Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like, you should know you should check your draft stats first before you put them on your fantasy team. Or, you should definitely check the expiration date on that can of bean dip you picked up at the gas station first before you dive in.
Yeah, checking first is smart. So, check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate.
Savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. See Allstate.com for details. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Hey guys, glad to be back with you here on What the Football. Susie and Amy, of course, and they say that timing is everything. And just as we sit down in these very chairs awaiting Stephen A. Smith, Antonio Pierce is fired as head coach of the Raiders, a 9 and 17 record since taking over as interim coach last season. And being named the full-time head coach a year ago.
Amy, what are your thoughts right off the bat? A couple thoughts. The team played hard for Antonio all season long. Even as the losses were adding up, the team never ever quit on him.
So, I thought that this would be a tough decision, a decision into which a lot of thought would go. We've all heard that Brady is weighing in, and I think that's terrific. Brady is a part owner of the team now. They'd be silly not to listen to him.
But a name we don't hear enough in my view, Susie, is Richard Seymour. Because just as Brady purchased an equity interest in the team, so too did Richard. And my experience working with Richard is he is just extraordinarily smart and wise, and they should listen to Richard as well. So, hopefully they'll listen to Tom, they'll listen to Richard. Not necessarily that they'll be decision makers, but give them input. What do you think this says about Pierce and his position with this team, though, to have an owner one and done?
One and a half, I would say. What do you think this says about where Mark Davis was with him and where they might go from here? Well, what we don't know yet is if or to what extent input from Tom or Richard or others was factored into Mark's decision, or if he made the decision on his own. My hunch is that he solicited input from people he's very good at doing, that he listens to people he trusts. Who knows? Maybe Jim Gray made the decision.
You know, it's so funny. I was going to just ping you a little bit on that and just poke you a little bit on that, thinking, huh, I wonder if Jim is putting on his GM shoes for this one. Well, he certainly may have had input. He's had input on quite a few things in that organization.
But as I said, you've got men who know the game. You've got Tom who can now give you input. You've got Richard. And again, we don't hear Richard's name enough. And that may be by Richard's choice, because Richard, he's just a tremendous man.
I know I would be soliciting his input, but he may be choosing to give it quietly as opposed to, as is said in the law, open and notoriously. They have a big decision to make. But I will note again, the team never, ever, ever quit playing for Antonio. And when your record wanes, as the team did over the year, you see teams quit.
And this team played hard every down. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see who they do go to for this head coaching position. It's a crazy carousel right now.
Stephen A. Smith is the perfect person. We'll have him on momentarily to talk about this. I think it's six now, isn't it? Just math. I don't do math. Okay. You know what?
That's just one of the things I love about you. I don't do math either. I don't do math. Stephen A. is a great person to talk about this with, because obviously, we'll be talking to him about Gerard Mayo and what happened with one and done in New England, also about the situation in Dallas right now. And I'm curious if you could help us unpack a little bit before we get to Stephen A., your thoughts on where Mike McCarthy is contractually right now with Jerry Jones. It's a great question. And I should say, Susie, I shouldn't do math on air.
So having made that mistake before, I won't again. A great question as to Mike. And look, from the perspective of one who was on the business side of contracts, and from the perspective of one who went to law school, the team negotiated a contract with him, which gives the team the exclusive rights to have him speak to them and only to them for the next roughly a week. Again, I won't do the math and count the number of days. But there's about another week left of exclusivity for the Cowboys. And I think that's a great question. And when you negotiate something like that into a contract, it's your right to say, look, we have the right to keep you from talking to anyone else for the next week or so.
And again, it's roughly a week. So from a business perspective, the Cowboys have every right to do what they're doing. From a legal perspective, the Cowboys have every right to do what they're doing.
But from a human standpoint, if they have decided that they don't want Mike back, and I don't know that they have, or if they're thinking they might not want him back, and I don't know that they are, then go ahead and let him talk to other people. The problem is, of course, if they haven't decided, or if they know they want him back, by letting him talk to other teams, they may be granting him leverage. If he goes and talks to another team, and the team makes him an offer, he now has leverage. And if you're the Cowboys, and you're looking at this from a business or legal perspective, wait, I negotiated this contract, so you wouldn't have that leverage. Why should I give you that leverage now? And my answer to that is, you know, do the right thing if that's the right thing to do.
But let me just add one last thing on this, Suzy. There's a lot of chitter chatter all the time about, does Jerry want to win? Does he really care about winning?
I worked with Jerry and Stephen and Charlotte and Jerry Jr. on league matters while in the league. They want to win. I know you've not said that, but when we've talked about this before, I get a lot of feedback. Do they really care about winning? And my answer is yes, yes, yes, they want to win.
Yeah, I can't imagine somebody really questioning that. Yes, he's made strange decisions, not only on waiting on Dak Prescott, waiting on C.D. Lamb, and now waiting on Mike McCarthy.
The deadline, of course, being January 14th, and we take this on a Tuesday week in advance. But it is strange. I think that there's no doubt in my mind, as he's mentioned before on his own radio show, how badly he wants to win one more time. And he talks about his relationship with God, and he asked God to win. And he said, well, can I have one more, et cetera. But with the Bears expressing interest in Mike McCarthy coming to Chicago to work with Caleb Williams, we've seen this happen across the National Football League, where somebody gets let go and suddenly they're a huge star elsewhere.
Saquon Barkley comes to mind right away, and the teams pay the dividends for that. But you're saying do the right thing, and yet it's a business deal. Well, and that's what I'm saying. You have to balance the fact that, hey, look, we negotiated the right to keep you from talking to anyone else until, as you just noted, it was the 14th.
It is a week from today that required math. Look, we negotiated an exclusivity until the 14th. But if you've already made up your mind, and I'm not suggesting they have, then why preclude him from doing that? And the answer is because you don't want to give him leverage in case you ultimately do wish to negotiate a new contract.
But Suze, let me let you in on a little secret. Even when teams aren't supposed to be talking to some players or coaches, they find a way to do it behind the scenes. Even when players and coaches aren't supposed to be talking to other teams, they find a way to do it. It's through third parties. It's through agents. Conversations go on even when they're not supposed to or not allowed to go on.
