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Not all purchases will be approved. Terms apply. Learn more at AmericanExpress.com/slash Amex Business. Hey, everybody, great seeing you on this edition of What the Football. Amy and Susie, thrilled to be with you because Rod Woodson will be joining us.
And I have my glasses on to start because I can't read a damn thing. But his resume is so insane that I wanted to share it all with you. The six-time first-team all-pro, including 2002, his first year as a raider, when he was. And by the way, the last time he made it, he was thirty seven years old. Rod Woodson seemingly is unstoppable.
He was the nineteen ninety three Defensive Player of the Year, eleven Pro Bowl selections. Three Super Bowls with three teams. That's insane, Amy. And obviously, one with you, and I'm sorry it wasn't a win, but. But Rod did have a very, very, very special play that season that I.
I'm going to thank him for again and again and again. Obviously, winning the Super Bowl with the Ravens in 2000, destroying the Giants. But what a monster of defense Rod Woodson was. And it'll be great to have him on to talk about what he is seeing firsthand with Lamar Jackson and with Derrick Henry. And we'll ask him about the other breaking news of the day.
We taped this obviously on a Tuesday.
So we'll talk to him about Devontae Adams and Amari Cooper as well. I love Rod Woodson personally. My first year at ABC was going into the 2000 season. And uh was it two thousand? No, two thousand and three.
And, you know, the It was still a little bit different with people on the sidelines back then. And I came out of Fox Sports where it was me and a bunch of Playboy Playmates.
So it was my job to know everything a lot better. And I said to Rod, I really want to be able to read the offense on the field. Can you teach me cover two? Can you teach me all the different. And I bet he did.
Do you know that he sat me down at NFL Network and he drew up plays and diagrams and literally taught me the intricacies of the cover, too? And so when I started, I was with Mike Torico and Tim Brandt. Terry Badden and I think it's a very in a four booth you know team you don't get on all that much but I was really lucky that Mike wanted me to be an integral part of the team, but. Because I really felt so solid about what he taught me, I was that much better of a reporter. But how sick is that to have Rod Woodson teach you mechanics of football?
Because Rod did what the best people do. Which is, he helped you to be your best. And many, many people know him to be a tremendous, tremendous player. He's an even more tremendous man. Yeah, he's erudite to say the least.
And, you know, he was one of the early guys that was on NFL Network with Rich when they launched it.
So we got to spend an unusual amount of time with him. And I was just thrilled that he would take the time during the season to come on and talk to us about everything that's going on.
So we will get to that. Very soon. Guys, unless you're under a rock, I don't know that you have missed Jerry Jones. Um Having a moment. Two days after his birthday, uh he Called in to his usual radio address.
He has got a weekly show. I think Rich was saying 1051. It is. I think it's 1053. I don't know.
But it is their flagship station. It is their flagship station in Dallas. And let's share a little bit of this with you. Let's just say that I wouldn't want to be the two guys on the other end of the radio line with Mr. Jerry Jones today.
you think I'm interested in damn phone call with you over a radio. And sitting here and throwing all the good out with the dishwater, you have got to be smoking something over there this morning. I'm not. And I really don't. And I don't even want our listeners to listen to me.
uh to talk about this is not your job. Your job isn't to let me go over all the reasons that I did something, and I'm sorry that I did it. That's not your job.
Well, my job is to ask questions. That's my job, or I'll get somebody else to ask these questions, man. Jerry, we're just trying to figure out why the team is. I'm not kidding you. I'm not kidding you.
You're not going to figure out it's uh what the team is doing right or wrong. If you are, or any five or ten like you, You need to come to this meeting I'm going to today. There are 32 teams here. You're geniuses. Yeah, I've had to ask a lot of questions.
I've had to be on the other end of a lot of uh uncomfortable interviews, so to say, but Man, I was not ready. For Jerry Jones to basically come back and say, I'm going to find somebody else to replace you if you don't change your line of questioning. They ask questions. that were fair.
Well, it's interesting, you and I are coming at this from two different perspectives. You're coming from the perspective of one who has asked questions. I look at this from the perspective, or I immediately thought of this from the perspective, of one who worked in an organization where the team owner Did or shared with the media things that Perhaps it should not have been done. And I will always remember. Look, Susie, what this reminded me of is the time that Al Davis referred to Adam Schefter as a rumor mongerer.
And the reason I'm putting an emphasis on mongerer is for the following reason. I didn't know Al was going to do that. And there's a reason I didn't know. Had he let me know ahead of time that he was going to do that, I would have done everything humanly possible to try to convince him not to. But he didn't let me know.
He worked directly with someone in our PR department. They issued the statement. I first saw it when it came across the computer screen. I printed it out and I was so angry when I walked into his office. I was shaking, and all I could think to say was: mongerer isn't even a word, which it's not.
My point in sharing this is: I don't know if anyone in the Cowboys organization knew that Jerry was going to head in that direction if he was pushed as he was pushed. I don't know if anyone could have convinced him not to do it. I don't know that I could have convinced Al not to do what he did. But that was quite a tirade we heard. And I'll end with this note on that.
Those kind of tirades happen all the time within organizations. We just don't often hear them on air. Were you surprised to hear Jerry be that vociferous? No, I wasn't. I was surprised he did it on air.
I was not surprised with his passion. Um, with his you know, I I wasn't surprised by what he did. I was surprised that it was aired. The NFL is changing so much. There aren't that many owners left that are like Jerry, like Al, where you play the role of GM.
And you own the team, and you surround yourself with family, or what have you. And the question is. Are we seeing an era gone by? I mean, can you really? Can you really do both jobs?
Well, that's a phenomenal question for two reasons. Um first of all, when you are the owner of a business, Whether it's a football team or otherwise, you have ultimate authority and ultimate control and ultimate responsibility.
So, yeah, sure, you can bring people in to be the GM, to run the organization. But you have the authority to fire them.
So ultimately, you have ultimate authority and thus ultimate responsibility. The reason I think your question is so wonderful. Is because as we see franchise values grow and grow and grow, we are far less likely to see instances in which the team owner can be or should be running the football operations. Look, Al is a Hall of Fame man. He was a football man.
Jerry knows football. But when you're now someone who can afford to buy a team, Chances are you weren't a coach. Chances are you didn't work your way up in football.
