Is Today's Church Music Still Sacred?

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Welcome to Truth Talk Live. This is Peter Rosenberger. Glad to be with you today, 866. thirty four TRUTH eight six six three four eight 7884. If you'd like to be a part of the program, getting ready for Thanksgiving, are you ready?

Are you traveling? Are you excited? Or are you dreading it?

Some people do. Any family get-together that the police aren't called, I've heard, is a win.

So I hope that that is a win for you at your family.

So, hey, I wanted to ask you something to start off the program, and we can talk about anything you want to talk about, but there's something that I would like. to just get an informal Survey on Have you heard of this group? Skillet. You ever heard of them? I I'm not All that up on Christian music today.

I grew up in a different era where we had Keith Green, and I remember the second chapter of Acts. I remember when Amy Grant was just a teenager My musical choices that I grew up listening to a lot of the stuff from the seventies when you had Chicago, Earth, One, and Fire, you know, the Doobey Brothers, Eagles, that kind of stuff. That's what I've grew up now. Today's music has changed good a good bit. This group is called Skillet.

They're out of Memphis, Tennessee, and they're Pretty successful. I mean, they've sold like 22. million records or something like that. I mean, they're very, very successful group. They got a a lot of energy.

It's a lot of that, you know I don't even know what you call it. It it's pretty bombastic. And they've got a new version out of O Come O Come Emanuel. which is taking A lot of people by surprise because it starts off a bit intense and then all of a sudden it just like. explodes and it's just real Um What do you even call that?

sloud, but and that and that's fun. I mean, they're very, very good at what they do and The lead singer's wife, I think, her name is Corey. She's got a really good voice. But that's the only song I've ever heard of theirs. I don't listen to a lot of this stuff.

You know, I listen to Sinatra. You know my wife makes fun of me 'cause she listens to a lot of different things and she's she's always listening to what's new out there and stuff and and she keeps her finger on the pulse of a lot of things going on and Music, but I have Sinatra on my playlist and I'm okay with that. I listen to a lot of different things. I'd like. Great rock.

But again, I grew up at a different time than today's, and there tends to be a lot of just almost angry sound in music as opposed to stuff with a groove. You know, I mean think about You know, the Commodores and Stevie Wonder and all those guys. I grew up with the Motown and that kind of stuff. And and I I I like that. It's not for everybody, but that's what I like.

This stuff from Skillet, though, he's got Ocumo Come Emmanuel, and people are debating whether or not this is, you know, what do you think of this? I think they did a great job with it. I mean, I think they're rocking with it. I think they're. doing an amazing production and all that kind of stuff.

Not something I would play in church. And it's not something I would certainly play in the hospital. When you're trying to deal with somebody that is dealing with some stuff like what goes on in our home. But I was kind of wondering, it made me think of a larger question. What do you think?

about today's church music. about what's being played at your worship service. Does it sound sacred? Is it important that it does? I say important because I'm trying to pronounce that properly 'cause today's They say so many kids, when we were in Denver, and all these young people that were taking care of Gracie in the hospital for five months, and they would always say, import ad.

And so I don't know what happened to the T, import ad. Button, but anyway, I want to make sure I don't say important, but is it important? For you. to have sacred music sound different than what the world would offer. Would people be able to know that this is something about praise and worship just from the tone of it?

Is that something that you feel is necessary? Have we lost that in our churches? I'm a big fan of the hymns. I love hymns, and I love arranging hymns, and I like. you know, big sounds with it.

I'm a more of an orchestra guy. And I like Big Band. I like a lot of brass and woodwinds and so forth. um with it and I like music that elevates the soul. But I don't necessarily particularly want to have music that makes me want to just stab my fist in the air and just scream and shout and all that kind of stuff.

