What The Football w/Suzy Shuster & Amy Trask: Daniel Jeremiah

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Learn more at AmericanExpress.com slash Amex Business. Hey everybody, Susie and Amy back with you for another edition of What the Football. Daniel Jeremiah will be joining us shortly. Love having him on to unpack everything from the draft that's coming up to the combine, but also his experience with the Chargers. He's been with the Chargers for years, Amy, calling these games, but now he's finally seeing them clicking with Jim Harbaugh. And we're seeing this relationship that's enveloping with him and Justin Herbert. We really seen a much more confident quarterback this year because Jim does what the best coaches do.

He best positions players to be their best. I work with Jim in Oakland. Jim's success since he left the Raiders when I was there is not a surprise to me. And you said it earlier, we're not surprised when we see strong defenses with Jim Harbaugh because everywhere he goes, we see strong defenses. But obviously his experience as a quarterback in college, obviously we know where in college, but also playing in the NFL, he can relate. And I think most people, they see this guy on the sidelines, they see the Dockers, they've gotten to know who he is, but they don't know what kind of lunatic he is. And I say that in the best of ways as a person.

And I think that I've been able to experience it with our relationship with the Harbaugh's and I've been lucky enough to see that firsthand, but we're seeing that with the comfortability of the entire team with him at the helm. And what you see in Jim is real and sincere. That's who he is. It's not performative. And you're right.

Sometimes being a little bit of a lunatic is a great thing. Yeah, it's just up. I mean, he's just an up guy and his players play for him. We've seen that across the league this year, more almost than ever. Maybe it's always been like that, but you see that with, I'll make the comparison to Chicago. You see players who want to play for their coach and we're seeing that with the Chargers right now. Obviously we saw what happened in Chicago with a lot of players just kind of giving up and maybe feeling frustrated with their coach. Whereas the Chargers are rising to the occasion and getting that much better, obviously a lot more of an experienced quarterback in Herbert. But it's so clear when a guy comes in like Jim Harbaugh and changes the dynamic of a team, all the players want to do is rally around him and get that much better. And there should be a lot of teams that are very disappointed in themselves that they didn't pursue him more.

Yeah, no kidding. Daniel Jeremiah is a great guest for us because he's there to watch it firsthand. He's also been able to see a lot of teams across the league firsthand and I'll be curious to hear from him who he thinks are amongst the best. And then as we look ahead towards the combine and towards the Heisman, of course, the Heisman will be announced on the 14th. The nominees will come out on the 9th.

The finalists looks like it's Travis Hunter's to win, but who knows? But he's just a perfect person to ask all of these questions. And as promised, the birthday boy himself, Daniel Jeremiah joins us now on What's Football. Happy birthday in advance.

I appreciate that. There's no better way to enjoy a kind of, I said, I argued meaningless 47th birthday. You both pushed back on that before we started here, but there's no better way to celebrate an odd numbered birthday than with you two. Well, and you know, I would sing happy birthday to you, but if there's any way to lose podcast listeners, it would be me singing. So out of great love and respect for Susie, I won't sing to you. And Amy is working on her first glass of champagne for this one, so we'll toast in your honor. Here we go.

Happy birthday. By the way, do you guys ever think about the fact that all you need for a bad take is to keep it right at 30 seconds? Because then you just push the fast forward button twice and then they just pick right up and you get to your good stuff.

I have no idea what that meant. If you're listening to a podcast, if you want to jump ahead, it goes 15 seconds at a time. So if you have like, if you were going to sing happy birthday, as long as you kept it precisely 30 seconds, if somebody didn't want to take in that song, they just push the button twice and then you're on with the rest of the show. This is the kind of knowledge that we look forward to from you, Daniel. Also, this is another evidence that he's under 50 and we're over because we're both like, what? What do you mean there's a 15 second button? Again, like my kids have to do stuff for me on the phone and computer. So like you, I just tuned out.

When you said that, you might as well be talking about like, you know, heavy legged wastebenders because I just basically just tuned out. For business owners like you, the American Express Business Platinum Card works just as hard as you do to help you pursue your passions. With its world-class business and travel benefits, you can get more for your business wherever it takes you. The Amex Business Platinum Card offers a flexible spending limit that adapts with your business, enabling you to flex and adapt as your business evolves. And you'll earn five times membership rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels booked on Amextravel.com so that going that extra mile for your business is even more rewarding. See how the Amex Business Platinum Card gives business owners like you the tools and rewards to do more of what you love. Not all purchases will be approved. Terms apply.

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Again, create an account. Redeem my code E-I-S-E-N. Boom, $20 off. Download game time today. What time is it? Game time. For those of us out here who are actually listening and really want to hear what you have to say, let's get to it, guys. Because we can bullshit all day, but we have football to discuss, so there you go. Harbaugh, what's your favorite thing about him since he's come to the Chargers?

My favorite thing about him is getting a chance to see him behind the scenes and not what necessarily everybody else gets to see. And my first example of that was one of the early road games. I went down to the meal room at the hotel and I went to get a coffee or something. There wasn't many people in there, but it was Joey Bosa sitting at a table with Jim Harbaugh. And so I hang out down there for a little bit, visit with some people. I go back upstairs. I come back down maybe 30 minutes later, maybe grab a water or something. I want something out of there.

And they're still sitting there and they're just kind of finishing up. And Joey gets up to leave and puts his hand on his shoulder and said, Coach, I always love talking with you, coach, and got up and left. And I thought this is such a small thing, but people talk about discipline and the toughness and the teaching.

I'm like, you know what? Jim Harbaugh is a relational master. You connect with people one on one. And I've seen him do that with so many different players on this team and not just star players, all pro players like Joey Bosa. It could be somebody that they just signed, but he has a unique way of being able to make connection with players. And I think that's I think that's kind of the secret sauce for why he's just won everywhere he's ever been. Oh, you are spot on in that analysis. And you stated it, of course, beautifully. That was the experience I had working with him in Oakland.

