What The Football w/Suzy Shuster & Amy Trask: Dan Patrick

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Not available in all states or situations. Hey everybody, welcome to this edition of What the Football. Dan Patrick will join us shortly.

Always happy to have DP on with us. And as we're taping this on a Tuesday, Shane Waldron was fired. Offensive Coordinator off course of the Bears. And Thomas Brown gets elevated to Offensive Coordinator and the question will be will this fix anything for the 4 and 5 Bears and for Caleb Williams? And we were talking about this before about how do you bring out the best in a young player with very little experience, no experience in the NFL.

That's what a rookie is. And I'm curious about your thoughts on that changing a coordinator in mid-season. The question that comes to my mind is, why did you make the change and who was involved in the decision to make the change? Early, early, early in my career, I think it was in the first two weeks I was with the Raiders, someone told me you're going to hear a lot of this during your career here.

I confess, he did it. So, was the Offensive Coordinator fired because the coach is looking to throw someone under the bus, so to speak? Did he think that the new Offensive Coordinator will do a better job? Were other people involved in the decision? Look, Suzy, I've shared with you in the past that different teams handle this differently. There are some teams where everybody, general manager, sometimes a team owner, will contribute to how the staff is built. Other times, the coach has full authority and autonomy.

I don't know what the case is in Chicago. I don't know who contributed to this decision or why it was made, and we'll see if they get any better. Yeah, it's going to be a huge adjustment for Caleb to now start the cadence with another coach. Obviously, the offensive line is pretty wrecked. And they are 4 and 5, but the schedule that's coming up is so arduous, because these are games, like you would have thought the Patriots game would have been a win, right? You would have thought that that would have been an easy win on the schedule, but as we look ahead, I mean, we see nothing but roadblocks. Green Bay, Minnesota, Detroit, San Francisco, Minnesota, Detroit, Seattle, maybe? And the thing that jumps out to me about that is we're going into Week 11, and they have yet to play a divisional game. I don't see that happen often, but the Bears have all divisional rivals left at home and on the road. Are they going to make the most of that or not? Yeah, so Caleb Williams has been sacked 18 times, zero touchdown passes, zero interceptions during this three-game losing streak, and it really obviously started with that Hail Mary during the Commander's Game, and watching that seemed to have taken the air out of the Bears' tires, especially after he had such a strong start when Rich was calling the game in London, he watched a player with a lot of swagger, and I keep thinking about Anfernee Jennings pulling him up from the ground, and I'll be curious to talk to Dan Patrick about this, about what that says, and obviously I'm not on the ground in Chicago, but I just think that we are looking at a beleaguered team right now, and making this change, you have to hope will help this quarterback get his confidence back.

This is a kid who is very put together, who played in two different programs in college, who's very polished in talking to the media, et cetera, but it'll be fascinating to see what comes of this. Well, and you raise a great point about that game in Washington against the Commanders. They just fired their offensive coordinator. I think that game's on the defensive coordinator or the head coach, but certainly on coaching. They let the play before the Hail Mary, they let Washington gain 12 yards. They don't gain 12 yards, they probably don't get the Hail Mary, and they didn't keep the player in bounds. They let him out of bounds. So in giving up 12 yards and letting him out of bounds, they gave him both the yardage and the time to throw the Hail Mary. That's coaching. Yeah, it is, and I think a lot of people wondered if Eberfluss was even the right guy to start the season with Caleb Williams.

And I can't imagine a much hotter seat than his right now. When you're hiring for your small business, you want to find quality professionals that are right for the role. That's why you've got to check out LinkedIn Jobs. LinkedIn Jobs has the tools to help you find the right professionals for your team faster and for free.

Amy, can you have imagined back in the day you're running the Raiders, you're calling all the shots, you need people to help you out, and you're basically making phone calls to find people, and people are sending their resumes in via mail. Can you imagine how much easier it would have been to have LinkedIn? Oh boy, oh boy, it would have made things so much more efficient, so much easier, and Susie, there's a reason it's called LinkedIn, because it really and truly does link the right applicants with the right opportunities.

Oh, I love what you did there. LinkedIn isn't just a job board. LinkedIn helps you hire professionals you can't find anywhere else, even those who aren't actively searching for a new job, but might be open to the perfect role. In a given month, over 70% of LinkedIn users don't visit other leading job sites. So if you're not looking on LinkedIn, you're looking in the wrong place. On LinkedIn, 86% of small businesses get a qualified candidate within 24 hours. Hire professionals like a professional on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash WTF.

