Walt Anderson: Trying To Make The Kickoff Safer

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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. This is the Rich Eisen Show. Eight days we're going to Kansas City. Nine days the season kicks off.

Twelve days is when week one hits. Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Justin Herbert, the guy is just a beast.

Welcome to Los Angeles and back to the National Football League gym. Today's guests, NFL rules analyst Walt Anderson. Fox Sports college football insider Bruce Feldman. Underdog fantasy senior NFL reporter James Palmer. And now, it's Rich Eisen.

Yes, everybody. Welcome to this edition of the Rich Eisen Show. I don't know why I'm singing our way in. It's just a beautiful Wednesday. No, you should definitely sing, man.

844-204-RICH is the number to dial right here on the program. Excited to be here with you. We had a great show yesterday. Andrew Whitworth, Carl Anthony Townsend, studio guests.

Bruce Feldman, much smaller man. He will be in studio. Will he be wearing an Eagles jersey? I doubt it.

I doubt it. It's college football season, baby. Week one coming up.

Lots to talk about right there. The Florida State loss to Georgia Tech. We had Brent Key, the Georgia Tech head coach on Monday. That's still reverberating. We'll take a look over the steering wheel for week one.

Everything else that's going on. Bruce will be joining us in studio there. My buddy James Palmer, our friend James Palmer from NFL Media Group Days. He has got a new gig with Underdog Fantasy. He's doing a show, I believe, with Steve Smith Sr. I think they're going to start fashioning a little bit of him being a national NFL reporter.

Fantastic. I figured as soon as I heard that, I called him up and I'm like, come on the show. He's typed with the news what's going on in Denver, Kansas City.

Lots to pick his brain about. Hour number one, the NFL official rules analyst. It's an interesting, I don't know, is the NFL getting their own rules analyst? Is he going to be like the Steve Jaffe of broadcasts? We're going to ask Walt Anderson because he was kind of like the head NFL ref for years. I think they might have transitioned him. Anyway, he's going to basically explain to us what this new kickoff rule looks like and why and what's going on there.

Any other rules we should be looking forward to seeing be emphasized in the NFL this year? So he'll join us in about 18 minutes time. There's you at 844-204 Rich.

Number to dial here in the program. Good to see you, Chris Brockman. How are you today? I'm great, man. What's happening?

DJ Mikey D is in D's nuts back here on the program. Good morning, Rich. Good to see you. TJ Jefferson, Candles Lit. Good to see you, sir. Candles Lit. How are you doing?

I'm doing great. You know what? We're going to start this show. And every time we do this, I feel, you know, like I've got to explain why, because so many shows just do it just to do it. And that's starting to show at the Dallas Cowboys.

But there really is a lot of news involving it. And I know. How about them Cowboys? We're America's team. Why are you guys saying it like that? Because it's the same thing with Mike's, you know, the other place of business with their schmucky America's game of the week. Like, there's no other games in America.

You know what I mean? Like, like everyone else's games has nothing to do in America. Well, let's call it America's game of the week.

America's game of the week. You know what I mean? Like, everything's got a plus. We're plussing everything up.

There's no apps like, you know, NFL minus. So you see what I'm saying? So we're just, I don't like being, anybody looks at us and you're just like the rest of us. You can't have it.

What do you mean you don't like being it? That's what we do. But.

Yeah, it's not what you do. I mean, honestly, there are other popular teams out there. Steelers fans are everywhere. Packers fans are everywhere.

My pen is flipping up in the air because I'm pounding the table. Jets fans are everywhere. Not as much. Niners fans are everywhere. Patriots fans are.

Fits and Sullys are everywhere. I've been on record saying this multiple times. At any rate, the reason why we're starting with this is CD Lamb got signed yesterday or the other day and he spoke with the media yesterday.

Yeah. And there are, we've seen this movie over and over and over where the Cowboys have an insanely talented player, insanely talented player. It's time for that player to get paid. And then there's some sort of standoff that really shouldn't be because the Cowboys should have acted way before anybody else got signed. So the price goes up and the Joneses are basically sitting there holding their breath and they're trying to negotiate with this guy, even though they don't have much of a hammer. And everybody knows they're going to sign him anyway. And they wind up signing him to more money than they really had to if they had acted before.

And there's different stages of it. We've seen it before with Emmett. We've seen it with Zeke. We've seen it with Dak once before. It's happening with Dak again. And we just saw it with CD Lamb.

It's going to happen with Micah Parsons, too, just to name a few. And so what stage are we in right now at CD Lamb? We're in the laughing about it stage because it's all over. That's where we're in right now.

There is less pie. CD Lamb was asked yesterday, where were you when you found out you're now the second highest paid wide receiver in the National Football League? Where were you when you got the word on your sleeve?

Well, I mean, we're not. I was up. I was literally in the living room talking to my guys.

I had my homeboys with me. We were just chatting and my agent FaceTimed me. He was actually kind of it was kind of crazy because he hit me with, yeah, man, this is going south. I'm like, what do you mean it's going south? Like, you know, it's time. And then he hit me with, yeah, they're only going to try to pay you 34 a year.