So I think it's a phenomenal question for a lot of reasons. And you just wonder where the checks and balances are because he's surrounded by family. That is absolutely the key. Every single business needs a system of internal controls and checks and balances, whether it's family-owned or otherwise. Yeah, I wonder if we're seeing.
some kind of um transition. Because the you know the I it made me think within the league as a whole? Mm-hmm. And it made me think, it was funny, it made me think Parcelian, because that's just where my brain goes about. He's shopping for the groceries.
He's paying for the groceries. And he can lock the door, Jerry Jones. It takes it a whole other step further. Yeah, and it goes to my point, which is when you are the controlling owner of any business, you have absolute authority. You thus have absolute responsibility.
So even if Jerry hired someone, He has the authority to fire him.
So ultimately, control rests with a controlling owner. But I just think, and I've said this a number of times, but I've turned into my mom, so I'm going to repeat myself. Your question about is this something that's going to wane over time or is waning? Is really, really astute because the more franchise values grow, the less likely we are to see this. Yeah, I mean, that's what I was just thinking about as we look at some of these other owners and.
You know, tepper came to mind right away. Does it scare you that you and I had the same thought? Does that kind of frighten you a little bit? Yes, yeah, it should. But we do spend a lot of time together.
But Tepper's exact the the precise person of whom I thought when you raised this. Yeah. Because, you know, there are certain owners that, you know. are getting in there and I mean, we watched this happen in New England where it's like a myriad of times where where the the the coach GM, whatever, there's a separation of church and state.
Well, look when you buy a business And many of the people who, well, let me separate it into categories. If you buy a team, You have every right to Do whatever you want with it as the controlling owner, if and to the extent the other owners in the organization are comfortable with that. But a lot of teams that have been inherited. You know, we see, you know, I won't take your time now, but I could go through and name a handful of teams that have been inherited. And I don't know that we're going to see that much anymore.
Unless people know how to do a state tax really, really, really well, which some of us did. Yeah, I wouldn't even know. I would not have wanted to be those guys on the other end of the radio crackle. I mean, I've been on the other end of some conversations and some questions where my blood has gone cold. But that was like, I'm sure I can't understand.
Your blood going cold. I just cannot fathom it. But by the way, We mentioned this earlier, that's their flagship radio station. And what that means is they have a business arrangement with that station, and the phone calls that happened. After that Interaction would have been fascinating.
Some people loved hearing the interaction. I would have rather been privy to the calls that happened after that. 105.3 the fan. I mean, my God, what a day to be on the other end of that and to take those calls as well. Because by the way, that is have you ever done that?
Have you ever taken phone calls from people? I don't remember if I've ever done it on the radio, but I've done Ask Amy's, which I love Ask Amy's. Yeah, I love taking calls. Anybody knows, like, when I sit in for Rich. The phone lines.
Oh right, you know. 18 was it 844-204 Rich? I think we don't have a number for what the football. I want a number. You know what?
And anybody listening to or watching What the Football, it's. Ah. What at WT Football? Podcast on Instagram. Send us questions.
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Terms apply. Learn more at AmericanExpress.com/slash Amex Business. And as promised, Rod Woodson joins us now. Rod, so great to see you. Amy and I are basically fighting over who has better stories about you, but that's a whole nother podcast.
Yeah. I hope they're good stories.
Well, I have a memory of you, Rod, that will live in my heart forever. 2002 season, we open, we're 4-0. And then we go 0 and 4. And we couldn't put a finger on why we were losing, but we were 0 and 4. Eight games in.
Ninth game, we're at Denver, and it's really season deciding. You intercepted a pass and you ran it back ninety eight yards. I was standing up upstairs. Go Rod Go Rod You turned the game around, You thus turned the season around. And I want to tell you something.
Every time I think of that, including right this minute, I get covered in goosebumps.
So thank you very much again and again and again.
Well, I appreciate it. And I'm glad they had oxygen on the sideline because I could not breathe for the rest of the game. I'm late in my career and I'm running. I'm going, I can't breathe. And my legs are getting really heavy right now.
We could tell. Rod Smith kept coming over, and I'm looking at Rod chasing me. And I'm like, Rod, stop. I just want to walk in. But it was a great moment.
Got to play in the Super Bowl with my. My childhood team, the Raiders, unfortunately, we didn't get to win though.
Well, just so you know, the other thing I was screaming from upstairs was: get him oxygen, get him oxygen. How are you able to play that?
Nowadays, they have oxygen on a soft line. How are you able to play at that level, Rod, at thirty seven? You know, you get as you get older. I mean, first of all, let me go back when I first came into the league. I was very blessed when I first came into the league.
And I had some great teachers and Tony Dungy. uh for my first couple years and then another guy named rod russ which a lot of people don't know his name But very, very smart defensive coach who really kind of changed my mentality of how I. study film and watch film. And then I got Dick LeBo and Dom Capers and Bill Coward for the next five years.
So, my first 10 years, I just had so much knowledge getting poured into me. It was just that much easier to play at a later date in my career where, yeah, I wasn't as fast, I wasn't as quick. I just saw everything a little bit faster than I did before. And I believed it. And I think that was the biggest reason I could have played at a high level later in my career.
And I think I still have the record for the Otis. Player leading the league in interceptions. Yes, you do. You know, so, you know, I give a lot of credit to my coaches. You know, God gave me natural ability, and then those coaches honed that ability my first 10 years in the league.
Who was the single most impactful coach you had of all those guys that you just mentioned? oh wow that's so that's so unfair Because there's so many, because you know, I learned so much from Shakno. You know, and more stuff outside of football from Chuck, and what things he would say consistently. Tony Dungy was that guy that kind of loved on me when I first came into the league. And Dick LeBeau, who was a great player and a great coach.
But I give probably the most credit to Rod Russ because he was the one. At the moment that I needed it, and I was disrespecting him in a walkthrough. You know, we were having a walkthrough inside. I wasn't paying attention. He cussed me out, MF'd me all the way through and through.
And then he challenged me. to learn the game. He says, you're a great athlete.
Now you just need to learn the game. And I don't know why I said it, but something just came out of me. I said, well, teach me. And he said, all right. And then So me and him went into his office for four straight weeks, four and a half weeks.
And his first question when I walked into the office the first day was, how many formations can an offense get into? And I was stunned. I'm like 750. And he was like, no. How many eligible receivers?