I just would love to have an understanding. We understand no team is more of a family team than that of the Cowboys and the Joneses, but it has been really head-scratching this year to see Jerry wade up into the last moments repeatedly to make these decisions. And you're left wondering, why is he taking so long on this coaching? We had the questions about whether Belichick would go to the Cowboys. Clearly he found a home in North Carolina in the college ranks. We've also kind of wondered if McCarthy is a fit with his team, period.
Do you think it's a FOMO thing? Do you think he's worried about McCarthy leaving and finding a winning opportunity with the Bears or elsewhere? I think he may be engaging in something I always, always, always advocate people in all businesses do. Asking himself and do what? If he's thinking of moving on from Mike McCarthy, and I don't know that he is, but if he's considering that as an option, you need to ask yourself and do what? If we choose to move on from Mike and do what?
And if the answer to that question isn't as good or better than the status quo, then what the heck are you doing? And he may be going through that analysis right now. I understand injuries come into play as well, but obviously we've had an injury-prone season. I think I understand more why the Giants are keeping Deball more than I understand why he would stay with McCarthy. Interesting.
Why? I feel like Deball has a different track record. I feel like they've got to reinvent at the quarterback position.
I feel like there's more of a fear of Deball leaving and potentially winning right away. I just don't know that I think, I almost don't understand in myriad ways why they think McCarthy is a better option with this young quarterback who really needs the help there. Well, let me go back to something you just said about the Giants because you referenced the quarterback situation and you're absolutely right. They have a problem at the quarterback situation.
They need to solve it. And yet they're keeping the GM who did the Daniel Jones contract and let's say Quan leave. That puzzles me more than the coaching decision in some regards. I would leave the coach and I would get a new GM. I mean, you're saddled with that Jones contract.
You're not saddled entirely, but that's just the equestrian enemy coming out in reference saddling. And you let say Quan go, but you're keeping the but you're keeping the GM. That's interesting. Stephen is the perfect guest for this. We're going to unpack all of this with him as well. I have to talk to him about Jerry Jones, the actor.
I don't know whether he saw land man or not, but which and I never have time to watch TV. Never. Right. We're so tired all the time.
We've got these three kids that are, you know, just, just milking the life out of us. And we watched a lot of land man over break and Billy Bob Thornton show, it's Taylor Sheridan, just incredible. Anyway, we're watching last night.
We're so psyched to get an episode in and our, our dear friend John Ham is dying in bed at the end. I don't want to give too much away because if you haven't seen it, it's truly phenomenal. And Demi Moore says at one point to Billy Bob Thornton, a guest of the Rich Eisen show on a frequent basis, Jerry's in there talking to, she's referring to her husband.
And we hear this incredible soliloquy on being a family man and running a family business. And there is Jerry Jones, the actor who had never seen him acting before. Was he good? When I tell you, he was so phenomenal. Really?
So lights out great. And what he was really doing was unpacking his own story of how he followed his kids to college, how he got these two oil wells in California, how he then got the money to fund the Cowboys and how he says to John Ham's character, he reminds him, I did this whole business so I could work with my children. And he wants John's character to do that as well.
It was so spectacular. And I thought, Jerry Jones, if he wants to take a break from running the Cowboys, he's got a future in Hollywood. But it really made me think about where he is right now with this team, because he is very aware of his mortality. This story he told was directly in parallel to what he's living with the Cowboys right now. And as we get on one of the greatest cowboy haters of all time, Stephen A, it really made me think about Jerry's decisions and how this decision is actually far weightier than we even think about it from a football perspective, because he is looking at the rest of his legacy with the team right now and how he makes the decision with his coaching really affects that. And I have tremendous respect for how honest he was about that when he was questioned the other day about, are you going to step away from this GM role? And he said, I bought this business to run it.
It's not an investment. It's their family business. It's just phenomenal. So we will unpack all of that with Stephen A ahead, as well as head of the Gerard Mayo situation in New England as well.
Another one and done. Mike Rabel is clearly the prettiest girl at the dance right now. I mean, I've never seen somebody's name come up in more conversations. And it really led me to think, why didn't they just take him last year? Did they set Gerard Mayo up? Did they have the confidence in him? I really thought it was fascinating to watch Robert Kraft take the absolute and full blame for what happened there.
Look, anybody who knows me at all knows how much I adore. I still call him Mr. Kraft because I grew up with him and have such a huge amount of respect for him, but for him to go out there and say, we made a mistake here and we put him in a bad position. But it has to make me wonder, was there FOMO there as well? Were they too worried about Gerard Mayo possibly going off and doing well elsewhere? Is that why they kept him? Well, or had they really made... I mean, look, the report was they had made a commitment to him years back that he would be the successor and they just may have wanted to honor that commitment. And you know what, Suzy, people think there's such ill will between me and the Patriots and all of that, and that's not the case.
Because the tech world? Something like that. I vaguely recall that. But I have tremendous, tremendous respect and appreciation for Robert and Jonathan. And we don't have time to do it now, but at some point if we ever want, I'll tell you something spectacular Robert did for me during my career.
Go. Well, there was a situation where Al accused the Patriots of tampering. And I said, Al, they didn't tamper.
Our guy called the Patriots. They didn't tamper. And Al just kept on it. He was going to go after them with a tampering claim. And I kept saying, Al, I won't let you file it.
They did not tamper. Well, there was a league meeting the next week or so. And to make a long story short, I approached Robert Kraft. And as I did, you could just see him sort of tense up. And I said, I'd like a moment of your time. And I explained to him, I know you didn't tamper. I've told Al you didn't tamper.
I'm not going to let Al file any sort of a claim. And you could just see Robert, you could just see him take a breath and appreciate what I said. And then he shared with me some advice that to this day gives me goosebumps and explained to me that he understood what I was working with and the situation with Al's age. And he just really gave me some tremendous supportiveness for my career and some tremendous advice. And I will always appreciate that. Oh, that's fantastic. I love that story.
