Pro Football Hall of Famer Michael Irvin

This is the Rich Eisen Show. What was it called? The Rich Eisen Show. Bo loads it up. Franklin makes the catch!

Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. True Breeze, five other guys went. Bo was kind of viewed wrongly. When Sean Payton told me I really wanted Bo Nick's next two were above all these other guys. Like, I believe that.

Earlier on the show. NFL on Fox analyst Mark Sanchez. Coming up. Pro Football Hall of Famer Michael Irvin. ESPN senior writer Seth Wickersham.

Comedian Adam Ray. And now. It's Rich Eyes Day. We got a big jam-packed hour number two on this Thursday before Labor Day weekend show. Seth Rickersham is in our green room.

He's going to come out and talk about this book. American Kings, a biography of the quarterback. Adam Ray is going to join us in the studio. We'll have some laughs an hour. Number three, your phone calls.

They're all lit. We're going to take them. 844-204-Rich is the number to dial. But right now, the Playmaker is about to join us. I know you guys have been talking, as has everybody else, about this Netflix documentary series, America's Team, The Gambler and His Cowboys.

It's available exclusively on Netflix, which means you can see it right here on Roku. Our friend, our buddy, the Hall of Famer, Michael Irvin. Michael Irvin. Give him the drop. Give him the drop, Mike.

Give him the drop right off the bat. There you go. There you go. Just for you, Michael, right? I got it.

I like it, man. Richard, how are you doing, my brother? How's everything going? I am great. How are you doing?

What's going on? And I'm doing well, Rich. I'm doing well, Rich. But listen. I miss you.

I miss the guys. I miss us. I just, I just, I really do.

Well, here's the thing, Michael. I miss us as well. And us can happen, you know, if you do your hand full of things. Answer your phone. Actually, clear out your voicemail box that's always full.

So I can't leave a message. Those are two things. Just for starters. Just for starters. Us becomes much easier to be us if those two things occur.

And you're right, Rich. And I must clarify some things now.

Now, now, you do understand the box, mailbox being full, I would love to clear it out for you. But if I clear that out, my family will call me and clear out all my money.

So I leave that box full. I wasn't thinking. See, I thought it was about me, Michael. I forgot that you have one more eye in your first and last name than I do.

So my bad. My bad. You understand, Rich. You know, when you have 16 brothers and sisters, everything that goes wrong. Your money to fix.

Your money to fix it, and they call you all the time.

So, okay, I've left that mailbox full. For the last 20 years.

So now I got it. I won't ever bring that up again. That said, I'm going to take a look at the title. I can take the text, Rich. I can take the text.

I'm talking about from the family. I think I'm going to lose my house. I can deal with that. But if I hear them on the, I don't know what to do. Your little nieces right here and they're about to put us out.

I'm going to write a check right back. You know what I'm saying?

So I said, I hate it. You know, mailbox is full.

Sorry. For a reason. For a reason. That said, I imagine your phone must be blown up over this documentary. People must be hitting you up all the time about what they're seeing from you and your story, and the Cowboys' story, and the reminiscing, and the history of this documentary is outstanding.

You must be hearing a lot about it. Yeah, I am hearing a lot about it, Rich. And you know, I was talking to somebody, they said, Mike, why are you being... Um You know, a lot of people don't want to talk about it.

So, why are you opening up and talk about it? I said, Well, first of all, it is history. And truth be told, you know, I'm saved, I'm a spiritual man. And God is all, God doesn't save you from stuff like that for you. He saves you to send you back in to get the rest of his.

You see what I'm saying?

So you gotta talk about it. to let the people know that are still in it. that you come through or that you can help them.

So that's just part of it. Part of The part of the process. Michael, again, I thought I knew everything about you or most everything about you. You had a hit put out on your life. Michael?

Really? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Tell that story if you don't mind here, please. Michael, what happened?

Well, you know. One of the girls that were in the hotel room that night, the girl Rochelle Smith, she was married to a cop. A police officer. And I didn't know that. And then I found out when she was coming over with my friend.

