Why Is Support for Israel Fading?

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And I'm going to start you off. We've got Genesis 12:3, and it says, And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee. And in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed. And for a long time, guys. The evangelical Christians have always been big supporters of Israel.

But I've noticed in the last couple of years with people like Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson coming against Israel, even support for Israel amongst evangelicals is down. And so I said, who should I have on? I've got Dr. Michael Brown, who's coming to us from Charlotte, North Carolina. And Dr.

Brown, you've looked into this thing a little bit. Is that right? Oh yeah, I've I've lived in the midst of this question for many decades, Mike, as a Jewish believer in Jesus. one of the first things the rabbi wanted to talk to me about in early 1972 was church history. And how much anti-Semitism there was in church history.

And it was so striking because everywhere I turned in the circles where I traveled for years. Among fellow believers in Jesus, there was great love for Israel. There was recognition that God had brought the Jewish people back to the land. I've run into that all around the world. Christians living in tribal regions in India, just reading the Bible and recognizing that God brought the Jewish people back to the land.

And yet Uh absolutely. That support is a And while I I wouldn't refer to Candace Solon's or Tucker Carlson as evangelical Christians. for sure among many Christians. Right. or professing Christians on the right, For Israel is waning, no question about it.

Let me ask you this. Why do you think that is? There are several reasons. This may sound a little odd, but let me throw this out. I believe that anti Semitism, irrational hatred of the Jewish people, demonizing of the Jewish people.

It's kind of Part of Fallen human nature, part of satanic activity in the world. And it's basically the default position. Think of that as that's the way the current is running. And unless you really have strong biblical foundations, and an understanding of what God is doing spiritually. Then It's all too easy to just go with the tide, to go with the current.

And Either in the case of some who believe all kinds of wild conspiracy theories against the Jews, which is nothing new. We've had this for many centuries or You simply don't have a biblical foundation. You believe the church has replaced Israel. you don't see the return of the Jewish people to the land as as related to scripture. Then basically, you're going to look at the worst-case scenario: evil Israel, big bad Israel, America shouldn't support.

And you get sucked up in that Yeah, and so even I'm looking at a study right now by the New York Times, and it says that American support for Israel dramatically declines. Polls find, and it says a majority of American voters now oppose sending additional economic and military aid to Israel, a stunning reversal in public opinion since the October 7th, 2023 attacks. And so, yes, there are many people who are skeptical, Dr. Brown, and they're skeptical of pretty much everything. And they said, hey, you know, we were right about the COVID vaccines, they'll say, or they'll say we were right about, you know, they'll say, some people say the stolen electorate, whatever it is.

And now they're saying they're going down all of these different rabbit holes. And for some people, I think it's almost too hard to even talk to them because I posted literally a picture of Israel, of an Israeli flag today, and somebody just said genocide. And I said, are you referring to the October 7th, 2023 attacks? And they said, no, Israel. Israel did that to themselves.

Israel planned that attack and they did it themselves. How do you even respond to that? Yeah, Mike, again, you're hitting key points and that the New York Times survey the article that you referenced. is very chilling.

So let's break down a few things. There has been A constant media campaign against Israel. It has been day and night, day and night, genocide, genocide, genocide, genocide, genocide. What you have to remember is the charge that Israel is committing genocide against Gaza goes back many years before this. In other words, this charge has come up before, or that Israel was guilty of the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.

These charges have been made for decades.

Now with Israel being forced to fight a war differently than anyone else. In other words, you are right there on the ground. As people are being bombed, you are right there talking to people who've had to flee their city. Just imagine as the Allies were bombing Nazi Germany if you had that kind of coverage, and now the Allies would be accused of the genocide of the Nazis.

So it has been a day and night campaign If you look at young people in America, as of December, 2023.

So barely two months after the October 7th massacre, 51% of young people surveyed said That Israel should be ended. and given over to Hamas.

So very quickly, Israel was no longer the victim. Israel was the evil empire trying to destroy the innocent indigenous peoples surrounding them. It's some of it's even the Marxist narrative of the oppressor and the oppressed So just like being a white male in America makes you automatically guilty, right? business with the stereotypes and the way things have been painted. And it's the same with Israel.

