REShow: Allen Hughes - Hour 3 (5-5-2023)

This is the Rich Eisen Show.

I love this. Rich Eisen is here. The mojo's back.

Yeah baby. Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. I told you my favorite words I get to say in this microphone. The Rich Eisen Show.

This is what we're talking about. Earlier on the show, host and creator of Roku's Honest Renovations, Jessica Alba, ESPN, NBA insider Ramona Shelburne. Coming up, director of FX's Dear Mama, Alan Hughes. And now, it's Rich Eisen. Our number three of the Rich Eisen Show is on the air. And we come on the air in our number three of this program on this Friday, first Friday of May, leading to the Kentucky Derby weekend and then the furtherance of the NBA and NHL playoffs this weekend.

We come on the air with Robert Sala of the New York Jets meeting with the media right now. He is slated to be our first guest next week, by the way. We got a great in-studio guest list next week. Our buddy of this program, Kevin Pollak of Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, which is one of my favorite shows on television. Also, Ted Lasso's Jason Sudeikis, slated to be here next week.

They're all scheduled to appear. The director of Dear Mama on FX, episode four of the five-part documentary that airs tonight on FX and streams the next day on Hulu. Alan Hughes is in our green room right now. We will bring him out to talk about this fabulous documentary and the rest of his work that we all love so much.

He'll be joining us in studio hour number three. Jessica Alba already called in the program and told us her perspective of meeting Sauce Gardner and Aaron Rodgers. In a very hilarious way. In a very hilarious way. I like that she kept calling him kid.

20-year-old kid. Like she was flattered that Sauce might have been hitting on her friend. Can't wait to tell her that.

She's like surprised that he might be doing that. And obviously I wasn't there. I'm just trying to read into 280 characters on Twitter. Him referring to himself as him because she remembered everything that he said. He said like two days later, you still remember every word I said. Every word I said.

I must be him. He needs more confidence. Well, she said she was struck by the fact that a young man came up, you know, her husband's name is Cash, Cash Warren. And how she's used to seeing, you know, knowing a unique name.

Kid walked up with his drip. Oh, this is Sauce. His parents must have really liked him. I just I didn't want to interrupt and say, you know, his name is Ahmed. You know, they didn't really name him. But I didn't want to interrupt her flow. You called himself Sauce, right? I don't know how.

And as I said, everybody needs to back off him for not knowing her because he is a unicorn who needs to be treated very, very gently with love and nurturing because it affects my life greatly. That's my man right there. As another as another as another Staten Islander would say, that's Method Man. That's one of my favorite drops. Holler at your boy. Yep.

Shaolin. At any rate, Alan Hughes will be coming out here shortly on the program. Great chat with Ramona Shelburne. Shelburne, she believes that that we'll see Butler back. But when Butler comes back, he won't be the same. Hopefully his his ankles got the Mahomes in it. You know, the treatment he's going, they call up Kansas City for for their version of treatment. Unfortunately for them, there's not a week between games.

Oh, wait a minute. I'm being told that they're not playing tonight. So there's that. The Knicks hopefully get an extra day to get Julius Randall back in the game.

And if Julius is back in the game and keeps advancing, that means Jessica Alba is more front front row tickets because that's who she said hooked her up with tickets. So they last played Tuesday. Yeah.

And then they are going to play Saturday. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, can we get these days off? Like if only the Clippers had that right.

Oh, man. Lakers waters every other night. Celtic Sixers every other night.

What do you mean if we could get these days off? Well, you said Sixers. You said Clippers and I meant Clippers. I thought he meant like, you know, I'm sitting right here.

Did you really take it like that? Remember, I'm the guy who's never missed a day of work, so I wouldn't think that. What is he doing tonight that's required him to miss today's program? Do we know? I have no idea.

Probably the USFL. Yeah. I'm going to set up and then the Angels and then the. Somebody's got to make sure that the seven win A's sound great on FS1. No hitter for seven.

I don't have everything ready. That's the guy. They lost the game. Man. How's last place? Can I say this, by the way, before we get to. You can say whatever you want. Whatever.

Like the Yankees are. No, no, no, no. It's fine. It's fine. You're trolling me a week ago about being five hundred.

How's last place? Well, you know what? Things can change really quick. You know how it started and how it's going are totally different. The Yankees are our our our injury racked. And I assume that won't happen all season long. You know, so we'll see.

Your team just sucked out of the gate with everyone that you had. So, you know, Yoshida was a little hurt and he's on fire right now, by the way. He's been terrific.

Can I chime in real quick before we get to what's more likely to show on Wanda Franco? And the play that went viral while I was at that, I loved it. It was the coolest thing I've seen this year.

I just I can't understand how. A league that is being lauded. About pace of play. That people now that it's going fast, it's going great pace of play is is great.