But some people do. Do you? And if that's something you like. Uh maybe you want to call in and talk about it. If that's something you don't like, And you feel like we oughta help educate our younger Listeners Uh on some things For church and sacred music, my thing is about church music, sacred music.

worship music. And this is heavy on my mind because this is such a big music time of year. With people going to church for Christmas and Thanksgiving and so forth. And so I want to ask you a couple of questions. What is the music for?

Is it for you know, expression or or formation? Does it shape us into something? Or does it help us express what we already feel? Does this song tell the truth about God? Would the lyrics make sense in a persecuted church?

Like what's going on in Nigeria. In a huspice room, or in a prison cell.

Now they took Ocum O'Cum Emmanuel, which is a wonderful text, And I'm talking about Skillet here, and they did an amazing job with the production and everything else. I mean, it is, they're blistering it. And I love the sound of their voices and so forth, and that's great. Mm. But I I wonder where it would be appropriate to play that.

And it doesn't sound like it'd be appropriate in a church. and it doesn't sound like it'd be appropriate to people who are struggling in their life. It it's it's You know, it's it sounds heavy metal to me, and that's fine. I mean, if people want to listen to that, but I'm thinking about the congregation. Can the congregation sing this?

Or are they just spectators? And if they don't want the congregation to sing, that's fine. Then it's not a congregational worship song. They've taken it and made it to a solo piece that we observe them and watch them and applaud for them when they finish doing it. But does it invite the people of God to respond or put the spotlight on on the platform.

Then I've got to ask, musically speaking.

Now remember, I've studied music for a very long time, been playing for a long, long time.

So I ask, will the production of this last in twenty years? Are we going to want to listen to the same thing? Okam Okam Emanual, for example, has been around for a long time. This version What would be the response in 20 years for this. And you look at songs that the production value has held up.

for twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, sixty years We've had recorded music now long enough that we can see what holds up. And what does it hold up? For example, if you listen to Stevie Wonder right now doing You Are the Sunshine of My Life. Does that hold up? That thing's well over fifty years.

Does it hold up? Yeah, absolutely it holds up. Will this do the same? Or is this something for the moment? And that's fine.

If it's just for the moment, they make a bunch of money. you know, call it a day and Bob's your uncle and everybody's happy. I'm just curious to see what this audience may think about. Because I do ask about the production quality. Will this hold up?

That's why I look at with rap music, for example. Can you imagine some of these guys singing these songs? That they're well, songs is a generous word, but singing some of the stuff that they're singing in the hip-hop world. when they're sixty and seventy years old. Whereas You know, you got people like Stevie, I don't know how old he is.

But he's getting pretty old and his stuff still doing it. Yeah, Paul McCartney out doing he's 80 something years old and he's doing shows right now. And it holds up. Will it hold up when these guys are, you know, like the stones out there at 80-something years old? And if it doesn't, that's okay.

Maybe they're just looking for the moment here, and that's fine. What do you think? 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884, if you want to weigh in on that, or any other topics that you've got on your mind. 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. This is Peter Rosenberger.

This is Truth Talk Live, and we'll be right back. Sure top wine. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. This is Peter Rosenberger.

Glad to be with you, 866-34-TRUTH-866. 3487884. We had a little technical problem, got a bit cut off, but what we're talking about is music, sacred versus contemporary. Christian music, praise music. What are some questions?

What are some thoughts? What are some issues that you may have? And I was just referencing the the group skillet. And they've got this pretty heavy metal turn on O Come O Come Emanuel that a lot of people talk about on social media. I mean, they've done an amazing job with it, and it's well pretty.

Uh but I'm asking you What are your thoughts on that? Or just the general status of music in the church as it is anyway? Buxman in Dayton, Ohio. Let's go to the phones. Buxman, what are your thoughts?

I bet you got some thoughts on this. What do you think? Wow, brother, you are blessing me with today's topic. Uh Peter, because I'm a musician. I was a paid worship leader at one point in my maturation with the Lord Jesus Christ.

So I've got a lot of insights if you've got the time, brother. But I'll try to, especially if you've got other callers, I'll try to keep it flowing. We'll do the best we can. What did you play? Uh, I was a worship figure, so I played guitar and vocals.

