Is Abortion Murder?

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And now, here's today's Truth Talk Live host. is abortion murder. is abortion murder. 866-34 TRUTH-866-348-7884. I've got a Rebecca Haney back on the line today from, is it Minnesota?

No, it's Iowa. Iowa. No, that's right. You used to be in Minnesota. That's right.

But are you guys getting anything for the ice storm? Or is there any storm coming to you guys? Or how is it down there? Oh, at this point, we're just hardened Midwesterners. Like, just do your worst, weather.

Like, just put on another six layers of clothing. It'll be fine. The cows don't care. The cows don't care. Well, is abortion murder?

And I've got a Bible verse right here, and it's Deuteronomy 30:19. And it says, I call heaven and earth to witness against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore, choose life. That you and your offspring may live. And Rebecca, you're a Christian apologist.

You do a weekly radio show as well. Is that right? Yes, sir. We do Faith Works Weekend, and that is just talking about applying our faith, essentially. How do we live out our faith in this crazy old, chaotic, mixed-up Romans 1 world?

That's what we focus on. And what does it look like to live like Jesus? I mean, if we're talking about some pretty dark topics, which today we are, Michael, and it is an honor to be asked back. I always say that's the truest honor in radio is the follow-up to be asked back again. But it is in the middle of true and present darkness, we can still shine like stars in the middle of a dark generation.

And I think that is what God is calling us to. And that's why he's placed you and me and everyone listening here and now to live like Christ because the world he loves needs a witness. Yeah, and abortion is a very dark topic. And there is one side of this country that says, hey, it's a woman's choice. It's her body, her choice.

But what do you say, Rebecca?

Well, it's interesting that we're not giving the microphone to the baby, that none of the children involved ever get a choice. We're making choices for them. And in this case, it's the choice that destroys. I think we have to understand we're talking about human beings. What is abortion?

And I think Scott Klusendorf does a really good job of breaking this down, but there's a lot of great pro-life apologetics. If we're going to start there, we have to define our terms. And what is abortion? Abortion can be rightly defined as the intentional taking of an innocent human life, typically pre-born. Although there are radicals that will even suggest that we have post-birth or fourth trimester abortions, which I mean, hopefully we can all, most of us, agree that that is a heinous abuse of human rights.

It's heinous destruction. But then, somehow, just a few minutes before that very same child is born, we disagree. We say, well, I guess we don't know. We suddenly lose our logical thinking skills and we like to. Leave it like it's this big ethical question mark, and therefore, we can allow for the destruction of the most innocent and vulnerable human beings among us when they are the ones that ought to move us to compassion the most.

Our children should be the most protected when they are in their mother's womb. And I think in any other species, we understand that, as strange as that is, we understand that if you, you know, don't go out and do this, kids, don't try this at home, but don't go out and like smash a bald eagle egg because they are protected. Don't go smash and harm an endangered species when they're still in the womb or when they're still in the child or in the fetal state because they are also protected by law. They are also likewise a member of that endangered species.

So, how is it that we don't see logically the same extension of human rights to our very own children? that those humans deserve protection. They have human rights. Our rights begin when we do.

So in answer to your question, Michael, I think it's really a no-brainer if we're being honest about it. But I will say that the enemy is very deceptive around this question. And there have been so many lies that we have, that have been so pervasive in our culture and that now several generations have not only bought and believed these lies, but acted on them as well. And that abortion is so personal to each and every one of us. If it's not you, you, it's someone you know.

If it's not you, it's a neighbor. It's a relative. You may not even know the whole story, but just statistically, it's between one in three and one in four women have either chosen to have abortion or are affected by abortion.

So that means one in four men. Let's just take the lower statistic. That means one in four men are fathers who have been deprived of their children through abortion. One in four grandparents have a grandchild that they don't know that was destroyed before they were ever allowed to be born. It touches every single one of us.

So it's vital that we. We get some cold, hard facts on this case or on this particular issue, but more important than that, we're talking about real people and real lives that are being torn apart and destroyed. And we're talking about whole generations that are being eliminated. That's not a work of God. That's the opposite of the Father's heart who loves, who gives life and life abundant.