I said, five. He was like, they can get in five formations. They can get in a two by one. They can get in slot. If they go one back, they can get in two by two, three by one.
and then go empty. And he said, all they do is put different personnel groupings together, move these pieces around, they have a final formation, and most offenses only run about four to five to six plays out of that formation. irrelevant of the personnel grouping. And I started watching it, and probably like three and a half weeks, four weeks into it. That little green light clicked on, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is all they do?
And he was like, yeah, you just got to believe it when you see it.
So if he didn't challenge me. I probably would have made plays and I probably would have been good because I had talent. But I wouldn't have been able to be. The longevity I had from playing because I just saw the game at a slower pace after he taught me that. Rod, I will let Susie dive into some terrific topics, but not before noting that the story you just shared is very, very special and meaningful.
It is said that a teacher can change a life, and I too had a teacher who challenged me and changed my life. She certainly changed the trajectory of my life.
So that you just shared that about your coach is really special. You want to give your teacher a shout out? I mean, come on.
Well, she's no longer here, but I will tell you this. She really did change the trajectory of my life. It was Mrs. Hernandez in the 10th grade. And when I started advancing within the organization, I don't remember whether this was before or after Al named me CEO, I sent her a thank you letter.
That's awesome. And I said, You changed the trajectory of my life because you believed I was better than I thought I could be. Rod, before we go on to topics of the day because clearly we stepped in it with Devontae Adams. I'm just curious because you said that the game like it it kind of sped up for you there. It's funny that Marshall Falk always says the game slows down and you said that y it sped up.
I'm just curious about And if you could kind of elucidate on how to do that. How you saw the game.
Well, just in a way that You know, after I met with Coach. You know, he would say. Self-doubt heals. Doubt kills on the field. When you hesitate, it kills you on the field.
AND After going through that process with him, and I started studying film on my own, I just started believing. And everything I saw on the field. And I'm like, oh my goodness. And sometimes I was too aggressive on the field, and I would get me to go double moves. But I And I would make plays.
And I think one of the other things that he got to, he taught me was like, Never be disrespectful to your coaches. Always say yes, say you believe in what they're doing. But sometimes in your head as a filter, the really good players have a filter in their head and they hear their coach. But when they step on the field, they still do something a little bit different than what the coach said to them. I mean, it's kind of like he'd always tell me to say, shake your head, say yes, and smile, but in your head, say, oh.
F no, I am not doing that. I am doing something else because you're not going to get the blame.
So, you know, that's one of the great things that I believe he taught me. And I took that for the rest of my career after that. And after that, I went to seven straight pro polls before I got injured with my knee and my ACL.
So what do you think then when you see players like Max Crosby clearly get heated and maybe even get into it with a coach? It happens. I mean, I can't say that I've never yelled at Mecho's before because I have. I've seen it multiple times. It happens.
When you're a competitor, And the coaches, and a lot of all the coaches are still competitors. They want to win. They want their groups, and they want the defense, the offense, and the team to win. Crosby is a huge competitor. And he wants.
better success for the team. Like he plays great football, but collectively they don't.
So. You know, seeing a shove by him, was it a love tap? Was it like, hey, back up for a second? Not really sure because I'm not in the building. But what I can say is it happens quite often.
I've seen it over the years. And it's no, normally it's going to, it happens. 30 seconds later, we're talking about it. After the game, we're hugging and we're having a beer. That's exactly right.
I agree with you, Rod. And the thing I always say when fans criticize or condemn players or coaches from getting into it on the sideline, which is you don't get to have it both ways, you don't get to expect Your players to be passionate when they're on the field and to play with that passion, but to turn the off switch on that passion the minute they step off the field. If you want your players to play with passion, and we all do, you got to understand that passion doesn't just shut off the minute they come off the grass. No, it doesn't. And it's, you know, a lot of people.
You see the coaches there, and the coaches are normally calm on the sideline for the most part, thinking that they don't have this inner drive. But all coaches have an inner drive, you know, and most of the coaches who played in the league definitely have an inner drive, and it's still in them. And I think sometimes that comes out. uh right wrong or indifferent and i think You can't take anything with a grain of salt when things happen within a game. Things are said, things happen on the sideline in the game, in the locker room.
But as soon as it's over, you got to put it to bed. And because you don't put it to bed, Then that toxic chemistry starts coming into the locker room, into the building, in the meeting room, or even down the hallway. And that's what you don't want. Because once that starts coming in, You're not going to have a good season. God, I have so many questions now and I keep going in different directions.
But what do you think the environment's like right now in Las Vegas in that locker room? Yeah, that's, you know, it's hard to say because I'm not there. Um But when you lose First of all, nobody's happy. The owner's not happy, the general manager's not happy, the coaches are not happy, none of the personnel guys are happy because somebody's going to get in trouble for it, right? And then.
You know My biggest theme would not just the Raiders. The league in general, the league has gone young. And when I came into the league, I had veterans on my team who could. be those buffers, right?
So Donnie's Shell John Stalward, Mike Webster, those guys were still playing. They were older guys. And we had multiple guys who were eight years, you know, five, six, seven, eight year guys.
Well, now the league is really young.
So if you're a third-year guy, you're a vet. And, but the third-year guy still learned how to play football. And for me, You got to find those, you got to find a group of veterans that can be in a locker room. And I love, if I got to take a veteran, and a rookie. I'm taking a veteran.
Because I know the veteran knows how to be in a locker room. I know he knows how to play under the lights. And if it gets too messy, he's not going to be afraid. And I think that's the biggest thing. Trying to find those leaders in the locker room.
Right now, it's a little messy over there in Vegas, in that locker room. With that being said. Still a long season. They've got to figure it, they have to, the players also have to figure it out. The coaches got to put the game plan together, but the players got to buy into what type of chemistry, what type of culture do I want in my locker room on a daily basis.
And they have to adhere to that culture daily. And they have to hold everybody to fire. of that culture when you're in the building and even when you're out of the building. And a really good friend and a really good teammate.
Well, tell a guy when he's going sideways. He doesn't agree with somebody. And one thing I grew up in in the era where if you work on sideways, oh, we had a bunch of guys in that locker room to say, you do that one more time, you're going to be laying on the grind. And you know, the only thing I'll add to what Rod said is. Absolutely correct as to all the areas he noted it impacts the coaches, the personnel, the GM.
