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Jigger! Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Jabeer, you got no shot at catching that man earlier on the show. Senior writer for the MMQ. Mm-hmm.
Albert Breer, three-time Super Bowl champion, Mark Schlereth. Still to come. Author Jeff Furlman. And now, it's Rich Eisen. That's right.
Hour number three, the Rich Eisen Show is on the air. If you missed any of our first two hours, don't worry, there's our podcast all three hours. There's also. The ability to watch our showback whenever you want on demand through Disney Plus, which we're on every day between 12 and 3 Eastern Time. Same thing on our ESPN app, which gives you all things ESPN anytime you want, everywhere that you are.
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So. And more and growing. When's the plaque coming? Immediately on that. And more and growing.
Sorry? When's the plaque coming? I don't know. Yeah, we want that plaque. Let's get a plaque.
Let's get on that. I don't know. It's going to be that. Let's get on that, YouTube. Do we get to share that plaque like it was a Stanley Cup?
We should each get to take it for a show. You want to get it for a dope? Yeah, yeah. I want to take some pictures of my cup. You know what I'm saying?
That's great. I like that idea. I love that idea. That's right. So, does that mean we need to hire a keeper of the plaque?
Yes. I mean, respectfully, it's slightly less valuable than the cup itself. Liz is the keeper of everything. Liz, I mean keeper of the plaque. Oh, my God.
Without her to travel with you wherever you take it, you know she won't want to do that. Without Liz, we would know how to tie our own shoes.
Well, that's not true. Mike has Velcro. Oh, that's good luck. I'm wearing slip-ons today. No, I don't have Velcro anymore.
Good one, everybody. Good one. Uh The Bengals sign somebody? No.
Okay. It's my shoes. That's normally what we play whenever the Bengal sign. Black Assance Bengal. Black Assance.
Oh, okay. Black Assance. Oh, that's who the Jets are taking on. Yeah, God. I mean, Tara Taylor versus Hello 0 and 8.
Sure. Why not? It's about the Jets, too. Let's go to Colby in Georgia. We were just talking about a poor Jet fan.
It was a teenager saying he hates the Jets, but he was born into it. This is a giant fan. Colby, how old are you there in Georgia? I'm 14 years old.
Well, is there no school today in Georgia? Call me. I'm not saying I'm in school. Oh, you're in school right now? He can use his phone, unlike your son, Richard.
Right now? I I'm I'm not faith. Oh, would say the game? No, I'm not for you. School ended today.
Oh, okay. School's over. School's over. Okay, that's two o'clock. What's on your mind, Colby?
I wanted to say that Camp Scatterboard right now is really looking like You could be like a MVP compensation well no, no, sorry. I meant rookie of the year. Uh uh def definitely offensive. Like the way like his style of running like Are you a giant fan in Georgia? Fourteen years old, Colby?
Oh, no, sir. I'm a dolphin fan, but I can't talk about them right now. Oh. Did you see the video of that young man who's probably about 14 years old himself saying he hates the Jets, but he was born into it?
Okay. So you're a Dolphin fan who just now loves Scatterboo, is what you're saying. Oh, yeah.
Okay, very good. All right, so hold on a second. What about Quinchon Judkins being offensive rookie of the year? What about him? What about Jackson Dart?
What about him? I'm I mean I mean yeah Jack Mazari is already looking like he can Quinch on Junkins and Jack Jackson Dart, both are definitely in the conversation. I think it's going to be Cam Scott about. Kobe, who's that? I think it's Colin.
Whose voice am I hearing other than yours? Who is that? Who is that? That's my brother Riley. Riley, how old is Riley?
He's eleven. Oh, yeah.
Okay. I like it. Colby and Riley, coming here. I mean, you you guys should have your own podcast, Colby. What do you think?
And maybe Okay, Kobe, do you play football? Oh yeah sir.
Okay. Um I play Pointy back. Does this?
Okay. Listen, all I know is that if Scatterbu's a great guy to be a fan of, but if you're playing football, just see what you hit. That's all I'm asking.
Okay, keep your head up. Just keep your head up. Keep your head up. Yeah, bend at the you know, dip at the hips. Don't bend, is basically going to be a bit of a bad thing.
Don't lead within. Colby, say hi to your brother Riley for me, okay?
Okay. Okay, thank you. Call back. That was great. We're all back.
Okay, youth of America. Scataboo, again, the odds are really confusing me lately. Scataboo has the seventh best rookie of the year odds. He's behind Ashton Genty and Ted McMillan, who've done nothing. Jackson Dart is your favorite, even odds.
Listen, Genty is destroying my fantasy team.
Well, I know that, but he still has over 500 yards of offense that he's done. Um Three rushing touchdown games this season. Jonathan Taylor, week three of Tennessee. Jonathan Taylor, week five against Vegas. Cam Scataboo, week six against Philadelphia.
Quinchon Judkins, week seven against Miami. And then Jonathan Taylor, week seven at Los Angeles. Jonathan Taylor. That's it. That's your list.
