Transformed People Transform People

Welcome to Truth Talk Live. All right, let's talk the truth now. I can't hide it.

Okay. A daily program powered by the Truth Network. This is kind of a great thing, and I'll tell you what. Where pop culture, current events, and theology all come together. Speak your mind.

And now, here's today's Truth Talk Live host. The window is open for the gospel of Jesus Christ. in Uganda, in a man who's walking right through it, marching through it, Is with me in the studio right now. What you're going to hear in this hour is going to shock you, gonna encourage you, gonna bless you. Mark Guthrie, it's always a blessing.

Put that right on your chin and tell us. How encouraged you are to be in the Truth Talk Live studios, man. You're back in America, stateside. What a privilege. What a privilege.

Thank you so much for having me. I hope this time is encouraging and really healing for people. I know a lot of people that listen are hurting, are going through a lot of stuff. And just to share, hey, God's in the mess, and he cares, and I get to see it every day. A privilege after being in Uganda these last 11 years.

So it's a privilege to be back for a few weeks and to be here at Truth Talk Live.

So, what you're going to hear this hour, you're going to hear this man's testimony. Why would God call an educator in America where we desperately need Christian educators all the way 20,000 miles away? What's happening over there? The fastest-growing population in the world of young people is right what he is in the middle of. Where did he, how did he come to know the Lord?

Why this call? How does this impact you?

Some pretty not so okay things happening that he's been exposed to: rape, suicide, other things that you're going to hear about. These kids are unprotected. We're going to get into that. And how God may be calling you out of your comfort zone to do something radical for the kingdom while we still have time. Because everyone listening to my voice right now is going to die.

Unless the king returns before, which we're praying and hoping and hastening and looking forward to.

So, Mark Guthrie, let's go back and just ask you that hard question. You're an educator all these years in America. Christian education was your heart, your passion, your education, your background, your pedigree, your DNA. You are now in Uganda. Why would you even do that, sir?

What are you thinking? Good question. You know, when you talk about your life, you know, a psalm says, part of wisdom is numbering your days and to ensure your effectiveness for life. And so in 2010, I was running a school in Greensboro, Culbook Academy, and we got called to adopt. We adopted two young men from Uganda, Pius Serenkuma and Brian Chianji, their brothers, five and three at the time.

And that opened the door. That started our journey. We had already done some things with missions. I had run a school in Lyon, France for a while, but that really opened the door to Africa and to Uganda. Again, two places I never thought I would be: Europe and Africa.

Never had any desire, never had any, you know, it was not a dream. It was a calling. And so a few years after we adopted, we found out that there was an organization that was desperately in need of a school. And we said, hey, we have too much. How do we help?

And through that, it ended up them saying, hey, come over and just. Advise and I did that. My board said, just don't take a job. And ended up, I took a job.

So in 2014, moved over to Uganda and have been there on and off. I go back and forth now quite a bit because our kids are here being trained, our Ugandan sons. But ever since. The last few times we've met, the theme. Has been this big open window.

Talk about that right now. Yeah, so the window right now is just, I would say the harvest is exploding, and our laborers are very, very, very few. Because we right now in Uganda have a president that's been president for 40 years, and his wife is the Minister of Education. She is a strong believer, and she has appointed a permanent secretary in education that is a fabulous, strong believer that has been part of what we started a number of years ago, which is called the Renew Uganda Initiative. And the idea behind that is this is the youngest country in the world.

There are 24 million kids under 15, three-fourths of the population under 24.

So it's a country of unprotected kids that are a generation that's growing up. And so we're like, what do we need to do to reach this generation? By 2050, Uganda, which is the size of Oregon, will have 100 million people in it. Oregon has four. Million.

And so this is going to impact East Africa. It's going to impact Africa. It impacts the world. And so Renew Uganda Initiative said, Hey, most of these kids will have to have some kind of education. What if we could influence that for the glory of God, for best practices, for those kinds of things?

That's our system. How do we get to that? What if we can protect these kids, protect them through a means of education? And so thus, the Renew Uganda Initiative really started several years ago and it has just exploded.

So when we say we have a window, We right now have access to about 30,000 schools in Uganda. 24 million, like I said, kids, 500,000 educators, 30,000 heads, and it is wide open.

So we get to go in as a team. We start with the gospel every time because our motto. Uh I have a shirt for you, by the way. Our motto is transform people, transform people.

So our belief is that the gospel comes through us on the way to somebody else.

So what we do, our team, really, it's a self, I won't say purifying, God does it, but a self-sanctifying process and the idea that God starts with us. And so we have to be broken. Godly sorrow brings repentance and then it goes to somebody else. And so that's where we start with our team. Then we move on to the heads of school, the administrators, and the teachers of these 30,000 institutions.

