Thanks for tuning in to the Jim Jackson show. Make sure you follow us on all our socials. You know, chemistry is everything. On the court, you see it with teams like the Nuggets. Five guys are moving as one.
Yoke is dropping dimes. It's a thing of beauty. But there's another kind of chemistry. The chemistry between a comedian and an audience. It's electric, but it's unpredictable.
and it takes a master to control it. My guest today is one of those masters. From writing for legends to becoming a legend himself, he's seen it all and he's turned it all into pure comedy gold. Coming to you. From the great city of Chicago, of course, right time in the house, to my building, to this building.
My man Deion Cole. What's up, brother? Oh, man, this is great. Thank you. No, come on, man.
We've been talking about this for a minute, man. Oh, wow, right, Jay? But you've been out there shooting them old Spice commercials, so I couldn't tie you down, man. You know, making that old spice. Got to get it going.
Shout out to Old Spice. Old Spice, man. Hey, man. Listen, man, I played in the league 14 years and. It's a certain work ethic.
You know sports. What you do behind the scenes, people don't know about. You know, you see it kind of matriculate. And form while you're on the court. But you have a philosophy to work hard, but you want to be original, authentic, and don't repeat or replicate jokes.
Where does that come from? Did somebody teach you that? Or did you just kind of learn that on your own? Yeah, I mean, from the greats, man, just coming up. That's what it always was about.
It was always about being original, being different. You know, um breaking making your own way, you know and By it being that way, it it led for a lot more people to. Be number one, if that makes sense. It was a lot more number ones when everybody was original. Right.
Now, what's original? Like, what does that mean? That means like no one can be like you. You know what I mean? It was, you and you're in a lane of your own.
You know what I mean? Like, you have Dick Gregory and Richard Pryor and Rare Fox and Moms Mabley, and everybody was number one. Everybody was doing their thing because they were all. Unique and different in their own way. You know what I mean?
And so everybody can get it. That's the same thing. With acting or music. I remember back in the 80s, everybody had their own style. Or early 90s, everybody's own style.
So it was a bunch of number ones. You know what I mean? Because everybody liked this for this reason, like this for this reason, like this. But then when everybody started sounding alike and doing the same things or whatever, then it was only a number one. It was.
Just number one, it was like, that's it. Like, because it was the best out of the same. If that makes sense. Yeah, the best out of the saying rises to number one when it should be several. Number ones.
You know, or close to number ones. I get that because, like, in basketball, in sports, they always talk about that sports, like, teams, is a copycat league. Everybody wanted to play like Golden State. Everybody wanted to play like the Lakers, but you couldn't. The beauty about the game is if you have.
Like a team like Golden State that plays one way, Milwaukee plays another way. They won it, Denver plays a different way, Boston and LKC.
Now you got variety, you got something you can choose from, and everything is just not cookie cutter. And you were talking about the legends, which I thought was interesting because you were on BET talking about Kaisinette and not knowing. about the legend, about not understanding. Very similar in the NBA and sports when the young guys come in, and I got love for them. Yeah.
But a lot of them kind of don't know the history of it. And I know that's very important to you. Not just about your career, but the history of those who came before it.
So, why is that important? It's very important because, I mean, and I don't want to keep sounding like myself, get off my lawn. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to be that guy because I like all these young people that's. Breaking ceilings and doing what they're doing.
You're like, I like everybody, all the great streamers, everybody. I love everybody. You know what I mean? But corrective criticism ain't hate. You know what I mean?
It's like you can't give nobody corrective criticism without them considering it. hate and it's like that ain't that ain't that ain't hate that's Corrective criticism. I'm not saying I hate you or nothing. I actually love everything that you do. Like, I think it's dope.
But if I'm going, hey, there's people who have 50, 60 year careers. And put all their blood, sweat, and tears in order for you to pave the way that you pave in. Is I just think that you know, acknowledgement is good. Not saying that. They don't.
I'm just saying it's just You know. In certain situations, because you ain't got to know nobody. You know what I'm saying? And that's where, but I just feel as though that in certain situations, you should know people and give them, you know, love and admiration for what they've done. You know what I mean?
Because it keeps going. Because a lot of this younger generation, they don't even want to. Pass the history alone. History is fading. Don't nobody even talk about history too much if you really think about it.
You know what I mean? So we just got to preserve all our OGs, wrap them up in bubble wrap. You know what I mean? I talk about Stevie Wonder all the time, but Stevie's a legend. You know, we got to wrap him in bubble wrap.
You know what I mean? We ain't got a lot of these musicians left. You know, shout out to Robert Glasper. That's that's that's doing it. That's always pays homage.
Ain't no homesomy. Man, he always pays homage. He's he's great. He's the musician. He, you know, he goes by the book and he's and he's relevant.
Then, more than ever, now more than ever. You know what I mean? So it's just paying homage to people. It don't take long to do that. You know what I mean?
So, by me saying that, it don't. It doesn't mean hate, I hate you, or nothing like that. I actually love you, I love everybody, you know what I mean?
So, I just want to try to. Give them a good guidance as an OG.
So let me ask you this. And you know this: the message could be correct, but sometimes people look at the messengers or how it was said. You think that had anything to do with it? Yeah, absolutely. Like, I definitely think that they feel like it has something to do with or whatever, but it doesn't.
It's a simple gesture.
Sometimes ordering a salad with nothing on it is difficult to some people. Go order a season salad and tell them I just want salad. They're going to be like, what? Yeah. You don't want no cheese?
You don't want no crouches? They're going to be like, huh? They're going to look at you like you're wrong. Or that you, or they're going to be like, it's not a seasoned salad. Be like, well, yeah, it is.
That's the only salad you got.
So give me the season, but I don't want no cheese or crouches. They might look at you weird for ordering it like that, but still in all, it's simplified to how you want it. You know what I mean? And that's how this is to me. It's like, it's simple.
Mathematics is just like, man, if you're in a situation where somebody, you know, Hire you to show love to people, then show love to everybody. You know what I mean? And so it was, it was no harm or nothing. And there was a bunch of, it was a bunch of what was the backlash you got from that? Oh, die.
I had so many YNs hit me. Yeah, they've been in my DMs going.
