What The Football Podcast With Suzy Shuster & Amy Trask: Kurt Warner

Hey everybody, we are thrilled to be with you on this edition of what the football Hall of Famer Kurt Warner will be with us momentarily and I can't wait to get to a lot of topics with him, Jared Goff, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson. We have a full gamut to discuss with him but we're also going to discuss Tua with him because Amy, I yet again find myself sitting in this chair concerned when I see Tua step up to the mic saying he doesn't want to wear a guardian cap, that he's coming back willing to get out there in the field. He's a warrior, we understand that mentality but Amy, I will ask you your thoughts on this as well as asking Kurt Warner. I'm concerned, I just don't quite understand when you know that playing with the guardian cap can protect you that much more. I believe it's a 10% or 15% edition of security, 20% when two players are wearing it but a player like him who is so young who has been in the fencer's position twice on the field, three concussions I believe in two years.

Amy, what are your thoughts on that because I just wish that someone would say to him, I'm Cassandra, I've seen the future and you need to protect your head. Well, one thought that immediately comes to mind is the role of the team and this may be something that need be collectively bargained. I'm not sure, I've got to think through whether it would require collective bargaining but what should be the team's right to say to a player, we get it, you want to come back, we would love to have you back but we are going to mandate that you wear this guardian cap. I don't know that the team currently can do that irrespective of whether it wishes to do that and if a team does want to do that, is it permissible to do that under the CBA but I do think that's something the NFL should explore. Should teams be able to mandate that if a player wants to come back in circumstances like this? I think you're right, there was a great article that came out in ESPN Today by Elizabeth Merrill, their senior writer, really in-depth, fantastic piece about Tua and who he is, his history, how he played in high school, the injuries that he suffered, went through in college, coming back from all of that and it really plays into his mentality of who he is as a quarterback and as a human being and this is not about having a libertarian streak, it just seems to me that if you can play with any amount of protection around you, you would want that but again, this is something for each player out there, Amy, to decide for themselves. For the player, yes, presumably, Tua consulted with his wife, with his family and made the decision and I respect his right to do so and I respect his decision but on the other side, there are business issues, there are legal issues, there are liability issues and query whether a team should have a right to mandate a guardian cap. I don't know where I come out on that but I also believe it might have to be the subject of a negotiation with the PA. Anyway, it was a great article, it was really worth reading for anybody who is concerned about Tua.

We just hope that he has a successful season and stays healthy and finishes out strong. When you're hiring for your small business, you want to find quality professionals that are right for the role. That's why you've got to check out LinkedIn Jobs. LinkedIn Jobs has the tools to help you find the right professionals for your team faster and for free. Amy, I can only imagine how much easier it would have made your job running the Raiders if you could have used LinkedIn. Easier, more efficient, it's a wonderful, you know what, it's LinkedIn because it really does link the right people together. LinkedIn is not just a job board. LinkedIn helps you hire professionals you can't find anywhere else, even those who aren't actively searching for a new job but might be open to the perfect role. In a given month, over 70% of LinkedIn users don't visit other leading job sites. So if you're not looking on LinkedIn, you're looking in the wrong place. On LinkedIn, 86% of small businesses get a qualified candidate within 24 hours. Hire professionals like a professional on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash WTF. That's LinkedIn.com slash WTF to post your job for free.

Terms and conditions apply. For business owners like you, the American Express Business Platinum Card works just as hard as you do to help you pursue your passions. With its world class business and travel benefits, you can get more for your business wherever it takes you. The AmEx Business Platinum Card offers a flexible spending limit that adapts with your business, enabling you to flex and adapt as your business evolves. And you'll earn five times membership rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels booked on AmExTravel.com so that going that extra mile for your business is even more rewarding. See how the AmEx Business Platinum Card gives business owners like you the tools and rewards to do more of what you love. Not all purchases will be approved. Terms apply.

Learn more at American Express dot com slash AmEx Business. And as promised, Kurt Warner joins us now on what the football and Kurt, your thoughts on Russell Wilson right off the top. You've been talking about him on QB confidential on YouTube. And what do you think about what you're seeing on the field? I mean, you know, to me, this is one of those situations where I know after the fact that it looked really good in making the change, I thought it was a pretty easy game for Russell Wilson. You know, coming in, I felt like him and Justin Fields are kind of the same guy in terms of where they're at in this stage in their career, meaning, you know, that they don't see the field extremely well in terms of being a pocket passer. And they're more about managing games, you know, getting completions. Obviously, Justin Fields a little more athletic now so can make more plays with his feet.

But, you know, more kind of game managers than they are guys that can can carry a team. And, you know, when you looked at the game on Sunday night, it was more of the same, you know, in terms of I felt like Russell Wilson had to make maybe two decisions in this game. And what I mean by making a decision is simply, you know, not really just picking a guy or getting man to man coverage and going I'm throwing it to this guy, meaning you have to read the play and make the right decision.

And there were only a couple of those in this game. So it was just like a perfect scenario for the way this played out with the turnovers that the Jets gave him the way they ran the football event, a lot of man to man situations where it was drop back, throw it up and some guys made some plays for him. So I'm not any more convinced now than I was going in that he can give them something specifically that that Justin Fields can't give them. But I'm, you know, I want to see there was obviously a reason that he was the starter going in before the injury. And I think to Justin's point to coach Tomlin's point before this is Justin Fields wasn't playing great football. You know, they were winning and yes, he was making some plays, some athletic plays, but wasn't necessarily playing the position great. And so this was one of those, well, let's at least see where Russell Wilson is because we don't believe he can, you know, we believe he's going to play the position just as well. Let's see if he can play it a little bit better and give us a little more offensively. You know, you referenced Justin noting that he wasn't playing as well as he could be. I was impressed by that. I was impressed when Justin said, I haven't been playing well enough. And he understood the change question for you is you had all intrigued with the idea of putting them both on the field at the same time.

