NFL Hall of Famer Michael Irvin

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Learn more at AmericanExpress.com slash business dash gold. Amex Business Gold Card. Built for business by American Express. Ego in sports is a dirty word. We want our stars to be humble.

But what if you're in what my...

Next guest calls a hellhole. What if your culture is so broken that you need a big ego? big enough enough to pull everyone out. Before he was a Hall of Famer, he was the force of nature from the U, that's Miami University, who bought the swagger to the Dallas Cowboys and helped build. a dynasty.

He's lived the highest of highs, the lowest of lows. And he's here to tell us why, sometimes, just sometimes. A little ego is exactly what you need to win.

So I just want to welcome in my guest. My big bro. During my time down to Dallas Mavericks, Michael Irving, the The emotional, the excited, the jubilant. The I don't know. I can keep going on and on about my man Mike Horse.

What's up, man? How are you doing, brother? Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, I appreciate that. I really do. And you know how I feel about you.

You're my boy. I love you, man. I'm my brother forever. And every time, let me just tell people: every time Jim and I see each other, even when I haven't seen him in a minute, it's like. It's like we just saw each other yesterday.

It's just like, it's just like we just met at the front door of Blackberries, man. We had to get up in there. You remember those days? That was the old prime tide 21 club that Dion gave his boy Black Blackberry. And that's what y'all got up in there.

Y'all probably let us play a little bit. Y'all let the poor little Dallas Mavericks play a little bit when the Cowboys was running everything in VD. Oh, man. Come on, man. I'm so happy to be here with you, man.

I really am. Hey, I told your boy, man. Tell me about Michael. Thanks for joining us. I said, Joko, stop messing around, man.

Call me anytime. Call my peeps. They'll get it right for my boy anytime, man. You know, you, my boy, man. And I'm glad to see you doing your thing.

Thank you, brother. You know, I appreciate it, man. You know, it's interesting too because we're going to get into a lot of the business side of what you've been doing, kind of the transformation of Michael Irving, you know, from The players who You know, now, you know, well, not now, but on TV, of course, and the personality and everything you're doing, working with young men, also developing that. But, you know, you've been real vocal lately, especially with. The way the league is today, in particular with Micah Parsons, what happened and what went down in Dallas.

You know, with Jerry Jones and the Cowboys and the trade. I know you weren't happy with it, but more importantly, during your time compared to now. The leverage part of players, and you said you were disappointed that Micah didn't take full advantage of. of what he could have. How has it changed in your point of view from a guy holding out back in your day.

with leverage today and what Micah could have done a little differently in your in your opinion.

Well The only thing, you know, you can nobody can fault the outcome on either side. I mean, you honestly, every franchise is going to keep moving and every player is trying to get as much as he could, and I understand all of that. All I've been trying to point out with all of it is, okay. then get what you want out of all of it. Let's make sure.

And even... Hey, Michael's agent did a great job. But from what I understood, Michael told his agent he wanted to be in Dallas. Then I'm saying if I gave you those instructions. Then get me my money in Dallas.

You know what I'm saying? Get me the because I wanted to have an afterlife. and do things after life. I love Michael. I love Michael.

His mom was still at the Cowboys game. the other day. His family lives here in Dallas, and they're going to live here in Dallas for the rest of their lives.

So, you know, should I leave a million dollars here on the table to have? That situation over Playing in another city while my whole family is going to live and stay in that other city that I used to be in. You understand what I'm saying? I'm saying, When everybody's trying to Show how great they are. The true level of your greatness is delivering what the man asked for.

That's all I'm saying. Make sure you take control of your future and get what you want. I was the first person Michael Parsons met. when he was at the draft. I was broadcasting the draft.

You know the first thing he said to me when he saw me when he was walking down, he said, I'm going to be just like you. I said, what? What? I swear to you, that's his first day. I'm going to be just like you're going to be just like you.

I really didn't even know who he was. You know, I was studying wide receivers in the draft, but I heard about them and everything. And then you see his mom and all of them had on blue. They were all, they wanted to be a cowboy. And you got that and you became, you got him, became a great play.

I'm just saying, get what you want out of life, man. You're going to get all the money, no matter where it is. Get what you wanted if you wanted to be here somehow. they should have put egos aside. And gave him what he wanted.

Yeah, no, but the ego, you talked about this, the goals both ways: it's the ego on Jerry's side. With regards to maybe not giving what he wanted fully to what Michael wanted, then there were eagles on the other side.

Now, Michael ended up getting the contract he wanted. He got to Green Bay. It's not like he went to Jacksonville somewhere that is not known for winning and he doesn't have a chance to compete. It's not about that. But, Jim, it's deeper than this.

Deeper than this. It's deeper than this. It's the same thing. What we're just talking about: it's what I tell young men. Like, I talk to kids, I talk to kids.

Is going to college. I'm at the University of Miami. I'm going to college. And they live in Miami. Their whole family ain't lying to me.

And I said, okay. What do you want out of this? Do you want four years or 40 years out of it? Why are you asking me, do you wanna play at Miami, Universal Miami? Or do you want to go to West Virginia?

Your family is in Miami. You if you got an opportunity in a choice. Given all things. You be what you're going to be forever.

So you don't just get the four years in school, you get the 40 after that. You don't just get the four, you don't get the 8, 10 years in Green Bay, you get the 50 years after that in Dallas. You get all of it like I got all of it. I'm just trying to tell you. You see what I mean?

It's bigger than the money. It's bigger than just the money since we're all gonna make a lot of money. No, you know, I get that too, because one of the best decisions I ever made was. Going to Ohio State.

Well, I'm from Ohio. I could have gone to any other college, but. In the short term, it paid off with us being successful. Long term, being a Buckeye, it's paid off.

So I get my family.

So when they walk around, they got some clout. Yeah. And you got some family. Yeah. No, I see what I mean.