And yeah, I guess, you know, he couldn't. It w you know, Rich, he couldn't take it. He couldn't take it. And he said he didn't want this thing to go to trial. And he thought the only way to.

Now he cannot go to trial and shit. take me out so yeah he hired a hit man But but the hit man he hired was an undercover, thank God. And you know, we were in court and they came to get us out of court. No, they sent a documentary. He got six years.

He he got two years. He did two years. He was getting out of jail. And I was still on probation. Right.

I went to go see him secretly. Secretly, I went to go see him to apologize because I didn't know, you know, I went to apologize to him. And also You know, when I went to go see Johnny and meet with him, he was crying. Oh my God, I've never been so touched, man. He was crying.

He said, I've been praying. Like, he said, my God, I've been praying. Like, I don't know what. I can't believe you're here. God told me he was going to send you here.

And and and he's tapping on me too to go see him to apologize because I was wrong. I took a man, I took a woman out of this man's house and I was in the hotel doing things with her, a friend, things like that.

So I went to apologize to him, man. Do you know? When they found out that I went to apologize to Johnny Hernandez in jail. They called me in and they wanted to put me in jail because I was not supposed to be around any undesirables. I said to them, Let me get this right.

Let me get this right, I said to them. You do know you guys are about to let him out. I'm still on pro bait. He did two years. I'm still on probation.

You're about to let him out. I think it's smart. I will apologize. Maybe next time you know what I mean? Maybe next time it's not undercover.

And we didn't speak about that. It's not your life. That's what I, that's that, that's what I was saying.

So, so.

So, you know, then they decided, okay, you just can't do that again. You gotta let us know and all of that stuff. I, you know, but but but but I had a hell of an incredible meeting with Johnny. In jail that day. You know, I called some people and they made sure they snuck me and nobody saw me.

But yeah. I yeah, yeah, that was that was that was that was a moment. Man. And this is the sort of raw stuff that's uh in this documentary that has um kind of taken people aback a little bit. Obviously, it's years ago.

You know, the cowboys you know, the truth, you don't. You see stuff like that on as a log line for a documentary. You're like, yeah, really? I already know everything. And then you don't.

Did you learn anything? Have you learned anything in watching this documentary that you didn't know? Michael? Yeah, but the things that I learned that I didn't know that I thought was fascinating to the poor, you know, what I like to try to find out. What makes a man great, what makes a man tick in his journey?

You heard me said a million times. I measure a man in distance traveled. You know what I mean? Let me see your story. Let me hear.

And the Jerry Jones story, the Jerry to find out that Jerry Jones. College Thesis. was on the broken system of the NFL. Blue my master. Because most people, I think, think he's just some country bunkin that just landed on some money and stole the Dallas Cowboy.

To know that he was that directed and that pointed. You know, now he's always been my great friend. I love him, but I think that should say something to people. You know, this man has been doing this and been after this all his life. I thought that was fascinating.

Just fascinating. And he was ready to borrow money from Jamel Hoffa. You ready to die? You ready to die? You hated it for your dream.

That's the kind of thing that impresses me. Michael Irvin, Hall of Famer, right here, dear friend, America's team, the Gambler, and his Cowboys, available for streaming exclusively on Netflix, which means you could see it right here through the Roku portal, right here on the Rich Island show. Last time I saw this background. Uh you were on the left side of a screen on your YouTube channel. On the right side of the screen was Jerry Jones characterizing A player Who said, Please talk to my agent about the things that you and I have just negotiated.

He characterized that as being told to stick something where the sun doesn't shine. And that made some news, Michael, quite a bit. You were breaking some news. Look at you being a newsbreaker. What's happening here, Michael?

Why would Jerry take a 26-year-old saying the conversations that we had, handshake or not? uh needs to be run through my my agent as being told to stick it. up is behind, Michael. What's up with that?

Well, I don't know that that's totally laid out. Correct.