And so that is, I think, the crystal clarity that every Christian should have. And then the heart for those who have either are post-abortive. Who have that as part of their story and who need repentance and need forgiveness from that sin, but also have the ability, praise the Lord, to walk in newness of life in Christ. Yeah. And so you grew up kind of in a Christian home, right?

Your father was a pastor? Yes. Yes. Kind of like right on the front pew and getting all of the lessons appropriately, learning that Jesus is the answer to every question in Sunday school. But more importantly, like we learn to apply that.

as we go throughout our lives. And what happens when like those really tough questions come about, or there's something I really want that God says I shouldn't have, or, you know, the thing that I wanted the most, maybe in the time of trial has been deprived from me. And I think, well, Lord, that's not fair. How could you do that?

So there are lots of challenges that I've experienced in my life and challenges that I think all of us have, whether it's on this question or other questions. And we are tempted then to say, well, maybe God's not really good or maybe I don't really believe anymore. How could he do that? And it's in those times that we have to go back to what God actually says in his word and look at his rock-solid promises. He is not the one that changed.

And that is so beautiful in a generation that is used to shifting sands and used to everything changing and nothing's reliable and trustworthy. I long for, and I think especially my kids and their kids' ages, their generations long for something that is trustworthy, reliable, rock solid that does not change, which is why I can introduce people to Jesus. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. His word can be trusted. He's not a man that he would change his mind.

And he will always remain faithful for he cannot deny himself. He is something that you can trust and that you can build your life on. But when we're talking about questions of abortion, for example, so much of this is wrapped up in fear.

So many women are driven to abortion because they're told it's the only way out. It's for everyone that preaches choice, it's it tends to be the only choice that's ever discussed: well, just go to the clinic, take care of it. You can move on, you can, you know, take a couple pills, nobody will ever know. It's like it never happened, and then just move on with your life. Um, and those are lies, flatly put.

That is not this. I mean, you can't undo that regret that comes into your life when you make those types of choices. But I think it's indicative of an industry that only gives one choice and then tells women they shouldn't feel regret and you shouldn't feel shame, you shouldn't feel hurt, you shouldn't feel loss, the loss of your child because it was just a choice, it was just a clump of cells. As though you, as a woman, are crazy for feeling the loss of the death of your own child. When any mom that's been through that knows how deep that pain and how real that pain actually is, we on the side of life.

Understand the truth that each unique human is made in the image of God, that they are worthy of protecting, and that there's There's never going to be another you. It is a good thing that you are here. People are not the problem. And yet, when you go to the side that pervades abortion as a choice, they tend to use fear as a tactic over and over again and pressure women or coerce women. I think it's like something between 50 and 60% of women say that there were fears or even outright coercion that was involved with them making that decision as well.

And so that's something that if you really want to be pro-woman and you really want to support women, then you need to tell her that she actually can do this. She actually has the ability. She's strong enough to have her dreams and her baby as well. Yeah, because as we all know Our parents had to choose for us to be here. Our parents chose to give us life.

They chose our mothers, if we're talking or we're listening right now, they chose life and we believe in that as well. And so they're marching for life down in Washington. And when we come back, we're going to be talking about what Rebecca and I and what others are doing to fight for the pro-life movement, to fight for the unborn child. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com.

Alright, we are back with Rebecca Haney. Is abortion murder? Is abortion murder? And so, as we're talking about this, Rebecca, one of the things that I wanted to share with the listeners once again is that my father wanted my mother to have an abortion, and she said no. And I remember years ago, it was back in 2019, we were at a trip in Hawaii, and she said, Mike, And she said, you've never thanked me for choosing life.

And I kind of sat there for a second. I said, Mom, thank you for choosing life because she was pressured into it. And so, yes, it is the woman's right to choose, but many times there are other people who end up pressuring these women into having the abortions. It can be a boyfriend, it can be a husband, it can be parents, or you know, I've heard even members of the clergy encourage people to get abortions. There, in one of the local abortion clinics where I pray outside of Rebecca, there are somebody from a local church who is an escort who escorts women in to get an abortion.

I'm really sorry to hear that. I hope the name of God isn't on that church because that's not the heart of God. And I can speak so boldly. I'm very glad that your mom chose life too. I'm very glad that we're here.

We're able to have this discussion. I'm glad that you are here. I am pro-birth. I'm pro-birthdays. I'm pro-people.

