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Hi from the Salvation Army, and you're listening to Words of Life. These are the words, these are the words, these are the words of life. These are the words, these are the words, these are the words of life. Welcome back to Words of Life. I'm Bernie Dake, and this week we are excited to have a new guest with us, Sergeant Barry Brown.
Welcome, Barry. Thank you. Brother, tell us who you are and what you do for the Salvation Army.
Well, as you mentioned, I'm Sergeant Barry Brown. I work for the Texas Divisional Headquarters out of Dallas. and been with the Salvation Army since 1999 as an employee. I'm the Divisional Director of Correctional Ministries for the State of Texas. Anything related to correctional ministries in the state of Texas, we try to assist.
Now, for a long time, we did that primarily with a focus on the incarcerated. When I moved into this position 15 years ago, I realized that we had been missing something, and that was the ministry to the staff. And so we approach things now as a holistic. Approach to ministry, not just for those that are incarcerated, which many people, and even myself for many, many years as a volunteer, have been going into correctional facilities for. 28 years.
And so I see that we had missed a lot of things. And I think we, not just the Salvation Army, but many organizations and ministries missed the opportunity. For the staff. And there's some very scary but real information out there. about the impact that correctional facilities have upon the staff themselves for high divorce rates, abuse and suicides.
So we wanted to make sure that we included them in ways, and we can talk a little bit more later about that. Can you tell us a little bit about your early life and your journey through Christianity?
Well, it's an interesting one, as I'm sure most people's journey is. As a young boy, my mother took me and my three older sisters to church Sunday after Sunday. In my teenage years, I walked away from the church. Me and my friends were talking on the back row of the church and had one of the men come to me and say, you need to be down at the altar. And Young teenage self, I said, you know, you need to get your hands off me.
And I got up and walked out. My life went downhill after that, went through a bad marriage. That brought me back to the church for a short period of time. And within a month and a half, I walked away again.
So this time when I came back, it was after the death of my father in 1997. That's what the Lord used to get my attention. And get my attention, he did. uh realize that um The Lord had spared my dad from an accident some years before I was born. the near-death experience that he shared with me.
was real and he and I talked about that before he passed. I realize the Lord had spared him and as a result, I'm here. And I realized the Lord doesn't make mistakes.
So he must have spared me for a reason, spared my dad so I was born and spared me through situations.
So it must be that I'm here for a reason.
So my prayer is, Lord, use me to make a difference. There's a burning desire. Hey, you're listening to the Salvation Army's Words of Life. We're going to take a quick bad break, and we'll be right back. Hi, I'm Christy Graham, host of the show On the Ground with Samaritan's Purse.
And I recently heard a testimony of how God rescued one of our staff members when they were hopeless and thinking about ending their life. And I had a voice in my head, I want you to live and you can do it with my help. It was beyond any doubt clear, that's Jesus. Hear the full story by listening to On the Ground with Samaritan's Purse, wherever you get your podcasts. Again, that's On the Ground with Samaritan's Purse.
We've been focused on community engagement as we've been discussing how we, as followers of Christ, should be the best neighbors. And as we think about that, What is a community of people that we often overlook, in your opinion?
Well, in my opinion, that is definitely as far as any of the work ministries do. It's the incarcerated individuals and those individuals that have found themselves either in a place as a result of their choices, their decisions, or sometimes their association. They may not have be the one that was They were part of what happened. But nonetheless, they find themselves incarcerated, so they're not. Not always the aspect of being guilty.
Of the action, but guilty of association and tried and sentences that. But those people that are living in correctional facilities around the nation, around the world for that matter, but there's a huge mission field. That we have overlooked. And I'm sure there's various reasons not everybody's called to this area of ministry. We have some great ministries doing the work.
Salvation Sharmi, we have some of us, but not very many of us that are directly engaged. But we are overlooking the people that are incarcerated and behind the razor wire, the concrete and the steel, thinking that they're forgotten. But as much as what we can do, we want to let them know that they're not forgotten and God hasn't forgotten them. Amen. I'm encouraged to hear you say it's not just the incarcerated people that we're ministering to.
You include the people that are working in these facilities. I imagine even the families that are without parents or whomever, relatives that are now incarcerated. That's encouraging. The moon. What would you say is the biblical foundation that calls us as Christians to care for those people in prison?
We could go to scripture, and I think the one that we come to most often is Matthew 25. And it says, When I was in prison, you came to me, but You know, we can see that and think, well, that's just one. But I think we have to do a very deliberate effort to deny. I wouldn't say redact, but maybe if you want to use that word, but deny the fact that there's other scripture. And when we get to how sincere we are about following what the scripture says, you can look at Hebrews 13, 3 and says, remember those in prison as though you were in prison with them.
You know, we look at what Jesus. himself did. Scripture says if we know him, we must walk as he walked in 1 John chapter 2.
So how are we walking? Are we walking towards the people? Are we bringing our light into their darkness? And so If Jesus did this, Look at what he did. He gave a promise to a thief on the cross.
that acknowledged him in the final moments. We see that Jesus took Varabbas' place. I know there's a retired officer that said this once and said, if it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me. And what he's referring to is reaching to the lives of those incarcerated and impacted by crime.
