No-Contest Wrestling with O'Shea Jackson Jr. and TJ Jefferson: Swerve Strickland

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Not all purchases will be approved. Terms apply. Learn more at AmericanExpress.com/slash Amex Business. Yeah Wrestle Dream, Wrestle Dream, Wrestle. We're going to get into Wrestle Dream.

We're going to get into that main event. But very first, first and foremost, I should say, welcome to the No Contest Wrestling Podcast. I am the heel that you love to hate, O'Shea Jackson Jr. Hey yo. It's the T the Double O, the JI Double G, 2 Jiggy here from the Great Run 8.

The hill you love to hate those Shea Jackson just repping the valley. Absolutely, bro. I'll never leave it. I'll never leave it. The parking is too good.

Obviously, today we have our, you know, our guest, Swerve Strickland. He talked to us a little bit about, you know, the decisions he had to make in Wrestle Dream. And we will get to Wrestle Dream because that is the talk of the town. And you know, I got my opinion on the whole thing. And some words I got to get out that I got to let the public know how I feel about it.

But first, TJ, a lot of wrestling has happened since we've been going. A lot of wrestling happened. You know, we had NXT happen yesterday. Just a quick rundown of that. The Dawn, Tony DiAngelo.

He and Oba Femi are going to meet for that North American title. First of all, I don't know how anyone beats Oba Femi, to be honest with you. It's like Godzilla and King Kong combined into one man. But they have a Halloween Havoc match coming out, and you don't like it because it's tables ladders and scares. I'm not feeling the table ladders and scares.

You don't know what the scare is. Yeah, you know, anybody knows me. If it gets too gimmicky, I start to get a little shaky, but I know with those two giants, dude, it's hard not to have a banger. Right. And then we had the much anticipated debut of Stephanie Vakour.

What a monster. Man, I wouldn't mind her just beating me up. The charisma through the roof. Rensin Claire and her, they put on a really decent match yesterday. And then, of course, NXT women's champion, Roxanne Perez and Corey J, they came down, jumped Stephanie.

In comes Julia. We kind of figured this was going to happen. It's going to set up a tag team match at Halloween Havoc. You know, their two biggest new stars coming into the company against two of their mainstays. It should be pretty interesting.

Absolutely. I got a star next to that one. I'm excited. You know, we've been the two have been teased online for so long. Obviously, they have their rivalry.

So to see them pairing up, pairing up, right? It's going to be huge. It's like if Brett and Sean became a tag team, which, by the way, not to get off base, I think about this all the time. If the Montreal screwdribe hadn't happened and Brett Hart leaves. You ever think about The tag Sean Michaels and Brett Hart eventually are going to win the tag team championships together.

That's how it always happens.

So we were deprived of a little Brett and Sean run, like many more matches of them together. And, you know, it just made me think about that when we brought it up. Corin Rock Sand, not to put Corin Rock Sand on that plateau yet, but That's where the WWE is hoping they can get to. Also, you know, real quick, Lexis King defeated Uramentza. Just a shout out to Lexis King with the illest beard game on the planet right now.

You need to be put under the jail. I'm saying, my man, I got to mess with it. Like, the barber is precise. The beard is on point. It's a hilarious.

You're never going to see anyone else walking down the street with it. Shout out to Lexis King. Then we had the Betty Crocker match of the year, the one you got to see. You got to see that. You got to see Nikita Lions come back.

She took on Lola Weiss. Swear we professional. And then Jada Parker came down. And let me just say, man, I don't know what's going on there. That's going to be a three-woman match coming up.

I don't know what to do. What's that called, brother? It's box office. Best box offers, right? Box off.

Nikita Lions, Lola Weiss. Miss Parker? Miss Parker. Yeah, I'm there for that one, okay? And then, you know, we had.

Oh, you go, Ethan Page. He's going to get a rematch against Trick Willie. Trick William for the NXT title as he defeated Wesley and Javon Evans yesterday. That was a little NXT recap. And now we move on to Wrestle Dream from this weekend.

Oh, yeah. Wrestle Dream, you know, obviously we. In honor of our guests, Swerve told us that he had some decisions to make as far as where he is going with the trajectory of his career. And Thankfully, thankfully, he chose Nana. He's not turning his back on his family.

As you saw, MVP. Yeah. Shelton Benjamin, they came out. Yeah. Tried to strong arm.

Yeah. Tried to strong arm, swerve a little bit. You can't strong arm, swerve. No, swerve really did a great job of making us. Like, not letting us know which way he was going to go.

He talked about the advice that MVP. He talked about the pros and cons. Yeah. MVP gave him his match against Shelton. He talked about what Prince Nana had done for him, but he also said Nana does some things that he don't like, like selling weed to high school kids in parking lots.

That was crazy. I can't believe it.

Well, you remember Hangman Paige said he was going to beat Nana and steal his weed. And nothing made Nada more mad than when Paige said that. But ultimately, snitching is wild. Right, but ultimately, Swerve said, look. I don't turn my back on family, Nana's family.

He's sticking with Prince Nana. We're going to see the Hurt Syndicate, which means more than likely Bobby Lashie is going to be coming up very soon.

So I'm interested to see which way this is going to go. Absolutely. It's, you know, it makes me a little nervous because I know. you know, on one on one side, I I don't see uh The company wanting somebody that they're bringing in to look to defeated. But at the same time, how can you go against Swerve?

So it's going to be interesting to see. Obviously, all the smart wrestling fans out there are going to come up with our predictions and, you know, all types of nonsense. But all we can do is sit and wait. Right. Then you had the glamour Mariah May.

She defended her AEW Women's Championship against Will Nightingale. I know you were probably rooting for Willow Nightingale. I'm a Willow guy, man. You know, she just has such great energy. That Statlander match really, I feel like, bumped her into a new tier.

But yeah, you know, Mariah May, she's just such a great villain. Yes. Such a great villain. And it's a huge Tony Storm fan. First of all, shout out to Tony Storm landing, number one in Pro Wrestling Illustrated's.

Top 250 women's wrestlers, nameless Tony Storm. I think Willow was nine. I think Willow was nine. Tony Storm is the tits. You can say that because if you know her character, that's what she says.

That's what she says. You know, so shout out. Brian Ray, though, the ultimate villain, that beat down that she did put on Tony Storm was one of the most ruthless and vicious beatdowns, especially from a women's American wrestling point of view, that we've ever seen when she was just beating her with that heel on the head, like That was props to both of those women for cinematic, you might say. It was cinematic. They went there with it.

Yeah, it was great. Then we had the TNT Championship match. You know, scapegoat Jack Perry took out Katsura Shibata. I got to be honest with you. As a longtime Japan fan, be honest with me.

My boys know that I watch Resident Worth. I love Shabata so much, and I'm going to talk about him as this. Podcast progresses. There's matches of his you need to see. You need to watch from 2017: Shibata versus Okada for the end.

for the New Japan World Championship. It was a match that Shibata almost died after. Wow. He almost died after the match. His career kind of took off about two, three years until he got medically cleared.

Now he's back. He's in the AEW. He's doing a thing, doing his thing. But Shibata is just, he's a killer, man. And he's a dominant, dominant force.

So I really do kind of hate to see him lose matches. But the way Jack Perry beat him, had him in a sleeper, kind of fell back, got the kind of cheap one, two, three. That's the kind of loss I guess I can accept. I just love Shibata, and I hate to see him take any type of L. Right.

You know, Takesha. Man. Whoa, I didn't expect that. Beats the Bravo, Osprey, beats Ricochet, wins the international championship. Big time move for Takeshita.

I think he's a star in the making. Yeah. Obviously, Osprey. Dude is a tank. He's a tank.

Osprey can survive a loss. You don't want Ricochet taking a loss this early. It might have been the right move. Later, the way to do it is setting up a story, also setting up obviously a revenge angle for Osprey, whose intensity is going to be great. You know, anybody who follows me on Twitter knows how I feel about Fletcher.

You know, I think that dude is the band. And so, you know, they're going to put on a series of bangers to settle this out because, like, I mean, you hit me with a screwdriver. And if you didn't see that, Kyle Fletcher did eventually turn his back on Will Ospreay, hit him with the screwdriver. And that's what led to the Kesha getting the win. You know, Kyle Fletcher, he's only 25 years old, man.

Nasty. The future is so bright for this dude. It's unbelievable. And, you know, had a grudge match, Darby Allen. Yeah.