I think that that is the heart of the pro-life movement. We often talk about it. We end up on the defensive posture a lot, and folks will say, Well, you're only pro-birth. I'm like, Yes, I am. Like, birth, birthdays, people.

Hello, babies. Have you met one? They're awesome. And also, you are a baby, and I'm so glad that your mom had you. Like, this world is better because you're in it.

That's the side we're on. And I know that there are real, real serious situations that people find themselves in where they're in an unplanned pregnancy. We'll just say, and there might be some really difficult circumstances that would challenge a woman's natural desire to have a child and parent. It can be a very scary situation if there's abuse, if there's a Know financial insecurity, if someone's in poverty, if so, like they get a medical diagnosis. I'm not ignorant of any of those facts.

I've lived through some of them. But the truth is, no problem is going to be made better by killing the child. Like, that's the one party in whatever situation there is that is totally innocent. And therefore, like that's the one person that everybody should have a vested interest in protecting. You don't have more money because you know, destroy your child in the middle of it.

You don't escape abuse by eliminating the baby in the middle of all of it. Um, and in fact, I will say the abortion industry, like this is just a hard truth, has enabled many abusive situations, human trafficking situations, prostitutional situations. We're just dropping all the words here. Um, because what they do is eliminate the child, they destroy the child, and they don't get that woman out of that situation. They don't help the victims of human trafficking.

They instead bring them back, in many cases, right back to the hands of their abusers. And so that's, it's the farthest thing from help. I just need to debunk that anytime it comes up. But again, Michael, I'm very glad you're here. Yeah.

I'm glad we get to have this discussion. People are not the problem. And I think that if you really boil down the lies of the pro-abortion side, it says that the baby is the problem, that there's either too many people or, you know, you just, you have to focus on you. Um and and that's not true. The child in the womb is again pure potential.

They'll say it's not a person. I'm like, yes, absolutely it is. It's a potential person. No, no. It's a person with potential.

Like, you don't know how God will work in the life of that person. And I will say, you mentioned some churches, complicity. I'm using air quotes real strong here. I had the honor of speaking about Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, and her very racist and eugenicist motivations for beginning all this and from her own writings. And I've had the honor of presenting this in congregations that are majority black.

And I remember talking with a woman after this. She said, I had no idea. I did not know this. And she said, You mean, and she pointed down the street, literally down the street on Martin Luther King Boulevard. There is a Planned Parenthood in the nearest city nearest to us.

And she said, I've been sending girls down there for years because they said they would get help. They said they would help them and I said, Ma'am, this is not help. You know, this is not it, but there's generations of lies, and it is no accident. That Planned Parenthood specifically targets poor women, non-white women, and that there are more black babies aborted in major cities these days, like just say New York, for example. There are more black babies that are aborted there than are born alive.

That's heinous. That's a genocide. I don't know any other word for it. But we have to love people enough to stand up and say, No, no more. You deserve real help.

We will really help you. We love you. We love your baby. We will support you in any possible way because you are worth it. You are worth more and you deserve better than abortion.

Yeah. I mean, but you know, the good thing is, Margaret Sanger wasn't racist or anything, right? I have her writings that would beg to differ. Actually, she wanted to exterminate the undesirables. She was a eugenicist.

And I mean, to be fair, many of the biggest names and the most wealthy people in that generation were exactly that. They took Darwinian principle and applied it to humanity. And they said, if human beings are randomly evolved, just like any other species, then we need to be creating a race of thoroughbreds. That was the tagline for her newsletter. originally for the American Birth Control League was to create a race of thoroughbreds.

And she's talking about human beings.

So basically, you have to weed out what she called human weeds. And that meant poor people, disabled people, people who were non-white. And she set up in her original Planned Parenthood Clinic in 1929 was in Harlem. She specifically targeted non-white populations because she thought that they were the problem. And that we have to reduce that excess population.

It's totally true. Planned Parenthood won't talk about it. But yeah, the further down that you go in the reason that Planned Parenthood exists, their founder. And unfortunately, that legacy still continues to this day. Like I mentioned, we tend to target, not we, Planned Parenthood tends to target in this modern day, non-white poor populations, and they'll use disability, they'll use financial instability, victims of abuse, like they will use any excuse to, again, This is a for-profit venture.