I tell the kids, your family ain't going to West Virginia. You're going to get four years in that debt. They ain't going to never get on the plane and go back to West Virginia. You know what I mean? And West Virginia might be a nice place.

I'm just using it as an example. I'm just using it as an example, man. When I graduated, From University of Miami. I graduated after my junior year. I could have played another year.

I did that so I can control my afterlife. When Green Bay called me with the seventh pick in the NFL draft, you heard Sterling Sharp talked about it. Oh, Green Bay. They called me. They had to call me because I was a junior graduating.

That means if you drafted me and I didn't want to play for you, I can drop my class. I can drop a class. Go back to summer school, pick that class back up, graduate, and you lose a draft pick. And then I apply for a supplemental draft.

So when they call, I ain't got nothing against Green Bay. I just told them no way. No, no way, no way. Because, because I wanted the afterlife and I wanted a. A LA team a New York team are the biggest brand.

In sports, the Dallas Cowboys. And I landed here. I was directed. And I thought Michael was directed. And I wish they would have kept him in his direction.

That's all I'm saying. I'm just, maybe it's me personally. No, no, no, no, I get it.

So when you were playing, when you were playing, he had a $200 million podcast right here. I only hear about it. $200 million.

Well, if he'd have stayed in Dallas, okay Because every time Michael said something. When we I come on the show, the first thing they put up is Michael Parson said this on his podcast.

Okay. I'll get you. That's not the case. He can get one in Green Bay, but it's not the case. But it ain't going to be valuable.

We ain't going to wake up every show and say, Michael Parsons said this on his podcast. Ain't nobody on. You see what I'm saying? That's valuable. That's money.

That is money. I'm trying to educate my people, our people, all people. Oh, money is not just Green, the tender, not just that piece of paper that they tender. It's your eye gate, it's your ear gate, it's attention in this. We just got to get educated.

But that's the part of it, too. Being young, too, back in college. I knew what people were telling me about the long term because they say if you're a buck height, long term is going to pay dividends at 18, 19 years old. But I got an idea. When you get in the league, you got to know some of these franchises are.

You know, for life, even if you may not be there your entire career. you know you can come back to it. I think, and I can't talk for Mike, because you've been around it. Again, the ego part of not kind of getting what you want. How you want it, and maybe the conversations that he had with Jerry.

Again, I say people gotta be careful, and you know this, Mike. Right. Most intimate conversation that you have with an owner. People don't have so it could have been some promises made in there that were broken That were not adhered to, that also led to that decision for him to kind of. You know, force his hand to get out of Dallas.

True, right? Ego got in the way, and then words were said. And my concerns, and I talked about it on my locker room podcast. I said, you know. Michael is like Michael.

Micah is a lot like Michael. were very emotional. Great emotional, emotional. You want all of that emotions working for you. And when I saw him and Jerry talking, I was like, this is great.

This is great. This is great. But then all of a sudden, they stopped talking. They stopped talking. I guess the agent said to Michael, don't talk to Jerry anymore.

Don't call him anymore. And then I started worrying because now you're going to take everything people are saying. And what we were talking about prior to coming on is Now it's different. Remember, it used to just be CBS, NBC, and ABC. you had three networks that kind of gave us that gave us all the information Now, now it's not like that anymore.

You get what everybody's saying all the time.

So now, Micah. who's an emotional person like me. is listening to all the mess all the time. and they're getting farther and farther and farther and farther apart and they and then it gets to a place where We're in God. you know Jerry said something to me on the podcast.

He says, Michael, why don't you go get Michael and bring him in here? And I kind of blew that off. But when I look back, I'm vexed. that I didn't do it. You didn't do it.

Because I thought he was yelling. It's got a situation.

So listen, when you were playing in this different, because here's the dynamic. How does it affect the team? We always say it as players. You got to get your money, right? But when you were playing, was there somebody in the locker room?

You don't have to mention the name, but give me an example if it was. That Contract was up, ready to play. Either they held out or something happened. And if it happened, how did you as a leader? have to handle that situation to kind of keep the team together.

Especially when it's important to play.

Well, right.

Well, Emmett, Emmett, we're coming off winning the Super Bowl. Emmett missed the first two games. He's right. Of the first Super Bowl? Of that season.

After we won the first Super Bowl. The next year, we missed the first two games of that season. And yeah, and you're trying to get together. Everybody work goes in and says, yeah, we'll win this game. We're going to be okay.

Curvin Richards can get it done. And you try to get it done, even though we did not get it done.

Sooner, a lady in mind goes, why are we having to do this? And that's what Charles Haley said: why we got to hope. That we got somebody to get it done.

Well, somebody at home that we know can get it done. Let's just get it signed. But and then they did, they got the deal done. You know, Jerry got the deal done. with Emmett, but we all went in to talk to Jared.

to get that deal done. And that's why I say I'm vexed that I did not. Hear what he was saying. I just didn't think it was that bad. But, you know.

I'm happy for Michael. I really am. I'm happy for him. I mean, he got his money. He got good money, and that's what he needed.

But he was going to always get good money, you know? And the reality is. Everybody keeps saying it's 47 million. That's the new money. When they said 4 to 7 million a year, new money, that means next year.

That's the average. Right now for the five years Total is 42. million dollar average and jerry i think had 40.5 already on the table I'm saying. That gap ain't that big while you left. and absolute state taxes.

And what you can make up on the back end by being a cowboy and being there, business later on, what you talked about before. Listen, so within that tooth, and it's interesting because of the cowboys and the dynasty, and I love talking about this. I want you to take me in kind of. From your perspective You know, we saw the wins, we saw the championships, but You said, and this is your quote, that You know That for you, championships are forged when it becomes a football family. It is a two-part question here.

Because take me into, I think it was a time you were at the White House when you knew the bomb was real.