We got a better pace of play and it's a better product. People are now there are some who are now complaining about a pace of a throw. Was that a pace of throw wasn't fast enough because he flipped the ball in the air. Look, Wanda Franco, if he's flipping the ball in the air and catching it and throwing the first and doing that. And if he's late on the throw, you know what he won't do again? That. Correct. So he's only messing with his own opportunity to throw somebody out. You know, and and I saw that I'm like, well, you're playing with your own fire, kid. You know, like do do that, do that with Otani.

Try that one on for size. Do that with, you know, name anybody who can get down a first. And by the way, as we all know, part of the pace of play rules and everything else come larger bases.

So you better collect that ball and make the throw. I saw it and I honestly didn't think a thing about it. And maybe I'm being too naive. It was cool. Cool.

It's great. Like if that's what he wants to do and they're feeling great. And by the way, they're like the the eighty four tigers right now winning twenty six. The last thing that won twenty six of their first thirty two of the eighty four tigers. And they're just they're coming to New York right now.

They are ready to just destroy the Yankees who are, you know, I'm assuming still without everybody. Then fine, you know, and you don't like it, then beat the throw. You don't like it. Then, you know. I honestly don't know, like, did that ruin the game? Like, are we did it really ruin baseball?

We're talking about it, right? I mean, plus, what if we didn't see the play? What if the first baseman was a little late get into the bag and he was just like, you know, that's the same way as Brockman saying maybe it wasn't a Patriot fan who trolled that Atlanta Falcon superfan or in the draft. Maybe it was a saint fan. It could have been correct.

They hate each other. The first baseman may not have been there in time, but he wasn't. By the way, that did. That was like a room service. That was like he wasn't just flipping the ball in the air because his teammate wasn't ready to receive it. No, that was. No, he's feeling himself. He's feeling himself.

I went yard earlier in the game. We're killing everybody. They are exactly exactly what it is.

It was great. More of that. It's just like that flipping. We love that flipping. This is ball flipping.

It's the exact same thing. The back flipping thing is just like, you know what? Your pitcher is going to give one up.

You might as well just treat the everyone like they deserve to be treated. And, you know, I see it in little league games. You know, my son's finishing up his regular season schedule is a couple of teams that, you know, that show show up other kids. And it's just like showing up other kids.

They're having fun and enjoying their own. I mean, you know, look, the bat flipping I could do without the ball flipping. It's just like, hey, man, it's going to be on you if the guy beats the runner. And then it'll be up to the manager to say, you know, or another teammate to pull him aside and like, let's not do that.

It's not like he's showing somebody up like, I got you. You know, like you're actually running the risk of that extra flip. You don't catch it. Or when you do grab it, you're not gripping the ball properly. I mean, that one's on you. So the other thing is, you know, with a bat flip, it's like your pitcher will most likely give one up tonight.

Your team will most likely give one up tonight. And do you want your pitcher to have that happen? I don't know.

Also, was this ball flip, was this a one time thing? I haven't seen it yet. I've never seen him do it before. So it's like, what's the big deal? I haven't seen it yet.

The Friday's year. There it is. I mean, look at that.

He's looking at it. I mean, it is just so dominant right now. It's ridiculous.

I don't know. I couldn't stop watching it. He's feeling it.

I've seen it a thousand times. He's feeling it. But again, pace of play is so important, but pace of throw? Now we're going crazy, right? Boy, everything's moving so fast. And that was not fast enough. Yeah.

Pace of throw. All right. It's a Friday staple.

It's called What's More Likely? Let's hit it before Alan Hughes comes out here to talk about his documentary Dear Mama. Hit it, please.

What? What's more likely? Never say never, but never. All right, Christopher, what do we got over there? We'll go fast.

We'll start with Lamar Jackson. We got time. Hey, did you hear he signed a new contract yesterday? I did.

I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. In the next five years, what's more likely? Lamar throws for 6,000 yards in a season or the Ravens win a Super Bowl? I will say Ravens win a Super Bowl.

Nobody's throwing for 6,000 yards in a season. I disagree. Okay.

Someone will. Okay. 17th game. Passing is just getting even more prolific. I got it.

I got it. I don't think we'll ever see that number hit, but maybe I'm wrong and I don't think Lamar's going to be the one to do it. They run it too much, man.

Let me tell you something. J.K. Dobbins, if he doesn't get the ball 15 times a game put in his belly button, he's going to go nuts. He wants it and they should give it to him, by the way.

They should give it to him. And, you know, winning a Super Bowl is more likely than a 6,000 yard season. What else?

Starting right now, today, May 5th. Who's more likely to win multiple playoff games first? Jordan Love or Aaron Rodgers? Rodgers. Get out of here with this old Jordan Rodgers. Get out of here.

What do you mean? Don't. Dude. Come on.