Okay, give me an example. Give me an example. Don't nobody want to know your old ass. They always go to the old ass, right? And whenever you say something, they always go.
Don't nobody want to know your old ass or whatever. And I was like, really? How you saying? Did we used to do that? Yeah.
Think about it. Think about it. Come on. Maybe looking at where we're at now, but go back to when we were younger and the old head was trying to tell us something. Yo, yo, you using knucklehead like all the time.
And did they get it passed, though? No, I just said, I said, I love them all. Like, I just gave corrective criticism. To take it or you don't. That's it.
But I give them all the pass. I love them all. I love all of them dudes, man. I'm not that good off my line, dude. It's just correct the criticism.
So, yeah, I get it. Everything going cycles. I was a knucklehead when I was younger. And you'll learn as you get older. You know what I mean?
But yeah, it was so many YNs in my DN, my DM song. I was like this, y'all. You know what? Almost started. I was about to be like, do you young YNs, do you YNs really want it with us old heads?
Do y'all want to fight? Do you know how many old heads I call up on? We can meet in the parking lot. You'd be the young young YNs against the OGs. Let's go.
But no, but it's all love. It's all love. But I you know, it's it's interesting. The more technology we've gotten, more information we gotta see as we got further away from Like you said, history, right? Yeah, and I don't know.
How do we How do you preserve it? Like in sports, because you have the Hall of Fame and you have different classics, but. Young, and I can't fault the young player. Um All the way because they only know what's in front of them. Exactly.
You know how they play. The big thing is, we shoot too many threes and not this. I'm like, well, listen, you got to understand that's how they've been taught to play since they've been young. They don't know about the 80s and 90s and really know how to.
So I can't expect them to one, play like that, two, and understand it because. What they see and how they play every day is not that. But I would like them to understand and respect and know the history and why. These multi-million dollar contracts, you get? Is because a lot of people sacrificed before you.
Yeah, and it'd be great for them to pay homage to them as well, right? I mean, because I mean, the work that you all put in, the files, the broken ankles, all the physicals that you abuse that you went through to make it more comfortable for them. You know what I mean? It's like, and then the players before you came before you. You know, I just be wanting people to understand that, you know.
we ain't we ain't in our 50s for no reason just just just know that just know that where i am or where you are is where they want to be you want to be there you want to be you want you want longevity you want longevity you want to be where we at it's not just a young thing you want to you want to listen you want to listen to you know what we went through and what we did in order for you to not go through that you know what i mean and so but but again they ain't gonna really listen like that you know what i mean you know what's interesting it's something because i tell a young sometimes not all when i came in the league we were still flying commercial they've commercial flights that means if you had a back-to-back bro you get up You go take the first flight out. take your bag, put it on the bus, wait for it.
Okay, when you get into the city, right by the conveyor belt, carry it, and then probably go to shoot around. Dang. And but and the players before us, Before the planes, they were riding buses. Yeah, think about that. Before the planes, they were riding buses.
So I think because my era was so close to that dynamic, I understood it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The young guys now, they're so far removed from us taking commercial flights and saying that these different hotels not having practice facilities, they don't know. Colleges right now got better facilities. Yeah, that's crazy.
They got their names on their jerseys. Bro, I mean, they're getting paid. And I'm not mad. This guy's in college right now. I was reading one kid.
Um that young man. Making four or five million a year. It's a young man out of BYU, A.J. DeBonce. I think he's making eight or nine million a year.
Is it school? NIL, name, image, and likeness. Basically, name, image, and likeness. Like the school now can only pay an athlete or athlete so much money. what they make out of that, like endorsements and stuff.
Is what they can make, which I ain't mad at. Right, right. You know, make it while you can. There's a lot of young men and women that will stay in college knowing that that's their highest earning potential. Really?
If they can. Um because they'll make more money probably on that NIL deal. Then Trying to play overseas or go to the G League. Yeah. I never even thought of it like that.
So just fail, fail your No, what they're doing, graduate early and have another year eligibility. And play another year. depending on their circumstance. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Dang. I thought that they had to fail. No, you can come back as a graduate and play. No, no, that's if it's extended because there's some circumstance. Like you're in COVID, you had an extra COVID year, you had all this other stuff, so it got extended.
But. That's what I'm saying with regards to young people, and I see it all the time, just but it. Is a microcosm of society. I don't care if it's comedy, if it's acting, if it's music, hip-hop. You know, we have you, we, I know you, hip-hop head.
Head. You know, and we talk about this all the time. Like, the best era of hip-hop is when. Yeah. I guess it depends on.
It depends on what area you're in, but I, me personally, I think. Like the 90s. the 90s the mid 90s was when it was like that's when it was People was making money. The craft was better. People was flowing like never before.
You had different styles. All different styles in the night.
So many different styles. Yeah, the 80s was more influential. Yes. The 90s. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The 90s is more like, that's what it was. But, yo, everybody gave homage. You know what I mean? Like, that's what it's always good to give homage to people that came before you. I remember when Nas came out.
When Nas first album, Illmatic, when he was like, the fiend of hip-hop has got me stuck like a crackpipe. Talk about Rock Cameron. He talked about giving them love. And it's just when you see that, it just makes you feel so good to see somebody do that. And you know, nowadays it's it's just more a lot of people like I did this on my own.
And that's the weird part right now because. You really can't knock these young cats because they really did do it on their own. We don't we didn't know nothing about streaming and And putting out content and doing all this.
So we didn't give you no what you should do.
So when they do. Get it on their own, they feel like.
Well, you can't tell me nothing. What are you gonna tell me? I made this on my own. Go sit down somewhere. This ain't even your feel.
And it's like, yeah, I just, yeah, okay, yeah, I go sit. I go sit down. Like, you know what? It's interesting you said that because it's a good transition because. Bike.
In comedy, and I know you said this about. Being a comedian, streaming comedian, is a lot different than being on stage and actually performing. Yeah. What's the difference?
Okay.
So um That audience, that audience, you can't cheat the audience. I don't care what you do online. When you get in front of that audience, and I don't care how famous you are. I've seen the most famous people in the world. Not just good in front of that audience.