I mean, yeah, I think there's, there's certain scenarios where of course, you know, you could use Justin in a little bit of a package. I'll just say, you know, just as a, as a player, when you're the starting quarterback, you hate to get taken off the field. I hated when we had wildcard packages. I called the Cardinals game last night. You know, they went for it on a third and fourth down where they did the tush push and they didn't get it. And Kyler Murray standing on the sidelines.

I hated those scenarios. I hated being taken off the field because I always believe, put the ball in my hands and we're going to have a better chance than the ball not being in my hands. And so, you know, in this situation, you know, again, you know, maybe in certain packages where Justin can give you an advantage athletically, but I'm just not a big fan of, of if you believe this guy's your starter and gives you the best chance to win, then I like having that guy on the field and feeling like we can put the ball in that guy's hands and he can make a play for us to win a football game. So do you feel then you need to see more of him to ascertain whether he's actually as good as he seemed to be on the field on Sunday?

Again, you know, seems to be as is a term for fans. I kind of know how good he was on Sunday. Like I, I know what I saw. I know what I've seen from him over the last two years and I need to see more just to, to decide, is he more than he was in Denver or is that who he is at this stage in his career? I mean, I'm pretty convinced with what I saw in Denver, um, you know, who he is or at least who he is in that type of system. You know, you go back to Seattle and they played a little different way and he obviously was more athletic and made more plays on the move when he was more confined to be a pocket passer. I think I got a really good indication of, you know, what he's capable of in that role. And, um, and now, you know, this year in Pittsburgh gets a matter of, okay, can he do more? Has he grown in that role? Because now he's in that for a third year or this system fits in better, or if they're going to ask him to play that way, is he the same type of guy we've seen the last couple of years in Pittsburgh? It's just, this was not a great sample size in terms of saying, Oh, you know, he was doing something that Justin didn't do. They got a lot of man coverage and in man coverage, especially what we saw, Oh, George Pickens is over here in man to man coverage, throw it to him.

Like, okay. You know, and George Pickens made some great plays. Like if George Pickens doesn't make a couple of those plays, are we saying the same thing about Russell Wilson?

Are we saying he played great and, um, you know, they got this huge win, probably not. So, uh, it was just, uh, again, you have to take every game in every situation and, um, you know, and I'm a firm believer that, Hey, if a team gives you man, then you have to make plays against man coverage. Russell Wilson did that along with the guys around him.

So you give him credit for that. It's just what Justin Fields wasn't doing was seeing the field deciphering what was out there and making the plays that were out there within the offense. I want to see Russell Wilson do that when he's playing against zone teams and when he has to read and make more reads in the course of a game, because I've seen him have to do that the last couple of years.

And I saw what the result was most of the time. Can you apply that to the giants game coming up? To, um, you know, to how the giants play. I just think, I think, you know, I think this is one of those, you know, cat and mouse things where if a team goes in and believes they can stop the run without committing extra guys to the box where they have to leave one on ones and, and man coverage on the outside, then I think they will force Russell Wilson to say, show us you can beat us, show us you can make those plays consistently. But if Pittsburgh continues to do what they're doing, running the football and they're forcing teams to add extra guys to the box because they can't stop the run. Now, you know, it plays into the hands of, you know, where, you know, even a Justin Fields or, or Russell Wilson would be in and making the game a bit easier for them from a decision making standpoint, you know, Dexter Lawrence and company, uh, with the giants, you know, they got the ability to, to create some havoc and do some things up front. But that's to me going to be the key against this Steelers team moving forward is, you know, can you force the pass game to beat you? Because we haven't seen that. Um, and the capabilities of that up to this point, you mentioned stopping the run and I'm going to pivot now to another team, the new England Patriots.

It caught my attention and I think that's a diplomatic way of putting it. When I read what Jared Mayo said of his team, calling them out publicly and referencing them as soft, unable to stop the run. And then we all heard Bill Belichick's response.

I'm interested in your view on what Jared Mayo said, whether that should have been said privately, if at all, whether it should have been said publicly. I don't recall a time that I just can't remember a time when a coach called his team soft publicly. Um, I mean, you know, just, we can go back to Justin Fields and his comments about, you know, if I played better, there would have been no question.

I was the starter. We can go to Gerard Mayo and say, he called his team soft because they couldn't stop the run. And we can say, okay, those are things to keep in house. Those are things you don't say publicly, but I'm a firm believer that as a player, you have to be realistic about where you're at. And if a coach has asked a question and he comes out and says, we're soft, we can't stop the run. We're not winning physical battles up front. We can get mad all we want at the coach or we can look at the tape and go, they know what he's right.

You know, I mean, I can't, I can't stop him from telling the truth. Just like, you know, Mike Tomlin, you know, came out and said, Hey, we're not trying to just be okay at quarterback. We want to be great.

So we're going to push the envelope to be great. Insinuating Justin. Hasn't been great playing the quarterback position.

Then Justin says the same thing. And so it comes down to reality and being able to go as a man, watch the film and accept the results of the film. If the ref the film says you didn't play well, and your coach says you didn't play well, you can get mad at him all you want, or you can go, he's right. I didn't play well. You know, now if you don't think that's the case and he's calling you softer saying you didn't play well in the media, that can be a whole different thing. But to me, you always got to be honest with yourself as a player. And, um, and I'm never going to get mad at someone for giving an honest assessment of my play if I believe they are accurate in what they're saying. And so, um, you know, I don't really care, but you know, if a coach comes out and says that I'm not going to get mad just because he says that now, if I don't think that's the case, and he says that, then I would probably counter that when I got my opportunity to speak to the media and say, I don't believe we're softer, I don't believe this was the case or, you know, whatever that is, but we have to be very realistic. I think that's the only way to be great as a player is to be realistic with what the media says about you, you know, what your teammates say about you, what your coaches say about you, what you believe about you, if you want to try to sugarcoat it, you know, because I always used to say this, it was so easy to go into a film session and watch the film and try to excuse away things that you did based on the film, right?