That's LinkedIn.com slash WTF to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. As promised, Dan Patrick joins us now. And Dan, let me just ask you directly, what the hell is happening in Chicago?

Because I would just love to hear your take on it. We're sitting here talking about Caleb Williams, the turnover, the offensive line, etc. New offensive coordinator. What are your thoughts? Well, I think they set themselves up for failure. Even though you get Caleb Williams, you still had Matt Eberfluse.

And it's like a substitute teacher. I just don't know if you can respect that guy if management doesn't respect that guy or ownership doesn't. He's a defensive-minded coach. Do you have the right guy in there? Should you have gotten somebody else in there? Should you have gotten maybe somebody's college coach in there to help Caleb?

I don't think it's a lost cause, but I think it's a lost cause for Matt Eberfluse. And I think if you're going to have a quarterback and put him in there, the first thing I want to know is, how's the offensive line? Then I want to know, do I have consistency at the head coach and the offensive coordinator?

Then I want to know what kind of weapons I'm going to have. So Caleb went in and it felt like he was in the best situation a number one overall pick quarterback has ever been in. I thought they were a nine-win team this year. He's playing like he's at USC. But he has to, I think, because the offensive line isn't good.

You get into bad habits and it's just a recipe for disaster. And if you look at what happened after that hail Mary pass with Jayden Daniels, they were plus 50 point differential. Jayden Daniels throws the pass. They're now minus 42 point differential. And now you've got the toughest part of their schedule.

They'll be lucky to win maybe two more games. But I do think of all the jobs that are going to be open, that to me is the attractive job because of Caleb Williams. And I do think that you get somebody in there, maybe an offensive-minded guy, and maybe Ben Johnson just says, hey, let me win the Super Bowl and then I'll come over and be your head coach and maybe solve all your problems. You know, you referenced the Washington game and the play before the hail Mary.

All you have to do is keep the player in bounds and then they don't even have the opportunity to throw the hail Mary. I thought that was a coaching disaster. And the reason I raised that is you just said, it sounded to me, that he's gone after this season. So that would be number three because two are already gone. How many more coaches do you think are gone after this season? Well, I think Mike is in Dallas.

Matt in Chicago. The Jets job, obviously, will be open. Jacksonville feels like it's going to be open. And I hate speculating on people who are employed, but if we're going to have that kind of conversation, I would say there's probably five jobs, maybe six jobs, that are going to be open. And out of all of those, the Jets job, if Aaron Rodgers comes back, is the least attractive, which sounds crazy to say it, but it's because of Aaron Rodgers that I can't imagine a big-time coach is going to go, I want to go into that situation for a year, and then we start to rebuild after that. Chicago is very attractive. I don't know if Trevor Lawrence is a franchise quarterback.

They're paying him that way. Dallas, it's not a situation I'd want to go in. So I think you're going to have these openings, but there's going to be openings for a reason because I don't think they have strong leadership, and I think they've kind of let them disintegrate right before our very eyes. And do you think the Raiders stick with Antonio Pierce, or do you think they make a change?

Well, let me ask you, Amy. I think if, okay, so Tom Brady's going to be involved in this. I don't think Bill Belichick coaches again. I think he's got too good of a gig, but if you said, could Tom help hire Bill Belichick to be his head coach with the Raiders, I'd find it interesting, but let's say Dion wanted to do it. Let's say the Raiders got the number one pick, and they were able to get Chidor Sanders, and then you said, you know what, let's make this father and son. I think there are probably names that Mark Davis would go, or Tom Brady would interject and say, hey, that's an upgrade, but all of those players stood by Antonio Pierce.

They all stood up. Granted, Devante's gone, but Max is still there, but that's a rebuild. I don't know if that's an attractive job. I think if they have a big name, then it becomes, then they would open up that opportunity, but if you don't have a lot of great candidates, viable candidates, Mark may just say, let's stand pat. I want to go back to Caleb for a minute. Why do you think they didn't bring in Cliff Kingsbury? I mean, it would have made perfect sense. Well, I think that question should be asked again if somebody is willing to stand up and say, this is why we went with Shane Walder, but you're trying to make the transition from college to the pros as easy as possible.

Cliff is a former quarterback. Now, granted, he wasn't a great quarterback, but you're going to help that person make the transition. You want familiarity.

You want the same language. You want to know when to talk to somebody, when not. When to be tough on somebody, when not. That's what surprised me the most.

You don't want to treat them like they're delicate, but you also want to, you know, it's such a tough transition, and I don't care how good you are. C.J. Stroud has regressed this year. It humbles you more than any other position in all of sports.