He. Beat Brody King in a banger. Gave each other a samurai respect. Brody King's another one who, like. Look at the guy, man.

I feel like Brody King should be a little bit more elevated than he is. Yeah, hopefully, that comes with some more time. But yeah, him and Darby did his thing. The Young Bucks, and I got to bring them up because they had maybe my favorite tweet of the week where somebody was saying we really thought that private party was going to beat the Young Bucks for the tag team championships. And the Bucks responded with, That doesn't work for us, brother.

No matter what you think about the Bucks, I like the Bucks. They're cool with me. Everybody knows, everybody knows that Punk is my friend, and you know, everybody knows my feeling about the Bucks. I like to think Punk is my friend, too, at this point. That was funny, bro.

That tweet was amazing. You know, so braggles to the EVPs, you know, for doing their thing. And then, you know, my boy Mark Briscoe, who I love. By the way, another thing we want to educate you guys. Do yourself a favor, get some time, go to YouTube, just watch some Briscoe Brother promos.

Because, for as great as anyone you think is on the mic, The late Jay Briscoe, his brother Mark Briscoe, on the mic. I will put them up there with anybody. They had some great tag team matches over the years. They had some great promos. Like I said, it's just sad to see that Jay's no longer with us, but I love the fact that Mark's carrying on the Briscoe brother name.

He beat Chris Jericho. He retained the Ring of Honor World TV champion. All of that brought us up to the main event. Yes. For the AEW World Heavyweight Champion, three-time champion Jon Moxley going up against.

The American Dragon. Brian Danielson. Yeah. Go ahead, let her. I'm going to say what you say about the match.

You know, on one hand, being a Brian Danielson fan, and I love Brian Danielson, he did say his time was coming to an end. And you have to respect that, and you have to be aware that. This is probably coming to an end. I think what happened in Wembley Stadium, him winning the belt over Swerve, getting the celebration. I truly believe that Tony Cotton, and I could be wrong, and one day Tony's going to tell us that because he'll be here.

I truly believe Tony Cotton did that for the fans. Yeah. He did that to give us a happy moment with Brian Danielson. You get the championship, you get the pomp and the circumstance. He gets to put that on the incredible resume.

We get to see Brie. We get to see Birdie, you know. We get to see his boy and buddy. And that was for the fans. And I really believe what happened at Wrestle Dream.

Was probably Brian Danielson's idea. I believe probably that's how he wanted to go out. And it was a tough watch. It was a great match. Violent, not as bloody as I.

Thought it was going to be. Yeah. But at the end, Moxley chokes out Danielson, puts him to sleep, even though I think the Ref kind of rang the bell a little too for my particular taste, but you're in there to protect the performers. And then all hell broke loose after. It was almost not quite as bad as Brock ending the streak, but when the ref rang the bell.

Yes. AEW's production was so great at that point, they didn't hit Moxley's music. You kind of let it sink in, and I think the whole crowd kind of felt it. I'm sitting at home watching it, and I was just like. Yeah, dude.

And and that. That's what I want to get into. When it happened, when the bell rang. And it is dead silent in there. They pan out.

No music is played. And you're like, did this really happen? Yes, that was the moment. That was the. Oh my god, that was the turning of the tide.

Everything, any. Movie cliche, you want to call it. That was the moment right then and there. And You know, you Obviously, the Wembley thing happened. And in my mind, being a Swear fan, you know, everybody knows I was talking Smack on Twitter.

You know, thank you, Brian. You know, it's over. They're going to send him out in front of the biggest crowd that could clap for him in front of his family. It's going to be beautiful. Then he won.

So all right, then. They're not about to do this to him in his hometown, are they? And then, so, or Washington, his home state, I should say.

So, He takes the L and yes The controversy right now is about what happened after. You know, the bag over the head, tying up Darby, the Wheeler Yuta, the backstabbing. The betrayal. Yeah, the betrayal. Wheeler Yuda, you're rat.

You're from Philly. You could have suspected something like that was going to be good. I'll say this. Because I love Brian Danielson. I hated it, but I love that they did it.

I love that they did it because we love Brian so much. Yeah, we as fans want to see the wave. We want to do the thank you, Brian. We expect that movie ending because we know that he deserves it. But what Brian also deserves.

To go out in a way that helps his boys, yeah. He helps his boys, he's putting his boys on a path right now, Mox. When MJF was a heel. Yes, he's a heel. Yes, he's saying this, that, and third to the crowd.

He's just so charismatic and so cool that you end up loving him. Swerve, same thing. Hangman has every right to hate you, Swerve. But like, you're so dope that the fans can't help but gravitate towards you. Yes.

Moxley is a heel.

Now that is fueled with hate. Nobody is happy about that unless you're one of them Moxley stands. Nobody. And I don't think Moxley is even happy because Moxley's whole story is he's something's coming. Yes.

And he's trying to prevent it from happening. And by any means necessary, he needed to have that belt. He needed to be. One on the call sheet, as we like to say. We don't know what's coming, something's coming.

But Moxley made it a point, like, I don't think he necessarily enjoyed it. But in his mind, he did what was necessary.

Now, by doing this, I don't know if you can ever. You can never say he can never be a babyface again. But for right now, taking out Brian Danielson in the way that the BCC did, that cemented them as heels for a long time. And you've put.

So many people by by By Brian being that sacrificial lamp, I'm going to call him a sacrificial goat because that's what he is. You've put so many people into such a good pathway now for what fans are always complaining at AEW about, which is story.

Now, who's going to step up? Who's going to step up? We have the biggest villainy that we've had in the company that I can even think of. We've made the big bad now.

Now it's on you, Darby. Who's going to step up? Claudio, you got to get answered to. Pat, you need to get answered to. Wheeler, you have to give us something.

It's all these things now that go into it. Mox, the head of the snake, who is going to step up? And you've given so many AEW stars now a path into some juicy television to the point where now we have to watch dynamite. You have to see what happens. And that is what I'm guilty of complaining of it.

And now I got to give credit where credit is due. They gave me the movie that I have been dying for. and it's time to see. Daniel Garcia, you were out there too, but now you got to deal with MJF being back and scapegoat.

So now we got some juicy television and it might have hurt, but that feeling is what the job is. They were supposed to make you feel. You feel distaste.

Now see what somebody's going to do about it. Because it's not, it can't be just waiting for Goku and Kenny Omega. I need to see somebody step up and I'm excited. It took balls. what you guys did and I applaud you for it.

No doubt, no doubt. And especially when you take out, quite frankly, maybe the most beloved wrestler of the last. 15, 20 years, and you take him out and say, He's everybody's uncle. We love him. People are literally.

Upset that you put a plastic bag over the man's head and you tried to suffocate him to death. That's attempt. Look, you get it on the street, you're catching a case, right? Where's this going? Like you said, what was Jon Moxley's plan?

Is he really seeing that somebody or something's coming there to try to take over AEW? I'm invested now, man. I'm invested. Was I happy? Look, I'm going to be very honest with you about the things I like and I don't like.

I like the BCC. The Marina Shafier thing, to me. Oh, yeah, she gotta get it too. I don't, for me, I don't know if it works yet, just because she wasn't presented as this unbeatable force when she was in the women's division. And yet now they bring her over to this storyline where she's.

Just murking men. Just, you know, choking out men. Charcoal syndrome is strong. Right. So to me, and I know Marina has the background in MMA and Mixmars Schwartz.

So it makes sense. Size wise though, to me, like someone like Camille would have maybe been a little more imposing when you have the bigger Woman, but then again, you know, when you have someone who's normal size who can still, you know. rough you off like Marina does.

So the more I'm talking about it, I can tell that the more I'm like Okay. I I think I just need to get it out. I had to let it marinate a little bit, but that's another thing I'm interested in. They're trying to make her maybe China 2.0, which is a huge task to to try to undertake. But Let's see what happens.

Yeah, you gotta see. You gotta let them. Oh my God, I'm saying this. You got to let them cook. You gotta let them cook a little bit.

It has to end the right way because right now, what you guys have laid out is some juicy, Roy. It's juicy right now. People are mad as hell. Use it for cash. No doubt, right?

Let's get it. Was that saying controversy creates cash? Yeah, like, dude, it's here. It's here. And the stove's not going to get no hotter.

And I'm not going to believe that's the last we're going to see of the dragon. I just said that full-time BS. Y'all got me. Oh, that just got cash. I'm not ready.

For that to be the end of Brian Danielson, one of the things that you saw how they did this thing, they're not gonna do Brian like that for the end. No, they're not gonna do that. Let's hope not. Fingers crossed. But anyway.

