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Now, on with the show. This is the Rich Eisen Show. What's up, Trevor? Trevor, Trevor, Trevor. The Rich Eisen Show.
Bill O'Brien and a reporter. Come in here with these down questions. This is a program that we're building. The sun is up, and we're fighting. That's my message to the fans.
What's up, Trevor? The Rich Eisen Show. Today's guests, Iowa head coach Kirk Ference. Former NFL executive Joe Banner. Actor Brett Gelman.
And now, it's Rich Eye Sent. Hour number two of the Rich Hodgen Show is on the air, 844204 Rich Number to Dial. Certainly, if you're listening to us on ESPN Radio by presented by Progressive Insurance, listen, if you're watching us on Disney Plus or ESPN, that doesn't mean you can't just pick up the phone and call us. I mean, you can call a TV show just as much as you can a radio show. It's just dicey to call when you're listening on a podcast.
We might not be here. But it's your right to listen whenever you want. All three hours. That's correct. And call us.
I mean,.
Somebody might be here. I don't know. Mike, you just sit sometimes. I'm sorry. Yes, they do.
Yeah, I answer the phone last time. You don't talk to anybody. I've seen you on planes. I would talk to. Yeah, exactly.
Listen, you talk to anybody. I do. You do. I know. You remember when I was a person?
I've been quiet on planes recently, though. I put headphones on. But it's not happening in your life. Because you guys have, like, basically self-like loathed me into being an a person. Excuse me.
Excuse me. You are a bad person all on your own. That's true.
Okay. That's true.
I'll take that credit. And an influence. And another thing, Vonica. Don't, don't.
Now you make me feel bad. We're not beating your. I don't even turn to people anymore now. Because I once equated you to that scene in airplane where people are just pouring gasoline on them when he's talking to them. It's true.
Okay. But anyway, good to see you. TJ Jefferson, candles lit, obviously for our number two. Just fun, good chat with Kirk Ferenc there. That's cool.
And we were just talking off air about Kinnick Stadium. Suze tells me all the time when she would do sidelines there. Um, that the fans are right on top of the teams. Like, she would, I think, she said she'd have to go in the stands to get around and walk the circumference of the stadium. to do her job.
You know. And do they still paint the visiting locker room pink? Pink, right? Because that's a visual, a cool color that makes you not want to go out and tackle somebody. I don't know.
Anyway, it's a big game against Oregon. I feel better that we're fair and balanced. We had Dan Lanning on last week. Kirk Ferenc on this. It's how you do it, though.
I appreciate that. Yeah. Let's talk about the Thursday Night Football Game. Because this is a big one. For the Denver Broncos and the Raiders as well.
I mean, there's no question. Um, Pete Carroll is looking in the mirror and saying, How the hell are we two and six? And um. Because they had the game right there. They had the game right there on uh on Sunday.
And had that two-point conversion worked. They would have been able to look at the Jacksonville Jaguars and say, What's up, Trevor? Ha ha ha ha. But they couldn't. They couldn't go full bob on them.
What's up, Trevor's Obser You never want to go full BOB. Never, never go full B.O.B. Bill O'Brien. Never, never. Unless you want to tell everybody how positive things are.
This could be what. We're not down. The sun is up. That's what he could tell the team before the game against the Broncos tonight. We're not down.
The sun is up. It just, it just tells your face. We're not down. The sun is up. You know what I mean?
Tell your voice. Tell your face. Hmm. Didn't he also say to him something like, I'm not sure how long ago you went to Boston College? Oh my gosh.
What's up? You come around here? It's like once a month. You're always negative. I didn't mean to go down to Bill O'Brien and whatever.
They almost beat Trevor Lawrence and the Jaguars and be able to tell them. What's up, Trevor? Can't play those new drops enough. But listen, it's. I'm sure this is how crazy things are in the NFL and how things can change.
Remember week one when Pete Carroll went to New England and Geno Smith looked terrific, and it's just like, nice move, Geno, nice move, Raiders. Hey, look out for Pete Carroll's Raiders. They're buying what he's selling. And yada, yada, yada.
Now it's week 10. The Patriots have only lost once since that game. Having won seven times out of the eight since that game. And the Raiders have only won once since that game. And Gino Smith.
Has thrown the ball. way too many times to the competition. And all 22 Mavens on socials. Just broke down that two-point conversion that would have won it. in overtime.
for the Raiders. that Chip Kelly had a concept to beat the zone. And Geno threw it to the only guy covered man-to-man and it got batted down. And that's maybe why Pete looked so surprised from the sideline. Because pre-snap They probably sat there saying, We're winning this game because we've got the play dialed up.