Good example. The audience gives you a five-minute grace period at the top. Famous, famous, famous. You famous, you famous, you famous. Bring it.
And if you don't bring it after that, then I've seen a lot of people, man. I remember one time, it was this actor dude, man. And I think he's a great actor, like, for real. Man, Orlando Jones, I think he used to be the 7-up guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I saw him in Atlanta one time. I didn't know he was a comedian. Me neither? Did you just go to the show and he just showed you? I was in Atlanta and he was performing.
I was like, and I said, oh, I said, man, let me go check him out because I was curious. And he went on, he did his thing. Right.
But that audience, Jack, is just. I mean, he was cool, but it was just. You know, you, it just is that thing where it's like, yeah, you funny and you're good, or whatever. You know, to a certain group of people, but you can't go. LA is LA, LA is deceitful.
The shows you do out here, everybody's very nice. Very polite. Certain things you can't talk about. You go to Memphis with that same act, they're going to be hitting you in the head with barbecue. They're going to be like, hey, man.
Come on, man. I ain't come here and pay my money for this. I ain't got this. I ain't got this outfit. Come on, man.
Like, yo, you got to come with it.
So, therefore, yeah, you have to trust that audience. The audience ain't there to play with you. You know what I mean? Like I said, shout out to Orlando, great actor. I love the guy, and like I said, he was doing his thing, but it just wasn't like sometimes you can be naturally funny, but that doesn't translate to being a great comedian.
Right.
You can be naturally funny, but that stage, that audience in a stage is a different thing. It's a lot of content creators that are famous for something that they did online, and they get in front of that audience, and they have a catchphrase. And they do that catchphrase. After you do that catchphrase, you still got 55 minutes to go to keep the audience. How hard is it to keep?
But you had to learn that from somewhere, bro. You didn't come in the game. And already knew all of this stuff. Like, how to keep, how to engage your audience, how to fundamentally write the jokes, how to set up the jokes. Yeah, it came from bombing.
It came from going on stage, bombing. And every time something didn't work, I went, noted, noted. And I'm not going to do that again. Or I know how to get out of that. Or I'll be like, how can I get out of that?
What's a way to get out of that? You know, and I try to figure it out. Like, man, if I ever get caught in that situation again, how am I going to get out of that? And so it takes practice, man. I remember DL told me this one time, man.
I remember meeting DL Ugly when I was six years in doing comedy, right? And I told him that. I was like, man, I mean, he said, I don't even know comedy. I said, six years. He was like, the.
Huh. Talk to me when you are 12. Really? And I was like this, what? Looking at him like, what?
But I understood. I understood. After 12 years, I was like, that's when I. was like oh Now, oh, I know how to write the joke now. But it took 12 years for me to go, even though I was.
Doing stuff and killing, doing my thing, or whatever. But the art of that to know and to trust your instinct and to know exactly how to write a joke and write it not just for myself when I was writing for other people, know how to write for other people as well. You know, it was. It took practice and I understood exactly what the shout out to the, you know, so yeah, it takes practice. Everything takes practice and it takes corrective criticism.
Right.
Corrective criticism without taking it personal. I ended up taking that and taking it in and going, okay, fine, cool from the OGs that told me. As you know, managing maintenance, repair, and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Granger has your back. From professional grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery.
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So it's, but okay, I want to go back to the writing of Jokes. Like fundamentally, like when you sit down and you know, okay, I got something I want to say, how do you set it up? How does a comedian go through? Engage in that crowd real quick and then boom, hit them with it.
Well, me personally, I have to like live. I have to live in order to find material. I got to like talk to people. I got to like engage in things that are interesting and stuff like that in order to find something to. To talk about shout out to my man Chris Rock.
Chris Rock reads like Five newspapers front to back every day. That's crazy. Yeah, crazy. You know what I'm saying? So so everybody process is different.
You know, I just got I gotta be around people and I gotta like talk and I gotta live and I gotta do things I normally don't do in order for me to find the The funny in it or whatever, and then I deliver it to an audience, you know. And I try to and not and not only just deliver it, I got to figure out how to deliver it. Yeah, and that's the key, too, right? You can have a funny joke, but if you don't know how to deliver it to the crowd, it's just words. There's a lot of people out here that's doing jokes, but you don't remember them.
You don't remember. You don't even remember the material. But they were funny. They was funny. It was funny.
But do you remember? Kanyan quoted, It's like you have to, there's a thing that has to connect with you and what you do. And that goes with anybody doing anything, a plumber to a person who tap dance, whatever it is. Who we who's tap dancing? Who's fixing my pipes?
Like, I want to know who it is, whose podcast am I on? What makes it different? Like, are we just doing? I mean, is this a regular plumber? Or is this one where I'm like, man, I like this dude?
This dude really knows what he's doing. Knowledgeable, he's cool, I feel comfortable. There's a lot of people that don't even know what the hell they're doing in every job. But somebody liked them.
Somebody liked them. And that's why they there. You know? Yeah, I I never I never thought of it like, you know. Yeah, people want people around that they like.
You know, a lot of people with this, with the circle, that's that's a a false circle is. to me 80% talent I mean 40% talent. 40% who you know, but that 20% is what a lot of people lack. And that's why that circle won't connect. And that 20% is likability.
Likeability. You gotta be likable in some kind of way.
Somebody gotta like you. You ain't even gotta know what you're doing, and you can get hired.
Well, that's true, too. 20%. Yeah. I know a lot of business stuff, too. Like, a lot of times, it's not, it's a lot of people who got money, but don't have connections.
Because their personality is not. One that really connects with other people or resonates with other people. And sometimes it's somebody that. is not financially as stable, but good. But it's something that resonates, and the guy or woman is like, you know, I want to work with you because I just like you.
And people do business majority of the time, unless there's like billions of dollars at stake. with people they like. Yeah. Exactly. And a lot of people get hired on that, being likable.
I remember one time this guy told me. He said rich people's job is to floss, poor people's job is to critique. Which people's job is to floss, poor people's job is to critique.
So, if a guy pulls up and he's got rams and stuff on his car and all this. There's a poor guy looking going, no, I would do this if you did that. And the rich guy listened to him and go, uh. I'm gonna go do that. You know what I mean?