NFC? Come on. Not stacked.

Come on. AFC? I know what you think of the Jets.

Incredibly stacked. I know what you think of the Jets and the Jets. Let's see.

A history of being a great franchise for as long as we've known them or the Jets. Okay. Don't insult me. That's my answer. I'm not even going to give you an answer other than don't insult me.

Insulting who? So, Jordan Love's going to win multiple playoff games before Aaron Rodgers? What if Aaron Rodgers only plays one year? I'll ask you the question. What's more likely for you? Jordan Love's going to answer your own question. You pose me. I'm the host. Answer your own question. You pose me. All right. Next. Uh-huh. Seriously. Come on, man.

Come on. Why didn't they give Jordan Love a three or four-year contract? They're still waiting, seeing? This whole time, they're still hedging a bet. They get rid of Rodgers.

They finally get the runway that they finally want, but we haven't seen enough of them yet. But we got to see him first before we get, which I totally understand. When was the last time Aaron Rodgers was good in the playoffs? But we're hedging bets.

But we're hedging bets. When was the last time Rodgers was good in the playoffs? Oh, come on. Right.

Last time they played the Cowboys. I mean, you don't like facts? Okay. All right. Great. Okay. Great.

I'm going to make it awkward every single week. Same intensity. I want it. Same energy. By the way, remember that you wanted it.

The Patriots played the Jets. Just remember. Just remember that you wanted it. I got it. I will remember. Okay. I won't lose that intensity either. Great.

All right. Titans quarterback. Start more games this year. Will Levis arrive Tannehill? Uh, I'll still go Tannehill. I'll still go Ryan Tannehill.

Man, I, I, you know, I'm, I know I gave the top five list of biggest mysteries going into the season. I could have included Tannehill and the, and the Titans, but I think a lot of folks would retort what's so mysterious about a team that's clearly in a rebuild. Um, so, um, not that far removed from, I still, unless Tannehill gets hurt, I think they still intend to play him and give Levis the, the, the, the, um, watch year. You know, give him a year of observation.

So, um, that, that clearly, um, you know, Andy Reed was on the show on Monday. Absolutely thought it was imperative to give Holmes the, the year that he got watching Alex Smith. So I'll, I'll, I'll go Tannehill. I'll go Tannehill on that one.

All right. First round running back. You're drafting first in fantasy this year, Bijan or Jabir? You know what?

You still have to go Bijan. But the whole, let me tell you something, the Jamir Gibbs story, you know, the more we're removed from the draft, the more I hear that Detroit was going to take him at six and that as he was dropping, that's who teams were trading up to go get. And there were some people that thought the Eagles were moving up to go get him, you know, and obviously we forgot about their Georgia Bulldog affixation and how, you know, Jalen Carter was dropping, but there's all sorts of talk as to who was going to take Jamir Gibbs. If the, if the lines weren't hopping on him at 12, that said, I still think everyone's going to take Bijan because he's a bell cow type guy, despite obviously the Falcons having a ton of guys who could run it.

I don't know. We'll see what happens. But at this point in time, I think Bijan will probably be a higher pick in fantasy.

And I'm only saying that to cover my tracks with my own fantasy draft right now. That's called three-dimensional. What's more likely? You got one more? You got a couple? Yeah, of course. Of course. I got a few more. All right.

Forty-niners quarterback stock. Oh God. You'd rather own this season Trey Lance or the guy sitting courtside. Wow.

Last night. How about, how about Bruck Purdy? I'd rather own stock that one. Rich, he hasn't thrown a football yet. I got it. I'd still rather, I'd still rather own it. And still a month away from throwing a football.

I'd still rather own it. Really? Yeah. Sam Darnold's courtside with George Kittle and Christian McCaffrey? Is Jessica Alba playing for the Jets or just meeting the Jets? It doesn't matter who's courtside.

What do you care? Well, Jessica Alba's not on the team. How do you know what Trey Lance? Trey Lance may be somewhere, you know, where's Trey Lance?

So Trey's not at the Warrior Games, so of course he's, he's out. Wow. Wow.

Who would I, I'd rather have Trey Lance's stock. How about that? Okay.

Certainly since he's going to play games for somebody else this year. Hey. My man. But man, the Sam Darnold bandwagon, get, get, get your tickets now because they'll soon be asking you to get off for a future bandwagon, man. He's dapping up clay last, I mean, what do you mean?

It's oversold. Sam Darnold, not seeing ghosts for the Jets anymore and, and, and the first, the first three weeks of the Matt rule season, uh, Sam Darnold is going to show up in San Francisco because he's, I mean, uh, they're going to sprinkle the Shanahan dust on him and it's going to be awesome. He does. He deserves it.

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it. This is Sam Darnold shine. Seeing ghosts. You got one more. Last one.