Now that I'm off my soapbox, I know shock awe. We have an interview. I thought you hated AED. Listen, bro. I just, listen.

I just speak from the heart. And sometimes let's go piss people off.

Sometimes I don't, you know, you might agree, but I got to be me. That's all everybody else is taking. That's why we're here in front of that. Yeah. In front of the contest, right?

In front of me, bro. But We have an interview to get to. We appreciate those who have stayed with us yapping this long. By the way, I've got that on a few comments. Like, why are they yapping for diamonds?

Because we're already on a showcase. We got to introduce ourselves to y'all, man. You want us to just call the FaceTime people for y'all? Come on. Anyway, so.

The Swerve Strickland interview that we get into today, you're going to hear some great stories. You're going to hear about his time in Lucha Underground. You're going to hear what it's like growing up a kid in the military, in the army base. And you're going to get an insight on what were the things, what were the conversations with him in his childhood, with his childhood friends that got him to be the Swerve Strickland that we know and love. And even kind of where he got his move set, a couple of films where he got his move set.

There were some films that might surprise you. One in particular, there was a move in that movie. That he'll talk about, which I saw. I was like, that looks like his finisher. Yeah, man, right there.

You know, and then we also talk about his time in NXT.

Sort of tells us about wanting to be a Triple H guy, kind of tells us. How one becomes a Triple H guy, and so who some of those people are, you know. And so great, great time with him. A slight disclaimer. We understand and we appreciate everyone who comes back for these broken-up interviews.

Now, not every one of them will be broken up, but we are wrestling fans talking to wrestlers. I don't know about y'all, but that excites you a little bit. And we are blessed and we are thankful for all guests who come in and sit with us.

So, those who will give us their time. It would be a crime against you guys and ourselves not to give them as much as they want. There'll be some guys who can only give us 30. There might be some that might only give us 15. But if somebody's willing to give us two fans off the couch some time, we accept it and we bring it to you guys.

So this will be broken up again. Do not expect it for every guest. But now I think I've done enough yapping.

Well, also, before we let them go, let them know. Make sure you follow us. Oh, yeah. No contest wrestling podcast on Instagram. Yeah.

On Twitter. We're at. There's no contest because you know every combination of our title was taken.

So there's no contests on Twitter. You can also find all of our videos on the Rich Eisen Show YouTube page. We're almost a million strong there. People are like, why don't you guys have your own page?

Well, why would we start a page from zero when we got a page that got damn near a million followers? It's a method to the magic. It's a method to the magazine. Think about it. For business owners like you, the American Express Business Platinum Card works just as hard as you do to help you pursue your passions.

With its world-class business and travel benefits, you can get more for your business wherever it takes you. The Amex Business Platinum Card offers a flexible spending limit that adapts with your business, enabling you to flex and adapt as your business evolves. And you'll earn five times membership rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels booked on amextravel.com so that going that extra mile for your business is even more rewarding. See how the Amex Business Platinum Card gives business owners like you the tools and rewards to do more of what you love. Not all purchases will be approved.

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So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen. Here is our interview with the great Swerf Strickland. What's going on, y'all? It's the Hill That You Love to Hate. O'Shea Jackson Jr.

here with my man TJ Jefferson in the US promised. It is the rest of our swear strickland interview, ladies and gentlemen. The staple center himself swear stricken. We lost it, now bring it back. I don't know.

All right.

So, if you're a wrestling fan, you know it's a cardinal rule to not head butter Samoan. Yeah, everybody knows. The new one, the new up-to-date one, is don't staple swear. Why would you do that? Bro, why do you use staples like sensu beans, man?

What's going on? This was a staple of my concept I came up with, like. Oh long like I would say back like MLW It was like it's a it's it's not a it's a it's it's an instrument used to punish yeah you know it's just like over and over and over again and most people it works one staple is enough for a lot of people Me? I've been around the block. It was like, I could walk through him now and then like Um but it's it's also like one of the things is like You see this item.

It's an everyday item. It's something that would be around the area of a ring.

So I don't like, oh, bring out a cactus under the ring. I'm like, why would that be there? No, it's like something that you, oh, yeah, industrial staple would be around the ring. That's very logical item. But it's also like, you know, you look at the sledgehammer, you automatically know who you think of.

You look at like the baseball, black baseball bat, you know, you think of Sting and all that stuff, or Jericho. You look at like certain items. I wanted somebody looking at a sock with a face on it. You know, that was under the ring. Like, if there's a sock under the ring, somebody needs to be fired.

Something going on. HR needs to be fired. That needs to be reported. But like a stable gun is like something that's like now synonymous to me that and a cinder block. Those two things it's like, all right, all right, Swerve fans.

I was like, so it's just finding those little things that are like everyday, not everyday items, but they're very common items. They're not like hard to find. But if you see them, you automatically think back to Me in that moment, and you'll get like the flashbacks of like either traumatic or like. Man, I remember when I was watching this, I had a great moment watching that.

So it's one of those things I wanted to just implement in my whole character, creating the most dangerous man in AEW. It definitely is a sign of. Troubling times for your opponent when I see them pull out of why are you using that on you?

Now syringes are in that now.

Okay, okay. That is where because me and my sister were watching, we were watching the match and we were like, man, when does When they just gonna just do it, bro. Like, like, you know, where the gun at? Like, rest is getting crazy, you know, and then bring out the syringe. And, you know, I've seen my fair share of horror films, but it's just something about watching it live, right?

Where it's just like. You know, it just makes you wince and all that. What is What is your your thought process w the night before A match like that. How do you prepare yourself? You don't.

I keep it empty. I like to empty my whole mind. I wanted to not think about it at all because the second you start thinking too much, you're overthinking. And like, um. Even with like You know, like when you're on the set on acting, if you overthink, you're not really feeling, you're not making a choice, you got to make a choice with dynamics where you're going to go with something.

You don't want to overthink too much. You want to naturally like this feels right, and this is where I'm going to go with it, and you stick to it. and you run it. Um This is like the same realm, but now you got to add in the danger elements of what could go wrong. And you don't want to think about what could go wrong.

You want to think everything is like, I got it in control. This is going to be cake. Like, this will feel something, but it's not going to feel worse. You're not going to try to, like, you don't want, I don't want to think about the worst outcomes. You just think about.

Like The action itself.

So, for me, I'm like on a video game, mindlessly just playing. You're not really thinking, you're just like letting your. like fingers just go across and like just do your actions and stuff like that and then Wake up, and then you kind of want that blank slate when you wake up, too. You know. And um for me, those things, those elements come into play with like A surrender and things like that.

I think back to like horror movies that made you uncomfortable. Like, horror has always been like an underlying tone in my character, which you wouldn't think about with like most black wrestlers. We're very flashy, we're very shiny, we're charismatic, we're athletic. I'm like, Yeah, we're we're all those great things, but like What's that in addition to? For me, it's like I'm not a horror character, but I have horror elements about my character that I bring into play.

Like a candyman, there's horror elements. that bring it into play that's still stick with reality. Right. Like, you know, going around Cabrini Green and like the homeless, and like, oh, you heard about the. stories of like candy man right it's like that's a horror undertone to like Still, like a real thing, a real situation, live setting.

So, I was like, okay, how do I take like. A Wesley Snipes demolition man Simon Phoenix in the ring because most of my movements is based off of. His fighting from that. and in a blade element, but also a New Jack City. But still add horror to all that.

And then, like, then there was a. Then, when I went into the coffin, I added a little bit more Sweeney Todd. Into that.

So, like, and once again, those small little items, they're trinkets that like uh you know like a um a barber blade and stuff like that. Like it's an instrument not used for pain, but it is right. The purpose isn't to hurt, you go there, but It can. And so those are where those other elements came through. It's where the eyes started getting darker, you know, because like revenge is on my mind.

The task is on my mind. I won't rest till I get it. And that's what I want him to, you to feel and see that. With me, you know, something's not right about him, but I can't put my finger on it. And we're not going to tell you what.

He's a little off. Yeah. So there was a lot of thought process going to that. And so I was like, okay, how do I go? A little deeper.

Then the next opponent, I'm like, okay, how do I sink a little deeper? Then the next opponent, okay, how do I sink a little bit deeper? And I just push it and push it and push it until. Like people feel whether it's good or uncomfortable or bad about it but I need you to feel And then sometimes you're going to feel different. about one opponent than the other.