So they're preying on the most vulnerable. They're destroying children in the womb, which is the next generation. They're leaving women traumatized without any help or help. And the only choice they offer is this destruction. And they are charging for the privilege.

And I mean, let's just get real personal. using our tax dollars to do it. Yeah, and there have been women who have even worked for Planned Parenthood. And I believe there was a movie called Unplanned. Was it Abby Johnson?

Yeah, Savvy Johnson. And they have seen what goes on inside of there, and they said, even I can't take it anymore. Yeah. And she actually has a really good organization. It's called And Then There Were None.

And she reaches out to workers in the abortion industry to get them help to get out so that they are no longer making their money by preying on women and children. And so that's been very successful as well. I'm very glad to see. See, there's such beauty. If you decide to stand up and say no more, I'm not going to go along with a lie.

I'm going to, that's the power of transformation in Christ. That every single one of us has even the worst parts of our story, God can turn around and make it a testimony. And so it's a beautiful thing. I think Abby has another movie out now. I haven't seen it yet, but it's She Is Behind Unplanned.

It is her story. She was a former, she is post-abortive, and she was a former Planned Parenthood director in Texas. And I think God got a hold of her heart. And through the process of her story that you see in that movie, she realized that she couldn't do this anymore. And now she dedicates her whole life to helping women get out of.

Thinking that abortion is their only option to choose life and also to get abortion workers out of that industry.

So it's a wonderful thing. But I think it reminds me again that God can use even the worst, the ugliest parts of our story and our sin when we bring it to the foot of the cross. Because many times this is the sin Christians won't talk about. We don't talk about it in our churches, and it deprives us of the ability to repent and be washed clean. And this is not too big a sin for God to forgive.

I mean the God who sent his own son. To earth, so that knowing that we would spit in his face, knowing that we would rebel, knowing that we would, like, at the height of our sin, we as human beings would. kill Jesus on the cross, another innocent life. That He would then take that and use it for the redemption of all mankind, of everyone who trusts in him. That is, it's mind-blowing.

It's amazing. It's the heart of the gospel. It is. And so we talked about what we can do a little bit. We can pray.

And then we're going to talk on the other side about political as well. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com.

Hey, so we are back with Rebecca Haney, and I don't know if you guys just heard that commercial or not. Did you hear that last commercial, Rebecca? It said that we're supposed to treat everybody. Everybody with justice and with mercy. And I believe that that includes the unborn.

Every person.

Well, and that's really, again, why we have to define our terms. We have to get back to that question. Many times, if you're in a debate or let's just say a friendly discussion with a friend of yours who sees this differently, they'll try to say, well, what about the woman? What about this situation? What about that situation with this exception?

And I do care, obviously, about women. I am a mom. I am a woman. I'm not sure if you could tell, but I both identify. What is a woman?

An adult. I think they've had that conversation recently at the Supreme Court. Not a biologist, but I can tell you, I am a woman. And I have had children as well, both boys and girls. And I can tell you that I care about women, women's health, women's reproductive freedom, so to speak, but you don't have freedom to destroy another human being.

You simply don't. And so I do care 100% about this. Many times, we just have to get back to understanding the rights of the pre-born. Child. Like you have to see the humanity of the pre-born child.

And it's only when we can understand the gravity, only then can we understand the gravity of the question. And only then can we truly love our neighbor. I mean, I've heard that a lot over the last several years. If you don't do this, if you don't have this policy, you're not loving your neighbor. Or if you don't adopt this political perspective, you're not loving your neighbor.

How then can we turn to the most vulnerable, the most innocent of our neighbors, and say anything less? It is not loving to destroy your neighbor in the womb. It's not. And so, I really think it is that simple, especially for Christians, if you're concerned about how to engage in this question, just ask: How would Jesus respond? How is it loving your neighbor to just to just literally destroy them, to dismember them, to suffocate them?

To like, it's horrible and graphic. If anybody, I mean, I hate to say I want everyone to see an abortion, it's a horrible, horrible procedure, but we all need to understand the gravity of what we're talking about. It is violent, it's violent in the extreme. And the only reason that we don't understand that is because the child is so small. I mean, if that doesn't prick you to compassion and to understanding, I don't know what will.

Like, they require us to speak up for them. Yeah, yeah. And there's a post that I just made a couple of days ago, and it said, a pro-choice ultrasound. And the doctor says to the woman who's pro-choice, your lifeless, inhuman clump of cells is a boy. You know, it's like, well, you got to be consistent, right?