You pretty good at it, Buxman? I got hired. They paid me money to do it.

Okay.

Well, what's on your mind about it? Tell me your thoughts on this.

Okay, well, I was believe it or not, brother, I was keeping notes as I was driving the bus mobile. And I wrote down your three points. You said your first one, Brother Peter, was what is the purpose of church music? Remember that? That's what you ask.

Okay, so I will give you. What I understand that to be inside a church service, music is to be handled differently. Here's the purpose, and I believe it was our father, Peter, that just downloaded to me the answer to what you just posed just a couple of minutes ago. Here it is, in one word. And I've got two verses to back it up.

Unite When we sing a worship song, We are there for a specific purpose. We're not at the grocery store. We're not in our offices in our in our laundry yards. We are there gathered as one, of one accord, to focus our entire uh thinking processes on the Lord Jesus Christ. The Psalms were designed To take.

Bible concepts, I'm talking about all 150. In our book of Psalms. to take snippets and concepts of the Bible. All the Bible teachings that it wants us to learn on every topic that comes into our human experience. and put it to a rhythm and a melody.

So that we will get that information processed through our emotional systems. Or as the Bible says, all our hearts. Minds. And strength.

So it's so old music. Brother Peter, you know, like our dear black friends sing. And I'll tell you what, I love listening. I love going to Dayton and listening to the all-black brothers of mine, sisters of mine, sing. I mean, do you know?

I mean, people may not know how much. How many great musicians came out of Dayton? I mean Ohio, the breeders. Yeah. We've actually got a Rhythm and Blues museum.

In downtown Dayton. It just opened about all. I'm gonna guesstimate about five years ago, brother. But don't, don't, don't. Hey, Mike from Dayton, you might be able to call in.

I don't remember when that museum. was uh was was instituted, but it's awesome. Yeah. So back to your question: what is the purpose of church music? It's to unite.

Us.

Well we gotta we gotta we gotta be a little bit more specific. Unite us in what? You might as in one account to sing Play music. Money. Hang on.

Hold on. Your phone is messing up a little bit here. You're not as. Stand by. I will take it off.

Yep. Yep. Hold on. Let me change it over. Hold on.

Talk amongst yourselves. I'll give you a topic. Use it in churches. Why are we doing it? There we go.

How's that sound? Is that better? It's much better.

Okay.

to unite. Psalm 133 is a psalm of S-O-N-G. But we call it A PSA L M that was once had music to it. in the ancient Uh that was the ancient hymnal. That was and that had music to it.

I hear a lot of music where the congregation is united, but I'm not sure what they're united in. That's well the well, that's up to each person's heart, Brother Peter. Do they want to think about something else? As they're just minds they're saying, I think you're missing my point. We could sing a song.

I remember watching a bunch of people, for example, singing along with ACDC that they were on a highway to hell. and they were absolutely united on that. They certainly were, but there's nothing.

So the question is: whatever we're seeing. What are we united in doing? What is the purpose of this? And it is to, and you can find it really in the shorter catechism. of the Westminster Confession of Faith.

What is the chief end of man? To glorify God, to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.

So does this song. Glorify God. Correct.

So now since we're in a cognizant Notion that we are to be in here for this purpose. We aren't there to rock out with ACDC. We're there to rock out with the rock of Israel. The Lord Jesus Christ.

So, all those who are called by his name, we are to gather as one accord, sing unto him, because it's very. evident especially in the Old Testament. That that is a sweet-smelling fragrance. When we when we offer ourselves our souls, we love him with our souls. in a gathering of fellow believers, his family.

So, the reason for music is to worship God in one accord as an entire family, whether it be the church down the street, your church, or the other Christian church.

Okay, so that's what we are to do. We are to say, you know what, you love God? Yes. What's your name again? My name's Busby.

What's yours? My name is Steve.