Uh, here we go. More, more likely, uh, AFC team to make the super bowl. One of the big three, Casey, Cincinnati Buffalo or the field. Um, I'll take, I'll, I'll still take the, I'll still take the three on the screen, man.

Dalton Kincaid drafting was really good and the, and the Bengals, the Bengals drafted people to go hunt my homes and, and, and put points on the board for borough. I'll still take one of those three. Which one would you take? I think I'd still take a big three. Would you take the big three too? Over over the rest of the field? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, look, Patrick, my homes, that's all I'm going to say. How can you not bet on this dude? I got free barbecue in that town after what I said. So good for you. You're back.

I'm back. Oh, Bo Jackson just scored his second touchdown. Was it the 90 yarder? Uh, yeah. I'm like, he just ran into the tunnel. He just ran into the tunnel on NFL network.

Yep. There he is. I mean, this is happening on NFL network right now. Look at the replay. He got the ball on the five yard line and then he's out the gate and see ya. That just happened. And Kenny easily is not going to get him.

I wonder what his fastest 40 of 91 yards, three, eight, probably he went in the tunnel looking for Ken Phelps. All right. We'll take a break here. Alan Hughes coming up next, talking about Tupac and so much more.

The director of FX is dear mama. When we return, man, do you get distracted during the day? Thinking about your underarms, sweating, itching, or emitting an odor? Do those thoughts keep you from showing care when it counts new and improved dove men plus care antiperspirant with 72 hours, sweat, and odor protection and one quarter moisturizing cream helps you forget about your underarms so you can be present for the moments that matter.

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It's not really hitting both through the screws. Plus local podcasts like believe in Astros and believe in the Bronx. You're going to have to get some more innings out of the rotation. Just search BLEAV podcast wherever you listen. Back here on our rich eyes and show Roku channel live stream with our rich eyes and show radio audience. Alan Hughes, the director of FX is dear mama again, an episode airing tonight, episode four of all five tonight on FX streams the next day on Hulu. This is amazing. Why did you do this Alan? I wasn't sure I wanted to do it at first, but when I realized I didn't understand him the way I wanted to understand Tupac and also realizing I was raised by a single mother on welfare who was a feminist and at the forefront of the women's rights movement. So I related to that with his mother and I said, wow, if I can tell his story through the prism of his mother's journey in multiple parts, I'll do it. And I pitched it to the estate and they were with it, you know, and I think what I most didn't understand about Tupac is that last year of his life on death row seems so detached from his first 23, 24 years as a social justice warrior and an advocate for human rights and women's rights and you know, he seemed to have given into the excesses of being a rock star and I couldn't make sense of that and I think that's why I took on the project.

Well let's get into the conflict that you just referred to right there Alan Hughes. Your first time you met Tupac was when? I met him in 91 at a Waffle House in San Francisco with all of Digital Underground, which he was a part of at the time, but he was not famous yet.

His album, first album Tupac, now had not dropped, Juice had not come out. I didn't know it was in the can and I'm sitting at this Waffle House and there's this 19 year old at the end of the table, Shaq G, Money B, all the personalities were there, but he stood out as the funniest, he was roasting everyone at the table, the most charismatic and there's just something about him. People say, how do you know when you meet him, how did you, it's like saying how do you know it's a bonfire right there, you feel the heat and you put your hand and it gets burnt like it was that obvious this kid was a star. He's different, special. That's something.

Special, definitely special. Even if you didn't intellectually know it, your body and your spirit felt it. You felt it.

Okay. When did you first work with him then? Soon after that, he called us for his first music video, probably one month later. He asked, he said, look, I'm going to have my record label call you guys. When I met him, I saw your short films. I didn't believe him like this, whatever, you know.

Right. A month later, we're on the set of Trapped, his first single and that began a year long friendship and working relationship that ended kind of violently. So then what can you get into the end of it, if you don't mind, you and your brother were involved in all this stuff, right? Well, you know, we had the script for Menace's Society, which sold, we sold to New Line at the time, New Line Cinema. And they said they won't green light it unless we had a platinum recording artist. And he agreed to play a supporting role because he didn't want to play the main role because he was committed to John Singleton in the film space. And as we started rehearsals, you know, his star was rising and he was becoming a little more erratic. I didn't understand why. And he just kept disrupting the rehearsals and it was just, I mean, it was yelling.

It was crazy. So I tried, I tried, I tried and he just wouldn't, he wouldn't, he wouldn't listen to reason. So I ended up having to fire him.

And some months later after the film was ready and we're doing the music videos for the soundtrack, we weren't directing the music video. We showed up. He had 10 guys ply with alcohol and weed and an attack took place on me.

On you? Yep. Did you get hurt? I got hurt bad.