Let me tell you, these things impact the entire organization. They permeate every department: your marketing departments, your ticket departments, your community affairs department, your customer service department. And by the way, if every single person in the organization isn't feeling the impact, they shouldn't be in the organization. Yeah. Well, let me ask you this: they're clearly going to be doing it without Devontae Adams now.
now joining the Jets. What are your thoughts on how he changes the dynamic of that team? I don't know if he does. I know he's a great route runner. I know he's a special player.
collectively, it just seems like something's missing. With the Jets. I don't know what it is because I'm not there, but it just seems like when you're watching it from outside in, To lose that many close games year after year after year, it's just something's not there. And normally when I Say it's not there. I'm going to talk.
The first thing I'm going to go to is leadership.
Well, who's the leaders? Who are the leaders? on the offense for the New York Jets. Can you guys answer one of those, that one? Do you believe Aaron Rodgers at this point in his career or otherwise is a leader?
I do not think he is. I think he has the power. And he has a voice. But is he that guy that upslifts the rest of the team? Because a leader brings everybody with them, right?
From the front or the back, either. But a leader Galvanizes the group, making everybody feel important, making everybody feel like they belong. That's what a leader is. Um Is it Is it Aaron? I'm not sure.
I would think not at this stage of his career because. You know, he has one foot probably in retirement, and the guy has played so great for his long. For the length of his career But it's just not going the way that I'm pretty sure that he wants to write it going to New York. and the rest of the fan base and the rest of the organization. You know, defensively, who's the leader?
On the defensive side of it. On a consistent basis, that you see rally the troops on the sideline when things are going wrong. I haven't seen anybody do it yet. And if nobody does that for them this year. Then the vaulty atoms doesn't matter.
I guess the only thing I would add to that is, in my view, the best leaders take all blame. and give all credit to others. And I don't see Aaron do that. I don't see Aaron take blame for anything. No, especially even with that last interception last night.
I mean, he was not saying that's on me. I underthrew it. He was saying, well, he should have got to the ball. No, well, you would have threw it. Like for me, I'm going to take ownership.
And you're You have to take ownership of what you do. Wrong. And once you'd like to see a guy pat him on it, like when you can see a guy, say, hey, it's my bad, my bad. I did it. My bad.
Won't happen again. Those are the guys that you say, okay, those are the guys that I like, those are the guys we can build. A team around. But Aaron's in his career, in his, you know. At this point of his career, that he he's pointing you can't point fingers You just can't do it.
When you start pointing fingers, it's just nothing, nothing really comes. Good of that, especially in a small community where you're in the same locker room and building with each other. for such a long period of time. You gotta figure out how to like make everything Be as smooth as possible.
Well, for Aaron, He's played so great, the guys will listen to him if he has something worthy to say, but it has to be holding themselves accountable. And his teammates account. Yeah, you know, it's funny because I think most people would come on here and and just dive right into how Devontae Adams changes the offense. But I think what you're basically saying is this is about character and Aaron Rodgers his whole career. Green Bay and now He's not that guy that's going to say, Come here, guys, let's go out.
Let's pull this together. There's a lot of finger pointing. And not a lot of personal accountability. And that's the way he is with the media, and that's the way he seems to be with his teammates. even though it's clear that Devontae Adams wants to go play with him again.
But I'm curious about your thoughts. And why not? And I don't know how he was with Green Bay and maybe he was a leader over there. Because they had some great teams, and Devontae Adams and Aaron Rodgers. had some tremendous years together in Green Bay.
I'm just saying, coming to the Jets. for Devontae Adams is not going to be Green Bay 2.0. because they're both further along in their careers. Yeah. You still got to have your offensive line protect.
Aaron Rodgers, so he can throw the ball to Devontae Adams and the rest of the players that they have on that roster.
So, you know. Does he is he a better Is he a good ad to the team? Yes, he is a great ad to the team. Does he make a difference in the bigger scheme of things? I don't think so.
And that's what I mean. Like, I'm not saying he's not a great player because I think he is a great player. He's an awesome player. But does he make a difference to the football team, to the 53-man roster? Yes, he's a better player coming on the air.
for that 53rd spot. I mean, he's going to be an active player. But I think the overall aspect of what this team is right now. Does he make a difference in that? I don't think he does.
And if that doesn't change. I think the same outcomes occur week in and week out. They're going to be very inconsistent. They'll win seven games and they'll lose nine. Looking at the other side of that coin, which is the rate of.
It's 17 games. Right. There you go. Let's talk LinkedIn, people. and small business owning.
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So, stop by O'Reilly Auto Parts today or visit us at O'ReillyAuto.com/slash Eisen. That's O'ReillyAuto.com/slash E-I-S-E-N. O-O-O-Reilly Auto Parts. Looking at The other side of that coin, which is the Raiders now don't have Devontae Adams. Good, bad, right, wrong, or a mixed view as to whether moving a good, good player out when that player didn't seem to want to be there.
Good for the locker room, bad for the locker room, because people in the locker room realize you got rid of a very good player, healthy, not healthy. What are your thoughts on the other side of this equation? Yeah, you know If I'm the body atoms. And I say, okay. Because he he has to You can be a great receiver and never get the ball, and you don't get The throws are the targets that you want.
It's never going to be shown.
So, you know, if I'm Devontae Adams, I can kind of see where he. What it out? You got Gardner Minshew. You got my guy from Purdue, you know, Aiden O'Connell.
So You've got the quarterback position, but. You know, they're not Aaron Rodgers. I mean, Aaron Rodgers will get up when he's 60 years old, he'll be able to throw the ball 50 yards down the field. and hit a cone.
So he has that talent still in him. And they still have that connection, obviously, because that's why he's at the Jets, because Aaron Rodgers wanted it. For For the Raiders and the rest of the players, my thing would be this: if I'm in the locker room, if you don't want to be there, don't be there. Mm-hmm. We'll play without you.
Like we need to go ball out anyway. We can't complain and cry. and you talk about spilled milk, we gotta go play football. And if we're crying about having him walk out the door, then we're definitely not going to win football games. How does Devante then change uh Defending the Jets now.
Obviously, Garrett Wilson would be very happy to have somebody else to. to take some of those uh to take the attention away from him there or to maybe create some more opening opportunities. He will. And Devontae Adams is a really good route runner. Um You know, he can.
So I think a lot of those underneath routes, and he can get deep too, but some of those underneath routes, creating that separation for those third and fives, third and sevens. You know, that's going to be. I would think in my head that I'm going to roll my cover to Devontae Adams because I know that's who Aaron Roberts is going to look at. once he gets into the on the field. But I think that's going to help.