And you look at it, there are a bunch of people wide open, and I'm sure. Listen, it's a team game. The fact that it went to overtime. There are probably some other people making mistakes. And Max Crosby was left saying this.
after that loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars. You know, personally, like, I I just have a a special connection, you know, with the fan base. I've been here for seven years now, and um uh it's just You know. They been through it just like that men through it and being a fan, you know, growing up, like, that's all I cared about, that's all I my whole life, like. Watched every single game on Sundays and made my dad drive me to Buffalo Wildlings every Sunday to watch the games, and legitimately, like screaming, forcing him to take me to go to watch the games.
But, like, I know everybody takes, you know, everyone puts their time and effort to come and watch us play and spend their hard-earned money to get tickets to come and watch us play. take the every Sunday to watch us, you know, perform on in in Fallen Short. you know, time and time again, it's just, you know, I feel for him. Raider Nation, I love y'all with everything in my heart and soul. Y'all deserve better.
Stay as one. It will change. And those comments in this tweet. I think probably put a little bit of angst in the Raider nation. Like.
Are they really going to trade him potentially? Even though we're hearing they told him you're not traded, well. He didn't get traded. Jacoby Myers did to the team that had just beaten them. And now they take on a Denver Broncos team that is.
One six in a row. in Denver. And I'll just say this: I don't get anything from Prime Video. I am an NFL guy. And I understand people might s think that I'm a little bit too sunny a disposition, but.
Last time the Raiders were on Thursday Night Football, they scored 63 points against the Chargers. And here's a little stat for you. Follow me. Teams four games over 500 or better. Have lost two of the last two in a row and three of the last four Thursday night games against teams.
Four games. Under 500 or worse. Remember last year on Thanksgiving, Rogers and the Jets looked terrible all year long and the Houston Texans strolled in to MetLife and Garrett Wilson looked like the jump man? That was the last time that happened. Week 12, a few weeks later, remember Pittsburgh lost to Cleveland on Thursday night football?
There's all of that. Listen. Denver needs to start fast to just prove that it's not just against the Cowboys they can start fast. It's amazing how a team that's won six over 500, I'm sitting here saying they need to prove something still, but. Um Tonight's a night that they should mud hole this team, right?
You would think so. But I just gave you reasons not to. And that's Max Crosby out there coming for Bonix. And. Um I will say this about Bo.
Who has been just starting slow, except against the Dallas Cowboys? At the end of the day, though. He's still. Equals it out. Mm-hmm.
There are five quarterbacks this year. Five. Entering week 10 action, the number on Nix's uniform. to account for 20 total touchdowns or more. Their names are Mahomes and Stafford at 21.
And those at 20. Jalen Hurts, Josh Allen, and this kid. You'd think May would be one of them, too, right? Maybe. But Bo Nix is counting for 20 touchdowns.
Twenty. Same as Hurts, same as Allen. And now these are MVP quarterbacks we're talking about right here. Stafford's been mentioned now? Mahomes has been mentioned all season.
Allen, now, as you say, Christopher, in a town where The Raiders play and Mo Green has no plaque signed post to Remember what he did. Is it though, Mike? Is it Shane's? I mean. Yeah.
Main number. Bo and the godfather used to run molasses. Exactly. At any rate. Yeah.
I digress. I'm sorry, Rich. Alan's the favorite MVP, yes. That's where I'm talking about. I just got lost in a Mo Green wormhole there.
It's all good. Bo Nix is 100 to 1. It's crazy. I got it. Incase your curious.
I got lost in that Mow Green wormhole. Just like people who were looking to get a drink at the table got lost. Right? Yeah. Because of what Fredo was up to.
Yeah, then they got breaded with a title. Two at a time. Two at a time. Two at a time. All right.
And I'm sure they've got all queued up. Our guy T-Man's got all queued up for tonight's game, the fantastic producer of Thursday Night Football. On Prime Video, I'm sure he's got. The Beastquake game all queued up. Oh, yeah.
Because that was Pete Carroll versus Sean Payton. He's got maybe the divisional round contest between the Saints and the Seahawks all queued up. That was the game in which Sean Payton. was having breakfast in his hotel room in his skivvies, all freaked up that he missed the bus because he watched NFL Network's pregame coverage and re-rolled the wrong B-roll from a previous game between the Saints and the Seahawks. And he thought, wait a minute, Drew Breeze is warming up, and I'm sitting here in my hotel room having breakfast.
What the hell's going on? I need to text Marshall Falk on the set of game day morning saying, What is happening? That's a backstory to that game that. Only we know here. They also maybe have got queued up.