I went to the hospital. Yep. Yep. It was, there's this misconception that Tupac and me had a fight. It wasn't that. And that's how it ended. It was retribution.

It was some sort of... Yeah, yeah. He said on MTV, he said it. He said on MTV, on UMTV Raps, I'm looking for those guys.

And when I catch him, like that's how I won the court case because he didn't keep his mouth shut. And eventually, you know, when he got out of prison, before he went to prison, he apologized in Vibe Magazine, famously apologized to Quincy Jones as well. And as I'm making the movie, I see interviews that I had never seen before with Tabitha Sorn on MTV where he went on, not only apologized, said he hoped that he can work with us. He thought we were great filmmakers.

I'd never heard this before. And I'm just glad I did the project because, you know, like Snoop's in the film as well. Snoop was really tight with Tupac. As men, we've grown and you have these misunderstandings as boys. And it may be ego, it may be whatever's involved, but to get to a place where you go, what happened? You know, and I was just curious, you know, like what happened? How did this happen, you know? So that's the conflicted feeling when, I guess, was it brought to you that you would be the one to direct a documentary on Tupac and his mom, I mean, or?

Not like that. Okay. The estate approached me about directing a Tupac documentary. I went home for three days. I did not want to do it. I go, let me think about this. And then I had that aha moment with the mother. So you're the one who came up with the concept of let's find out who he was through the prison of his mom. Absolutely.

Why did you? Because again, it's your own. It's personal to me.

Right. You know, and I'm a, I'm not even a closet feminist. I'm a feminist. I'm just wired. That's how I was raised.

As hardcore as Afeni was about social justice and black issues in the community and breakfast programs and rent strikes and everything she was involved in, my mother was that radical about women's rights. And I'm wired like that. I, you know, I hear when men call a woman girl, it hits me like a bad note.

You know, I hear things like a woman. So I see things that way. And that's probably why I did it.

Why did the estate reach out to you? Did they? Did they? I mean, old. Yeah. Don't you think? I mean, yeah.

I mean, they came in to edit. I did a docu-series before this one called the Defiant One. I've heard of that. Yeah. Congratulations on that, by the way. Oh man.

Is that how you booked Dr. Dre? You're right. You're right.

Oh my God. You already had the end? And that was like, that did so well and it was great. But Tupac, there was a, part three was, he was heavily featured in part three, so the estate had to come and approve things.

Yes. And it was not simple. They are the only estate that came down in the editing room for five hours and it was a tug of war. They were in the edit room? They came in the edit room like, you got to take this out or, you know, negotiated this or that. They were tough. And I understand now they both walked out, the two individuals that were from the, executive of the estate, who are still there. They were like, you know what, wow. They enjoyed the experience and they, and they saw what the show did and how it was a fresh angle on him and taken and they called me a year later. Alan Hughes here on the Rich Eisen Show. Fascinating, man. Dear Mama, again, about Tupac and his mother on FX Tonight and then it'll be on Hulu the next day.

You can watch that right here on the Roku platform. So who was your favorite to interview for this documentary? Snoop is always my favorite to interview because he's become such a wise sage and he's such a, I've never met a rock star that can listen with the depth he listens and then add to it. He listens with his heart and usually these rock stars, they tend to, they listen with their ego.

So I'm always, and I go back with Snoop 30 years, but still I'm always leave him when my tank fills up. I feel inspired. I feel like I learned something, but outside of Snoop, I think Tupac's Aunt Glow, Afeni's only sister, is the revelation as far as storytellers. She is an incredible woman. She just turned 78 yesterday and in this film you're like, oh my God, this runs in the family. The honesty, the charisma, the humor. So his Aunt Gloria Cox is her real name, but we call her Glow.

So you liked, that's my favorite. So she would tell you stories about his upbringing and just kind of the person who you could drive that storytelling through. She was the one, like the fish rots from the head or lives from the head. She's the head and before I interviewed her on camera, I went to Atlanta and she cooked me some of Tupac's favorite meals, particularly fried chicken, mashed potatoes and potato salad and all that good stuff that's not good for us that she does so well and we talked over dinner and I just was taken with her spirit. She reminds me of Snoop. They have that thing in common. They're great storytellers, very grounded, very salt to the earth, almost mystical in her storytelling abilities, but didn't know that because she never had to be in the spotlight.

She was always behind Afeni willingly and Tupac, but she had to come out and was forced to tell her sister's story because Afeni passed away in 16, unfortunately. I love Snoop. He's one of my favorite people that I've gotten to meet. He's been here on the show. I just love his, well, I got to meet him through his love of football and through NFL network that way and his youth coaching and him going up against Deon's teams every now and then for a Snooper Bowl, at the Super Bowl.