Israel, forget the fact that it is multiracial, forget the fact that a good percentage of the people of Israel have lived in that region for many, many centuries, even millennia. Put that all aside, Israel now is the one that dispossesses the indigenous people and is committing genocide. And pretty much we know what the Nazis learn if you repeat a big lie over and over and over and over. People will ultimately believe it. Not only so, When when you uh You mentioned just the The immediate response.

Same thing with me. I'll post just an Israeli flag, just that, on Facebook. And the responses go absolutely wild. And the problem, as you also outlined, is that Some of the conspiracy theories turned out not to be conspiracy theories. They turned out to be true.

Some of the concerns about the COVID vaccine and things like that.

So now you can't dismiss anything, no matter how wacky. And that's the challenge. Rational discourse doesn't work. presenting facts and evidence doesn't work. The only thing that works basically is throw out a theory against the Jews and you'll get yourself a lot of clicks and likes on social media.

Yeah, that's right. And you had mentioned something before. You mentioned replacement theology. Here's the problem that I've seen. People who believe in replacement theology, the ones that I know, none of them say that they believe in replacement theology.

They call it something else.

Sometimes I hear fulfillment theology. Once in a while, I'll hear supersessionism. And now I'm even hearing something called covenant theology.

So what they'll say is that the promises for the Jews in the Old Testament were fulfilled and Jesus was the fulfillment of that. And so now that it's all of those who believe in Jesus, now we are the church of Israel. What does the Bible actually have to say about this, Dr. Brown? It is so.

So again, it's a very, very big subject. I'll try to break it down as easily as I can. Jesus does not abolish the law of the prophets. He fulfills. He brings.

the biblical text to its full meaning, the Old Testament text. God gave promises to Yeah. and the New Testament affirms not cancels those promises, it affirms them. In Romans fifteen, Paul says that the Messiah Came into the world and he confirmed, not canceled, the promises to the patriarchs. And one of the promises to the Patriarchs, one of the great promises Along with the multiplication of Abraham's physical seed to be a massive multitude, not just the spiritual seed.

which is Jew and Gentile who believe in Jesus. But the physical sleeve. Not only the multiplication of the physical seed, but that the land of Canaan would be Israel's inheritance. Forever. The New Testament confirms that.

Jesus speaks of Jewish people being scattered from Jerusalem. and then being regathered. In Luke 24, they'll be scattered until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

So it is a biblical promise. That the Jewish people will be regathered back to the land, you say, but under the Sinai covenant, If they sinned, they'd be expelled. 100% true. Except the Sinai covenant, Paul writes in Galatians 3.17, does not annul the promise. God gave a promise unconditionally to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Before the Sinai Covenant, that has not been annulled by the Sinai Covenant, and God in His mercy has brought the Jewish people back. Dr. Brown, we will be right back after these messages: 866-34 TRUTH. Truth talk lie. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com.

All right, guys, we are back with Dr. Michael Brown, and we had a question over the break from a Jamal Womble, but I wanted to read this. It's Romans chapter 11, verse 1. It says, I asked then, has God rejected his people? Absolutely not, for I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham from the tribe of Benjamin.

God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Or don't you know what the scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars. I am the only one left, and they are trying to take my life. But what was God's answer to him?

I have left 7,000 for myself and have not bowed down to Baal. And so Jamal's question is this, Dr. Brown. He says, does Israel originally belong to the Jewish people? What do you say, sir?

Yes, of course. They're the only people for whom it's been. The eternal homeland.

So we know scripturally that God dispossessed. the people that were living there, the Canaanites and others. It says in Genesis 15 that God waited basically 400 years. until the sin reached a certain level where they were worthy of being judged, God gave the land of Israel to the people of Israel.

So it was the land of Canaan, then became the land of Israel. And there's always been a Jewish presence. Even though Jews were largely expelled from the land for periods of centuries, there's always been a Jewish presence. It's been the Jewish people who are longing to return, the Jewish people who every Passover say next year in Jerusalem, the Jewish people who have had Jerusalem as its capital.

So this has been their homeland. And when the modern Zionist movement was rebirthed, You have to remember now that you're you're dealing with Roughly Half a million people living in what was then called Palestine, the name the Romans gave it in the second century to further distance it from Israel, to name it after their enemies, the Philistines. There are roughly a half million people living there, mainly Arabs.