The deeper balls.
So you got to be able to spread the ball out 53 and a quarter yards. You've got to make the defense defend that. But then you got to also spread them out vertically. And I think Devonta does a great job. Horizontal.
And I think you can get Wilson and the rest of the group to go vertically, and now you put the defense in a dilemma.
Now you got to guard more grass, and that's a harder thing to do when you only got 11 bodies. Rod, you may enjoy knowing that many times during my years with the Raiders I said to Al, Well, if I was defensive coordinator, and before I got another word out, each time he replied, You're not, But for the moment, I'm going to put my defensive coordinator hat on. It's math. It's 11 on 11. And if you have to dedicate more than one man to cover Devontae, if you want a corner and a safety there, well, now someone by definition is going to be freer than he otherwise would have been.
So if I'm another target on the Jets, this is great for me. Yeah, yeah, we always say you got to win your one-on-one matchups. When they, you know, we don't, if somebody's guarding individually as a receiver, guarding you one-on-one. Um, you have to be able to win that, and sometimes a quarterback can throw you open, which we know Aaron Rodgers can do that.
So I think It will help the offense.
Now the defense needs to improve for the Jets. But it helped the offense, but the overall chemistry, you got to keep seeing that growth because they played. Like they did last night. They played great football. And they still lost.
They played solid, not great, they played solid football and still lost.
So, if you keep playing solid football.
Well, you're going to be a 500 football team.
Well, you got to address your kicking game as well because I can do the math on this also. They lost by three points, but they missed two field goals. Do the math. They got to address the game. And the kicker is a really good kicker.
He just had one of those days. And it cost him a game.
Now I know it wasn't only him. If they score a touchdown at the end, it becomes irrelevant. But the fact is, when you miss two kicks, three plus three is six, and you lost the game by three points. And you win and lose collectively. Yep.
Right. It's not, you don't get a third of a point because your special teams did this, and you get a half a point because your offense played this way, and you get a quarter of a point because your defense played. No, you lose and you win as a football team.
So the Jets are going to play the Steelers on Sunday night. Obviously, the news came out as we taped this on Tuesday. that Russell Wilson's getting looked at for that starting position. And I'll tell you, it's funny. I'm curious about your perspective on what this says about the Steelers and where they are.
Because Justin Fields has been playing well. Guess they lost the last two, but What do you think's happening there? And how does that affect and how does that affect I have so many and how's that affect the locker room? And how does Tomlin deal with that? And should Wrestle Wilson start?
As players, you only control what you can control. As a defense, they need to go out there and play the best football they can play. I mean, their defense has played well this year. I think they're only giving up 14.3 points a game, which is, I think, a second in the league.
So they're doing their job. I think if you go on Russell. They kind of Does Russell give you a better Does it give you better leadership on a consistent basis in on the field. I think I think he helps you because now this is very similar to what Seattle used to be. Run heavy play pass.
But what are the Steelers? Unheavy play pass. That's what they do. They're going to run the football, they're going to run the football, they're going to run the football, and they're going to play pass. And that's one thing that.
I think Russell has done well within his career, especially when he was at Seattle. And then when he went to Denver, they didn't do that. And that's not what he is. He's not a drop back, throw the ball 45 times a game quarterback.
So I think he fits this system perfectly. And I always thought that when they got him. And then he got injured.
So having him come back in, you know, I know it's still in him. I know he can still throw the football.
Now he's got to have the belief in what he still is. When he sees that person in the mirror, he's still got to believe in that person. I don't know if he does. I'm not in his house, but. If Mike Tomlin believes in him and Mike Tomlin sees enough of him, Mike's going to give him an opportunity because Mike knows.
There's not a lot of great teams in the National Football League right now. When you look at it across the board, you've got some good teams. But there's not that many great teams in the league. And if they can find their footing with that quarterback position. Mike knows they got a great chain of it.
And Rod, you're of course absolutely right. And I was nodding my head vigorously. Denver did not do what. the best organizations do for their players, which is best position them to be their best. A lot of people forget that when Russell was in Seattle, there was at least one season, perhaps more, where he was the team's leading rusher.
So, your point about his mobility and his ability to run the ball is well taken. And, you know, I shared with Susie earlier, I have no ill will whatsoever towards Justin Fields, and he's been doing a great job. I would like to see Russell get a chance. I'm a softy in that regard. Let Russ cook.
Yeah, if he's healthy and if Mike thinks. And Mike's a really good coach. Mike hears, he listens to the locker room. He listened to his leaders. If Mike believes that Russell is going to spark that offense.
then he's going to give that opportunity. But if he believes that he's still injured and he can't move around and he can't perform like he should, then he's going to keep the young fella here. Yeah, it's so interesting. He said that he saw that the calf injury seemed like it was healed. He said that he's going to watch him this week, but.
It's that decision with a team that's what are they, four and two? And it's just a question of if if a the young kid is playing well. And Yes, they've lost the last two, but You're bringing in a quarterback who's new to the system, who is obviously Russell Wilson, but it's that's a that's a big gamble. It is a big gamble. They are 4-2.
They're tied with the Ravens for first place in the division. It is a gamble, but if when you're in the building. Like I know he's remembering what the offense used to look like with Big Ben being in there, where they used to sling that thing down the field, Big Ben would run and rumble around. It would be hard to get him down. They want something similar to that.
Now, it doesn't have to be that explosive, right? Because you're not going to have that. But you have talent at the tight end position. You got tight end like the receiver position. You have players across the board that can make plays for you.
Now you got to be able to distribute the football as a quarterback. And if Mike Tomlin believes Russ is going to be that guy to ignite that. Then I would not be surprised if he gave that opportunity. Do you think Mike will have some fun and maybe put them both in on a play or so here or there? That would be, hey, you know what?
You need to talk to Mr. Smith over there, the offensive coordinator. That's a good idea. Yeah, I'll send him my notes. I'm sure he'll take them very seriously.
You can put on your offensive coordinator hat at that one. I'll correct myself. They lost two of their last three. You mentioned the Ravens. I mean, you're sitting there calling these games.
You're seeing some magic happening on the field. What's it like watching Lamar and Derrick Henry share the field the way they are? Yeah, you know what the I've never really realized how big Derrick Henry was until he walked in the building, or until I walked in the building the first time and said, man, the dude's. Christian Coy was big. And he's big, but he is like solid.