Every player who's played that position gets humbled at some point, and they're all great in college. I want to know what happens to you when you throw a pick-six. I want to know when you get sacked. I want to know when you are getting helped up by your offensive linemen. That's, to me, the true test of who your quarterback is. I've got to get somebody who at least has got a track record, you know, a larger sample size, and I thought the Bears you know, that's malfeasance on their part. You just have to wonder if it was something that Eberflus didn't want to have either a temporary fix at OC, a potential better head coach than him?

Well, I think it's that. I do. I think, you know, he's a lame duck. If you wanted him, sign him up.

If you want Mike McCarthy, sign him up. If you don't, then you're telling everybody that this is going to be a change. What are you going to do that's different? Oh, you're going to win seven games, eight games? We're keeping you? I just think if you really believed in Matt Eberflus, you would have extended him.

And they didn't, and therefore change is inevitable. You know, I was texting you before about what was on my mind, and I guess this is just kind of from my reporter perspective. I think one of the more fascinating aspects Amy, as well as how do you get the most out of a player that you really have only seen college tape? We look at Drake May, we look at Jayden Daniels, we look at Caleb Williams. These guys are all achieving different levels, and we know that everything speeds up in the National Football League. You're taking a kid and throwing him right into the deep end.

What is the best approach to a player like that? You mentioned maybe it is bringing somebody on, having a better fit at the offensive coordinator position, but to take a guy who is part of the reason why the Bears were in position to get Caleb Williams in the first place and put him in as offensive coordinator just seems like setting up a player to fail. But I thought that they had a decent infrastructure from the talent perspective. What we had been told is, you go get a number one wide receiver, you do have a running back, defense is good. It was just get the offensive line better because I always use the Andrew Luck model. You can't spend $100 million and then you spend $50 on the line.

It just, it's a recipe for disaster. And that eventually led to Andrew Luck not wanting to play football anymore because they didn't think about the offensive line. If I'm bringing in, if it's Drake May, if it's Jayden Daniels, if it's Bo Nix, J.J. McCarthy, how's my offensive line?

What system do we run? Is it offensive-minded head coach? The offensive coordinator. Just the relationship.

It's just small things I think that add up where you can make or break. I go back to David Carr, who was one of the more talented quarterbacks I ever saw. He got, nobody got sacked more in the first three years of their career than David Carr.

I think he got sacked 75 times his rookie year. You can't recover from that confidence-wise. That's the first thing that goes with these kids. Their confidence.

They've done everything and it's been easy throughout their high school, college careers. And now all of a sudden you get your ass handed to you and you're like, wait a minute here. I need some help.

And where is that help? And I think Caleb's looking for that. And you make a great point as did Suzy. They excel in high school and then they're in college.

They excel in college and now they're in the National Football League. And Suzy, to your point about the game being faster, umpteen rookies said that during my career. Amy, the game is so much faster.

The game is so much faster. That's not just hyperbole. It's true. And the other thing people forget is how young these kids are when you're drafting them. We drafted a number of players. They weren't even 21 yet. You know, they turned 21 shortly thereafter. But they're young.

They're now in the National Football League. Some of them are drafted to locations in which they don't want to live. They don't want to move from their families. There's a lot going on in their lives.

And to the point you both are making, you need to have the right infrastructure. And I'm going to throw out Sam Darnold as an example. He's on his fourth team and we're seeing more from him now than we did in any of the other stops. But Amy, you know, when we look at these quarterbacks and the reason why I thought Jayden Daniels and Caleb were going to be good right away and Bo Nix is because they had played for two different high profile teams in college. And they had played in big time conferences. So you had Jayden when he was at Arizona State and then goes to LSU. Caleb, Oklahoma, then USC.

Bo was at Auburn. Then he goes to Oregon. So you're already 22, 23, maybe 24 when you're coming out. You're also getting money.

You're already a professional. And I thought the transition was going to be a whole lot easier for these guys. And I think it has been for Jayden. Bo has shown signs and Drake May has really come along quite well. And JJ McCarthy probably would have played well alongside these guys. I just think Caleb, the expectation level is crazy for him.

In Chicago, really unrealistic. They thought they had their Jordan Love. Well, Jordan Love sat for how many years behind Aaron?

You want him to be the best quarterback in franchise history and you want him to do it his first year there. It doesn't happen that way. And we talk about how fast the game is. In college, you don't have to throw anybody open. They're playing at programs where you're playing against Texas Tech and you go, oh, that guy's open and that guy's open and that guy's open. In the NFL, it's that guy's no, he's not open anymore.