844-204 rich is the number. What a delightful chat with Colby. And how about Riley in the background? Jonathan Taylor, offensive player of the year, favorite. There's no question about it.
Because as you know, that's the MVP award for non-quarterbacks. Right. As I've just christened it. The other running backs, four MVPs this century. uh were running backs.
Um last one was Adrian Peterson in a in twenty twelve, LaDanien Tomlinson in 06, Sean Alexander the year before, and Marshall Falk started off the de the uh century with one in two thousand. 844204 Rich Number to Dow. Hey, listen, wasn't pretty for the Seattle Seahawks. They're the first team to win a game with 10 or more penalties in a... Negative three or worse turnover margin.
And a sub-25 third-down conversion rate since at least 1991. And when you see a stat like that, that's because the researchers are like, we're done going further back. Since 1991, including the playoffs. Teams that had those dynamics. in a single game, we're 0-49.
Woo!
So it's not pretty for what the Seahawks did last night, but I'll tell you what's pretty: Jackson Smith and Jigma. Man. This guy is like the new 7-Eleven, right? Dude, always open, man. And eight receptions.
He does wear number 11, doesn't he? Sure does. And he scores seven points. Doesn't mean six.
Well, six, seven, right? One of those things. Isn't that what the kids do these days? Look at that. Look at seven.
Okay. I need that explained to me.
Okay. Eight receptions, 123 yards, and another touchdown. Fourth most receiving yards in a Monday night football game by a Seahawks player. Uh the others are named Largett, Rice and Metcalf. He's got five games now with 100 receiving yards this season.
That's the most in the NFL. Tied for second in a season in Seahawks history, one behind Steve Largent's sixth season, six, a 100-yard. game season in 1979. He's unbelievable. In the Super Bowl era, with 75 or more receiving yards in each of his first seven games of the season, Jackson Smith Njigba is the youngest ever to do it at age 23.
He and Sam Darnold have a connection. And Charbonnet is running it. Kenneth Walker can move it. And the defense can hit you. And they're five and two and everyone's sleeping on them.
Quite frankly. Everyone's sleeping on them. We may be one of them too. I mean, I just said they were the most complete team in the NCAA. No, I know you said that in overreaction Monday.
Do you really believe it? Do you really think they're the most complete team in the NFL? I think we're sleeping on them a little bit. Sam Darnold is throwing a little too many interceptions for my liking. to consider them as, you know, a possible Super Bowl team.
Right now. But they allowed fewer than 90 rush yards in each of the last six games. The issue is here is. Can we give Ken Walker the ball, too? I think they like giving it to both of them and they don't care.
They don't care about your fantasy team. I get it. They do not care about Kenneth Walker fantasy team owners. They just don't. Darnold's now 19 and 5 as a starter.
In the last Since 2004, the only ones better. Armahomes at 19 and 4 and Goff at 20. Goff at 20 and 4. He wins football games. The defense is lights.
Ow. And all they got to do is just get a couple of touchdowns. The question is: If if Is is in Jig, we're going to do it every game. Right. What if he, you know, has a has a hammy or a little niece brain one week, th then who?
Good question. I don't think I firmly believe that Cooper Cup is still that dude. Torre Horton's still a rookie. Yep. Bobo?
Let's not sleep on Bob. Bobo. The tight ends are nice. AJ Barner, AJ Barnes. Barroyo and Barner have been pretty nice.
I did go a little higher register on the tight ends. But they're rookies. They're five and two, man. And you are what you are. And they're on a bye week, and then they come out, they're at Washington on a Sunday night.
Who knows what they're going to look like? And then here, okay. The Rams, that's it. Rubber's going to beat the road. They finish up at San Francisco.
They started the season at home watching Brock Purdy beat them with Jake Tongas with pretty much at the final gun, you know? Um So You know, I think the Seahawks are a playoff team, the way that we're looking at it. Remember, they won 10 games last year and didn't make it. Right. So Defensively, they covered up for some offensive issues.
And I'll just tell you the Houston Texans. Um I don't know the way through here. I don't know the way through here. Because Um They're starting Woody Marks. Nick Chubb.
And Woody Marks are their running game as they keep on. Deactivating Damian Pierce, who went from a couple of years ago as the workhorse to they don't even dress him now. I don't know, Joe Mixon, they keep talking. I don't think he's returning. I don't know where he is, but boy, would it be helpful if they could just, because certainly when the defense that they have, you know, Will Anderson sacking.
Darnold in the end zone and then recovering it himself, their defense is really good. And if they are like They got a defensive-minded head coach, and they got a defense that can play. They need an attack where they can run it 25, 30 times. Woody Market. He's had a little bit of a juice, but they just don't give him the ball enough.
The line isn't good enough. The line isn't good enough, maybe. Nico Collins was dropping balls last night. It doesn't help that Christian Kirk Can't stay healthy. And Tank Dell.
