A Conversation with Laura Perry

TNG Radio, where today's culture and timeless truths come together. It's reasoned, relevant content apologetics, worldview, and answers to the questions that you need to know. From Alex McFarland Ministries, this is Truth for a New Generation Radio. And now, the man who preached in 50 states in 50 days, speaker, writer, and advocate for Christian apologetics, Dr. Alex McFarland. The Word of God says, if anyone is in Christ, they're a new creature.

The old things are passed away. Behold, all things are made new. Hi, Alex McFarland here.

Welcome to Truth for a New Generation. So excited for the program you're about to hear. We've got a very, very special friend at the recording console with us, Laura Perry, whom you'll meet in just a second. Everybody has their story, their story of God working in their lives. And few people have a story so compelling and interesting and inspiring as Laura Perry. She's with me right now.

We're going to talk about the gospel, some of the projects the Lord has her involved in. But Laura, thank you. It's a busy time, and you've carved out a few moments to join us at Truth for a New Generation. And welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad to be here. I just wish everybody could see your smile, because you have got a million-watt smile.

Had Edison not invented the light bulb, not to worry. Your smile could have lit up this entire room. Why are you so joyful, Laura? Jesus has given me so much joy. I'm just so amazed at what he's done in my life. And I think for some people, they try to make their life better, or they want God to maybe fix this problem, but he wants to take you from death to life.

Like you said, I'm a brand-new creature, and he's just given me such joy. Yeah. Well, where's home for you? Where did you grow up? I grew up in Bartlesville, Oklahoma, which is about an hour north of Tulsa, but I live in Oklahoma City now.

Sure. When I think of that, I've been out there to preach a lot. I think of Oklahoma as the West, you know, horses and kind of the cowboy stuff. Did you grow up in a rural area or in the city? No, I'm more of a city girl. Bartlesville is a small town, well, about 30,000, but it's more like a really small city.

It's not really country. Did you grow up in a Christian home? I did, yeah. And we were one of those families. We were at church every time the door was open and involved in all the programs and Christian school and Bible trill. Good Southern Baptist kid.

Well, there you go. Now, I first met you in the context of a movie called In His Image that the American Family Studios produced. Very beautiful.

These sweeping shots of trees and mountains and landscape. Beautiful film. If you would, tell us what was your role in that movie? Well, I got the privilege to share my testimony in that movie and just to declare what Jesus has done in my life. And that testimony centers around what? That I'm a former transgender. You know, I lived that life for almost nine years and had all those surgeries, hormones, legal changes, everything.

I was totally convinced. But the Lord set me free. And that's my declaration of the world.

You know, well, sitting before me is a joyful, very beautiful woman. But you were transitioning to be a male. Although, I believe gender is objective and a male is a male and a female is a female. If you would tell us about that journey, what precipitated your desire not to be a woman? I think I had rejected the feminine in me for a lot of reasons. I had kind of a difficult relationship with my mom. And I look back now, you know, I don't blame her.

None of this was her fault. We're all sinners raising other sinners. We all make mistakes. But I think my mom was raised in such a legalistic religion and all she knew was working hard for God. And so a lot of times she was just too busy, didn't want me around. But I began to interpret that as rejection.

You know, and I believe this lie. And then I held on to bitterness. There's this verse in Hebrews that says, it's Hebrews 12, 15, and 16. It says, Looking diligently, lest any man fall short of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness bring up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled.

There should be any fornicator or profane person, such as Esau, who for one morsel of meats hold his birthright. So this is what I've learned. And looking back at my story, yes, I was angry at my mom for some things. You know, there was some hurt. But honestly, it was a lot of my bitterness that I held on to.

And over the years, it just began to destroy my life. Well, you know, works-based religion does that. Legalism.

How would you define legalism? Well, you know, it was like doing all the right things, checking all the right boxes, making sure you don't step a toe out of line, but no relationship. You know, I never heard about trusting God. We never spent a lot of time. Like, we were doing all the right things going to church, but as a family, I don't remember having discussions, really talking about faith in God.

We didn't talk about a relationship or anything like that. You know, Josh McDowell, who has been a friend for a lot of years, Christian apologist, he says, rules without relationship breeds rebellion. That's exactly what I think happened. That's very true, isn't it? Yeah, I didn't want what my mom had, honestly, at the time. Because I remember, I can still picture the stress on her face when she would come home, because she was so burned out and so stressed out and trying so hard.

But it wasn't her fault. She went to multiple pastors, and they would tell her, Francine, you just need to try harder. Just try harder?