The 2021 Monday Night Football matchup, the last time that Sean Payton took on. A Pete Carroll team when Sean Payton, Saints behind Jameis Winston, beat Geno Smith and the Seahawks. Maybe not. Maybe they'll have the other ones racked up, including, oh, by the way, um. You want to talk about a Broncos Seahawks game that might...
Stand out. From back in the day. Uh there's a Super Bowl. That Pete Carroll won against the Denver Broncos and Peyton Manning. Smoked them.
The Bronc, here's another one for you, Raider fans. The Broncos have lost 10 straight primetime games against AFC West opponents. That's tied for the longest primetime division losing streak since realignment. The last time the Broncos won a nighttime. Game against a division opponent was when the Chargers.
First relocated from San Diego in 2017. No. And the Raiders are 0-8 in division games over the last two seasons. That's the longest active division losing streak in the NFL. That's all on the line tonight.
Broncos want to win the AFC West. They've got to win this game. You've got to win your division home games, A. B, you've got to win games that you're supposed to beat. A team that is four and a half games behind you and reeling from a close.
gutting loss just a few days ago. Gotta win that. You want to win the AFC overall? Yeah, you need to win this game. Is that Cause guess what?
Colts are in Germany. Who the heck knows what's going to happen there? But even if they win the game, they're supposed to win in 8-2. They're also. Um a team that has Just gotten Sauce Gardner, and on top of it, a week two win against you for a leverage penalty that is still resonating.
That wiped off a game-losing field goal attempt for the Colts to allow them to kick the game winner against the Denver Broncos. And you need to make sure. You keep winning if the Colts with Sauce and Gardner keep winning. And then there's the Raiders. You know Um They got to win football games.
Pete needs to get some W's and wipe some of this taste out of their mouths and start. Um Getting Getting these W's, and then there's the question of like. I mean, you got Kenny Pickett. And I know you love Gino, and Gino. If he just keeps throwing interceptions.
How do you stick with them? And that's a question to be asked. If he keeps misreading two-point conversions, as everybody on the all-22 thinks that he did, Brock Bowers was wide open. One of the two, by the way, if you look at the video. And I'm sure the film, I don't, listen, it's a quarterback-driven league.
I don't mean to pin it all on one guy. But when. We're doing the same in Miami. Tature. Mm-hmm.
With 11 interceptions, you got to look at. What's happening at the quarterback spot there? The number of times that Chip Kelly has said this year: if we could have had a dollar. For the number of times Chip Kelly in his press conferences had to say he is not calling plays for fantasy football owners of Ashton Genti, I think we'd have $10. Minimum.
Okay. We'd be able to play at least once at a $10 table. Do those still exist in Las Vegas? No, no.
Okay. No. All right. Maybe downtown.
So That's what's up. Entering week 10. That's what they stayed on Thursday night football. Let's take a break. Joe Banner is going to join us.
We'll take some phone calls as well. Joe, longtime executive in this league. What does he think of the trades the Jets made? Smart? And of course, we'll talk about his acolyte in Howie Roseman in Philadelphia.
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On the Rich Eisen Show Radio Network, along with our Disney Plus and ESPN live stream feeds. We're on ESPN Radio, presented by Progressive Insurance. Always want to get this man's take on anything that goes down in the National Football League, certainly from front office rostering and trade deadlines. Longtime executive in this league, president and general manager of multiple teams, ladies and gentlemen, Joe Banner back on the program. Good to see you, Joe.
How are you, sir? I'm great. I always love being on with you guys, so appreciate all that. Absolutely, and I appreciate you taking time to do this. All right, Joe, what did you make of the Jets Day the other day and what Darren Moogie did?
by taking two of his best young players under long-term contracts. in Sauce Gardner and Quinnen Williams and sending him to the Colts. And Dallas Cowboys, respectively, Joe. What'd you think of that? The good news is, I don't see the Jets do anything where I don't immediately think of you.
So I appreciate that.
So you were looking out for my text, kind of when it came in. You're like, okay, I saw that coming. I like it. You are a keen, astute observer. That was already established.
What'd you think of the trade? Let me give you a little background on why I look at it and then I'll give you the answer. I was at the Eagles, Handy Reid came on. Um We had spent a lot of time, I think you know by now we tend to do a lot of research wherever I am on what had led to really successful turnarounds. Like what was the real history, not what it seemed like, not what people were telling us.
What was the real history? Um And it led us to do something. I think not everybody was doing. We sat down with the roster, we watched a bunch of tape together and individually, and then we said, How many players do we have on this roster right now that could start on a team two or three years from now that has a chance to be really good? And that's kind of the base from which we're going to build.
They're sort of untouchable, even though they weren't all good players.