Well, Brother Steve, it's nice to meet you. Shake my hand. You are my brother. We have the same father, but of a different mother. And we are going to sing this song to our mutual father as we follow along in these lyrics.

And those dear magicians up there play the song for us to work our words. Two to our United Front. Our Lord Jesus Christ. Does that make sense?

Well, it does. Uh, you know, one of the questions I always ask is, is the music helping us worship or is it helping us watch the people on stage worship? That is a heart issue, dear brother. I'm glad you brought that up because, from the worship perspective, the worship leader perspective, and I've been on many church stages. I can see the ones who are really engaged saying, God, heal me, or thank you for the blessing of my daughter, or God, I just need to sense you right now.

Those are three separate people. And if you stay observant as you're watching the congregation's faces, their expressions, you will see the guys that's just standing there. They ain't singing. They didn't even tap on a toe, Brother Peter. They're just waiting for all that Haba Java to stop.

It's hard. It's a hard issue. Hold on. Take a beat. I'm not.

Real comfortable telling, go ahead and pronouncing what people are thinking or not thinking. When they're doing it, sometimes there are times when I stand very still when the congregation is singing just because I'm just. pondering what I'm hearing. And I'm thinking about the lyrics that I'm hearing. Doesn't mean I'm not worshiping, it just means I'm being very still.

I appreciate that little bit of pushback, but I'll tell you what, for years and years and years, I actually questioned them because I wanted to do my worship reading as unto the Lord, Colossians 3:23. Colossians 3:23, Do your work is unto the Lord, not as unto men.

So I wasn't there to impress. The congregation. I was there to impress God. And when I would do that, I would go to the men, go to the women, hey, What did you like or not like about the worship set?

Well, Marsden, this was a little Okay, I'll make a tweet. What about you, sweetie?

Well, this was great, Buzzman. It's not okay. I'll keep that going.

So, when I would get in those kinds of conversations, Peter, they would say, you know what? I wasn't really into it, Muskins. Oh, okay, I'll put that down in my list too.

Well, that's very Insightful from somebody who's been there, stood on the stage, and done it. And I share that with you. I've done it myself many, many, many years. And it is a. We're going to explore this more when we come back in the next block here.

866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. We'll be right back. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. This is Peter Rosenberger.

Glad to be with you, 866. 34 Truth, 866-348. 78, 84. We're talking about music in the church, and it was just the conversation. Was sparked by my recent viewing of this new video that's put out by Skillet on Ocom Ocom Emanuel.

That's more of kind of a Heavy metal. I don't know if it's grunge. I don't even know what grunge is. To me, grunge is people just don't wash their hair very much and sing and yell real loud. Um but I don't know what that is.

So I I um But I was watching it and of course the text is great, the song's great, it's been around a long time. But my question is: what do you think of what's going on in the church with church music, with sacred music?

Now Full disclosure, my background, I've been playing the piano since I was five. For those of you keeping score, that's more than fifty five years ago. And I majored in music. I've studied it extensively, played on it professionally, and I've done a lot. I've also served as a music minister of a church.

And uh I I have done a lot of this and still do. I look at church music a little bit differently now.

Now that I'm a little bit older and I grew up on different kinds of music than most people did today. Uh the stuff that there's today I'm I'm not sure that I relate to it very well, but that's okay. Uh when when Keith Green came along, a lot of people didn't relate to him very well. In fact, I remember there's a friend of mine who's playing at a really large Baptist church, and in Nashville, when we lived in Nashville and we lived there for many, many years. And this guy is one of the best keyboard players I've ever heard.

And I mean he's just great. And uh we were both students at Belmont there in Nashville and um He was playing and he decided to do a hymn arrangement or something. And during the thing, he put in a major seven chord.

Now for those of you who don't know what that is, it's more of a it's a It's just an upper structure chord. It gives some nice flavor to the chord. It's nice. It's a nice, nice chord. And he is a very, very, very, very good pianist and keyboard player.