I mean, like I said, I've known him since I was about 14 or 15. His youngest son, Dave, went to the all-boys school, to my all-girls school. And he was incredibly supportive of me when I went to Columbia. Oh, that's terrific. And I've been so grateful for him being out in front of the anti-Semitic. His Blue Square campaign has been really powerful. I think it took a lot of courage and character to get out there and speak the way he did.
You don't really hear that many owners do that. And I thought that took tremendous... I served on a committee that Jonathan headed up to, the league's digital media committee.
And I have the same respect for Jonathan as well. That said, we go right back to the coaching carousel. We go right back to Mike Rabel, who makes... As somebody who grew up watching the Patriots and loving the Patriots and watching them win, Rabel was so... I'm sorry, my earpiece must have... I just didn't hear any of that. My earpiece must have gone out.
You know, I mean, it's like for any... What? But Rabel, he is part of Patriots lore. And we know we have... You think that's where he'll end up? 100%. I feel so... I feel like it... Breaking news.
You heard it here. You know, you said there's so much stuff going in the back channels, the agenting. And again, when I was covering baseball, I was constantly dealing with back channels and picking Scott Boris' brain and, come on, tell me ahead of time and trying to work out deals to get the info ahead of time. But I just feel like...
I wonder if that's a done deal already. You know what, Suzy? Sometimes I think I'd be... Not sometimes, all the time, my alternate life. A spy. I'd be a spy. I would like you to be on my spy team. I would be a spy. We would be a great spy team. So this would be like your new Lifetime movie would be like Spies Like Us, but the redo? Like you and me? You and me.
Yeah. But we'd really be spies in real life. Let's just see if I'm right. I feel like this deal is already done.
I would like to pretend that I know something that I don't, because I always like to know more than everybody else. But I have a feeling the Rabel deal is already done. I will look like such an asshole if he goes somewhere else.
But I just feel like there's gotta be a reason why Mayo's gone. And I just have a feeling that the deal is already set. One last thing before we welcome our guest.
If you are listening, CIA or NSA, we are not really spies. I got a riddle for you. What do yoga mats, a toothbrush, and a Hyundai have in common? I'll give you a moment.
Time's up. If you guess they're all fun, well-designed and super useful, you guessed wrong. The answer is you can order all those things on Amazon.
That's right. You can now buy a Hyundai on Amazon, the same place where you order yoga mats, a toothbrush, and pretty much everything else, all from the comfort of your home. And the best part, you won't even have to break down a car-sized Amazon box after, because you'll pick up your Hyundai at the dealer. I mean, picture this.
You're in your PJs, snugged in on your couch. You pull up Amazon on your phone and start the process right there. Just locate a nearby dealer, pick your color, your options, check the price, and with a few dotting of some I's and crossing of some T's, voila, your Hyundai is ready for pickup. It's that easy.
Just remember to put some real clothes on before you head over, will you? Hyundai, now available on Amazon. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details.
Limited availability only through participating Hyundai dealers in select markets. As a business owner, you're always going that extra mile to pursue your passions. So you deserve partners who can help you go further with premium benefits and rewards. The American Express Business Platinum Card offers world-class business and travel benefits, so you can get more for your business wherever it takes you. With the Amex Business Platinum Card, you can earn 1.5 times membership rewards points on select business purchases, and you can get complimentary access to more than 1,400 airport lounges worldwide, including the Centurion Lounge, so you can keep running your business while you're on the go. See how the Amex Business Platinum Card gives business owners like you the tools and rewards to do more of what you love. Terms and points can't apply.
Learn more at americanexpress.com slash Amex Business. And as promised, our great friend Stephen A. Smith joins us here on What the Football. Stephen A. and Antonio Pierce. The timing is crazy. What are your thoughts on the Raiders quote-unquote relieving him of his duties? It's sad.
It's unfortunate. Obviously, they thought he was a head coach for the future. Very candid.
Very no-nonsense. Obviously, an accomplished football player during his NFL career, but this is about winning in this business. And when you see a plethora of coordinators at various places doing bang-up jobs and making sure to make things happen, and then you feel like your team has been non-competitive in a lot of instances and whatever you're in route to a 4 and 13 record, heads are going to roll. We know that. We understand that that comes with the business.
He understood that. It's unfortunate that they made some of the changes that they made, that they took some of the talent away from him, that he wasn't able to have a quarterback. But in the same breath, you kind of know what you signed up for, and you got to find a way to get it done. And if you don't, results like this end up happening. You think this is the right move, though? It depends on the coach that they get in return to succeed him.
If you go out there, you get a big-time coach or somebody that's considered a golden boy that has tremendous potential, and that's the route that you go, then you can't say it's the wrong pick. We'll find out next season and beyond. Remember, you've got some private equity owners in the mix now. You've got Tom Brady as a part of the mix now, and they're going to have a say in terms of looking at this team and what it needs to do to move forward and be successful.
And you're going to listen to what they bring to the table, and you're going to operate accordingly. So I don't think we know the answer to that question at this particular moment in time. Time will tell, but usually when these decisions are made and you see a guy getting shortchanged in terms of the irrational decisions that come on the part of some executives, it does raise an eyebrow.
It makes you a bit suspicious. Houston did it for years. I got to a point where I didn't want them to hire a black coach because you just hire enough in one year and then ultimately let them go. But then obviously the Meeko Ryans came along, and you see the job that he's done, and that's no longer an issue.
So again, you strike, and it's a hit-or-miss business. And you mentioned that, and then I have to ask you right away about Jerrod Mayo. What are your thoughts on the Patriots letting him go after a year? I certainly didn't like that, but I do appreciate how owner Robert Kraft handled it. Putting it on himself, recognizing that he didn't put him in an ideal situation to win, etc.
But in the same breath, you would have liked to have seen him have more of a chance in an additional year, particularly with Drake May getting some time under his belt. But I think that when you called the team soft, when you alienated some of the players, I think that's one of the things that Robert Kraft was looking at, and it was a huge turnoff for him. And I also think that when you're succeeding the great Bill Belichick, a six-time champion as a head coach, a two-time champion as a coordinator, eight championships overall, you know how meticulous he is, how he pays rapt attention to detail, etc. When you're succeeding somebody like him, you get measured for everything.