So that first year, we came up with a number nine. We were just looking at starters.
So, of 22 starters, we had nine players that we thought. We're young enough and good enough that they could be on the roster two to three years from now when we thought we'd be getting good. And therefore, they were very valuable to us. Because if you're trying to replace 22 players, I don't know if you can even do it. Your hit rate on the assets you have, which is really just Capriman picks, has to be so high it's almost impossible to do.
And the other thing was relevant, we did a round by round analysis of success rate.
Now, that's kind of subjective because you can define success rate as anything, you know, starting for two years, making a probe, whatever you want.
So that's a little more subjective, but that was what we did. First round picks through the round, about 50% end up being at least a quality starter for at least two years. Secondary goes down to 40, and by the time you get to the fourth or fifth round, you're around like 5 and 10% all the way to the seventh round.
So that was trying to value: like, what was the player worth? What were the draft picks worth if we got them, and so on and so forth.
So we had nine out of 22. We won five games Andy's first year. He won 10 games his second year, won a playoff game, and went to the championship game in his third year.
So I hear some people talking about, well, they weren't winning with this guy anyway. Big deal. Let's get rid of him. That's a big mistake, in my opinion. You have to, if we had to find nine more players to start.
The chances that we would have made the playoffs in year two have been really good by year three. Put it out at least a year or two, in my opinion. And I'm not even sure you can get there because you just don't have that many assets.
Now, I know you're acquiring some more assets, and that's good. It gives you a shot.
So my reaction was. They added enough Assets between the two major trades the Jets did, that it should be four picks that turn into two quality starters. For that, they traded two established quality players, in my opinion.
So And I don't know. I think they've pushed themselves well below this nine number, which we were able to recover from in two years. to try to rebuild from.
So I do think they got fair value for what they traded. And I do understand when you're rebuilding the Impulse to think we get a lot more assets, that's either caprima draft picks, that that can help us. But I would have been really hesitant. to trade players, it would say under 28 years old. In return for draft picks that I may or may not hit on.
Forget the Jets' history, that's just league-wide. And I think we should assume, given the benefit of the doubt, it's a new group, let's assume they're going to at least hit league-wide averages. It's still only going to get two players. out of those pics that they got. And they traded two players to get those probable two picks.
Maybe they can overachieve, maybe they can underachieve. But that would have caused me, if I was sitting in that seat to make a decision, be really hesitant to trade two players of that caliber at this point. A couple of follow-ups here. One of them is Um The question of whether one of them wanted to be there anymore or not. or you know beyond behind the scenes Some trust factor has already been broken.
And Sauce Gardner is that candidate, even though he mentioned today in Indianapolis that that's not the case. But I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind translating this from General Manager Speak into English, Joe. Darren Moogie. Had this to say about the sauce contract that they just signed him to in July. And then traded him just a little over 100 days later.
Hit it, please, if you don't mind. The process for doing that contract. Is a very detailed one. Credit to Nick Sabella. We had a lot of.
Discussion going through that contract process and some of the details we had to have in that contract because you never know how. the future is going to unfold. And we always wanted to be in a position to potentially trade these contracts. And credit to Nick Sabella, he did a great job on that contract, made that contract still a tradable contract. For the case that you get into a situation where the value you think is just too good to pass up.
And that happened to be the case here.
So, is that something that's just done pro forma for all contracts? Or did they?
Okay, yeah, right. You're a Jets fan. That's a very, very good clip. That's just how you want to hear them thinking about it. See, the Eagles a few years ago started, they really only made one really major change from my time there, which is the way they structure the contract and how the cap.
Hits the contracts. I used to try to write them flat so as the cap went up. That created extra room for us.
Now they're trying to maximize the number of players they can finish each year, so they postpone. Um, the cap charges, and there's arguments for both of those things, and I think they're actually doing the right thing for where we are relative to the cap.
So that's exactly like you know, we talked about Miami. Miami is stuck with tour unless they make just a massive sacrifice for. probably a year or two.
So if you're doing what he just described, that's the right way to do it. Keep your flexibility. And then if something like this comes up and you feel like it's the right value, you can do it. There's a lot of teams, if they did a contract out recently, either wouldn't or couldn't make the next move.
So I applaud the way he's thinking. That's smart thinking, that's strategic thinking. It's thinking beyond the moment.
So, I'd be encouraged if I was a Jets fan and heard somebody describing it like that. That's exactly what he should be saying. And there's a lot of general managers in the league that wouldn't be saying that.