And the demographic are insane of the age.

So you've got 24 million kids. You've got a country by 2050 that'll have 100 million. And what is the age of those people? To give our listeners some perspective, friends, this will rock your world hearing these numbers.

So it is a country of kids. Really, the average age of death is 53. And so, you know, I'm past that.

So thank the Lord for that. But, you know, we still struggle mightily with malaria. With HIV. HIV started there with, again, bacterial infections, just things that can be treated but are not because people just don't have access. And so the demographics there, again, when you think it's a country of kids, you got to think when it gets to be 100 million, there will be probably around 70 million of them will be under 24.

Wow. And so we work with 15-year-olds that have three children. And so it's already, it's just children having children, having children having children. When you say unprotected, there's a real mistake. Darkness to that.

You got little girls right after passing through their transition into womanhood, maybe 14 years old, and the teacher. is now c coming onto them and you know Doing some pretty unfortunate things, unsavory things. You've talked about on the show before. Yeah, so God and Satan know that there's a battle for the souls, and it's a generational battle. Yeah.

Right? We get caught up in Trump versus Harris versus Biden versus whatever. And God and Satan see a longevity battle that's going on for the souls of the next generation. And so it is a spiritual warfare as to which direction these kids are going to go. There's two lions mentioned in the Bible, right?

The lion of Judah, Aslan, as C.S. Lewis calls them in the Chronicles of Narnia. And he brings life, even though it doesn't feel like it sometimes. There's people out there listening right now that are like, yeah, we're following. And he brings life, but sometimes it's through mess.

But there's another lion that Peter knew well, and he talks about in 1 Peter, and it is the lion that is out to seek to devour and destroy us. And he can appear as an angel of light. And so we realize that there are two lions going after these kids. And the school that I got to start in 2014. Again, our mascot was a lion because we said if we give them enough time with the real lion, they're going to recognize when the fake lion whispers to them, just like he did to Eve, did God really say?

He's holding out on you. Are you kidding me? And so, again, our goal is to really bring in the real lion into the lives of the heads of school, the administrators, and the teachers, so their lives can be transformed. And then, like Peter and John, they can't help but speak what they have seen and heard. Wow.

And I want you to hear this: it's very important: identity. Yeah. You're telling these young ladies, what do you tell them? You're in this big room of thousands of young people, thousands of young women. Who have been Abused, misused, all kinds of horrible stuff, even by adults who are supposed to protect them.

But you say things to them in Jesus' name to offer the dignity that God offers in the gospel. Yeah, God does see. They are abused. They are abused by family members. When a young lady reaches puberty or even starts to go to puberty, they're targets even within their family.

Okay, we're going to talk about that.

Some awful things there, but some really good news, some good hope. Amen. How you could be a part of that. And what is Independence Day like in Uganda? A perspective maybe you've never heard before.

I know, haven't. I haven't. We'll hear Mark's testimony, how he came to know Christ, and we'll have more Truth Thalk Live right after this. Don't touch that dial. I'm Stu Uverson coming back at you in just a second.

You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. A great window for the gospel has opened.

Some real tough stuff that my friend Mark Guthrie is going to share with us. I don't even like to hear this, but it's real. And I have four daughters, and I think about. If they were objectified like that and treated like that, and their teachers were doing that to them, Mark Guthrie, you see it, it's real. We're going to get back into this.

First, I want to say thank you to our friends. It's fine taste. Thank you, LeBlue, Ultra Pure Bottle of Water, Mighty Musk, and I, for this new beverage that is. Basically, who's the health freak in your family? Come on, who is it?

Probably one of my sons.

Okay, you got to.

Okay, so I'm going to hand this to you. Yeah. And I mean, you care about your health much? I don't want to pay you. I'd like to be around as long as God wants me around.

Because the average age, you just told me the death rate in Uganda I've outlived 53 years ago. 53, you're on borrowed time.

So, anyway, so this is just reading right off the bottle. This is a new beverage. That has uh because there's an epidemic uh There's tens of millions of diabetics and pre-diabetics all across America. It's crazy. And the.

There are more diabetics in America than there are citizens of Uganda.

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So, Jerry, Judy, Candy, the whole team at Vine Tastic, the Blue Old Tree Bottle Water, they want our listeners to be healthy. They want our missionaries, our pastors to live long, fruitful lives for Jesus, spreading the gospel.

So thank you, Vintastic.com, promo code Truth, for your longtime partnership. With the Truth Network, LeBlue Ultra Pure Bottle Water, great friends and partners of this show and underwriting partners.