Okay, you knew the bomb was real. That was then. But in today's world, because of free agency, it's harder to build that. Family atmosphere.

So the first one, take me through. that thought process, but how it relates in today's world.

Well, okay, okay. Like even. though and coming out Through all love. But let me tell you where that statement comes from. Let me break down why I said football teams and football organizations.

don't win championships. Only football families. win tampy jobs. Because the role to a championship. It's never paved smoothly.

It's only paved with peace. in the Alex. This is the whole quote I give a whole statement I say and understand. Most people can handle the peaks. But when they hit the valley, we must determine.

Because in the valley, football teams and football organizations start pointing fingers and fall apart. but in the valley of football family comes closer together. and we come out better and you go win championships. Why do you come closer together? Why do you come out better?

Because of all of these moments we had off the field together. You see what I'm saying? That got us to the White House. That got us out on Thursday night or every Sunday night after a game. We're all going to eat together because we're going to celebrate what we just did together.

And our celebration. Is also preparation for next week. You see what I'm saying? This is how you build a championship. That time together, that time together.

So when I'm eating with Big E on that Sunday after we just beat. Uh Detroit. I'm sitting here and I know I got big, I got Reggie White coming in three weeks. Hey, we're taking a bite of having a drink. We're happy right now.

Yeah, we're celebrating the win, but I'm saying, We got Reggie White coming up in three weeks. What you gonna do here? What you gonna do?

So I prepared them. I prepared them. Are we in the White House with some girls hanging out, having drinks, you know? Big problem. In two weeks, what you gonna do?

You know what I'm saying? So you're preparing the mind. I tell people. In order to win championship, all we have to do, one man to another. is make a pause.

I will get my job done today. As a football team and a leader, I got to make sure we're having moments to make that promise to each other. And that is having that dinner. You may get crazy, say, oh, they're crazy, but it was at the White House. Wherever we are together is the moment to make that promise.

There is no such thing. As individual isolated success in football. This is why the promise is so important. In basketball, Jim, I can see you take that rebound off one board. Drug down how your back go.

shoot a three or dunk it on the other rim. That's called individual isolated success. Ain't nobody helping you did that. That was just you and you. Even in baseball, somebody can stand at home play to slap that off.

Bam. That's individual isolated success all by themselves. In golf, same thing. Drop that button. Doesn't exist in football.

doesn't exist in football.

So you gotta become a family. In football, they win championships because it's too hard. do it. As the organization, that's a deep long we're getting ready. No, no, no, but it's good because you talked about this: listen, and it's.

Because it really is a team sport. In football, I grew up, that was my favorite sport. I love it, because it's so many parts that are moving that are dependent on each other in order to be successful, but it goes the other way. They're not moving the same way, you're not going to win.

So, you said two key things. your leadership, but the peaks and valleys. We know that you've been through a lot of stuff, Mike, through your career. As a leader, you're talking about winning and forging, and they got to hear your voice, and they got to believe in you. Was there take me to the lowest moment that you We know some other stuff that you talked about.

Was there a point in your career where it was the lowest moment you had to sit back and. Kind of internalize it that you haven't shared. But at being a leader, you knew you had to get through it because your team. dependent on you. You know, a couple of things that come to mind.

What when you when you ask that question, you know Uh I remember at first I couldn't physically just get it done. And I was coming back off a knee injury. It's like my third year. And we're trying to build. We're trying to build.

I'm coming off my knee injury and I've been working so hard at ACL. And and oh my god, man, we were in We're in La Jolla. We're practicing, I think, against the Chargers. And and do Gilbert. Gilbert played cornerback.

Oh, man, I'm getting emotional thinking about it. Gilbert gets up. I'm thinking I'm healthy. I'm thinking I'm better. I want to get back into practice.

I got this leadership. I got it. Let's go. we get into practice man and i said let's go we're gonna go one-on-one i'm ready i'm back Let's go. Man, I get up on the line, man, Gilbert.

This dude, it's a bonus. Just jams me. To the ground. Two. Yeah.

I was like, oh shit. I said, oh, I said, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let's go. Let's score again. Let's go again, right? Right.

Let's go again. Let's go again. Let's go get up. You damn messing that Then Then Then I tried to run around. He knocked the ball down.

I was so hot, though. Having a bad day, partner. Oh, I got so bad. I wanted to fight the man. Turned into This turned into me wanting to fight the whole damn team.

And then When my team looked at me and didn't want to go fight with me, I wanted to fight them. Like, what kind of, do you, you know what I'm saying? It was, it was that kind of, I just couldn't do it. I wasn't physically able to do it. I was psyching myself out that I was ready to do it, but I was physically able to do it, man.

And I was ready to fight. Everybody wanted everybody to fight with me, you know. It was because I felt like. I don't know. I just want them to go with me.

Like, let's go.

Okay. If they go whoop our ass, we're going to whoop some ass. You feel what I'm saying? Let's go. Somebody's going to get a piece of it up.

Right. But that was the mentality. That was the mentality. Jim, on the other side, though, I give you this. That that I knew It was me growling leadership.

I wanted them to see how much it meant to me. Even though I wasn't physically able to do it, I was ready to fight and die for it. As you know, managing maintenance, repair, and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Granger has your back. From professional grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery.

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Now, on the other side, on the other side, was after all of that stuff went down in the hotel room. And so soon after we had won a Super Bowl that Super Bowl 30 and March, because that's in February, and March around my birthday. And March around my birthday is when it went down. Everything went in the hotel. But that's not when the problem started.

When the police came that night at the hotel, they sent me home. and just arrested. The girl, because everything was in her name. Three months later, A new DA came on. and he got that case and opened it back up.

So, you know, it's March, April, May, June. May he open the case like late April and June. And then I, you know, then everything started coming back out. When I got back on the field, After all of that. Things change.