It did not matter what your role was, what your position was, what your responsibilities were. He would spend as much time with someone at the phones or manning the ticket office as he would with the star players. That's who he is.

Yeah, no, it's one hundred percent. And it's just all there's so much buy in and it's so much team oriented. And some of the stuff that I think you might see from the outside of, you know, hey, let's give guys high fives after games and singing.

He's a jolly good fellow. The next eye roll that I see from one of these guys is someone who's on the team playing, someone who's in the team meal room was on buses will be the first like it's because it's perceived as what it is. It's just genuine. It's authentic.

It's real. It's all about football. It's all about team. It's all about winning. And, you know, to say that he has buy in would probably be an understatement.

It's it's complete one thousand percent buy in. How specifically has he changed Justin Herbert in particular? Well, I think he's equipped him with some things to help him. You know, I know much was made in the off season about, you know, Mike Williams, Keenan Allen, Austin Eckler, they go all go out the door. But you go out and get Joe Alt to give them, in my opinion, as good a tackle pair that you have in the NFL.

Look, Rashawn Slater's awesome. Joe Alt's been excellent as the two tackle pieces. They go out and get a couple bigger backs.

Now, they haven't run it as well as they'd like, but they have they have stayed with running the football. So Justin's not having to be Superman in all these games. I feel like on an NFL schedule and Amy, you'd be great on this one, too, because you've seen over so many years and the teams you're a part of, I feel like the NFL, they put eight wins on your schedule every year. If you'll just go win them. Just don't don't be dumb. Don't turn the ball over. Don't bust assignments in the secondary. Don't blow protections and pass pro like there's eight wins out there.

Just take them. And he's done such a good job. Harbaugh has of kind of put that philosophy in place. And Justin's played that way. He has not turned the ball over.

He just won't do it. He's not going to lose you football games. And then there's the moments where you're going to have to be kind of Superman.

And that might be a moment this week against Kansas City Chiefs, where Justin has to do a little bit more and be a little bit more aggressive with the football. But man, you can win a lot of Clark Kent games along the way. Excellent.

Clark Kent reference. Nicely done, Daniel. Look, I've always believed that the very, very best coaches best position their players to be their best. Justin Herbert hasn't had that before in a coach.

I would say going back as far as college, but certainly not in the NFL. And Jim is doing just that. He's best positioning Justin to be his best. And what do you think he's doing to do that? I want to know, like what you're seeing, because you've obviously seen him progress.

Yeah, I think he's I think he's just taking the pressure off of him. You know, like I think Justin entered games going, I've got to throw for 400 yards. I got to be perfect. You know, I've got to hit all these big plays. Be dynamic. I've also got to use my legs and do these different things just for us to be competitive and win ballgames.

Now, Justin did it a bunch, you know, brought the team to the playoffs playing that way. But I think there's there's a freedom and a liberty of saying like, hey, it's not all on you here. We have a complete team. We have the best defenses in the NFL. We don't give up points.

We don't need you to do all that. And not only is that going to help us win games early in the season. You know, I'll be curious to see how this goes, because I in my opinion, my theory is as we get down these last handful of games, you're going to see Justin maybe do a little bit more as a runner and maybe be a little bit more involved and kind of use some of those physical tools a little bit more because they preserved him to get him to this part of the season and hopefully into the postseason as well.

But I think that was strategic. I think you see the same thing with Buffalo. I think Buffalo's had Josh Allen health wise limping into the postseason sometimes because so much had been put on his plate. And you've seen with him, they've pulled back a little bit. And now, as you're getting ready to come down the stretch run, I think you'll see Josh Allen unleashed as well. So, you know, I don't think Jim Harbaugh is the only one with some of these answers, but he's done a really good job of implementing them. Well, you opened up the field now.

So let's talk about it. Josh Allen. Do you is he your MVP candidate right now? I'd give the MVP to Saquon Barkley.

So that would be my choice. And I know, look, it's it is what it is. It's been a quarterback award and Josh Allen's having a fantastic year. You know, they've kind of reconstructed that team a little bit, lost some key pieces on defense. You lose Stefan Diggs and Josh Allen's not only held it together and they're playing as well as they ever have. So I don't want to take anything away from him, but I just that Philadelphia team, what Saquon Barkley's brought to them.

And just what a nightmare it is to defend with his addition into that offense. It's been so fun to watch. And I do think, hey, it's OK, you're not going to get arrested if you give that award to a non quarterback. I love it. I think it's such a great idea. And I love the fact that you said that he's so much fun to watch because I really agree.

Amy, I know you feel the same way. I agree that watching him, as you would say, is magnificent and he makes everything seem so simple out there. And, you know, I said this on the podcast last week, you know, Jason Kelsey retires and in the offensive line is performing marvelously for Saquon to make these opportunities. But watching him as a fan is just a blast. And, you know, Susie, that I am a big, big, big advocate of the running game and Saquon's obviously, I'll use it, Sus, magnificent.

And I love the fact that when he hears the chants of MVP, MVP, his responses, I like hearing that. But what's important is we win. And look, football's math.

It's 11 on 11. The better your running game, the better it's going to be for your quarterback. One of the quarterbacks two best friends is the running game because the better the running game, the more they have to defend the running back. And that opens up the passing game. The interesting thing about Philly is that you have a running back who can benefit the quarterback as a runner.

Right. And then you have it goes the other way as well. If you're Saquon Barkley, you benefit from every time Jalen Hurts hand you the ball and carries out his fake. I have to honor Jalen Hurts because he's going to pull it 10 times a game and we have to deal with him as a running back. That's why to me, it's one of the most fun offenses that I've had a chance to watch over the last, I don't know, decade. Because of all the different ways they can hit you.

It is legitimately 11 on 11. When you have a quarterback like Jalen Hurts who can run to compliment Saquon, you've got a physical offensive line. Howie Roseman bringing in Makai Becton and turn him into one of the best guards in the NFL is quite the story.