Some Christians, even a smaller number of Jews, And there was plenty of room for June. Side. And in fact, state solutions were offered To the Arab and Jewish communities in 1937 and 1947, and at each time, In each time, each instance, it was the Arab Muslim leadership that refused. to to live side by side with the Jewish people. but it's been their homeland for three thousand plus years.

Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned the Jews coming back to Israel. There is something called Aliyah. Are you familiar with that? Yeah, aliyah is the Hebrew word for going up.

making a cent, which means immigration. Because That's the biblical idea. Physically and spiritually, you're going up when you go to the land.

So Aliyah is the immigration movement. Yes. Yeah, and so we know people who support that, but then there's also people who say, no, no, they're They want to go back to the bloodline, and they say, Only you have to go back to the bloodline to see if you're really a Jew.

So then the people in Israel they said would not really be Jewish people, but it's based on their bloodline.

So, but then the other side will say, no, Israel is actually the country of Israel, and the Bible actually prophesies about that. And I heard an interview that you did with a black Hebrew Israelite or a debate, I'm sorry, and you discussed that as well. I don't know if you remember that. Oh, yeah, no, I'm not going to forget that. That was that was quite quite the debate.

But just a few comments on that. The first thing is you have to realize Over the centuries, being Jewish has not been a popular thing. And in other words, I even said it to Black Hebrew Israelites. Where were you in Nazi Germany saying we're the real Israelites? We're the real Israelites.

Look at us. Obviously, it's been very difficult to be a Jew over the centuries. We've been expelled from different countries. 1492, we know in America, 1492, Columbus sailed, the ocean blew. You learn it as a kid.

If you're Jewish, you learn in 1482 all non-baptized Jews were expelled from Spain.

So that's happened through our history.

So those who've identified as Jews have either been part of the bloodline or those who converted into Judaism. You say, well, that's not right.

Well, hang on. When Israel came out of Egypt, There were many non-Israelites that came out with them, the book of Exodus records. And they were included in the Sinai Covenant. because they became part of the people of Israel. You have people like Rahab.

who was a Canaanite prostitute. You have people like Ruth, It was a moabite. You have others over the centuries who have joined themselves to the Jewish people and converted.

So they are part of the people.

So yes, the ultimate bloodline goes back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but with intermarriage over the centuries with people marrying into the people of Israel or the faith of Israel. If you marry out, You just assimilate and you become lost to history.

So we can say for sure That those who are claiming to be Jews today have either the physical bloodline connection all the way back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or They are part of those who married in and joined along, just like Ruth, just like Rahab, just like others, which is why you have white Jews, black Jews. yellow Jews, red Jews, et cetera, from every background. of intermarriage. I just want to go back to one thing about replacement theology. Generally speaking, because of the history of antisemitism in the church, It's led to a situation where People don't like to use the term replacement theology.

Because it it's it's negative, it can sound anti-Semitic.

So they'll use terms, which in their view are better terms, fulfillment theology, expansion theology. aspects of covenant theology, as we mentioned. The problem is you end up with the same result. In other words, I say, okay, This promise in the Old Testament that was spoken to the the Jewish people, the people of Israel. about a physical restoration back to the land.

You say no longer applies to them and no longer applies to the physical land. It is the spiritual inheritance of the church. It's replacement theology. It ends up with the same thing.

Somebody else moved into our home and they claim it's their home. The end result is the same. Yeah, that's the same thing that I've heard as well. And somebody I heard recently was talking about NT Wright, and they said he kind of beautifully packaged this thing up. He said, at the end of the day, it was classic replacement theology.

Let me ask you this, Dr. Brown. The Jews getting their homeland back in 1948, was that actually a fulfillment of prophecy in the Bible? Yes, it's a partial fulfillment. In other words, God promised to bring the Jewish people back from all around the world, and we've come from And now the Jewish population in Israel roughly 7 million people is probably over half.

of the Jews worldwide.

So it is ongoing fulfillment. Many biblical prophecies are fulfilled over a period of many, many years. And that's the case here. But we are living in the midst of ongoing fulfillment of biblical prophecy, and you have these waves. Like a few decades back, it was waves of millions of Jews from the former Soviet Union that were looking to flee.

