistent with. with the way we raise our children.
uh boys sometimes can be stubborn, girls can be picky and traumatic maybe. Yes. And we need to be we need to be be very consistent. and raise kids in a very gracious way. God does not treat us as if He is an electric wire that once we touch it is shock and shock and shock and nothing else.
So we need to be consistent in our discipleship and leading our children to Christ. What do I mean to be consistent? Our lives must align with the word we preach to them. Yeah. One time I uh I was in bedroom and Grace and Joseph they were fighting.
And I because I was a bit annoyed or frustrated with many things. I projected my frustration to them and I beat all of them without even knowing who. really caused the problem. And for some time Grace was innocent.
So uh she cried for a very long time and uh I tried to get to know I I get I got some I get concern. Why is she crying for all this long? And Joseph for three minutes he was okay. And then Joyce told me, You know, Dad, Grace was innocent. Actually Joseph is the one who provoked her.
You know what I did? I went to Chris and kneeled down and asked for forgiveness. That was not very powerful as a parent to realize that we need to be humble and we need a Savior. And we're sinful, and we need to ask forgiveness of our children, and a lot of people. in a lot of cultures you would never Be that humble.
And so that gives that's a lot of wisdom, Joel. Absolutely. Thank you. And It became um a bridge for me to cross over. And share the message of repentance and forgiveness to them.
So Every time they offend each other, they sin against each other, I encourage them to ask for forgiveness. And it is not something they struggle to do because they saw hit themselves. They saw with their They had me. And they saw it.
Well, I can't I can't forget to ask about your good friend JT. JT's my husband, and it's been so fun to watch the two of you develop this friendship over the years.
So. JT is a good friend of mine, and because of Abigail and his wife Alicia. But every time I'm in Western Salem, I have to see JT for three things. One, to have a steak together. We have to hit steak together.
That's that becomes good. And every time I meet with JT he is he somehow skipped lunch, so he always want to eat. That's good about him. And another another thing about JT, we do together is to visit his construction site of dams and all that. And I enjoy to see JT walking to the water, taking pictures and reading the maps.
I don't understand what is in the maps. But he has to read that thing and get to get things, want to go get get to get things done correctly way. And another thing, actually, last but not the least, it is the most important thing. We'll come back to that thought. We'll make them wait for the answer.
The most important thing about your time with JT. Yes. All right.
Well, we'll be right back. Truth Talk listeners. We're so glad you joined us this afternoon. And we've got another couple of segments coming up.
So stay tuned. Thank you. Truth. You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live.
We left off and Joel left us on a cliffhanger. He listed two things he loves to do with JT, which is eat steak, and I can attest to that. and visit dams and construction sites, so Joel. Don't keep us waiting any longer. Um the third thing that really excites me because it has a tunnel Uh implication about JT Is his deep love for his wife Alicia and also deep love for Christ.
Yeah. For Christ, I'm so much excited every time I'm with JT on Tuesday, on Monday. Monday night. Monday night. He gathers in his home about fifteen to twenty young men.
And the reason is. It's a man Mentor mentor interacting with his sons in Christ. And also providing leadership guidance and wise uh wisdom on them It reminds me of the Bible, which talks about has the charp the iron sharpen another. JT is championing those young men and modeling them in Christ. Every time I get into their conversation, I'm overwhelmed because the kind of discussion goals are within themselves.
Young men, American men, asking real life questions. And I don't think whether the pastors of those young men is able to answer those questions when he's preaching or even during discipleship class. But because it is brought in a very relaxed context, those young men will sit under JayT and JT will guide them in Christ, give them biblical guidance and wisdom on some of the issues, real life issues. Those men's go through. And every time after the session, they always say, thank you so much, JT.
You have really blessed our hearts today. I'm really excited about that.
Well, he has some other older men who help him with that group, and they all love when you're in town. and you get to participate and share some wisdom. And that that adds a lot to their group.
So you're loved by that group as well. Thank you so much. I love to hang around those men and Also, learn from them. You know, as a pastor, you find my as a pastor, I'm the teacher of the word. You find most of the time speaking, speaking, speaking, and you don't Even have men who can also teach you.