Like, you know what really happened in the game, but then you go into the film and you watch and you're like, maybe I can say, you know, this happened here or, you know, I went there because the safety, what's the truth? Like, what's the bottom line is you can be accountable and say, you know what, I saw this, I was wrong, that's on me, or you can try to excuse it away and at the end of the day, what does that do for anybody? To me, being accountable is a huge part of being a leader. It's a huge part of building a team is going, I can raise my hand when I make a mistake. I want you to raise your hand when you make a mistake.

I want coach to raise his hand when he makes a mistake and together we're going to address those things and we're all going to try to get better at our jobs so we can be great together and so I just, you know, we live in an era where everybody's sensitive, you know, but to me it's, it's read and understand what the reality is and be able to accept the reality. I tell a lot of young quarterbacks that I work with is that there are going to be, you know, articles written about you throughout your career. Some are going to say you're great and I had plenty of articles that said I was great when I went and watched the film and go, I was okay. You know, the game may be played out well or I had a good completion percentage or whatever. So it looked really good, but I know it wasn't really good. So I could read the article and go, man, I'm great. Or I could read the article and go, it's just kind of fluff because I know what really happened. There were plenty of articles where they said I was awful and I would go watch the tape and go, they have no idea what they're talking about. Like they're just making stuff up because we didn't win or the stats didn't look good. But I thought I played a really, really good game because I could realistically assess what was going on and why I did what I did and, and you know, what made it a completion or an incompletion in a particular situation.

And I just think that is so important. If you want to be great at anything is to be able to realistically assess and take what you need to take from a certain situation, discard what doesn't make any sense or what somebody doesn't understand and then move forward trying to become better tomorrow than I was today. And so I just, I'm not into this whole sensitive thing of, Oh, somebody criticized me so I'm going to get mad. If I deserve to be criticized, it's part of the job, it's part of the role and it's part of getting better.

I want somebody like even now when I do, you know, a couple of TV games, rich and I did the games over in London and one of the first things I did is I text people that I know that listen to it or people at the NFL network and go, give me feedback. I can only do this a couple of times. Tell me how I can get better.

Tell me what you liked, what you didn't like, where I can improve. Cause I, you know, we got another one in Germany in a couple of weeks and it's like, tell me, help me, you know, assess things. And then I can go back and assess it myself and I can use that to challenge myself moving forward where I think I can challenge myself or other times there'll be stuff that you go out.

You know, I don't know if I'm fully buying that, which is okay. I just think everything should be about being coachable and challenging what you already to believe, to be more convicted with what you're doing or to change and become better at what you're doing. And so I just, I, you know, I don't really care if a coach comes out and says something like that. Uh, I look at it and go, well, if I believe my coach and I think he's being honest, he's telling us that we need to get tougher. We need to get better. We need to win those physical battles.

And then I need to assess that on film and get, you know, see if there's a, you know, realistic point in there that applies to me and I need to take that personally and I need to be better for my team. Let's talk O'Reilly auto parts people. You love their jingle. You're going to love their friendly, helpful service even better because they're in the business of keeping your car on the road and the parts knowledge they have. It's all you need for your maintenance and repairs. They've got thousands of parts and accessories in stock, either in store or online.

So you never have to worry if you're in a jam. The team at O'Reilly auto parts can test your battery for free in or out of your car. If it needs to be replaced, they'll find you just the right battery for your vehicle. Need your windshield wipers replaced a brake light fixed or quick service. They'll help you there and find the right part or point you to the nearest local repair shop for help. The professional parts people at O'Reilly auto parts are your one-stop shop for all things auto do it yourself and you can find what you need in store or online.

So stop by O'Reilly auto parts today or visit us at OReilly auto.com slash Eisen. That's O'Reilly auto.com slash E I S E N O O O'Reilly auto parts, but when you think about businesses that are selling through the roof like aloe or skins, sure. You think about a great product, a cool brand and brilliant marketing, but an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business making selling and for shoppers buying simple for millions of businesses that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify with shop pay that boost conversions up to 50% meaning way less carts are going abandoned and way more sales happening. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell whatever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web in your store in their feet and everywhere in between businesses that sell more sell on Shopify upgrade your business and get the same checkout skins uses sign up for your $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash Westwood one all lowercase go to Shopify.com slash Westwood one to upgrade your selling today.

Shopify.com slash Westwood one. Just a clarification because I asked my question personally and then I'm going to tell you all the things you said that I agree with wholeheartedly. My surprise wasn't that he told his team you're being soft or you're soft, you're not stopping the run. It was that he did it publicly and that has nothing to do on my end with sensitivity. Kurt, I work for L Davis. He can't be sensitive and work for L and I know you know that. I was just surprised he said it publicly, but that may be a generational issue. Whereas back, you know, in the past years, coaches wouldn't have said that publicly.

I took no issue with him selling it, saying it, and I will just add, Susan, then I'll let you jump in. I will just add, I wholeheartedly concur with you as to sensitivity, as to self analysis, self reflection, improving yourself. And let me tell you something, Kirk. I said this year in and year out while with the Raiders, there is nothing wrong with admitting you make a mistake. You make a mistake, you raise your hand and you said, I made a mistake.

I would walk into Al's office and tell him I made a mistake. I encourage staff to say I made a mistake because if you say you made a mistake, others can help you fix that just as you can help them with their mistakes. I also think that there's a tradition. I will also say everybody needs to do that then. What's really hard is when you take accountability and then, or when somebody is willing to call you out, but then they're not willing to take accountability.

So I think that is an important factor that accountability is important across the board. And so if your coach is going to stand up and say that, then, you know, that coach needs to win. There's a moment that everybody in the locker room knows coach could have done that better.

So again, let me just throw this out here. And I had lots of conversations like, coach, why did we go for two? Why did we go for two down nine? You know, keep it a one possession game. Why would you make it a two possession game or possible two possession game with eight minutes to go with the way the game was playing out? Hey, we can still try to score two more times and win this game, but things aren't going great for us. So let's keep it a one possession game.