So, thank you. And I wanted to share that with you. I may need one of these to get through the show, Mark Guthrie. Back to Uganda and this amazing window for the gospel. You were talking about some rough stuff before that break.

Just, you know, the girl hits puberty in Uganda.

So, moms and dads, sons and daughters, grandparents, just listen carefully. This is the real Plight of these young people that you can pray for, that you can support, that you can reach through Mark. If you can't go yourself, talk about it real quick. Yes, so I don't like to talk about it either. I have a daughter and I have a whole bunch of what I call daughters there.

But when you have unprotected children, it's a recipe for disaster, really. And I tell everybody they're not unprotected. God sees them. And so, but the girls, especially, their targets. I told you, they're kids having kids.

And so even their teachers, even their heads of school, they will date. Even people, they'll write notes to them. They'll love notes or whatever. They'll date, I love you, whatever. And I want you to have my children.

And these girls are 12, 13, 14 years old. And so, um, You told me about one girl that that you found out later. that her pro her professor d discovered that she had, you know Transitioned into womanhood, and he was sending her letters. And she went to the headmaster, which is the thing you should do to the headmaster. But then she got beat up.

Yeah, she got beaten for that because, again, they protect each other. The police often are corrupt, and so they can be bought. And so, but you got her to another school, thank the Lord. You got her to another school, but just recently, even this time, about you know, I just got back from Uganda, and probably about three or four weeks ago, there was a young lady that got that got raped by her pastor. She's very vulnerable, and she went to her pastor because she needed help, and he took advantage of her.

And she became pregnant, and they came to me to see if I knew an organization that worked with these kind of people. And I said, Let me do some research before I could get back to her. She had committed suicide, and so, and obviously, her and her baby. And so, what we do, again, part of the Renew Uganda initiative, we get the opportunity to work with 30,000 schools. And one of the things we want to do is protect the young ladies.

So, when you go to the, I'm not with the Amazma school anymore. We left in 2019, but it's still an excellent, excellent school there that we started. Um When you go there, again, one of the key points you'll see that we put in is girls know their value. And so when I'm speaking, whenever I get to talk to the students or whatever, we always say, hey, and ladies, you are, and they always scream back, priceless. Because they are pressured, even by the people on the bodas, the little motorcycles, that's how we get around, right?

On little, on the backs of bodas. They get pressured to go from A to B. They have to sell their body. It's about 30 cents. And so you can just imagine, again, and then they get pregnant and the guy runs away.

And so we have just, it's, again, a country. After the epidemic, the pandemic, in some areas, over 50% of the girls couldn't go back to school because they're not allowed to go back if they're pregnant. Kids raising kids. Kids raising kids. And the shame and all of that.

And then when they're not in school, they're in the village and it just propagates itself. And so, again, with the Renew Uganda Initiative, what we try to do is, through the schools, protect them. And you can't learn in fear. You know, if these girls are coming to school and they're fearing, I mean, I could just, I don't even want to go into it because this is radio, but they're fearing what could happen to them. They're fearing what they're going to be exposed to or whatever.

How are they supposed to learn? How are they supposed to be educated? And so we're, again, part of our passion is through their schools. For one, they come to know who Christ is, but through that, the gospel brings value. Right?

It raises people up. And so it changes everything. And so our firm belief is we bring the gospel first, but then we also bring policies and procedures. What works? How do you protect the young ladies so that they can stay in the school all the way through graduation, just like the young men do?

That's something, so much of that going on. But what a powerful thing that they would invite you, a man of God, Christian educator, to come in. And they've said, here's 30,000 of all of our schools in Uganda. And they're just opening the door for you to come in. And these are Muslim schools, Catholic schools, parochial schools, Anglican schools, Baptists, all kinds of schools.

It doesn't matter. And they're saying, come in and have your way and preach the gospel and teach men, young men, to be protectors of young women. Teach young women that they are, they have dignity in Jesus Christ. Teach the gospel. Mark, what's that like?

That's got to be overwhelming. Overwhelming. And when people ask, and if somebody's listening, say, what can I do? Help that the harvest is really, I mean, I can't express it enough. It's wide open, right?

Now, and we don't know when it's going to close. And so, this window of being able to go to all of these schools and start with the gospel, start because you care where these people are going to spend eternity. And again, Luke 6:40 says, Eventually, the student becomes like their teacher. Right? And the teachers become like their head of school.

And so, what we believe is we're going to trust the Bible and say if those heads of school are transformed, truly, and the teachers are transformed after that, and then it extends to these 24 million kids, everything changes. There's a generation that's either going to be lost. Or it's going to be transformed. And one of the things Renew Uganda does also, it brings together the Christian education world. And that's never been done.