Okay, lay it out. Lay it out. Lay it out. Well, I don't know that that I don't know. Remember, Rich, I was in a conversation.

I wasn't. Even though I was interviewing Jerry, I feel this was more like a conversation, not a search for information. As an interviewer, in an interviewee, when he says something like, They told me to shut it. You know, I tried to send it to his agent. He didn't say he tried to send it to Mike.

He said I tried to send it to them. Come in, and they told me to stick it up now for me, for me, for me, for me. For me. I don't care. You know How you guys got to these numbers.

I'm going to tell you, send them on over. And see, if I'm Michael Parsons, I'm going to tell my agent. You're looking at these numbers. Because whatever, before we, if we don't sign the contract, then it's not a contract. But if you got some numbers on a paper that you believe you come to an agreement with.

Send those numbers because it smooths down my negotiation. If, say, y'all, somehow you came up with $40 million a year.

Well, we really want $43 million a year. And he said he offered it. the most guaranteed money. And so say you want. four years and and they're often five years.

So now I got a $40 million offer for five years in front of me. My goal is to get to 43 for four. If I take the deal, any kind of just send it and we'll start negotiating off of it. I'll send it red line to 40, put a 43, red line to five years, put four years, and send it back. You're in the middle of a negotiation right now.

That's all I'm saying. And I think that's what Michael Parson should have been saying and should have made sure got done. Wait a minute, we're going to take that number because now.

Now, if you don't take whatever they come up with, you want 43 and you're starting at zero.

Now you're $43 million apart. I'm just saying. Never tell the man with the bag of money, suck it up yours. I don't care what you got, send it over. That's all I said.

Well, okay. Let's take, no, no, let's take that from what you just said. Break it down. Let's put that in the gospel.

Okay, like that's gospel. If you're the representative and you're hearing that Jerry Jones has called your client into his office or you've had a conversation with the client without him there. Wouldn't you say something along the lines of That is great, but you're negotiating with me. Let's talk about it that way.

So let's just put it this way. At this point. What you just said Jerry Jones is having a difficulty getting past. He clearly told you that on your YouTube channel in the interview. Yeah.

Um Micah's representation can't get to the table if the guy who won't come to the table with them because he can't get past what you just mentioned. There's a loggerheads here, and this kid's going to have to get on a plane to Philadelphia next Wednesday or not. Yeah. Like somebody's got to tell both sides. Right.

move to each other. I don't see that.

So I Nominate No. You. Oh, no, no, no, no. Yes. Oh, yes.

I nominate you. I nominate you because you can. You can call the man with the bag, right? That you have that. And you as an 88 clubber?

can call Somebody divide that by eight. You can boil it down to the 11 clubber. That double number. I'm sure you've got his number.

So please say You know, hey. I understand you're pissed. But that's the guy with the bag. Just go in there. and say, you know, what needs to be said.

Don't you want to get paid and stay here and with the star inside of your helmet and everything? And you could talk about what that means. Decades later. You? I nominate you.

My colour. I second your nomination, Rich. You second it, TJ? I second your nomination. Right, right, right, right.

And so did Jerry nominate me. And I would, and honestly, you know, and talking with Michael and tell him, this is your life is what I'm saying. And this is what I say to Michael. Michael. This is your line.

You have to understand when you're dealing, and he does, he does. Michael's very smart. That's right. Yeah. Very smart.

But we understand. That there are two things here. People always say, oh, this is just business. It's not personal. It is personal because it's your personal money, Michael Parsons.

This is your personal money. Don't let anybody mess with you about that. And the reality is. All of it comes down to you.

Now, Micah, I will say this to Micah. Yeah, yeah. They are.

So many added benefits. to him being here in Dallas. And he knows his master plan. His master plan, Rich, I'm sure, is not just a few hundred million. Few hundred million he's gonna get from the Dallas Cowboys.

He also has a podcast that he can make another hundred million dollars on if he keeps running down the road he's running with that star on the side of his helmet. You see what I'm saying?