You're appealing to those that don't have or whatever, but you claim like you I mean, you like it, but still people that don't have is is looking at that, you know what I mean? And they have ideas, but if you can I'm talking about business wise. If you combine your business with People that With regular consumers and just regular people, you'll have a successful business if you run it off of what people need. And that's all it is. And I think that's why a lot of big businesses have made it, like Target and Walmart, and all these people.
The regular consumer runs each business. And people need to know that. Your ideas. are needed for business. But At the same time, Your ideas can start you a business.
So yours too.
So think about this, your comedy. Did you ever think that, one, where you would be here, but the more important part. that you would be writing for. Other comedians like Conan O'Brien and stuff like that. Was that part of the plan or did it just?
No, that wasn't part of the plan at all. I was writing out of necessity. I didn't have jokes.
So I just. If you didn't have jokes, how could you get somebody else's jokes? Yo, I'm telling you, at the beginning, I was like, didn't have nothing. I was like, I was performing on fumes. I was just going on stage.
Just like, where the Capricorns at? Seriously. Who birthday it is?
So, anyway, you got a show. And you didn't have. I had no material. I would just go out there and talk or whatever. But then later on, I was like, man, I have to write.
I can't keep doing that. I have to write. And so I just went crazy writing, just kept writing and writing and writing to the point where. You know, other people began to take notice of how I wrote. I wasn't like a crowd favorite at all.
I mean, I was always kind of odd and. the way I delivered my material was different and so I wasn't the crowd favorite, but I was a comics comic. And the comic can look at me and be like, oh, nah, I get it. He got mine. If I did my style with his pen, And so I ended up linking with a lot of people like that.
But how hard is it to write? From a personality, you know your personality.
So, if you, you, you, you got your stuff and you're writing a joke and you got it, you know how to deliver it, you know the punchline and how to give it. But that same person that you're writing for personality may be way different.
So, how do you? Assess How they will be able to one get the joke and then deliver it where it hits. It's uh being around them and paying attention to them. Everybody's different. First of all, I wouldn't even take a writing job if it wasn't somebody that was in the character within themselves.
You know what I mean? I've written for a lot of people from Nick Cannon, Cat, Tracy Ellis Ross, Diddy. I wrote for Ricky Smiley. I wrote for a lot of people on top of just other comedians I didn't give punches to or whatever. But each one of these people that I named, they are characters within themselves.
So basically, all I had to do is really listen to them and then take themselves, take them. And apply structure to what they already was basically saying. And it just, it just always worked out. That was always been my formula of writing, you know, for other people, whatever. Like taking who they are and applying it to, you know, what they say.
Instead of them just saying something, it's structuring what they said in order for it to come off to your head. Right.
So, how did you connect with Conan? Man, I went on there as a guest to perform. I performed on Late Night Show as a guest. And after I got off stage, he came and talked to me for a little bit. And then two weeks later, he was like, Man, can you write for me?
Two weeks. Two weeks later, he was like, Man, can you write? Can you come write for me? And I was like, Write what? What you talking about?
You already good. What are you talking about? I'm not thinking like that. I'm thinking, like, I just write for my friends and people that, you know, Conan was like, Like, that was untouchable to me at the time. That was the tonight show?
Like, I'm from the south side of Chicago. I'm like, the tonight show? Like, that was crazy to me to even. First of all, to even go on it was crazy as a guest. And then to.
Be working there? That was nuts to me. You can't even fathom nothing like that.
So you had two aha moments. One going on there. Yeah. Like. Like when you got that call, tell me how that worked.
Tell me how that gets you on it. Man, my manager called me and was like. Crying. And I was like this, what happened? I was like, what happened?
I was just instantly like, what happened? She's like, no, no, nothing, nothing. Uh, I I think they want you to like work at the tonight show. And I was like Like, do what? And they was like, Connor wants you to write for him.
And I was like, right, right, what? And she was like, right for him, like every day. I'm like, huh? I was like, get out of here. She was like, no, for real.
I was like.
So, do I got to submit something? She was like, No, they just want you there Monday. Am I, huh? I was like, so based on, so you go on, let me walk me through this.
So you get invited to go on, kill it while you're on there. Kill it. Then he invites you back. He wants, did he talk to you in between?
So then he said that maybe this is what I want to do. He came to my dressing room after I finished performing. Came to my dressing room and he was like, He started talking to me about parking spaces. He was like, Hey, did you get a good parking space? And I was like, Yeah, like it's a parking structure out there.
Like, everybody parking it. He was like, But did you get a good space? And I was like, Yeah, that was cool. And he was like, ah. It's like, you like parking meters?
I was like, they are high. He's like, yeah, I hate them. He's like, especially when they want change. I liked when they went to credit cards. I was like, yeah, that was great.
He's like, yeah, that's good.
So, where's this going? All right, man. Good job for me. And he just left it at that. I was like, all right.
Yeah. And that was it. And then Two weeks later. People is like, hey. He wants you here.
Wow. And I was like crazy. He has a sidekick by the name of Andy Richter that's on the show with him. Shout out to Andy. Mm-hmm.
When he first started his late night show, he was looking for a host, right? And he went through all these auditions with all these different hosts. I mean, all the best top comedians came to audition to be his co-host. And he was just like, man, there's a couple that he liked, you know. But then he gets on this elevator and he's waiting on the and the elevator's going down and Andy gets on the elevator.
And he's like mad, and Cona's just like, they don't know each other. Con is like. Sub buddy and he was like, ah. I had this audition, and he just started riffing about this audition or something that he had, or something that he had. that he was angry about.
And Conan just was like, That you You hired him. That's the ultimate elevator pitch. Hired him. Hired him. That's the ultimate elevator pitch.
Man, I'm so pissed right now. And he's getting hired for the job. I'm just telling you what I'm saying. But I'm going to tell you something, though. The reason why I'm even telling you that, see, back in the day, and that's what's up with like a lot of OGs and stuff.
We move and we have moved. Off anything that we do, we always moved off feeling. Never money. It was never money. It was never how hot we were or how we were trying to be famous.