And the senior pastor in this large church in Nashville, Tennessee. after the service yanked him back to his office. And just excoriated him. I think it's a very good idea.

Well, there is nothing. unsanctified about a major seven chord? That's ignorance. That's just musical ignorance, and that's somebody legislating where Scripture did not. And it was foolish.

It really hurt this guy's heart. And for a long time, he didn't want to even play in church anymore. And I can understand that. And that's just foolishness. And I had a pastor once wanted me to play a particular song at church.

And I told him I I wasn't real comfortable 'cause I I don't particularly like playing For congregations. A song that says, Yeah, Lord, yeah. And it's it's it was just a contemporary Christian song that had a great groove that he liked listening to on the radio, but it was not a congregational song. And I said, look, it's a mediocre song. And he said, 'Well, that's your opinion'?

I said, 'Well, it's an educated opinion. And it had nothing to offer. And here's some questions I would ask. you to ask about music at your church. And this is about the musical integrity and the craft of the song, okay?

But let's just assume it has decent lyrics. But would the melody carry the weight of the lyric if the band was unplugged? No you know, everything was an acoustic set. Would the melody carry the weight of the song? And a lot of these songs have great grooves, but they depend on the band to carry it.

and people kind of sway back and forth with it. But do they have are they well crafted songs?

Now think about all the songs that you could recall and you can hum along with. You may not be a professional singer. But you can hum along with it or sing along with it. They have well crafted melodies. The old saying was, if you can't whistle it, It y it needs work on the tune.

Some people may bristle at that because you have uh You know, a lot of people want to hear this. They love this song on the radio and they want to hear it at the church with the great band. But again, if the power goes out, What are you going to play? If the power goes out. What are you going to do?

Because I've been in situations like that when the power goes out. That's why I don't like doing a lot of electronic stuff with it. I like having just give me a keyboard, just a piano. And I I can play a piano in the dark. If I have to.

Does the musical structure support the message? Or does it overwhelm it? Let me give you an example. I was watching Christian television one time. And there was this band up there.

This is on TBN. In There was a band on stage and they were just rocking. I mean the base was just On fire. the drums, the background vocals, I mean they they were just smoking. But you know what they were singing?

The lyric was I have been crucified with Christ. I have been crucified with Christ. I have been, and they just over and over and over while the bass was thumping and everything else. And I'm thinking, You have no idea what you're saying, do you? Is that the statement you want to make to a thumping bass?

And a rocking-out guitar and drums and everything else. I have been crucified with Christ. Is that what it means to crucify oneself? Is that what it means to take up your cross and follow Him? And you're just rocking like this.

It seemed very disconnected to me. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's what you like. I don't know. If that's something you like, 866-34-TRUTH.

Eight six six three four eight seventy eight eighty four. And maybe I can see it from a different point of view. To me, it just seemed. like there was a disparity of what they were singing and what they were playing. The text was different.

Than the music. And it didn't match up. And that's something that's really important to ask. And then you've got um If the congregation sang this song a cappella. No musical instruments.

Would it still hold up?

Now think about things that do hold up. For example. I remember talking to this one guy who wanted to come play at the church, and he wanted to come and he was looking at getting a job, playing the guitar. I said, well, do you know any hymns? He said, well, I know Amazing Grace.

I said, well, that's good. Most people do. You know anything else?

Well, I know a few songs you know, some some contour stuff. I've written some of my own stuff. I said, You have any any other hymns?

Well, I know Amazing Grace. And he said he knew Amazing Grace three times. I would hope he would know a few more things. But think about this. Can you sing It Is Well With My Soul without any musical instruments?

Of course you can. Holy, holy, holy. A mighty fortress is our God. Amazing Grace? You know, blessed assurance, how great thou art, great is thy faithfulness.

All of these songs can be sung without any musical instruments. Need a be.

Now what's the difference? And I'm not saying you have to, I'm just simply saying you can.