He was so kind about wanting to be part of my charity run, wanted to put me in a certain, I think he had Adidas shoe line or something like that and there was a hole to do about, it wasn't an official sponsor of the event so I couldn't run in those shoes and it kind of gutted me that I couldn't involve him in something so important and so charitable because he does have that heart. I love him. I love that guy. I always say he took the baton from Muhammad Ali when it comes to that worldwide global feeling of understanding and connectivity and love.

You know, 8 to 80, black, white, Asian, Latin, I don't care who you are, everyone's smiling when they see Snoop. He's got that special thing. I'm actually doing his feature film, The Biopic next. That's my next project.

That's your next project? He brought it to me. I was so surprised, yeah.

Why were you surprised? I don't know. It's just, I just didn't see it come in one and obviously I'm like, I'm sorry.

Also I'm like, how come I didn't think of that? Right. It's not a documentary, a feature film on his life, you know? So that's the next project. So he'll play himself? Well, we have to go find a Snoop.

It's like Straight Outta Compton, but Snoop. Right. Yeah, we have to go find a Snoop, which is the million dollar question. But he'll play himself in his current version, right? I mean, don't you think? No. Oh, no. Okay. That'll be interesting.

That will be, that will absolutely be interesting. Is there anybody you wanted to interview for Dear Mama that refused to do it because there's not enough water underneath the bridge? A lot of people.

A lot of family and friends. Some people are just camera shy. They just don't do that. Right.

I would say his fiance, Kadata Jones, who's always been quite reclusive, Quincy Jones' daughter, but she blessed the project and provided photos. So those, a lot of people that didn't do it would bless us with photos and stuff like that. Right. Now, for the most part, there was enough water under the bridge, as you say, that people stepped up in ways they couldn't 10 or 15 years ago, or didn't have the, now with the hindsight being 20-20, you see tonight's episode is part four called the ambitions of a rider, a rider. Yes. And it's, you'll see the central thesis tonight in the piece and you'll see his family and friends facing some difficult things about the journey. So they're all very frank and honest. And is it coincidence or purposeful that the documentary culminates on Mother's Day weekend?

Thank God that was, I don't know if FX designed it that way or landed that way because it was meant to come out a year ago on Mother's Day, premiere on Mother's Day. Right. I ran so far over budget and over schedule, I don't think they'll let me back in that building again. Oh, come on now. You're not a diva.

You just, you're a perfectionist, you're an artist. You guys have, I know you guys each have a question for him. Yeah, DJ, go ahead.

DJ, you go first. You know, for me, it's not so much just a single question, but, you know, you know, looking back in the day with Pac, you know, you had this guy who was so deep, right? Who would talk about Brenda's got a baby, but then he would flip it, you know, wonder why they call you, you know, whatever. And it was just like, even back then, you think, how does this stuff come from the same mind of the same man who would, who would be so deep, but then the next breath almost go wild out and just start busting, you know, it's just like, so what was he like, truly like to hang with? Was it like he would flip on occasion or, you know, what was it like just to, to hang with him? Well, I think that was the thing that made him unique as a man was, especially young black male, he was available to whatever emotion he was in. If it was rage, he was right there for it. If it was love, he was right there for it. If it was violence, he was right there for it. I've never seen anyone from hour to hour or from day to day switch up like that. And you often keep in mind also, he was raised, he was born into the Panthers.

This was an organization that did not bend knee to authorities or any anyone. So he lived with that, that volatility inside of him. But I think the trauma he inherited in the wake of his mother's, the Panther 21 trial and the FBI, like really decimating that whole crew, they didn't have words for post-traumatic stress syndrome and mental health, any of that stuff. He was born into all that trauma.

And you see why it's, when you, tonight, part four, you'll see in the middle of the series, exactly where all that comes from, you just, you'll see it, you'll see the trajectory of it. And he's also born, people don't notice, he's not a gangster, he's an artist. Or he was a recording artist or an actor, he's a poet, a pure artist and artists don't see the world like everybody else sees the world.

They live in wonderful, sometimes tragic delusions. And that's what we see in him, I think. I always think about the hypothetical, you know, with Tupac, like, do you ever get the sense that he was always destined to kind of pass the way he passed or if he could have made it through those tumultuous late 90s and made it through 2000, he'd still be with us today. He'd be a multiple Oscar winner. Like, who knows what he could have done, like, do you ever think about that? And what's your take? Always. And you'll see it in the film.

The bottom line is he definitely, if he was around, would have been winning Oscars and that would have been his main art form as a movie star, because that's what he had. But when you meet the kid in real life at 19 and all he did on a week-to-week basis is run into fires, naked without a helmet, a fire repellent suit, just run into fires. I knew back then, I go, this isn't going to end well. Even when you were close and loved him and you went on the other side of his anger, you could just do the emotional math and see that it didn't seem he was long for these days and it was very clear. Did he have somebody in his life telling him that? Oh, everyone tried to tell him.