I think he's like maybe 4% fat. And when you see him run, he runs. high like Eric Dickerson. He's faster than what you think he is. He's obviously stronger than what you think he is, but he's been a huge benefit for Lamar because Lamar now doesn't have to be the leading Russia and.
The leading passer for the Baltimore Ravens. And Derrick Henry can take some of that. That weight off his back on the offensive side. And Lamar has thrown the ball extremely well. And what I love about what Todd Munkin has done.
Yes, they're kind of old school. Right, so they'll come out in 23 personnel. Which is three tight ends and two backs. They'll come out in 12 personnel with two tight ends, two receivers, and one back. They'll come out in 11 personnel.
But they're moving things around and I love it because they'll get in that heavy package. And when they get in that heavy package, They will, their tight ends can catch, their running backs can catch, so they'll throw out of it.
So if it's a heavy package, they're heavy in the box. Lamar will check out of it, he'll check to a pass. And the tight ends are having some really good games the last several weeks. And I think that's been the main thing. I think that's the.
That's what Derrick Henry has done for the football team because now they know if we're going to put eight in a box. A guy puts his arm on Derrick Henry, he's not coming down. Hmm. And if he does, he normally pulls a pile. for four to five yards And it's still a second and medium.
And it's going to be third and short. And you're not going to stop him again to get the first down because they're going to give it to him. And he'll just fall over and get the first down.
So he's been really critical for Lamar's growth as a passer. Hearkening back to your days on the field. Is that the offense you would least like to be facing right now? Or is there another team that would concern you more if you were lined up in the position you played? No, I think that would be the one.
Because they can get in so many different formations. and they'll bring in their different packages and they're going to try to wear you down.
Now, if I had the 2000 Ravens defense, I wouldn't care what package you got against you. They're not going to run the ball against anybody. They're not going to run the ball against us. But in the day's game, I would be concerned about. the variety of formational or personnel groupings they give you.
But within that, And even when they get in their 12, they do peer slot. And they'll do Trump slot, and it's all condensed. But then they'll still throw the ball out of that. I mean, I like they, it's a real good feel, kind of like when I used to play what the game plans used to look like, what the plays used to look like. It's not the new school, 11 personnel, zone read, RPOs, everybody's.
No fullbacks are on the field anymore. Nobody has fullbacks. It's only a couple of teams that do have fullbacks anymore. And those teams are tougher, more grittier teams in the league, and you like them, and they're really good teams right now. Is this the best Ravens team you've seen?
Like outside of obviously the one that you want. If they, I mean, last week they gave up six plays of 10 yards or more. In the passing game, they gave up. Three plays over 20 yards in the passing game.
So that inconsistency on the back end is a little concerning. They are getting a little bit better. They did bring in Dean Peeves, who Dean has freaking coached for 50 years. in football.
So if Dean can't help him on the back end. And I think that's why they brought him in. If they can just improve, let's say they improve by 15%. This Ravens team is a better team than it was last year. And that's saying a lot because they did get to the championship game, and they had the number one seed.
And I think this will be a better football team because they don't blitz that much. They blitz, I think, 21% of the time, which is pretty low in the league, but they still get quarterback hits and quarterback pressures. And that's what you want.
So, you know, Cal Van Noy is having a breakout year for an older player. I think he's in his 11th year from BYU. Um and so if that if they can keep that momentum. This is This is a better team than it was last year. You see And you've got to remember they're going to get Keaton Mitchell back.
in November. And Keith Mitchell That little kid, he can fly. Tell me more about him.
Well keeping retro heat Mike Mitchell, his dad played with me when I was in Baltimore. And Keaton's not a real big re. Cool running back. But he's a lot stronger than he looks. He's a lot faster than he looks.
He can. Great tackles. Checks the ball comes out on the backfield, everything that the Ravens are doing now. he fits in perfect with and just another combination of Health.
Now if you have heel, king, and Keaton Mitchell, I mean, you have a three-headed monster that Lamar doesn't have to run as much.
Now, what they'll do is probably just use those guys as decoys, and Lamar will go out on the edge. And then even Lamar can make a grown man in the National Football League look like he's a pop warner player. Because he could make a menace. And so I think if they, once they get him back, they'll have all their weapons as long as everybody stays healthy. And their right side of their offensive line, which.
Was there weakness going into the season? Because you had Daniel Filele, who moved from right tackle to the guard, which is tough to do. And Now Rosengarten is in there. He's a rookie.
So they're getting better after each snap, after each week. And if they keep growing on the right side of the offensive line, the left side is solid already. with Ronnie Stanley over there. This is a really good football team. I said it two weeks ago.
This, if they keep improving on the defensive side, this will be the best team in the National Football League. It's that time in every conversation when you talk about the Ravens and Lamar Jackson, where somebody says, Well, as Lamar Jackson, an elite quarterback. And every time I hear that, I think, are you absurd? You know, I don't. I wonder what your take is, Rod.
I don't understand. I think that's a stupid statement. Why are we so happy? This is what you're thinking. They're thinking old school football.
So they're thinking Dan Marino. What damn Dan Marina what 90 was that 91? He threw for 5,000 yards. That was like the first 5,000 yards. Passer in week history, or something like that.
It was either 91, or it might have been 89, right? It'd be even before that.
So everybody thinks that you got to throw for. 4500. You know, 3,800, having 35, 40 touchdowns, where the game is different because now the game. The offense is a variation of the wing team.
So yes, the wing tea you know zone reads, RPOs. It's done, it's all knowledge is done out of a spread formation.
So they don't throw as much. They didn't throw as much back then. They don't throw as much now.
Some teams do. But the Ravens don't have to because they can run the ball consistently. and you look at all the teams that can still run the football consistently. They're winning football games. You know, I think that's what makes him dangerous.
So to say he's not a great. Quarterback is an old school thought process because they're thinking. Passing yards. And that's not what the game is anymore. It's not just passing yards, just passing yards.
and running guards. the combination and that's the reason he won his MVPs. In 2019 and last year's because the combination, the collective amount of yards he was getting with both throwing the football and running with the football, and maybe the MVP. Where does he rank amongst all the quarterbacks you've seen play? This year for the quarterbacks that are playing now in history.
Oh, that's hard to say. He's still working. I mean, look, I think the best quarterback that I have ever seen. In my timeframe was Dan Marino. And so different break.