Still, I mean, one of the craziest things is to put somebody who's basically like five foot nothing and weighs 100 pounds soaking wet. on a goal line play where he breaks his That was two years ago. That was two years ago. And the one shot caught a touchdown in Kansas City. Didn't he score on that play?
Yeah, and it was dreadful what happened. Correct. Outside of scoring. Yeah, right. Yeah.
100%. CJ Stroud is Um in need of some protection up front. It definitely seems to be affecting his game. Nico Collins got concussed last night. They got the Niners coming in next week.
And the Colts are way ahead of the game. As they enter week eight, this is a team coming off of a buy. And they looked like that last night. And you could sit here and say Seattle's a tough place to play. Understand, that's more long history.
This year, the Seahawks have already lost there twice. San Francisco in division, the Bucs in conference. Texans coming off of a bye week should be healthy and going up there and feeling good about themselves. And they just don't on offense, they just don't have it. They do not have it.
right now and I don't know where they're going to get it. I wonder, Tyler Lockett is getting released this week. Would you be all over him if you're the Houston Texans? I think you have to keep all possibilities open. Don't you think?
Like some cam out there.
Somebody. Yeah, 'cause they're running out a couple of rookies. You know, after Nico and Kirk.
So. Right. They don't, like, they haven't. I know they got that kid Higgins. Like, let's, he was totally different than like Tez Johnson, but Tez Johnson's doing things that the Texans could use.
They don't have it. Yeah, Schultz is kind of their number two pass catcher, right? My word, he was number one last night. On a call sheet.
So, if I'm the Texans, I am genuinely concerned because the run game's not there, the protection's not there for Stroud, who looks different. Again. But last year he did in the regular season, and they wound up being in the final four of the AFC anyway. But I don't know about this year about even making the playoffs at all because they are just not, you know. If they make the playoffs, it'll be as a wild card.
And if they do that, maybe. It'll be the first time on wild card weekend. They're not the first game. That's true. Come on, Rich.
You know better. Yeah, I don't know. I returned. Maybe the Texans will get a pride time yet. Maybe the Colts will give the ALs.
Are we penciling in the Colts right now for Saturday? No, no, first off. Saturday, first off. I don't think so. It depends on who they might face.
It feels like we're penciling them in. What if it's Colts Patriots? They're not going to stick you guys in an early window. What if it's Colts Bills? Woof.
How am I throwing it out there, meaning the Patriots win the division? I'm just putting the red meat out there for you. Oh, yeah.
What if the Colts have the bye? They're not playing where first Saturday. They could have got the buy. No, it'll be the first time where the buy team has to play Saturday Wildcard weekend. The Colts, you have to play Saturday.
New rules. AFC South must have the first Saturday. The AFC South has the number one overall seed in the AFC. It does not compute. You see smoke coming out of the ears of everybody in the front office of the NFL.
Like, what is this all about? It's possible. Um George Kittle was a guest on No Contest Wrestling. Sir, this was an O'Shea Jackson Jr. booking, was it?
Well, no, it was he and I, we were sitting around talking about, like, you know, just you and Kittle? No, O'Shea and I.
Okay. Talking a couple weeks ago about just like getting more views and how we can expand the pod. And, you know, I'm like, well, obviously, like. Our football videos do the best here on this show.
So I'm like, we need to kind of dip our toe into there, into that. And both of us at the same time are like, all right, George Kittle, he's. And Shay was like, I think I can get his number.
So he worked on getting his number. He hit him up a couple times. By the way, you know, I have Kittle's number too. I get it. You know, just reach out to me since, you know, I mean.
I'm part of the process and I actually put my thumb on the scale. Prior to the taping. Sending you guys a You know, a text to say, ask him some football questions, please. Oh, while we got the muscles. Yes.
You know? Respectfully, and I appreciate it, but you we were. I didn't have to do that, is what you're saying? No, okay, very good. DJ's time.
Actually, perfect time to throw the sound bite because I did say, hey, you know, ask him some football questions as well. Of course. Because, I mean, the wrestling world already picks up what you guys talk about. Right. And I just knew that if you ask him a football question, then hey, maybe that gets picked up and it says on no contest wrestling.
I like the way you think. That's the way I think.
So I just You know, I just didn't think O'Shea would just walk in through the front door the way I think. I mean, I think maybe you should have known better.
Okay. Roll it.
Now our dude Rich Isa wants me to ask you about your quarterback. Which one? We have two right now. I need he wants to know about Purdy, man. How's everything looking with him?
How's he doing? How I understand it is just like with the turst toe stuff, right? It's basically like if you trigger it at all before it's like healed, I think it's like a square, like you just back up in the recovery process.
So. My thing, and I just tell Brock, like, just get to where you feel fantastic and then play football again. Bike. We know what Brock can do. We're excited to see Brock Purdy play football.
I just don't want him to come back too soon. And then it goes and the same thing happens like when he played against Jacksonville, and then he's out for a couple more weeks. Because Brock's a phenomenal football player that is the best orchestrator of this offense that I've ever seen. uh what Kyle Shannon has done. He's just so efficient at it.