Many of them made their way to Israel. Jews have been moving in from France with heightened anti-Semitism, from England.

So this continues around the world. And yes, it's absolutely. ongoing fulfilling the prophecy. And a simple question I ask. We understand.

that when God blesses No one can curse. When he curses, no one can bless. When he opens the door, no one can close it. When he closes the door, no one can open it. When he scatters, no one can regather.

When he regathers, no one can scatter.

So If he scattered the Jewish people in wrath and judgment for rejecting Moses, the prophets, and the Messiah almost 2,000 years ago. Who regathered us? If it wasn't God. And God scattered us in his anger, then you're saying.

Well, the UN had the power to overrule God.

Well, the Jewish will had the power to overrule God. Or Satan had the power to overrule God. No, that can't be. The only way we're back in the land is because God brought us back. Yeah, absolutely.

And one of the things that I've heard as well is that even the anti-Semitism, even everybody coming against Israel, even everybody coming against the Jewish people, and you can no longer deny it, they said that could actually be a fulfillment of scripture as well. Yeah, just look at Zechariah 14. That says before Jesus returns and his feet touch the Mount of Olives, that that all the nations around the world. gathering of nations around the world will come against Jerusalem. If you just look at UN resolutions, Condemning Israel.

they amount to the vast majority of all such resolutions passed By the UN. You think, well, what about North Korea, or what about Afghanistan, or what about Iran, or what about this country, or that country that oppresses people and murders people, and so on? No. Israel is always the bad guy.

So this universal hatred of Israel is certainly something prophesied in Scripture.

Well, Dr. Michael Brown, we will be right back after this break, and we're going to be talking a little bit more about replacement theology. Is there anti-Semitism in that? We'll be right back after the break. Truth Talk Live You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com.

All right, guys, we're back with Dr. Michael Brown, and we've hit on some pretty big points, but I will tell you this. Not every single person who believes in replacement theology hates Jews. Not every single person who believes in amillennialism or post-millennialism or whatever you want to call it. Not all of them are anti-Semitic, but at the same time, You can't deny the fact that over the centuries, replacement theology has.

Directly or indirectly been directly tied to anti-Semitism. And one of the examples that people will give, Dr. Brown, is even Martin Luther. Yes. First, I'm so glad you made that comment.

I should have made it earlier as well. For sure, there are Christians who hold to various aspects of replacement theology who are not anti-Semitic in any way. It would be completely unfair to characterize them as such. At the same time, there is absolutely no question when you study church history that the theological error that has repeatedly opened the door to anti-Semitism. is replacement theology.

And if we go a little further, To this day, Christians who hold to replacement theology are the quickest to condemn Israel. Whereas Christians who recognize that God brought the Jewish people back to the land Are more likely to be sympathetic to Israel, even while still criticizing them for actions. Martin Luther. 1523, he wrote a mini book called that Jesus Christ was born a Jew. In it, he said that that Jesus is Jewish.

that the Jewish people, they're the the older brothers. And that he said, If I had been a Jew, And seeing the way the Catholic bulk it against the Catholic leaders in the strongest terms. He said, I would have rather been a pig than a Christian. And perhaps We can now share Jesus with these Jewish people with the hope that their hearts will turn.

Well, He did not see many Jewish people coming to the Lord. He was hoping to see some great kind of harvest. That didn't happen. That's number one. Number two.

He was old and sick and had all kinds of paranoias and believed that Jewish people were out to get him somehow. Number three, he was shown blasphemous literature, ugly literature that had been composed over the centuries by Jewish people lashing out at Jesus. He was under the misapprehension that Jews curse Christians in their prayers three times a day in the synagogue. And Whatever the reasons, there's still no excuse for it. He wrote a subsequent mini book.

that came out in 1543 called Concerning the Jews and Their Lies. And in it. He said that Jews should be gathered together in ghettos and live like gypsies. He said that rabbis should be forbidden to teach under penalty of death. He said passport travel privileges should be removed.

He said that synagogues should be set on fire. Jewish places of business or homes broken down and destroyed. Basically, it was the strategy implemented by the Nazis Luther was a genius who figured everything out.

So, November ninth and tenth, Christallmach. in Germany nineteen thirty eight It was the first real violent public group action by the Nazis against the Jews. And it was also a test to see what the larger community would do. Would they stand up in protest? They would be silent.