I never felt. Like I was quite the same leader. You know what I mean? Because I had been holding men accountable. on everything and then I felt like for some reason that just, well, I just felt like.

How can I hold them accountable if I went through all of that? And you know what I mean? That's not me being a kid. But did you back off personality? I didn't, because on the outside, we didn't see it.

We didn't see Michael Irvin back off personality. I was trying not to. I was trying, but I felt that. You know what I mean. And once the thought hit my brain, it was...

It was, it was tough. You gotta understand, like I study things like this. You can study the power of the mind and how things work. And your brain's like a magnet. Everything that floats in this ether.

This is ether. All this thing around us. We can see, touch, smell, taste. You know how powerful this ether is? Think about this.

If I wanted to talk to someone in Germany, I'll put. Hello. And in Germany right now, they said, hello, right now, right now, right back. That means... All of my speaking is a vibration of sound that floats in this ether.

And it and my hello can bounce off this device. In this detail. It being Germany right now. understand how powerful this is and it's any positive thoughts that anybody up thought is floating in the ether. And every negative thought is floating in the ether.

Your brain is a magnet. What are you pulling down? You see, once I started. thinking that. Then I started pulling more of that down.

The negative for all indeed samely. And And it affected me. It affected me greatly. I tell you what, you know, my third year when I got hurt. And I tore my ankle up and I didn't come back as the same player.

I thought it affected my leadership too, because One, I wasn't able to perform at the same level, so I didn't have the same kind of voice, even though they respected all the hard work. But it was a difference, and I could feel it. I put more onus on myself because I was so used to being this guy that could go out and lead not just by voice, but by action because of my injury. I couldn't, I was a different player. And I could feel it from my teammates that they saw I was a different player.

And in my mind, I'm like, okay. Dang, am I hurting the team more than helping them? In that situation. And that's a tough and you talk about the energy. And it's hard to get out of it.

It's hard to get out of it. It's hard. That's what that's what I'm talking about because you keep pulling down more thoughts, everything, everything. Man, it's hard to get out of it. And you have to try to change that frequency.

Everybody. Whenever you're, man, whenever you're going through stuff like that, you got to try to change the frequency or you're just going to pull down more of it and more of it and more of it. And then you go on it, you know, you go from feeling bad to staying in the bed to depression to almost suicide. Look at it. It just clocks backwards.

So, so yeah, I'm always trying to laugh. I'm always trying to have a good time, Joe, because I'm trying to change that frequency. You see what I'm saying? Got you. But you've been through, and again, you get through that, and then you've been very open.

It's a great transition in this. And Kind of dealing with your wife and the Alzheimer's and everything that she has to deal with, and then you. You know, you have to be the support. You have to be the rock. But, you know, at times you got to be.

I know that affects you emotionally, because you already said you're an emotional. you know, person. But Here is a couple things. You've been a caregiver for years. How has that fight kind of changed the definition?

Again, we're talking about the ether. a strength for you. You're known as the playmaker. But now you're a playmaker on a different kind of field over here. Yeah, but I've watched my wife man show me um You know, an uncanny kind of a room.

I love, you know, with what I put it through. and what she endured and then the way she handled it. You know, my wife's never been on social media. She's never had any social media. never wanted to be in front of any cameras and anything you know she just She's just one of those godly women that just wanted to be my wife.

You know what I mean? And even when I was, when she should have gotten up and gotten out and got out of here or whatever, she would always say, God has told me I am your wife. I'm not going anywhere.

So, you know, I will always honor her no matter what. And she didn't want anybody to know about this either, guys. Um Yeah, because we had watched my mom. And we have wide trim on. We built right here in this house.

We have porters because we're. in Miami, University of Miami. We all used to drive in the back. over South Miami and see the big houses and dream about the houses. We were going to get.

And then we're going to build a house. We're going to build quarters for our mothers because the mothers, poor mother-in-law sweet.

So we built quarters. And her mom died.

So yeah, so we always talk about it, man. And we had her mom died here. right here and she watched My mom from Alzheimer's, her mom's from all-timers. And when she first got sick, Jim. It's she we were forty nine, it's about forty nine, it's just ten years ago.

You know, and we thought it was menopause. You know, for about the first year, going through the doctor and thinking it's menopause, but then we find out it's early onset. And that's when she was like, just don't tell anybody. I don't want anybody to know. She just didn't want anybody to know.

Right. But we had some family issues and And it got out. That is strong because, and I think you made a great point, too. You said your humility. Because you basically, I'm going to quote you, you said that you confessed everything to her, hoping that she'd fight.

Right. So you could walk away, but instead she said, I'm your wife. Dude, you got to handle that with the man upstairs, huh? I'm coming home. I'm coming home now.

All of this stuff at the hotel is breaking everywhere. I'm like, oh, God, I gotta walk in the house. Man, I gotta get, you know, I'm coming up with all kinds of arguments, all kinds of things, and really thinking when we get into this argument, I'm gonna just bust back out the door and get back to it. You see what I mean? I'm really clocking the mind.

Man, when I walked in, when I get. Before I even got in the house, that's what she said. She said, Hey, she said. Don't don't don't say a word to me. God has told me, I am their wife, and I am not going yet.

She said, but you have to make your peace with God. And dude. I'd much rather have a fight. You gotta face reality of what it really is, right? She put the fight between me and me.

Mm-hmm. Between me and me. She said, I'm gonna get out of the way. And she put the fight between me and me, man. Oh, man.

Yeah, that broke me. That broke. That hurt me. What was the result of that going through that? Because we see that Michael Irvin today.

We see how you've been able to handle different situations with a smile on your face, even when you're accused of something, even when something goes on, it's the Michael Irvin that's still positive. And how much is that a direct reflection of what that conversation? And that experience was all about. But but you know and that's how we have always been you know for years after she got sick. You know, I w uh Sundays I would still we would still go to Go to the Potter's house.