Well, the only reason why I'm also bringing it up is, and I'm not trying to kick a hornet's nest here, but there are Jet fans, including some very young ones whose videos went viral, who fell in love with Sauce Gardner, and they're wondering why he had to go after you just re-signed him and he's going to be there forever. And then you hear, well, when we did the contract, we wanted to make sure there was language in there that we could trade him as soon as possible if the situation came up. Why would you listen? I understand due diligence, but. Unless there was any smoke.
That was already happening there. Did they do that for Garrett Wilson? Would be a follow-up? You know what I mean? Like, what's up with that, Joe?
And that's why I'm trying to see if there's, am I on to something here, or I just need to move on? I mean, what would you do? No, listen, I think what probably reflects is there was some difference of opinion. about whether to do that extension or not. And then hopefully, there's an organizational philosophy that we're going to manage our cap, at least until we're good and trying to get from good to great.
We're going to manage our cap and maintain flexibility as much as we can. Which I think a lot of the teams that are kind of copying the Eagles model are doing it too early. It's something that's worth considering doing. When you get to the point where you have a chance to be really good, compete, advance in the playoffs, it's not something that, in my opinion, makes sense when you're winning three, five, seven games a year, and the path to getting beyond that. probably because you don't have a quarterback is hard to see at the moment.
Um So they're thinking that they did this well, now they get a quarterback. It happens sometimes, but most of the time, the teams that get the first or second pick need a quarterback.
So, accumulating assets to trade with them occasionally works, but usually you gotta be the one. That was bad enough to get the first or second pick, third pick in the draft. Usually there's not more than two. Quarterbacks in the draft, and plenty of times we get two drafted, but there's early only one.
So you really got to be in the first or second pick to feel confident that history says I'm likely to pick a quarterback here that's going to be good. But I'm assuming that he's speaking in generalities, and at least until they get good, I think that's much smarter. Than the way most teams are thinking about doing contracts right now. And he understands the value of maintaining the flexibility. This is highly unusual.
Hopefully, this doesn't happen very often. But to at least be preparing for the possibility to do it by maximizing the flexibility your cap and your contracts are structured is smart. He's doing that. That's a very good thing to be doing. He should stick with that for now.
Joe Banner here on the Rich Eisen Show. All right, so there's three teams that I'm interested in hearing about. About your opinion about where they are and how they can move forward. And let's start with the Dolphins. You just referred to them, Joe, and I believe you are there in the Sunshine State.
So, what do you think their options are now? They bounce Chris Greer before the trade deadline. They trade Jalen Phillips away. Jalen Waddell is still there. You mentioned to his contract.
There's a coach who's still under contract. We don't know what the future is done. Walk me through. Read me the tea leaves of what you think the Dolphins have done and what their options are moving forward here. I'm concerned if somebody's rooting for them.
Listen, the owner really has one job. They can do more, they can be helpful in many areas, but they really have one job. They have to succeed from a fan perspective because all the fan really cares about is how many games you're going to win. And that is, he has to get two to three hires right. Depending upon your structure, you have to have a general manager, a head coach, and I think ideally a team president, all of whom are really good at their job, and then you will be able to compete with the best teams in the league.
It's interesting because Steve Ross, I know reasonably well, he's a nice guy. He's a very smart guy. He's been very successful. But he has not. Mastered the ability to hire well at the top of this organization.
Now, going back. From the time that he became the owner of the team, and that's the reason they haven't done better. I know Greer, he's a good guy, he's a hard worker, but he got nine years. We talk about some situations with people too impatient. I don't know how you justified all nine years of that.
There were a lot of mistakes made during that time, including Hiring of coaches. I think the, you know, I was with Mike briefly, we overlapped in Cleveland. The reputation he has as being an offensive mind is well deserved. I mean, I've been with Andy Reid, I've been with John Gruden, I've been with names that are probably less relevant today. Sean Payton.
A lot of the coaches that are top offensive minds now. He's as good as any of them.
So I put him in the upper echelon of offensive minds. But the job description for a coordinator and a head coach is just totally different. And if you hire a coordinator that doesn't have the abilities that differentiate the good head coaches from the good coordinators. Then you're gonna be disappointed.
So, Mike has done a, I'd say, a solid job, but not what you'd be hoping for the day you hired him. And I think it's because some of the qualities he has as head coach, or you need as head coach. Aren't the same strengths as he demonstrates when he develops his offense. Part of that should have been working with Chris and having a team-building philosophy. you know from our conversations to me you got to dominate the lines of scrimmage you got to have a good quarterback Some teams build their team.
We got to have good corners and we got to have good wide receivers. That's what the defensive are doing. To me, It's not like you can't succeed that way, but the odds of succeeding under that scenario are just not as high. I mean, we used to estimate. That the teams are consistently making the top eight in the NFL, 75% of them believed in this philosophy: you must dominate the line of scrimmage.
and about a quarter of them were building their team around things like weapons and secondary play.