So, so when you're doing business on the field, like he's been doing on the field, playing great, and he's doing business off the field, like he's been doing with his podcast. You gotta make sure that both entities are going to do great. And that means you gotta play for the Dallas Cowboys to get it like you got it.

So now you go back and say, let's make this as great as we can make it. But stop talking about me leaving. And I'm upset with Jerry because I wanted to make him, like I told you guys before. our legendary player. I thought Jerry should have given him a 10-year, $450 million deal.

You know what I mean? Like they did with Patrick Mahomes and be able to go into that contract to get us some room to go and get somewhere else. You know, that's what I wanted to make Michael Parsons because he is, he's that heart, he's that soul, he's an emotional player. Rich, I think this drains him way more than it does that Prescott, a CD Lamb, because I see him a lot like me. Emotional, and he's an emotional player that gives it on the field.

So he takes it very emotionally when it goes against him. No, for sure. I agree because with Dak and CD, Michael, that felt more like a business negotiation. It's just business. This one is caught up in the.

I thought we had a handshake agreement. I bought the Dallas Cowboys in the handshake agreement, and I'm an old school guy. And I even redid the handshake agreement because he wanted more money. And then we finally agreed to something. And then he says, talk to the agent.

And the agent even doesn't want to look at the numbers, stick it out the ass or whatever you said, shove it here. And so that, and he's got to be sitting there thinking, CD and Dak didn't have to deal that. And CD didn't even show up to camp. I showed up. I'm there.

You know, they told me to be more of a leader and I showed. And so, but so to tell that 26-year-old, hey. Kind of gotta go. into Jerry and say You're sorry for reneging on the handshake deal and asking him to talk to the agent. He's probably sitting there going.

Who else in the NFL is being asked to do that, you know, with the numbers? We take these narratives and run. No, no, no. I don't think it's the same. That's not the narrative, Michael.

That's not the narrative. Yes, it is because it's kind of flawed. It's flawless. It's law. It's flawed in this sense.

It's flawed in this sense. Jerry and Michael, it's Jerry and the agent. This is where this issue is. The agent is not receiving whatever Jerry's sending. I don't care if he's sending a note from his mammy.

I'm receiving it. Because we're negotiating. Do you understand what I'm saying? You got, you gotta, I don't, if he said he had a deal. That doesn't bother me.

We're talking about the agent saying, I didn't get you to talk to me first. This has a pectin or. I'm gonna go through me first. And I'm telling you, I don't care about the egos. And I'm telling you, Michael has to tell these two.

I don't care about your egos. All I care is about my money. Honey. Go get it. That's it.

And you gotta you We're football players.

Sometimes you got to step in. And be the businessman. That's the part of it. And right now it's Michael's life, and he has to be careful with it. I would hate for Michael to go play for $24 million this year when he had $159, $60 million, whatever the number is.

I don't know if he's going to do it, Michael. I don't know.

So, what's your crystal ball?

Next Thursday, I mean, next Wednesday.

Well, so how does it work? How does it work? Wednesday morning, there'll be a bus to the charter. And he's got he's gonna be on it or not? Is that basically like how like Because that's, I'm wondering where midnight's going to be.

Last year, Dak was practicing, so he got on the plane to Cleveland. You know, that wasn't the question. CD had already come back. This time around, now the question is: the kid can play for 24 million or not. And there's going to be what?

A bus? going to the airport for the charter. And is he gonna be on it or not, right? Like, that's the question next Wednesday? That's the question.

That's it. And that's the decision he has to make. You know, that's the decision he has to make.

Okay, do I go play for 24 million? Yes. Do I stay home? Or do I tell my agent? Get your butt on a phone call or tell the jerry or go to jail.

Let's get you guys together. and let's get everybody to talk. I don't care if I go sit in Jerry's office and say, hey, Jerry. Let's call my agent together right now and start this conversation. You see what I mean?

You gotta get people back talking. Leaving these two. Not talking isn't doing any good for anybody.