No, he's not. You're throwing guys open and they're a half a second slow instead of a half a second quicker. The anticipation is what they talk about. That you learn hey, that guy hadn't even turned around, I'm throwing the football.

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Terms apply. Learn more at American Express dot com slash Amex Business. Let's talk LinkedIn people and small business owning. I'm a small business owner.

Yeah, I might host the Rich Eisen show but I run it too. Rich Eisen Productions is a small business. And when you're hiring for small business, you want to find quality professionals that are right for the role. And that's why you've got to check out LinkedIn Jobs. LinkedIn Jobs has the tools to help find the right professionals for your team faster and for free. It's not just a job board, this LinkedIn. LinkedIn helps you hire professionals you can't find anywhere else, even those who aren't actively searching for a new job but might be open to the perfect role. In a given month, over 70% of LinkedIn users don't visit other leading job sites. So if you're not looking on LinkedIn, you're looking in the wrong place. LinkedIn knows that small business is wearing so many hats and might not have the time or resources to hire.

That's why you've got to use them. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash Eisen. That's LinkedIn.com slash Eisen to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. And you raised such a good point about being able to sit a quarterback and you referenced Aaron and Jordan Love. Well how about Aaron Rodgers sitting behind Brett for all those years and when we passed the new collective bargaining agreement, well it was new at the time we passed it when I was in the league. It's the same CBA now. It's been extended time and time again. But when that agreement initially passed, the first thing many of us said to one another is, under this collective bargaining agreement, you're not going to be able to sit players like you were in the past because of the way free agency changed. And I hate that. Well and so you used to be able to sit a player like Aaron Rodgers for a lot of years. You can't under the new, and I keep calling it new because it was new when I was there and we enacted it. But this CBA does not allow a team to sit a player as long as you used to be able to do so.

I hate that Dan. Well it used to be, but you got paid. Remember when these guys were getting 40, 50 million dollars coming out of college?

They hadn't proven themselves. So you had to play them because you're paying them all this money. At least they're coming out now and they don't strap you with the salary cap. If anything, it's a benefit to be able to build your team around these quarterbacks because you don't have to pay them 50 million dollars up front.

I hear you. I signed the paychecks. The financial or fiscal responsibility is now back to really where it should be. Let me pay you on merit, not on what we think you. I don't know who came up with it. What agent came up with this, Amy, that was at least Steinberg who said, you know what, that guy's coming out of college and he deserves a 50 million dollar signing bonus.

I'm sure Lee was involved. And you know what, your point is so well taken because there's two sides to the coin under the collective bargaining agreement. You are not paying players what we used to, and I did sign those paychecks so I know the amount, but you aren't able to sit them as long and I think that's the proof of the every coin has two sides. And that's the part that kind of bothers me because I just feel like, I was listening to Andrew Whitworth talking about how hard it is to block for Caleb and plus obviously their offensive line's been decimated. But there's just no you're throwing these kids in the deep end so fast.

There's no time to develop. There's no time for nuance and I get that it works with certain players, but to say everyone was busy lauding Caleb because he has such a great start to the season and it's a revamp of the Bears and they finally got their chosen one. Call me year two or three, but I just feel like finding the special sauce, the secret sauce so that these players are our coach, they're learning. I was really, maybe I'm crazy, don't answer that. But when Anthony, watch it, when Anthony Jennings had to pull up Caleb and where was the offensive line? And there's something stuck in my craw there that I'm just wondering could they already be tired of Caleb there?

I don't have any intel to be able to say that, but that shocked me. Like when you have your quarterback down, you should be fighting for who's going to pick him up, help him up. And I'll go back to Amy, you brought up the second to last play in the Hail Mary pass by Jayden Daniels. Who is the one guy the guy with the least experience on that football field for the Bears is the one who was saying to the defensive backs, move up, move up. He had the awareness and look, I don't know if he's a know-it-all or the players, he's not a locker room guy.

I don't know that, but that told me a lot about him. He was in the moment. He was like, hey, move up, don't give him these 12 yards so Jayden can't get it to the end zone. He barely got it. He didn't even get it to the end zone and they gave him 12 yards. He wouldn't have been able to get it to the end zone. 12 yards and let him out of bounds. That's coaching. So I don't know, it feels like Caleb it's going to be tougher for him than he thought it was going to be because when you watch him at Oklahoma, first time I saw him play and I go, oh my God, he has to be the starter. And then he goes to USC.