Sadly, they were silent. And what did the Nazis do November 9th? They set Synagogues on fire. They destroyed Jewish places of business and homes. Many were wounded, some were killed.

The next day Germans wake up. synagogues are burning in Germany, and one of the leading Lutheran bishops They said, What a great day. It happened to be the anniversary of Luther's birthday on November 10th, 1938. And they said, What a great day to see the synagogues burning on the birthday of Martin Luther. Yeah, and it's sad because there were a lot of good things that Martin Luther did.

But it's not just Martin Luther, it's not just five, six hundred years ago. You grew up in New York City, right, Mike? Yes, sir. Yeah, and my dad did as well. My dad was Jewish, and he told me, and I always tried to talk to him about Jesus later on in his life when I became a Christian.

But one of the things that he told me, he said, growing up in New York City, he said it was the Catholics, I believe, but not just the Catholics, who said, You killed Jesus. That's not really a way to win the Jewish people over to Jesus. No, but that's been the perception, the charge of DSI. You killed Jesus and because Jesus is God, you killed God. That's been a charge raised since at least the fourth century.

John Chrysostom, the great preacher of his day, and again, like Luther, Chrysostom. did a tremendous amount of good and wrote and preached many, many things and then had this Ugly anti-Semitic streak that emerged at a certain point. But Christostom raised that charge that Jews are Christ killers. It's taking certain verses out of the New Testament And then extrapolating from that that all Jews through all time are guilty of the death of Jesus.

So I I was born in New York City. Raised on Long Island. But in my circles, my friends, I didn't hear that. But it's very common. Jewish friends, as they grew up in New York and other major cities in America, many of them heard the same thing: you are Christ killers.

And this is something that in the late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds in Russia, gave rise to the pogroms. to these violent acts against Jewish people where Scores, hundreds could be killed and wounded, and whole villages just decimated. And a lot of it was fueled by you got to get to Christ killers. They killed your God, you have to kill them. And then you tie that in with other lies and conspiracies.

Theories and things like that: that the Jews every year on Cassover kidnap and torture a Jewish child, a Christian child, and then drain the blood to make matzah. And these evil Jews, we've got to get them. Th this History. In my book, Our Hands Are Stained with Blood, right? I document a lot of this.

and then tie it in with things happening in the world today and look at what scripture says, I quote from the Catholic scholar Edward Flannery. Flannery said, the pages of history that Jews have memorized Christians have torn out of their books. And that's why when many people read our hands to stained with blood, many Christians they're shocked because they had no idea that this is part of quote Christian history, but it's sad but true, it is.

Well, my dad was born in 1935, but I was born in 1981. And I grew up in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, right where I'm talking to you from. And my junior year of high school, somebody asked me, they said, they call me Zwick. They said, Zwick, are you Jewish? And I said, well, I'm half Jewish.

And for the next two years, a year and a half of high school, I was teased because I was half Jewish.

So I don't know if this anti-Semitism has really ever stopped. Oh no, it it hasn't stopped. It's just What's interesting is it's not universal in that you can go to other parts of the world and and it For example, when I'm speaking to Christians in Asia, and sharing these things. They're shocked. They've never heard of this.

Christians in Africa, it seems that those who've just been raised more reading scripture. and divorced from some of the bad parts of church history. Thank God for But they've been divorced from some of the ad parts, reading scripture, they come to very different conclusions and they're shocked. I remember, oh, it had to be late 1980s, early 1990s. Because I remember where we were living then.

There was an Iranian man in my house, an Iranian Christian, and we began talking. And he said, Anyone who hates the Jews is not a Christian, cannot be a Christian. And he was so passionate. He was from Iran. comes out of that background of Islam, comes to Jesus.

I've seen that with many Muslims around the world. When they come to Jesus, they become lovers of Israel. And yet You're right. Anti-Semitism has remained here from culture to culture. You find it in Christianity, you find it in Islam, you find it.

You find it across all demographics, and if you think about it, What Use our impoverished like Fiddler on the Roof kind of thing. filthy Jews who have no money. When Jews are rich, you control all the money in the world. When Jews just try to assimilate and fit in, you dirty Jews, you're not part of us. When Jews.