You know, I'm like, well, where do I sign? Listen, we're also in another phase here. I like that. We're in another phase.

Oh, that is funny. But again, it just feels like it's we've seen it. We've seen the movie before. Here's the other stage, another stage, which is the boy that sucked stage going through the mental hurdles that you had to jump over. Going through a process where you're being grinded.

This is the business part of it. But the review of the mental anguish portion of it. This whole process was it was very crazy for me, as we all know. Very bittersweet. I enjoyed it all. Obviously had plenty of times to, you know, revamp myself.

Physically become more prepared for the season. Granted, I wish I would have had a camp, but it's OK, though. It'll work out in the back end. But very excited for the moment. Cherish every bit of it.

Shout out my agent. I'm grateful for the whole opportunity. Going back and forth. The phone calls with him. Obviously thanking God every morning.

Get a chance to wake up and do what I do. But yeah, man, it was surreal. Loved it. Here we are. Did you doubt that it would get done? No, I had no doubt.

I had no doubt. But I will say I was getting impatient. OK. Because he wants the ball. Oh, yes, because that's the third and final stage, which is the coming to grips with the man that signs the check.

It's a business relationship. And it's time the ball, because you're now through it. That's the final. It's like kind of the last stage of this whole process that the Joneses go through with their best players.

Hit it. What was your interaction with Jerry when you signed the deal? Obviously, we had a businessman conversation. We just had to clear the room. Everything is behind us.

I'm not worried about nothing. We got what we needed to get done. And now it's time for me to go ball. Time for me to go ball. Let's go.

Let's go. Yeah, because he's good at the balling part of it. He's good at the footballing. He's good at the catching. He's good at the leading. He's good at everything. Good at the touchdowns.

Yep, yep, yep, yep. Good at the yards. So where's Dak right now in all this? Dak is in the it's still serious phase. Dak is in the standoff with Jerry Jones phase. And it sure looks like he's in the Jerry negotiating through the media stage. That's where it appears Dak is at right now. Jerry Jones telling Clarence Hill Jr., Cowboys insider, about the Dak deal. We just don't need to get it done before the season.

Because it's in all of our interests. Dak and everybody do have a great season. As a matter of fact, that's probably not realistic to think before the season.

But my thought sitting here is we'll have Dak, meaning after this season. But all I'm going to say is this. It's not done yet. Now then, before we get to this part, I'll take this one at a time, if you don't mind Mike Hoskins.

Let's take this one at a time. It's not done yet. Does that mean between Dak and the Cowboys after this season? Because you have to, you know, we're not seeing it.

We're hearing it because Jerry sometimes talks elliptically. It's not done yet. Does that mean he's saying that after Dak's going to be here beyond this season? Not done yet between the two of us, even if there is no contract? Or it's not done yet talking about a contract this year?

Because right now he's saying, we don't have to do it. It's not realistic to do it. This is a midnight, five minutes after midnight league. So this could literally be done five minutes after midnight Cleveland time, the night before the Cowboys and Browns open up the season. This could be done five minutes before kickoff of that game. Actually, technically it could be done even during the season, but this usually is the stuff like we're going to not deal with it during the season. Because Dak doesn't have to.

It takes two to tango. Dak can actually walk. I mean, we've been through this before. Dak has the hammer. You can't franchise him. He can't trade him without his consent. He's not going anywhere. If you let him hit the field in Cleveland without a new deal, he will hit free agency and he will hit it big. And we had Andrew Whitworth here yesterday saying the all-in aspect of this is that if you see Dak and you see he does everything right and you're a leader in the locker room and you see he's leading in the locker room and you see he does absolutely everything right, professionally, personally, all of that, and he's not getting his, that leaves a large churn in your locker room of people wondering, well, how does one get paid around here? Even though they can also point, we paid CD? Now then, it's further.

Jerry said this, adding this. Just so we're clear, we can win with Dak. I'm looking at having less supporting cast around him than he's had any time in his career.

He's going to have to make up for that and some because we haven't gotten to the games we want to be playing and he's going to have to do it in the future with less of a supporting cast. That's what I'm fighting for. What does that mean?

Let's take that piece. You're looking at me like you don't know what that means. I'm thinking about it from the Dak perspective. Why would I want to be there if I'm going to have less of a supporting cast? Well, I'm looking at it from the Jones perspective as well and that seems to me, if I may, to say, hey, you want what you're asking for and that we haven't agreed to yet because I think it's too high?

Well, you're going to have less of a supporting cast around you. That one's on you. Where's the hometown discount? Is it going to go above X? That's above market value. We're not pushing that because I could see what CD costs and I could see what MICA costs and if you want a supporting cast around you that I can pay?

Well, why don't you call TB12 and see what he did all those years for New England? Different era. That's a JP. That's a Jones problem. That is not a DP.