And so, you actually have a friend of yours or somebody that you know who did a video, and it was about the magic birth canal. Yes, Laura Clausett, she's awesome. And she's just the right type of snarky and sarcastic. I love it.

Some of us are gifted with like the spiritual gift of sarcasm, and I think that's Laura's gift. But she did a parody of the magical birth canal. And she dresses up kind of like a magical fairy who can bestow the blessing of life. And she has an actual actual baby in the video, which is funny too. That someone's not a baby before they enter the magical birth canal.

And then on the other side, suddenly a baby, a human person. And she's like, not a baby on one side, and then travels the canal. Oh, maybe a baby. And it's just so funny because it's so obvious. If you consider the question, this is why the pro-abortion side doesn't want to do that.

They just ignore it. They say, exactly as you said, this is just a clump of cells. This isn't really living. They'll say, that's not a heartbeat, it's cardiac activity. Or they'll say, no, that's the sound effects.

That's just a blip on the ultrasound, Michael. You don't really know. I'm like, actually, yes, like, what would be making that sound? You can tell that it's my heartbeat. It's exactly the same activity.

If the doctor is, which again, and in your prenatal appointments, the doctor will check on you and then they check on the baby because we all know that there's two people involved. Like, we just know this. And it's gotten to the point where it's difficult to be deceived about it if you honestly search for answers. Just Google. Google is your friend.

Good old Google. You can Google embryology. And in like two seconds, you can have the most accurate, the most advanced images of pre-born life that the world has ever seen. You can see the baby sucking their thumb. You can see the baby holding their feet.

You can see them waving. You can see them hiccuping in utero. Like, and these are at very, very young ages, too.

So there's no deception, really. Unless it's willful deception about what we're talking about in the womb, it's only now, what do we do about this? What do we do with the human in the womb? And my answer is very simple: you love them. You do not kill them.

Yeah. And and if we all had that same Belief in that same obvious belief, then it would be easy. But, you know, I've got to think. that the people who are on the other side, they're not ignorant. They know that it's a heartbeat.

They know that it's a baby, but I think I wonder if they say that so they know if they're saying it's a baby and it's a heartbeat, then they've kind of trapped themselves. Is that right? There are a few people. It kind of depends on the situation. I think there are some that have never really thought too deeply about it because you can just sloganize a political issue and they think it's the right side to just say, well, I believe in choice.

I believe everybody has the right to do what it is with their own body, and especially for men who I think, by the way, side note, pro-life men, the world needs you. We need you to speak up. This has been, it's been a lie that this is just a quote-unquote women's issue. And that lies basically to silence men. And we need good, strong Christian men to stand up for the most vulnerable.

We need you, your heroes. Please speak up.

So that's my promo for that. But there are people who I think are genuinely deceived, or maybe just haven't really looked too deeply into it. There are people who have abortion in their past. And so they have to justify it. It has to be okay because I've done it.

It has to be okay because I've heard women who say, well, it wouldn't be legal. If it were a problem, it wouldn't be legal. And in fact, I know one dear friend who that was what convinced her that she could have an abortion. She was having moral questions about it, and she thought, well, if it wasn't okay, it wouldn't be legal. And so she went ahead with the abortion procedure, and she lost her child in that way.

And now she has received redemption in Christ, but it's something that you can't undo. And that it is always going to be a part of your story. Again, God can use it and redeem, so please hear my heart on that. But we we have to stop this. We have to stop this travesty.

And that's the only way we can do it, I think, is by understanding the humanity of the preborn child. And that no matter what negative situation might pressure a woman to be tempted in this way, that we have to come alongside her and love her enough to say, You are worth more than this, and so is your baby. And I will walk with you and help meet any needs that you might have. We are going to eliminate the need for abortion, we don't have to do that.

So, back to your question: you said, Is anybody. Like truly deceived. I think if they haven't looked too deeply into it, maybe. But again, real quick Google search: if you're looking at pictures of a pre-born child sucking their thumb and you look at them and you say, Is this really a human being? Isn't this a human being?