But they have weapons on the outside. They've got a big time tight end in Dallas Goddard. It's just it's a lot of fun. And as someone who was in the building at the Rose Bowl and watch Saquon Barkley in that game against USC and Sam Darnold, just run all over the field and make it look easy and make it look like it was the varsity kid who snuck his way into the JV game. He's found a way to do the same thing at the highest level.

It's incredible. Who's a better team? The Eagles or the Lions right now? I think they're the best two teams in the NFL and that's taking that away from the Chiefs. Anytime you say anything that's anti-Chiefs, you know in the back of your mind as it's making its way to your mouth, that they're going to win the Super Bowl and you'll just look like an idiot when it's all said and done. But in terms of talent and performance, I think those are the best two teams in the NFL. I think they're the most difficult teams to defend. I would say I would actually give the edge right now to the Eagles just because I believe in their defensive line a little bit more since Aiden Hutchinson got hurt. I think, you know, Detroit's played fantastic, but I think Philly has the better overall defense.

So I'll go with the Eagles. I want to follow up on something you said a minute ago, which is that, you know, Justin Herbert hasn't been too banged up yet. Josh Allen's a lot less banged up at this point in the season than he has been previously. As we look at these rookie quarterbacks who are getting banged up a lot, who do you see in this that this would maybe affect as we look at this rookie quarterback class?

We're going to ask you to unpack a lot about that, who you like, how they're performing, but also how these guys are absorbing the enormity of the NFL season physically. Yeah, I mean, look, Jayden Daniels has been beat up a little bit, and I think you saw his play kind of trickle down for a few weeks as he was trying to recover from that. Obviously, last week he was back and on the whole has been excellent, you know, throughout his rookie season. He's, you know, him hitting the ground running was not surprising to me. I thought he would enter into the NFL amongst all these quarterbacks with the best advantage of someone who had the combination of talent and experience and who was going to an offensive coordinator that made sense there with Cliff Kingsbury.

So to see him, you know, start with the lead in this race, so to speak, was not a surprise to me. I thought Caleb would struggle early on just because of the offensive line. And, you know, he was not as experienced as Jayden Daniels was coming in.

I felt like Jayden would start early, but I thought Caleb would eventually catch him. And while maybe he hasn't caught him, he's significantly closed that gap. Bo Nix has been just a perfect fit for Sean Payton. Everybody's talking about Drew Brees, but it's almost as if Drew Brees and Taysom Hill had a baby and then that was Bo Nix. And it's like he's coached both the parents and now he's getting a chance to coach the son with everything that he can bring to the table.

And that's just a perfect marriage. But if you're going to ask me of all these rookie quarterbacks what I've been most impressed by, I would say Drake May. He's got nothing. He's got nothing to work with. And the whole worry was we're going to ruin Drake May by putting him out there because of what we have around him.

And the exact opposite has happened. Drake May has gone in there and made everyone else around him better, which for a rookie quarterback, that's some rare stuff. So of all the fan bases, the one who I think should feel the most excited right now, it should be New England because of what he's doing with what he's with. I'm thrilled to hear that as a total Patriots homer, because I raise my hand that I was one of the people thinking, Oh God, you're going to kill the kid because you don't have a good enough line around him because he's got no one to throw to because the running game doesn't exist.

And because he got a freshman coach and I just thought, Jesus, they're going to murder that kid this year. And you're right. And it has been exciting watching him.

And at the same time, I just feel like there's still a degree of holding your breath when he's out there. Yeah, I again, this might be a podcast analogy that goes over your head and I'm going to show my age here. But if you listen to podcasts, you can listen to them on like a faster speed. So I'll listen to like my number is one point six.

I'll listen to audio podcasts at one point six. I've people have asked me, who does Drake May remind you of? And I said, it's Philip Rivers on one point six speed. So it's just it's just a little bit faster, twitchier version of Philip Rivers. That is a heck of a compliment.

It is. And yet he has a Patriots fan. I'm like, oh, you do realize that sitting next to me, she's now said Patriots fan three times. You heard that right, Daniel? But then I'm like, Philip Rivers. I mean, I guess so. But I want Brady.

Like, oh, don't, don't ever just win, baby. Oh, there you go. Yeah, I would have an unpopular take on that and say if Philip Rivers had played his entire career with with Bill Belichick, he might have some hard work. Agreed.

Agreed. I think, look, we face Philip Rivers twice a year for a lot of years. And that is a tremendous quarterback. Look, when you two are done chit chatting about the current rookie quarterbacks, I want to ask Daniel about next year's class of quarterbacks. Yeah, there's some interesting guys. I would use the word intriguing so far. I'm very early on in the in the process of getting into these guys and studying them.

But the the two that I think are going to be the most discussed and the you know, they're fun in different ways. Cam Ward from Miami, he is you know, he's he's like kind of the gunslinger. He's you know, he's a little under six to about 220 pounds. He's real sturdy, strong kid. He's got a big arm. He's played a lot of football as you know, he's played at three different schools.

But take Miami and make them competitive and have a really, really good year there. He's he's got one. You've got to rein in a little bit, but he's really, you know, athletic twitchy can make a lot of big time throws.

But there's some arrogance as a thrower at times where we can kind of reel that in, which given my druthers, I'd much rather be able to try and reel in an aggressive player than to try and stall aggressiveness in a passive player. So he's fun. And then should or Sanders and I've joked and told the told my boss, as you guys know him and Charlie and Charlie looked at the draft, it's get ready for the spring of Chidor. Like it's going to he's going to be the star of the draft. He's going to be the one that we're most asked about. It's intriguing, obviously, just because of, you know, his dad and the turnaround that they've executed there at the University of Colorado. But he is a pure pocket passer.

I mean, just a pure motion. He makes good decisions. He's accurate with the ball. I don't think he has an exceptional arm.

I don't think he's an exceptional athlete, but I think he's just above the line at almost across the board. And another one who I like the fact that he was at Jackson State. I like the fact that life gave him new challenges when he went to Colorado and they weren't good on the offensive line.