And so it's great people doing great things in isolation and vacuums. And so that's one thing that we really have been focusing on as well.

So besides the government, which is third in the list of God-ordained institutions, you have the church and then you have the family created first, you know, Adam and Eve. Where's the family? Where are the moms and dads? Come on, Mark. Help me out here.

Where is the church with all this going on? And how can we support that with what you're doing with the Renew Uganda initiative? Yeah, thank you.

So the dads are just not there. And so very rarely do we have a nuclear family with a mom, dad, and a child. And so they are when the when usually when the lady gets pregnant, expecting the guy leaves, and the women are left to raise five, six, seven children, the average is between five to seven. And so, and again, think about it without any help.

So, even some of the churches there, which are.

Some of them are pretty solid. They've almost given up on working with the males. They're going after, and they have classes for the females to learn how to type or how to sew or how to dig. They call farming digging there, whatever. And that's wonderful.

But there's, again, the young men and the older men, there's very little, very little spiritual excitement, spiritual connection there. And so what people are seeing is what God is working is a lot of through the women and through the children because the men just are not there. And so the church is trying to encourage them too to take some ownership. Yeah. And that's God's body.

On this planet.

Well, and we're not the church, and so we have to work with the church. And so we do work with a number of churches there because they've been ordained by God for the edification and evangelization of the saints. And so, again, our job is we go into the schools and work, and then we want to connect to those that respond to the gospel with a church. And so that's what we want to do. We'll get to that.

We'll pick back up on that. We'll get into your testimony. And we'll talk about just a few weeks ago, you lay dead outside of a building on the outside. They thought they were taking you to the morgue and God did something. And so we'll get personal with Mark after this.

This shocked me. You laid this on me this morning. When we come back on Truth Talk Live, this will be made a podcast. Be sure you subscribe to the Truth Podcast Network. We'll be right back.

After this, hang on. Uh You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Fireworks are going off in the studio during the breaks.

Sometimes we have done this in the past week. We've recorded the breaks because it's intense. Mark Guthrie's on fire for God, and he's setting Uganda on fire. He loves that country. He never thought he'd be in Uganda.

I want to get into your testimony, Mark, but what happened to you recently is emblematic of what happens to a lot of our pastors, a lot of our leaders. You know, you know, Jack Graham got up in his pulpit, pastor of a powerful church, mighty man of God, friend of mine, got up in his pulpit in front of thousands of people and just literally had to ask an associate to come up and says, I can't finish. Had a kind of like a mental breakdown. Right there. And wrote a whole book about it to encourage pastors, get a break, get some help, get some prayer partners.

So, what we want to do for you and all of our amazing missionaries, church planners, leaders, whoever, when you're home, stateside, we call it in America from Uganda, we want to love you. We want to encourage you. You had a bunch of guys around you today praying for you, giving you books. You know, you came by our men's group called Wednesday in the Word at Dario. But, Pastor, brother Mark Guthrie.

We need to encourage you. You were laying there thinking, I'm going to heaven. This was just. days ago, tell everyone what happened. Yeah, well, I was not planning to die, but other people were planning for me too.

So the enemy does not rest. Let me make that clear. The bad line doesn't rest. I tell you, it was the clearest spiritual warfare, though, I think I've ever experienced. It's very obvious there that you're in spiritual warfare.

But going through a lot of attacks, there was a hostile takeover of the school where I was staying in a village. And so I, day and night, working, trying to work through that while carrying on the Renew Uganda initiative, which means you're traveling all around the country, trying to build up educators, trying all this stuff. And so I had no immune system. It was just gone. And so a number of things entered, a number of infections.

You know, I was tested positive for malaria and all of that. And it got to where I could hardly, I just couldn't move. I couldn't get out of bed or whatever. And so, again, unbeknownst to me, there was a little bit of a gathering outside going to help with the body. And I'm glad they didn't tell me that because, like I said, I wasn't planning to see the Lord.

The Undertaker, the last guy to let you down, was about to let you down. That's exactly right. And that wouldn't be so bad. To live as Christ than to die as gay. This interview wouldn't have happened.

This interview would not have happened. And you can even tell, most of you don't know me, but I'm horse still. My body is tired. And so you're right. Coming back, being a missionary, it's no harder than whatever the people that are listening to this, they're all working hard and stuff like that.

But when I came back, it was almost like I had to drag myself through the Greensboro airport when we finally got here, when I finally got here. And it was just brutal. I mean, but I knew it was spiritual warfare. I knew we weren't wrestling against flesh and blood. Even though you're looking at people that are actively working against the gospel, those people need Christ.