So we at least have a chance and we feel like we're in a position to possibly steal this game, even though we haven't played great football. So coach, come out and go, you know what, this is what I was thinking when I look back on it probably wasn't the right decision in this, you know, in this scenario and take the accountability back in that regard. And now we're going, okay, he's calling me out, but at the same time, he's taking accountability for what he does. Now we can work together.

Now I'm more apt to raise my hand the next time because I believe he's going to raise his hand the next time. And somehow together, we're going to work on those things and we're both going to get better. And ultimately that's going to play in our favor.

So I think that's a huge or a very, very important aspect as well. You're absolutely right. And that's why wall with the Raiders.

And to this day, I am the first to admit when I aired when I made a mistake, because if you are a leader and you admit when you make a mistake, it encourages and inspires others to do the same. I also think that you have to take into consideration that Belicheck is sitting there on a show, not coaching. And he's watching Jared Mayo to say this about guys that he coached.

And he's also in a position of having been punted out. The fact of the matter is Belicheck would say things all the time or say nothing, and maybe they were playing soft. And maybe it's just in the tradition of Phil Jackson, who used to use the media all the time to get his messages to his players. See, that's where I come from with this. Like Phil, when I was covering the team, Phil would always use the media to get his point across, especially with Shaq and Kobe.

And so I don't have a problem with him saying that. Maybe these guys need to step up and play harder. It's New England. These are not a bunch of boys playing Pop Warner. This is the NFL and they're in a tough place. And like, oh, by the way, if Taylor's team in Goldie's League loses by two and she missed two free throws, I'm not going to give her a trophy.

I'm going to say, she's going to say to me, mom, we lost by two of them and say, okay, so go shoot some more free throws. Like there has to be personal accountability. And if they played soft and Mayo says they played soft and Belichick reacts, you have to also look to see where the tinderbox is, you know, and see like why the conversation is still, you know, is still, you know, exploding for lack of a better expression.

I've been, I've been diving into film. I did not hear what Phil Belichick said about that. So you fill me in. What was, what was his comment? He came out and said with respect to Jared Mayo's comment that the team was soft as against the run. He said, wow, you know, and I'm not quoting him.

These are a lot of the same players that were there last year and we were number one against the run. And his point was, you know, he, he really took on the comment that they were soft, noting that they weren't soft last year and that there's a lot of the same players there this year. But as Susie points out, he now has the luxury of being behind a microphone. Well, that's, I mean, a, maybe the greatest coach we've ever had. I believe he is.

I absolutely believe he is. He had, he had impact and influence on the locker room and possibly how they played, but to the same respect, there's lots of teams out there that are really good one year at something and with primarily the same players aren't as good the next year. And, you know, we can, you know, and that's even with the same coach. So, you know, that's tough, you know, that, that's tough to say that I do believe Bill Belichick, you know, would definitely have a hand in a team playing better. But I, you know, comment like that to me says, Oh, the coach isn't doing a good enough job with these players. I've seen plenty of players that, you know, have good seasons and then don't have good seasons.

And they're the same guy and they're surrounded by the same players around them. So again, I think every situation is different and you've got to assess the situation. Coach Mayo has got to assess his job to what coach Belichick is saying. And we've got to assess the player. If we're putting them in good positions, say, Hey, last year you won in this position last year, you dominated in this role.

Why are you not dominating that way this year? And, and, you know, and again, you got to figure out what the, what the issue is Agreed as to Belichick being, I think he's the best coach there's ever been. People all, when I say best coach ever, people say to me, well, aim, you know, what about Vince Lombardi? And you know, my response is there was no free agency.

There were no salary caps. I think Bill is the best coach ever. And I should have added Kurt that the other thing he said, and you know, you may find this sincere.

I don't know if you will. He added that he felt badly for the players that that was stated. And I should have let you know, when I shared with you his comment that he threw in, he felt badly for his players that that was stated. I mean, I don't just from the standpoint that, you know, physically they got beat. And so, but again, you know, if it's scheme related, then maybe I would feel bad for the players. You know, if it's player related, I don't feel bad for the players. And so, you know, when I watched the film, I don't watch it and assess the defensive line and defensive front nearly as much as I'm looking at the offense. So I can't really make a statement to whichever I think it is specifically for the Patriots. But again, I think it's really comes down to, you know, what the root of the problem is. And that would be the reason I would feel bad for the players or not feel bad for the players. I don't feel bad at all. But maybe that's because I'm a crusty New Englander. I don't know.

All right. Let me move on to another quarterback. But somebody who's playing at an incredibly high level and that's Jared Goff. And Rich was talking about this on his show today, only the fourth player since 1950 to have three straight games with a quarterback rating of 140 or better.

Three guys before Aaron Rodgers, Roger Scharbach and one Kurt Warner in 1999. What are you seeing from Jared Goff? And why is he having the year that he is?

I mean, I think there's lots of factors to it. I think the offense really fits what Jared does. Well, I think he's very comfortable in the offense.

I think he's surrounded by really good weapons that they use very well. And I think Ben Johnson does a great job at building concepts and schemes that have answers for the quarterback. And, you know, I think he's one of the best in the league right now at doing those things. It's having a reason on why the routes are complementary, you know, being able to have good answers when you may not know exactly what the defense is doing, coming up with concepts that kind of work against everything and things that they do really well and that are staples in their offense. I think the fact that, you know, Jared throws the ball really, really well down the field, especially, you know, when you kind of limit the field when you look at him back in L.A., same way they were run first play action attack down the field. He got him to a Super Bowl.

You look at what they want to do in Detroit, run the ball first play action, get the chunk plays down the field. They're playing to Jared Goff's strengths, you know, in that offense. And so he's a really good quarterback. Like, you know, I just you guys know I'm a proponent is that we've got, you know, better athletes at the quarterback position now than we've ever seen in the NFL. But very few of them have the ability to be an athlete and also be a quarterback. And those guys are the Josh Allen's and the Mar Jackson's in the Patrick Mahomes.

Most guys are one or the other. You're either a quarterback. In other words, you're really good at playing inside the pocket and in structure or you're more athletic.