And in case you're wondering if I may be off on this or not, whether Jerry's sending messages, look at this last piece of the sound pine. What kind of supporting cast can we have around Dak? I'm wondering if that's in relation to the question that was asked of him or he's just beginning to opine still. I know you understand that, meaning Clarence, who covers the team, because of caps and stuff like that. Do our fans, do our fans know that Dak is going to have less of a supporting cast than his career has allowed him to have up until now? Now that's basically saying, hey, we're Dak shaming. TJ Jefferson. I'm a fan. Hey, TJ, you're the fan.

That's me. Do you realize that Dak may have less of a supporting cast around him? Do you, sir?

Oh, wait a minute. So if he takes more money, we can't make the team better around him? Apparently. Oh, well then Dak's going to take less money. That seems like, is this a division? Is he trying to like divide the fan base?

I don't know. I'm just saying. He's putting the fans against Dak. Hey, look, Dak wants all this money. There's going to be less good players around, so we may not win as many games. I don't think he's trying to play.

No, no. I don't think he's trying to play that, but you know a lot of fans are irrational. He's not trying to play you off of each other and off of Dak. What he's trying to do is just explain to you the realities of the situation, TJ.

There is less pie. I mean, yeah. Well, you keep saying that.

There is. I mean. And I guess to be completely fair, name me top of the team that has top of the line quarterback being paid.

I'm thinking the one. Top of the line wide receiver being paid. Tight end. Top of the line. Well, tight ends don't get paid like wide receiver, sir.

I just want to know what you're trying to do here. And top of the line defensive player. The Chiefs are pretty damn close with Chris Jones and Mahomes. But to those guys as Mahomes making, he's making APY numbers that are really great that nobody, that don't look great. But you take a look at cash being brought in.

He's at the top of the line there. Chiefs are able to do it is all I'm saying. This sounds like to be in negotiation through Clarence Hill, quite frankly, to be straight up with you.

And in terms of, you know, given more, though, it's not like they're just saying we're less. Cowboys announced a signing today and then Dalvin Cook, everybody down off the couch. Let's go from ATC. Dalvin Cook has been signed by the Dallas Cowboys being added to the running back room now in terms of that. Wait a minute. I'm being told that we still don't know if this is the Dalvin Cook that ran wild for the Minnesota Vikings or is the one that played for the Jets last year.

That's what I'm being told. Now, to be fair, the Jets over the last 13 years, not making the playoffs. One thing that they have been expert at is taking your veteran running back and retiring them.

Now, it could be on Le'Veon Bell. Right. Just as I'm just just for instance, you know, guy that ran wild and was dominant.

Yeah. Hall of Fame trajectory and shows up and then all of a sudden is useless. Can't even put him on the field. That's what Dalvin was last year for the Jets. And in terms of that, you know, hey, Breece Hall still ran for a thousand yards behind that dumpster fire. I mean, in terms of a fire, that was a dumpster or dumpster that was on fire.

Jets offense was that last year. So. But in Dalvin's defense, he said that last year he wasn't fully recovered from that shoulder injury. He says he feels a lot better. So you should take him at his word. He should get time. He should. Yeah.

I mean, running back by committee, it's real. But. We'll find out.

I would hope for your sake that works. Well, my life's going to go on regardless. Oh, God.

You know, so, dude, did you just go Jim Irsay on me here? And we talk about this stuff seriously every single day. And you're like, yeah, it doesn't really matter. Come on, man.

It matters. It's just amazing to me that we've seen this movie before. I don't like it.

Multiple times. Well, guess what? This means Dax can get paid before the season. Then they'll laugh about it. But if not.

Oh, my gosh. Do you think there's any chance that he doesn't get signed? Of course there's a chance. I more than 50 percent.

But to me, this just seems to me. Didn't he say there was no urgency about C.D. Lamb? He did. OK. I don't think it's going to get done. Exactly. So here's a guy saying, I don't think it's going to get done. We don't have to do it.

I don't think we're going to do it. And I just wonder if he understands that there's going to be less that he has to do with it now and then some, because we haven't played the games that we want to play in. And whose fault is that?

Maybe part of it is his. And do the fans know? I know that there's only a certain amount of cap space and you know media. But do the fans know?

Do you know? Fascinating. Good Lord. The gift that keeps on giving.

It really is, right? 844-204-rich is the number to dial here on The Rich Eisen Show. He is the freshly minted NFL officiating rules analyst. His name is Walt Anderson. A lot of you have cursed at this man on the screen, I'm sure. Quite frankly, that's the life of an official. And he has a new title and he is going to join us on this program to explain stuff that we want to know answers to, like the kickoff rule and things of that nature. There he is.

Walt Anderson is going to make us smarter next on The Rich Eisen Show. Let's talk DoorDash, people. If your family's like mine, it probably is. You want something to eat, your kids want something else to eat. How do you handle it all? How do you make sure everybody's happy? DoorDash, that's how you make sure everybody's happy. The food delivery app is the most awesome on-demand delivery platform that you can go get to make sure that food comes to the places you like right to your table. It's awesome, especially now that football's finally back, which means it's time to order your favorite game day food, snacks, and drinks on DoorDash without missing a single play.