And I love Bishop Jakes for this. I love him for this. And the church knew. because they would assist me in getting her into church. You know, they would have a lady there and we would drive.

And They would help, she would help, because if she had to go to the bathroom, you know, help her get to the bathroom, but then get us. Get us in the front, get us out front so we can get the service. The only time my wife. Would. Have a moment, you know, and It's when we were at service and Like when they're singing sometimes.

Like when they're singing spiritual music, you could. You could. You could see her in there, you know, at some time, so. You know, so I would always try to make sure I go on Sundays, go to church with it, but. Then it just then got even too difficult.

to do that but but You know, we we had to. about five years ago, you know. Two per five is I'm sorry, I used to go there. Mm no. I mean But it was, yeah.

That was Yeah. Probably last time really you could See her in there. Mm. Powerful man. But it would only be like in service.

I would be sitting in that gym like, dang. just you know like you go to certain church and people you feel god you feel god and all of that and everybody but But when I when she just she did and they're singing and she started them.

Now when he started getting to the sermon, but when he singing, it was just, yeah, that was beautiful. That was beautiful on a lot of levels. You know what I mean? The seed, the spirit. still talking to her like that and she's still getting joy even in that situation.

Yeah, it it's it's And thank you for sharing that too, because I know it's difficult in those situations to relive and kind of go back through. When someone you love is dealing with the health issues in this powerful And as much Gravitas and connections you have not to be able to step in and say, I got it. I'm going to make sure it's better. That's a challenge. all in itself too, because She has to deal with her own battle as you have to deal with yours.

And as much as you want to give and give back and help. No, let's say physically, but you're there mentally. With me, don't jump. Like, with that situation and. And with her, you know, my whole thing was: I just wanted.

Two You know Blade. And God has blessed us. And And I've worked hard. Um And I want her to be able to enjoy. But we worked for it.

And the hard part is. seeing her like that without you know and not knowing but not you know i i just think it's a horrible disease You know These are mothers. to spend their whole life. Trying to take your their kids. And in the end.

they won't even be able to recognize. The kids. I just think it's a horrible, horrible disease. And you know, there's so many families dealing with it.

So many families dealing with it.

So many mothers. you know or fathers too i mean just so many people dealing with it but But that's just horrific to me. Especially, you know, because moms, they do everything for the kids. Everything. That's all.

That's all she wanted. Everything was for the kids. Make sure the kids were good. And then in the end, you can't recognize the kid that you've done everything for. I just think that's a.

A vicious disease. That with that, too, in your travels, and once you kind of just came to the forefront of what the family was dealing with. Was it a connection with some other people that you didn't even know? That were dealing with the same thing that kind of helped you walk through this transition? Bruh.

It's interesting because, you know, as a spiritual man, that's what the word says, you know, spiritually. It says, confess one ye to another, pray ye one for the other. In this we shall find healing. Because it tells us. to share our journeys.

And sharing our journeys, we'll see the strengthening places. We see where God has helped you and everything. We go to the Bible 2,000 years ago, read that. Instead of sharing now, reading this, because he's still writing the Bible.

So that's why, yeah, there are people here on Alzheimer's Association reached out to me and you started, you know, and that's how you say, oh, okay. A lot of people dealing with this. You know, and even.

Something good may come out of this finding out.

Now, listen, I was vexed even when people found out because, you know. I was uh Yeah. You know, there are things that you go through with your mate. Yeah. That in those moments you and her may have shared or you you know what I mean you want to hold that true and it means something You know it means something she didn't want anyone to know And for eight, nine years, I was able to hold on to that until that situation.

happen and And then somebody else put it out. but but i was upset that it had gotten out but then when i get the response And how many people saying, thank you, Michael, this really helped me. Then you say, okay, maybe there's another side to it. You know, and you try to pull towards that side and say, okay, then maybe you did some good, even opening up, sharing about it. Yeah, you know, going through that too, you got a brother.

Excuse me, and Deion Sanders, who you guys both support each other when you went through your stuff. He was there for you. He goes through his health issues, you there for him. How has that bond? We know you brothers, but y'all, I mean, this is a different kind of thing right here with you and Dion.

Florida State, Florida, but it don't matter. It's just a different thing.

Well, we're boys, period. That's how I got him here, too, right? Because you remember now he had been in Atlanta and then it was San Francisco, right, right? And I knew on the field, he had a fight with Rising when they went and played each other. And then, you know, I heard some things that went down in San Francisco between him and Jerry.

And then when I called him, I said, hey, man, I don't know why you do come over here, play with me, man. You know, them other, them, them Negroes ain't from Florida. What you playing with Rising and Rice for anyway, man? You know, so at Dion and I, you know, we met way back, we were in school and everything, man.

So, so having an opportunity to get with him and play together with him, and I do love him, man. I love him.

so much because i'm older than dm But I call him my little big brother because Deion, Deion is that straight lady dude, that straight dude. You know, he's a cool little dude, but Deion. Wait, wait, wait, wait, back up, back up.

So you're talking about the straight. Come on, this prime, but he said it's prime time over here. Then it's Deion Sanders.

So Deion is the straight one. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. All of it. Dion or crime ain't never drink. On shoe, I ain't gonna hang around with nobody there but that dude, but he's gonna go around with me.

You know, there's always one, right, right, right, right. But but he's so straight with it, and I honor him on that, man. You know, it's so funny. It's so funny. uh dill green dude like like It's crazy how many dudes.

That you competed against, that you really become such great friends with now. Like, Dion's my best friend, but I love Daryl, I love Aeneas Williams, you know, all of these dudes. That I compete against. It's like you get this mutual respect for each other. That'll last forever.