Like, Christian was supposed to have a different feel to my character than Hangman was. Like, Will Ospreay is a different feel because I like Will. Like, that's the only opponent that I actually like Will Ospreay a lot. But. When it comes to the championship, nothing is above that.

Friendship, my love for him and his family, nothing's above that.

So I got to get a different feel out of that. And then, like Brian Danielson, I love Brian. He's an inspiration to me. We come from the same, you know, we're Washington boys. We're, you know, there's pride in that.

But when it comes to this championship, your legacy doesn't mean to me. Yeah. You know, my legacy means more than your legacy because you're going out. I'm going up. This legacy has already been built up.

It's been done.

Now, I just want to take that and add to my legacy as I'm climbing. You know, and so all these have to have different meanings and feelings. And so I can't be just the same guy in all of them. No, I need to have you feel here, and then I had to have you feel here. And so a lot of people argue: like, was he face?

Is he heel? No, I'm just swerve. Right. I'm swerve. And that's.

You know, just hearing you break that down right now is kind of what makes you stand out. It's what makes you Box office, you know, it's because you are thinking about your character, not. necessarily just in a you know in a linear way it's just you know it's it's more of a a Three-dimensional thought process. Right. And it's and it's real.

It's what people go through all the time. Like, it's like, imagine us hanging out and we all cool, but you bring that friend that I'm not cool with him and he's in our group. Am I going to act the same way with y'all? With he's when he's here? No.

No, I'm I Everything, my whole boot's gonna change. It's gonna be off a little bit. There's me, maybe things that. I don't like about him. That now carries over my energy to you guys.

And I love you guys, you know, like that. Maybe, like, you know, we changed the way we act when he. Yeah, like that guy. Like, so there's, that's how, like. Like Altercations should come up.

That's how, like, that tension in the room should build. Same way on television. Just be you know what I mean? Like. And Like, that's why.

Certain people make me, they they make me act a certain different way. Yeah. Like, there's certain people that I do have, I am compassionate for, certain people I'm not.

Sometimes I'm not compassionate about Nana because there's certain things that I'm like. Why the hell did you do that? Like, who told, who gave you the authority to speak on my name? Like, while I wasn't here, do you know who you answered to? But other times, it's like, we did it.

We could accomplish something. Triumph. You know, we're here. We made this happen.

So People switch on people all the time. Yeah. Like for whatever reason.

So you brought up Wesley Snipes earlier, Simon Phoenix from Demolition Man. You said you took some stuff. from that can Dive a little deeper. Like, what did you pull from? Because I can understand the blade thing.

You know, the demolition man thing, I'm thinking right now about the way he fought and his movements. And now I'm like, okay, like, what did you take?

So, me, it was like, that was back with NXT. Um when Um, I think I sustained an injury. I think I torn my meniscus or something, or like something like that. I was off TV for like maybe like three, four weeks. It was so short that it wasn't really noticeable.

Like, some people think I never got hurt, but um. Uh I was all TV for like three, four weeks and I watched I went to a NXT taping. And I was just like I was like unhappy that I was just wasn't on this. I'm like It's almost like one of those uh competitive things like you put this on not me It's like the Tom Brady thing when he came out on the shop and they were like, he was talking about a team he wanted to sign with. And he was like, you're going to keep that MMA over.

You're going to pick him up. And you got to have that. You got to have that. It's nothing against who's getting the opportunity, but it's like, I should feel like I'm better than that. I should feel like I deserve the starting job on any team.

And that's how I felt. I'm like, I need to be a starter. I don't like this.

So I approached Trips and I was just like, yo. We had several conversations months before, and I've said this in other interviews, but I was like. I kept asking him, like, what do I got to do to be one of your guys? What do I got to do to be one of your guys? And you can tell.

Who the guys are. You know? It was so. How can you tell? Um the people that are getting a lot of like Extra multiple segments, getting the bigger matches, getting a lot more talking segments, getting more time to flush out things, getting more backstage, all this, like packages and all that.

You can tell the pageantry is just going up on certain people. You could just tell who's really getting the rocket. And the attention. You know, they're always main eventing. They're always on the live shows.

They're always and I'm like. Who's to say I can't do that? And you've hired me because I did that. But now you're saying I can't do it here.

So I was like, I was nice about it and I was like patient about it. Like, what I got to do, do to be one of your guys. I had those conversations three times, three different months. And then. When that taping happened, I was like...

Why am I not one of your guys? Yeah. And I pressed him on it. And then Like Coming back from that. I was like, you saw the red hair change, you saw the grill come in.

I started wrestling Leon Ruff and things like that. And then, like, William Regal was like, I like this. I don't know what it is, but I like it. And that's where, like, the demolition man Simon Phoenix said, it was like, he was a character that's like so eccentric. He's a bad guy doing bad things, but I can't keep my eyes off of him.

I want to see what he does next. He, like, even his fighting was very charismatic. Like, him, like, remember him, like. Trying to like tap it on the computer, and he's just like, and like, he's like, and the guy, he's just like. Playing around with people because he knows he's just dead.

Or, like, saying things before he does it, you know, like just playing around. Like, I'm like, I like that. I want to toy with my opponent because I know they can't beat me. I have them.

So that's where the Leon Ruff was a very good experimental stage for that. And some people don't even remember that I lost the first match with me on me and Leon Ruff. It was four minutes long, and I lost. But people don't remember that because the character was just so eccentric. We wanted to see character, they wanted to see where he went next.

And I was like. Got it. Bingo. And that's where I just started playing with things. Like, that's where I got into a.

a pocket that they couldn't control it. They didn't know how to and they didn't they couldn't maneuver it. They couldn't put their strings on it because it was not their creation. It's mine. And now so the only way to properly use it was to come to me for it.

That's where I kind of like came through in the back door to get my push with hit row. Right. So it was like a whole mind trick, but it was like. No, I know this will work and I have to be confident in the fact that I know what I'm doing, and you can only get this from me and my mind. A lesson that.

My pops taught me when I was starting my own career because Naturally Naturally, people had their own idea of who I was and what I was gonna bring. Like, you know, you're a rapper's son. They think I'm coming to work 20 deep, and like, just the, you know, just the whole. Uh, just BS, but I always wanted to, you know, keep my head down and just like, you know, do my job, do what's asked of me, don't cause no issues. But then after a while, you when you start to see, Things moving around you that you like, okay, like, where's my pat on the back?

Where, you know, where am I, where do I fit in? My dad taught me. The squeaky wheel always gets the oil.

So you gotta speak up, bro. You gotta be loud. Like, hey, so you going. Yeah, you going and, you know, speaking up, you know, that obviously led to your success.

Now, in all forms of entertainment. It is about the right place, right time, the right role. You know, it's just, that's where success happens. What? moment if you can pinpoint a moment that if it goes Another way we don't get the swerve that we have now.

Like, I think about when Austin cut the 316 promo. If he don't do that like that, who knows if we get the stone code that we know and love. What if Michael Hayes, when he stone cold goes to the hospital after getting kicked in the mouth? Has to get 16 or whatever stitches. He comes back.

Michael Hayes is like, hey, did you hear what Jake Roberts said? He cut a build a cool promo on you. What if Michael Hayes doesn't tell him that? Yeah. Because he didn't know.

What if that doesn't happen? You don't get Austin 36. Man, there's like I probably have like 20 of those in like 20 different instances. It's not like one. Um Man, I would say If I had to guess one.

It was just like A lot of people like to pinpoint it in one area. But I would say that Battle Royal at double or nothing. If it doesn't come down to me in. Orange Cassidy, I don't know. like spark The thing with um Uh Tony being like He made this Really amazing.

Let's do it again. You know, I don't spark that, just like that little idea in Tony Khan's mind. But, um,. like through the office. from talks I heard it was me and Tanahashi.

Mm. And when Tanahashi was like. Um it was me and him. It was going right into Forbidden Door. Um 'Cause I didn't do Forbidden Door the main show on the second Forbidden Door.

Um Like we're going back and forth, and he's about to hit high-fly flow, but he slips off. And I run up and I start fighting him up. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And he like knocks me off and does, he hits me and fly, fly, flow, high, fly, flow, and wins. And That was the moment Tony was like, I can trust him in anything.

That's huge. I can trust them with anybody and anything. And that might be what saved, like. The new Japan relationship with AJ. It might have been because I became the president, like right very soon after that, you know, but he gets hurt.

Yeah. All that goes away. You know what I mean? You know? So.