Now, now. If Michael signs late, we get a chance to get Michael in late. The difference is in the Then than C D or that is You can put Micah in this first game. That, like Coach talked about, you give them a few snaps. You just hey, man, listen, go hunt.

We know you're not all the way ready, but you know how to get to the quarterback. That's number five. You know what I mean? So you just get five. Go get five.

You can tell you, well, go get five. That's all we need you to do. Don't worry about it. But, but, but, but, but somebody, somebody got to put down the ego.

Somebody gotta put down the ego. And in And since Jerry has the money in the bag. I'm not gonna wait on him to put down the ego. I'm going to help me and my agent and we're going after my money. It's you.

It's you. It's going out. It's you. Because again, you were pushing back on the narrative I was talking about. Said that Micah's got to go apologize to Jerry.

Fine, that might be too stringent a way of putting it, but you basically said Micah's got to go into the office and say, let's call the agent together, which means it's on him, which is, I guess, we're saying the same thing. I'm not sure. I ain't got to apologize. I ain't got to come apologize, guys. When I was come on in here, say, let's go, let's go.

Let's get stuck. Let's go. That's you. It's you. It's you.

Walk them in. Irv, Walker in. I'm gonna go get him. I'm gonna go walk him. Walk him in.

You walk him in. You walk him in, and then we'll hear about how Michael Irvin got this thing done for the Dallas Cowboys. And you're the conquering hero, and they're all going to come on your show. And you're Michael freaking Irvin. And, you know, and then, and then the only problem is, is if Michael wants to leave you a message, he can't on your cell phone.

That's the problem. Yeah, you can't. Don't leave any messages. Don't leave any messages. I don't need any messages.

But Rich, I am going to try, Rich. I'm going to do something. There you go. I knew it. I want to inspire you.

No, I really am. I mean, listen. Michael means too much to us. Michael means way too much to us, man. And ultimately, ultimately.

Micah is going. I know Micah's not going anywhere. He's going to be a Dallas Cowboard. And Jared isn't that he's not that crazy sooner or later. And hopefully this week, because.

You know, now we're one week away right now today. Is it? One week away tonight. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

These are the same. Michael, I love you, man. Thanks for the time. All right, buddy. Let's talk or text.

And then talk. Uh, when you're free. That's the way it works. Uh, love you. You take care of yourself.

You too, my brothers. Michael Irving, check out his YouTube channel. Please do that. And then, of course, America's team, The Gambler and His Cowboys, available. Streaming on Netflix right here on the Rich Eisen Show.

I love that line. Jerry's not that crazy. All right, we'll take a break. And in the break, I'll text Michael Irvin and test our new communication system. Seth Wickersham, come on out of the green room.

Let's talk about the biography of the quarterback. American Kings is his book. Even the safest drivers still encounter unsafe conditions, so it's important they do it in a safe vehicle. and Hyundai's offer available class executive advanced safety features to help keep you protected against the many challenges the road throws your way. Basically, in a Hyundai, you can drive as safely as possible and enjoy your journey in confidence and style.

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He's a real person. The biography of the quarterback, Seth Workerson's latest tome. Available wherever you get your books. Good to see you, sir. How are you?

I'm an actual human. Here I am. You are a human with flesh and blood, your feet and legs, and arms and legs. Amazing. Good to see you, man.

Great to see you, man. Congrats on the book. Thank you so much. Why? Why this one?

Oh man, so. Because you could write about pretty much. Anything.

Well, being a failed high school quarterback, you know, Alaska's Uncle Rico. My man. I think that maybe led to me to have an automatic curiosity about it. But I've been at ESPN 25 years, and if you cover the NFL for ESPN, you cover quarterbacks. And I still felt like there was a lot more to learn and I wanted to understand it from every point of view from high school to college to the NFL to retired Hall of Famer and um You know, I wanted to write something that for anyone who would ever play quarterback.