So, to me, there is no real legitimate argument about what the right team building philosophy works. The Dolphins have not had that. Ever, as far as I'm concerned, they dabbled in it a little bit here and there, but they never made it like we're not going to win big until we fix this problem.
So I'm worried. It sounds like there's a real chance they keep Mike. I don't really want to take a shot at him because there are elements what he does. He's in the top group in the league. But as a head coach, he hasn't proven to me he can do all of that.
And you know, they're going to have to find a general manager, in my opinion. If they keep the head coach, it's going to be much harder to find. The people there. And, you know, listen, it's not a good roster.
Well, I mean, the Tua contract rests on top of all this. I mean, I understand about the command and control structure, and obviously that's crucial. I would never push back against you, but you know, you got to get the quarterback right. And that contract is what, in your estimation? You want to finish that sentence?
I mean, it's either I mean, it takes a massively bigger cap hit. over two years than we've ever seen, even more than what Denver did a couple of years ago. and it leaves you with no quarterback.
So, where is that? You have no quarterback, you have a head coach I don't think is quite good enough to get you where you're trying to go, and you don't have a general manager. Um, you know, ideally, you'd feel you'd have somebody who felt like, you know, what I don't think. Two is hopeless. Let's give it a year.
We're probably in the early phase of doing what we did to the Eagles, what the Jets just did. We're probably going to move. By the way, the Jets would have been doing the right thing if they had moved older players that had some value, maybe not as high.
So I think they're thinking again the right way. But young players that can be a big part of a team in two years, three years, I would not move. The Dolphins don't even have any of those people to talk about moving. They have some people that maybe get something in the middle. I mean, I saw people talking about people they could get third-round picks for that they'd be lucky if they got a fifth or sixth-round pick for.
I mean, Waddell, in my mind, is the only person they could have traded. And even there, the numbers are grossly exaggerated. But he would have real value in the trade market. They've decided not to do that.
So I don't know what they're doing. They're not acknowledging we're in a really bad place. We've got to kind of tear down the house and rebuild it. And they're not doing anything proactive that makes you think in any short period of time they can get to be really competitive, especially now that it looks like the Pages gonna be good again for a long time. I think Buffalo's gonna be good for a long time.
Maybe the Jets can get there, and then you got Miami. You know, they've got a long way to go to even have a chance to compete to win their division. Joe Banner here on the Rich Eisen Show. All right, let's talk about the Eagles. Um where where Howie did Trade for Jalen Phillips, Jair Alexander, Michael Carter, and other teams in this mix.
I mean, you saw the Colts get aggressive, and you saw Philadelphia do the usual thing, Howie did his usual thing. We all here say that if we're a general manager and we see a 215 number, we're just not answering it. You know what I mean? Like, that's the way we've been saying that he's the Obi-Wan Kenobi of this sport, making you believe the draft picks you can part with them. Um so The bottom line is, is what Why do you think the Eagles did what they did and other teams didn't?
Is there a a philosophy here that you can sh sort of cookie-cutter here for us, Joe?
Well, I don't understand why there was no competing team that wouldn't offer the same third-round pick, which is almost certainly going to be higher than the Eagles, to get this player, even on a half a season basis. You're going to mention the Eagles' philosophy for a long time is. They either, which is the case here, they already had accumulated an extra third-round pick in case they needed the flexibility. And if they didn't have one, I'm gonna tell you, they would have just taken their first-round pick, traded back four spots. They know the math.
Let's say you have the 20th pick or the 24th pick. The percentage of times you'll hit on the picks is exactly the same.
So he could take, and just making up a number, obviously, the 20th pick, trade off the 24th pick. He's replaced the third-round pick.
So he got the player for nothing because the odds of the hitting on the same. Picked in the first round at 20 or 24 or 26 and 30 is the same. I don't know why every team in the league doesn't know that. and manage the team as if that's just a fact. But as your question indicated, most teams don't.
But it was a good example, though. The Eagles have six good defensive linemen. They're used to having eight or nine.
So they're putting a defensive pass rusher as a need when nobody else in the league would look at their roster and think it's a need.
So that's where it starts. They have a team building philosophy that they're committed to, and I believe. You know, they've been winning for 30 years. The people that came through to Philadelphia, like the Sean McDermotts, John Harbaugh, Sean Payton's, Andy Reids, are all practicing a version of the same team-building philosophy. And guess what?
I just rattled off probably five of the best seven or eight teams in the whole league.