Those people are hurting as well. And so, but it did break down my system to the point where I was pretty sick. I mean, people hear these miracle stories. They hear about 30,000 schools, middle schools, upper schools, Muslim schools, universities, law schools that have said, come on in and preach the gospel to us. They hear about this great vision you have, they hear about the opportunity.

Opportunity to reach by 2050 100 million people. But they got to think about all that the fire, the incoming mortars that are hitting you, but from the enemy. And then we got to think about how do we pray for you? Like, how do we love on Mark Guthrie? How do we encourage you and support you?

And, like Hebrews says, hold up those hands that are weak. Yeah, again, when you're fighting a generational battle, you can expect a very, very heart attack because Satan wants those kids. There's a lot of them, and yet God has ordained them for himself to be who he's created them to be. And that's our passion. We want to see these kids living a life worthy of the gospel to be, you know, that truly can be transformed.

We've seen it even through the Omasma school, again, with the bouzika Bukaya. They're changing because the kids, we now have graduates and they've gone out and they serve and they serve, and people can't figure it out. And because, again, transform people, transform people. The rocks can cry out, but God usually uses people that are broken. And it says his eyes are looking to and fro, looking for those people that are fully engaged with him.

And so that's what we're hoping for as a generation of educators. Again, there's 500,000 educators, 30,000 heads. In Uganda. In just Uganda, 24 million, which we haven't talked about. Also drifting into South Sudan.

They just finished a civil war. There's requests coming to Renew Uganda Initiative. Can you help us put up a Christian school right in the middle of this place? Wow. President Trump has been working to broker a peace agreement between the DRC, the Congo, and Rwanda, right?

And so we have refugee camps that are just in very bad shape. And Renew Uganda Initiative has been asked to come in and would you help put a school here, a Christian school? What a strategic request, right? But as you said, it's overwhelming. I mean, it's like it's exploding.

You pray for rain.

Well, some of you are praying too much, I think, because the rain is pouring down. The spirit, sub-Saharan Africa, is on fire right now. Literally, God is doing an incredible movement there, and the laborers are few. Muslims are coming to Christ. Talk to our listeners about that.

So many of us are comfortable.

So many listeners, I can hear them asking this. I can hear this sound kind of pulsating in my head. What can we do? What can we do? Well, what can they do right now?

Give me some. Give me some real action points. There's hard. Harvest is out there. The fire is burning, and the need is great.

And the. Most Untrained Christian in America could be the brightest, most erudite Christian teaching people over there because we have so much. Yeah, this country has been gifted.

So people say this, but there is spiritual warfare. We fight witch doctors. There's a lot of curses. There's a lot of demonic activity. It's a dark place.

And especially where we are. Please pray. People, I'm sometimes the worst at this, Stu. Oh, my goodness. You call the doctor or you call your friends or you need advice or you whatever.

And then you think, you know what I ought to do? Praying wouldn't be bad either. Maybe talk to the one, the great physician. Maybe talk to the one who put us together. The one that is wisdom, that is love, right?

So prayer is big. Oh, my goodness. Even everyone that's listening right now would just say, hey, after this show, take a moment. I'm going to pray for Mark Guthrie for Renew You God. Drop to your knees.

You could do nothing better. Drop to your knees. That's where we're going to win this war. Drop to your knees for millions of kids to come to know Jesus Christ. And so that's a big part.

If you're in education. Connect. I mean, we are always looking for content, mission, vision, statements, working through curriculum, working through stuff. And it takes the body of Christ. It takes John 17, where people stop worrying about, well, what about my ministry or whatever?

And we start worrying about if we don't come together, there's a generation that we're going to lose. And so, Renew Uganda, we're not competing with anybody. There's a reason we're not building a school. Everybody asks for Renew Academy in Uganda or Renew University and be a teacher's college, which is tempting. It's tempting.

But as soon as we do that, we become 30,001. For the schools, right? And we become a competitor versus we come underneath and we influence what's already there for Jesus Christ and the gospel. And so our role, when you please, please invest because folks can support you. We're not looking for a $10 million.

If you want to give, that would be wonderful. If you want to give toward a radio program we talked about here, he's looking for support for that. If you want to say, I want to be a monthly partner to help get that, because then we can take this message and spread it. Instead of you just kind of blowing in, blowing up, blowing out, and they don't hear from you until you come home in six months, we could help develop a truth podcast for you for Renew Uganda for a grand a month. Maybe someone would sponsor that.

$12,000 for the year. Just to be able to get word out. And we just, it's firepower to get more people to listen to your message. And it also keeps you off the road so much. You could be with your family so you can have this digital message going out over platforms that could inform people of what they can do.