And he got the crud beat out of him. I like that he came back from that and and and and literally took this this offense and this team to heights it hasn't seen in quite some time. So he's he's an intriguing one. He's not quite as twitched up or as explosive a thrower as Cam Ward is, but maybe a little more dependable, reliable and a little bit less of that kind of arm arrogance that could show up a little bit with Cam Ward. So should a team that is drafting high who needs a quarter or which needs a quarterback be concerned about the coming draft? Is it a weak quarterback draft, as some have said, or do we not know that yet?

I don't know that definitively yet. I would say that last year at this point in the process, I was really I was really excited about a bunch of different players. And we saw that the way it, you know, the way it happened in that twenty four draft with all these quarterbacks going six. Right. Was it six of the first thirteen picks or something?

So it's not that it's not that I I don't think it's going to be a case where you have to completely talk yourself into somebody. I think the you know, those two particular and we'll get into Jackson Dart at Ole Miss and we'll see Carson Beck and Quinn Ewers haven't had as good a years as a lot of what hoped. But maybe they can kind of climb back into that conversation in the in the college football playoff with what they do.

But I I'll frame it this way. I was in Atlanta last week and I looked down on the field and saw Pennock's warming up. And from the early work that I've done on this year's quarterbacks, I was like, you know what? If I see Terry Fontenot walking around the stadium, the Falcons general manager, maybe I go, OK, I understand the Pennock's thing a little bit more now after I've dug into this group of quarterbacks. And, you know, Pennock's would stack up quite favorably.

All right. Cork, the draft for a second. You saw Pennock's. You saw Kirk. Do you think we're going to see more and more of Pennock's now? Well, the feeling before the game I got talking to folks around there was they want to really you know, they really want him to get a chance to sit for two years and get Kirk Cousins through.

You know, this next year he had them in first place. He was coming off a little bit of a rough game previously. I don't know if that changes when Kirk throws four picks, six and you lose the ballgame. It's like I don't want to overreact off one moment that I happen to be there for. But it's going to be a lot more tempting. You know, if if the performance is uneven, it's going to be very tempting to to see what you have there and want to open that Christmas present a little early. And that's interesting what you said about them wanting to perhaps to sit him for two years, because, as you know, with the CBA that was put in place.

Well, wow. When I was still in the league and it's still in place now, although it's been revised, it is much, much, much harder for a team to sit players. You know, we saw Aaron Rodgers sit behind Brett Favre. We've seen other quarterbacks sit and that's been to their benefit.

It's harder to do that under the current CBA. Yeah. No kidding.

What were people saying about Pennock's? There's excitement. There's genuine excitement. Just you can just see it when the way he throws the ball, the way the ball kind of jumps out of his hand. And by all accounts, he's you know, him and Kirk have got along well.

There's been no issues there that I heard anything about. So they're both and I know I've known Kirk Cousins for a long time. He is a he's a good dude. He's just a really solid, good dude.

Pennock's everything I've heard. I don't know him as well. I've not heard one bad thing about him.

So I think they're they're getting along fine. I think they're very excited about him. The challenge is going to be normally when you say, OK, we want to we want to be able to fully utilize the advantage of the rookie contract. We want to get the rookie out there, get him up to speed. Let's make some mistakes in the first year or two. And then we still can reap the benefits of your your cheap salary cap number for a couple of years before we have to do that big second deal. The challenge now is that literally Kirk's there. I mean, they've they've got big money invested in Kirk Cousins this year and next year. So that points at least to the initial plan, which was we want to give him a couple of years here.

And Jordan Love is probably the most recent example of that having paid off. I'm fascinated. If you talk about looking forward to the topic, you guys will have a lot of fun with what the heck are the Minnesota Vikings going to do? I mean, off season wise, that's the fascinating one to me. I mean, Sam Darnold's got them at ten and two.

He's playing really well. But you've got J.J. McCarthy, you know, obviously the injury took him off off their plans for this year. But going into the future, gosh, do we tag and keep Sam Darnold? Do we tag and trade Sam Darnold?

Do we just let Sam Darnold walk and just give J.J. the ball right now? You know, I looked up the numbers in Sam's season. There's actually a lot of similarities, not the win loss record, but statistically to Alex Smith in the Mahomes redshirt year, very similar with Alex Smith. And they still, even though they were, you know, a winning team and he was at sixty seven percent completions and four thousand yards around there for Alex Smith. And they just said, well, but we know what we have in Mahomes and he can take another this offense to another gear.

So thank you, Alex. And we're going to give this thing over to Mahomes year two. What are the Minnesota Vikings do next year? That's going to be a fascinating one. I mean, don't you think they're going to be tempted to see what J.J. can do? I mean, what do you what do you do there? That's crazy.

I don't know. I mean, Sam and much like Alex Smith. I mean, I think that's a similarity is that you have a team that's winning. The veterans love them with Alex Smith and with Sam Darnold. It's like, OK, I hope J.J. is good, but I don't know if he's good.

That to me comes down to the conviction. Andy Reid had that conviction that Mahomes was just a totally different animal. And we'll find out, I guess, in the off season if Kevin O'Connell feels like J.J. McCarthy is is capable of tapping into a gear that Sam doesn't have. And one thing Andy did and the Chiefs did that I thought they handled just tremendously well was they had a very direct conversation with Alex. And they said to him, look, Patrick is who we believe our quarterback of the future is. And because they were so forthright with him and so clear and so direct, Alex did everything he could to help Patrick come along. And, you know, perhaps the same can happen with Sam and J.J. Yeah. The only thing I would say is that Patrick's skill set is so like otherworldly that the players couldn't ignore that. And I like J.J. a lot.

And J.J.'s talented. But I don't know if we were to go down to the park and we were to watch Sam Darnold and J.J. McCarthy throw a football. If we would say, oh, my gosh, this guy's from another planet than that guy. I will meet you at the park and throw a football any time you want. Kids don't do that anymore, by the way. Golly, those are those are the fun days growing up. Right. I beg to differ. We do that a lot these days, especially because they go by themselves, starting by themselves. Yes, because our kids do. Our kids are like two of our three kids want to throw whatever ball they can find.