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NerdWallet Compare, Inc. NMLS 1617539. Three dreaded words if you are a dad with a child and a toy that's been brought home. Uh-oh. What do we got? Some assembly required. Oh, yeah.

Remember that when we were kids? Some assembly required some assembly. And then sometimes it's just like some assembly. Like the number of times I've been on the floor, my back killing me, like some assembly, huh?

I think you always find an extra screw. You know what you know about some assembly required? The toy company Hasbro? Yes.

What the hell's going on behind me? They are building stuff for you. Are they still moving in? Yep. Their offices are acquiring some assembly, huh? They've done a lot of assembly behind us.

Rich, they got a lot of toys. Was it Thursday last week? Wednesday last week?

It was Thursday or Friday. We're like day five of an install here, huh? This window truck's getting fired. There is some assembly in action. Rich, they got a lot of toys, man.

I mean, note the selves. They're bringing like every toy they own into the building, I think. It's like boxes.

That is a massive thing. I just want the Golden Monopoly set. What is in that? In all those boxes? You got another shot of it?

Or the New York version of Monopoly. Out there, out the window? What is that? They built a canopy outside. Yeah. They redid a runway? They redid the fountain. They put a runway?

They put like an outdoor couch system. Oh, is that right? Yeah. They're chilling over there.

I don't begrudge. I'm DJing Friday nights outside. We're making TV here every day and radio. Can we?

DJ. Do they make Shrinky Dinks? Can we Shrinky Dink this? Shrinky Dinks.

Can we Shrinky Dink it a little bit? Sounds like a hostess cupcake. Just saying. I showed up to work in a mood today. Sorry, guys.

A little bit of a mood. Fine. What happened? Nothing. Nothing happened. Did you sleep?

I actually slept very well last night. Back on the Rich Eisen Show radio network. I'm sitting at the Rich Eisen Show desk furnished by Grainger with supplies and solutions for every industry. Grainger has the right product for you.

Call clickgrainger.com or just stop by. He's an official in the NFL for many a moon, a head NFL ref as well. He was the head of NFL refs.

He's the NFL officiating rules analyst. Walt Anderson is here on the Rich Eisen Show. How are you doing, Walt? Rich, doing great.

Really good to be with you. How many years were you an official in the National Football League, Walt? Twenty-four.

Twenty-four. Do you remember the first game you were an official for? What game was it? I believe it was actually, it was in Houston, the old Oilers. They played Kansas City.

The Oilers. So it was, was it in the Astrodome? Your first game was in the Astrodome, Walt? Yes.

That was back when they were still using the Astrodome. Okay. Very good. And now you are the NFL officiating rules analyst. That's your title now for the NFL?

That is correct. Does that mean, are you going to be part of broadcasts this fall? What they really want me doing is just working at providing communication and really being a rules resource, not only for our clubs, but for our network partners, you know, really all members of the media. It's really just an effort to try to just share information, you know, be more transparent and just do what I can to explain things when necessary and we certainly hope that's less than often. So is that a very nice Walt Anderson way of saying if one of my colleagues in the middle of a broadcast is talking out of the wrong orifice that you get on the phone to try and correct them, Walt, on certain subject matters?

Is that what happens? Well, that's really what we're going to try to do, Rich, is just work at communicating more just to be sure that the networks at least understand what is the ruling and what might be coming out of the AMGC Center in New York relative to those rulings or explanations that are made on the field. But you are not appearing on camera similar to maybe what, for an analogy, Steve Javey, a colleague of yours with the NBA, sometimes appears in a broadcast to say this is what we're seeing. That is not going to be your role? No, it's really set up such that if you end up with, you know, somewhat of a unique situation, which I know you probably can imagine what some of those rare situations that are unusual, the ability for the networks to have me on the air does exist. You know, obviously, you know, I'm sure that they're going to want to try to de-utilize their analysts to explain things where necessary. But in that rare instance where maybe some additional explanation would just be helpful for the fans, it's really set up to be able to accomplish that.

All right. So let's jump in, Walt. So the new rule involving the kickoff, we've seen it in the preseason. And I will give you the floor for those who are still looking at it going, my goodness, I've never seen anything like that before. And what the new rule is and the intent of the NFL for placing it in won't. Well, two main goals, which were the intent, number one, try to make the kickoff safer and number two, try to make it more relevant than what it has been in recent years with so many touchbacks. So, you know, relative to the safety part, one of the things that's always been a concern is the speed in space that occurs with a traditional kickoff. So we've established set up zones that are only five yards apart. So you don't have as much distance that the players are going to be running before they end up contacting each other. And then with a landing zone concept that was developed for the rule, the idea is to put the ball in the landing zone so that it incentivizes the receiving team to return the ball. There's a little more of a consequence if you end up kicking it through the end zone and that is instead of the ball, you know, potentially being at around the 20 or 25 yard line that's going to be put out at the 30 yard line. And if you land it short of the landing zone, it's going to be treated like an out of bounds and you're coming all the way to the 40. So what do you say in response to a lot of coaches, and I'm sure you've heard it and I'm sure this was discussed maybe at the most recent membership meeting, that a lot of coaches think the 30 is not punitive enough and that we'll still see balls pounded through for a touchback anyway and just say, screw it, we'll give you the ball in the 30. That maybe if you placed it at the 35, that would cause a lot of coaches, certainly in the fourth quarter of games in which they're up by more than a field goal, to just say I'll play defense for 70 yards rather than risk somebody creasing that zone and just getting one on one with the kicker.