He didn't listen to anyone. But there were sober moments where he would listen to you, but they would flip. And I think that has to do with the trauma that was untreated.

You know, again, we didn't talk about mental health in the 90s, 80s, 70s, that was not even a word, a phrase, you know. Is that why death row was appealing to him? Death row was appealing to him for many reasons. He had just got shot, obviously, in New York.

He's feeling some kind of way about the East Coast. And you got to remember the 90s in hip hop, it was like it was the five crime families. If you weren't with one, you weren't going to survive long. And Tupac was a lone wolf for the first three years of his career. And he also wanted to get out and just like, let's stop with the B.S., let's just rock star out. Dr. Dre's there, there's a whole gang there that can muscle me up.

I'll feel protected. And it was meant to be transit. Like he was just moving through death row, deliver three albums, and then he was on Move On because he had bigger and better plans for his culture and his community. But unfortunately, you know, that role he was in took him out, possibly. So that was the last, you know, you kind of got, you know, hopped on one of the last two questions I was going to ask you and, you know, I've got Alan Hughes here as we wrap up this conversation. Dear Mama on FX episode four or five tonight is, you know, walk me through what Tupac would be doing today.

Like what like let's let's totally go through the looking glass here and fantasize. If he was alive, what would Tupac Shakur look like and be doing today? Rich, can I ask Alan before you even answer that? Because when you listen to a lot of his songs and his lyrics, like, for instance, my remove is a calculated step to bring me closer to embracing early death, I would sit and listen to this, it almost seemed like to me this man knew his time on earth wasn't long. And he said it almost every so did he even think that he would make it long enough to grow?

It's no. I mean, by everyone's estimation, family and friends, that's what surprised me. Everyone says he didn't look at life that way. His mother even says that it was it was by design the way he was working, because he didn't plan on being here.

But if he was, if he had been here, I think Denzel would have some stiff competition. That's the level. You really think so? Oh, yeah. He's that talented.

You would know. So I mean, yeah, really, he was that talented at acting Denzel and Tupac share one thing in common. And I've seen them all. I've been with world class pimps, Charismatics, all over the world as storytellers, whatever you want to it thing, you know, in the streets or in the music business. Denzel and Tupac possess.

I've never seen it when they walk in a room, the emotional intelligence is off the charts, the social intelligence is off genius level of social intelligence. The difference is it's Denzel's wise and very controlled with his emotions and can control his emotions. Yes, Tupac can't. But they Tupac would have been one of our greatest leading men, would have been a multiple Academy Award winner, and the music would have been secondary.

I'm sure he would still continue doing music, but he would be huge in the film world. And then last one for you, Alan Hughes, what would he say if he knew you were the one telling his story in 2023 through his mother? What would he say to that, do you think? I think he'd be moved by that, because that's what he felt for his mother. I think he'd be moved by, you know, there's the good, the bad and the unapologetic and the ugly in the piece. And he was very honest about all his stuff. So I don't think I took any cheap shots, because that's just not who I am. But I tried to paint a full picture of all the complexities, not provide all the answers either, because there are no all getting the answers at one time.

They're just challenging the audience to think in different ways. And I think he'd be moved by that, because we started with him and understood that thing he had. And now I understand what his journey was. And now I have compassion for him. I just didn't have before. So you, through this project, have a more compassionate understanding about what happened between the two of you?

Oh, 100%. And I didn't even think that that would come about. That just happened organically. Maybe the last few months, I've been able to go, oh, wow, it's been a cathartic experience for me. I'm super proud of the journey.

Super proud of what I got to do for my friend. And this is my way of olive branching and saying, here he is. I don't think anyone's ever gotten it right. I tried my best to get it right. And I think he would be proud.

I think he would be. Sir, I appreciate you coming on here. We could do an entire hour on every other project that you have as well. So please come back here and let's keep chopping it up. Thank you for having me, Rich. Any time. Best dad ever. That's correct. That's it. I love it. That will be your next documentary on my parenting.

Dear Mama airs Fridays, and that includes tonight, 10 Eastern on FX Streams, the next day on Hulu. The great Alan Hughes is here on The Rich Eisen Show at Hughes Number Two Society on Twitter to follow this man and everything else that's going on in his life. We'll be back with more in a moment right here on The Rich Eisen Show to wrap up this show and week. Back sitting at The Rich Eisen Show desk right here, furnished by Grainger with supplies and solutions for every industry.

Grainger is the right product for you. Call clickrainger.com or just stop by. Great stuff right there with Alan Hughes on the Tupac documentary that's going down tonight on FX. So while we're having that conversation, Robert Sala, head coach of the New York Jets, held his post draft press conference. Press conferences, May 5th press conference.