You get judged on everything. And unfortunately, as is the case with most super head coaches, usually their successors don't end up measuring up. When you think about the Romeo Cornels, you know, and others that have come from the Belichick tree, who's been nearly as successful as him?
The answer is no one. And so when you've been spoiled like that, if you're Robert Kraft and the Kraft family, you're going to be meticulous about really, really defining the job that the person, his successor ends up doing for you. And if they don't measure up to snuff, you're going to feel the need to make a change quick, faster than a hurry. Yeah. And Steven, Amy and I talked about it at length before. I mean, I've known Mr. Kraft. I still call him Mr. Kraft since I was a kid. And he is no doubt a player's owner. I think what you said is a hundred percent true that calling the players soft rubbed him the wrong way.
But there's also the double whammy of Mike Rabel being out there. And you know, he loves Patriot lore. You know, he loves the guys who wear the coats.
And do you think this is a, I think it's done. I mean, I will look like a total asshole if it wasn't, but it seems to me that I would be shocked if Mike Rabel didn't walk in there with a jacket fairly soon. I think we, I think, I think we all would. I think we all would, because I think that if you're in new England, one of the reasons you made this move at this particular moment in time is that you want him and you certainly don't want him ending up being the head coach of the New York Jets, a division rival, you don't want that. And so I think that definitely plays a role at some degree and Robert Kraft making the decision that he made this quickly. But nevertheless, it still seems a bit unfair to Gerard Mayo, particularly considering how Robert Kraft felt about him.
But then, you know, as a black man, you have to take this into consideration. He did give this man an opportunity. There were other directions that he could have gone in when he decided to let go of Bill Belichick. And he handed the reins to a guy that has played for the New England Patriots. That's helped them win in the past.
That's an African American. And obviously he gave them an opportunity. He gave him an opportunity. And so when you look at it from that standpoint, how can you just, you know, continues, you know, just, just, just pour shade on Robert Kraft? I would have preferred that he kept Gerard Mayo another year and given them an opportunity. But in the same breath, he gave him this opportunity and he didn't like what he saw.
And, you know, it's not just about the record. You know, that Robert Kraft was on top of things well enough to see practice habits, along with your relationship with players, how you've ingratiated yourself to the players, how you proceed, how they perceive perceiving you to be moving into the future. You also know that Robert Kraft is the kind of person that will talk to players before making such a decision.
And you have to take that into consideration as well. When you think about the decision he ultimately ended up making, you think Mayo gets another chance right away. What do you think he'll end up? No, I think he'll get an opportunity to be an assistant coach, but I don't think that you get your head for your first head coaching job, you finish four and 13, and then you turn around, by the way, below having the number one overall pick in the upcoming NFL draft, because you win a game, the last game of the season. I don't think you turn around from that and land a head coaching job.
I don't think that's going to happen. Well, it'll be interesting to see where he ends up. It'll be interesting to see where Antonio ends up. I mean, you know, I'm not telling you anything you don't know that team played hard for Antonio every day of every game, no matter what the record was.
You know, you referenced something when you were in your initial comments that had me smiling ear to ear. I don't know whether you could see that or not, but you talked about the Raiders and what they do next. And what I shared with Susie before you joined us was when you let him go, you had best ask yourself the question and do what? And if the Raiders don't have an answer that's as good or better than the status quo, and this doesn't go just for the Raiders, but every team, the Patriots, any team leading, letting a head coach go and do what? Ask yourself that question and answer it.
And if the answer is not as good or better than what you have, then what are you doing? Here's why I think that that's not a concern that they have, because I think that the city of Las Vegas and Raider nation is excited and intrigued to find out what kind of impact is Tom Brady going to have. There is nothing about him that gives you the impression that he's just somebody that's in it for the money. He's a seven-time Super Bowl champion. He signed a contract to do color commentary for Fox Sports on Sundays a couple of years ago.
It was 10 years. It was $375 million, and he still waited to get in some practice sessions and to master the art of what he was doing before he went and decided to do it full-time. And that Tom Brady is now in a position as a part owner where he'll be a voice in the room and he gets an opportunity to evaluate talent. Well, when everything else he's done has been that of a winner, why would anybody else have say over him when it comes to picking personnel or picking who the next head coach should be?
I got to be honest with you. If I'm Mark Davis, I let Tom Brady make the call. I know that might not be in him because he is the son of Al Davis, God rest his soul. But I will tell you, I strongly consider deferring to Tom Brady to make the decision about who that next dude is going to be. Because whoever that person is going to be, you're going to support it until there's evidence to contradict your support, just because it's Tom Brady. And that is the kind of thing that I believe the Raiders need right now, because they haven't given you much reason to place your faith in their decision-making as it pertains to a head coach, as it pertains to a quarterback, as it pertains to who they elect to let go and where they allow them to depart to.
All of these things have been a huge question mark. Josh Jacobs is in New England performing. Devante Adams didn't have what he was supposed to have or whatever. DeAndre Hopkins, I'm sorry, Devante Adams. But I'm just saying, when you look at Tom Brady, you talk about people that's going to sit back and take a let's see attitude and give you the benefit of the doubt.
I don't know anybody on this planet pertaining to football that would have that luxury at their disposal more so than Tom Brady. Welcome to AutoZone. What are you working on today? Ah, thinking about gas mileage? You know, changing your oil with a full synthetic oil like Mobile One can help your engine get more miles. Right now, you can get five quarts with an STP extended life oil filter for only $38.99.
Get started on your next job today with the parts you need when you need them at AutoZone or AutoZone.com. Restrictions apply. This is a PSA or public sock announcement. Experts have declared Bombas socks as the best way to warm up chilly feet.
These pairs are super cushy, soft, and designed for maximum coziness. Plus, for every pair purchased, another pair will be donated so someone in need of essential clothing can stay warm this winter. Go to Bombas.com slash listen and use code listen for 20% off your first purchase.