There's that, like, and then shortly after that, I started wrestling a lot of the veterans. I was like me and RBD, me and Jeff Hardy, me and Billy Gunn, me and Sting. You know, like, they was like, Swerve can make it work, swerve can do it. Yeah, and I was like. Bring it on.

Bring on the task, please. Like, I'm only wrestling my heroes. Yeah, I don't lose nothing. I was just about to ask, like, LeVar Ball said, Even when I lose, I win. Yeah, and you gotta have that in wrestling that works tremendously.

Even when I lose, I have to win. Yeah, like, yeah, you've seen, think about the matches, we've seen wrestlers lose, yeah, and yet. become bigger stars by Boston, for example, WrestleMania, loses to Bret Hart. He walks out of there. He's a superstar now.

So, yeah, that makes sense. That was Hangman Page all this year. Yeah, right. He lost a lot of big matches. True, right?

He lost a lot, and he still ended up main eventing all out with me. No belt. No championship. Healthy hydration isn't just about drinking water. It's about water and electrolytes.

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Is Duke, North Carolina, Alabama, Auburn, and Swerve, and Hangling, Duke? You know, earlier, you know, earlier we talked about, we were talking about bad blood and Drew McIntyre having a valid reason. for for acting the way he did and people booing him. You are on the flip side of this, and I want to talk to you about this. Yeah, yeah.

You did some diabolical things to him, King Man Pay. Horrible. You broke into the man's crib. Like, you disrespected his gait. That was an ugly baby, by the way.

That's what I never got to get across. You went in there and you just did some diabolical stuff, and then guess what?

Next week. Everybody's cheering swords. That swear's a good guy. It's like we talked with the punk about when Flair and Steamboat were going at it, and Flair's got the robes and the limos and the women. Steamboat's trotting out his wife and his baby as a family unit.

And the Philly crowd's like, boo, this man. Like, we're cheering Flair. Like, you broke into a man's crib. You disrespected his gate, and you became a bigger star because of it. And it's just like, that is wrestling in a nutshell.

It was a slinky effect. It was. It like That moment made me a big, like brought me up here. And then my success brought Hangman back up again. No doubt.

And now Hangman's back up here and he's tearing through again. And like that's the that's what you want to do. this like the slinky you propel each other up by their actions You know, um, like I don't never just do an action just for that action alone. There has to be like what's the leading, what's the leading, and what's the okay, here's the reaction. How do you react?

How would we react to that? Only What's something that's fundamental to me? The swerve character.

So, like, even all that horrible, diabolical stuff I've done. There's still a human in there that still has sentiment In values. And now, hangman, it took a while. But Hangman found it. Yeah.

And it was. My home. Me buying back the home with my success. My success. It brought something else.

out of Hangman to take that away from me. And now it brings me back into here. Like, it brings me back. Cause now. Was sentimental.

What was sentimental is funny because, like, Um The sentimental thing with Hangman was his family, his home. And now We're very similar because the sentimental thing for me was my family and my home, me doing a gesture for my family and my home.

So we're very similar. But We're very opposite at the same time. And for those who don't know, You, along with the help of Prince Donna, you Buy it back. that your childhood home that you grew up in, it was just a beautiful moment. You guys put a video out in the early in the afternoon, which immediately made me go, yo, something bad's about because I've been watching like the spidey senses, too.

And I'm like, oh, yeah, Hangman's going to be waiting in the bedroom just to jump you. No, what happened was far worse than that. The man burned your crib to the ground, man. Sitting in the couch that was actually still in the house, too. It was like the couch that I grew up in.

Like that cow, I remember that I remember that cows fondly. Man, yeah, and he's the road that you see him swerve in a peaceful moment was a red flag, it was a red flag. I'm like, hold on, somebody, right? Because the video came out, like I said, it was in the middle of the day, dropped on social, I'm pretty sure. And I was like, Why?

No, man, I'm like, He's too happy, something bad's about to happen. And sure, is the world we live in? He's too happy. I don't like this at all. Wasn't that like it, I just felt like something bad's about to happen, man.

Smells of trauma, right? That's too beautiful of a story. Like, like, that was like one of the first few times you really see me like smile with joy rather than like smile with like, yeah, you know, torment. That in turn.

So we talked about your childhood home. Maybe we could jump back a little bit. Yes. Talk about the beginnings of Swerve Strickland. You know, you mentioned you're from Washington.

military family. Your your family moved all over. You ended up Growing up sometime in Germany. Yes. What was that like for you?

It was lovely. I was like. I didn't have like a Rough growing up or anything like that. Like, my story isn't like that. Like, some people have the story of, like, oh, like, I grew up with nothing and, like, this.

Like, I've had good moments, and I have I've had some bad after my parents divorced, and there were some, like, tough moments, but that was never like I grew up with nothing or I came from the slums. Like, I had. I had a pretty good childhood growing up. Um, were we rich? No, but we were very happy, and we were all together, me and my older sister.

Um Yeah, we had everything we uh really Like could need. In the military, it was like we lived in a, on a, on, on base, on the American base, and all that.

So it was like, I'm like, I remember this, like, we lived a couple different homes, but there's one specific block I always remember was this cul-de-sac. And it was just like. Um All the kids like knew each other, all the families knew each other. Yeah, that's a great because, like, oh, so-and-so's home, like, oh, where's your dog? Like, oh, the car's like, they everybody kind of like lets each other know.

People left their houses, the doors were open, and kids would just go in, run in together, get snacks, and then run back out, go back out to play. It's a mini-community right there, yeah. That's what I remember, like, mostly, and um. Uh, I remember like watching the tapes and stuff like that back, and I was like, I remember this exactly. I remember that rug, I remember that TV, I remember that, like, all those little things.

They still spark, they're still up there in my head. Maybe we shouldn't talk about sparks. I'm just saying, what's going on with you, Deban? You got a lot of your chakra, bro. Yeah, like, damn, we all this rough on Phil did Phil get any of this, damn.

Phil, I told you, I felt bad. I felt nervous, I was scared. Let me pick at you. Let me, let me, yeah, but uh, yeah, it was a really good um childhood growing up. I, I, like, when parties, my mom would and dad would throw parties in the living room, and I would just like be on the stairwell watching everybody.

And I would go up, my mom tells me the story to everybody all the time. I would go up in the room and I would draw the party on the wall, so like whatever I was seeing, I would draw it. Whenever I was like... Like, whatever I would have could imagine, I would just draw it. And I don't draw as much anymore, like at all.

It's been a long time, but um. That was the only way I could put my imagination out. I didn't know another way to do it. Like, it wasn't music. I wasn't musically inclined at the time.

It wasn't acting. I didn't do plays or anything like that.

So I was like, drawing, drawing in video games was my only way to express myself and toys. I would make toys and stuff. I literally figuredly making them at like four years old. It was really weird. Dude's got vision, bro.

But I just didn't know what to do with it. I didn't understand. I didn't understand what I was doing. I didn't know. I didn't call it art.

It just was like fun. This is what I do. This is what I do. And my cousins made fun of me because I'm like, why is he so awkward and weird? And they were like, he's just doing my own world.

Yeah. And that's what I was. I would create, I would be in my own world creating my own world, but nobody else would really understand and get it. Like my parents, my mom was, she's like, oh, he's doing. And they would connect the dots.

As I was like doing it. Um but like I don't know. Um, those are just my childhood as far as like Me, I was just like, oh, I had fun times just. making my own fun. And that's that's what Kids don't really do anymore.

They don't make their own fun. They're like, go upstairs in your room and, like, you know, no, no, no iPad, no video game, no TV. Figure it out. Yeah, 'cause I just it's just gotten to the point in my life where I'm like, man. What did I used to do?

Yeah. What did I used to do before I had my phone and I just had to be out? And it's just like, you know, talking. He's out in the street. Like, I got two girls and two girls, but they're older now.

They're way past that stage. They're like 15 and 13. Oh, yeah. So I'm like, oh, they're way past figure it out. Like, now they want to, they know exactly what they want.

They know where they want to go. They know how to get it. Like, so, um, but, um, I miss like teaching them how to Create. Yeah. Now they're in their own creative process in a way, which we could still nurture.

I could still point, but I still got to figure out who they are. They're figuring out who they are as well. But like as a parent, like as a kid and stuff, I just had a lot of fun. And my dad got me into football. I played football a lot.

Played soccer a little bit too. When we got back in the States, but it was football, football. Yeah. Yeah. American football.