And so I just want him to be at his, at 100% before he tries to take the field again. And I think he's aware of that. And I think he's going to do good. I think he's going to do a good job with his recovery. And he'll come back when he feels like he's ready.
Tell us about how Mac Jones is out there, man. He's holding the fort down. My favorite thing about Mac Jones is that he has the personality of a tight end. Like he is, oh, he's goofy. He likes to have a good time, he's friends with every single position.
He could talk to anybody. And then, like, you see him in walkthroughs, he's kind of goofy. And then, the second he gets to practice for a game rep, everything is just so locked in and dialed. He brings good joy, brings good vibes to the huddle. And then like, like I said, when we're out there, like this is my first time playing with Mac Jones.
Like he still has fun, but he's just so dialed and he's so calm. Like he just calls the play, goes, Yeah, yeah, go do that. I'm like, that's sick.
Sounds good. I'll see you after the play in the huddle again. He's just so calm and cool.
So it's been very nice to. Uh being huddled with that. Awesome. Great. He's got two quarterbacks.
Did you pick up on that? See, you want to keep on pounding this table. I think there's some real conversation. There isn't. There isn't.
Brock Purdy's healthy. He's the starting quarterback of this team. You already just heard him. He said he's the greatest orchestrator of this offense he's ever seen. And he's been in this offense for almost 10 years, right?
And we also talked, you know, we talked a lot about his injury. We talked about McCaffrey. We had a big discussion about Turf Toe.
Okay. With George, he he told us what God's favorite play was according to a play that McCaffrey ran. You know, we got a lot of good stuff. And then halfway through, he realized he was talking to a Rams fan and a Cowboys fan. He wanted to end the interview, but he stayed professional and rolling around.
And all of his wrestling takes were as entertaining as you would hoped? Absolutely. It was George. Yeah. You know, I put on Twitter a little bit ago, I'm like, I can't believe after Dwight Clark.
Ruined my childhood that I actually like a Niners tight end. He's as great as they come. Yeah, he's everything you'd want him to be. Super cool guy. He, O'Shea, and I, we made a pact between the three of us.
Is?
Well, WrestleMania next year.
Well, the year after next is going to be in Saudi Arabia.
So I just made a suggestion that, like, if one of us is able to go, then we all should make a pact that we go together.
So we're kind of hoping somebody invites. 2027? Yeah, we're kind of hoping somebody invites George.
So we all three. I don't know, man. I mean, keep going, no contest wrestling. You're going to, well, I mean,. If that's a PLE on ESPN, maybe you'll be broadcasting from Riyadh or whatever it is.
From your lips, the gods are. Hey, man, you did a great job before WrestlePalooza. Yeah. Let's go. I still can't believe I'm sitting at an ESPN desk.
I was tripped out. These are all dreams that are reality, sir. Yeah, true that. You keep it up. See, from now on, I'm not going to give you any suggestions or just let you go.
Stop it. I'm sorry. I can't turn it off, TJ. I'm just making sure everybody's successful. We appreciate it.
Oh, do you really? I see. Do you? Do you? Thank you.
That's something about us, though. It's about us. I forgot about that. Thanks, Bruss. ESPNRAN is presented by Progressive Insurance.
Keep your career moving forward with growth opportunities, great pay and benefits, and one of the country's top workplaces. Go to careers.progressive.com. Yeah. today. A new book on the life and times of Tupac Shakur by one of our favorites, Jeff Perlman.
We'll talk about the Cowboys and the Lakers and more with him since he's written terrific books about them coming up. The Rich Eisen Show Podcast. As many of you know, supporting pediatric cancer research is something I care deeply about. That's why I'm proud to share what Hyundai is doing through Hyundai Hope on Wheels. For over 27 years, with every Hyundai sold, they've helped fund pediatric cancer research.
Alongside over 850 dealers, they've raised more than $277 million, helping over 25,000 kids and supporting more than 1,400 research grants at 175 institutions nationwide. This year alone, they've committed another $27 million in honor of the 27th anniversary of the program. And they're proud to have national youth ambassadors like Jackson Trin and Emmy Cole. who bring hope to kids across the country by sharing their stories. Because at Hyundai, hope is our greatest feature.
And it comes standard. Visit HyundaiUSA.com and search Hyundai Hope on Wheels to learn more. My radio audience is back here on ESPN Radio presented by Progressive Insurance. Only God can judge me the many lives of Tupac Shakur. From a man who's brought you books on multiple dynasties of the Los Angeles Lakers and the Dallas Cowboys, and also the life and myth of Bo Jackson called The Last Folk Hero.
The author Jeff Perlman is back here on the program. Why this book. Why did you choose Tupac Shakur as your latest subject? For your writing?
Well, you know, all my books have been sports. My career has been sports. Correct. I've always been fascinated by Tupac. And for years, I was waiting for someone to write the Tupac book I wanted to read.
I mean, literally for years. And I acknowledge I'm a very unusual person to write a Tupac book. I'm a sports writer. I'm a white guy from rural New York. Like, it's not who you would think would write a Tupac book.