Mythologized it, thought about it. Um And, you know, that's what happened. And a sense of competition, Chris, did that instill a sense of competition in you that he calls himself Alaska's Uncle Rico? Where you think in your tenure in Alaska? I played Little League in Alaska, high school football in Maine.

Okay, so you're Maine's Uncle Rico? I guess. Where in Alaska are you from? Anchorage. I did not know that.

Fantastic. I lived in Ketchikan for a long time.

Okay. Did either of you see Russia from your house? Or neither of you? Do we have to go there? I'm sorry.

I can. I'm not at ESPN yet. Mm-hmm. But congrats again on this book. And it's just it is a.

It is perfectly timed. I guess any quarterback about any book about quarterbacks is perfectly timed. Certainly at the outset of an NFL playing season. Seth Wickersham is here on the program. Welcome back to the Rich Eisen Show Radio Network.

Seth Wickersham from ESPN, a biography of the quarterback American Kings is available wherever you get your books right here on the Rich Eisen Show in person. And, you know, I. I'd love to ask you about the question I always have with Kurt Warner. It's something that just recently came up as well with the fact that Dylan Gabriel is now the second string quarterback in Cleveland. Shadore Sanders is third.

How in the world do you develop? A quarterback. In this day and age, in the National Football League, certainly if he is not getting any reps. As a starter, how does that happen? I can't.

And I think that, like, and Kurt helped me with the book, and we've talked a lot about this. And I mean, he's so smart. Yeah. And he's one of the few great quarterbacks who can talk about great quarterbacking. He thinks about it at a really elevated and elite level.

And I think that, like, There are few good and great quarterbacks as we know. And I almost think there are fewer good and great coaches. And what you have is a ton of quarterbacks who go to these Systemically bad situations.

Sorry, the Jets, the Browns, the Titans, you know, the Jets. I mean, you don't have to go back for seconds, Seth, but I understand your point. But like, Um And, you know, I think that like what's happened is that we're so quick to label these guys as busts, even if they go to poor situations where. They're not the only failure at that position there. And the coaches are under stress because they have to figure out a way to save their jobs and they can't really develop a guy.

And, um, It's been an interesting thing. I didn't write about this in the book, but it's interesting to look at there's an entire economy of quarterbacks now in the NFL that are kind of these retreads, you know, where they were looked at as failures. and they find another place to go. They learn from a really smart coach like Baker did with Sean McVay or Sam Darnold did with Kevin O'Connell and Kyle Shanahan. And at Geno Smith, and they can re-emerge.

And have really productive careers, you know, if they can just hang on and survive and kind of weather that storm of confidence.

Well, it's nature versus nurture sometimes, right? It's how you're born into the league, how lucky you are to be born into the league. And I think, for instance, J.J. McCarthy, okay, that's Justin Jefferson, and that's the quarterback whisperer of the moment, fresh office coach of the year campaigning, Kevin O'Connell. Thumbs up.

Great defense as well. Great job. Then you've got. Obviously, Sam Darnold's is a perfect example of how he was born into the league. Zach Wilson's another one, so on and so forth, nature versus nurture, right there.

But the question that I, or the conversation I always have with Kurt on the subject matter, and this is why I think Kurt is so, as you point out, expert. on the subject matter. Um he would not have been able to do what he did on the magic carpet ride. Um for the St. Louis Rams, if he didn't have NFL Europe, or maybe the Arena League, or the obvious failure in Green Bay where he got cut.

And the question is. I have for you, certainly since you and Don Van Natta know ownership in the NFL, having covered it for as long as you have. Why, why? Does the NFL not put money into that? If I'm in the membership, there but for the grace of the injury gods go mighty.

Where I'm down a quarterback two or three, and this guy's not ready, and the whole season gets flushed down the toilet. Why isn't there more money put into a developmental league or more money put into developing quarterbacks in the National Football League? Why not? The ownership group, the membership, as they sometimes call themselves. They move slow unless an automatic profit is at stake, in which case they move really, really quick.