So that's why I say to me, there is no debate any longer about what's the right team-building philosophy. You know, where you are in the development and all that kind of stuff.
So the Eagles did what they do. And in that particular specific example, now the Two Corners they got is another example of what they historically done. Our philosophy was: if we get a clear-cut solution to a problem on something that's important, let's go get it. If we don't, and we literally used to use this phrase, let's throw a whole bunch of darts at it that at least one has a chance to come through.
So he acquires two corners that aren't even really playing much for two teams that have won three games or less so far this season. But there is reason to think maybe And they acquired somebody earlier in the year and they did some things in the offseason.
So I know what he's doing. He's sitting there going, you know, I'm looking at the rosters out there. I'm looking at who's available for trade. I'm looking at what I'm willing or hoping to have to not give up, like first or second round picks. You know, I think I'm better off just throwing a whole bunch of darts at this problem and hoping.
I mean, if Alexander plays anything like he did, you know, two or three years ago, which may not be in the cards, but he's feeling like, you know, if I got four of the people that could be him. Maybe just one of them will at least come through for just eight, 10, 12 games, depending on how long they play in the postseason.
So, to me, it's just very basic common sense, it is a mystery. Why more teams aren't copying some of the elements? I mean, the whole league knew Jalen Phillips was available. I mean, San Francisco didn't think it was worth maybe a third-round pick. It's probably a fairly late third-round pick, but much higher than the Eagles.
You know, Dallas, they were obviously trying to improve their pass rush. They didn't think he's worth a third-round pick, maybe because they traded the other players who, to be, you know, good pickups, but they don't really enhance dramatically their pass rush, which again is the key.
So Yeah. I just the Eagles are just consistently smart. Although, Howie, it's funny to me, I say this to you. Because I I think you probably witnessed the same thing. For the first eight years, Howie was your general manager.
He made a lot of moves, some very good, some not so good, but no matter what he did, he was criticized for it. He was just totally demonized, especially in the Philadelphia market.
Now he's kind of flipped the script, which I can't think of anybody else who's ever done that, to where he gets the benefit of the doubt on every move he makes. And he's earned that. But he also was over-criticized the first group of years when everybody was looking at the moves he was making because they weren't winning Super Bowls, they weren't advancing even that deep in the playoffs. And instead of being able to isolate the moves and make a fair judgment of him, they just lumped him with a kind of a non-football guy label. And didn't recognize it was actually proving like I was flabbergast when Jeff kind of demoted him when Chip was there.
Because it was obvious to me, at least, and I thought others that you know he had talent.
Now, would he become the best chairman of the league? You know, that's a projection, a hope. You can't know that, but it seemed like it was possible. He's got the guts, he's got the fearlessness. He has the ability to evaluate.
He's got a strong team-building philosophy.
So I have no answer to why the rest of the league seems to be sleeping on some things. I mean, Craig. He acquired Darius Slave for I think it was either the third or fourth pick. you know, five years ago and he helped them get to two Super Bowls. Where was everybody when that happened?
That wasn't. that hard to figure that Jarius Slay was worth the third or fourth round pick. I mean, the original managers aren't on the phone until they read in the paper that so-and-so may be available. Howie's talking to 31 teams all the time. All the time.
So he's never surprised by something that's coming up. He has a pretty good idea himself. He's not designating all of that. He may designate some of that, but he is constantly has a feel for what's coming up and what's possible. I love it.
I only have two minutes left, and I know this is more than a two-minute answer, Joe. But what do you think the Browns are up to? Oh god, it's very hard to establish. Listen at this point, I think they try and end up with as high a pick as they can. Um, it doesn't make any sense to me trading Pritchett and Flacco, and you know, I know that.
That the Bellinghams were upset that they traded him in the division, but why wouldn't they? That means they lose another game when they play them. Um you know, they can't Get the benefit of his talent versus the young guys. I mean, they're doing the right thing and seeing if either the young quarterbacks have what it could take, or they just have to pick somebody this year. I don't think either of them have what it takes, in my opinion.
By the way, I know there's a lot of talk about Sanders. And listen, they could lose. All five of their offensive linemen at the end of the season, I'll have to say they're not good enough. And they just had a draft. But at least in Cleveland was Covert is a great draft.
Without picking one offensive lineman, even at the end of the draft, to possibly develop, I just don't understand. I mean, that's just a way off-base team building philosophy. I mean, you know, I think Sefansky is actually a good coach. I don't think he's a great coach. I think he's a good coach, but he's had six years now.
I think Andrew Berry is a smart, hardworking, you know, good guy, but I think he's had a fair chance to really demonstrate that they could build a roster that If they fix the quarterback problem, can go a long way. I don't think they're there yet either. I think the defense is a BB plus. I don't think it's an A either. But it's a very good defense.