Okay, no defense. He got a score all the time. He's able to freelance. You just can't do that. I think we get caught up in, man, Mahomes does it. Oh, he's Mahomesian.

No, no, no. There's one Patrick Mahomes and Mahomes is really very economical when he does run. He doesn't, he's not a runner. I think he's an opportunist and I'll take seven yards.

I'll dance down the sidelines, whatever it is. Lamar is a runner. Kyler is a runner. Jalen Hurts is a runner. Caleb isn't a runner.

He should be an opportunist. And that is take it. If it's there, then, and if it's not there, then you know what? You eat a sandwich, but that's it. You can't be trying to do it because you're in the backyard.

And this is the way I used to do it at USC. It's just not going to work here. Is there mustard or mayo on that sandwich out of curiosity? I don't know why I even use the sandwich. I love you for doing that. I actually, my first thought when you said that was I love you even more. I apologize. I'm better than that. Why?

I don't know. I dropped a few F-bombs last week on the show. She did.

It was very exciting. I tried to get her drunk so she'll start getting really bawdy. Then Lizzie Visser has a fit because we have a swear. She's never sworn in her life.

It's a whole to do. Oh, really? She won't swear. And Leslie lets me know that she's been very direct with me about my swearing. Well, I know that I heard the expression fat before I came on the show. Well, that was in reference to a story I told on the podcast last week, which you can find on the Rich Eisen Show YouTube channel, but whatever. I didn't realize.

I just heard that. Okay. You want to hear a quick Al Davis anecdote about the word fuck?

Yes, please. So, okay. The word fuck was used like the word the. So, you know, and there was, you know, mother, ha ha and just every day, everyone. I'm sorry.

It was mother what? I don't want our producer to get too angry. So, one day I'm in Al's office and everybody, everybody is saying, you know, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. I'm doing it.

Al's doing it every day. One day I say the word shit. I say, young lady, watch your mouth. So, you could say any word you want.

But when you, if I said that was not okay. Did I ever ask you the question about Al when he went on the road? Did he bring his own toilet? He did not. No, he did not. Is that really a rumor?

I've heard that once, but he did not. Okay. Not, not, not.

Okay. Because I, yes, the person who told me I believe them because they would have been in a, I don't want to say a position to validate, but I remember somebody saying, yeah, Al brings his own toilet. And I go, maybe toilet seat? I don't think you bring your own toilet. So, maybe his own toilet seat, I don't know. But, sorry, we got off track.

All this talk about toilets made me think of the Jets. Oh, that was a segue. That was a segue. Well done. Well done. Yes. Yeah.

That's more than a sandwich though. Dan, thanks so much for joining us. Yeah.

Good to talk to you. Yay. How about them Jets, Dan?

Woo. Rich is just like, you know, he, he, he's, he's so, so nice. He started the season.

He was excited. I didn't want to be anywhere near him for the first game thinking, God knows if Aaron Rodgers gets hurt again, but like, is there just, is there some kind of like Aaron Rodgers curse stink that has to do with this team? And is he back next year?

No, no, no. Well, that's, once again, if you want to attract a coach, the first thing I'm going to say is, what's Aaron's status? Because you don't take over that team. Where are you going to have a lame duck quarterback? You just don't. And I don't, you know, I'm old enough to remember when Unitas ended his career, when Namath ended his career, Willie Mays.

I am, I am. And Willie Mays ended his career. Like, like we're watching this and I think in our minds, Tom didn't slow down. Brady's could play right now. But Aaron does rely on his footwork so much more, dancing out of the pocket, the whole, you're watching the end of a career and I don't think we were ready for that. I think you just thought, well, Aaron Rodgers is just great. Like, he'll be great forever.

But he's not. It's like Peyton Manning. It was done. Like, it was like, wow, it's over. Drew Brees. It just ends.

And it ends abruptly. And it's usually the player is the last guy to recognize that. I think Aaron thinks or thought, I'm Aaron Rodgers. He's just Aaron. Like, it's, it does, I don't think it scares any, I don't think defenses are like, oh my God. Whereas it used to be, they knew, they knew if he had the ball, somehow, some way, just like Brady, just like Mahomes, you're going to win this game.

And you just don't see that. And I think leaders can lead by example, which he probably did in Green Bay. Now is when you need to lead by your words, too. And I think he's failed the Jets.

This is what you need. You don't have a head coach. Maybe you wanted a change. You got your offensive coordinator.