You were so excited. Does he know where Garrett Wilson is? Oh boy. I'll ask him that Monday unless you want to when he comes on the show, smart ass. I'll give you the floor.

You want me to keep this level up here, right? So Garrett Wilson, just maybe he's not into the Knicks. I don't know. Garrett Wilson could be working out in Toulouse or something. He loves the Cleveland Cavaliers and he was upset that Knicks bounced him. I'm not going to a game with you, but I love Garrett and I'll catch passes from you. As a matter of fact, that's that video you see over and over again of Rogers, that beautiful part in his hair, throwing a ball, perfect spiral to number 17. Like the old days, just this one's named Wilson, not Adams.

So let's go. Robert Sala was asked, what has he seen from Rogers in practice so far? It's been good. You know, I've never been around a quarterback quite like him personally. And all his experiences, communication, every play, just talking to the receivers, talking to the backs, his demeanor in the meetings, all of that stuff. I mean, he is a, he's almost, he actually is another coach out there.

He's pretty impressive. Robert, I'm guessing when you guys had that brief window to talk to him, that you weren't pressing him about whether he'd be here for the spring program. So how nice is it that it seems like he is all in, so to speak, and he hasn't been here already? Personally, and I don't know if it's the right thing to say, I was never worried about whether or not he was going to be here. I always felt like if he did want to be here, he was going to be here.

If he decided to be a Jed, because he is so competitive and he does understand that he has to get acclimated to the new building, he'll have to get the receivers acclimated to him and he'll have to get the verbiage and get everybody on the help, get everybody on the same page. And that's in my mind of, you just see a fire in a guy's eye when you're sitting and talking to him like, yeah, he's going to do everything. He's coming with, he's coming to win and that's, and you can just feel it in his voice. You can see it in his eyes and the way he's going about his business.

Guys, I need to look. Why is he taking shots at Zach Wilson? I know, right?

I know. And every quarterback he's ever been around, name the 49er. He's probably sitting there.

He's probably sitting there Googling, where's Sullivan? So I can look at who the quarterback was and act like him saying, I've never been around a quarterback quite like this one is a slight, yeah, no, he means being a coach on the field and having the veteran presence, Chris, that's what he means. You think so? Yeah. Oh, okay. You know? What day is it? I don't know.

It's kind of, it's just kind of funny. I cannot wait for the Jets to play the Patriots. Bro, we're going to find out, that's the thing you keep hearing about, because eventually the hype will keep rising. There's going to be an organized team activity he may miss and what's going on and they'll be fine. And then there's a mandatory one that'll show up and he'll talk and it'll be great. And then training camp opens. And then as we all are assuming, you know, hard knocks will be knocking on the door and then we might see them every week during the summer.

And then rubber will eventually meet road or rubber will eventually hit tarmac. And we will find out again in six days, one week from today, we will know the order of the games that are currently on the screen, just broken up for road and home. We've got nine at home, eight on the road. And Mahomes is coming to Jersey, Herbert's coming to Jersey, Jalen Hurts is coming to Jersey, Allen and Tua and Bailey Zappi's coming to New Jersey and, you know, whoever's, Desmond Ritter's coming to Jersey and CJ Stroud's coming to Jersey and we're assuming Sam Howell's coming to Jersey. I mean, I only see one for sure loss, so you could go like 16-1 to be honest with you Rich. They got to go to Denver and the Raiders because that's what always happens and Rogers is going to Dallas and then the Jets and the Giants play each other.

They go to Cleveland and then of course visiting Allen, Tua and Bailey Zappi. So that's all coming. Don't project on to me. I'm not projecting. Don't project. I'm just, oh, I'm sorry. Mac Jones. I don't know. What did I say?

Why are you slipping? I don't know. It depends on who operates the quick game better. But bottom line is we're going to find this out and the hype train is leaving the station and Aaron Rogers is sitting court side and rink side and becoming the elder chaperone of sauce gardener and rubbing elbows with Jessica Alba and I am here for all of it. So same intensity, Chris, when we find out when the Jets play the Patriots, but most importantly when we have our next guest on the program Monday.

First up, Robert Sala of the New York Jets. I'm ready. No, you're not. I don't think you are. What do you want me to ask? Gary Wilson? I'll ask Gary. Nope.

I want to ask about Gary Wilson. Nope. Your microphone will be cut off. Come on. Your LA privileges will be revoked.

Come on. You love Lala Kent on Vanderpump Rules. Now get to know her on Give Them Lala. With her assistant Jess. What you did not see is when Raquel arrives and she wants to talk to me, I made her sit in a corner. Explain. Sat in a corner booth all by herself in the dark. Waiting for to talk to you. Waiting for me to finish dancing to 50 Cent. It's my birthday. Sit in a corner. Give Them Lala wherever you listen.