And if not human, then what? I think that's an important question to bring up to someone who is defending abortion. If we don't have rights because we're human, then what gives us rights, anything less than just understanding our status as a human person, means that not all of your rights are protected. If you can take away the rights, the right to life for every human being, if it's not based on your status as a human person, then none of your rights, none of your personal rights are sacrosanct. None of them are protected.

If some of them are subject to somebody else's whim or deciding whether or not you're worthy or whether or not you have the right skin color or the right economic status or the right ability level or the right gender. Um, then none of your rights are safe either.

So, we really have to be consistent when we're talking about human rights. And people are asking right now: what can I do? What can I do? And the Bible says in 2 Chronicles 7:14, it says, If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and I will forgive their sin and I will heal their land. When I first became a Christian, Rebecca, I had the motto of, if it's going to be, it's up to me.

Yeah, you guys can pray as much as you want, but I'm going to go out there and I'm going to make it happen. And by the way, action is necessary in this movement as well. But when we pray, we are acting. And when we pray, we see things change. I've heard so many people who have prayed over abortion clinics, specific abortion clinics, on specific days.

The one in Greensboro a while back, they went around and they had a specific prayer that they prayed every single Wednesday that that abortion clinic would be shut down. Not long after that, on Wednesdays, the abortion clinic was. No longer open. I believe years ago there were abortion clinics, like one clinic left, maybe in Mississippi. They shut that down.

We prayed for years that Roe versus Wade would be overturned, and it was overturned.

Now, the problem that I see is I think that some Christians are saying, well, Roe versus Wade is overturned. We're good. No more problems.

Well, there's actually. A lot of abortions, and some say there's even more now than there were before.

Well, it's kind of gone underground in a sense. I mean, there's several ways to answer that, but I would recommend we come back to our original rock-solid foundational view, which is that every human deserves to be protected, deserves equal protection under the law. That is not the case. Even though Roe v. Wade has been overturned, it is still not the case today that every person has equal protection under the law, and it varies from state to state.

Your humanity does not. Your personhood does not change based on your geography, just like we discussed with the magical birth canal. That's a question of geography. It's not a question of humanity and human rights. But whether or not a baby is born in one state versus another state like Iowa that has more protections than a state like California, it's no less human.

He or she is no less human. And so we need to make sure that we are very clear in what we're talking about. It's just the method of fighting the evil of abortion that is causing some confusion, maybe, or causing some to be unsure as to how we should proceed. I would say on a personal level, everyone can have a stand. And repenting of our own sin, repenting of our complacency, repenting of anything they might have as part of our story.

Like I said, I mean, I know so many people who are post-abortive. And if you start talking about this, they will start talking to you. And telling you their story. And the more that you engage in this, it doesn't have to be a debate every time, but you should be the person that they can come to to talk about these things.

So to engage them with love and to know two things are both true: one, this is an unequivocal, heinous sin against the pre-born child to destroy them in the womb is a sin. God is very clear on that. He says, Thou shalt not murder. He says that he loves his hardest to love life, that he hates the shedding of innocent blood, and that the pre-born child is. That no one should ever lift a finger against the little children.

That he loves and protects those who are being led away to slaughter. And that's actually our mission, too, to rescue those who are perishing. I mean, I think that biblical mandate is very clear. And yet, we can react with compassion. We can extend forgiveness in Christ to those who have this as part of their story.

So that's part one. Part two, I think the church should be the first place that a woman in an unplanned pregnancy should go. It shouldn't be Planned Parenthood. It should be her local congregation. We should be so known for love.

And again, partner with pregnancy centers practically. Partner with your local pregnancy center to give them the supplies, the love, the funds, everything that they need.

So that's another very practical way. And then you speak up and you call your lawmakers. They need to know that you care about this issue and that you don't accept compromise when it comes to the most fundamental of human rights. And when we come back, we're going to pray. The Bible says, if my people will humble themselves and pray, I want you to join us in prayer when we come back because we are going to pray for the unborn.

You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com.

Uh All right, we are back for our final segment, and we've got a Josie on the line from the Freedom Center. And Josie, did you have a question or a comment for Rebecca? Yeah, so I was just gonna say how I just attended the March for Life today as a college student. I attended Liberty University, and I just wanted to say. Uh as a college student, how uh grateful I am to be at a university that provides the opportunity to me to go to the March for Life and to be able to learn more about just defending the rights of the unborn.