Now you don't. You wanted Devonte. Like, you got everything you wanted. The Jets now want something back from you. And that's being a leader.

And I think that that's where he is really disappointed. You know, you talk about the end of careers. I had the just great, great, great fortune of sitting with Al Davis and Bill Walsh for many, many, many conversations. And one that stood out to me was Bill Walsh saying to Al, Al, you've got to move on from players more quickly than you do. You hold on to players too long. It's better for the team if you let them go sooner than you do. And I will, oh, I get goosebumps when I think of it.

Al's response to Bill was, I can't. I love them. I don't think there's any love, though. And I think, you know, your insight on that is so astute. But I feel like with New York, there's no love there. There's no relationship though, Amy, who cares about his players. I mean, he hasn't been there.

Like moving on from Farb in Green Bay or moving on from Aaron in Green Bay or, you know, whoever it is in all of these franchises. But you have to. It's a business. You have to. You can't fall in love.

That's exactly the point that Bill Walsh was making to Al, which is it's a business. You have to. And Al said, I can't.

I love them. But you two are absolutely right. That doesn't exist between the Jets and Aaron. But it is hard to tell a player like that it's over. It's just a hard thing to do. Bill had to say, well, Pat McAfee, maybe.

Like, I don't know who he would listen to. But you're watching, and I thought the Jets were playoff caliber, Super Bowl caliber. I thought defense, you got one really good wide receiver.

You got some good running backs, quality running backs. With Aaron, you know, they won seven games with Zach Wilson. They should be able to win nine or ten.

And then with his experience, they could be a dangerous out. Well, they're anything but that. When they lost to Denver, ten to nine, at home, I thought, oh my God.

They are, they're not good at all. It was one of those where I kept thinking, all right, Aaron will get this. It's going to work out a little bit here.

And then I realized he was acting his age, and that head coach is not a head coach. And the ownership, I don't know. He's waiting for to be, you know, somebody in Donald Trump's cabinet or whatever.

He's going to be ambassador to Ireland or something. And I said, this is just Jetsian. This is what they do. They just, they act like the Jets. So Aaron is, I don't know, it just he's harmless, it feels like. And I never thought I would say that, but we're seeing the end of, you know, an incredible career. And it's funny because I feel like Aaron really seemed to like a mystique about himself. I think he was drawn to that. And you can see, right? But I'm not, once again, I say to you, I'm not crazy. Don't answer that.

But he seemed to like the idea of a mystique. And you look at other older quarterbacks like Stafford, like Goff, who have different relationships with the players. And it seems to me, as I sit here in Los Angeles opining from afar, that there's just no connection that Aaron has made with the younger players in this locker room that's going to make them, number one as a leader, play for him, play with him, and fight for him. Well, the Mike Williams calling him out. Red line, red line.

You don't need to do that. It's just Aaron was so good in Green Bay that I think we kind of looked past maybe what he wasn't. And that was their vocal leader. He was just an unbelievable football player. And sometimes that's enough.

You just go by example. That that guy's out there, you're going to play, you're going to play hurt, you're going to be big time. And then you get to the Jets, and then you realize that big time is not there. Now what else can you do?

Can you provide anything else? And we just haven't seen that. Once again, it starts from the top down.

Most of the organizations, let me start at the top, and then I have a pretty good idea of how good the team is going to be. I misunderstood when you said you referenced Aaron calling out Mike Williams. And I agree with you entirely.

He should not have done that under any circumstances. I thought what you were referencing was the fact that Mike just took a subtle dig, well maybe not so subtle, back at Aaron. And that's why I was saying red line, red line.

I love that Mike took him back on using that exact same expression. And look, I just want to underscore that you two are both absolutely unequivocally right. It is a business. My only point is, and having been on the business side, notwithstanding that it's a business and you have to make business decisions, sometimes they're very, very, very hard to make. Yeah, but Bill Walsh had to move on from Joe Montana. Yeah, I get it. And that was the conversation he was having with Al.

It's hard to do on a personal level. But it did help he had Steve Young there. So if I'm moving on, it wasn't like he had Jim Druckenmiller there.

It was I hate doing this. Steve, you ready? Come on in. You're right. That is so true. OK, we took care of that. Next. We solved that problem.

Wait, no cowboys? Do you mind? I was going to do a cute segue. I was going to mock you.

You just took away from the fun of a cute segue. You know what, OK, you can edit that out. No, Dan.

We will never edit you. OK, OK, OK. What's next, Susie? Well, Dan, Dan, why are we talking about curtains in Dallas?