One of them just doesn't give a rat's ass. But our daughter, Taylor, is the starting quarterback this Thursday. I'm just I just want to step for you. Right. I love that. She's awesome. She's great because, you know, she's out there playing all the time. All right.

Back. Who's the best team you've seen this year? The best team that I've seen this year, you know, doing the Charger games in person. You know, I, I wouldn't I would say Kansas City is the best team that I've seen in person. But just watching video in terms of overall dominance, you know, I, I, I would go for me, Philadelphia, then Detroit. And I could I would not fight it if you were to flip those.

I would not fight it if you were to flip those. I think those two teams in the NFC are are the best two teams in football right now. And would you go Kansas City Buffalo in the AFC or do you have a different take?

No, I think that's I think that's fair. I, I, I still don't think the Ravens record matches their talent. I know, you know, Lamar, people have made things about the playoffs and maybe hasn't been at his best. I wouldn't want to play that team if you're the Houston Texans and you're the four seed and you're looking at the potentially the Baltimore Ravens, the Los Angeles Chargers or the Denver Broncos. I think all three of those teams would be favored over Houston in the playoffs. I think there's I think the wild cards in the in the AFC are going to chance to be very, very dangerous. Whereas I feel like in the NFC, those to me feel like even though Minnesota's record is really good, Green Bay's really good.

I feel like Detroit and Philly, whatever order you want to put them, I feel like there's a divider after those two. You know, it's funny you mentioned the Broncos and Bo Nix. We were laughing last night when he took off his helmet at the end of the game, talking to my friend Lisa Salters.

He looked like a 40 year old grizzled veteran. And Bo Nix, of course, being the last quarterback taken, the last rookie taken last year, I'm just curious about what you think of him. Well, I'm happy for him, first of all, because, you know, if for those that are in the southeast during his time at Auburn, he was a punching bag. I mean, they they blamed him for everything.

Anything that happened at Auburn that didn't go well, it was Bo Nix's fault. And he goes and goes to Oregon. And not only does he try and, you know, OK, let's hope he can recapture his confidence. He plays phenomenal there.

Excellent. There could have come out after one year, ends up going back for the second and plays even better. And then to see him, OK, he's taken all this. He's got all this knowledge, all this experience. He goes and plays in the Senior Bowl, which I think was his sixty third college game.

So grizzled is an appropriate word there for how much experience that he had. But then to go to Denver early on in the season was a little bit uneven. And people like, oh, you know, Sean Payton reached and, you know, he's trying to make Bo Nix something that he isn't. I heard a lot of it from people in the south, the Southeastern Conference fans, like, I knew it. He's the guy at Auburn. He's not the guy that we saw at Oregon. He's really the guy at Auburn. But he's he just pushed right through it and he's playing awesome. So I've got a chance to know him a little bit. Just a great kid.

You know, always positive, tons of energy. And I think Ozzie Newsome, this is something I learned from him, which was one of the great things to discover when you're evaluating players is to discover what their adversity was in their life, who they relied on and how they got through it and what the after effects were. And I think Bo Nix, what a poster child for having some adversity and some struggle, some struggles and some tough times and to come out on the other side a much better place. I think that's huge. What about Caleb?

What do you see in there? Because he was supposedly set up to succeed. And now we're seeing obviously some growing pains there as well. I still believe in the talent one thousand percent and you see it. And if you took the top 50 plays for all of these quarterbacks and put highlights together, you would still say, OK, Caleb's the best one. He just can do so many different things.

He's so gifted. And you're seeing that more, you know, since the coaching change, you're seeing it. You know, obviously there was a debacle at the end of the game that cost Eber Flus his job.

But I still think with all the different things he can do, he can expand your playbook more than any of these other quarterbacks. I just think when you say, OK, well, why didn't it work immediately? Well, their offensive line stinks.

I thought from the outside in that they had. And sometimes this can be a defensive head coach thing, but more so, you know, just a collective effort of don't screw up ism. Don't hey, don't do this. Don't do that. Don't turn it over. Don't don't don't make a mistake. It's a lot. Play on schedule.

Don't do this. And it's like you guys have paralyzed this guy. This was his superpower was to be able to be creative and make plays and be aggressive instead of having the mindset of like, hey, you're a rookie. We've got a great defense. If you if you are a little overaggressive and go across the line and we happen to make a mistake, that's fine.

Be be who you are. Our defense will pick it up and then and we'll be OK. Instead, it was like they just paralyzed them.

And that's why he was taking so many sacks. I'd be watching tape going, you're so athletic. There's nothing there. Get out, get out and go. And it's like, nope, I got this. I have to be a pocket passer. One, two, three, four.

He's not there. OK, don't turn it over. Don't turn it over. Sack. And it's like, gee, many Christmas. Just just put some freedom back in his game.

And that's what Thomas Brown has done. Let's talk O'Reilly Auto Parts, people. You love their jingle. You're going to love their friendly, helpful service even better because they're in the business of keeping your car on the road and the parts knowledge they have. It's all you need for your maintenance and repairs.

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That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash listen and use code listen at checkout. Well, it reminds me so much about another USC quarterback in Carson Palmer when Paul Hackett left and he had brought the Jets book with him to USC and Carson was just a mess. And when Pete Carroll came in, he liberated him and he gave him the confidence to try to be the best. Now, again, Caleb is a generational talent.

Carson was a wonderful quarterback, very different. But still, these guys sometimes are just so overwhelmed. And I think the difference with Bo Nix and Caleb Williams is, I mean, Sean Payton, you've got this veteran coach who knows how to handle young talent like this, even though we know he's not that young. But still, it just shows and underlines Amy, I think, yet again, the value of a great coach.

Right. I mean, the best coaches best position their players to be their best. And you can count on Sean Payton. He is going to best position his players to be their best and help bring them along. The other thing I'll add, because I agree with everything you both said about what's going on in Chicago, the coaching staff had absolutely no attention to detail. Look, it's one thing teams understand, and I will tell you this from the perspective of someone who is in a front office. You can understand when you lose a game because you don't match up well against your opponent. If there are holes on your roster, your corners can't match up against their receivers, your pass protection doesn't match up against their pass rush, and you lose, you understand that as a front office. What you don't understand is if there's holes in your coach's brain. Holes in the roster is one thing.