You know what I mean? Every year I see them dudes at the Hall of Fame. Man, you know, it's just great things, man. It's great thing. Cause we knew what it took.

We knew what we put into it. We knew what it was like going up against each other. And it just makes you brothers forever, man. But I love Dion, man. Deion came over here one time when I was going through all of that, man.

I'll share this with you, dude. And I'm wilding out one night. Went out all night and coming back home when we started getting back out there. And Dion, when I got ready to pull back out, Dion was in the driveway. That's all stopped, man.

He's an old man, he's a dude. What's up, man? What you doing, man? I said, what do you mean? I'm just going this.

No, we ain't going nowhere, man. We're going to sit right here. I made a joker bold up, ready to fight. We ain't going nowhere right now, you know, and keep me here. And so that's a brother.

You know, it's a brother that's going to come and tell you what you need to know when you need to know it.

Now, hey, you're wilding. We'll stop this right now. You're wilding, you know what I mean? And if you want to get back out here wilding, you're going to have to do it over my dead body. We're going to swear right here.

You know what I'm saying? So, so I'll always appreciate him for that. No, no, he's, and it's, it's amazing, too. Again, the persona. Part of it, how you see Dion, especially those that grew up in the era with Dion.

You think one thing, but he's. told us over the years. That's one part of who I am. But this is the main part who what you're talking about right there. And I'm sure he's done that for other people too with regards to being a fault of reason.

Right, and I don't know why we do this as people. And why we think somebody with personality Oh, that means they're selfish, only care about themselves. You know, I don't always exuberant play. People think sometimes it's not just about, oh, I'm doing this to make you look bad. I do what I do to bring the best out of me.

You know, when I play hiked. I kids first down, first down. That's not, I'm not just trying, I'm not trying to step on you. I'm trying to bring the best out of me. What brings the best out of you?

So, Dion, the prime time, that's what brings the best out of him. He envisioned half stepping down the sideline to say he's doing it against you. No, he's doing it for him. You see what I'm saying? So, so we like to think that somebody with that kind of cash, flash, and dash is selfish, but he's totally not that.

And I'm talking about. Been doing this forever. when he was playing. When he's playing, he would go get kids that live in some place. I don't know where, I don't know where from.

I come over to his house. He got these kids. I said, who are these? Are these my kids? I'm gonna get it.

And this took me these kids from, man. You over here, man. He pulled this kid from somewhere, this kid, and put them in a better school to give them opportunities to go play ball, to go get a scholarship. He's been doing this. Always.

I mean, just they, I don't even. I said, how did these people give you this? How did it happen? He literally have him living with him, man.

So, what he's doing, he's walking out his destiny, dude. He was doing it when he was playing. When he was playing, he was doing it, helping kids get there. And now he gets to going to it.

So yeah, that's why my heart was broken. on on draft day. I know what he's put into all it. I know what he's put into it. But they're built for it, though.

I mean, you know, it may not have happened the way they want it. But they're built for it long term. And they turn it into something. They turn that mess into some form of greatness, some kind of way, is what I say. Then, no doubt.

So, listen.

So, because you talked about relationship, I got a couple things I want to get a real quick, rapid questions for you right now.

Okay, you ready? I want to talk.

So, toughest defensive back. Then we ain't talking about Deion, because we already said it. that you had to play against. No, that's a lot in there, man. Meh.

Toughest, I'll go Aeneas Williams. I beat him down all the time and he kept showing back up. He's a Hall of Famer. I mean, we won a lot of games against him, but boy, he kept showing back up. And then my wife and I, my wife and I, we would be over at Red Lobster.

This was early in I grew up at Red Lobster, early offseason. And here come Aeneas Williams walking in. I was like, dude, I said, baby, I've been beating this joke for God niggas. Keep lining up. Keep lining up, man.

He was strong, man. He was physical, man. That's my dog, man. He's a fighter, man. He's a fighter.

And I respect that. I know how it was hitting across his head. It should have been some files, some flags thrown, and everything. And he just kept showing right back up, like Mike ain't going nowhere.

So I respect that. All right. On the 90s championship teams, who was probably. maybe the most underrated player. On those teams.

I say to this day, Eric Williams is the most underrated player in the history of the International Football League. I don't care what you should say. He should have been in the Hall of Fame. He should have been a first ballot Hall of Famer for what he did. And Eric Williams is the one that said, Reggie White.

No more. He was the one when you go back, Rich White was throwing 300 pounders across the football field. Go look at the film until Big E, Eric Williams got in the league and said, no more. Gotcha.

So, okay, one word to describe. Uh Jimmy Johnson. Yeah. A miracle. No.

Okay, same thing, one word to describe Jerry Jones. There's a miracle to me. A different miracle. Let me tell you something. Jimmy's a miracle because Jimmy took all of us kids that grew up in the ghettos of Florida.

And he brought us in. And when we were at Miami, the one thing he'd make us all do every Thursday night. Right. We meet. He bring us some whoppers or Big Macs and stuff.

and we could not talk football. We can only talk about what we're going to do in our lives. Beyond football. We couldn't talk for puck. because we didn't have anybody.

in our homes that model Any kind of a plant.

So Jamie would bring us in every Thursday night. and make us meet. And I look around now and see all the dudes, some of the dudes that were in the room and still having success in life. That's why I call him miracle. That means he's a miracle on all of our journeys.

Because if he didn't give us those moments, we wouldn't be doing what we're doing right now.

Now, Jerry's a miracle. For the National Football League. Remember when the league was about to start saying, the networks, those networks we talked about, came to the league and said, you saw it in the documentary. we're not making enough money we need to cut back on that. And Jerry said, no, the rest of the owners.

wanted to give CBS. A break. Terry said no and brought in Fox, you see, and now. This is the healthy league. It's business-wise.