This is so in this storyline is so insane. Are we really talking about a set of windows in Dallas that make can we have the picture up, Don? Thank you. I mean, it looks like you're hearing the angels upon high. I want some sound effect. I wish, well, I have a lot of wishes on the audio side, but we can edit that. I would like the record to reflect that I am the only person here not singing at the moment, because if I was singing, it could violate some law.

No, try it. Well, I don't think we were singing either. Pretty accurate there. And I do think that that it is the correct reference is it is curtains for the Cowboys.

I get it literally and figuratively. Oh, that's cute what you did there. That was cute.

Yeah, did that. That was cute. I feel like and this isn't fair, I know, but it's like elder abuse with Jerry Jones. But he's the one abusing Jerry Jones. When he says these things and and I don't know what it is that we men have that we can never admit that we're wrong. All he has to do is say, you know what?

We're going to look at that. And if my players feel like that, you know, the sun is in their eyes and C.D. said that and I thought it was a home field advantage. But he doubles down and he truly thought, let's go east west and we're going to have the indoor outdoor feel to my stadium here as if there was patio furniture out there or something. And I just thought there are times when he shouldn't be in front of a microphone. I hate hearing it because he's done an unbelievable job. He's a Hall of Famer.

What he's done with the Cowboys all of those things. But when all of a sudden nobody's talking about that, they got blown out. Everyone talked about these damn curtains that have been there since they opened this building.

And they have curtains that they close for basketball games, for concerts. So he could avoid this. And I heard somebody saying, were you telling me maybe, Aime, were you telling me somebody said that, oh, I think it was Don before that McCarthy made a mistake. The thing is, I agree with what you are both saying. But you were saying, but just to finish that, you were saying that maybe McCarthy threw in the wrong direction. I agree with what you both are saying, but I do think Jerry made a fair point as to McCarthy. And this goes to something about which I am passionate and you two are passionate.

Attention to detail. When you lose the coin toss and then you get to pick which side of the field on which you will begin, factor in the sun. You know the sun is going to be a factor. Mike did not factor that in when picking the side of the field. So notwithstanding that what you guys said is right, I think Jerry was fair in noting that Mike didn't pay attention to detail. But the sun shouldn't be a factor. That is so crazy.

It is. So pay attention to detail and pick the side of the field right. Or shut the curtains. But he feels like this is our home field advantage. But your players have to look in the sun. I don't know how you go, hey, we're so much better in the sunlight than other teams are.

C.D. Lamb, I mean, do you practice in there? I don't think you practice in there. But yeah, if you're going to say, hey, let's have some pass patterns at around 3.30 local time. Hey, what time does the sun go down?

Okay, let's get out there and practice. If you really want to have attention to detail and you want to have a home field advantage. I mean, it's not exactly the cold at Lambeau, but the sun, the fact that we're talking about it is instead of it's like we've moved on from the Cowboys not being a good team. What else can we talk about?

Hey, curtains. Yeah, that sounds like ESPN can lead their shows with that. But I think it does kind of hide the fact that this team got blown out again at home. That's five consecutive games. I think they've surrendered. They've been outscored. I think they surrendered 200 points in five consecutive home losses. I mean, that's incredible, incredible for this team.

But I do think all their problems started. I wouldn't have resigned Dak. I would have made him play this season. Imagine if you didn't resign him and he got hurt. You're not bringing him back next year. Right?

You're probably not. But you know, like the Giants did with Daniel Jones. But you know, they doubled down. So you make a mistake. You know what?

It's that guy thing. No, we don't make we don't admit mistakes. We're going to double down and going to keep him and get rid of Saquon Barkley.

And I go, what are you doing? Like I would have had Dak. You still got to pay Micah Parsons. You got CeeDee Lamb. It's like you have a Christmas tree with beautiful ornaments at the top, but the bottom, there's no presents underneath.

You can't afford anything here. And then you got Jerry, who's going to make another coaching change at the end of this year. Like it's just it's crazy.

But they are the gift that keeps on giving. You know, you reference the Giants and I want to ask you a question about that, but not until I again salute you for your double entendre of the word curtains. That was remarkable. As to the Giants, you know, there's been some chitter chatter. That's a very formal term, chitter chatter about whether or not Brian Debo will be back. And John Mera said he has no plans to move on.

We know plans change. But what has fascinated me about that is there hasn't been the same chitter chatter, at least not that I've heard, with respect to Joe Shane. And yet Joe did the Daniel Jones contract to which you just referred. And he let Saquon walk to a divisional rival. Why is there chitter chatter about the coach and not the GM?