And and that's the world that you want to live in. And so when you get to that point, to me, I'm a firm believer that you always take the guy that can play quarterback, the guy that can play in the pocket, that may not be able to run or throw it as far as other guys, but knows how to play the position, plays on schedule, plays on time, knows what he's looking at, and then can throw the football where he needs to throw it. That is Jared Goff. He may not give you anything and be able to elevate and carry your team in certain situations. But as a great complimentary piece, and when you're doing the things that he does well, he is one of the best quarterbacks in our league and has been for a long time. And he gets overlooked because he doesn't have some of those athletic traits.

But to me, it doesn't matter. He gives his team a chance because of what he can do. I think a couple great examples recently are any golden and Joe Flacco, right? The young quarterbacks that were drafted high in those situations. And, you know, the offense is struggle, you know, and that might be an understatement that was offensive struggle, put in veteran guys that know how to play the position.

And those teams have looked completely different. You know, they've looked like they've got a team, they know what they're doing, they can move the football. And it speaks to the point that at the end of the day, you have to know how to play the position. And then anything you can do to elevate your team above that.

Now that gives you an unbelievable chance to be great. And that's what we see from the guys that I mentioned. The other teams need to find that guy that gives them a chance and then they have to build around him with enough pieces.

That to me is the Lions. They have built some great pieces around Jared Goff, whether that's offensive line, run game, the scheme that they have, they're coming along on defense, but they're playing to what Jared Goff does well. And they know that in his wheelhouse in the pocket, he is always going to give them a chance. And I just I continue to believe that we can talk all we want about athleticism. That's how you win championships in this business is you have to be able to do the things in the pocket that you're required to do, and then give us extra if you can give us extra.

And, you know, and that to me is where you see the best teams and the teams that have a chance to win championships. It starts there, it starts with playing inside the pocket, and then adding whatever you can add to the mix, or you know, even overcoming it sometimes, you know, doesn't have to mean you're great inside the pocket yet. If you can give us the extra outside of that, be good inside the pocket and give us the extra, we still have a chance. And so you know, that's kind of what I've seen with Lamar Jackson as he's growing into becoming a better pocket pastor. And now we're seeing the completeness of a Lamar Jackson. Josh Allen was the same way early on.

Now we're seeing more of a complete Josh Allen. And now we're seeing how special they can be and how they elevate their teams. But to me, it starts with doing the requirements of the job, making the layups, seeing the field, getting the ball to your playmakers and doing that stuff consistently. And it shows up all over the tape every single week, the teams and the quarterbacks that do it well, their teams have a chance of their winning the teams that don't do it.

Well, they're not winning games, and they don't have a chance most of the time. So you mentioned athleticism. And let's follow up on Lamar Jackson a bit. We had Rod Woodson on last week. And if you missed that episode, anybody go back and listen to it or watch it.

It was pretty great. But he talked about that. And he talked about how there are people out there still doubting him.

I don't know how anybody can still possibly do that watching what he's putting up. And the conversation seems to be that the two leading MVP candidates are Jared Goff and Lamar Jackson. And they're so categorically different. So I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that.

Well, let's I know in this world, people think analyzing is hating. And I think you always have to be careful to not lump those two things together. And here's the thing that I say with Lamar Jackson is I see Lamar Jackson continuing to get better. And I've also seen moments where he's put it all together in terms of being a pocket passer. So I believe he's got the capabilities of doing that every time on the field. I still think he's got room to grow from a consistency standpoint in terms of playing on schedule, seeing what's in front of him understanding, you know, the entirety of a scheme, although he's continuing to get better in that area. And he's better than most guys in the league in that area. But I've seen moments in games where he's been at that elite level. And so when I analyze Lamar Jackson, it's not saying he's not a good pocket passer, he can't do this. It's saying I'm analyzing him based on having seen him do that at times, and wanting him so much to be able to do that all the time, coupled with his playmaking ability. And now we get to see, you know, the incredibleness of, of Lamar Jackson, and he's getting closer and closer to that. And so, you know, saying he's not a complete product yet, does not mean that you're hating on him.

It's simply going, I want to see if he can become like, and I'll use Patrick Holmes, because we know he's the, to me, he's the best quarterback in the league. He plays the position inside the pocket extremely well. And he does his playmaking outside of that. That's why they win championships. That's why he's better.

And they're better than everybody every year. Lamar Jackson is pushing that envelope. But I still think if he can gain a little bit more consistency in that area, now, we're going to see those two guys really, really close together. And so just because I analyze and say he's not there yet, or there's times that he's missing a read or a throw, doesn't mean I'm saying he can't do it. I'm just saying he's not there at the level consistently doing that, as some of the other guys. So you're just trying to push and analyze and go, I've seen him do this, right? There's been moments, he's had perfect games. Now let's just harness that and get to that where, hey, if I don't have to run around and be that special Lamar Jackson, I can still beat you by doing the things in the pocket.

And as I'm saying, he's getting closer and closer to that. And so I just, you know, I think it's unfortunate sometimes that we have gotten to the point where my job is to analyze. My job is to take play after play and analyze and grade the play in front of me. You know, did Patrick Mahomes, did Josh Allen, did Lamar Jackson, did any of these other guys do the right thing on the play in front of them? That's how you analyze someone. That's not hate.

If you say, well, I don't think they did and here's why. But, you know, too often it becomes synonymous that if you say anything negative, you're hating on someone because Lamar Jackson is really, really good. I just think he can get better or I'm waiting to see if he can, you know, take those unbelievable games he's had and go, this can be my standard every single week. And that's where you push these guys too. And that's where you challenge these guys, especially the great guys, right? Lamar Jackson I know wants to be even better than he is. I know he wants to be great. So part of analyzing is challenging these guys in those areas or on those plays to see it, to play it a little bit better and to improve in those areas so you can try to maximize everything that you are. And that's the fun thing because Lamar, if he stays at this level for the rest of his career, he's going to be one of the greatest to ever play the game. If he can capture those moments that we've seen and make that the consistency level of how he plays inside the pocket, coupled with the other part, maybe he can be considered the greatest to ever play the game.