And we had none of that in mind. Always feeling. And I think that's what's missing a lot of times nowadays about the people. Uh chasing money, chasing fame. And they're getting it quickly.
Quick, but it's quick. But there's no feeling. The feel. You don't even know how to feel your way through this process. You know?
And a lot of people are missing that. Can it get back to that though? I don't think so. You think that is about to be the norm. Absolutely.
I just saw a story today that said there's the number one song in the country right now is AI. Have you seen the stuff like that? I saw AI with Umbrella. Yeah. It was Jay and it was Rihanna, but it was banging too.
Yeah, no, no, no, no. I ain't gonna lie. Hot. I was like, but. No, the number one song in the country right now is a country song that's AI.
That is number one. And this black chick, I seen her make a song, and I think it's number one on RB, AI. Nobody arranged the music. Nobody wrote the lyrics.
Well, you can write the lyrics and put it in, and you can arrange the music on AI, and then AI does the rest or whatever, but. Again, where's the human aspect? Where's the feeling? The feeling's gone. There's no feeling there at all.
And a lot of music being made right now, there's no church in it. We came up on church. You can listen to Mary J. Bodge right now, Phil Church. You can listen to Jodic, Phil Church, Genuine Church.
You can hear church in everybody's songs. Like nowadays, You just don't hear no church in it, you know, and church is a feeling, you know what I mean? And so that's just me. And I'm quite sure some other people out there probably feel like I feel, but. I would love to get the feeling back.
We would never have what we had. You can't chase what we had. That's gone. But see, that's the feeling. When you go to concerts and you see Erica Badu and Jill Scott and Sadeba, the stuff goosebumps, man.
They are there for the feeling that you felt before. You know what I mean? And that's how it is. When you go see Wu-Tang, a nah, just the feeling. that you feel and that's what's missing and that's what You want people to have in their music.
So later on, when they go see this, they'll have that feeling. You know what I mean? And so. Do you think that's why? Right now, when you look at, and we go stay with the music, a lot of the older artists, whether that's RB or hip-hop.
Are now selling out and really I think from a concert perspective, outside of the Chris Browns and the Beyoncés and stuff, like look at look at the old school artists now. You just recently got the tour set up with BB, I mean, with New Edition, with Boys to Man, Tony Brown. But. More people now are going back to those kind of shows, like those older artists right now are benefiting from that. Is that the feel you talk?
You know what I mean? Yeah, man, that's exactly the feel, man. It's the feel because these moments, this music, music, and I tell people this all the time: music is bookmarks in life. I like that. You know what I mean?
I like that. Yeah, it's bookmarks in life. When you heard this song, it set a bookmark in your life. You remember your prom song, you remember your draft song, you remember your first love. Those are all you got your heart broke, but you got your heart broke song.
I remember myself. I remember this girl broke my heart. I sat on my radio and played DeVodge. uh time we're revealing right hey mine was make make me a believer when it comes soon as i hear the first chord of the beat drop i'm like man yeah it takes me there man i'm like no she can see me now Yes sir, yes sir. I'm telling you, man, that's what music does.
Like, just like what just happened right now. Between me and you, we felt that. We went right back to that moment. And that's what it's about. I'm gonna hear a real good one.
So, back in the day, you know, at the crib in the 80s. You have usually one TV. If your parents had one in the room, I don't know how to do it. But, you know, so you had dinner, and everybody would watch shows on TV. Mm-hmm.
Miami Vice. Yeah. And my father. wanted us to watch it. And the scene at the beginning With Phil Collins and they driving in the car at night, the Miami streets.
And the beat is just building. Yeah. And building. And then all of a sudden, doo doom, doo, the drum coming. To this day, when I see that, and it takes me back for a time when it was.
Mother, father, my sister, myself. Just got done to eating dinner. We may have some popcorn. You know what I'm saying? They sitting on the couch.
We sitting on the floor. And all of us as a family were sitting there watching this show. Right.
And that's what that song did for you. It brings your memories back of your family. And that's all I be asking about artists to this day. Like, make some music the family can listen to. Not a song where you got to tell your kid to go put their headphones on and watch their iPad while you play this.
You know, make some music that everybody can listen to. Together, you know what I mean? Like, for me, the whining, I remember the whining, just anything the whining, like the, like, the, like, the, not BB and C C, like, the old one, the old, the OGs, like, that will come on, man, and it just takes me right back to me and my mom on the bus, going to church. Coming home, playing this, not having no money, not having nothing, and playing this all the time, man. It'd be all over in the morning.
We used to listen to that all the time. Anytime I hear whining, I just. Man, just remember that. And so. But it's family.
And it was just me and my mama all the time.
So anytime I hear that, it just takes me back. It takes you back. It also takes me back.
So my father drove the bus, right, in Toledo. But on the weekends in the summer, A lot of the other families would get together at other people's houses to have barbecue. Nice.
So you had the families, you had the kids running around, and then. In the you know early late 70s, early 80s, all the music was playing all the time.
So, when you had the stylists, the barge, Luthers, and you had Isaac Brothers, all these songs that were played, Tina Marie, yeah, and it just When I hear these, like you talk about, I hear these songs and I go back to the barbecues in the summertime. Kids running around, we don't know, but we know. And the parents are just, you know, just there. And I don't know. And again, I'm not in every neighborhood of how relevant that still is.
Man, I don't know on a consistent basis like it was back. Yeah, I don't. I tell you, I don't know neither, but I'll tell you one thing I haven't heard. I ain't heard nobody had no family reunions. I ain't heard that in a long time now.
And I can't even, ain't nobody even invited me to. My family still do family reunions. My family do. They still get T shirts and all of that. They do it all the time.
I don't know how many families still do that. I really haven't heard it. But again, that's what that music does. That's what that era was. It was about Feeling and being present.
You know what I mean? And nowadays, Like I said, a lot of technology, and I'm a victim of it too. It isolates you. It keeps your thoughts. It keeps you centered on your phone and what you're looking at and what you're doing and keeps you from not being engaged with people around you.
And you know what I mean? And so, yes, it's just a different world right now, you know, and My complaining ain't gonna do nothing. It ain't gonna do nothing at all. It's just what I wish. But you manage, so I don't mean no harm to nobody.