These religious Jews, you're full of pride. Who do you think you are? When Jews Don't fight back. In horrible situations where they have no way to resist the enemy, they're just called weak. When they fight back, they're called guilty of genocide.

To me, again, it underscores the demonic nature of antisemitism.

So it's almost like no matter what they do, they can't win. Exactly, exactly.

Now, you've got a book. You mentioned your book, Our Hands Are Stained with Blood, and I'm looking it up right now. It looks like, was it 1992 you wrote the book? It came out in nineteen nineteen ninety two. It stayed in print continuously, and then we put out an updated and revised edition in twenty nineteen.

And it's my most translated book out of the roughly 50 books that I've written. It's been translated into more languages than anything. And it seems to resonate. Each year that goes by, it's more needed than it was the year before. Tell us a little bit more about the book, Mike.

So I wrote the book. Out of a tremendous burden that the church would feel the pain of the Jewish people. that the church would understand the horrible things that have been done to Jewish people from the Crusades to the Inquisitions to the Writings of Luther, through Jew hatred right up until today. I lay out those Christians who've understood God's purposes for Israel. One of the most amazing parts of the book is quoting from Charles Spurgeon.

So-called Prince of Preachers, 29 years old, preaching this amazing message: how the Jewish people are going to be restored back to their land, as scripture says. There's been a minority that has seen it over the centuries. I lay that out. I go through Jewish beliefs and talk about the beautiful expressions of Judaism and the heart of a religious Jew. I go through Jewish background to the New Testament.

reminding people that Jesus was a a rabbi, not a reverend, that his Hebrew name was Yeshua, that his mother's name was Miriam, that he had disciples named Yaakov and Yochanan and Matijahu and things like that. to just try to underscore the Jewishness of the background there. And then I go through church history, world history, outlining anti-Semitism. I go through replacement theology why it's on biblical. and then God's eternal purposes for Israel.

Yeah, and it's called Our Hands Are Stained with Blood by Michael Brown. I've already got it pulled up. I think I'm going to get the book, Mike. But with what is going on right now? Everybody seems to be coming against Israel.

And even if you stand up for Israel in this country, which one time most Christians that I saw did, we can't seem to win. How do we fight back? What do we do now?

Well, obviously, it's a spiritual battle, so we have to pray that hearts and minds will be opened. We always have to remember that first and foremost, it's a spiritual battle. Second thing. Tirelessly get out the truth. We have to tirelessly combat the flood.

of lies, of misinformation, of disinformation that comes out Honestly, it's tiring. At times, you grow weary and lose hope because it looks like it's a no win battle. But whatever we can do to open one heart, one mind, We all have a circle of influence. Maybe it's the people that sit at the dinner table with us. Maybe it's the people we hang out with in our neighborhood.

Maybe it's the people on our social media sphere. Whatever it is, we all have some Bones. Let's do our best to get the truth out, get educated. Yeah. Go to my website, thelineoffire.org.

The lineofire.org. We have literally thousands of free resources, articles I've written. videos we put out. We're putting out these short videos now, a few a week, that take one minute. What about are the Jewish people still chosen?

What about genocide? Is Israel committing genocide in Gaza? Just one minute. Get the information out, get the truth out. Truth will always triumph over lies.

And Dr. Brown, we will be right back. And what can you do? to help support Israel in this country. Right back.

You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. All right, guys, we are back with Dr. Michael Brown for our last Segment, you know, when I was over the break, I was thinking about this. I heard this story about Napoleon and his army was losing a battle one day, and so he sent word to his bugler: he said, Blow the bugle for retreat. Five, ten minutes later, nothing happened.

Napoleon told the bugler again, blow the bugle to retreat. Nothing happened.

So this time Napoleon actually went up to the bugler himself and he said, Look, he said, I've told you two times to blow the bugle for retreat. Why have you not blown it? And the bugler said to Napoleon, he said, because Napoleon, you've never taught us, you've never taught me how to blow the bugle for retreat. And Napoleon said, I didn't. He said, no.

He said, then blow the bugle to charge. And they charged and they won the battle. Dr. Brown, I can tell you this. Jesus taught us a lot of things.