Holes in a brain is another. You've got to understand situational football. There's no excuse not to understand that. I think that's 100% right, and that's why I always think to me one of the dumber points of analysis is, who have you beaten analysis? No, that's good coaching. Good coaches don't lose to inferior teams. Everybody's going to run into somebody that's a little bit more talented than them, and you're going to just get physically beat.

That's going to happen. But to me, find the poor coaches or the guys who aren't doing it right way. I'll find you teams that are losing to bad teams. I'll find you teams that are giving games away with poor management and decision-making on the sideline.

I want to strip all that stuff away, and hopefully our guys match up well, and if they do, we've got a really good chance to win. That's good coaching. That's not all.

You have only beaten one team or two teams with a winning record. I've always chuckled at that. And you know what?

This might surprise you guys, Suzy. We were talking about this earlier. Al, who said, just win baby, was absolutely in agreement with this. I remember talking to him after games we lost, and he'd say, Kid, we just didn't have the matchups.

We couldn't win the matchups. And he would always test me when I was in his office as to time management, clock management, situational game understanding. And if a coach didn't know that, that was a problem.

Yeah, totally. I want to swing back to the draft, and I'm going to stop at the Heisman on the way. Oh, stop at the Heisman, will you? This is artful, Amy. This is just how you do it.

I wanted to say this is how you do it. Is this Travis Hunter's Heisman to win or lose? Should we just basically brand the trophy?

Should we engrave it already? I think he's going to win it. I think he's deserving to win it. I love Ashton Gente from Boise State.

I think, unfortunately, he's probably going to get, you know, he's going to get hit with the fact of where he is. I think if he has that same year at USC or Notre Dame or Miami, then he would have been a really, really good position to win this thing. But I just think what Travis Hunter is doing on both sides of the ball, it's so unique. And it's, you know, it is a Heisman winner and probably goes back to, you know, Desmond and Rocket, all these guys have those moments. He's had so many of those big moments of, you know, doing things on both sides of the ball within the same game. Yeah, I think he's, I think he's definitely going to want it. And we just saw a picture and he's basically striking the Heisman.

How do you see him being used in the NFL? I mean, can he possibly be a two-way player? Remember when we were kids and we'd say jinx? Yeah. I was just going to ask that.

So jinx, jinx. Your soda. My eight-year-old. I love that. I like him better as a receiver. I just think he impacts the game more as a receiver. And some of that is build and body type wise. He's, he's a, he's real thin.

He's in the 170 pound range. So holding up over the course of a long season at that size at corner, there's just not many corners who are, you know, with that particular frame or build. Not that you can't do it.

There's guys that have done it. Samari rolls one, you know, sauce Gardner, who has not played good this year, but is another one. But he's six foot three. He's a, he's a lot bigger guy. But I just look at his frame and the way he plays the game. And I, I compared him over the summer to Garrett Wilson. That's who reminded me of as a wide receiver. And I think he can impact the game there. He can impact it as a returner. I talked to a GM the other day who had the opposite take. He felt like I would make him a corner and I would let him, you know, moonlight a little bit on offense and just give him a package of plays.

But now that's how, how he saw him and how he would utilize them. So I think that'll be, be different from, from team to team of how you think he should be best used. But that's a, it's, it's pretty ridiculous when you think about it. This is the highest level of football. And there's a debate on whether or not you should be a top 10 pick at two different positions on different sides of the ball. That's pretty nuts. I mean, I can't imagine a player other than his own son that reflects Deion Sanders more than Travis Hunder.

Yeah, no. And you know, it's funny. I was thinking about this because we'll do a bunch of this at the combine. When, gosh, as you guys know, with, with Rich, we're going to be there a long time.

We're going to have tons of time to get into a lot of different topics. But you know who does not get brought up a lot in these discussions was Champ Bailey. Champ Bailey was awesome on both sides of the ball at Georgia.

He was somebody that I think probably could have been a full time receiver as well. So who will the first pick be? I think it's going to depend who's up there. There's like really nine terrible teams in the NFL right now. So there's a there's some variety of who could end up picking up there. I do find it, as you look at the list here, fascinating on a couple of these fronts like Jacksonville just paid Trevor. So they're committed their Patriots got their quarterback. I am so I might be more happy for Bryce Young than anybody else in the NFL with what he's done the last few weeks. And kind of recaptured some momentum there that he could keep that job.

So those three teams right there in the top five, if they end up with the first overall pick, they're not taking a quarterback. So, you know, there's there's a lot of different defensive lineman that I've had a chance to study and see the kid at Penn State is fantastic. He is an excellent, excellent player who's got tons of tons of burst, tons of pass rush ability. He's got some Von Miller type tools there and Abdul Carter.

So it's going to depend what you need. I don't think there's a slam dunk. OK, this is an Andrew Luck, Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence year where you're like, that's the you know, we all knew that months out ahead of time.

I don't think that's one of these drafts. Absolutely agree with you about Bryce. And I loved what he said after sitting for a bit, which is how much he appreciated and benefited from the time to do that. Now, Daniel, such a good kid, Amy.

It's so easy to root for him. Dead and buried. We're in a society now like you have two bad games as a 20, 21 year old kid and like, well, he can't play. Throw him aside. Who's next? I know.

I mean, for him, when I think about the things I could not do at 20 and 21. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Now, there was a team in that top five that we saw on the list on the graphic.

I'm not naming names here, but there is a team in that top five that could use a quarterback. What are your thoughts with respect to that? Because I think you're reading my mind. Yeah. No, I can tell what color jacket is that you're wearing.

Anyways. Yeah. No, that is one that is they need an identity right now on the offensive side of the ball. And they would be of those teams, I would say was most likely. I would say they would be the quarterback team that I would feel most confident about that. You know, hopefully there's one that they love, but it might be one of those situations where what do they say?