You know, maybe he can elevate himself ahead of some of the greats already and become one of the greatest to ever play the game. And so that to me is what analyzing is all about. You know, and I tweeted today that I grade people play to play, as I just said, but I'm going to look at every play and I'm going to put it in kind of a vacuum and go, okay, did they do the right thing on this play? Did they see it? Did they play on schedule?

Did they miss a hot? What that play, right? And so you take each play and you can say, okay, you know, this play was a C, but at the end of the day, I also understand, you know, if you miss three or four reads and you miss five or six throws in a game, that's an incredible game.

Even though you might not have done the right thing five times, it's impossible to play this position perfect. So you have to be able to assess the moment and you have to be able to assess the big picture and be able to analyze both. You know, before we go on to the next quarterback or the next topic, I will just note that I think there's an important, important point about Jared Goff that needs to be included in any discussion. And that would be at Cal Berkeley, Jared Goff. So let's just not forget. And I, Kurt, that's my alma mater. So whenever we talk about Jared Goff, I've got to give Cal Berkeley a shout out. And there I just did. Um, Kurt, couple more questions for you. I hope you've got the time.

We'll make them fairly quick. You did mention Pat Mahomes. How do you analyze him now with eight interceptions? He's not playing the way he's still great. He's still amazing. He's still Patrick Mahomes, but he's not the flawless guy that we expect. So what's your analysis there? I still think he's, you know, more flawless than most people.

Um, that again, you have to assess every situation. You know, we can talk about interceptions. You know, he has a tipped interception when he made the right decision, was thrown into the right guy, got tipped and it was intercepted. The other time he made the right decision, was thrown into the right guy. It hit the feet of his receiver, got caught up with the feet of the defender.

His guy goes down. The defender now has an easy interception. Um, and those are the two interceptions in that game. And we'll look at it and go, he's got as many interceptions as touchdowns and blah, blah, blah. You know, I don't care about, again, I have to assess every situation and I don't look at the stats at the end of the day and go, Oh, well the stats say this.

I look at the play and go, what does the play say? And I I'll be honest that I don't think he's played great this year. I think he's missed a lot of things.

Um, and he's been too quick to read through things, you know, a lot of times, uh, throughout the season. I didn't think that was the case on Sunday. I thought he played really, really well on Sunday thought he made the right decisions. And then, you know, when there wasn't stuff there, he did what he does and he made the Patrick Mahomes plays and, and, uh, and added the special on top of that.

And that's why they beat a good 49 or team, um, is because he did those things. And so, um, you know, I still see Patrick Mahomes doing a lot right and a little wrong. Um, and the other beautiful thing is I was kind of talking about with Lamar is that these guys are so special that they get a little bit more margin of air when they don't see it cleanly and they don't get the ball out on time and on schedule or they miss something they can create and make up for that five or six times in a game.

So do the right thing and then make up for it. The times that you don't do it and you still get incredible special play. And that's who Patrick Mahomes is, is that even when he's not seeing it well and not playing his best football, he's making up for that with little scrambles and then in finding ways and seeing windows and making crazy throws on the run to salvage maybe some of his mistakes. And that's what I see with the Patrick Mahomes right now. Not playing his best on schedule and in the pocket like I've seen him in the past, but playing really, really well at salvaging, um, the mistakes that he's made early in a down later in a down. And so he's able to overcome and cover up, you know, some of his play, so to speak, um, because he's able to do those things.

Yeah. People always forget about the stats when they see the stats about interception, sometimes they forget about why and why somebody dropped it, why it didn't get completed. Uh, Caleb Williamson, Jayden Daniels playing against each other this weekend, obviously Jayden Daniels with a hurt with her set of ribs. What are your thoughts on that showdown of those QB rookies?

I'm excited. I mean, let's start with Jayden because he's played the best of, uh, of those two. Um, and he's played great football. Uh, he's been so in control. He's been so poised. Uh, I think the thing that's really, to me made him so special was, you know, on top of his playmaking ability, just his ability to make the right decision in the moment is that just like every rookie, he doesn't always see it. You know, he's missing things that are out there in front of him, but when he misses it or doesn't see it, he doesn't put the ball in harm's way. He doesn't just throw it in there.

He doesn't throw it really hard or throw the ball up. He talks it or he throws a check down or he tries to run and picks up three or four yards and he does the right thing in the moment. And that's been to me, the most impressive thing on top of really how well he's done and how well he's thrown the football is the, his ability to manage the moment. Um, it's been stellar. I mean, he's been really good, maybe better than anybody in the league at doing that.

Um, and so that's really where he's elevated himself. Um, you know, but, but he's playing unbelievable football. Caleb has been fun. He's been a fun project to watch cause I think he's gotten better and better and better and more comfortable every single week culminating in our game in London where we got to see it up close and personal is that early in the year, I thought he looked, um, very tight in the pocket. Um, you know, that he was very measured in his movements, which is very unlike Caleb Williams. I felt like he didn't throw the football like Caleb Williams. He's a very gifted, effortless thrower, but there were balls coming out in, in trajectories and you know, in different ways that wasn't like Caleb Williams, but every week I've seen him get more and more comfortable.

So he looks more free in the pocket. Uh, he's getting through his reads and I'm seeing his feet in his eyes. One thing I talked about in our broadcast, his feet, his eyes being connected was a beautiful thing to watch in that game. And then you've seen the command and his ability to throw the football now that he's gotten more comfortable with what they're asking him to do in that game in London.

That was probably the most impressive thing. It wasn't a really hard game from the standpoint of having to work through progressions and having to get to his number three read numerous times. It was more about placement of the football and his comfort level to go.

I know exactly where I want to go with this football. I know what the read is and I know where the football needs to be placed and he would be placed it perfectly numerous times in that game. So all of those things are elements to me to say now I'm watching the mental connect to the physical as he's growing as a player and he's just gotten better and better and better every week. And I think that's what excites us hoping that Jayden plays in this game to see these two guys because it was easy early on to go, oh, you know, Caleb, I don't know, is he going to be special? Because we're just looking at Jayden and going, look where Jayden is right now.