Well, we got another one from Dayton, Ohio here, Phil. Phil wants to weigh in on this. Phil, what's on your mind about this? Pop. Yeah.

Hold on just a second. Hold on. Hold on. You're you're a bit distorted here. Try it again.

Yeah. We'll see if we can get a better connection here with Phil. And uh his phone is is not connected very well.

So ask Questions About your music. But don't do what that pastor did when he excorited that young player for playing a major seven chord. The pastor went to divinity school. He didn't go to music school. And if you're going to come after your musician for the type of chord he's playing.

I would suggest you know a little bit more about music. and explain why. And why not? But The most important thing that a pastor could do for their music minister. The most important thing they can do.

It is to make sure they really, truly understand the gospel. The more a music minister understands God's redemptive work through Christ. Imagine what that'll do to their music ministry. The more they understand it, The more discipled they are. And then turn them loose and let the Holy Spirit work through their talent.

But hold a high bar.

Okay, Phil, let's give it a shot now. Is that better, Phil? That worked better. Oh, Phil, you sound beautiful, Phil. I was in it's actually Not anymore, Phil.

You you don't you don't sound beautiful anymore. Do you have a landline you can get to, Phil? Maybe Phil can get through a landline. He really wants to talk about this, and I really want to hear what he's got to say.

So I've been asking you, what do you think of your music in your church? What do you think was going on? You think you're musicians? have a strong understanding of the gospel? Of scripture?

Of doctrine? Or is it a moating? And they're talented. but it's really more about a spectacle as opposed to leading in worship. Or sometimes they get so wrapped up in rigidity of.

Certain types of music that this is what no, we're not going to play, you know, we're going to only play Bach here. And I disagree with that too. I don't think there has to be that kind of rigidity. And I've done all of the above. Whether it's Bach, Gaither.

Or grant. I've done it all. The question is What are we saying? about God in this. How is this lifting our eyes up to God?

What kind of Christian does this song shape us to become? Does it teach us to endure suffering? Or simply chase our feelings. Jesus is my friend, he bailed me out again, that kind of song. I call em seven elevens too, when you seven words eleven times.

And we everybody just kind of sways to the music. And I remember I was at one church and I was part of a worship team there. These are all. Really good musicians. I mean, these are Nashville-level musicians.

And, you know, there would always be um Somebody, this was more of a charismatic type church. And there would always be somebody kind of get some kind of word from the Lord if we played a song that they liked that sounded really good, and they'd get a word from it's always the same word, and they'd blurt it out and uh. And then one time they didn't do it. And I looked to the guy that leads the music. He said, I guess we didn't play very well.

We didn't get a word from the Lord. And he was not being serious. He was being sarcastic. But that's the kind of thing you don't want. You're not there to get people in the flesh and make it about them and their emotions in that regards.

Are we pointing them to solid ground. of Christ? Are we able to help them? Better understand. God and see his work, In His plan of redemption, are we able to help better understand our need of a Saviour?

You know, I sing hymns every Sunday that are That talk about what a wretch I am. because it's true. And that's why I'm so grateful that I have a Savior. See, it's hard to cry out to a savior you don't think you need. And so, ask about your music.

Don't be afraid to. We'll talk some more about it. I think Phil's going to be with us in the next block. We'll see if we can get him back. 866-34-TRUTH.

866-348-7884. We'll be right back. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. This is Peter Rosenberger, 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884.

If you want to be a part of the program, before we get back to the phones, I want to tell you, you know, of course, we're going into Thanksgiving. The holidays themselves can be a very difficult time for family caregivers. I have been one now for forty years. For a wife with severe disabilities. And it is a tough journey.

And the holidays, you know, everybody's getting all excited about stuff, but for caregivers, it just means a lot more work and a lot more stress and this feeling like, okay, I've got to make this special and maybe the last one, or, you know, there's just so many different things that cause stress. don't try to do this by yourself. And I just put together my new caregiver calendar. I do it every year now. And we live in southwest Montana.