Like, if you're not with the one you love, love the one you're with type situation. Oh, that was that was well done. So I just feel like last year they were just on the outside. We had all those quarterbacks run off the board and they kind of missed out on that on that ride. I think they would have, you know, efforted at least to try and get up there for Jayden Daniels.

It wasn't able to happen. So there it's high time for them to to find their next guy. They can't run out there with the journeyman. They can't run out there with a late round pick anymore.

They've got to take a swing. And I feel like they're getting ready to step up to the plate. Daniel, for looking at the Giants and the Raiders, which team would be a better situation for a rookie quarterback if they trade up? I will say, oh, look, I would be more excited about the pieces that the Giants have on offense. You know, Brock Bowers has been awesome with the Raiders, but I'd say on the whole, if you're just going to look at the pieces, I would lean towards the Giants. But if you're saying, where would I rather go? I would I would put it to you this way.

In the last, let's say, I don't know, twenty five years, I would I would render a guess. Can you tell me another quarterback other than Eli Manning that's had a sustained run of success in the New York market? That's Giants and Jets.

That market chews up and spits out quarterbacks like it's nobody's business. So I would rather if if I was an agent and that was my client, I would rather go to Vegas. I'm also not confident. And that was a double negative. So let me state it differently. I think we might see changes, maybe a GM, maybe a head coach with the Giants. Now, I don't know that that's the case. But if I'm John Mara and I take a look at the Daniel Jones contract and losing Saquon and the team record, he might be thinking about making some changes.

And I thought you were going to say changes a coach with the Raiders. That's a good question. I don't know.

Get Tom Brady on the line. Which Tom gets to make that decision, Amy? Oh, wow.

Look what you just did there with the double entendre, Tom. Great question. Maybe both. Maybe they work together. I'm curious.

I'm curious on the outside looking in. There's going to be a bunch of openings, though. I mean, where they all are, I don't think we know yet, but just the sentiment and talking to buddies around the league.

There's a lot of people that are in the number two or number three personnel positions around the league that are polishing up their resumes. Let's just put it that way. No kidding.

No kidding. What haven't we talked about that you think that we're missing storyline wise? What's intriguing to you? The Padres blowing a 2-1 lead against the Dodgers is what we're not talking about. Still can't believe it. Unbelievable. The Red Sox getting Soto.

What else do you want to talk about? I don't know. Maybe. But I think they didn't. They also get a role as Chapman. They just signed a role as Chapman today. But I did see. So, Amy, tell me if you've ever done this before, because this is my sneaky suspicion.

I'm gonna bring this back to football. But there's so much chatter that the Red Sox are now the favorite for Soto that I almost feel this is a Scott Boris juicing this story up to scare the Yankees in the Mets. You're not suggesting an agent would do that now, are you?

But also, I almost wonder sometimes if the teams could be in cahoots and be like, hey, look, I'm Scott Boris and you're the GM for the Red Sox. I would go to you and say, hey, look, no, he's not going there. He doesn't want to go there. He's not going there. But we can do something mutually beneficial.

We can both drive this number up for your rival inside the division. He's going to probably end up there, but at least eat up some more of their money. And so maybe they can't do some other things. And I just wonder sometimes if teams can be complicit in some of the agentry stuff that goes on. I'd like to plead the fifth, your honor. That's not how Scott works, though. I'd like to plead the fifth as to these discussions of antitrust violations. And I'm being silly.

They're not antitrust violations. But I still would like to plead the fifth. When I did baseball for Fox, when I did Angels and Dodgers and what have you every night and sat next to Scott, I mean, I spent more time with Scott. This is going to sound wrong than I spent with Rich for three years. And by a long shot. And I watched him negotiate. I saw a lot of it and I covered a lot of it. He so doesn't go in cahoots with teams because he operates from such a higher point of power.

I mean, talk about a guy who is able to manipulate the different teams. But I love your idea. And I think I know half of you is just joking or not. But I know.

But like, go ahead. There's two there's two players or like I always I heard this is a joke that's gone around forever. And football circles is that the biggest mismatch in all of sports is not the Globetrotters and the and the generals was the generals, right? The Washington generals. It's actually Jimmy Sexton versus NCA athletic directors.

That is the biggest mismatch in sports. But like because Jimmy can kind of he owned he has every coach. So he can literally kind of place. I'm gonna take him here. Then he can go there and he can go there and Boris with his clientele. Like he can. OK, I have two offers for this guy.

But if he goes here, that also opens up this other spot for my other client who might go there. Like he is he can whether or not he does it or not. He has the power to be kind of a puppet master in this whole thing. No, I mean, I watched it with A-Rod firsthand. In fact, the first time I ever came across Scott was in 1997 or eight, I think. Was that A-Rod's first year when he was with the Mariners? And I remember being sent by ESPN to go do a feature on the marketing of the Mariners because it was it was and he was so fresh. A-Rod was there and it was Randy Johnson and Ken Griffey. And they became the darling of baseball. And I remember Scott being very careful about A-Rod's then girlfriend, future wife, future ex-wife to be behind the scenes, because he didn't want to get in the way of A-Rod being seen as a sex symbol. I mean, he he literally choreographed so much of it.

And I watched him again, like even like I mean, even like Darren Dreyford, even watching some of those other negotiations. That's a great poll on that name. Listen, come on. Because because you were so kind to join us today and because it's almost your birthday, I'm not going to respond to your Padre Dodgers comment because I am a big Dodgers fan. Oh, my God. You are right. Oh, I grew up a Dodgers fan.

Grandma was a Dodgers fan. OK, OK. I'll give you you got you've had longevity there because I'll give you that. There's so many Johnny come lately, though.

I'm not one of those. I was I was I shared this on Rich Eisen Show. I was there when Kirk Gibson hit that home run.

Were you really? Joe Torrey gave Al Davis two tickets to the game. Al gave him to me. We're sitting there. We're sitting there. Eckersley comes out on the mound. Kirk Gibson comes out dragging one leg behind the other. And I turn to my husband and I say, and this is a quote, is this Eckersley guy any good?