So it's a pleasure for me to hear. The gospel, God's truth being told to another person.
Well, I was going to ask you, we were talking a little bit earlier about maybe things that you'd like to share with. the church here, the the body of believers worldwide, but You know, specifically the body of believers here. I know there's some things on your heart that you're really passionate about, some things from scripture. that he that I'd love to have you share. Alicia, thank you so much for bringing that question.
It's real. It's you. It's loaded with a lot of things that I want to share. My interaction with pastors, I'm training. You know, the amount of training I do is.
I run a seminary for pastors who are serving in those. Communities, reaching the enriched communities. They have families, they have churches. And they are not able to leave those churches and go to seminary for three months semester or Bible school. And I bring them to come and study and go back home.
One of them, the lesson the Lord has been telling me, is how big. The body of Christ is.
Sometimes we find ourselves closing ourselves into a denominational cocoons. We say, I am a Baptist, I am a Presbyterian, I am a Methodist, I am a Pentecostal. We like. like to put ourselves into those cocoons. But there is one thing the Lord has been teaching me along.
The body of Christ is bigger than all. that our denominations. And we need to come up. and look for a common ground of Christian believers. and work on that, and the common ground is go therefore.
into all the nations. and make them to be my disciples. I can paraphrase it that way. God is not so much interested in our denomination. God is so much is Is so much committed on how we will obey the Great Commission.
going out. and winning disciples to Christ. And other than that, the other thing that the Lord has been teaching me is. discipleship. And I just want I know Alicia she was not expecting me to talk about it, but I'll talk about it anyway.
she has developed manual, very short manuals for discipleship. It looks very simple, but it is very deep. I have gone through the one she developed for S Naum. And it is very good. It is very good.
Because I can see It's so deep and yet it's simple. It can be understood By any person who wants to understand. God's word.
So the issue here is: let us forgo our divisions. Let us be united by the calling of our Lord Jesus Christ. And the calling is Win people to Christ. Then after we have we have won those disciples, We need to disciple them. When you read the manual of discipleship, Alicia has developed.
You will not know whether she is a Baptist or she is a Presbyterian or Methodist or whatever. Oh, you but you you you will hear, you read God's word. in plain language, in black and white.
So that is the thing, that thing I the second thing I've seen. And the other thing is about What, Paul? Told Timothy. and the things that you have. heard from me in the presence of many witnesses.
and trust. and trust. to reliable men. What kind of reliable man? The first qualification.
is they should be able to teach others as well. It is very and that rises right out of the Great Commission. Yes. Every believer. The great commission is given to every believer, and then specific roles and responsibilities.
But the beautiful thing is, like, every person has a place in the Great Commission, and every person has spiritual gifts. Angel, sometimes my burden is that people realize that. You know, they. May sit and hear a sermon and go home, and they don't see themselves. Like Jesus standing there and giving the call to the To go to the nations or across the street or around the world, but they just don't envision that cause for them.
And I see that with a lot of women, too. We like, well, the men will do that, or you know, but it's all believers. But yeah, what you're doing is teaching these things, God's word. to men who can take that back to their back to their tribe or their home or their city or their church. And multiply it.
And what I hear you talking about this week is just. That you went from wanting to disciple one person to discipling a group who then can go back. to their part of Kenya. and take what has been entrusted to them And that's just that's just such a biblical, beautiful model. It is, it is, it is.
And. It is in line with what the great American evangelist, I love him, D.L. Moody. GL Mood is a is a great eva American evangelist. You said He said two things.
One, He would rather Trained men to do the work of of a hundred men. rather than to do the work of a hundred men himself. And that is the model. Yeah, that is the model we should be able to develop, training men and women so that they can do the work of the gospel. And uh also being involved in what God is doing.
Del Moody again said, And I agree with him. He has never gone to heaven, but he's making a point here. I say is when we get to heaven and the celebration will start. We will be shocked to find men and women who come and shake our hands and say, Thank you so much. for giving money to missions.
through you are giving the gospel message was brought to my village. Not all of us can be involved in Great Commission. actively. But we can always all of us be involved anyway, how? We can pray for missions work.