Yeah. Anybody who watches it. Yeah. But so when did. When did wrestling come into play?

Like, were you a fandom or just jumping right into it? When did wrestling find? In fact, to jump in, even before you got into wrestling, though, you enlisted, right? Before you started your wrestling journey, you enlisted and yeah, two weeks after I graduated high school, I was on a bus two weeks, two weeks, I didn't enjoy nothing. Yep, me two weeks after high school was different.

It was just fun. It was a lot different. No, I was like, I got to enjoy my girlfriend at the time, and then I got to enjoy my time with my dad in Buffalo for like. a week and He gave me the spiel, like, hey, this is what you're gonna do. You're gonna run into some suckers in the army, you know, some people that are trying to go against the grain.

But let me tell you something: the army's been around for 400 years. It's never gonna change. All right? It's never gonna change. It ain't gonna change.

You ain't gonna be the one to change it either. Let me tell you that right now. It's gonna be the same.

So this has been the same since I was in. It's gonna be the same when you were in. There's no changing it. Army's not gonna change. And I was like, he put it that way, like, It makes sense.

Yeah. Like, you're gonna change the government?

Okay. Like, no, just do what they say, go with it, and it ain't gonna last forever. Just give me the good, straight to me. I'm like, yeah. And got on the plane and flew down.

Uh flew down to Fort Jackson, South Carolina. And um that was the first time I was like 16, 17 years old. And I was like, all my own, like. I got to figure it out. Yeah.

And, but it wasn't like so much that you were left on your own. It was like, oh, we're working up at four. Report to this at this time. And you're not going there by yourself, you're kind of like lining up formation everything.

So you're like, oh, if I follow these instructions. I'm going to get what I need to where I go. That's really it. That's what the military is. And then after you get out of that, you like.

You come home, or like, that's kind of how the rest of life is, too, in a sense. Like, if you like, here's the guidelines, here's what you do. Just do it. How do people mess this up? I don't care.

Like, you gotta figure out, like, how are people messing this up? They like this literally telling you what to do.

So, like, that was like 17 years old, and then just sparked. I was like, I feel like. Like, okay. I can accomplish things now. And that's where like confidence really started growing in me as a person.

Like, oh, like, I gotta learn how to shave. Oh, that's that's it. Oh, that's not so bad. I used to be afraid of that. Yeah.

But now the army put me in a place where, like, no, you have to do this now. Like, that's your regulation.

Okay, and I gotta learn to do it. Like, oh, you have to have your. Uniform, like proper, you got to dry clean it, you got to do this, you got to make your bed, you got to align your foot lockers and your locker and all that stuff. You need to learn organization, okay. Boom, did that.

And I'm like, that wasn't so hard. I used to be kind of worried about all these things. And now, like, I'm accomplishing them at 17 years old on my own. I can't call my mom. Yeah, like, they take our phones away, we don't have them.

Like, you can't call anybody for help. You got it, like, you, maybe you got a good bunk mate, maybe you don't. Yeah. And maybe you have an asshole drill sergeant, maybe you don't. But you gotta figure it out.

But the guidelines are there and if you Can't figure it out the struggle. Like some of this is a way to figure things out. And that's where, like, that carried over into wrestling. Man, I don't, things ain't going going around the right way. And I was like.

There's a way to figure this out. I'm going to figure it out. And that's always, I always kept that mindset through everything. I'm like, even when my kids were born, I was like 18. It was tough.

I was scared. I was running from it a little bit, but then I was like, no. You buckle down. I can figure this out. Yeah.

It's not easy. But this is a challenge. And With challenges, it takes it takes time. And it takes persistence and it takes consistency. Yeah.

Like big time. You it like challenges you don't just You don't just solve them. One time. Pressure makes diamonds. Yeah, but you got to keep at it.

You got to keep at it. And eventually it'll happen. But the military taught me that at a young age. And then, right from that, I went right into wrestling. Yeah.

So, getting back to your question, you were 18 when you started training, right? Yeah, 18. But. Like when I first got into wrestling. 12 years old.

My sister, she had a friend that we moved into the neighborhood. She's like, oh, my homegirl, she lives on the street. She has a little brother.

So I walked with her. I was that age where, like, oh, don't go nowhere without your brother.

So, like, all right, Stefan, here we go. All right.

So, it was like that thing. And so, we walked over, like, um, and I met uh, this one dude, the little brother, Kwan, I think. I think his name was. And he was putting in a tape of Armageddon, the Armageddon Hell in a Cell. It was the pay-per-view literally the night before.

And he put the cassette tape in. I was like, the VHS tape. I was like, oh, snap. What's this? He's like, he has this pay-per-view I watched last night.

I couldn't stay up, so we recorded it. And then we watched it. I was like, this is wild. And then he had the figures upstairs in the room. And then we would go down in the basement and we would actually do the matches and stuff.

The figures, then we actually wrestle each other. Then we go to the yards and the fields, do matches out there. And then. I moved away and then I came back. And I found a friend that was in, I knew in middle school.

But I moved away and then came back to high school. And that was that same friend in high school now.

So he moved at the same time too.

Okay. And I was like, and we were at the lunch table, and he's just like, oh, Stefan, hey, what's going on, man? I was like, yo, good seeing you here, man. He's like, and like, they had their little lunch table friends. He's like, this is so-and-so, this is so-and-so, this so-and-so.

And my big cousin Keith, he was part of the group.

So we all. Found our little community. Not that Keith, though. Definitely Keith. He was still big, though.

Gotcha. But they all started talking wrestling. I was like, oh, we watch yada yada yada. And then that's where I really got ingrained with. Depending.

Like lunch table friends. Like, so every week, if you went to lunch table and you didn't watch Chappelle's show last night, or you didn't watch Boondocks night before, or you didn't watch wrestling, you were like assed out at the you weren't part of the laughs, you weren't part of the conversation, nothing.

So, I was like, so you had to watch all those to be in on the group, like, laughs and stuff. Yeah, and the rest is history from there. You got to hit my homie Desmond now. You just made me think of my crew. Yeah.

Like, who was your crew in high school? You had the table. Yeah. You had to, you had to bring something to the table, bro. Yeah, well, we had the homie Desmond.

And also, shout out to, I had a homie, Nobotis, wherever you are, bro. No, Nobotis. He used to sell hot Cheetos at school. He was racking up. And Kool Bears, he was the man, bro.

We had a dude that used to, this was like high school. There's a basketball team, he would go to the gas station across the street and would steal him and put them in his jacket and then sell him. I don't know how nobody's got it. But yeah, he was, bro, he never asked too. Yeah, bro.

He'd have a nice, you know, nice bit of everybody else's money.

So, all right, so as a fan, this is something that. We want to make a common thing around here is to ask, as a fan, do you remember when? Wrestling broke your heart. Like something, a match that didn't go the way you think. Eddie turning on Ray.

Oh, that's a good one. Eddie turning on Ray was like, I really don't like this guy. That was like brain, like, ripped his mask, bloodied brain buster on the steps, left him there, and then walked out.

Next thing you know, the, like, the, the, Like, like Latino, he and it came out, and he's just like stoic as hell. I was like, I don't like this guy, even though he's like one of the greatest to ever do it. Yeah, I didn't like that guy because I was a Ray guy. After this, this will absolutely air when it does air, but it's Eddie's birthday. To that.

Yeah, wow, I did. Yeah, it's Eddie Guerrero's birthday.

So, shout out that. What are the greatest of all time, right? What are the odds of that? That's crazy. Yeah, man.

That won't look at the universe, right? Right? That was crazy, dude. But, like, Ray was my guy. I'll never forget like uh Like, after that friend I was like hanging out with or whatever, I kind of stepped away from like watching wrestling for a little bit.

Yeah. Um We got broke. Didn't have cable.

Sorry. It happens, people. Nothing hits like when you move into the new house and that Comcast cable box comes right onto you. We're back. We're back.

We're so back. Yo. But then you look at other broke people. Ah, you ain't got no cameras. Oh, I got some ass crazy.

You cannot cast my name. Like, guess what? Dragon Ball Z came on last night and it was fire. But you can't watch Cartoon Network. 290 not for me.

Right? Like, look at this. Yeah, drop by his bad. Look at these broke motherfuckers. Oh, so yeah.

That is. And then it got cut off again. But anyway, that's another story. But like, that's why that was back. Right.

So, like, that was like the first SmackDown coming back was like Ray popping up. Yeah. And debuting, and I was like, man, I remember my cousins talking about him back in WCW when we were younger, but I never watched him. And he's like, he stole my heart. I was like, this is my guy, no matter what.