Sometimes just bluntly destructive decisions and we've all been there. But, you know, it says this, Jesus, you know, when he, in 1 Peter 3, it talks about being made alive in the spirit. He then went and preached to the spirits in prison. After they were disobedient long ago, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah as the ark was being constructed.
So, you know, we miss that, and I've missed that for a while, but it's like I see that, and it's like Jesus went and preached to the spirits in prison that were being held since the time of Noah. Whatever the deeper theological depths of that, we can make it very deep and theological. But I think on the surface. It says what it says. And Isaiah is one more.
It says to open the blind eyes to release prisoners from dungeons. those who live in darkness from prisons.
So It's throughout. We pray that you're enjoying and being blessed by this conversation. We're going to take one more ad break and we'll be right back. Hey friends, it's Catherine from Christian Parent Crazy World. I just had to tell you how excited I am about an upcoming episode dropping May 11th with Christy Graham from Samaritans Purse.
We talk about what it looks like to raise kids with a global, faith-filled perspective in a world that can feel so small and so self-focused. Christy shares powerful stories from the front lines: children receiving life-saving heart surgery, women in traumatic situations rebuilding their lives through Christ, and even incredible testimonies of faith in the middle of war and persecution. And I'll be honest, some of these stories had me on the edge of my seat. They reminded me that God is moving in big, bold ways all over the world. And it challenged me as a mom to think differently about how I'm discipling my own kids.
Truly, I believe this episode will encourage you, stretch you, and give you a bigger vision of your family's faith.
So, mark your calendar for May 11th. You don't want to miss this special episode of Christian Parent Crazy World. Based on what you've seen and the interaction that you've had with people that are associated with incarceration, whether that's the incarcerated or those that are providing care for them, why would you say it's important for the church to show up? Like any of us, it's important for people to know that somebody cares. I would say for the church, the importance is to let people know.
whether they're incarcerated or not. or they may have been formally incarcerated to let them know that somebody cares. And for this church to show up, there's something in what I hold as the key point of what I do and the approach in my visits is basically the ministry of presence. Showing up, showing up, being consistent, listening, not going with a hidden agenda of trying to convert somebody to change somebody, because I didn't want that, I didn't respect that. That's what turned me away from the church.
But be real, and that's what they're looking for. The guys that I visit and I've seen over these 28 years. Of going into the sillies, they're very skilled at reading people. They know when you're real, they know when you're not, they know when you're faking it.
So be real. And if nothing else, show them Jesus. Bring our light into their darkness. Yeah. It's good.
We say as a Savish Army, meet human needs in his name without discrimination. And so hope is a need. Are we meeting that need? And what about the discrimination? Do we predetermine in our mind, in our assessment, as our criteria?
Well, I'll meet this need as long as this person meets my criteria of being worthy or I'm not afraid of them or whatever. It's without discrimination that you can look somebody in the face or. Pretty well, I know what they've done. I don't ever ask them, but to know it's not with discrimination.
So Yeah. Oh. Yeah. How would you say ministry inside impacts the communities these individuals eventually return to?
Well, if they're, if they know they're going to be getting out, um, You know, what are they going to be returning to? And so when you equip them, if the work, if you sow the seed in their lives while they're there. They have the opportunity to grow. And I've shared this with guys for many years, people I visited. is that if they can live their faith inside a correctional facility where they're Their life, their faith, their profession is on.
Trial 24-7 Yeah. They're being screened, they're being watched. Looking somebody's watching for a slip-up, for a word, an action. But if they can live their faith inside there. There's really no reason they can't live it out here and once they release and when they go to their families Then we have a different community.
We have people that actually we have real life cases, even within the Salvation Army, of individuals who've been incarcerated.
Some for an extended period of time, some for significant crimes, but. Because we believe in second chances. As God gives. And so there are individuals that are contributing. And whether it's the Savish Army, whether it's other ministries.
They're formally incarcerated individuals, men and women. That volunteer have volunteered.
Some are in our employment. Um Well screen, go through all the processes, HR, so I don't want to scare anybody in that respect. But there is opportunities for people to come back out and make an impact and live out their faith that started in there. The worst thing that can happen is, oh, I was lived my faith in here. I was accepted in prison, and they come out.
The church doesn't accept them. There's no opportunities for them. They're going to return. They'll basically gravitate to that which is familiar. We will return to that which gives us security.
And so for them to find acceptance, which I think is a very big word in many different ways. To accept them and to say, you still have relevance, you still can contribute. The Salvation Army's mission, doing the most good, means helping people with material and spiritual needs. You become a part of this mission every time you give to the Salvation Army. Visit SalvationArmyusa.org to offer your support.
You can subscribe to Words of Life on your favorite podcast store or visit SalvationArmysoundcast.org. Join us next time for the Salvation Army's Words of Life. These are the words, these are the words of life. These are the words, these are the words, these are the words of life. Thanks so much for listening to Words of Life.
We want to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the show. Visit lifeaudio.com, where you'll find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They have shows about prayer, Bible studying, parenting, and more. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
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