And the people back in Uganda could take some ownership too. Yeah, that. That's very true. When I do come back to the States, it is, yes, I have family here, and I go. And one of the reasons, by the way, let me say something about that.

So I have two Ugandan sons, and they're here being trained. And so obviously, they're my first priority over the ministry. But when I look at them, you say, why go back to Uganda? They get a home. They get education.

They eat every day. You know, they have a family. Yeah. They love I I don't know what the exact percentage is in Uganda, but the vast majority of children in Uganda get none of that. They might get a meal.

They might get two. It's always pocho and beans. You know, it's like a grit that's that's just the carb and beans every meal. And I just think, I can do more. I can do more.

But you're right.

So you spend 24-7 on the field and then you come back and you've got to get, okay, you've got to raise your support. You've got to keep, you know, you have to keep going around to city to city, to church, to church, to church. And then you go back. And again, like you said, the immune system just gets broken down after a while because there's no rest from that.

So we need to pray for you, but also support you financially. And then there's people that may be able to go. Yeah, come. It's a place. Again, when we work with that many schools, there's like a place for everything.

And those schools are desperate for everything. They're desperate for medical help. They're desperate even like financial accountability, sustainability. I'm not a businessman. I understand schools, but they can go so much farther.

So. Go over there and teach them Dave Ramsey stuff.

So you go over there and teach them financial accounting, whatever you're good at here. You go share it with someone because there's no savings. People don't save for tomorrow. And so that's big. Obviously, education.

Come over and work with us or work. Even if you say, I can't come over, how can I partner? I try to build a team here that I can text or call and say, we are looking at this. I'm in the middle of this. What do you think?

Could you send samples? Could you do this? You know, that we can use over in East Africa. Just those kind of things. And yeah, we've got to increase our budget.

Like I said, we're being requested to go into South Sudan, into the DRC refugee camps. We don't need millions. We're not building schools. What we want to do is build people that transform the area.

So train the trainers.

So we send a team that goes there and invests and pours out and works on biblical integration, spiritual foundation, more Socratic teaching, viewing kids as image bearers of God, sustainability for the school, right? We have like nine parts of the module. That we want to take, and we really work with sub-regions and stuff like that. But we have to get there. And so, again, we take every penny and we invest it in people instead of investing in buildings.

There's already buildings built. Let's go and see God transform what's already there. And we're talking about doing Christian radio there, too, which I love that idea. You already have a partner waiting. I know.

So, he's really been pushing me on that. I am. I tell you, it's so encouraging. You know, it's interesting you mentioned that the poorest among us here in the States would be the wealthiest among them. And that's true in a lot of ways.

You know, you think, well, I'm just a humble Sunday school teacher. Let me tell you something, ma'am, sir. What you've learned from the word, and when you think you just have a paltry understanding of the word, you would be in a majority, you would be Charles Spurgeon over there. I mean, they would love that. You go over and teach all these kids.

They're hungry for it and they need more and more godly people pouring into them. But I like what you said, equipping them. To do this work, these Africans, they're not looking for a handout. They're looking for someone that'll believe in them and resource them, build them up so they can be transformation agents. You're just going to pop in and parachute in and leave a couple weeks later, but you could leave them with a certain amount of skills and kingdom strategic.

You can almost like weaponize them for the glory of God, right, Mark? Very much so. And again, that's why our goal is to train trainers. Everybody wants to come and play with the kids, and there's nothing wrong with that, but they view Americans as very fun, we're engaging, you bring food with you, you throw out candy, whatever, but then you leave. And then they see their Ugandan teachers or their sponsors negatively almost.

And so investing in those people and them being transformed is what we do. And that's sustainable. We'll come back. What do Bob Jones University, Ohio State, Greensboro, North Carolina, and Uganda have to do with each other? You'll find out as we probe deeper into this man.

Remarkable testimony. You won't want to miss this next segment on Truth Talk Live. I'm Stu Everson. Coming back right after this. Hang on.

Truth Talk Live. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Friends, I'm telling you, like the old country preacher said, if you don't get fired up about this, this doesn't light your fire, you got wet wood. I mean, imagine millions of people inviting you to come share the gospel with them, to come love on them, just to give them encouragement, to show them dignity, to put your arms around them in Jesus' name, to feed them, clothe them, and then teach them to grow in Christ and to be world changers. I really believe Mark Guthrie, and we just had coffee with a pastor who's doing amazing ministry.