Jesus never taught us to retreat. And I believe that applies to our support for Israel as well. Yeah, I love that analogy too. I've never heard it, but it's a great point. Retreat.

spells Defeat. It's that simple. And what are we going to do? Bow down to this lie today and another lie tomorrow? When we cave in and capitulate to culture, to popular opinion, it's just self-preservation.

It's the opposite of what Jesus taught, which is if you save your life, you lose it. If you lose your life for my sake and the gospel, you find it.

So That's always the great reminder. In the end, truth will triumph. In the end, Jesus will come back and set up his kingdom in Jerusalem and rule and reign. And in the end, we even see from scripture, Romans 11, 26, that there's going to be a national turning. a mass turning of Jewish people to the Messiah.

as as Paul clearly lays out in his other scriptures lay And in fact, when you do Jewish evangelism, it can often be much more difficult, tedious, challenging than going to other places. and you might sow seeds for years and years and years and get one person that turns dramatically, whereas in other settings you can sow a few seeds and get dramatic results overnight. But To me, the reminder of the final outcome is always encouraging. In terms of reaching Jewish people, I'm burdened for every Jewish person today to know Jesus. The fact that there's going to be a national attorney at the end of the age We've not guaranteed the salvation of a single living Jewish person today.

At the same time, There's that knowledge. that God is going to move ultimately. Just like when we're so grieved with injustice. It's never going to go away. As long as the human race is here, it's never going to go away.

People are going to suffer terrible injustices, but But We do what we can to fight against injustice because it's the right thing to do and God cares for every individual. And when Mother Teresa was once asked, How do you deal with the fact? that you're not going to help the vast majority of people. Those that you're helping, these terribly impoverished people, just to die a death with dignity and love around them. That's that's just Yeah.

How did you deal with that reality? And her answer was. Subtraction. It's one less.

So if we can help One more person. Understand then there's one less person. On the wrong side, and you never know. where your influence will go. You never know if you touch one person that 20 years from now is touching millions of people.

Just like the teachers that first poured into Charlie Kirk. were the first people that helped disciple him as a as a teenage believer. They had no idea the influence we were going to have. We influence who we can. We make the impact that we can.

We don't measure it to anything else. We don't focus on what the devil's doing, what society is doing, what the world is doing. We focus on God. What are you saying? What's true?

And I'm going to stand for truth regardless of cost or consequence. If we do that, we cannot be defeated. Absolutely. And there was a young boy who was throwing, there were thousands and thousands of starfish on the sea. And one at a time, he was throwing the starfish back into the sea and he was helping them to live and to survive.

And this older man came up to the young boy and he said, What are you doing? He said, There is no way you're going to be able to save all of these starfish. And the young boy took up a starfish in his hand and he threw it into the ocean. And he said, I made a difference to that one.

Well, the truth is, is that not every single person has turned against Israel, Dr. Brown. There are still some out there who are standing for the truth of Israel. And I know you know Dinesh D'Souza. I'm sure you've talked to him.

I know you've talked to Dr. I'm sorry, Jonathan Kahn. And so there are people who are standing up. And I'm looking at your Facebook page as well. You've got over 580,000 likes.

I'm looking on the line of fire on YouTube and you've got over 198,000 subscribers. And every single day, it's like you're just. Chipping away, chipping away at anti-Semitism. Have you seen some progress that you've made where maybe some people who were who did believe in replacement theology and they listened to you? How maybe they're coming to the other side?

Yeah, and in fact, I've heard it consistently. from readers of our hands were stained with blood over the years. I've met Passionate pro-Israel Christians. And again, it doesn't mean we support everything Israel does, and it certainly doesn't mean we're anti-Palestinian. It just means we recognize God brought the Jewish people back to the land that it's Satan who wants to wipe them out and destroy them.

And therefore, we're standing with the Jewish people. I have over the years run into people that I only knew As pro-Israel Christians. strongly supporting and loving the Jewish people, and found out they were on the other side. Astrus were on the other side and read our hands are stained with blood, and it opened their hearts and minds.

So, by God's grace, we do see this, and for sure. Even though there's a rising tide of of anti-Israel sentiment and I understand why with the constant images from and the constant accusations that Israel is guilty of genocide But look. The most powerful man on the planet, Donald Trump. is standing strongly with Israel. American political leadership right now, by and large, the majority standing solidly with Israel, and still evangelicals worldwide or at least nationally, Charismatic Pentecostals worldwide, largely standing with Israel.