Yeah, try harder. You know, and folks, if you're just tuning in, you're listening to Truth for a New Generation with our guest, Laura Perry. We're talking about Laura's testimony coming out of transgenderism and to Jesus.

But for just a moment, we've got about one minute before the first break. There's a very lovely word, grace. God gives us his grace, doesn't he? How did you give yourself permission to trust in that grace? Well, you know, he had built my faith little by little.

I got saved, actually, about a year and a half before I left the lifestyle. But he built my faith over that time, and I knew I could trust him. And basically, it came down to, he asked me if I trusted him. And it was like this little yes I gave him, and he literally just carried me out. And he just guided me one step at a time. He's the one that's done all the work.

I didn't fix myself for Jesus. He's done it all in me. And we really, really can trust him, can't we?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's a beautiful thing. What do you say to the person out there? And in their heart, maybe there's a little whimper of hope. I want to trust God, but I've been hurt so many times, can I actually trust God? What do you say to that person, Laura? I will say that he will never fail you.

He reminds me of that all the time, that no matter what, he will never leave you nor forsake you, and he will never, ever fail you. Amen. Hey, stay tuned, everybody.

We've got a brief break. We're going to come back more with Laura Perry, how the transformative power of Jesus in her life can also be the love and the power of God in your life, too. We'll explain.

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Welcome back to Truth For A New Generation. Alex McFarland here coming to you with Laura Perry. Laura, I want to thank you for being on. Before we continue your story, how can people find you on the web? I know you're an author. Tell us where we can find your website. They can connect with me at transgender2transformed.com. I have a book by the same name that you can get there. I also work for First Stone Ministries in Oklahoma City.

You're welcome to contact me there or contact the rest of our staff. I was on a webinar a couple of years ago with Restored Hope Network. One of my colleagues from Folks on the Family 20 years ago, Ann Palk.

I don't know if you know Ann, but she's a friend. First Stone Ministries, I met somebody at Restored Hope that was a part of that. Refresh my memory. What do they do? We are a ministry of sexual redemption. We work with the sexually and relationally broken.

That may be people that have struggled with transgenderism or homosexuality, but it could also be people that have struggled with pornography, that have been sexually abused. Sometimes people are just relationally broken. We deal with all kinds of issues. It's a hurt world, isn't it?

Absolutely, yeah. Emotional pains go so deep. I've been on panels and psychologists sometimes. I've had secular psychologists say that there is no way to ever really overcome emotional pain. But I believe in Jesus.

There is. He really, really does make all things new, doesn't he? Absolutely. And I think that's been part of the transformation. People are so blown away at what Jesus has done in me. But honestly, as he's peeled away the layers of the onion, as he's brought healing, as I've been able to forgive those that had hurt me and let go of those wounds and that bitterness, I've been transformed from the inside out.

Exactly. And what was it like when you were making the decision to walk away from your femininity and walk toward masculinity? It was really hard because I knew before I started, I guess you could say, I recognized that I was jealous of men. But once I embraced that, I really believed the lie that I was born that way. I was absolutely convinced. I went to the support group meeting and within five minutes they were like, Oh, you are definitely transgender.

I just bought it. I remember every little step, I would look forward to the next step. Oh, I can't wait until I start my hormones. Then you start that and you realize that it's still kind of fake. You're like, well, once I get my name legally changed, then it will be real.

Everybody will believe that's me. And it's like, well, that's still not kind of working. And then even after surgery, I remember after my surgery, I liked the physical results. And it seemed to take away the pain. It's like any kind of painkiller.

It takes away the pain for a short time. But I recognized that it wasn't real. And it was devastating to me. And the more I went down that road, I kept trying, but it's like you get to a point. It's like walking up a seesaw or something. And at some point it tips over and it's like, well, I can't go back. You feel like you're in too deep. And there was no way I wanted to be a woman, so I just kept going deeper and deeper.

Even though I'd recognized that it really wasn't real, I kept hoping, but that day never came. Did you have peace inside? No. As you were going down this road and you said, look, this is what will bring me peace. You didn't have peace?

No. I mean, for a while it was really fun. I mean, there was days that I just thought it was the greatest thing ever. And it's kind of like being at an amusement park while you're there. It's fun and it's exciting and you kind of forget about everything else for a while. But then eventually the rides close down and it's time to go home.