What do you say to that, Walt? Yeah, I think you're right, Rich, and that is we really don't know what it's going to end up looking like in the regular season because you know this, all the teams are going to hold back from what they kind of show in the preseason. So, relative to the strategies, there's probably going to be a lot of factors that end up coming into play.

How good do I feel about my cover team or my return team, the dynamics and game situation in a particular game? And there are going to be those that just say exactly like you said, we'll just kick it through the end zone, we'll play defense from the 30. So much is going to end up, I think, depending upon what this thing really looks like when we get regular season play under our belt and just see what the analytics look like.

You know, how much do you give up whenever you end up putting the ball at the 30 rather than on average it's traditionally been around the 25 yard line for drive starts in recent years. So, there's a lot of them known and the proof will be in the pudding, so to speak. We just have to see what it looks like and we're all going to learn from it, from that standpoint in terms of not just how to play it but also how to officiate it. But, you also know that the league does not frowns upon switching anything up once games are played, right? You're spot on with that. That's correct.

So, if we need to see proof in the pudding, I mean... Anticipates a major significant change. There may be, no matter the fact the competition committee is going to be meeting this week to just maybe take a look at just a few little really, really minor tweaks relative to alignments, you know, how the officiating staff, how strict are they going to be, you know, with movements and things like that. But, that's really not a substantive change in the rule. So, 30 yard line it is. That's, even if we see tons of kickoffs go through for touchbacks anyway and this rule doesn't affect anything, we won't see a change during the season, you don't think? I'm not saying which, you know, just in terms of, I just don't see a lot of support for moving it from the current 20, 30, 40. Those are the three yard lines. There was certainly a lot of discussion and has been, you know, about what do we do with the 35, would it be easier to just have two lines, the 20 and the 35. And, the whole evolution of this play, it started off with the original recommendation in the 35 yard line. But, too many of the clubs felt like that was just too much of an advantage without first seeing how this thing really looks with regular season play. And again, so for an onside kick to happen, it must be declared, right? Somebody's got to… That was a major change. The only time we're going to see onside kicks are in the fourth quarter and that's going to be, if you're behind in store, you have to then declare that to the referee and if we end up having an onside kick, we'll just go back and administer the rules like the onside kick rules were last year with only one exception and that you can't kick the ball farther than 25 yards if it's untouched because they didn't want to have some gamesmanship play where people declared an onside kick and then just try to put you down there and brace your people down there and recover it.

Interesting. Walk us through the pushback that you've heard or been privy to on making an offensive play, like a fourth and 15, if you will, instead of an onside kick, going for that to try and change that rule instead of just an onside kick. Let's get one shot to try and get a first down for a team.

Why not that idea? Yeah, that's really been a real proposal that's been proposed the last several years. It ends up being debated, you know, both with the competition committee as well as the general membership, and I'm over a number of teams that support that, but up to this point, there's more teams that would rather just stick with the conventional onside kick rather than going to some alternatives.

NFL officiating and rules analyst Walt Anderson from the National Football League here on the Rich Eisen Show. What are some of the other rules we should be looking out for that have been emphasized, changed, that you think might pop up and a fan might be going, where did that come from? The other big one is the hip-hop tackle, you know, just from the standpoint of working again and protecting players and making the game more safe.

So that was for the end. We certainly had a lot of training and video examples that we shared with the clubs and players on actions that are fouls, and we want to really work at coaching and getting out of the game and, you know, as well as looking at thousands of plays that a lot of the fans are going to think are similar, and I think that looks like a hip-hop, but I'm sorry. I think the camera just got hip-dropped, Walt. Yeah, exactly. That was a hip-hop tackle, you know, on the camera.

There are four elements that have to be met. In real time, those elements happen so fast that if the official doesn't see all of those, they've really been instructed, we don't want you guessing at this, and because there's only one play, so we can review that play and potentially take other disciplinary measures to the player during the week. But it happens really, really fast. There are going to be some that are going to occur, most of which probably will not have a flag just because they are so hard to make the call in real time. And to me, something that I'd love to get some clarification on is SkyJudge or Hawkeye, right, whatever we're calling that system. And, by that, I mean somebody's watching the game that's not wearing a zebra outfit on the field and communicating with the on-field officials about something. And, usually, as a fan, you can tell that that communication has happened about something when something gets changed and an announcement is made. And the question is, what can Hawkeye chime in on? Has that changed at all from one season to the next?