But I just kept waiting and waiting and waiting. And I always thought, like, write the book that you want to read, right? Write the book that you want to read. And I just, if I dive in and I interview 600 people and I retrace his steps, maybe that's the Tupac book I would want to read.
So I just figured I'd like to break from sports, do something different. Yes. Why not Tupac? What were you curious about that you wanted to learn about the most? Was it his manner of death, or was it his life, his upbringing?
Like, what was it? I feel like what most people know about Tupac are the base level things. All right, thug life. Uh I get around, you know, uh death row. I just saw it knowing that his mom had been a Black Panther, a Fenny Shakur, knowing that he was raised with the ethos of a Black Panther.
Not really knowing the depths of his poverty, but knowing he went through something. Yes. I just really wanted to dive in and see what it was. And one of the best things about this job. Sure, you feel this way too.
Like, we get to sit. And ask people questions that most people wouldn't ask. I can sit. He lived in Marin City. There were a lot during the crack.
epidemic of of in America. And I was able to go to Marin City and literally sit in a car. with the mean crack to dealer from Marin City back in that time. and say, I don't know your world. I'm from Rural, New York.
My dad, Stanley, was an accountant. I knew I was going to college. But no one has ever been more fascinated to know what you went through and what it was like to deal crack in Marin City back in the 90s. I just love that stuff. I do.
I love that stuff so much.
Well, I mean, did you encounter some people who didn't want to talk to you? Sure. Like who? I mean, um, I didn't get. Dr.
Dre or Snoop Dogg, but they're kind of hard to get anyway. I did find most people, the vast majority, classmates. People who worked with him in music, even death row employees, were pretty open about talking. And I had two things going for me actually. Number one, Winning time.
Gave me some cred. where I would just say, you know, I wrote this book that became, oh, Winning Time, I love Winning Time. On HBO. Yeah, and that helped a lot. It did.
Number two, I had a breakthrough very early on. I think you probably read it if you read it. Um, where there's a song he wrote called Brenda's Got a Baby. Oh, tell this story, please. Yeah.
Um, The song Brenda's Got a Baby came out for his first album, Tupacalyps Now. And Tupac before that came out was working on the movie Juice. And he's in New York filming deuce. And one day, every day at his trailer, he gets a New York Daily News. He was read reading the newspapers.
His mom would read him the newspapers as a kid, quiz him on it. And there's an article called Cries in the Night. And it's about a 12-year-old girl. In the Nobel Druel Lee Public Housing in Brooklyn. who was raped by a cousin, Didn't tell anyone.
Deliver the baby on the bathroom floor. Wrap the baby in an odd lot plastic bag. opened the trash chute, threw the baby down the trash chute. Just getting rid of the baby. It's the day the trash compactor is supposed to go off.
And someone downstairs hears the baby crying. And I interviewed the guy who found the baby and he remembered about seeing the baby and the baby had a little blood on him.
So This the baby's taken to hospital. There's an article in the Daily News about it. Tupac reads it. He says to Omar Apps, his co-star, I'm just going to go write something. And he writes a song inspired by Brenda's Got a Baby.
Brenda's Got a Baby. Brenda's Barely Got a Brain. A damn shame. The girl can hardly spout her name. It's great, great writing for a young rapper.
And I was always, I actually, Tupac had a... An associate manager, a confidant named Layla Steinberg, who I interviewed for this book. And Layla said to me early on: I've always been wondering what happened to the baby, if that was even real.
So I work with a genealogist named Michelle Suley, who's an amazing genealogist. And I said to her, it would be amazing if we could find. The Baby from Brenda's Got a Baby. And she said, give me a couple days. And one day she gives me a number and she goes, I think this is him.
And she gave me a name, Davon Hodge. And I text his number because nobody answers phones anymore. And it was the crudest. out of nowhere text ever. Hey, my name's Jeff Perlman.
I'm a longtime writer. I'm working on a Tupac book. I attach the article and I say, by any chance, are you the baby in this article? And he writes back. Holy crap.
Let me call you tomorrow. Two days later, I'm in Las Vegas at Starbucks singing with Dayvon Hodge. Basically, a couple years ago, he was adopted after this happened. His parents moved to Las Vegas. He was raised much of his life in Vegas.
His adoptive parents died a few years ago. He does an ancestry.com search. All these names come back. Noble Jura Lee Public Housing, Brooklyn, New York. He reaches out to them.
They're like, holy crap. Holy crap, we've been looking for you for years. He goes there. He has this beautiful reunion. People are hugging him.
There's food. All these relatives he never knew. And they say, do you like Tupac? He's a guy, love Tupac. Like, do you know the song Brenda's Got a Baby?
Of course. We think that's you.
So he has this moment where he's like, this holy crap moment. But he hasn't seen his mom since he was wee little because she threw him down in the trash heap and vanished. I said to Michelle Suley, the genealogist of the gods, can we find the mom? Give me a few days. She has a number and she reaches out to this woman, and she's texting back and forth basically, and then she calls her.