And there's this disappointment. And you realize after a while that the life you're living is not real. And what had promised to be freedom had become my prison cell. Because I had to reinvent my life all the time. I eventually had a job where I was only known as male. They didn't even know I was trans. And I was having to make up stuff or lie about who I was. So I would be telling a story about childhood and it was like, oh, wait a minute, I couldn't have been in Girl Scouts. I had to have been in Boy Scouts. Or I started talking about an ex-boyfriend one time and I'm supposed to be this straight man that's married to a woman. And my partner was actually also trans.

We hardly ever did anything outside in public. We were so afraid of being found out. Every time I had a conversation with people, all I was thinking was, do they know? So to cover up a lie, you had to invent more lies. Yeah.

And that's got to be burdensome. It was. I was just getting buried under lies. And I remember the day it really hit me that I had, I found out that an ex-boyfriend of mine was marrying this girl. And he'd been abusive.

This was just a horrible relationship. And I had all these emotions. And I went and I was telling my boss, who had become a good friend about this, and I'm just going on and on. And she's looking at me and her eyes are getting bigger.

And I don't realize this. And I'm like, and she said, Jake, do you swing both ways? And I was like, what? Totally caught off guard. And I remember being so angry that day and being so sick of living this lie. And I just realized it was never going to be real.

Wow. You know, that's a moment of honesty. I mean, probably somewhat painful honesty. But so many, when I've spoken at universities, people have said to me, sure, you know, people that are in the gay lifestyle or the pursuing transgenderism, they are depressed, they engage in substance abuse, but it's because of you conservatives that make them feel bad about themselves. And I, you know, I've said, well, you know, I've spoken in hundreds of churches and I've been around some of the most conservative people you'd ever meet.

And I've never yet heard somebody make disparaging remarks or try to hurt somebody's feelings. Now, we might say, well, look, the Lord says this in his word. But what do you say to the people that say, well, the trans people who are unsatisfied, it's because all of you conservative Christians who make the rest of us feel bad. What would be your response to that?

Well, there's a lot of information out there. There was a study several years ago done in Sweden where they showed that the suicide numbers were almost exactly the same or maybe a little higher after surgery and after they had all the affirmation in the world. And I can tell you even from many of their stories I've heard that the affirmation is good for a while, but it's not enough to sustain.

It's not enough to override the lies. And even with my parents, they wouldn't use the pronouns and the name that I wanted. But at the same time, I would get angry, but they really weren't causing the depression and all the anxiety and everything like that. Actually, it was like a tethered reality to me. It reminded me of who I really was, even though it's the very thing I wanted to cut off.

But the real depression was coming from the fact that I was living a lie and that this was never real, and I was angry that the surgeries and the hormones weren't making it real. Yeah. Now, we're going to come back and talk with Laura Perry. And folks, you don't want to miss this. Whether you're struggling with these issues or not or you're just watching the news every day, we need to be informed, and Laura's going to continue to inspire and educate us on this edition of Truth For A New Generation, so stay tuned. ...to come to Christ and stay with Christ in the midst of the woke movement, critical race theory, and Marxism in America. October 15th through 17th in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

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Welcome back to Truth for a New Generation. We're going to resume our conversation with Laura Perry, but I do want to remind everybody, we have our first post-COVID TNG, Biblical World View Conference, coming up October 15 through 17, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Frank Turek, one of the greatest communicators you will ever hear. Listen, your middle schoolers, your high schoolers, your teens will love Dr. Frank Turek. Sandy Rios, a journalist and broadcaster living in Washington.

Bishop E.W. Jackson, more than a dozen speakers. Music by the award-winning group from Nashville, the Bird Songs. I've worked with them in four or five city-wide events. They're amazing. At the Truth for a New Generation Conference, we're talking about the woke movement, why socialism, critical race theory, Black Lives Matter, BLM, is actually a threat to our nation, and what we can do as citizens and as Christians, as parents, as leaders, to be informed to make a difference. Go to my website, alexmcfarland.com, alexmcfarland.com, and we want to see you at Truth for a New Generation, October 15 through 17. Well, Laura, I want to say welcome back, and it's such a joy to have you.

It really is. And I just want to applaud you for your courage, because, you know, that moment when you realize, look, I'm going down a wrong path. I better turn the car around. And that's not just physically, but spiritually. You turn to Jesus. Regardless of what deep hole we've dug for ourselves, He can get us out of it, can't He?

Yeah, absolutely. In fact, that's kind of the point He had brought me to, because I kept thinking. I was convicted after I'd come to Christ about the life I was living, but I didn't know how to fix it, and I kept trying, and I kept thinking of everything I could do, and I got mad at God at one point. I said, what am I supposed to do, just show up in a dress at work and say, just kidding, I'm really a girl. I was at a job where I was only known as male.