We live up in the Rockies. It is pristinely beautiful. And all of nature out here invites me to look up to look up, to lift my head. And I took pictures from all around where we live here, and I made a calendar out of it, and then I put a quote on each month. To help my fellow caregivers lift their heads just a little bit.

If you want to find out more about how to do that, go to standingwithhope.com. Standingwithhope.com/slash giving. And it is the that Standing With Hope is the ministry Gracie and I founded. We have two programs: a family caregiver outreach and a prosthetic limb outreach that she started for her fellow amputees.

So it's for the wounded and those who care for them. Standingwithhope.com.

Okay, we're going to take a shot. that Phil's phone is now working properly. Phil? Speak to me, baby. Speak to me.

It's funny because I was catching all this Skillet uproar yesterday on social media. And I've been following Skillet for years. I've seen them live, I don't know, four or five, maybe six times, I don't remember. And growing up in the eighties listening to hairbands, Rap Motley Crew, that kind of stuff. That that was the kind of music that I enjoyed.

So as I got older and my life changed to Christ, I ended up listening to Petra and Striper and Skillet, the newsboys, mercy me. I'm more into That is the joyful noise for me. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to hear That skillet song in my worship service at church. That you can't do it. Why?

I I don't know. Just just that feeling in that group setting. I I I'm okay with the guitar and the piano. in the church, but I want to hear the voices of the congregations. Do you know why?

I don't. I just, I just, when, when it's those worship songs there in the church, I just want to hear the voices, I guess. And by the way, that skillet tune they did. That Skillet song, Okama Come. I mean, they wail on this thing.

This thing is, they are amazingly talented. They are very talented. And those four people are an awesome group of of Christians. And and Corey, I think, is is the wife of the l the lead singer, right? Yes.

She she's got an amazing voice.

Well, and I think the backup vocals are by Jen, who is the drummer. The younger girl who's the drummer. But they are fantastic. They are all just really, really good. But I think you have.

You have brought up such an amazing point. Why don't you want to hear that on the Sunday morning service? Yeah, I just I prefer to hear the voices of sixty, eighty people. in harmony, singing together. But for my personal list on the side where it's just me at work or in my garage or at home.

I like to buy more upbeat stuff. I'm wound tighter in a spring, and that works for me.

So what I hear you saying is, there is a significant difference. Between Music Individual For fun, entertainment, or just for your own personal thing and corporate Worship. It it is for me. It is for me. Like I said, I love my skillet and Mercy Me and Newsboys, but I don't particularly want that rocking sound.

in my church. That's just that's just me.

Well, and I've also played a lot of funerals over the years. And um I I I'm always intrigued by what people pick out. for their funeral music. And the vast majority of them, I think I've only been to one when there wasn't a hymn. An old hymn.

Right. And I didn't play that one. Play that one because I don't play funerals where they don't want to do hymns. I'll attend them, but I won't play them if they want me to play it. And I never play weddings anymore because I'm tired of it.

But it's uh don't bring it, but I hear what you're saying, Philip, because when we're there, they hear people. I've had the experience of being in a place where you know, a thousand I was at Bible College for several years um before transferring to music school and to hear a thousand voices singing a cappella. Holy, holy, holy. Fantastic. There's nothing like it.

There's just nothing like it. It is overwhelming. And and I think What are we missing in our corporate church worship services? Are we missing this? Have we improperly instructed this next generation to understand sacred music versus Contemporary, that's fun, it's great.

I love it, and I play a lot of contemporary stuff. In the service, but there's a way to play it, like that group I was telling you about that I saw on TV and they're singing, I have been crucified in Christ, and they're just wailing on it. Right. Yeah. And and the last thing I want It is.

I'll play blues chords on stuff. I was sitting there one time, I was playing, I used to go to the church in Nashville where that shooting was. Where they where they shot up to school. I played the funeral of the sexton that that that was shot. He was the first one killed, Mike.