They just got $150 billion. That means all of us, everybody wins in that deal. I don't know that the league would have been what it is today had it not been for the miracle, Jerry. What I loved out of that documentary about Jerry was. I didn't know.

What I learned out of it, I didn't know that his college thesis was on the broken system. Of the NFL. That means you were in college. Thinking about that. Already thinking about that.

So, people can say this. I say this about Jerry Jones. You may disagree with him about it. From a general management perspective, but the owner part, the ownership part of it. It's the best that Pebby ever did it.

Yeah, hands down from the business side. Yeah, that business. That business is business. And I appreciate that because I still do business with them. You know what I mean?

And I know that's one of the things. I know Michael wanted that. Michael wanted to have that relationship with a guy in the Green Bay Packets, don't even have an owner. I know. Circles back to that.

Okay, so out of the three Super Bowl rings, what's your favorite one? The first is always the best. I don't care what anybody says, man. The first, and people get afraid to say that, but the first time is the first time you can't redo the first time. The other times were great, but the first time I caught that bang 8 and scored a touchdown.

I thought about all the people in that ghetto that I grew up in that said I wasn't gonna be nothing. They saw that one right there. They saw that. They saw that first one, right? They said you had all the success at the U.

Nah, this right here means something a little different. That was it, dude. You know, that kid ain't gonna never be nothing. That kid, Pearl, I'm telling you, Pearl, he ain't gonna never be nothing. That's exactly what I thought about when I wearcrossed the end.

So I hope he has listened to y'all. Take that. I'm in the Super Bowl, you know, because you dreamed about it in your front yard. And that's, man, oh my God, and you just made it happen. Nothing like that first.

Okay, so. You know the playmaker. It's the playmaker. For you. A personal blessing.

Having that moniker or a curse. Uh You know how I got it. I got it. from, I can, it's a blessing for me. It's a blessing.

Because They mention me all the time, even when they are not mentioning me.

So when they say on TV or watching or doing the game, boy, he is a playmaker. They are talking about the adjective. They know I am the noun. I am the major. You know what I'm saying?

So it works as it works. I am the so even when they don't mention Mike Werbin, they mention me. All right, so so listen, so you recently said this too about And this is a maybe not a quick carrier, but Uh you're about rush war. Of wide receivers, which are great. I mean, you mentioned Andre Johnson and Megatron and Terrell Owens.

You had Jerry Rice, yourself, of course, Andrews. There's so many. Hold on, hold on, hold on, let me get to this. You left out my boy. Who?

From the Ohio State University hands himself, which was C.C. Dog, come on, man. Chris Carter, bad man. Come on, Mike. Hey, when they gave my mouth rush more, my mouth rushed more.

No, no, no. I'm not saying he's top five, but I'm talking about being mentioned with the others. Oh, exactly. That's the one. Chris Carter definitely deserves to be in there all the way around.

Now, with pure hands, the best in the game. You ask me one person whose hands I'm going to take if I'm building a perfect receiver. As hard as it is for me to say, it is hard for me to say this.

Well be not yeah. But I will give that to Chris. It's very hard for me to say that because the dude just. You know, he has some incredible hands and he made some incredible plays, man. But when we talk about the great receivers, I always say to Jill, I said, listen, Jared Rice is the greatest.

He was on my locker room. Right. He was on my locker room. But I tell people like this: I said, Soon as you finish with that E and right, you start with that L and Mike. You see what I'm saying?

Yo, Jerry played 18 years, he got three rings. I played about nine. He got three rings.

Okay, maybe still reading all the same.

So, so, so, yeah, so it works out, but, but, but, but. I think about Punishment. And if somebody said, give me your mouth, Westmore. I'm putting Drew Pearson on my mouth. Oh, yeah, Drew, big time.

So I'm a Stillman fan. Right. Vince Juan got the hype. But it was John Starworth who was like the lynchpin for the steel. Bad man, bad man.

John Star was a bad man. John Star caught them slant routes. Lynn Swan caught them deep routes all down the steel. You know, Lynn Swan, Lynn Swan was when I was in high school. And I went to Disney World, they call it Grad Night.

And you just go to Disney, we went to Disney World. It was my first time going to Disney World. I had just got. Kicked out of the school, public school. Private school, I was at a private school now, went to grad school, man.

And they had a video of Lynn Swan making that one hand play. By the time he got lost, by the time I was in the middle. Yeah, down the side. Dude, every other kid wanted to go ride. The rocket, the space mountain.

I just kept going by that little video. Just going by that little video. He said, Mike, you're going to ride yourself. No, yo, go ahead. I just wanted to see.

I just kept seeing that play, man, of 88 making that play.

So, so, so, okay. But when you asked me about my Mount Russell, I'm going to put Drew on there for what he means to me.

Okay. For what he means to me. And let me tell you what I say while I say that. First of all, I want people to people I'm spiritual man. The number eight.

stands for new beginnings. And Drew was given 88. That's a double new.

So, so, so, Drew, this man went from undrafted. All the way to the Hall of Fame. I tell people, I measure men in distance traveled. Don't tell me about where you are. Tell me about where you started.

Let me see where you are and I shall measure you accordingly. Will you tell me you a hundred player in a camp? Not a hundred player. but a hundredth player in a camp didn't get drafted. And then you got to a team and took it to the Hall of Fame.

You created that new beginning.

So it means something to me. My father. Die. My senior year in high school.

So He had never gotten a chance to see me play football. I'm 16 I had 16 brothers and sisters and he was a roof. You know, he worked. Seven a year. 7 p.m.

Sign up. Sundown.

So so during the week. And in Little League, you know, you play, you know, he works Saturdays too. And then on Sunday, and then he's a preacher. He had to travel sometimes Saturday and preach on Sundays and everything.