In Africa, doing a lot of wells and doing a lot of those things. And of course, Brad Phillips Persecution Project Foundation. I'm on their board and they're a great ministry. But I really believe that there is a fire in Africa that is starting to spread to America. I mean, you come back and you just fire all of us up, brother, coming on the show.

Thank you for coming on the show today. For those who just joined, Mark Guthrie is with the Renew Uganda Initiative, and he's basically had the entire government just lay down the red carpet and invite you in. To the 30,000 schools. Lower schools, middle schools, upper schools, religious schools, Muslim schools, and say, Come in and share the gospel. We want what you have because they've seen the success you've had at other places, right?

From going all the way back to Caldwell Academy in Greensboro.

Now they've seen the Amazimee school that you started, and now they want more of that. Why, Mark? Why, Mark Guthrie? Because of the spirit of the living God. There's no doubt that's why it gives favor.

And so they like the model. The model is a hands-on. It's a discipleship, life-on-life model. It is a take, it's a protective model. It's a Socratic model.

And so it's one that the students own their own education. They're very engaged. And so the ministry, the NCDC, the National Curriculum Development Center, UNEB, which is the testing center, they bought into it. They bought into the model and said, how do we get this and how do we spread this? And thus, the beginning of the Renew Uganda initiative.

Wow. But Mark Guthrie wasn't always a high-level educator. Yeah. The keys to the entire nation of Uganda, which will have 100 million citizens, by the way. By 2050, 80, 90% of them will be under the age of 40.

Remarkable. Mark Guthrie was a Bob Jones brat. You were there, Christian family, Christian education, all your life. Bob Jones Elementary, Bob Jones Nursery, Barge Hospital, Bob Jones Academy, Bob Jones University for college. Talk about that and just kind of your journey to know Christ through the godly input of parents and teachers and that, and then all the way up through education to where you are today.

Give our listeners a little background. Who is Mark Guthrie? Wow. I don't know if you want to really know that. That's a long story.

But really, yeah, thankful for a godly heritage, right? When you have parents that love Christ.

So knew about Christ from my earliest moments. Yeah, born on the campus of Bogner's before Barge Hospital was there. And then raised there for 22 years, went to then the Ohio State University and mathematics masters, and then got my specialist in educational administration and supervision. And so, you know, I think I've always been passionate about education, always since my freshman year of college, at least. And so for me, this has been a that part's not surprising to me.

What's surprising to me is, hey, God calling you to France, and then ultimately he calling you long term to Uganda to do this. And so what does it take to do that? Let me just say, even me. That's what it takes. It doesn't take anything more than that.

Because, you know, here I am. Send me. I love it. Our family willing to step over there and go, Hey, you adopt two kids and then you take them back. What's that going to do to them?

You know, we had to process all of that, but uh, but it's a willingness. But, God, I would say this too: God doesn't call you where He doesn't prepare you. Yeah, and so I do have people that call and say, Hey, we want to come over and do this and this and this, and they and they haven't finished college yet or whatever. We can use them for certain things, but we want people that are great at what they do because those kids deserve that. And those teachers and administrators need that.

And so, and so that's a challenge to me to continue my education. Everybody, you know, I identify my definition of a good teacher is a great learner who has the ability to inspire others to join him or her in their journey of learning. That's a great teacher, right? And so, you're constantly learning, you never arrive, and you have the ability to join me, come join me. Every year I teach, I have smarter kids than I in the class, they just aren't as wise yet because they haven't been around, but they're going to shoot past me.

And you're poor.

So, I want to give them the tools to pass me right off. I love that. How many teachers? See you for who you can be. And Jesus really saw that.

Jesus saw these disciples. These were rough, haggard fishermen, profane, struggling. You know, whimping out on stuff, but he saw them for the world changers that they would become, taking the gospel out to the ends of the earth. Mark Guthrie, you stood in front of our New Canaan men, New Canaan Society, at the lodge over here in Winston City. It's a privilege.

And you spoke, you shared your story at our Christian breakfast. And I mean there were some tears in your eyes and then suddenly in our eyes. And I really connected with your message, growing up. As a son of the pioneer in a Christian home. around it, but it wasn't always in me.

Amen. That triggered the All those charges of gospel dynamite in you that one day you realized it was. about his work for you As opposed to all your efforts in performance treadmill and identity. Of doing for him. Tell us what.

That's really personal and hard for me because it took a lot of years. I'm a performer. And so I, no matter what I preached with the gospel, I believe the gospel for Stu Epperson. I don't really believe it sometimes for Mark Guthrie. And so I still feel like somehow I earned Christ's approval.

I always pictured God as this eye in the sky that was disappointed and he wanted to kill me, but Jesus would step in front. I died for Mark too. And God would be like, roll his eyes and say, oh, I guess I can't do that. And it took me probably till 45 years old, I would say.