Yes. Yes, it has, Rich. And this is our fourth year. If we play assist, those are the two words that fans probably only get used to hearing. And they'll hear that a little more this year because that's when we use that in announcements if we end up assisting the officials with areas and helping them to get the call right. But this will be our fourth year we play assist.

And every year, the competition community has lifted adding some additional areas. The main thing is we want things that are clear and obvious and objective in nature. We don't want subjective type things. We're not going to end up assisting, was it holding or not, or was it pass interference. But this year, there are three areas added to replay assist. We can end up helping with the one area wrapping the passer that is somewhat objective, and that is, was the head or neck area actually contacted? So, if the official, the referee on the field has a flag for wrapping the passer because he had a hit to the head and there was absolutely nothing in the head and neck area that was touched, we can help pick that flag up. The out of bounds play, where a player is either in or out of bounds by rule. And so, the officials, the only thing they rule is that he was out of bounds when he got hit, but we can actually see he was in bounds when he got hit. We can help with that.

And then, the third area is relative to the two areas that are objective in nature with intentional rounding. With the quarterback in, out of the pocket and the ball gets to the line of scrimmage, we can help with that. And then, if the quarterback is clearly not under duress, meaning he's not being pressured, he just simply, well, that route's not good.

Let me just throw the ball away. He's allowed to do that if he's not under duress as long as he doesn't spike the ball straight at his feet. So, those are three areas that the fans, if they end up hearing the referee make an announcement after replay assist, the runner is not out of bounds. There is no foul for unnecessary roughness. That came from the replay assist process. Walt, I'm giving you a touchdown on that.

That is fantastic. The roughing the passer conundrum, where everybody sees it, everybody sees it at home through replay, that the roughing the passer call should not have occurred because that hit in the area that the ref, you know, and it's, I'm not denigrating. It's a tough job and you are the first line of defense. You are the thinnest of blue lines right there to try and protect players. So, the flag comes out under that notion, but it's off. It's wrong. Now replay assist can buzz in and say, hey, huddle up.

We're taking a look at this thing. There was no contact for roughing the passer. Pick up the flag.

That is what can happen week one, game one in the National Football League this year is what you're saying. That is correct, Rich. You know, as you all know, most of the areas of roughing the passer have subjective components. Was it weight or not? We're not going to get into that. Was it body weight or not? You know, did he pick the quarterback up and slam him to the ground?

Those kinds of components are judgment. Those have to be left on the field. But, you know, if the only thing that was called was you hit him in the head and we've got video evidence that you hit him in the shoulder from that standpoint, that's what we can help with.

Okay. What about spotting the ball? Can replay assist help with spotting the football? There was a game last year where it was a clear first down for the Rams.

They wound up being shy. They didn't have any timeouts left to challenge. Sometimes replay assist can help with spotting the ball.

They didn't seem to jump in right there. Just as a for instance, what about spotting the football? Can replay assist chime in and say you're off on the spot here?

Yes, we can. I mean, it's clear and obvious. I think the example that you're mentioning, Rich, is it was one of those things where you didn't really have a good reference point and being able to see the ball, the line of the game and so forth, put all those elements together to make it clear and obvious, that would end up having to be something that would have to be challenged. So the replay assist is to try to deal with those things that are crystal clear, crystal obvious, that everybody can see there's no analysis there. It's like, you know, the foot's out of bounds, you know, or the ball hit the ground, those kinds of things. So basically replay assist, and again, just walk everyone through the mechanics here, because there's so much crazy tinfoil hat stuff that goes on in these moments because we're not seeing an official throw a flag. We're hearing somebody say, hold on a second, somebody who's not here is chiming in, they're watching TV just like you and making a decision that's going to affect the outcome of this play, this quarter, this game, this scoring drive or what have you. So it's a group of individuals sitting in the Art McNally Center in New York City looking at it and then watching each and every game and then chiming in and connecting with the official? Well, that was the replay official who was at the stadium and a part of that crew, the replay official, works with that same crew every week, so they're used to working. So it's really, you know, a two-fold approach. The replay official at the stadium is looking.

We're in constant communication from New York with that official and we've got staff people in New York who are also looking, and so it's kind of like the first one that can get to it, you know, go ahead and chime in from that standpoint. But, you know, the two main areas is that it's not meant to replace the challenge system by a coach. It's really designed that if the information is clear and obvious and can be communicated quickly, then that's what we're going to do because the mechanics of it, which, you know, if a team is in a hurry-up situation and the ball's about to be snapped, we can't really jump in with replay assists because the game has dictated that the pace of the game then takes precedence. So then that would have to be a challenge, and that certainly occurs more often against the defensive team than the offensive team because the offensive team controls the pace of the game.

Last one for you. How come the GPSing of football is being spotted instead of the sticks that seem to work in preseason? How come that didn't get instituted for the playing season in 2024, Walt? It's kind of just because there's so much testing that has to go on, and we've got to be sure we can test it in all 30 stadiums, Rich. There are some behind-the-scenes processes that sometimes work really well, and there were some others that we learned didn't work as well, so we've got to take those learning experiences, work at refining those here during the course of the year.