It's a process for everybody and some guys get there a little quicker than other guys, but it doesn't mean that the other guy isn't going to be special as well. And so that's what we've seen is that Jayden was up here from the beginning and Caleb was here and now Caleb's climbing and you know, he's, he's trying to catch Jayden with that trajectory that he's on and it's been fun to watch. And you have the hope and I'm sure the hope for all Bears fans in the organization is that he just continues to go like this. And then their hope is as great as Jayden's been that, you know, maybe Caleb, as he continues to reject up, ends up, you know, getting above the curve in that regard. But it's been fun to watch both of them for different reasons and I'm excited and hoping that they both play against each other on Sunday.

Kurt, I love your view on, on the following. It's a cause and effect or an effect and cause or a chicken and egg question. Early in the season, Caleb was being sacked a lot. I believe it was week two that he was sacked seven times and by week six, I think it was down to one. In other words, the number of sacks per game has gone down exponentially. And what I'd love to know is your view as to whether, have the sacks decreased because he is playing differently? Is he playing differently because the sacks have decreased or both?

In other words, was he being sacked as often as he was because of his play or was he playing as he was because he was being sacked that often or both? Yeah, I think both are a factor. And then I think there's factors outside of, you know, you know, they're running the football way better now. They're more balanced now. They're winning the early downs now. They're not throwing as much. They're more balanced. So anytime you throw the ball 52 times, you're going to be sacked more than when you throw it 27 times. Right. And so they're playing differently.

But you know, back to my point, yes. The fact that to me, a huge part of winning at the quarterback spot is getting your eyes in the right spot on the snap, knowing what you're seeing, knowing where your eyes need to go, knowing what read you're trying to make. And that allows you to get the ball out on time and oftentimes get it to your first read or first or second read, because your eyes have gone to where they need to be right off the bat. And you're getting your reads and you're getting it out on time when your eyes start wrong.

Now you're playing late, you're playing slow. And that's what's going to lead to holding the football and taking sacks. So now that he's seeing it and understanding it and more comfortable with what they're asking him to do and where he needs to start, the whole process has sped up for him, which allows him to get the ball out quicker and avoid some of the sacks that he was taking early on. So I believe it's all cause and effect. But a huge part of playing quarterback is if you start wrong, oftentimes you're going to be wrong.

If you start right, it's going to give you a way better chance to be right most of the time. Let me move on to Daniel Jones. What's the psyche of a quarterback that gets benched in New York?

Well, I mean, again, we talked about being realistic early on. And so, you know, I was talking to somebody about this, you know, what the nature of playing quarterback is that, you know, you're the only one that plays quarterback. And so the great thing is only one starts. You don't, you know, sub in and out in a normal game, you get to play every snap unlike a lot of other positions. But in moments like that, you know, you don't go and say and tell your offensive line coach, hey, take all five of those guys out because they're not playing well, and put in five new guys, and let's try to get a spark. You don't do that, right?

You can't do that. So it's so easy to go, well, who's the one guy that, you know, we can sub out, you know, and give somebody else a chance to quarterback. So you automatically look at Daniel Jones and go, this was all about Daniel Jones. That wasn't all about Daniel Jones. Daniel didn't necessarily play great, although I think he's played better this year. Didn't necessarily play great, but their team didn't play great. And so trying to get a spark, I get that sometimes you don't play great as a quarterback or your team's not playing great. And that's the easy position to sub somebody else in and try to get that spark or see if somebody else can give you something, you know, to salvage it for Daniel Jones is they played worse when he wasn't in there. You know, when Drew Locke went in there, he did not look comfortable and he did.

He didn't look very good at all. And so to me, it just illuminated the fact that, Hey, you pulled the quarterback. This wasn't about the quarterback. This was simply as they've all said, I'm trying to get a spark. I'm trying to change something up and I can't change my whole offensive line.

I can't put in brand new receivers. So let's change the quarterback and see if that does something for us. Um, you know, so I, again, I think you have to be realistic and assess every situation differently. Nobody likes to be benched. Everybody wants to go down swinging.

Everybody wants to go down with their guys. Everybody that's playing a bad half once the second half to prove that the first half isn't who they are, but sometimes it doesn't work that way. Sometimes it's like, you're not playing well. Okay.

You're right. I'm not playing well. We're going to try to go with someone else to see if that guy can play better in this moment than you're playing.

Okay. I don't like it, but I can understand it. And I think Daniel's got to understand that and that team has to understand it. And after watching that performance, I have, you know, 100% belief that they're going back to Daniel Jones, um, because he's the best guy that they've got in that room. He's got to play better. They've got to play better. Um, and that's the bottom line, but I don't think we can read too much into a quote unquote, benching in a situation like that. No, but if you think about it, it's not that different than Mayo calling his guys soft. It's just that David did it during the game. It's like just pressuring him to say like, be better, play better.

Maybe he'll be challenged from and come back a, a better quarterback this week. Who knows? But that's, that's part of the challenge of the game before we let you go. We talked about it a little bit before you were on about Tua and, uh, the guardian cap and about him coming out and saying, no, he won't wear it. I'm just curious about your thoughts on it. It bothers me so greatly as someone watching who's covered concussions her entire career. I don't get it. And I know this is a sport of individual decision, but I'm just curious on your take on him standing there saying he loves the game. He's a warrior.

He wants to play, but I don't get it. Well, if you don't get it, you don't get it. And you know, that's no disrespect to you. So who's is that we're, we're built different. And as a competitor and as an athlete, we always believe we're invincible.

We always believe it's not going to happen to us. And telling me this when I'm 25 verse telling me this when I'm 38 is completely different as a player. Um, I remember when I started to assess retirement, when I was later in life where I could step back and have the perspective of, I had this great career and it was incredible and it played out and I could probably play longer, but I want to look at this now through the lens of being a father and being a husband and being able to step away and look at the next 20 or 30 years. And it's really hard to do when you're in the beginning stages of your career. Um, if somebody would have asked me to assess those things early on in my career, I would have simply said, no, I'm playing. This is what I've always wanted to do. This is what I worked my whole life for.