And she said, I'm working with this writer, Jeff Perlman, about a book about Tupac. Did you have a baby when you were 12 who you threw. She starts screaming. Do you know where my baby is? Do you have any idea?
Oh my God, I've been looking for my baby for decades. Do you know where she's crying and screaming? And Michelle says, yeah, we're in touch with him. She goes, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. I need to get home.
I need to get home. I live in Newark, New Jersey. I need to get home. Well, where are you? I'm at a red hot chili peppers concert.
Oh, where's the concert? It's in Las Vegas. And they meet that night. And reunite. Yeah.
And this is the story, by the way, in the introduction of the book. This is not in the. body of the book. It's the way the book starts. And it is amazing.
And you've put them together. You've found them both and put them together. And if Tupac had never really read in the New York Daily News about it and said, you know what? I'm going to go write something, and he's so brilliant that he's able to just step away from the set. Yep.
And just tell all my apps, hold on a second. If he didn't do that, these people would never have met. And you you were the one who put them back together. Unbelievable. It all comes back to a sports writer.
You never know, right? I mean, Only God Can Judge Me by Jeff Proman. You got to read it. What did you learn about Tupac that you didn't know?
So many things. I'll tell you one thing that really blew my mind.
So we went to the Baltimore School of Performing Arts with Jada Pinkett, with Josh Charles, like multiple people in his class. And he was there for two years, and it was a game-changing, life-changing experience for him. Tubac was a kid who grew up in abject poverty. In Baltimore, he lived in a row house in the east side of the city with No heat, no air conditioning, rats running up and down the baseboards. His sister set.
sat down with me and just talked about the poverty, the poverty, the pain, the torture, the trauma. Chewbacca would go to the school. And someone said, You know we had a girlfriend named Mary. And I was like, I would love to talk to Mary. Like, well, Mary doesn't talk.
And I was like, well, I'm gonna I have to try and I got a number for this woman. Her name is Mary. And I reached out to her and I actually told her the Brenda story.
So the Brenda story became a gateway for a lot of people because sometimes you need to show that you're serious. Right. And you also respect this man's life and his work. Right. And get deep into The story in a respectful way.
Right. You're not just some guy coming along today. Right. Right. And.
So I reached out to her and she was amazing and she talked to me and she said, No. Um she lives in Nebraska. She moved from Baltimore to Nebraska. She goes My mom recently found about a hundred letters that Tupac wrote to me when we were in high school under the bed in a folder. If you come out to Nebraska, you can go through the letters.
I'm like, I will be there tomorrow. ASAP. Fly out to Nebraska. Mm-hmm. We meet at a bagel place, a coffee shop in Nebraska.
My advice to you, Rich, as a fellow Northeastern Jew, never get a bagel in Nebraska. It just doesn't play well. It did not play well. It's a role? They microwave the bagel.
It's just opens this folder, and it's these letters from Tupac. 15, 16 years old. Beautiful, beautiful letters. Of course they are. He's horny.
He's sad. He's heartbroken. He hates his mom. He loves his mom. He's going to be homeless tomorrow.
He's leaving home. He just wants to kill himself. He loves who he is. He wants to marry Mary. I just love you, Mary.
All over the map. all over the map, but all of them beautifully and meticulously written. And he made her like a playlist one time and he wrote the songs on the playlist and there was Everything but the girl. Randy Travis, like Kate Bush, he loved Kate Bush and Peter Gabriel, the song Don't Give Up. You wouldn't think, like, I think some people wouldn't think, oh, the Tupac Security, Kate Bush.
He was so informed on music. He could tell you Barry Manelu's greatest hits. In fact, when he died, he was in the movie Gang Related, and he wanted to do the soundtrack, and his whole dream goal was to mash up. His music with Frank Sinatra. And during Gang Related, he was listening to Frank Sinatra on an endless loop in his trailer.
You could. walk by his trailer and you'd hear him singing like Fly Me to the Moon in New York, New York. Yeah. Uh I mean, we're robbed of that, obviously. Did you learn anything about his you know, his death?
Yeah, I mean, so he died. It's interesting. He died in Vegas, and he was there for the Bruce Selden-Mike Tyson fight. Mm-hmm. A very, very bad fight.
Like a really bad fight. Super quick. To a couple of things. He drove there from LA. And on the way, he stopped at the the In-N-Out in Barstow.
I've been there. Who hasn't? Who among us have not been to the In-N Out of Marshall? I think it's the third largest In-N-Out. It's enormous.
Mm-hmm. And while he's there, this is super weird. The Long Beach Poly football team is returning from a game on bus from Las Vegas to LA. He must have known a lot of these kids. He didn't, actually.
He didn't. They all came up, so they see Tupac out the window, and a bunch of the kids are like, holy crap, that's Pac, that's Tupac, that's Pac. And they come up behind him. And he's surrounded by a bunch of death row guys. Shugnai was actually with him.