I am so much excited about Habigir. What she is doing, I cannot dare to do that. She's working for the gospel, whatever the Lord is calling her. and we can pray for them. That is part of supporting missions' work.
And also we can pray. We can pray and give.
Sorry. Pray, give and go. Yes. I think that used to be the. Ah, yes.
And also we can go, we can visit missionaries and encourage them.
Sometimes we also want to send messages. Oh, no, I'm praying for you. There's nothing wrong by sending text messages and email, but it is more practical. if you move out of your comfort zone sometime, and visit missionaries in their field. These are the men and women on the boots.
These are the on the battlefield fighting. and if you visit them, It will become a great encouragement. You can be able to identify with the situation they are going through. And when you go back to your churches, you stand a better chance to pray more specifically for them. And don't you think when we visit Missions, missionaries, or we go to these places, it also gives us such a bigger view of God.
Like w you know, when you live in your one space You can't imagine what God is doing around the world, and it might look very different than what God is doing here, and all of a sudden, you start to think. God is so much bigger than I ever imagined, and He's so powerful, and His love is so great for all people. Absolutely, that's true. But also, when we visit missionaries in their mission field, We will come home. More thankful because we understand things that we take for granted here.
It is a big privilege for those people who are in the mission field.
Well, we'll be right back. We've got a few more things to talk about, one last segment.
So, hang on just a few minutes and join us for our last segment with Joel Cavala. This has been a great conversation so far, so we'll be right back. Yeah. Truth Talk Live You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back.
This afternoon, we've had a great conversation with Joel Cavala, Pastor. Friend, brother in Christ. He lives in Kenya and he's traveled to Winston-Salem and really several places along the East Coast to visit churches who support him and just to encourage us. It goes both directions, Joel.
So I'm so thankful for how he's impacted our family and just encouraged by his ministry.
So I wanted to take a few minutes here at the end of the podcast, end of the show, just to ask Joel, what are some of the challenges that believers face in Kenya? What is maybe some of the predominant religious views? That you face and have to kind of work through when you're going into these places where people haven't heard about Jesus. They don't know the gospel. Maybe they don't understand grace.
So just give us a little bit of what it looks like there as you do ministry. Thank you so much, Alicia. One of the challenges we are facing in our country is the prosperity gospel wing of Christian. Healthy and wealthy gospel. Yes.
And it it finds its root in in Africa, more precisely in Kenya, because most of the people are poor. The poverty is um a bit higher. And when you tell people about uh money, they will always buy to that idea even if it is not true by all means. Another challenge we face is Islam. Islam is becoming a threat to Christian missions.
And uh Islam sometimes they are so aggressive, arrogant, and uh militia at some point.
Okay. In my country, at some point, they will stop buses travelling from north eastern part of Kenya, And actually, what they did more than three times, they could ask, try to interrogate people with guns. and uh if they don't speak Islam, if they don't, they ask them simple questions or some, yeah, yeah, one of those languages, they put them somewhere and they spray live, they spray them with live bullets and kill them. Wow, so that's a big issue. In some of these areas, they are burning churches and prohibiting people from preaching, doing open-air preaching, even singing at the church.
It will require the policemen to come and guard Christians when they are having worship service.
So, Islam. Is a big issue. And now, my understanding is that moving more from Northern Africa south? Is has that primarily Islam is moving down through Africa, or how do you see that? It is moving to Africa through coastal part of Kenya and even through northeastern part of Kenya.
They find themselves in the rural in urban centers because they come there and they look for a a certain location. For example, in North Carolina, like Winston-Salem, they look for a town and they they buy all the properties there, they put a lot of business there, they put they buy a they buy a land and build a big mosque. That's how they are putting themselves. You know, it reminds me that they need Jesus too. Like, the world is full of.
people who are far from the Lord and You know, we We push back against those false beliefs and the false religions and the false ideologies, but we still want to retain a love for the people who are so caught in that and just blind to that. I also want to ask you: tell me more about how people can find out about the seminary or the work you're doing. You know, there may be people out there that are like, I would love to connect with Pastor Joel and You know, find out how our Sunday school class or me personally, how I could support. What God is doing in Kenya.