Something had happened. I can't go into that really, but something happened where I recognize, I mean, it was a radical change of who God was and that God loved me and He liked me. And he is here. You know what? There's no condemnation.

No condemnation. Hey, he took my accusations on the cross. That's one of the beautiful things Jesus Christ did, right? My guilt, my fears, my shame, all of that is there. And so he radically changed me.

I was not this passionate about this at all. And it was so beautiful because it was right before he called me to Uganda, which is with a bunch of broken people that need to know. who God is and who Jesus Christ is and what he brings to them. And so that peace, that healing that Christ brings is just, again, the gospel changes everything. And it took me, like I said, probably 45 years before it moved from my head to my heart.

So to use a big word to make me sound a lot smarter than I am, there's a certain Christocentricity. That took over your life. That the gospel is all about. I had a great coffee meeting today after our men's group with a young man who we were talking about. Wait, hold on, let's shift over to what he's done for me.

And then he invites us in. to and it changes our identity to enjoy a relationship with him Where he accepts us and loves us, and then that, how that transforms us. Go back to your transformed. People transform people because we know it's the gospel to transform. I don't change anyone's life.

I don't lead anyone to the Lord, but He does through me. And I'm getting a 2XL t-shirt after this show. I'm kind of pumped about that. That's exactly. I'm going to put that thing on.

We'll take a picture. Yeah. We'll post it. You got it. I'll post it on my social media.

I don't care. You got it. But talk about that because that's where the transformation is. We think it's doing for him. And working for him as opposed to being with him and leaning in and just letting him love us and letting him serve us.

We want to take up the we want to take up that cloth and we want to wash his feet. And he says, No, I want to wash your hand. Let it, you know.

So talk about that and how the gospel is transformed as we get out of here and how that's going to change Uganda and the world as Christians wake up to this.

Well, we've got to wake up. You're right. And it starts with me. You know, if my people who are called by my name, it starts with godly sorrow and repentance. But again, that idea of understanding imputed righteousness, right?

Mark's. filthy rags taken away and Christ's work given to me.

So when God looks at me, he's not angry. Don't you love the verse? I'm slow to anger. I'm compassionate. We emphasize that Renew Uganda initiative with our team.

Compassionate literally means shared suffering. It means I come along Stu Epperson alongside, and instead of thinking about all the suffering Mark Guthrie has, and I take your suffering on my shoulders as well. And that's what we try to do with every person we come into contact with in Uganda, right? That shared suffering is compassion because God says he identifies himself as a compassionate God. That's one of the first things he says when he describes himself, slow to anger.

These adjectives that he uses makes me cry because I realize this I in this guy that was disappointed isn't who he is. And so that idea of his passion and compassion and his love for each person, you're right. The gospel, once you grasp that, I mean, bar the doors because you can't help but speak what you have seen and heard. We got to get out of here. Speak to the young person who just can't forgive themselves.

They feel all kinds of shame. Maybe they've blown it. Speak to the older person who's got all these scars and all these things they've done wrong in life that they feel like there's no way they're going to cut it with God. Give us a challenge as we get out of here and give you what's going on. Great news today.

Great news today. That was why Christ came and died on the cross. Your shame, those accusations are not coming from Jesus Christ. Those come from Satan himself. Your shame, your guilt, your anxiety even, all of that stuff, the fear, because that's Satan's workshop.

That's where he loves. That comes, and he is trying to make you and Minimalize your impact for your life with the short time. We just talk about numbering your days.

So if he can get you to the depression and the frustration and the I sinned again, I sinned again, I can't come back to Christ. He is running to you. God runs to you. I sinned again. He'll run to you in one more second.

He'll run to you in the next second. He'll run to you in the next second because it was all paid for. When Christ said it was finished, it is finished. It is finished for all eternity. He is the I am that continues forever until we're in his presence.

So do not let Satan hold you down. You say, there was one lady that just came to know the Lord a few weeks ago. I got to baptize her right before I came. And she looked at me before she did and said, you have no idea what I did. Hallelujah.

And she goes, and I looked at her and said, it doesn't matter. You have no idea what Christ did. And so weeping, she came to know Jesus Christ. Grace is far greater than any of our souls. Far greater than anything.

Your website for Renew Uganda rolls. RenewUganda.org. Please join the team. We would love to. RenewUganda.org.

At the very least, pray, which Which is not the least, that's huge. Get involved. Thank you, Mark Grethor. You're a breath of fresh air, brother. My pleasure.

Love you, man. Thank you for the privilege of being here. you