I just, it's just what I wish. But you got an opportunity, and I know you used, like, you talked about bookmarks. But then when you do your specials, you're talking about Evergreen and how important that is to you. Yeah. And kind of keeping your comedy, your comedy.
It's not a I'm not going to talk political. Pop culture is one thing I may, if it's relevant, you'll talk about it. But how did that come to? kind of shape and form who you are when you use the word evergreen with your comedy stuff. Um It just keeps me.
I always wanted to do comedy that Wasn't dated at all. Like, I always wanted to do something where you can put it on. 15 years from now, and watch it, and it's just as relevant as it was then. You know what I mean? And so.
Uh I've just always been a a A fan of that kind of comedy. I love comedy that's for that time and era, too. You know what I mean? Because I don't do it, so I love to watch other people do it.
So I'm not against it at all. I just me personally. That's what I do, you know. Because, like, one of my favorite comedians of all time is Day Chappelle. And I've.
Had had the the honor to be friends and work with him and tour with him and and Do a lot of things with him or whatever. And he does a lot of things that's in a moment, that's time, you know. And nobody can do it better than him. He's like the goat at it. And I love watching him, you know.
And I want to do that sometimes, you know what I mean? What holds you back? I think that's just Not me, in a sense. You know, I think I'm more of an observational kind of guy. You know what I mean?
And so. I just stick with my lane and do a lot of observational collaboration.
So if you stick with your lane. That but you made the transition from going from a comedian to an actor. I mean, so see what I'm saying? Like the growth part of it, you say this is who I am, but yet still. No, this is facts.
You jump over to the transition is there.
So, how was that transition for you? And we've seen it because the blueprint. Before you had Richard Pryor, of course, back in the day, doing his thing. Of course, Red Fox doing his thing. But You seen it, the blueprint was there, but yet in your mind, you said, No, I'm just a comedian.
I'm a comedian. At what point did it cross over? You say, You know what? I can try my hand at this acting.
Well, I always wanted to act. That was like something I always wanted to do, but I just didn't have the money for it. You know, we did, I couldn't go, couldn't go to acting. No, none of that. Here we go with my feeling again.
I didn't feel the way that it felt.
So, yeah, that was it. That was something that I always wanted to do. And it was, you know, I always just felt like. you know, it'll get me there. Comedy will get would get me there eventually, you know, but uh I had to uh just make sure that I w um did the work.
You know what I mean? And one thing about acting, it's not like you. complete the work. It's always you're always working hard to stay in that zone and learning. It's always a learning Always a learning experience when it comes to acting, you know what I mean?
And I'm still learning to this day, you know. But I feel like the more that I do, whether it be on a big scale or a small scale, it's all reps. It's reps. There we go. It's all reps.
It's all reps. And so I love the. The reps that I have on any platform in order to. Keep working and keep learning and learning how to make decisions and be more comfortable in my decision making. And yeah, yeah, you know, I love it.
I love it.
So, but was that hard? Basketball player, athlete. People put you in the box. If you do something else, they look at you like you're crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, not more so now they've accepted that part that athletes can do more. But. Because you are a comedian when you go to acting. I was I remember Ice U always talking about how they wanted to kind of typecast him in roles. For you being a comedian, It's a con The funny guy role.
Yeah. But you were able to do that on Black Hist, but then you transitioned that. Charlotte's point, right? Yeah. More dramatic.
Yeah. Take me between the two because you're here funny. And here, this is more drama. Yeah. Well, when it comes to switching over to drama or whatever, it was.
You could study all day long, you know, to be a dramatic actor. At the end of the day, it ain't gonna do nothing if you don't have the opportunity.
Okay.
Somebody gotta give you the opportunity in order to show how You can pull this off. You got the chops to do it. Right.
So that's what happened with me, in a sense. You know, the opportunity presented itself where somebody believed in me enough to go. Who was that person? James Samuel.
Okay.
James Samuel, director, writer, composer. He made The Heart of They Fall and The Book of Clarence.
Okay.
He actually did one of the last songs with D'Angelo too. Restpeace D'Angelo on the Book of Clarence CD, him and Jay-Z and D'Angelo on a song together. I think the last song D'Angelo made. Shout out to James. James is a visionary all the way around the board.
And um You know, when it came to dramatic. acting, he looked at me and was like I think he can pull this off. You know, when I was going, are you sure? And he was going, yeah, I'm sure. Are you sure?
Dramatic. Yeah, that was. That's a whole different. But I knew I can do it, but I just didn't. No, I can do it until I did it.
And then I was like, oh, I felt like I can do it because. All comedians are based off Pain, you know, all our jokes is something. Drastic that we went through, whether it be small or big, but it's pain. Don't ain't nobody coming to see us go. Hey, yeah, I'm happy.
My life is great. And man, my wife is good. My girlfriend's good. My job is good. My kids, anybody coming to hear that?
So it's based off pain. And you know, things of that nature.
So I just always felt like if you could take that pain and Use it. To become a character, then if I could figure that out, then I'll I'll be okay. And I think I did figure it out. And I'm still working. I'm not saying I figured it out, but.
I I'm able to Vanish in these roles. You know, as much as possible.
So now you marry the two because you're still going on tour.
So does the. Does the dramatic acting enhance and help you with your stand-up comedy? Or does your stand-up comedy help you with? Being more of a better dramatic actor. Nah, they're different.
See, because comedy is more therapeutic. It's like my thoughts, whatever. But even on stage, your presence on stage, like being a dramatic actor, now does that help you when you're on stage, like maybe deliver something different? Nothing. No, acting is an escape.
Okay.
That's something totally different. For me, that is. Like, that's, I'm escaping. I'm getting away from Anything comedy related, except for like if it's a comedy that I'm doing, then yeah, I definitely want the timing. of of comedy, how the time is.
That does come into play. That comes into play. My timing comes into play. My comedy timing. But uh if it's not a comedy, then yeah, it's it m my my hardest job is is is pulling back, you know, like 'cause you always I'm I'm so used to delivering the punch line that it's like they you know, with with dramas, they like, no, we don't need you to do none of that.
Sit down, yeah, relax. You know, you go, okay. I gotta constantly go, okay.