It'll be addressed next spring again by the competition committee, and everybody is anticipating that we'll continue to evolve that, test it obviously a lot more in the preseason, and if that testing ends up being successful, it's very likely that it might end up being ready for the 2025 season to roll without during the regular season. Walt, thanks for the time. Really appreciate it. Look for more of my calls and requests for your time to explain stuff, Walt. Rich, anytime, just let me know. I enjoyed being on your show. Right back at you. That's Walt Anderson, former senior VP of officiating.

He is now the NFL's rules official and rules analyst right here on The Rich Eisen Show. There you go. So you get your explanation as to why they didn't put the GPS tracking in the place of the moving the sticks, the chain game? Sure. They're not ready yet.

It's not ready. That's number one. And then number two, don't ever doubt me from this chair when I'm talking about making rules changes. Please don't. Please don't.

Please don't. How many years have I been howling from this chair to use replay assist to help us in roughing the passers? How many years? Like ten? I will answer.

It has been every single day. All of them. Ten years on this show. All of them. All of them.

I don't know, Rich, I mean, that's crazy. You're going to use replay to do that? You're opening a Pandora's box? No.

It is finally here, and it's not far enough for me. You heard Walt say, well, we're not going to use it for judgment calls. That's subjective about body weight. Well, I think you could tell when Chris Jones sacked Derek Carr on a Thursday night and in the process ripped the ball out while taking another arm and using it to brace himself so he didn't fall completely full weight on him. You could see that via replay.

Baby steps were finally there. Rough in the pass, you hit him in the helmet. No, we didn't. We hit him directly in the chest. Now replay assist will say, pick the flag up, huzzah.

That's huge. And the play you got in my ear about, Justin Herbert. The Herbert play, yeah. Getting clearly smoked. Out of bounds. Out of bounds. And there's a flag on the play. There was no flag on the play.

Oh, that's right. No flag on the play. No flag on the play.

He got lit up. Well, now replay assist can come in and say, that's an illegal hit. Huzzah. That's good. Now obviously people are going to start complaining about replay assist taking up time. Well, the idea is.

It doesn't. If you have a replay official in the stadium and you have a replay official in New York, somebody, as he said, is going to be able to notice it that fast, rack it back because they're probably experts at racking video back and forward and being able to just hold on a second, huddle up. That's all you got to say is to the officials, huddle up. No, did I hear him right? Give us another 20, 30 seconds time to huddle up and let's talk about it.

And we could even, it could be like that scene from Bull Durham. Like who's getting married? You can do candlesticks. Is that good?

Who's getting married? Just do that while they take a look and get in your ear and say, pick the flag up. That's all. Give us an extra 20, 30 seconds time. If there's not a two minute drill going on. But sorry, let's take a break here.

We're up against it anyway. 844-204 Rich is the number to dial here on the program. There's some video of photographic evidence I need to review from yesterday's program as well. Let's talk O'Reilly Auto Parts people. You love their jingle. You're going to love their friendly, helpful service even better because they're in the business of keeping your car on the road and the parts knowledge they have. It's all you need for your maintenance and repairs. They've got thousands of parts and accessories in stock, either in store or online.

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Three, two. Hey everybody, there's a great new podcast that just launched I want to tell you about. It's called Throwbacks, and I know the guys who are doing it. It's hosted by former Entourage star Jerry Ferrara and former USC quarterback Matt Leinart, the 2004 Heisman Trophy winner, who then went on to play in the National Football League for the Arizona Cardinals. So Matt has a ton of experience to tell you about, playing for an iconic college football team, winning that trophy, and then of course all the behind the scenes stories from his time in college and professional football, while Jerry is one of the leads of an iconic television series. He's got you covered on what it was like being a young guy starring in a show that everyone was talking about, and he's also the voice of the fans. So Matt brings that former player expertise, and Jerry brings that voice of the maniacal sports fan. Enjoy hanging out with your new favorite pair of throwbacks every Thursday. Follow and subscribe to Throwbacks on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know how much we love SVP.

Like there it is, I see the quotes that work, and I just, I just slam it in there on the script and read it on television. Fake news. Fake news. Hashtag, yes.

Hashtag, fake news. I'm mortified. Apologies to Mr. Hoxsey. I'm sorry. We did not, that was not our intent. We didn't know it was going to happen like that.

That's entirely on us for not vetting. It goes off to me that I'm not able to find this anywhere, but there, but again, and this is where I'll turn it and point at you and blame you, Mitch Eisen. When you're a source of information and you've got stuff no one else has got, you think, yeah, sure, I've got the Hoxsey retirement letter.

And it's, I guess, believable that he's got his own stationery with himself on it, where there's a watermark of him as a rat. As believable as it is that he's going to go sort out the lactic acid with this regimen. Vigorous regimen.

Vigorous regimen. Vigorous, I beg your pardon. You're the best, man. You're the best. I'm sorry. You're the worst.