Oh, that's a great question. We have we started recently and we have established a website. And um At least you can read the website. Yes, I wrote it on the other pages. Ets dash kenya.org.
O-R-G.
So Emmanuel Theological Seminary ETS dashboard. Kenya.org.
So you can go to his website and read a little bit more.
Well he's got some phenomenal videos that they've created that really capture The heart of what he is doing with these pastors and churches. And if you can contact me through Truth Network or through my personal Facebook, I'd love to get you connected with Pastor Joel.
So that would make my heart sing. Thank you so much for that. Absolutely. Well, what else do you want to talk about before we hit the road, so to speak? Um I want to Echo the words of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Okay. The last prayer, the priestly prayer that he offered before he went to the cross. John seventeen, verse seventeen. He prayed that the church would be united. Because he And the Father and the Holy Spirit, they are one.
Jesus is not happy when he sees the church being divided. for some small things. God is calling all of us to see the big picture. The big picture is credit commission. And he prayed.
John seventeen, seventeen. Father, Sanctify them. with the truth. For your word is truth. Let us become Serious students of God's word through that.
we will be sanctified on a daily basis. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Well, we still have just a couple of minutes before we wrap this up. But You mentioned raising teenagers.
How can we pray for your family? And for what you're doing in the seminary and with these pastors, how can we pray for you specifically? Yeah, this uh this morning I have I had a meeting with V V V V Vinny Polushi Vinny Polushi that's a it's a hard name to spell it's difficult but he is the global director of world missions of global missions at two cities. Yeah. And I talked to him about um Evangelizing.
and discipling the next generation. And my focus now that calls for your prayer is high school. High school Students Before they go to university, I have a burden for those young men and women. We pray that. the partnership we are thinking about uh with the the the Pinny will be actualized.
Okay. And my my heart is in the rural areas where people are under-resourced. and they are not well connected. In Nairobi and whole other cities in Africa, those people can access youth camps, discipleship programs. evangelistic programs that will move direct to them.
But I pray that in those enriched communities or poorly reached communities, we will have a program that is focused on reaching high school uh students That is something I would love to see happen. Pray for my children that they will know Christ. and walk with him. Yeah, we are about to release them to the world. 'Cause they would not continue staying with us.
Joey is about to go to to get her own house in Nairobi. Grace is going to college and we is we can see her staying in uh University of Austria. Joseph will hang around with us for some time. Let us pray that they will know the Lord. Yeah.
John said, There is one thing that makes him happy, and is to see his children walking in the Lord, walking in faith. That is our big prayer. How can we pray for Elizabeth? Because she's. She's your gospel partner, best friend, love of your life.
How can we pray for her? Elizabeth, she's a very wise woman.
Sometimes, most of the time, she makes very good observations about some issues in the church, some issues in my life.
Sometimes I try to say, no, no, no, maybe you don't see it well. But finally she see she Turns to be the one who saw things well. Pray that Lord will continue to give her wisdom. he had some struggles with uh our back. Pray that uh God will continue to bring healing to her.
Sometimes doctors will say this is this will not. This is cannot be healed, but we are trusting that God will bring healing. And if God is not bringing healing as we hope, So as we expect, Pray that God will give her the grace she needs. Yes. Okay.
Well, we will be praying for those things. Thank you so much, Alyssa. As we close, I want you to finish by sharing maybe your favorite thing that you love to preach. The story that I like to preach is Jonah.
Okay. Jonah is. Is my favorite. I was telling Alicia a while ago if I would be having a chance to get a boy. I will call him Jonah, because Jonah is like all of us, I suppose.
Okay. And the thing I like about Jonah is Jonah hated Ninevites for a good reason, humanly speaking. They are the Nilevites. Obvious days and Ninevites were the Jews. Enemies.
Yeah. You can keep talking. Finish this out. Another 30 seconds. Jonah is a man that I lied.
God asked him. Jonah, you are worried about your comfort. But you don't care about these tribes who don't know the truth about me.
Well, glory to God. Thank you, Pastor Joel, for being with us today. What a great time we've had. Signing off from Truth Talk Live.