So I just wanted to get some advice too as a college student for how to defend my beliefs in a world that rejects them.

Well, and first of all, I think there's a lot of people who need to get some advice from you, Josie, and to actually go to the pro-life march and to get involved. That's the first thing. But Rebecca, you can answer her question. Oh, it's wonderful, Josie. I'm so glad you're out there.

First of all, how's the crowd, and are you bundled up? Yeah, the crowd is crazy. I'm actually on my way back now.

So it was so good. It was not as cold as I thought it would be, but it was amazing. There were so many people. They seemed so excited. And we had over a thousand Liberty students come to the march today.

So it was amazing to go with a thousand of my college peers over to the march and see them so passionate about defending truth in our nation.

So, yeah. And we need so much more of that. And I think to see one student stand up matters so much. And there are people that feel like they're all alone. Like you said, it's an amazing thing to have the support of your institution.

And that's a wonderful environment that you're in there at Liberty. But there are many students across the nation that feel the same way as you do, that they see the issue, they understand the truth and how critical this question is, but they feel like they're all alone. And so to see, even just hearing your voice or seeing the photos of the wonderfully cheerful, I have to say, all the pro-life students are such good-looking kids. Like they just look so great. It's so wonderful to see the joy that's out there.

And so, even to see that maybe means someone across the country that feels like they're all alone knows that they're not, and that they can be passionately stand up, even if it feels like, okay, maybe it's a one-step. One step. Maybe I can start a life discussion at our local congregation. Maybe I can do this at my college group. Students for life, national organizations.

You can get together and start a club of people who are like-minded.

Now, I'm not going to say that's not going to be easy. You will face some opposition, but ultimately, start with in the same way you would if you were asked questions about your faith. Right. If you're coming from a Christian background, you start with your apologetic basics. And then you can do that with all of these pro-life issues.

There are tons of great resources out there, pro-life apologetics.

So you get yourself familiar with the arguments. You get a little background. You understand the evidence behind why you believe what you believe. Again, science, also a good place to start. You can talk about it from a spiritual perspective, but also just from a biological perspective.

Like, no species should be out, no species is long for this world if they're going to kill their own offspring. Hello.

So we've got to understand it from scientific, from legal, and ethical standpoints. Like those are all different aspects of the question. That's research we can do. And then we can effectively and passionately stand for life. You will not stand alone.

Yeah. And Josie, I was going to ask you this. What I love to see young people involved in this movement. What got you involved or what got you interested in the movement?

So actually my mother is involved in local government and so I saw her get involved in that and just in general politics and saw her and was super inspired by my mom standing up. She actually did not have a college degree or anything and my younger sister too, she had some sort of issue when she was about to be born and the doctors told my parents that they should consider abortion for her. And my youngest sister came out perfectly healthy. There's nothing wrong with her, absolutely nothing. And the doctors were telling my parents that they should consider abortion and obviously my parents chose life.

But seeing that story and also seeing my mom get involved in local government, I felt really passionate to also do the same and defend the lives of the unborn, seeing especially how all these doctors were so quickly to choose abortion rather than life just for a simple problem that she had, giving my parents such a suggestion. It was honestly shocking when my parents told me that story, and that just made me, I guess, like enlightened. I was to keep fighting and keep pushing, especially in a generation like my own. while we have a lot of people standing up, there's still a lot of us that are passionate for the pro-choice movement. And so I think it's super important that us as college students, I guess, like fight against these wrong beliefs but then also with grace and with truth and are able to listen to their stories without interjecting.

I think that's super important for us to be able to hear, but then also to be able to tell them the truth unapologetically and to stand up without any fear.

So that's kind of how I got involved in it was mostly seeing my mom get fought the local government. I saw her do that. And then also the story of how the doctors were telling my parents to abort my younger sister. That's awesome. And we've got Jeff Hoover here, but our friend Dwayne Carson asked a question.

Dr. Dwayne Carson, he said, when you talk about the politics, and Josie, when you mentioned your mom and the local government, I thought of this, but he says, when you talk about the politics question, how important, Rebecca, is it for Christians to know a political candidate's position on life? I would say it's critical. It's the first question I ask of anyone, whether they're running for president or running for dog catcher. Because I mean, if you don't, if you're not willing to stand for the rights of the most vulnerable human beings, then I can't really trust you.