And so I don't think they see the need for it. I mean, you know, what makes the NFL unique Is it, you know, these guys make a fortune? Um each year. Uh Regardless of how good they are. And so people tune in and watch whether, you know, it's Justin Fields at quarterback or whether it's Matthew Stafford.

And I think the most obvious answer is that even though I think intellectually they would understand the virtue of having a developmental league. They don't feel the huge necessity to do it because You know, some of these guys winning isn't as important as you'd think it would be. How about that? What an answer that was. I don't even know how to follow up on something like that because it just strikes me again as.

You know, um The the 49ers were very fortunate that Brock Purdy was as ready as he was when they finally had to get down to him. And other teams get down a quarterback three and the season's gone and court, you know, and it's a miserable existence. For their franchises. Seth Wickersham here on The Rich Eisen Show. How does it feel to have freaked out the entire city of Chicago with your book?

That was quite a ride. I'm not going to lie about that. You know, I think that like it goes back to what you're saying, though, context matters. And you know, having built an audience, you know, it's like the situation that you're brought into and what you do with it matters, even though people don't always, they're not quick to see that. And so.

I think that what Carl and Caleb Williams were looking at Around the time that I visited with them, and in the lead up to the draft, is like, look. Chicago doesn't have a great record with quarterbacks. Carl Williams told me, you know, Chicago's where quarterbacks go to die. And is there a way to exert some agency over a future employer? And You know, they thought about it and they looked at almost every kind of, they were, you know, trying to find lawyers and agents and anyone who had ideas that might be able to help them.

At the end of the day, though, I think that Caleb was driving things. Caleb met with the bears. You know, Ryan Pole said we're drafting you no matter what. He met with his teammates, he liked them, he liked Chicago, and he liked the opportunity. He didn't want to do what Jack and John Elway did or what Archie and Eli Manning did, which is basically create an untenable situation.

He didn't want to do it. And, you know, even though it took a year. They got what they wanted, which is like an innovative offensive mind in Ben Johnson, who's. Success is rooted in Caleb's success.

So you're saying, have you spoken to Carl and Caleb since then? Are they pleased with what is now, in fact, going on there? I mean, I think that they're thrilled. I mean, I think that, like, I haven't talked to Carl specifically about Ben Johnson, but like, I think Caleb. You know, we met to go through things, you know, some reporting in the book and stuff.

And he had just been hired. I think that he had just come back from the press conference. Caleb had just go back to work out in Florida. And, you know, I think he's ecstatic. And I think that, like, You know, when Brady retired for the final time, Um Caleb texted Carl and he said, I need eight.

And Carl was out on the East Coast and he's like, eight what? Does he need like a Costco shipment? Like, do I need to DoorDash something? Like, what is he talking about? And it was eight rings.

You know, that's where he saw the bar. And, you know, that's what I think he wants. And you can't do it alone. Like we said, context matters. Seth Bukersham here on The Rich Eisen Show.

What did you learn about quarterbacking? I think one of the most interesting things I, you know, the book is a lot about American ambition and American fame, and I think that quarterback. Has gotten so big. And almost from the moment it was started and invented by Walter Camp in 1906. Like, I have some, it's not a history of the quarterback, but I have historical aspects.

And like, almost from that moment, It was defined and held in kind of a lofty status within the football world and even beyond. But like. You know, starting with really Bob Waterfield and Jane Russell. I mean, they might have been the country's first power couple in the 1940s here. The LA Rams moved from Cleveland in part because of Bob Waterfield's celebrity and Jane Russell's celebrity in 1945.

So Travis and Taylor aren't the first. They're the one who's the prelude. And so I think that, like. At this point, it's gotten so big that when you look at The makeup you need to be a successful quarterback. It's not just about throwing.

I think you need to find people who can weather the fame. And I think that, like, The people who do it really well I think they have that little piece of their personality where there's a hole that can't be filled. Like, similar to a politician or a pop star, where they need to be at the center of their own ecosystem. They need to be. Receive constant adolescent and love and encouragement.