That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash listen and use code listen at checkout. Well, I won't belabor the issue because I shared this with Susie at some length when we started. I absolutely positively believe they will and they should take input from Tom, but I also think they should take input from Richard Seymour, who also owns a piece of this team now. So I would listen to Tom.
I would listen to Richard take their input and go with it from there. I think it's insane to think, what's that Steven? I agree with you about Richard Seymour, who by the way, we're being totally honest nearly blew his opportunity to be a part owner for the ratings. I mean, you know that a lot better than me, but you know, I'm telling the truth. He almost blew it.
Thank goodness he did it. Having said all of that, regardless of his credentials, there's only one Tom Brady. There's only one Tom Brady.
There are voices. And then there are those who should be whose decision making you should rely upon at least initially until further until further notice. But that was that's what I was saying. I mean, it's all well and good. But if Mark Davis didn't want Tom Brady to sit in the driver's seat, he wouldn't have allowed him to buy in.
That's the bottom line. Like he needed him. He needed the face. He needed the voice. He needed someone to take charge. And at some point, Tom's just got to realize, like, you can't have both.
He's always had it all. But like, decide whether you want to win with this team and put your all into it. But you can't do everything. Well, I mean, you can't do everything.
I don't understand what you're saying. I mean, like, I think that it's like, he wants to have the voice of who's going to be the coach. He wants to be able to steer the ship on this. But it's all he's also calling games. It's so complicated.
It would almost make I think we can get over that. I think that when you've given as much to the game as Tom Brady and we're talking about NFL that prints money, when you have somebody that's able to capitalize financially off of it in a way that no other broadcaster has been able to in history, I think you give him the opportunity to see what he can do before you poo poo it. Certainly you keep your antennas up. You keep a watchful eye on it.
You monitor it accordingly. But this is a seven time champion that we're talking about. The greatest quarterback the history of the game has ever seen in the eyes of a lot of people, certainly the greatest resume who has shown a propensity to be dedicated to his craft. And as a broadcaster, as somebody that entrenched in sports every single day, that understands the responsibility that comes along with the job.
I don't think somebody calling football games for 17 weeks a season is incapable of handling the responsibility of being able to look at a franchise and give you an educated voice to the proceedings. I think that's something that he's he can do it. He can do it and I think he'll do it well. I think he can do whatever he wants. He's kind of proved that. I'm just saying that there's no doubt in my mind that he didn't come in as a part owner to give his influence and to help make decisions. That's all I'm saying.
Oh yeah, definitely. So he shouldn't. I mean, he should have a voice and he should be unapologetic about it. He should be able to Tom. Tom Brady should be able to say, I don't think that's going to work.
That ain't the way to go. He would know why. And he would be able to articulate why better than anybody in that room, whatever room that is, in my opinion. And I don't disagree with either you on the value that Tom can add and the input and that it will help. I think I'm stronger than either of you on the importance of listening to Richard Seymour as well.
I worked with Richard when he was with the team. He is intelligent. He is wise.
He is thoughtful. I hear you on Tom. I don't disagree with you on Tom. I'd give Richard a loud voice as well.
I'd give Richard a loud voice too. I'm simply saying that if I had to choose between who would be a final voice, that would be Tom Brady. And the reason I would say that is because we have to take into account your fan base and a level of faith they're looking to conjure up or to ultimately take hold of because they haven't had a reason to have much faith in recent memory. And so when you're selling a product to the public, as you both know, convincing them goes a long way towards your business being fruitful. And I think that's incredibly important. So when Tom Brady says something, it's going to carry far more weight with the public than even somebody as credentialed as Richard Seymour. So the importance is for him to be in the room, to speak his mind, to be able to say what he believes is right and to have those thoughts and feelings taken into consideration.
What I'm saying about Tom Brady is that I'd have no problem if he was the final voice on important football matters. Gotcha. I thank you. I did not understand. Thank you for clarification. Understood. Thank you.
I want to ask you about Tyreek Hill and what you think is happening down in Miami. What do you think the conversation is? Obviously we're hearing, Oh, things are copacetic, but they can't be. They're not.
Oh, that's a lie. Um, and I didn't like the way you handed. I thought it was very immature, very irresponsible. And if you're a Miami dolphin, uh, I don't want to say outright unforgivable because he has been playing hurt for most of this year and then wanting him to insert himself in the game in a meaningless game. Uh, since the playoffs had been clinched, basically, I'm not going to fault him too much for that, but it clearly was a bad look when Devante Campbell did it for the San Francisco 49 as a walk to the locker room.
Um, in the middle of the third quarter, it was an unforgivable sin. And I think it's important for players to make sure that people understand they're not quitting on their team when they make such a move. It's important to understand that. I also think with Tyreek Hill, there's a level of responsibility and culpability he has to accept. Yes. You wanted your bag.
Um, and you got your bag by going to Miami, no crime there. This is football. You have a once in a lifetime opportunity to make the money that he's capable of making. Go for it.
Get all you can bear enough. The flip side to that, however, is that you departed from the Kansas city chiefs. You departed from somebody who's arguably considered the greatest quarterback to have ever lived in Patrick Mahomes. Even that wasn't bad because we all knew you went because of the money. But when you go to Miami and one of the first things out of your mouth, once you arrive is that to a tongue of a lower is going to be just as good if not better than Patrick Mahomes.
What nerve, how dare you say such a thing? How dare you even put him in the same sentence as Patrick Mahomes when he has yet to win a playoff game. That's just utterly ridiculous. And then Kansas city goes out and they went to super bowl back to back championships without you knowing all of that. And then now you want to leave and it coincides with you missing the playoffs for the first time in your nine year career. That's about you owning up to the fact that you made the wrong decision.
He doesn't do that. Instead, he points the finger at the organization and then he throws up this old cliche about having to do what's best for your family. What's your family got to do with this? You got your money, you got your bag. Now that has something to do with your family.
But once that is signed, that contract signed on the dotted line, then you know that money's coming in. You've taken care of your family. So since you've taken care of your family by getting that bag, now it's about you. It's not about your family.
It's about you. And he's trying to make it about the dolphins and what they're not instead of making it about the fact that he should have regretted the decision he made to depart from Kansas city or at least own up to damn. I miss Kansas city.