And I would play every Sunday morning as people were coming into church. The pastor had asked me, senior pastor had asked me to play to kind of calm the place down a little bit, just for more attitude of reverence and so forth, as people are coming in. And I do pretty elaborate hymn arrangements and things like that, but I throw in some pretty high-dollar chords, non-sanctioned chords, if you will. And he was walking in front of me and he was. And he was lighting the candles, and I threw in a flat nine chord on this hemorrhage when I was doing it.

It adds a lot of color. And I looked at him and I said, You know, I can get brought up on charges in some churches for that cord. And he bowed his head to laugh a little bit because of what I said, but I. I love playing and I love playing. I'll play all kinds of chords and throw in some just lush things with it and things that maybe people are not used to hearing with it.

But it's always done. Am I pointing them to the text which is pointing them to Christ? That's the number one goal. What am I doing here? We're going to see more of this change as time goes on with the generational change.

as time moves forward, it's probably going to be more upbeat like that. Which maybe sir I'm a fan of, but maybe. Not sure.

Well, you know what? Let's watch it together. Let's see what happens. Let's watch it together. I want to make sure that we're.

properly teaching people The more we disciple our music ministers. And then turn them loose and let the Holy Spirit use their gifts and stay out of that particular thing. Just turn them loose, but make sure they understand scripture, doctrine. God's redemptive work and watch what happens. And uh, but it's a great video, by the way.

It's a great arrangement they've done of Okamo Kamu Manual. You know, and and I'm like you, I mean, they just they they are extremely talented people. What I appreciate about them as a group is they also weighed into. secular concerts And John will still on that breather spend ten or fifteen minutes preaching the gospel of Jesus. Granted, some people are screaming, they don't want to hear it.

but he has waded into that dark side of rock music and shining that light. And I really appreciate that they've been able to do that. Over time, he's he's uh him and his wife, that that band is very fascinating to if you look into it.

Well, that is very fascinating what they do. I think that's a great testimony to them, Phil, and of what they've done, the impact they've had on your life, and great music. And this will be a conversation that goes on for a long time with a lot of different folks. And, you know, I. I love rock and roll.

Hmm. I I grew up on it and I I I love it immensely. But I also understand there's, like you just said, some things don't belong on the Sunday morning service. Agreed. They just don't.

Or not for me anyway, they don't. I know there's plenty of fellowships out there that have a full blown rock band up there going, and it's like going to a concert, and that's not why I attend church on Sunday. Indeed.

Well, Phil, I thank you for the insight. Thank you for the call. Thank you for the thoughts on that, and I appreciate it. Absolutely. Yeah, buddy.

And we'll listen to you tomorrow. All right. Appreciate it. Thanks, sir. It's been a great conversation about this, and we'll have more of this.

There's lots to unpack here, and things that we can ask. Um But I I think that At the at the End of the day When it comes to the Sunday morning service or the worship service, Ask yourself, is this music something the congregation can sing together? or is it something only a few gifted vocalists can perform? When I was playing for the church. I wasn't interested in them.

Seeing how good I can play. I'm not playing for their applause. I'm playing for their understanding, to be able to facilitate them understanding the compact theology that's in this song that we've chosen. And I don't care what the song is, if it's if it's got good theology to it. And it can be something simple.

You know, he is Lord, He is Lord, He is risen from the dead, and He is Lord. Every knee shall be. Very simple song. This is the day that the Lord hath made. Old Course has been around forever.

Simple stuff. Are you playing it well? And are you pointing people to Christ or are people so busy looking at you? and watching you, and applauding you as a musician, Those are questions that we should Ask ourselves and ask of our musicians. Thanks for the conversation today.

You can see more at PeterRosenberger.com. PeterRosenberger.com. Don't forget the caregiver calendar is out there. And we'll see you next time. I always enjoy this time on Truth Talk Live.

Great conversation. And happy Thanksgiving if I don't see you next Wednesday. Truth talk line.