This is my guy. Every SmackDown game that came out. Yeah. Using Ray. Ray was first.

Like, no matter who, I'll play with everybody, but Ray was the first one. You got to start with Ray for me. That was how it went on. And so yeah, that was like my And ever since then, but I remember getting in arguments with people whether his finisher was the 619 or the West Coast pop. Like, we would get into full debate.

No, it's the full thing. One leg to the other. You say the whole name at once. Yeah, it's like, it's like a one-two punch, but like, we're here for the 619, right?

So, as a Ray fan, then you must have been mortified when Kevin Nash threw him off the production truck. I wasn't watching that at that point. Yeah, yeah. Like, I was like, I'll check this up later. You've seen it, though, right?

Yeah, yeah. Watching it when it happened, I was like, Kevin Nash just killed that man. He threw him like a long time. Standard Kevin Nash thing to do, by the way. Crush dreams.

Right. Oh, no. No, shout out to Big Sexy. It'll be great. Shout out.

Let me throw you like a dart. I was thinking about convincing him to do it. I'm like, I wonder how that conversation went. Come on, that'd be great. Obviously, you know, if you're on the Twitter world, there's a common joke how swear was fumbled.

You know, like we fool, and there's a lot of people who have the it factor, and we. During your time at NXT, we could see it in you. Is there anybody Now that you want to big up, that you see that just needs that opportunity, people that you're a fan of, that you are. are in the business with now? Oh, Cedric Alexander.

Yeah. Big time. That's my brother. I was I was literally uh one of the groomsmen in his wedding. Oh.

That's cool. Like um when I moved to Florida, um he was one of the people that really held me down. Like when I I c we couldn't get a couch. Him and uh Malachi Black pitched in money for me to buy a couch for the apartment. And everything.

So it was like community couch. You know, I still got that couch to this day because, like, I just, I will never get rid of it because of that. You know. Like, uh so Cedric was like instrumental in me like that that little space in between them like Um Taking it to the next level on the indies, not as kill shot, but on the indies. It was working with Cedric.

I had like two, three matches with him on the indies, and that's where it was like, okay. I'm figuring it out, I'm getting it and stuff. Um Yeah, but Cedric is so much So much raw unadulterated talent in that man. And even with himself, I think he's still nervous to fully express himself. But you never get that until you push them and give them that.

Open time and I think he needs that. Yeah. I think he needs that. And like they just re-signed him for like another three years.

So like. You invest in him. Yeah. You showed that investment in him, and I want to see more investment in him. Because there's a lot of people that can learn from him, and there's a lot.

that the fan base can like learn from just watching 'em. And I'm I'm what I'm I still want it for him so bad. That's not like that's like a A brother that I a name that I don't throw out too much often, but like, yeah, Cedric for sure. And uh, shout out EJ and Dunka as well. He has a lot to offer and he's hungry.

You guys are training together, right? Yeah, yeah, major, major training, you know, and he he has a lot of um that. Like I wanna I wanna prove to the world, not to like Anybody specifically, just like I just want to prove it to the world that he knows how good he can be and what he can offer. And I see it in him too. I've talked to him.

Had these conversations, and he's dedicated that week in and week out, day in, day out, he's on it. Whether training or in the ring, he's training and he's working on it.

So Like, pay attention to him and uh Lee Johnson, the ring of honor when they're doing their thing, you know. You know, because the fan base, if there's anything I can say to the fan base, if you have guys that you like and your fate, you, your favorites, you know, like, I like EJ a lot. I'm like, watch him. Like, don't wait for him to watch, like, to from for them to get on TV to watch him. Watch him.

Where they're at now, watch them now, and then help push them to where they want them to eventually go to. But don't just like, oh man, I'll wait till he gets up to AEW. I'm like, no, no, watch him in Ring of Honor. Yeah, you can be you can be responsible for that. Y'all were responsible for me getting my opportunities because.

Snowballs. Yeah, but like watch them at the where they're at. And then put help push them and catapult them. The fan base does that. Yeah.

You know, you mentioned Kill Shot.

So that makes me want to go back to 2014. You signed with Lucha Underground. We really hadn't seen anything like Lucha Underground. Let's talk about your time there and your experiences and what you learned being a part of. Like I said earlier in the interview, a challenge.

It was a challenge. That's one of the most competitive rosters that you'll ever see in wrestling. And AEW is like that too, in a lot of senses. But like Lucha Underground was just like filled with the premier, like. Like athletes of from Mexico, from America, from Canada, from UK.

Everybody was coming in in a melting pot and we're trying to figure it out. Like What can we create? Because now the universe is endless. We got time travelers, we got dragons. Like, people can die and come back to life.

Like, Brian K just punching people's faces out. Like, it was, it was crazy.

So, like, we can really stretch this as far as we can. It's like, it's. Nothing we can't do.

So that is where like the challenge was like, okay, I'm not a luchador because I can't lucha as good as Aerostar. I can't lucha as good as Phoenix. I'm not going to. There's no way. I'm not going to outluch you those guys.

I can't Like I can't flash as good as John Morrison or Johnny Mundo at the time, you know. Like, I can't fly higher than Puma. I can't jump further than Angelico. Like there's so. Can anyone jump further than Angelico?

No, because he got it all. He got it all. Like that moment, it was like, boom, that changed. Everything for Lucha. It was like that open that moment opened up the doorway for what's possible in that temple.

And that was like Wow. That that really is where it took. Like everything over the edge. Mm. So like shout out to Angelico for that moment because that's what I think that moment bust Lucha Underground wide open.

Yeah. Wow, what can really happen on this show? Yeah, he was on the balcony, right? He did it twice. He did a running, jumping, crossbody, and then they had the ladder match for the trio size.

He did the running, jumping, dropkick. That's right.

So, like, which is crazy on the body, both of them. Insane, y'all talk about me and what I go through. That is insane. That's a lot. That's like pushing the body's limits, that's parkour.

on television Like what these guys are doing, like on the street. Like, that was he was doing that in the ring. He took it to that level.

Now you're seeing where the parkour is like the level is at.

Now it's the same thing. Like I would say it's very synonymous with one another.

So with that is like, okay. Here's my challenge. How do I fit into this? Where does a kill shot military character? lie in a universe.

Like, that's mystic. That's time traveling that's Characters passed down through centuries, then a Mil Muertes, then a Montanza coming in. Like, how do I. Punch through this. And so like they put me in a program one week with uh Marty the Moth.

And I was like, Marty, Marty, Marty, Marty. What can I do with Marty? What can I do with Marty? What can I do with it? And it's not even like, what can I do with Marty?

What can Marty do with me? And what can. What would these two characters interactions be like. Take away the ring. How would they just interact?

Like, hmm. He's a big child. He's a big child and he wants to be involved like He wants toys. He wants to collect. I'm a toy, I'm an action figure as a military character.

And I went the military character because I didn't want to be a part of the Lucha heritage. I wanted to go somewhere like I'm like an outsider coming into the Lucha heritage.

So that kind of like put me on a different plane. And I wrote the whole character. And He was like, and so, like, we had the thing, it was like, he sees me as a toy, as a.

Something you can play with. I'm not something you, someone you play with. Yeah. I'm a weapon of mass destruction.

So Um What do I have that he would want? My dog tags. I put a token around the dog tags. Oh, he took that from me, and we did a little back and forth. But they wanted to cut the story right there.

I was like, me and him went to the store, went to the Krista Joseph, who was writing the show. I was like, Can we fight to a DQ? and he keeps the dog ties and we keep running with it. They were like Actually, yeah. Mm.

Yeah. Line, line, line, line through the script. And we just, they gave it to us. Same amount of time, but we just gave it. We wanted more.

And we, and I think. one of the key elements to like booking and convincing a booker. And every element is when two people collab and want to do it together. Right. I think that always helps.

Yeah. Instead of like one person talking and then the other person talking and going behind the back talking and then going behind the and so and then now they got to pull them into the room and make it work. That's seen both sides believe in it. Yeah. Like, no, like.

No, I don't want to beat him. I think we should do this. Can we do that? Yeah, if you guys agree with it, then they know they're going to get the best product on camera when two guys know that this is what they want to do. And I want to make him better.

I always want to make also one of my big things, I always want to make my competitors. bigger than me, stronger than me, faster than me. Oh, they always have to be better than me in in something. I have my skills that have to overcome that, but they always gotta be bigger, faster, stronger. With Marty's case, I found the key element of like, what if I'm one who doesn't give up, but he's someone that won't go down?