And he tells me the best. And then kaboom with that home run. I did love his windup, though. That was a great windup. Yeah, true.

Great hair, too. Yes. I mean, there's nothing quite like the party in the back. I mean, we can go down a Dennis.

Like this could be a long one. And I love the fact that we've gone baseball because now you're going back into my old wheelhouse. This makes me very happy. I love baseball. This is what I do.

My this is my whole spring is I'm listening to MLB podcasts or like serious MLB radio while I'm watching draft players for you. You're wrecking Rich's fantasy of you doing nothing but watching film when Rich hears this. We won't tell you. Well, no. Does he listen to us? Who knows?

I don't know. I just live with him. My husband listens to every word. Your husband is so great. And he's our best critic because he loves everything we do.

But which I love that about him. But no, I mean, Rich envisions you in the off season, sitting like in a in some kind of FBI sealed cell where all all you do is maybe have food slid under the door and you're just watching video after video of, you know, offensive linemen and what have you, and that you are interrupting your preparation for your seventy five thousand straight hours with Rich at the combine, listening to baseball podcast. This is so I'm still watching multitasking.

Susie, I'm just I'm multitasking here. Now, I will say the other thing that my other habit that I have is if I get in a lull where I'm starting to get tired and offensive linemen, as you mentioned, we're just talking about, that's probably one of those positions where when you've spent three straight days watching nothing but guards, it can get a little tedious. So I'm I like to go outside in the driveway and shoot some hoops for like 15, 20 minutes. It kind of gets the blood flowing and I get back in and get back to work. Maybe that's maybe it is like a prison. Maybe that's my yard time.

That's what it is. And then you're going to lift some weights and you're going to pick up some garbage on the side of the road. Actually, I mean, I actually love offensive linemen because I think they're the smartest guys in the field. And so I would always seek out when I was doing college football. I'd always sit down and talk to the offensive linemen because they were the guys that actually were smart enough to get into some of these schools and they ran everything.

Hold on before we go. But I will say most games are won or lost at the line of scrimmage. True, but they're the smartest guys. They're the guys out there protecting the quarterback. I always told agents that if I was ever an agent, I would only represent offensive linemen. They just feel like they'd be like the lowest maintenance guys. 100%.

100%. Before we let you go, besides what the football, what do you listen to for podcasts? I'm curious.

So all the smart lists is always, I mean, I'm not alone there. I love listening to the banter with those guys. They're great. I will listen to, gosh, like I mentioned, a bunch of different baseball podcasts. Our friend Chris Rose has a couple different podcasts that I'll listen to. The Rose Rotation. I think Baseball Today is the name of his other one. So I'll listen to those.

And then, gosh, what else? You know, I'll stumble across some series. Like there was one on the MTV, on the birth and kind of death of MTV, which was fascinating because it was kind of like going back through my childhood. For when I don't listen to Move the Sticks, that's DJ's own podcast, I will give you one to listen to that I love, which is The Rest is History. It's these two crazy British guys and they dissect all these different moments in history. And of course, for me, anything with a British accent is better and more erudite. And it's the most fun podcast to listen to.

Aside from ours, of course. You guys don't do the murder podcast stuff, do you? I don't do murder. True crime.

I don't get that whole thing. I want to be entertained. I want to hear about all this gruesome murder. Okay, I'm kind of into serial killer stuff. See, I just can't do it.

But you don't get nightmares or anything? Oh, of course I do. And let me tell you something. If ever someone is supposed to be somewhere at a certain time and they're not, I don't think, oh, they're running late. I think, oh my God, a serial killer got them. I need to call the FBI. See, and I'm usually late, so I'm not worried about them being late because I think it's offensive when people are late and then I'm late.

And then if you're ever late for this podcast, I will call the FBI because clearly you've been abducted. Well, there's a good chance. And in like a Target parking lot. Right.

Or I'm just stuck at the line at Randy's Donuts trying to bring donuts to the center here. Hey Daniel, one thing about the Chargers. Wonderful what they're doing this coming week, which is it's called Pet Law, and the L is for L-A, Palooza. And I've shared this on X and I've shared this on Blue Sky. Love what the team with which you're associated is doing to help with rescuing animals. Yeah, it's really cool.

I didn't even know that they actually did that. I just know that there's an animal culture with this organization. I love it. So it's been pretty cool. You'll see dogs at the stadium. You'll see dogs around the practice facility.

So that does not surprise me that they would make an investment in that. It's very, very cool. Daniel Nye, you've really made my day.

Thanks again for your time. We went really long, but we so appreciate it. And you're such a fountain of information and we just really appreciate you making the time for us.

Really, truly, truly. It's always fun. I hope you guys have a wonderful rest of the week and happy holiday season. Happy birthday to you. Should I sing one week?

No, I guess not. Please don't. Okay, I guess I'm not singing. Happy birthday. All right. Thank you guys.

Bye-bye. Our thanks again to Daniel. He is amazing. Listen to Move the Sticks podcast.

It is a wealth of information each and every time. Andrew Whitworth, as promised, will be with us next week. And you know, guys, it's like a fluid thing here as we book people to be on this show. But, Aim, I love this one and look forward to coming back next week and sitting down with Andrew. So much fun with Daniel and it's going to be fun with Andrew. And you know what? We have fun every week.

We do. And I like you much better when you're drinking. It's just fantastic.

I'm going to keep buying the bottles on the way in. I am a little more relaxed. Yeah, you are. It's better.

It's a better listen. Aim, you're a pleasure to be around all the time, but I like you a little bit sauced. So I would invite you to open up your bottle on the way to listening to What the Football podcast. We really appreciate the time that you spend with us. Send us your questions. We do have an Insta handle, which I will screw up. What is it?

It's like at WT football podcast at WT football podcast. Nicely done. And that's on Instagram. Wow. That's very under 50 of you. Well done. Well done. Thanks again for taking in this edition of What the Football.