I came here because I needed to make that money, but I miss Kansas city. He didn't neither. Instead he's pointing the finger at the organization instead of himself. And that's unfortunate.
And there's no death. There's frustration involved with that too, that he's had a quarterback who has been hurt a lot. He did have the incident with his car.
He had a, this has been a rough year for him. It's not what he wanted, but there is a maturity level for these players. And to leave the field in the middle of a game shows a great amount of immaturity.
Well, immaturity as well. And I'm glad you brought up the incident with the police. The police clearly roughed him up a little bit.
That was completely unnecessary and on call for on their part. However, as a black man, when the cops pull you over and they tell you to roll down your window, you roll down your damn window. When they tell you to get out the vehicle, you get out the vehicle. You don't sit up there and say you on the phone, wait, calm down and all of this other stuff. They're law enforcement, not you.
The first order of business is to make sure that you obey the law. Now, if your life's in danger, that's a different animal altogether. You kept your window rolled up. You got on the phone and called your agent Drew Rosenhouse and you swore up and down. You did nothing to warrant the police reacting the way that you did. Well, let me tell you one of the first signs to agitate a police officer. If a police officer walks up to you, even before you flagrantly question his authority or ignore his authority, one of the ways to get yourself in trouble with a police officer is by keeping your windows rolled up because who's to say what's behind those windows. Thank God the police officer didn't pull out his gun because he didn't know it was Tyreek Hill and he feared that he could be in danger because you had your window rolled up. The first order of business you're supposed to do when the police officer pulls you over is roll all your windows down and put your hand on the steering wheel. First order of business.
You don't even reach into your pocket or your glove compartment until you inform them that's what you're going to do because you don't know how they can react. And I'm just thankful he didn't get himself shot. It's a very sad commentary, but it's true. But it is, I think that as we look at his year and as a whole, it definitely plays into, as I said again, a lack of maturity, but understanding that a frustration did build up over the course of the year and we can't, I can't get into his head. I can only opine from my seat as to what I see with him.
Well, let's call it what it is. He's frustrated because he's going to be home watching the playoffs while Kansas City is the number one team in the National Football League, the number one seed in the AFC, the reigning defending two-time Super Bowl back-to-back Super Bowl champions. They've won three in the last four years, but back-to-back Super Bowl, the reigning back-to-back Super Bowl champions, that's the team he departed. This team led the league and dropped passes last year and still won the Super Bowl. Imagine what they would have done if they had Tyreek Hill.
He would have had three rings instead of one. And so he looked at it all wrong. I'm not saying he was wrong to leave to go get his money, but at least put yourself in a position where you could ultimately come back. He didn't do that. And that's what he's doing. He's frustrated because he's sitting at home watching the playoffs while they'll be playing. I will simply add that it did not surprise me to see Tyreek do what he did when he walked out simply for this reason.
And I'm not suggesting it's right. My experience during my decades in the league, wide receivers are a different breed. Wide receivers are... I'm trying to look for a diplomatic word to say diva, but I'm just going to say it. That's it.
That's perfect. Prima donnas. That was my experience. Whenever there was an issue, wide receivers. Wide receivers come on my shows and call themselves that all the time. There's no shame in calling them that because you're out there running routes all day. You're running routes all day long. And you might get three passes thrown in your direction or four. You want to eat, figuratively speaking.
You want the ball. So we understand that. We understand they're justified in feeling that way to some degree. Feeling a certain way is one thing. Handling it as unprofessionally as some of them have in the past. Not most, not all, but some of them.
Yeah, that's unacceptable. But you know who, one sec, you know who was not a prima donna? Jerry Rice was never, ever, ever a prima donna.
That's true, but let's stop peddling him with roses in this sense. Jerry Rice is universally recognized as the greatest receiver in the history of football. No one ever doubted that. So if you are a wide receiver, you clamor for recognition. There was never any shortage of it for Jerry Rice, not just because of his greatness, but the greatness of the quarterbacks throwing him the football, which would happen to be Joe Montana and Steve Young. And so because we know that to be the reality, that's where you look at him and say, hey, we get it. He was class personified.
He was phenomenal, but it was easier for him to be that way because very little scrutiny came in his direction because his greatness was universally appreciated. I'm going to use this pivot to artfully turn to the Cowboys because of course my favorite diva wide receiver is also my daughter's godfather in Michael Irvin. What do you think is happening right now with Mike McCarthy and Jerry as we look at the deadline a week away?
We know the Bears are interested in talking to McCarthy, but what do you think is going to be the end of this story in Dallas? I think that Jerry, my buddy Jerry Jones, he's a man that I respect and I, and I have a lot of love for genuinely. Um, but I think that he's lost a step. I've watched him give quotes this year, quotes that made no sense. I've watched him say things that were clearly ill-advised. I've watched him explain some of the business decisions that he has made that make no sense.
It's just not good business sense. And I've watched him on several occasions get in his own way. Derek Henry was not what we needed. He would not have been here what he is in Baltimore. You have an opportunity to get a guy that is a monster, a man amongst boys playing for Tennessee all of these years, who works out in Dallas and lives in Dallas in the off season, who made it very, very clear. He wanted to be a Dallas Cowboy. And on top of all of that is available for six to eight million dollars.
And you don't get them working right there in your backyard. You wait to sign Dak Prescott and CeeDee Lamb. And by waiting, it cost additional 20 to 25 million on your cap because had you signed them at an earlier date, it would have been less, but it gave you ample amount of money, not just to get Derek Henry, but possibly Saquon Barkley.
You didn't do it. And you're trying to explain a way that it didn't work for you, that you didn't need it when your running backs was Rico Dowdle and Ezekiel Elliott. See, these are the kind of things that make no sense. And then you come with Mike McCarthy and here you are saying, let him talk.
We want people that want to be here. Well, he's your head coach. And if you don't want him to go anywhere, you could re-sign him or give him an extension right now. Instead, you're playing games and you're letting them go out on the open market to see why would you treat your head coach like that? I'm not saying keep McCarthy. I'm not saying let him go. I'm saying whatever decision you make, make it.