Well, we really have to work, especially with the younger generation, that has been more influenced by social media many times than the Bible. It it's true of the older gener generation as well, but the younger generation that's grown up with this They're major quote influences on TikTok and other places, just putting out a day and night anti-Semitic narrative, and it's very compelling. And because of that, Without biblical grounding, there's a lot of ignorance.

So we keep sowing seeds and for sure. Um It depends where I post. We've got almost one million followers on the various uh social media platforms depends on where I post and how long people have been following me. The longer they're following me, the better fruit we have. But we'll post at a new place and oh boy, the lies, the attacks, they come out of the the woodwork.

And the craziest thing, Mike, you know, with Jewish background, so me Jewish on both sides, as a Jewish believer in Jesus, That makes me persona non grata among most Jewish people. That's the ultimate negative. I've been told that I'm willingly doing what my forefathers done. And I'm the ultimate apostate and betrayer. I've had in Israel people chanting: Hitler wanted our bodies, you want.

So I can be rejected there and yet I've seen people, excuse me, Christians, professing Christians, of being a secret agent from Osad and funded by the Israeli government. If only we could use the money for good purposes. But that's what's out there. You get it from both sides. Yeah, and like you said before, we keep fighting.

And one of the good signs that I've seen is that there are people who are pro-Israel. There are people that I know who go to these messianic congregations and they're supporting Israel. And I know a woman who's actually wanting to bring the Jewish, help to bring the Jewish people back to Israel. One of the problems that I've seen is something called dual covenant theology.

So I don't want to go too far and believe in that. Yes, so that's the other extreme. that out of love and sympathy for Israel, out of recognition of the horrors of anti-Semitism in church history, that you say, well, there are two covenants. God has the Sinai covenant with Israel, and if Jewish people are faithful to keep the law and trust in God, then they don't need Jesus to be saved, and Christians should not proselytize That is also a terrible danger because the very worst thing you could do for Jewish people is withhold the gospel from them.

So that's. You you have replacement theology swings one way. In order to correct it, you swing the other or with dual covenant theology, which I wholeheartedly reject. Yeah, and I've heard you and Sid Roth from It's Supernatural discussing that as well. In the last few minutes that we have, if people want to watch you or follow you, I know you were doing the radio for a while.

I heard you're back on the radio. I've told them about the line of fire. Subscribe to that channel on YouTube. They can follow you on Facebook, but you have a daily show, is that right?

Well, we were on Live Talk Radio for sixteen years. We were on Truth the entire time. Stu Junior got us on and we were on.

So we're just doing different podcasts and things online.

So we're not on radio. Otherwise, we'd be right there on Truth every day along with you. But if the easiest way For people to stay in touch with us. They go to the website, thelineoffire.org. The lineofire.org and just click subscribe.

Subscribe. They'll be hooked up for our free monthly newsletter frontline, which is full of inspiration, edification, even Hebrew word study, fun things like that. And then every week, we'll say, hey, here are the latest articles we put out. the latest videos we put out. We always have a strong Jewish emphasis every single week.

We do a thoroughly Jewish Thursday broadcast.

So, they'll be notified of everything we're doing. You won't miss an article or a broadcast, and everything is free. It's our way of sewing into you so that you can stand strong on the front lines. Absolutely. And they can pick up your book, Our Hands Are Stained With Blood.

And that is very relevant today, right? Oh, absolutely. You get it in physical book or ebook or audio book, but it's essential reading. I wish I could press a button and get into the hands of every believer in America. Yeah, because there was a time where if you were an evangelical Christian, of course you supported Israel.

But now there are a lot of Christians who are against Israel. And at some point, it's going to come up in a conversation that you have. And so the question is: are you going to know how to answer these objections?

So I would encourage you guys to pick up the book, Our Hands Are Stained with Blood by Dr. Michael Brown. Make sure to go to the website, askdrbrown.org. And Dr. Brown, I want to thank you again for coming on Truth Talk Live.

Oh, thanks for your great questions. It's been a dry mike. Definitely, and I'll be on tomorrow if not for God with Mike Zwick. At noon, guys, please pick up the book, Our Hands Are Stained with Blood by Dr. Michael Brown.

It will help you. I'm not sure.