And he turns around. In a defensive posture because he doesn't know who's coming up on him. And he gives these guys a lecture. He's basically like, yo. Young geez, you can't just come up on me like that and scared the crap out of Tupac and the Long Beach Poly guys.
So he's there, so that's his first meeting. He gets to Vegas. The Mike Tyson-Bruce Selden fight was supposed to be several months earlier, but Don King faked a reason because Mike Tyson wasn't prepared for the fight.
So, had it been what it was supposed to be, none of this would have ever happened. He gets there. He goes to the MD on Grant. He wrote the entrance song that Mike Tyson walked into. It was a song specifically for Mike Tyson to enter the ring.
He loved Mike Tyson. He had visited Mike Tyson when Mike Tyson was in prison in Indiana. Mike Tyson wrote him letters when he was in prison. In Clinton and upstate New York. The um A fight happens, they're in the MGM grant afterwards, and he is with a fellow death row affiliated guy named Trayvon Lane.
And Trayvon Lane is Mob Pyru affiliated, which is bloods. I've learned way more about gangs in LA than you would know. Mm-hmm. And um There's a guy named Orlando Anderson who is affiliated with the Compton Crips. And he's out the fight.
And a couple, not that long beforehand, Orlando Anderson was had ripped off the chain of Trayvon Lane when they were in a footlocker in a mall. and Tubac is standing next to Trayvon, and he sees this guy, Orlando Anderson. And Trayvon Lane says, That's the guy. That's the guy who stole my... stole my my medallion.
He had a death warm medallion that I was yanked off. TrueBox says, which guy? It's the guy, that guy, and he was wearing a weirdly like a triple XL Dan Marino jersey. Orlando Anderson. And Trubak walks up to him and says, Yo, you from the south, which is south sidecomp to Crypts?
And he punches him. And all these guys from Death Row pounce on Orlando Anderson and they beat the crap out of Orlando Anderson and they take off. And there are all these conspiracy theories, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But to me, what it comes down to and what Almost everyone I talk to comes down to is this guy, Orlando Anderson. Just got his ass kicked by a rapper.
In fact, I talked to Orlando as Anderson's closest friend for the time. And he's like, the shame, you could not go back to Compton. Getting your ass kicked by a rapper. you know, like by a rapper. And I'm not saying Tubac wasn't tough and I'm not saying he wasn't.
He was a warrior. But he wasn't a gangbanger. And it was embarrassing and humiliating.
So later on that night, Tupac and Suge, they go to Suge's club. It was called 662. And then they're driving along the strip. And Orlando Anderson, his uncle Keefe D, two other guys, all Compton crypt-affiliated, are just driving around looking for Tupac. thinking they're not gonna find him, and they see him leaning out.
of Should Knight's BMW hollering at women. Yo, that's Puck. Where? Right there! And they um They pull up on them.
And Orlando Anderson shoots him. And I'm sure. Drives away, and I found the cop. No cops liked working Tyson fights because you had a huge gang element that would come from LA for Tyson fights. It was a draw.
and I found the cop who first got to Tupac. And he was on a bike.
So imagine being on a bike. up to like Sugnight and a bunch of death row. There are four death row vehicles. The car pulls up. And he told me, he remembered this vividly.
He said, gets to the car, and Tupac kind of, the door opens, and Tupac has been shot, and he kind of slumps out of the car. And the cop walks up to him and he goes, Are you okay? Are you okay? And he said, and he swore. Tupac looks at him and says, F you.
And that was his last words, and as his eyes closed. And he was taken to the hospital and he died. week later. You're something else, man. You're dogged.
You're a great storyteller and writer, and only God can judge me. The many lives of Tupac Shakur is available today, wherever you get all your books. You should get it. Unbelievable. Anything, that's why I say anything you write about I'm into, man.
I'm into. Thank you. You bet. And I got a couple minutes left here. The one thing you wish you had video of of Bo Jackson that you learned that he did.
Oh, 41340. The 41340, the mythical 41340. Or when he was with the Raiders, and Tom Flores said. Set up so you run a 40 on like his first day and he runs a 417 No, he runs a 419 and they retape it because they don't think it's right. And he runs a 417.
So I was told that story a million times, but can you like. Kind of guarantee, guarantee, guarantee? No, because there's no footage of it.
So you just report it. That's unbelievable. If you wanted to run a 400%, what about a baseball story that you wish you had footage of? Oh, he uh. He's playing in College And he hit a ball so high Yes.
That he went from first to third and was rounding third by the time he came down. And I didn't believe it. And I interviewed the outfielder. Yes. And he's like, no, seriously.
I look up, I pick up the ball. I look up, and he's rounding third. And going for home. Because the ball had so much hang time on it.
So much hang time on it, and he had so much speed and power and everything.
Well Jackson was the Tupac of baseball and football. Unbelievable. Yeah, it's crazy. You are the man, Jeff Proman. Thank you for coming on here.
Everybody, again, get this book. And I appreciate you also helping pilot a new podcast we're doing around here. Two Jewish men talking about rap stars in their 50s. Let's do it. Let's do it.