Just make it. What's the hesitation for? You know why?
Because it's going to give you extra days in the headlines. I mean, it makes no sense. And so you look at all of these things from a Jerry Jones and you're saying, what the hell is going on here? In the end, I think that Mike McCarthy will likely end up staying. I don't think he certainly, I certainly don't think he's the right coach for the Chicago Bears. Dak Prescott has been hurt 31% of the time over the last four or five years or so that Mike McCarthy has been the head coach. And Dak Prescott's first four years in the league, when he made a grand total of $4.9 million, he didn't miss a single game ever since McCarthy arrived. And he's gotten about $243.7 million over this span. Dak Prescott has missed 26 games. He's missed 31% of his games. And still in all, you had back to back to back 12 and 5 seasons prior to this year, which is the worst of Mike McCarthy's career, finishing 7 and 10.
But Dak Prescott got hurt nearly halfway through the season. So I'm looking at all of those things and I'm saying, I don't think he deserves to be fired, but I do think that the Cowboys should have hired Bill Belichick. And since they passed up on that opportunity, you might as well keep them. And if you might as well keep them, what's the procrastination about?
Just go ahead and keep them. What would you do if you were the GM down there, if you were sitting next to Jerry? I'd tell him to retain Mike McCarthy. I'd tell him to retain him. I said, look, who's better out there? Who's better out there?
Unless you feel like you need a young, fresher, you know, vibrant mind, but here's the problem. Offense hasn't been your problem. Kellen Moore was there. You had the second ranked offense. You let him walk away to the Chargers before he ended up as being offensive coordinator in Philadelphia. Mike McCarthy's here. You know, Quinn was your defensive coordinator. You had an opportunity to have him as your head coach. You could have got rid of McCarthy. You kept McCarthy. You let Quinn go to Washington and he's got the commanders in the playoffs, but you're home.
Kellen Moore's got the Eagles offense, you know, clicking, and they're in the postseason as the number two seed in the NFC. So you just look at some of the decisions that Jerry Jones has made and it clearly hasn't been his finest year as the president and the GM and the owner for the Dallas Cowboys. There's no denying that.
You have fun trolling. God knows our son Cooper loves your videos more than anything in the world having fun with that, but you can hear in your voice that there's concern as to where this team is going. And, you know, it's funny because you being a guy from New York and with your influence in Philadelphia, we know where your love is in loss, but it just seems to me that someone needs to step in there and I don't know who it is, whether it's Steven, whether it's a different member of the family, what have you, but to try to explain, like Amy was saying, as we started this podcast, people are questioning, does he really want to win? Yes, he does. The guy wants to win. I just think that there's no question about it. I worked with Jerry and Charlotte and Jerry Jr. and Steven and throughout my years in the league when we were there together, they want to win. No one should question that.
Well, I agree with you. They want to win, but you're damn right. Everybody should question it because the results, you haven't won a Super Bowl championship in 29 years. And there have been several times when you've had a roster to compete for a Super Bowl championship.
You haven't even been to an NFC championship game in 29 years. And you have an owner who is also the president, who is also the GM. And I understand he's Jerry Jones. And I understand that's your daddy. Y'all don't have any influence?
None? You can't have a conversation with him like, dad, what are you doing? Dad, I don't think it was wise for you to say that. Dad, could you let somebody else speak in front of that camera instead of you?
Take a week off. Let's think about what we're doing here. Come on, dad.
I love you. Dad, what can we do? But it almost seems like the kids are more concerned about themselves and their own individual welfare and that of their papa because you're letting him go out there and say it. And I've said this on national television and I'll say it to you guys right now. I brought up President Joe Biden because I was one of the first that opened my mouth and said, I saw slippage. This is a year before, more than a year before the election and almost a year before his awful debate and performance, June 27th against Donald Trump. And I said, he can't be the president for the next four years.
I can tell y'all that right now. There's slippage there. You know, everybody that age ain't, ain't slipped like that, but he has.
And I said, that's how I felt. And one of the things that people were saying in the aftermath of his poor performance during the debate and ultimately stepping aside as the Democratic nominee for the presidency of the United States before that was handed to Vice President Kamala Harris, if his son Bo were alive, none of that stuff would have happened. It wouldn't have been allowed for his father to show up to that debate. It wouldn't have been allowed for people to be exposing him one minute, disguising him the next or whatever. If anybody could have convinced Pops to step away, to not expose himself to these things, it would have been Bo. Obviously, not Hunter, but because Bo had passed away, they couldn't do that. I often bring that up because I'm asking about Steven and others. Where are y'all when it comes to Jerry Jones?
I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to imply that Jerry Jones is, is bad and has lost that much of a step compared to President Joe Biden. I'm simply making the point that where's the protection for the dad. Where's the protection where you have the influence to get in his face and say, you're not doing this. I'm not going to let you do this. I'm your son.
I'm your daughter. I love you. This is not happening. Where are those people? I don't see it. I don't see any of those things that are going on right now.
And that concerns me. Well, and just to make sure I'm clear that when I said, I know that they want to win, that is not mutually inconsistent with what you pointed out, of course, Steven, which is that irrespective of whether they want to win, they have not won at all in a very long time. I don't know what those conversations are behind the scenes.
I don't know what Jerry Jr. or Steven or Charlotte are saying. But to be clear, I know they want to win, but you are absolutely right. They're not making decisions that are winning in the long run. Let me just say, it's not even about making decisions.
It's not stopping him from making certain decisions like making the decision to talk to the local radio host and sound the way that he sounds or being in the media after a game and sounding the way he sounds. Nobody's standing there with him. You're just going to leave him standing there and subject to say anything he wants.
And there's nobody. You don't have, you're his child and you don't have enough of an impact to say this media is over. The session's over.
My dad's not talking anymore. We'll catch y'all tomorrow. No, we're not doing this.
No, we're not doing that. I don't care how much he's going to get at you. I don't care how much he's going to get in your face.
I don't care how much he might love, he might bark at you or whatever. Listen, my mother, I'll tell you this story. This is real quick, right? My mother, God rest her soul, she passed away from cancer in 2017. I give you on a less lighter, far more innocuous note.