Don't spoof me like that anymore. Good to see you, SVP, back on the Midnight Sports Center this week. Back here on the Rich Eisen Show game time tickets. Get the app on a mobile device near you and start buying football tickets. College football is back in full swing this weekend. The professional football world back in action the following weekend.

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Terms apply. Visit gametime.co for restrictions. Again, create an account. Redeem my code RICH. You get $20 off. Download game time today. What time is it? Game time. Great show yesterday, and I don't like saying that because that means when I don't say it, I might mean that the previous show wasn't great either. This one just had two in-studio guests, and they met each other as well, Andrew Whitworth and Karl-Anthony Towns, just two great humans who just happened to be excellent at football and excellent at basketball, and Kat came in wearing his Jalen Hurts jersey, right? And he stuck around for 15 minutes afterwards.

He didn't want to leave. It was like a Jewish gabbah. It was great.

We chopped it up for a minute. And we just had a blast. It was so fun. I think Kat and I came up with a little thing to do with each other, like Zoom in every Sunday after football games. Well, there you are with your cowboy flag. He had fun with it.

You had fun with it. And speaking of Zooming in, there's something here that's a little off, okay? Something in here that's a little off that I was looking at, and I'm like, what's wrong with this picture? Well, Adam's in the photo.

Well, no, no, that's not it. It's just that, you know, Chris, you are taller than me, but not that much taller than me. And I'm like, why would it be like I'd be looking at Chris's mouth if I turned to my left? It's just like the angle, okay? I'm like angled in front of you a little bit. No, no, no, no, no.

Or it could be you on your tippy toes, resting the heels of your, resting your heels on the desk, on the Rich Eisen Show desk to make you taller in the photograph with the rest of us and Karl-Anthony Towns. Okay. This is to use the parlance of Karl-Anthony Towns' world. This is a flagrant two. It's a flagrant two. Like, what are you trying to do?

What are you trying to do? Here, I'll admit to it. Yeah, you have to admit.

It's the evidence. All right, I see. And I'm not going to apologize for it. I do it in every photo. That's what you do? Understand. I do it in every photo. Right at the last second, I kind of, a little bit, just to look a little taller, especially when I'm in a photo with a guy who's seven feet tall.

So what? I don't want to look like a child. You are a child for doing this. Disagree. I look great.

I look, I look, I mean, I look 6'4 in that photo, which is fantastic. Kind of what I'm going for. And I'm totally good with it. Well, I'm not going. I don't feel shame, and I don't apologize. You do it all the time.

I do it all the time. He does. I don't know why everyone's just now noticing.

Well, I'll just say this. It's a flagrant two. It may be a flagrant one. No, it's a flagrant two. And if you do it again, It's a technical. It now adds to a flagrant one. And I don't know if we're going to be able to have you in these photographs.

That's a YP? I'm still getting in photos, and I'm still going to do it. I'm just letting everybody know. I probably have 30 pictures where he's I've been doing it for years. I mean, I literally have to go through files to find them.

Well, I mean, if the files exist, we're going to find them. But I'm saying, yeah, that's his thing. I don't even think about doing it now.

It's literally just instinct. We're in a photo? What? Then I don't want you next to me. Fine. I don't want you next to me.

Who's got shoulders, though? I got an idea. You start doing it.

I don't want to do it because I'm an adult. I am who I am. Why? I'm not trying to cast myself as something I'm not.

He'll be fine. My eyes see. And it's not like I'm short. I'm six feet tall. You're taller than me. But in a photo with a seven-footer, I don't want to look like Del Tufo. You're not that much taller than me, though, because you go like that. There's a picture of me in between. Mike, I am taller than you. There's a picture of me in between Whitworth and Carl Anthony Towns. I put it on my Instagram stories today.

Looks great. I don't care that I'm looking that small, because I'm six feet and I'm standing next to a gargantuan individual. That is great, Chris. You're not taller. You're not taller than me by that size and certainly not next to Chudwin, either. Adam's one of those taller than you think. Yep. Guess what?

I look huge in that photo, and I'm great with it. Now, next time, you can't be anywhere near the desk. There's going to have to be. The desk isn't going to stop. I don't think I'm propped up on the desk. I think that's just the way it looks.

Yeah, I think it looks like that. Yeah. He's not going to stop. Flagrant two. You have one flagrant two. I'm going to stand on the decks the next time. I've been doing this for years.

You've been yellow carded. That I accept. I've been doing this for years. I'm going to stand on the decks. We need an apple box for Del Tuco.

I'm just going to get an apple box. Yeah, exactly. I'm who you are, Mikey. Don't worry about it. I've got to say, it was weird, though. Me being 6'3 and the whole time talking to him, I'm like. Oh, God.

It was unbelievable. Dude, it's tough to talk to people like that big, dude. Man. Just imagine how much bigger Wenby is. He's like four inches taller than him.

By the way, you know what? Brady's that tall, too, man. Yeah. He's sneaky bigger than him. This is flagrant two, yellow card, whatever you want to call it. It's absurd. What a technical.

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