Or maybe I'm just missing the chitter chatter. Well, I think it should be a package deal. Absolutely. Daniel Jones needed Saquon Barkley. Saquon Barkley doesn't need Daniel Jones. And that's what I didn't understand, that you're going to keep Daniel Jones. You're going to pay him instead of making him play out one more season.

Show me if you can actually do this. Now, because they've already made the playoffs with Daniel Jones, you can't say, well, we haven't had success with this guy yet. Well, you did, and now you've had less success with him. And that's on the GM and the coach. I just, I don't understand that sometimes when you say, when we give these quarterbacks, you're going to give the money a year or two years early.

I've got to make you earn it. I have to see, my sample size would be a lot larger. Now, I know I might have quarterbacks and agents who might be pissed at me, but I just, if you said to Jacksonville, you want to see another year out of Trevor Lawrence, you want to give him $245 million.

Would they have a different answer? If I said to the Cowboys, do over with Dak, what would they say? Now, the Cardinals with Kyler Murray, he's become a better quarterback. So I give him credit, but I wouldn't have paid him early. It just feels like we keep doing this and we compound mistakes, and the Giants certainly did that with Daniel Jones, who is going to be one of those guys that is going to bounce around to another team, be a backup quarterback, get his chance again, and then he may have a Joe Flacco type career where he salvages something.

But in New York, with the expectations, I mean, they failed miserably with this experiment. This reminds me of my favorite segment that you guys do, which is you start writing your old SportsCenter teases. So when you said it's curtains for the Cowboys, I could just hear in my head that 11 o'clock tease. That was brilliant. So it's curtains for the Cowboys in Dallas, and the Giants are looking smaller than ever. I'm just trying to think, what's the next line?

What's the next line? There's got to be an Aaron, there's got to be a, you know, the Jets are grounded. No, no, we can't do that. Oh, shoot. No, but I'm going to say this. When we're done, you need to immediately run and copyright curtains for the Cowboys because that was brilliant.

So we wouldn't say the Jets are grounded, so it would have to be something about... Takeoff aborted? No, I don't think you can, that might be a little rough, too. I don't know, Dan, will you workshop this for the guys? I've got to work in the Lakers and LeBron and the tees.

Okay, so what are you going to throw in? Oh, I don't know. I mean, I have to workshop these things. The magic doesn't...

I mean, Paul McCartney just doesn't write a song in front of you, just saying. Dan, I've seen you do some brilliant work very fast. Can you do me a favor tomorrow, when you spend the first hour talking about this incredible time you had with the football, with the guys, can you workshop a tease for me, please, so I can hear this and just feel special like the old days? How about I'll get Fritzi to do a SportsCenter tease, and I'll give him, and for the Cowboys, it's curtains. It's curtains for the Cowboys.

SportsCenter is next. Copyright it, copyright it. Yeah, yeah. You know, Tim Kalashaw is probably going to beat me to it, bastard. You know what?

We heard it here first on What the Football. Okay, so I've got my intellectual property here, and I have witnesses. We're going to be rich. We're going to be not richizing, but we're going to be rich.

We're going to be rich. Let's do this again sometime, okay? Hey Dan, see you Friday. Friday? Friday?

I don't... I can't work after, like in the afternoon. See you Friday.

It was an inside joke. All the ESPN parties that you and I, we weren't invited. See you Friday. See you Friday.

Bring the kids, bring your husband, and we're going to have fun with ESPN, former ESPN employees. See you. It'll be great. See you. See you. Okay, alright.

Okay. SportsCenter starts right now. And Dan really was the best at writing those teases back in the day. The PAs were actually the people that wrote those teases.

A lot of the young kids in the PAs, but nobody could turn a tease quite like Dan Patrick. Thanks for taking this edition of What the Football. Next week, Andrew Whitworth or Kevin Harlan. We're super lucky that both have said yes, I could do it. So we're going to keep trying to bring you the best guest possible every single week.

Appreciate your time. We will see you next week. Hey, it's Rich Eisen here. Join me and my compadre, Chris Brockman, every Monday on the Overreaction Monday podcast.

Rich, Jameis has taken the browns to the playoffs. Dude, why can't they win seven, eight games to finish the year? Why not? I'm not saying there's no why not, but this is a definitive statement that's clearly an overreaction and is perfect fodder for a show like this one.

I appreciate you coming out of the gate hot. Come react. Or overreact with us. Overreaction Monday, wherever you listen. It's game over. Over, man.