My uncle in around 2005, 2006 was in the hospital and he was dying of cancer himself. And my mother came up there, she had on some kind of outfit ladies and, you know, she came up there to see her brother or whatever. And I came up there, right? And my mother was in a rush or whatever. And she always prided herself and taking care of her hair or whatever, but this time she was rushing.
So she put on some wig or whatever, whatever she did. And I walked into the hospital and I said, Hey mom, how are you? In front of my sister, she said, Hey, Steven, I said, Hey, the car service waiting for you. I said, get on the car service, go home, get dressed and get yourself right.
And come back cause her to bring you back. My mother's not going to be out here looking like this. My mother was appalled. She was like, who do you think you are? I said, uh, you're a son. That's who I am. And there's a certain way that, you know, you don't want to be looking.
You're not doing that. Another time she might've had to go to work. She sat up there and she said, she went on a cruise. She went on a cruise ladies.
And I know you both can appreciate this. My mother went on a cruise when she was going through her cancer treatment and she was skipping a chemotherapy session for a week. Guess who caught the boat and got the captain on the phone and stopped the boat from leaving until I got there.
That was me. Good for you. You're not going on the cruise. You can go on another cruise. You got chemotherapy to get on.
This is what you're going to do. My mother was not happy. She was very furious.
She was looking forward to it. It cost me a pretty penny cause I'm the one who paid for the cruise. I did not care. I am your son. I am not some, some subordinate or coworker. I'm your son.
I'm going to look out for what's best for you. Not what you want. Where are those people at in Jerry Jones life?
That's what I'm saying. You know what? Putting the Cowboys aside for one minute that you got that boat captain on the phone or that boat company on the phone and you got that boat. And he was scared.
He was scared too. Carnival cruise lines, got him on the phone, got him on the phone, and stopped the boat from docking off. My mother's not going. Don't make me get y'all. Don't make me meet y'all in a different city. First place you dock.
I'll be there. Get my mother off the boat. And I went and got her. I mean, I love that.
You're not doing that. I mean, I've always loved you, but, but I might even live here. Meanwhile, my Nana passed away at 102 and she didn't go a day without red lipstick in her hair done. So I'm just saying like, there's a lot of discipline. Last question before I leave you. And before Amy leaves you, this is about discipline.
This is about family. So it's gotta be about the Dallas Cowboys. Then it's gotta be about Deion Sanders. He says he's staying in Colorado. Do you really believe that if the NFL comes calling and God wouldn't, he looked really, really nice going back to Dallas, but do you believe that he will stay put? I don't believe him. I don't believe him. I've often said, and I've said this to Deion Sanders, who's been a friend for decades. I love him dearly. I love him like a brother. And I've said to him, you're so big time as prime time. We're almost allergic to seeing you in the daytime. That's how big time you are.
When we think about you, we think about bright lights because that's what he personifies. That doesn't vibe and coincide with Boulder, Colorado. I'm sorry. It just doesn't. Now you want to remain as loyal as you possibly can to them. They gave you your shot. You, excuse me, you were coaching at an HBCU Jackson State and they brought you to the Pac-12. Pac-12. You understand? And now you, you, you know, you're in the big 12.
No doubt about it. You owe a debt of gratitude to that university and you might not want to leave for something else. I wouldn't advise them to leave for Florida State. They had their chance to get them. They passed.
Okay. If it's not an SEC team, I thought a Texas A&M should have looked at them. I thought a team like that, you know, Alabama, even though I knew that would never happen.
Something like that. Florida, you know, you should look at him. If you decide to make a change, all true. That's SEC. You get that part.
But outside of that, it's gotta be the NFL. And I don't know how prime time could pass up a shot to coach the Dallas Cowboys. That's what I am saying. I can't imagine, I can't imagine that he would do that. Now, I think that Jerry would be very hesitant and here's why Jerry wouldn't do it.
It's not because of inexperience. It's because prime time is every bit as box office as Jerry, if not more so. And so when he speaks, he's going to command a level of tension in front of that microphone that Jerry Jones could, could, you know, has to rival that would have trouble rivaling. And that's not what Jerry wants, but it would obviously be the right decision for Jerry to make.
Because when you're talking about prime time coaching the Dallas Cowboys, well, sizzle and headlines make you money. That would be from a business standpoint, an absolutely brilliant move by Jerry Jones. But what if Dion turns his team around and they get to an NFC championship game and they end up winning the super bowl, then he'd get the credit, not Jerry. And if Jerry has proven anything else is that that credit means a lot to him. That's where he's at.
That's what he stands on. And that's very, very problematic for the Dallas Cowboys. When you look at their future, if anything, that's the ultimate indictment against Mike McCarthy, because to coach the Dallas Cowboys in most instances, certainly not with Bill Parcell, certainly not with Jimmy Johnson, but in practically every other decision, the situation, Wade Phillips, Jason Garrett, Chan, Gailey, others. The perception is that Jerry Jones wants a yes, man, as a head coach. And we know that ain't going to be prime time, but clearly that was something Mike McCarthy was willing to be.
And that ultimately hurts him in the end. And can't you see Dion walking into Jerry's office and putting his hands on his shoulders, looking him in the face saying, you brought me here. Let me take care of the cameras. You're absolutely right. Yes. Yeah. And Jerry wouldn't want that.
But the sad part about it is that I think that that prime time Dion Sanders has a better chance of pulling that off than his own children. I agree. That's exactly right. Steven, thank you for your time. He really gave us a lot of it and we appreciate it every single time you answer my call. No problem.
I really appreciate it. Y'all take care. All the best to y'all. Happy new year.
Happy new year to you. All right. Bye-bye.
Wow. That was an incredible conversation with Steven A. Smith. I hope that you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed actually having it. And I want to thank you all for taking in this first edition of 2025. What the football Amy, so good to be with you again. It's nice to be in the same room as you and wow. That was quite a conversation.
That was something I hope you guys really enjoyed it. We will see you again, right in these chairs next week. with us. Overreaction Monday. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. It's game over. Over.