I mean, bluntly put, I can't trust you to defend any of my rights either.

So, while, I mean, the question of political party is perhaps a separate one, but at the very least, we should have these conversations in person if you can, but you can always just email someone. Like, the legislators are more accessible now than ever before. You should know your representatives are running to be your employees, and exactly that. They should represent your values in office. And thank God we have that ability as citizens of the United States.

So we should use that wisely and well. And we ought not be casting votes for anyone who is not willing to, I would say, 100 and whole 100% wholeheartedly defend every human life if they're wishy-washy on that, or they say they don't understand that you get from their answer. That really in itself. It tells you everything you need to know. It does.

And we've been disappointed before by conservatives and Republicans who, when it was time to run for office, when it was time to get your vote, they said they were pro-life. But then when it came time to vote on it, they were nowhere to be found or they wouldn't stand up for life. And Jeff, you had a comment or a question for Rebecca? Oh, I uh I didn't really have uh the thing is that I was a missionary for like 26 years. Um and in different countries, when we went to different countries, the The thing that God kept bringing out for us to attack In the spirit with the whole armor of God.

Was the spiritual background around that area? And in the area of abortion, as I've been praying, the thing that God has brought out to me had to do with Molech. And they um The thing is that God called the worship of Molech an abomination, an abomination to the parents. Who sacrificed a child To this altar of Molech in order to get a better life. Let me stop you there for a second because I know we don't have much.

I wanted to get your feedback on that, Rebecca, what he just said. Sure. I don't know if you've heard it, but I think it's well put: that any culture that worships nature will have human sacrifice. And I think that's a fascinating understanding that when we trade out the God of the universe and when we rebel against him, we basically start looking for any other substitute to sit on the throne. And we like to think that we can be God.

That is a very poor fit. It's just never going to work. And we start worshiping anything else, any false thing other than the God of the universe. And anything that calls us to sacrifice our children for our own benefit is not of God. It is of the devil.

Yeah, because what he was just saying was exactly what they say today. They were sacrificing their children to Molech, Jeff just said, so that they could have a better life. What are the pro-choicers, as they call it, what do they say?

Well, they say this is my body. Yeah. Right? It's my body. And if I don't have this child now, then I'll be able to have.

A better life.

Some type of better life. I mean, this is just, it's the same pagan roots. It's the same lie from the enemy. And he knows what works because he's been doing it for several millennia. Like, it's nothing new under the sun.

And we just have to confront it for the lie that it is. But we also have to say, God has so much better for you. Like, that's the other side of it. It's not just don't murder, although that's a huge part of it. Like, hopefully, we can start to agree on that.

Don't kill your babies, guys. But it's because you are worth more than that. Your child is worth more than that. Women are strong enough to be mothers and also have their dreams and pursue their educations and provide for themselves. And you know why?

Because we are here to support you. Like, it's all one of a piece. If the church is being the church, if we, if Christians are reaching out in compassion and help and generosity and love, but also in uncompromising truth, we're saying we're not going to let you excuse the killing of an innocent child. But what we will do is love you and your baby enough to help provide for you, get you on your feet, get you the training you need or into a safe place, like whatever. Your circumstance, we can help you get healing, counseling, anything that that might be.

We can, you know, if you're not able to parent, then we can find an adoptive family that will love your child. And that is also a wonderful option. Like the church should be the hands and feet of Christ in this area as well as any other. And we shouldn't let any of the political debates cloud that. We shouldn't let the, you know, the fervor and the vitriol of the enemy cloud that.

We are fighting for no less than life itself. And that is the heart of the Father. Every single child is an irrepeatable, invaluable gift from God, his own image stamped onto that precious child in their very DNA. And he has said, I'm sending you. I'm sending you and they are at risk.

They are being led away to slaughter, and we can't let the lies win anymore because this is a question of life and death. All that being said, we should love life and champion life and look at children as the blessings that they are in our church. We shouldn't be afraid to have children, to love them, to hear the wonderful noises of the kids in our congregation. It's the most beautiful, joyful sound ever. If we can transform, that's how cultures are transformed by God's people living out like Christ, and it starts with unity.

Rebecca Haney, I want to thank you for coming on today. Look at Ephesians 6:12 through 13. It says, For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers. Mm-hmm.