Okay.
You know, things of that nature. Charlene's son, that was a little bit different because that was closer to you. Yeah, yeah, that was there. And see, that's what I mean. That's therapeutic.
You know, uh, when I shot Charlene's Boy on Netflix, it was me, um. I shot it a year after my mom passed away on the same day. It was on the same day. September 10th. She passed on September 10th.
I shot it on September 10th a year later. That was the first anniversary of her death. I um Didn't want a crutch. I didn't want people. Woe is me and me.
You know, so I I I wouldn't mention So you didn't mention it at all. What about your business? And I went about my whole business to the end of the special.
Well, how was that shooting on? That day, it was terrible. It was terrible. I didn't even want to do it. It was terrible because that wasn't the plan.
The plan was not to. Dedicated special to her. Like that just wasn't it. But all the things that happened made it that way. And I would not look back.
I I I believed. and the process. Uh It came out the way that it was, but man, I wasn't supposed to shoot in New York. I wasn't supposed to shoot on that day. I wasn't supposed to do nothing.
But every, I had to.
So, when you do these specials, you got to pick and choose a place that you're going to shoot the special, right? If you toured a whole year, which I did, and you toured every city. You ain't got a city left to shoot in. Right.
So, I did every city except for New York. And I was like, This, okay, so where am I going to shoot at? And they was like, Man, the only place you didn't shoot was New York. And I was like, Really? I mean, the only place you didn't tour was New York.
And I was like, really? And I was like, New York, they rough sometimes. You know, sometimes I do good.
Sometimes I ain't sure, man. I mean, I love New York. They love me. But I don't want to shoot a special in New York because I don't know what New York I'm going to get, especially in Brooklyn. I didn't know if I was going to get.
Righteous Brooklyn, Biggie Brooklyn, Gentrified Brooklyn. I don't know what Brooklyn was going. And they all came. It was over, they all of them came. And so I was just like, and so.
They was like we got to find a venue And I was like, man, let me do Radio City Music Hall. And they was like, it's all booked up, just booked up, booked up. And there's like, we found the place. And it's in Brooklyn, it's King's Theater. And I said, Oh, okay, that's cool.
How many seats? They're like 31, 3,200, 3,300, something like that. 3,500, 3,500. I was like, This, oh, okay, it's a little bigger than what I wanted, but that's fine. And I was like, what day?
September 10th. I was like this. No, I'm good. Really? And it was like this.
Well, you have now else to shoot. And I was like We can't find nothing as I know. No other city, nowhere, everything booked, everything gone. New York. Is that 10 minutes to be, bro?
You mean it was meant to be. It was meant to be. And I had to accept that. I had to, I went from, oh man, it's like, no, I can't do that. Ain't no way in hell I can do that.
to a voice coming to me and just going Man, dedicate this whole thing to her. Like, dedicate this. Just make this about her. This is her. Change the name of your special and dedicate the whole thing to her.
It's a reason why. You got this date. It's a reason why this is the only place you could shoot. It's a reason. Reason.
And I said, all right. I'm gonna change the name. Call the Charlene's Boy. We're gonna shoot September 10th. And I am I am going to go out there and I am going to give it the best I can.
And that's exactly what I did.
So when you walked away and got done shooting from that, So I know you put a lot of thought, but the emotion. into kind of How this show was going to be choreographed, so to speak. But when you finally got done with it, what was the first thing you did? It collapsed. Collapsed.
I was weak. Collapsed. Mentally weak or physically weak? Both. Both.
I was both. collapse. And then I had to shoot another one. Because you shoot two specials in one day. Right.
had to go back out and do it again. And That's when I did what I did at the end 'cause I didn't do that at the end on the first show. I did at the end on the second show. When the last, because the first show, I just left and collapsed and was like hurt. And then the second show, That's when I said what I said that made it into the thing.
I think I was just like, yo, I want y'all to understand what this day is. And yo, you have no idea what the comedian goes through. You know what I mean? And I'm glad you all having a good time, but you have no idea what I'm going through right now. And letting them know my mom passed a year from this.
I ain't know I was going to say none of that. It just happened and so. Yeah, it just came about and like I said, I went with the process. Y'all came out like that and... had no idea that I was gonna resonate to so many people.
Who have lost their parents. And I remember this woman came up to me and she was like, Man, welcome to the club. And she said, welcome to the 50 Club. That's what she said. And I was like, the 50 club?
And she was like, oh, yeah. She was like, a lot of people in their 50s. lose their parents 'cause their parents hit seventy and eighty years old and stuff like that.
So there are a lot of people lose their parents in their fifties. She was like, so this is just evolution of life and welcome to the Fifty Club. And I just I was at a car lot and when in some minivan and cried. I was like this, thank you very much, man. Car stickers and stuff.
I just went in the van, dog. It's just like and then the dude opened the door like, Do you like this? And I was like, Closed the door, bro. You like, you ain't got a clue, bro. And then the dude opened the door and he was like, You all right?
And I was like telling him what happened. And the salesman started crying. Did he? And yeah, because he lost his mother probably like two years earlier. And then he was like fifty-six.
And so, yo, for real, it was like this whole thing or whatever that was like, wow. And so, so many people. Resonated with that, man, and it just became a thing, man. And, you know, it was like a super love fest, and still is to this day, you know, a love fest with anybody that, you know, lost their parents. You know, in their 50s.
And like I said, I had just turned. You know, I was just like, oh, I was like, this is crazy, you know, to be a part of it. I didn't even know this was a thing like that. You know what I mean? That's the first time I heard that, though.
It's welcome to the 50 clubs usually when you get 50 and you turn 50. But she looked at it from a whole different thing. I ain't never heard nothing like that. It was crazy.
Well, you talk about New York.
So I wanted to do this. I know about New York.
Okay, so I want to do these. This like this quick little Uh Quick question and answer. First thing comes to mind.
Okay.
So this might be, you might have already answered it, but toughest city, you get a laugh in. Toughest city to get a laugh. Just hard no matter Memphis. Memphis. Yeah.
Memphis is I love Memphis. I love performing in Memphis too, but boy, you better not come down there with that DS, buddy. Shout out to Michael. Shout out to Mike. They're going to get you right.