How does that clash?

So it's like bangs, chair to the head. He laughs it off and gets back up. Oh my god. He throws me on some crates. Boom.

He's laughing. I already get back up too. He's like. Why won't you stay down? And I'm like, he won't stay down.

So this is the same thing, but it's just two different ways we're saying it.

So it's just like that clash of things like that. And then. Then, when it got to the Dante Fox thing, your Hell of War image? Yes, which ESPN said was one of the quote. Most brutal contest ever televised in professional wrestling.

I was like, I challenged you. What an honor. No, but that was, that's huge. And for that to be on like two African-American wrestlers, you don't see that often. They always think, like, Like I said, there's this uh Stereotype of like what you said earlier.

You're talking about rapper son. Yeah. Gonna come in with an entourage. They already stereotyped you and put you in a box before you even. Show it up before you show your face.

I think they do that with black wrestlers too. Like, okay, he's gonna be flashy. He's gonna have hip-hop. He's gonna be this. He's gonna be that.

Let's give him this. Let's give him, they already put it on you before you actually show who you are. Ours was like nothing hip hop. We were two military people. that have a brotherhood with each other.

that aren't flashy. Like Character-wise, Board. Direct. We want to hurt and we want to kill and we know each other.

So it was like very far left of what The depiction is what we are, the stereotype that's already out there, or like what's very common.

So that I think that's another reason why that stood that stands the test of time still. is because we're seeing We're not seeing like To Black Russell is performing as Black Wrestle. We're seeing two fighters. Two fighters. We're seeing two soldiers.

We're seeing two killers. go at each other, regardless of color. Those guys, we could have been. any ethnicity and you would have still got that same effect. You know.

It doesn't change the story at all. But just the brutality of that. The brutality is what takes it over the like and like the fact that like He he knows me. I know him. Tit for tat.

I can do it, but he does it better. I can do this. He does it better. I can do this. I can pick him up, but he's stronger.

It's like Dallas looks like someone who's just topping you at every single move because we know each other, and he's the big brother that you just can't. takedown until one day you eventually overcome and you take him down. He is this Wolverine Sabertooth. Yeah. There's the best way to put that.

So how would feel at the end when You finally got that ambulance door. I was like, it's over. Right. I was about to have it. It's over.

What's the next day? It's something we talk about wrestling. We appreciate. You guys and you ladies putting your bodies on the line, but sometimes you sit there and you feel. You don't.

You don't think you had to do that. And that's how that match was. You guys did some things to each other that was tough to watch. Once again, it was that challenge. We met the challenge and we wanted to just not meet it, but we wanted to just blow it out of the water.

This is Ultima Lucha. You know, the year before the main event was like Puma and Rey killed it. One of the best matches I've ever seen, live to this day. Um Then, I like, so we that was the bar. Like, okay, how do we how do we smash through this bar?

And How do we make this unforgettable that like just travels with us? And When the match was like put together, it was like do we have enough? Do we have enough? Insane. Kind of too late.

We gotta go. We just do it, right? Yeah. So, like, it was like, it was one of those things. It's like you're making a painting and you're just like looking at it aside, and then you're like, huh, does it need more?

Right. Like, if I gotta do that, it's fine the way it is.

So, we left it, and then like, we just let the performance just. Seep through. That's what's going to take us over the top. The fact that, like, we know why these guys are here, we know why they're trying to hurt each other. And We're here for the spectacle, and but we're also here for the emotional tie.

It's almost like the finish was just like very Shakespearean of like, I didn't want to do this to my brother, but I said, no man left behind, pick him up. I put him in the ambulance, boom. Because I'm not going to leave you for dead. Right. Like how why we started this in the first place.

You always end the way you started. And like, do I See it, do I close that? Or do I leave it open-ended? Right. And then Funny that you said what we would like the next day.

Well, that night I went to a little Wayne concert at Staple Center. Oh, wow. Wow, boy. Me and Famous B, shout out Famous B. Went to, because we bought them tickets like a month, two months ago.

Oh, he was going regarding. But I was like, oh, Snap, I got to do a La War match. Oh, Snap. I got to go.

So I'm like, we parked up the street, and I'm like, On the street, limping, blood, going down the bandage, going to the staple center, and like him and two chains headlined it. It was fun. But the next day, which remember, we taping, we taping like. Blocks.

So it airs a week later. Yeah. It was on TV. It was a week later. But the next day, we had to have the Trios tag title match.

Oh, no, man. And that's a worthy scheduling. And then we won the Trios titles, but we're like falling apart. Fox is bleeding all over again on the back. We're bandaged up.

Yeah. Yeah, so like it aired a week later, but really it was the next day. That's nice. And if people haven't seen that match, do yourself a favor, check it out on YouTube. Kill shot against Dante Fox Lucha on the ground.

And I'm matching it. With an intimate venue like that, you got kings after that. Man, that Pokemon season is like. Oh, this is so much easier. I don't got to earn it anymore.

I earned it. Like, now it's like, they hear that name, and everybody stands up. That's what you want. But like, then people wonder, like, why you do this to yourself? You, you do it for that.

Yeah. You do it because, like, no matter what, we earn that. Yeah. And because, like, I remember, like, that building is so, it's part of the ring. Like, jumping off of this, doing this, doing that, going through the office window, yumming here, going, like, the entranceway, the band playing up top.

You can fall. It's all a part of, like, that's a part of the character of the show as well.

So, like, being like changing in the room. behind you Is the wall you're sharing the same wall with the fans? And so that's do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, hero.

So you're feeling it and rumbling through why you're changing and stuff. It feels like, like, you ever watch a Monkey Man? Yeah, Monkey Man. Like, being how he's changing, you're still hearing the people just rumbling. It feels like that.

Okay. Like, so Lucha. Yeah, Lucha Underground and Monkey Man, that element is just like, it's almost like Ungbach type of the underground feel. And, like, that coloring, the filter over the filter over the film? Yeah, yeah.

That's what I always like. reminisced with it. I I connected it with those movies. I know, I know, I know it always cuts off right when it's getting good. I understand.

It's like an old episode of UWF back in the day. Every episode would end with Jim Ross going, Oh my god, we're out of town. See you next week. It was always like that. We're like the UWF for podcasts.

It only hurts when it's a good episode. But we will continue and we will give you guys part two. In part two, Swerve talks about what it means to him to be the first black AEW champion. We also get into that contract. It's a pretty lucrative contract.

It's a really historical contract. Quite historical. They don't. say they numbers like they make actors do. But anyway, yeah, so we're getting into that.

And obviously our standard questions here at No Contest Wrestling, we're asking him, you know, his Hall of Fame matches. Three of them. His three Hall of Fame matches now that he's part of the No Contest Wrestling Hall of Fame. And also my favorite question, give me four wrestlers to get you out of that bar. You know, that bar fight, that 50-man bar fight, which, by the way, that question has blown up on all of our sites.

It's a fun question. It's a fun question because everyone's got their. I mean, we're seeing. I think what people have to understand is. He didn't have a time to think about this.

No, we hit him with it. And I think he was thinking more people who were here right now. He wasn't thinking about going back in time. We don't do all time. We'll maybe get into that later.

But for right now, it's like we were looking at the current people. He can't get Harley Wace from 75 right now. He just can't. The more we get some legendary guests, legends got to go all time. That's true.

But we'll get into that. And also, you know, guys, we deal with hypotheticals all the time. No doubt. A hypothetical question is like a guy's lead to conversation.

So that's where that question comes from. He answers that in a lot more. Thank you, Swear Strickland, for part one and part two. Make sure you guys come back to the next one. Thanks for not turning on Nana, too.

Yeah, bro. That was, TJ was stressed. I was. This is the No Contest Wrestling Podcast. Thank you guys for tuning in.

Peace.

Okay. Bingo. All right, Bill, we're recording now. And please put your phone on silent. Oh, where is my phone?

Let's go, man. Get it together over there, player. Go ahead, pick on me the way that you want to. I would say that to my son. Just go.

All right, why would people want to listen to the Sims Complete podcast? Father-son, dynamic duo, talking about the game of football. We do a lot of quarterback and coach talks. It's fun. I love doing this.

It's been awesome. Sims Complete. Check us out on the Believe Network. Appreciate it. Just search Believe, B-L-E-A-V, wherever you listen.

Yep.