No one even knew I was trans. And so I kept wrestling through how I was going to fix this, because I knew God didn't want me living that lifestyle. But I finally saw myself in this deep, dark pit that I couldn't get out of, just like you're describing. And I could see the light at the top, but I had no way out. And He reminded me of Matthew 16, 24-26, that says, If anyone will come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me, for whosoever will save his life shall lose it, but whosoever loses his life for My sake shall find it.

For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and yet forfeit his own soul? And I remember thinking at that moment, what if I hang on to this and lose it all for eternity? I was so convicted, and I knew that I was going to stand before Him one day, and I had a vision of Jesus getting down on one knee. He raised His hand and this pit I was in, and He said, Do you trust Me?

And He was asking me to just walk away from everything. It's the hardest thing I've ever done, and I felt like I was absolutely dying at first. I realized later I was dying. I was dying to myself, and dying to that life, dying to that identity.

And it really was, my parents had experienced almost like the death of their daughter when I went into that lifestyle. But it was literally like I was grieving the death of this identity that I had had. But after that, it was literally like I'd been raised from the dead. I remember once the blinders came off and the lie broke off, it was really like I'd just been so set free. And it still took several years to heal, but I remember just feeling like I'd been resurrected. Amen.

Amen. You know, in the Chronicles of Narnia story by C.S. Lewis, there's a story of one of the characters, his name Eustace, and he's in sin, and he turns into this dragon, actually. And Aslan, the lion who represents Jesus, peels the scales off of him, and Eustace is saying, oh, you're killing me, I'm not going to survive this, I'm going to die. But in allowing the Lord to transform his life, that's how he actually lived. It's a lot like that, isn't it? When we really let go of where we are and embrace Jesus, we might think it's going to be our undoing, but it's really our liberation, isn't it?

Yeah, absolutely. I really thought I was going to be miserable the rest of my life. I just thought, but if I can just hang on, I knew it would be better in heaven one day, I knew that I'd have a new body and I wouldn't struggle with these things, but I've just been like a bird set free. And this is the verse that comes to mind a lot.

It says, Eye has not seen, nor ears heard, nor has even entered into the heart of man the things that God has in store for those that love him. Amen. And I've seen, God has blown me away at what he's done in my life and what he's brought, and I love being feminine now. I never thought that was possible. Well, like I said earlier, you have joy.

You just radiate the presence of the Lord. And hey, the book, you wrote that book and you've got that website. Tell us again where people can find those. Yeah, it's at transgendertotransformed.com and the book is the same title.

You can find it there on the website. We've heard in the last four or five years probably from several hundred parents who said, Oh, Alex, pray for us. Our child came out as gay or trans and oftentimes moms and dads, they just want to cut to the chase and they don't know what to do. Can you give a little advice to the mom or the dad that their heart is broken because their son or daughter is going down a path of sexual brokenness, sexual deviancy? What do you say to the mom and the dad?

The most important thing is to keep your eyes on Jesus. I've talked to so many parents that they're either in despair and in so much guilt and shame on themselves. Even with the problems with my mom, none of this was her fault.

Like I said, we're all sinners raising other sinners. There are many lies that I believed. She really did love me.

I was the one that was holding on to this bitterness and not forgiving. But as my parents, they tried to fix me at first and I could feel they were trying to pull me. But eventually, they really surrendered me into the Lord's hands and they got their eyes on Jesus. And as they pursued him and they were being transformed, they went from being very good Christians, sort of this religious, but they became filled with faith and peace. It was such a difference. And as they got their eyes on Jesus and began to pursue him, it began to draw me.

Wow. If you had one prayer for the American church at this time, because so much is in the news about this, and even among more liberal denominations, they're giving a thumbs up to this. What would your prayer be for the church at large in the USA regarding transgenderism? I pray that the church would stand firm on the Word of God. Do not compromise. We'll never save souls by lowering the bar. Jesus didn't do that.

Even like with the rich, young ruler, he let him walk away. And yet we can be filled with compassion, and we need to be there like the father of the prodigal son to embrace people, to draw them, to bring them to Jesus, but without compromising the Word. God bless you. Hey, I hope we can visit again soon. I'll be praying for you. I commend you for your service to the Lord. And that website again, transgender2transformed.com. Folks, thanks for listening to Truth For A New Generation. Keep us in prayer. You can find us on the website, alexmcfarland.com. God bless you and God bless you. God bless you.