Yeah. Most underrated comedian working today. The most underrated comedian working today. Working today. Most underrated comedian working today.
That I think is hilarious. This is on you. Whatever you think. Ah, underrated. Yeah, maybe doesn't get the love that they deserve.
Oh, I tell you somebody I think is I Would never want to follow this dude, even right now. Shout out to my guy, Tony Roberts. Yeah, I saw some stuff online with Tony Robbie.
Somebody, if Tony Robbins on stage and I'm next, we got to put somebody between us.
Okay.
I'd be like, no, you go on, then I'll follow you. Let Tony go, then you go, then I'm going to go. Like, yeah, that's a boy. That boy's a beat. He always has been.
That's one of my great friends, man. Back in the day, you know, starting up. He was in Detroit. I was in Chicago. But boy, that boy is.
Yeah, he vicious. My go-to. I like the Fiji. The Fiji, the Fiji. Plug, plug, plug.
And the Coco Black. But that's a given, right? I'm just gonna put you on the horse, bro. You know, that's a good one. Hey, my dude was rolling for a minute, though.
I ain't sexy enough no more. I could be on the gold or something.
Okay, break down all this up. One celebrity you still dying to work with? One celebrity I'm still dying to work with as far as like filming or something. Man. Filming could be comedy, it could be whatever.
Man, uh Denzel, I would love to work with Denzel. I mean, I have the honor to work with so many greats. The only person I think I haven't worked with is Denzel and Jeffrey Wright. Oh, Jeffrey Wright. I would love to work with Jeffrey Wright.
Jeffrey Wright is that he's incredible, man. And Angela Bass. I would love to work with Angela LeBron.
Okay.
So give me four faces. Mount Rushmore comedy. Four faces. Four faces of Mal Grushmore, a lie, passed away. It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter. Ah. Graham, Fox, Richard. Uh Eddie That fourth one. Come on.
Come on. George Garland. Really? George Guy. George Garland is one of the sickest minds ever that ever did it.
ever, ever, ever, ever did it. Definitely not.
Okay.
And that rare fox is tied with Dave Chappelle. Dave Chappelle.
Okay.
Dave is like. He's Uh we I want everybody to protect Dave at all costs. He is so important because he is allowing us to say what we want to say. not be cancelled. Be free.
And because of him not having any endorsements and no networks telling him what to do or anything like that or anything like that. He can just say and do whatever he wants to do. You know what I mean? And man, we need him at the forefront in order for us to be able to, you know, be free and live up to our Fifth Amendment. You know, and I think it's.
I think it's great to have, you know. I got like this. I had this show, like the series, it's called like Funny Knowing You. These comedians that I have on there, I have them like talking. about their lives.
I interview them, right? from their parents meeting to where they are right now, not just comedian, like interesting people, period, right? Every answer they give is real, but every answer is funny. It's almost like they're doing a whole new hour of material about their life. You know what I mean?
So they go through each answer that, each question I give them, they give me. The funniest answer that's real. about their life, right? And it is so Crazy, dar, how they get down and the influence that they had, and all the people that. Help them out and all the things that they did up until this point, or whatever.
And Dave, he hasn't done it yet, but. Dave has one of them stories, though, that is like insane. It's still crazy to me that Dave lives in Springfield, Ohio, bro. It's bananas. People that don't know Springfield is in between Columbus and Dayton.
Okay, it's in between. All right. That's crazy. Last one. Because you've been out here in LA.
Biggest difference between Chicago and LA? Biggest difference between the two. Food. Food. Fool.
You ain't gonna find a kale salad in Chicago. And the suburbs. Northbrook. But they gentrifying the city, the downtown area. You might be able to fry one now.
But man, nah, I think the food. And definitely the people. Definitely the people. You know, Chicago is more straight to the point. Midwest, man.
Midwest people. Ain't no games. And we ain't gonna waste no time with you. You know, a lot of LA people. And I ain't gonna say LA people, people that moved here that ain't from LA, they're.
They'll tell you everything good and it ain't.
So I think that's the difference. It's interesting, too, but I think that people that, if you know some people from LA, though, like in the heart of LA, it's real people. Real people. But then you get called up into the hot. I said, people, you come out to LA.
It's a lot of transient people that moved here that now that lived here, but you got to go to the real LA to kind of really see the. The authenticity of it, but also the culture. Yes. It's so much culture in LA, but you gotta get out of the Hollywood and the West LA. All that kind of stuff to really see it.
In order to see it, and they are, the real LA people are, they are the best all the way around the board, authentic. The culture is great, all that, you know, and people like me and other people that move here, you gotta respect that. You gotta respect that. You gotta respect the LA culture. Don't come out here trying to change nothing.
This is how it gets, this is how they get down. And I love it. You know, I love LA and the people that's from LA.
Well, you know, man, I appreciate you taking the time to do this, but I wanted to wrap this up with this too. Is it tr i I think it's true that your first Uh opportunity to jump on say somebody bet you fifty dollars. Yeah. Someone bet you $50, right, to get up on stage. $50.
$50. So now, where you're at now, what would you tell that young man back then that jumped on stage for $50? Who what would I tell, man? I think I would tell that young man that jumped on stage that Trust your instincts and it's about to be all right. It's gonna be all right.
Like I promise you. Trust your instincts. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. On that.
That's it right there, bro. I appreciate you dropping through. It's been a minute, but I'm glad you appreciate it. We got to smoke that cigar. Let's get it.
Let's get it. Let's get it. Let's get it. Thanks, bro. I appreciate it.
Thank you so much. It's been great, man. Make sure you check out Deion's latest Netflix special, okay, Mr. You can see him in the new series, The Madness on Netflix. Funny knowing you on YouTube, and of course, Watch him on average Joe on BET.
He's on tour right now. Go to his website for tickets. Deion Cole, my man. Thank you, brother. This has been big time, man.
Big thanks to Deion again. Go see him on tour. Check out his special. Support everything he's doing. He's one of the real ones, bro.
I'm telling you. Midwest all the way. And thanks to all of you for listening. This is Jim Jackson's show. You can find us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever you get your podcast.
We appreciate you.