So what he would always say to me. What he would always talk to me about, man, my father would always talk to me about, was. Or it's about what what it what does it take to be a man? And what is a man? and he had gotten real sick and he would He had cancer and I was a junior in high school and I had to take him back and forth.

to the doctor. And I was transferring. from a public school to a private school. My principal in the public school wouldn't sign the waiver. And then they took me according.

And they said to me, We don't think you're making a decision. for educational reasons. We think you're doing this for athletic reasons.

So high school sues me in St. Thomas Aquinas. In the lawsuit, the judge ordered that I can't play football. If I stay at St. Thomas.

But I could play if I go back. to the public school. when I've been kicked out. I'm failing or doing well, you know what I'm saying? Oh, you can play if you go back there.

So so we decided that I wasn't going to play. I'm going to stay at St. Thomas. You know, a year later, they lift it.

So I didn't play my junior year. I would just spent my whole junior year going to and from the hospital with my dad. Um My senior year. Before my first game, my dad died. My first year, you know, and he was saying, I'm so proud you made this decision, son.

You're doing the right thing. I'm going to be there for the first game, you know. But but he wasn't.

So it's from high school, and that's the first time I played wide receiver. It was my senior year in high school, the first time I played wide receiver. Before then, I was a defensive end and a tight end. St. Thomas moved to hit my senior year.

And so then. I go on to get to the NFL. My dad and I watched the Dallas Cowboys play every weekend. His favorite player. was true pierce.

Called like Problem submit, I promise you, dude. And when I got here and I got 88, it blew my mind. That blew my mind, man. I'm telling you, I was crying thinking about like, wow, every time I made a play. I can vision.

Me watching the game with my dad and how he act when Drew made like to play when Drew made the hell Mary because he always jumped up. That's how I would play. That's how I would attach. That so you know Drew holds a special spot because he motivated me he gave me to put the number on me and then he motivated me again You know what I'm saying? And he told me when he gave me the number He said don't do what I did do better And he's a great dude, man.

And he talks about it. That's where I get it from. He talks about we're not comparing one another. We're stacking our legacies on top of one another.

So we both grow up. He did what he did with it. He gave it to me. I do what I got to do with it. Dance, take it to another level.

We're stacking these things. That's what Drew Pierce.

So it's a long way to tell you how much I love Drew, but he definitely deserves to be on that Mount Rushmore on distance travel. From undrafted To Hall of Fame. That 88 deserves to be on that. And that's the beauty of it, Mike, is because it's your list.

So your impact and what these people mean to you is different. And everybody else is in. That journey you talked about. Before we get out of here, I want to say this. With everything you've been through.

If you could go back and tell that fifteen year old boy Who's eating those mayonnaise sandwiches back there in Fort Lauderdale?

Okay. about the journey ahead. What would you tell them? Yeah. Manage best you can.

what you can. But I also do this. And this is what I would Tell all of us. All of us. And do a lot of speaking, right?

And I'll title speeches sometimes because. People give me 40 minutes. And I'm trying to give them something and walk out of the next 30, 40 years.

So you come up with things to help stain the brain. Like I'll come up with how to see your way to a championship, will be a title. Yeah. A speech. And I would say to you, I'm not talking about using this divine apparatus called the iGate.

I'm talking about giving you six seeds. And if you rehearse these six C's daily, you'll end up in a championship lane.

Now, Six E's is called six points are a touchdown. But when I'm with young men and you ask me about a 14 or 15 year old man, I always say I got an extra point, see. And that extra point C is Be ye careful. I tell them, be careful. Don't have great success in any profession.

without growing maturity in your person. Because you will have some situations. You see what I mean? You're up here in your profession. but you're still down here.

in your person. that's going to bring about. The problem. You grow. Make sure you both grow.

your profession and your person so you can have sustained good. success. Let the church speak, baby. I'm just saying man. And this is why I wanted to get you on because I knew.

I know so much more of the dynamic of Michael Irving. We've all been blessed over the years to see more. of Michael not. Just one side. the beauty, the grace, the humility.

The sacrifice, the father, the mentor, the personality, all these things wrapped up. And to me, brother, like I said, congrats on everything. I know you continue to. Assist, uplift. Young man Especially that p you know, in our world of athletics, but the ones who need to be touched.

And I appreciate you just taking the time out your busy day because you got a lot going on as ESPN. You got is what it is. And that's congratulations on that. You add so much value to that. I look Cam and Mace, congratulations with that.

But all that you do, bro, and there's so much more.

So I appreciate you taking the time to come on, man. Jim, you keep doing what you're doing, Jim. All we're doing, man, is... Hey, trying to help out. You know what I mean?

Use our scars to prevent scars. You see what I'm saying? That's all we're doing, man.

So, so keep doing what you're doing, man. Keep confessing one to another and praying one for the other. That's what we all should be doing. God bless you, my brother. Back at you, bro.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, that was Michael Irvin. Raw, honest, and everything you expect from the playmaker. I appreciate him sharing his stories with us because it's so much more than just one. And who he is as a person and what he's been able to do and accomplish outside of the game of basketball. If you want to hear from more of his takes, you can catch him on It Is What It Is Show.

That's with Cam and Mace, of course. You know, great show for his platform. But also, listen, for the Jim Jackson show, please like and subscribe. to this as well. We got more great guests coming your way.

So as always, thanks again and appreciate you watching. Yo, this is important, man. Uh, my favorite Lululemon shorts, the ones you got me back in the day, I think they're called Pacebreakers. The ones with all the pockets. I just got back from vacation and I left them in my hotel room.

And dude, I need to replace these shorts. I wear them like three times a week. Could you send me the link to where you got them? Ooh, also my birthday is coming up soon.

So, anyways, thanks bro. Talk soon. Looking for your newest go-to's? Lululemon What's New Gear drops on Tuesdays. Every Tuesday, head to Lululemon.com to shop What's New Gear.