He could absolutely sling the football. Remember, he did, he threw for 5,000 yards. When nobody could throw for 5,000 yards. Nobody, and it's still hard to throw for 5,000 yards now. It's easier to because you You're protected in the pocket, out of the pocket.
The receivers are protected down the field. Everybody should be catching the ball more, right? But so I think he's one of the great ones. Obviously, Tom is one of the great ones that he can throw football. Peyton.
Faced him multiple times. Never really got to play against Aaron. Um but I think I think Lamar is up there and I think He's still, what is this? Is this 70 or 18? I can seventh year, eighth year for Lamar.
He's still young. If he has another four, five, six years to play, he's going to shatter the rushing record. for quarterbacks in the national football. He's going to shatter that. And he's going to be the best running quarterback in the history of football, even though I think Michael Vick is still one of the greats.
But Michael Vick didn't play in this system. He played in the West Coast system and he had to make his own runs out of, you know, out of thin air. where these some of these runs for Lamar are design runs. And but to say He's not one of the greats. That's, I think, is ludicrous, but.
He's up there and I think It's hard to put him there now, but If he keeps moving in the direction he's moving, he's going to have some more MVP. Um Trophies in his room, in his house. Yeah, this is his seventh, his seventh year. Yeah, it's his seventh year. By the way, Marino Don Bowie looked it up.
It was 1984 for those numbers. I want to, I want, we're old. He did that in 84. 84. Wow.
His rookie year? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Oh my god, second year, second year.
Rod, you listed a lot of tremendous quarterbacks. Would you throw John Elway in that group or no? Absolutely. I mean, Johnny had, I mean, he had a rocket. I remember we played them one time, and I jumped in front of the receiver, you know, one of their three amigos.
I jumped in front of them to catch it, and I could hear the ball whistle. Wow. went by my ear It went so fast. I mean, I jumped up and before I can close my hand. The ball was through my hand.
And it's like you can hear things go shh. And I'm like, good gracious, that kid, that dude can throw.
Okay. Who's the toughest quarterback that um that you ever played against? Daring. Danny's the one, because we used to blitz everybody. And we would sack everybody, but we could not sack Dan Marino.
Dan Marino can't run. 10 feet in two days. But he can sling the football. I mean, he was taught to have the ball up by his ear. He never really dropped it.
And his. 10-yard throw. looked just like the six-year throw. And he got it out so fast because he didn't take the ball all the way back. It just came like right by the ear and it was gone.
So he was the hardest quarterback to play against. Because he was He could throw the football so easily to anybody. And he made that football team. It's always dangerous when I do math on air, but I just did some quick math as to the information Don provided you. Oh, God.
That was 40 years ago. Yeah. Forty. I was twelve. Uh uh I plead the fifth.
You were mentioning Lamar's MVP years. I want to show you a board that we have through five games. Because Lamar Jackson is just putting up, Amy, you would say magnificent numbers. I would say that. And I just wanted to show this to you, Rod, and to see your reaction to it.
Yeah, you know what? He's done. What you really gotta like. Todd Monkin. Because Todd So in the previous years where In 2019, we're Lamar.
Lamar never had the opportunity to Check. Acadeline is Kremlinich.
So he would get up to the point of springage, whatever the plane was called, it was called.
So he couldn't read the box and say, hey, I didn't like this. I'm going to go to this play because they're heavy, or I'm going to go to a bubble play because. You know, they're light outside. And Todd Munkin came in and he said, Lamar, you're going to learn to do these things. You're going to do these things, and you're going to get better.
So, really, honestly. When you think about the big picture of Lamar Jackson, he's still growing as a quarterback. Because he, all the stuff that you've been seeing other quarterbacks do. For years? He's just starting to do.
So he's just starting to get comfortable with it. And what's kind of scary is He is getting comfortable with it. And that's what makes it scary because I think his growth is going to be tremendous. As his receivers are really good players, the tight ends are, the running backs can kick out of the backfield, and he trusts every single one of them. That's what I love about Lamar.
it's not like he's going to find out one guy over and over and over kind of like Mark Andrews three years ago. We know every time Lamar dropped back he was going to throw that bottle to Mark Andrews He wasn't going to find nobody else. He was going to throw that ball to Mark Andrews blindly. And Mark Andrews is going to catch it. But now He distributes the football to everybody.
And you have a running back, and he can make his audibles at the line. But now you have a running back who can take that pressure off of him while running. He's going to throw the football better and he has been. I mean, you say he takes the pressure off, and yet his numbers are going up. His passing yards are going up.
His own rushing yards are going up. He's better with Derrick Henry there. Oh, yeah. No, he's better. He's better because they've always had a potent offense.
It's really a potent running game, right? but derrick henry when i'm saying the pressure i'm saying he doesn't have to now be the leading rusher For the Baltimore Ravens. And the leading passer. For the Baltimore Ravens, he doesn't have to be Superman, so to speak. to get anything accomplished from the offensive side.
And I think you can see the growth. And you can also see the growth with Todd Monkin has because Todd Munkin is making him. Take ownership. of being a pro. And Lamar's not a real rah-rah talker.
But Lamar is loved and be loved in the locker room. Because he knows when Lamar speaks. It's real important.
Well again, as to your point of Derrick Henry I'll go back to math, 11 on 11. If you are defending the Ravens' running game now, you don't just have to worry about Lamar. You don't just have to worry about Derek. You've got to focus on them both because they are both, here you go, Susie, magnificent at running the ball.
So it's math, and it makes them a better team. It does. And the one thing that... I like to see more added to it on a consistent basis is just using them as decoys at times, right? Going through quarters where they can be used as decoys.
And you take Zay Flowers, you got Lamar coming off the side, you give other individual receivers, maybe Nelson Aguilar, maybe Bateman. Coming off on a speed suite, you know, you're hitting screens to Justice Hill. Uh, coming out of the backfield.
So the The growth of the offense in the second year of Monken, but also in the first year of Derrick Henry. You can see the dividends because after the first game, everybody is like. What in the heck after that Kansas City game? They're like, what are they doing? They don't know how to use Derrick Henry.
This offense is not good. The offensive line is no good. And now you can see how it's all coming together. And you can see this is going to be a real dangerous offense to play against for any defense coordinator. and to stop the run and Lamar in a throwing game.