Let's do it. You're fantastic. He's so good. It's with Madas Yahoo when we need him, right? Madis Yahoo!
Madas Yahoo! Oh my god.
Well, you eat bagels. You eat bagels from Nebraska, Nebraska, and talk about rappers. Two Jewish guys in their 50s talking about rappers. Why are we eating MicroA bagels from Nebraska? From Nebraska.
Lock it in. I think the number of downloads, I'm already hearing the cast registers. Only God can judge me. The many lives of Tupac Chikur available wherever you get your books. We just barely scratch the surface in this chat.
Jeff Perlman here on The Rich Island Show will be back to wrap it up, talking about the World Series matchup when we come back. The Rich Heisen Show, the podcast. We all love a legendary comeback, and Degree Original Cool Rush is back and better than ever. Cool Rush isn't just a scent, it's a movement, a fan favorite that delivers bold, fresh vibes and all-day sweat protection. Whether you have a man that spends hours in the gym, heads into the office early, or is just trying to stay fresh on a long day, Cool Rush has their back.
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At Hyundai Hope. isn't optional, it comes standard. That's great stuff there with Jeff Perlman. Awesome. Yeah.
We were talking, there's no telling. What Tupac could have been had it.
Well, how many? Was it Omar Eps who said he would have been a great actor? Who came on here and said that? There was. If he was a great actor.
Well, but no, no, no. But if that's all he wanted to do. Oh, yeah.
He'd have been great at that. I forget who it was.
Somebody told us that. That was great stuff. That's complex. Everybody's got to get the book that we just talked about with Jeff Promote. Before we go, I do want to talk about the fact there was a Game 7 last night as well.
I'm sending my best to all the Seattle Mariner fans out there who had their heartbroken last night. There was at one point during the game, did you see the ESPN cameras were catching people watching the game on? on their phones. And they did a solid to that Mariner fan who was holding up. The iPad that he had with Julio Rodriguez at the plate as the last hope for the Mariners, and he was hoping against hope.
He was just behind what we had already known, which was. a final strikeout. And had they they did him a solid by cutting off of him for him 'cause He was almost on live TV learning that the Mariner season was over. And it looked great for them, too. I mean, both Rodriguez and.
Cal Raleigh Homer. Yep, that's what you're looking for. You're looking for the stars coming through in a game seven. No doubt. George Kirby pitched very well after, you know, having a shaky first.
And it was there for the taking. But the Blue Jays did what they do best. Which is put the ball in play. They do not strike out. As a matter of fact, they strike you out with all these split fingers.
And And they put the ball in play. And they hit For average, and then come up with the big blast. I swear to you, I'm not just saying this because it happened. You called it? Yeah.
I turned to Cooper when it was second and third with one out and Springer's at the plate. I said to him, Do you think they should walk him? Because he is unbelievable in this situation, and there's an open base, and now you're bringing in. You know, to play that there's an out at any base. Obviously, it becomes tougher when you don't have a place to put anybody.
Bizardo comes in and throws a fastball, grooves one. And if you look it back, if you look it back, Raleigh wanted it high in the zone, and it went right down Broadway. And Springer hits the ninth career go-ahead. Postseason home run. of his tying or go-ahead postseason home run of his career.
He is truly As clutch as they come. And the three-run jack is all she wrote. That's what they do. And the Blue Jays are in the World Series for the first time in 32 years, and the team that they are taking on. No.
are the defending World Series champs. Interestingly enough, if you remember, Before Shohei Otani took the retirement deal, With the Dodgers. If you remember, for a hot minute, his plane was seen in Toronto, and it turned out to be what, one of the folks from Shark Tank, Robert Herkovich? Was that who was playing? I think, yeah, I remember.
A lot of people thought Shoey was going to sign with the Blue Jays. I prayed inside with the Mets, but they were in on it. Praise. But. Obviously, he goes to the Dodgers.
And now here come the Dodgers to Rodgers Center to start it all off on Friday night. And it's going to be a team with tons of stars. Against a team with a handful of stars, but some. Players who just do not strike out, they put the ball in play and they feel it. And Bobachette's coming back.
They just did this without Bobachette. And Vladi's on a heater. He is on a heater. He is on a heater, and you could feel it. In that building, he's plugged into them.
They're plugged into him. Like, Back in the day, Marshawn Lynch in Seattle and J.J. Watt in Houston. Sure. He gets a hit, the whole place just starts getting revved up.
It's going to be a terrific World Series. Are we rooting for the Blue Jays? I think most of America is outside of Los Angeles. I'm not. I'm not.
You're not? Rooting for the Dodgers? Yeah. That was my grandpa's team. Maybe it's just all about money, like Soto for you.
Got it. Thanks for listening to the Rich Eisen Show Podcast. You can watch and listen to the Rich Eisen Show live weekdays from noon to 3 Eastern on ESPN Radio, Disney Plus, and on the ESPN app. The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast.