It's in the top, maybe third of the defenses in the league.
So I don't know. To me, they got to get back to basics. They got to make some. Front office changes, they got to get to the point where they can dominate those lines and hopefully they got high enough picked it. One of the quarterbacks that's there is their answer.
Joe Banner. I love chatting with you, man. You make me smarter. You make all of us smarter. You just spit the.
Spit what's in your heart and your mind, and we appreciate you sharing it with us. Really appreciate it. Let's do this again soon again. I appreciate you saying that. Available anytime you need me.
Love it. Ladies and gentlemen, longtime executive in the National Football League who's been there, done that, and knows all about it. Joe Banner, right here on the Rich Hawson Show. All right, we got to jump to break. Let's do it.
We're back with your phone calls: 844-204-Rich. Lots to chew on that we just got coming up.
Alright. Hey. The Rich Heisen Show, a podcast. ESPN Radio is presented by Progressive Insurance. They make the claims process easy so you can get back on the road in no time.
It's why over 43 million drivers trust Progressive. See for yourself at progressive.com. Yeah. Hey, we uh we we haven't talked about the biggest blowout of the weekend. I mean there was Out of all the Um curb stompings.
And all the blowouts. of the weekend that we didn't talk about. One of them helped kick off the week, and maybe you missed it on on Halloween night. It was my destruction of Candice Parker. And Dwight Howard on Celebrity Wheel of Fortune.
Oh, I did miss this. Oh, yeah. There it is. Yeah, that was. It's not often you're the shortest guy in the photo either.
You know what? It's really the tongue. It doesn't look great for me. By the way, two sweetheart individuals. And there I am right in the middle.
How am I in the middle with Vanna and Seacrest on the left? There you go. I dressed down a little bit. I don't know what I don't know. You got shoulder, Rich, too.
Well, I mean, they have height. They got height. Shoulder. I think you'd rather have it. They've got head and shoulders.
I have shoulder in the picture, but they have head and shoulders in terms of the. But in terms of the the vast difference that could be mentioned. It would be the final dollar amount that we won for our charities. $88,000 for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.
And I didn't even win. And either one of the Bonus rounds. Wow.
So, kind of like you lost the showcase showdown, kind of, right?
Well, you know what? Twice, like you lost both opportunities. But I'll be honest with you, TJ, it is an out-of-body experience to actually play a game show that you have spent decades watching. Trying to tell you guys.
Well, we did it on the feud, and that was an absolute bore. But I had a different approach than TJ. I showed up. All business. All business.
All business. You're all entertainment. Like, oh, let me have fun. Like, that look on my face, Daddy. I'm squeezing the hell out of that buzzer.
Yeah. And that look, it wasn't just like resting, you know, what face. I was like, I was not going to lose. I didn't show up on the wheel for the first time in my life after my brother and niece both appeared on it. Um I wasn't going to show up and get shown up by Two Hall of Fame basketball players.
I'm just not, that just wasn't going to happen. Holler at your boy. And at one point, TJ, I had to catch myself. I'm like, I'm too serious. What point in the game was that, though?
It was when I was watching Dwight spin the wheel.
Okay. And I may have said something along the lines of keep going as it approached. The bankrupt. And I thought it sounded like I wanted it to land on bankrupt, but I was. Saying, you know, and I'm like, the way my tone was, like, somebody could have thought I wanted him to bankrupt because he was.
Right next to me, I would have control of the wheel if you. Bankrupted. I mean, you wanted him to bankrupt, though, right? And I thought to myself. I need to relax.
And you even made a point to me. That it sounded like I was rooting for them. Yeah, I mean, you definitely at one point you were rooting for Candace because there was a lot of things. There was a point she was struggling with with the LeBron James Bond. Uh answered.
And I, but I was, I, I just realized I'm way too serious about this.
Well, it's not a game, Rich. I say that. I always say that. You treated, but you, you went on the price, and you're like, I'm not looking at the key. And I'm just going to dance my way off a contestant's role.
Yeah, but there's a difference. Like, you're playing hangman, and you're someone who your entire life revolves around words. They're athletes. Like. It's different.
Like, what I was doing was a game of luck. Like, I'm just guessing. Like, the words are in front of you. Like, you should have dominated that. You should have.
I mean, let's be honest. You should have. Okay. Like, magic, what was the key thing?
Well, I mean, I... Like, mine is just based on blind luck. Like, you're definitely blind. You weren't looking when you were looking for the Master Keith. The Rich Eisen Show Podcast.
Mm-hmm.