Just a few more minutes with Rod Woodson. If the season ended today, would Lamar be the MVP and Henry the offensive player of the year, or vice versa? What do you think? Are we going to see these teammates to get these awards? Has that ever happened before?
Kurt and Marshall. Kurt Warner and Marshall 99 in 2001. That's right.
So that would probably at this point I would think you would be right again. I would think we would be. Lamar Jackson is MVP once again. And the offensive player of the year will be Derrick Henry. as they call him the king.
I want to ask you what you thought of Jaden Daniels since you saw him playing in person. It is really impressive. He is, he doesn't have happy feet. talking to all of our coaches before the game. They said he's a great human being.
And you know how hard that it's hard to find that. When you're so good. and so talented in sports to find somebody that's so humble. and still meek. when he's off the field.
And even when he's on the field. Right? It's hard to find, but to watch him, when I was watching Jim coming up to the week last week. The kid can decipher coverages. He throws the ball extremely well.
He doesn't get flustered. He throws a nice deep Arcing deep ball. He can throw a bullet in if he need to get a 10-yarder, eight-yarder in. In between coverages. He is going to be a really good player.
If everything keeps adding the way it has so far this year. for him in his rookie campaign. He's going to be a heck of a player, and they're going to win a lot of football games. You know, I loved how he and Lamar handled an issue before the game. Which was Jaden said, don't compare me to Lamar.
I'm Jaden, he's Lamar, there's no reason to compare us. And Lamar said exactly the same thing. He's terrific. Don't compare him to me. Let him be his own player.
And in terms of being his own player, apparently one of the things he does, and this comes from his head coach, is he works his ass off.
So they went somewhere, they played a game, it was late, it was a Monday night, they traveled, and he's in the room watching film. Um that resonated with me, the hard work that he puts in. Yeah, you know, and I and I want to leave I don't think it's disrespecting Lamar or Daniels by comparing because you only compare Players, when you think that player is going to be great, to another great player already. Right, you don't compare like guys that don't play to a guy who doesn't play either. You don't do that.
But you compare guys. You compare a younger player who is playing at a high level to another great player who's playing at a high level debts. Years. remove into the league.
So I don't think it's disrespectful at all. But yes, they are different players. They're different styles of players. Lamar's quicker, faster. Jaden probably throws a better beat ball.
They but the one thing that makes them similar is that You can do everything right as a defensive coordinator. And they can still make a first down with their feet or with their own. And just so I don't mislead anyone, I want to make clear that when Jaden said that, I don't believe he felt it was at all disrespectful. I don't believe Lamar felt it was at all disrespectful. I don't think so either.
Jaden has been very honest about saying, look, I'm a rookie. I'm just still learning.
So the way I interpreted it was: don't compare me to Lamar. I'm a rookie. I'm still learning. But I agree with you. I think you're hungry.
I just like everything I've heard him say. Everything I've heard about him, I like. Before we let you go, Amari Cooper, wondering your thoughts on the addition to the Bills and how that possibly creates that batteries. Oh, did you hear about this? No.
No breaking news here on What the Football. I love it. Yeah, Amari Cooper going to battery mate with Josh Allen. I mean, listen, Amari Cooper can play. We had him with the Raiders.
Outstanding player. You know, it seems like everything's going sideways in Cleveland. And for him, he's going to be. He's going to Buffalo. It seems like it's on the edge of the earth.
Flight. Their fan base loves those colors, right? They love the bills. He's going to be beloved. Josh Allen now has another weapon to throw the ball to.
So that's another, that's a plus for him and it's a plus for Josh Allen.
Well you're right. Bill's mafia is terrific. Cause you love going to a place where They tailgate five and a half, six hours before the game. you know they they're cheering you on they love you you're wearing your their colors So, those old school teams like that in those small neighborhoods, because you're driving through the neighborhood and boom, here's the stadium. And Amargus would be a part of that.
that is uh that's good for him and it's good for the football team Rod, we are so grateful for your time. I know we went really long with you, but we so appreciate it because you're so clear on so many topics and you have such a great perspective. And we just really appreciate your time. I talked about it in the open of this. I don't know if you remember teaching me the cover two at the old NFL network when I got my first job with ABC Sports to go do college football and you sat me down.
I think I probably have it somewhere, but always grateful for that because you made me so much smarter.
Well, it's my pleasure. I appreciate it. You two are awesome. Anytime you want me on. And Rod, I will add to the appreciation Susie shared that I shall always and forever appreciate and thank you for that ninety eight yard touchdown return that turned our season around.
And I still have a bottle of oxygen in the back, so I need to get soon. Thanks a lot, Rod. Really appreciate it. All right, take care. Appreciate it.
Thank you. Great conversation with Rod Woodson. We're looking ahead for next week as well. We'll come back with another great guest. You know, it was funny when he was talking about Max Crosby being chippy on the sidelines.
It actually made me think of the double standard. It's so funny that oftentimes people say, Well, it's a man's game, so like those are men out there and they're playing it. People's reaction was always so different this WNBA season because people couldn't handle it when women were getting into it and women were getting chippy with their coaches. And so, by the way, I would just say right back, like, oh, it goes both ways. Like, it's not just about, oh, it's like these guys are out there and they're playing tough and they're going to go back into the locker room and they're just friends outside.
Like, women are going to be the same way too. If you're a competitor, if you're an athlete, you're competing. And the thing that always drives me nuts is fans want their players, whether WNBA, NFL, NBA, to be fierce and passionate on the field, on the court. and yet don't like it when they are when they come to the sideline. If you want your players to be passionate and play with passion, which you do, when they come off the field, they don't.
turn that passion off. You should have seen what happened before. I mean, Amy shoved me. I went flying. And she's like, what, 4'11?
Anyway, thank you so much for taking in this edition of What the Football? WT Football. What is it? WT Football? Football podcast?
On Instagram. Can you see how much time I spend? WT Football. Ah. WT football on Instagram.
Thanks again for taking on this edition of What the Football. We will see you next week. You met Lala Kent on Vanderpump Rules.
Now, Lala and her friends share everything on Give Them Lala. Baby S is giving me money-making moves in.
So I'm gonna have one kid who's like, I wanna just live in a box and do like artistic dancing and paint. Ocean's gonna be like, It doesn't matter if I'm broke, mom. I'm passionate about it. And Baby S is gonna be the one that says, Passion doesn't pay bills, Ocean. Watch what Lala is talking about on YouTube or search for Give Them Lala wherever you listen.