I finally have the opportunity. I'm going to play and I'm going to believe like I do every time I step on the field that I'm not going to get hurt and that I'm invincible and I get it. I understand it. We can all look at from the outside and go, you're not, you can write this could, I get it, but that's not how we think and that's not how we process. And so it's so easy for me, even as a former player to step in and go, Hey, see the big picture, see life beyond football.

But I know when I was that age, there was no chance that I was going to see that even in a situation like this where we see this and go, Oh my gosh, you know, like we seen what's happened to two of the last couple of years. I just understand his mentality and I understand where he's coming from. And it's easy to sit back and say, it doesn't make sense, but there's a part of my brain that knows it makes 100% sense to me what to us sat up there and said yesterday. And I believe I would have said the exact same things if I was his age at his stage in his career. Even with, you know, the injury history, I believe I would have said the same thing.

And I believe if most players are being honest with themselves, they would say exactly the same things. If he was saying that at 38 years old, I would be asking different questions and I would be looking at this completely different because now you can step back in reflection of what you have accomplished and what you have done. And now you can say, is that enough?

Did I do enough to kind of quench that thirst of competitiveness or proving myself or doing the thing that I love to do or all that hard work that I put in, I was able to live that out for 12 years in my case. Now you assess it completely differently than when you're at the beginning stages of that. And that's where I think it's really hard for anybody on the outside to fully understand that mentality unless you're in it. You know, I'll quickly note and perhaps we can discuss this another time that when Suzy raised this issue when we were discussing it before the show and we talked about the guardian cap, my initial reaction was I absolutely respect Tua's right to say, I don't want to wear one. But then I looked at it from the perspective of a business person who was with a team organization and I thought, I wonder if a team should have the right to say to a player, okay, you want to come back and play, but we're going to mandate that you wear the guardian cap. And then I stopped myself because I think it might have to be collectively bargained. Yeah, but I think it's a great, great point.

Well, and I, again, I, you know, we can look at the guardian cap because I understand where we're at. You know, a lot of people can look at like knee braces. I know my son's playing college football and they're forcing him to wear, um, you know, force is probably a strong word, but they're, you know, kind of making him wear a brace on his left knee.

And, you know, that's not a bad thing, right? We protect that knee. I've seen a lot of guys hurt that knee and, uh, you know, suffer ACL injuries and whatever, but he doesn't feel comfortable. He doesn't look comfortable with it. It's a reminder to him all the time that it's there instead of just playing free and playing ball. And so again, you know, there's just, there's a different mentality and a different thought process, uh, within us as competitors. Uh, we don't want reminders of the injuries.

We don't want to hear about that stuff. We want to go play and we want to get focused and have the mentality that we've always had of playing in the moment, playing free, not thinking about other things, because when you start thinking about other things, now you can't be the best version of yourself. And so I think all of those things continue to add into the mindset and the mentality of playing this game and wanting to play it the best you can and being able to focus solely on what's in front of you, because that can help you to be safer, that can help you to play smarter, that can help you to think clearer. And I just, those are all elements that I think about, you know, just from a player standpoint with a helmet on, uh, of the things that we think about. God, I wish we had like another two hours to debate this cause it's so interesting.

This topic just to me is fascinating. Kurt, thank you again for your time and for being so generous with it. You got it. Always great to talk to you guys. Thank you.

Look forward to seeing you from Germany. And there's no doubt that I can't put myself in that situation as a nonprofessional athlete, but I'll tell you right now, as somebody who tore her needle shred skiing for years, I skied with a giant brace cause I was going to go back and I do ski better without my brace. Now it was holding me back. I understand what he was saying about his son and his knee, but there's a difference between a head and a knee. And there's a difference between a quarterback who's been in the fencers position twice, um, and has had major concussions three times in two years than there is between another part of the body.

And I, and I just can't get past it. And I thought what you said, that conversation about whether this should be mandated by a team is really important because it's a business decision. Well, and as to that comment, it is an intriguing thought. And I would not be surprised now if the league pursues that issue and discusses it with the NFL PA, I'm not sure whether it would have to be collectively bargained or not.

It may well have to be, but if I'm the league, I'm having those discussions and saying, if a player comes back and the team believes that it's a circumstance, which should require a guardian cap, perhaps the team should have the right to mandate it. That's a discussion I wouldn't be surprised to see the league having with the NFL PA. All right. I wouldn't mind having that conversation. Maybe we'll find somebody to come on and discuss it because I think it's totally fascinating. Uh, before we go, we do have a question from a viewer and we appreciate it.

Don, not asking Amy a question for WT football. What is a managing partner regarding ownership of a football team? Thank you, Don, for sending that to me on X and we will encourage anyone who wants to send us a question to do it on X.

We'll give you the information in a bit or on Instagram. Don, the answer to your question is this. Every team is required to have one controlling owner, one owner who is the voice of that team. That controlling owner must in most circumstances own 30% of the team. There are circumstances in which he or she or they in a group can own 20% of the team. But if it's a group, there must be a controlling owner of that group.

Some teams call that the managing partner, other teams call it something else. And so if you want to send us a question, you can send it to me at Amy Trask on X or better yet, send it on at WT football podcast on Instagram. We'd love to answer your questions and we hope that you will follow and subscribe. Thank you for taking in this edition of what the football, we will see you next week. All right, Bill, we're recording now and please put your phone on silent. Oh, where is my phone? Let's go, man.

Get it together over there. Player. Go ahead. Pick on me the way that you want to. I would say that to my son. Just go.

All right. Why would people want to listen to the Sims complete podcast? Father son, dynamic duo talking about the game of football. We do a lot of quarterback and coach talks. It's fun. I love doing this.

It's been awesome Sims complete. Check us out on the believe network. Appreciate it. Just search believe, B L E A V wherever you listen.