And I think the toughest position. Yeah. requires some sort of There's huge insecurity that goes on with you read about it. Confidence you need to play quarterback among the greats. I think that even like among the greats, it's most acute.

And I think that to me is really fascinating. Brady's insecure?

Well, he did a roast less than a year after he retired. He sat in center stage, didn't he? Nobody forced him to do it. We were there. We were there.

It was a good roast. By the way. And again, for somebody who's chronicled the Patriots, it was therapy. Yeah, I was, and we talked about it. Yeah.

That Brady's retirement ceremony is. That happened in New England a few weeks later wouldn't have been nearly as hunky dory Had there not been so much stuff gotten off people's chests, you know? It's a little crazy because I remember, you know, I'm pretty sure we talked at the time, but you know, I did that big Patriot story in January of 18 about how the principles weren't getting along and maybe. You know, would they look for a way out? And, you know, that was, that, that story was, I mean, that one A took off, and B, you know.

Came under a ton of scrutiny, and like I always thought, you know, it'll age well, and I think that like. You know, Brady coming out and talking about how frustrated he was and how he wasn't going to return to New England that offseason unless something changed, and how it was kind of on Robert Kraft to. Make it work, especially in regards to like Alex Guerrero and his role. It was a fascinating time. It was a fascinating time.

And then to think what they did after that, you know, they kept winning. And it was just like. Yeah. It revealed so many things about the nature of success. And both the ego and the submersion of ego involved.

Fascinating story.

Now, I think I might be also inaccurate by saying that everything got worked out by the roast. Did you hear Bill Belichick's recent comment? about being a college coach. That here there's no owner. or owner's son.

He said in a podium. He did. How did that one hit you? I think he said it to Ben Volan, right? I thought it was a picture of the podcast.

Is that what he said to Ben Volan?

Okay, pardon me. Like, he. You know, like I said. Those things were real. The things that, you know, I was writing about them.

Tom Curran wrote about them to an extent. You know, but those things were real. And I think that like... Look, they push the bounds of achievement in football. And it's not surprising that you would start to have some cracks in those relationships.

But I do think that The way things ended in New England between you know, both crafts and bill I think that that's going to take a little bit more time to mend than it did with Brady, if it ever mends. Does he feel that he's in college because of that fracture? Does he feel that there was some sort of... You know, nuking of his, you know, opportunity to get a job elsewhere in the NFL. I'm just wondering where this comment might be coming from.

Well, John Van Natta and I, and Jeremy Fowler wrote that story, you know, that came out when he didn't get any jobs. And it looked like he was going to get the Falcons for a bid and he didn't. Right. And we wrote that story about how Kraft had told the Falcons you can't trust him. And now did that cost him that job?

I think it had some factor in it. You know, we've seen it from Bill. He said it publicly. You know, he's gone back to the valuation of the Patriots before he got there and after he got there. And there's a lot of factors that go into that.

But. It is a fact that that, you know, that the value of that franchise has gone up quite a bit. And, you know, that. He and Tom Brady and a bunch of those great players. Have helped the Kraft family quite a bit.

And I think that from the Kraft family point of view, Yeah. He pissed off the greatest player ever who left, went out, and won a Super Bowl. You know, and then he, you know, had he struggled without him. And, you know, the record is what the record was. And especially offensively, they just.

We're never really able. I think when Josh McDaniels was there in Mac Jones rookie year, they did well and they made the playoffs. But after that, it never really clicked again.

So before I let you go here, knowing what you know about quarterbacking, and I just. if you could if you have to put your marker On any Quarterback 25 and younger in the National Football League right now, knowing what you know about quarterbacking, makeups of quarterbacks, where they currently are, what they've done so far, you put your mark on this person. To win multiple Super Bowls. Multiple Super Bowls. Multiple Super Bowls.

You're like, I'm going to put my Seth Wicker shimmer. I'm going to go with JJ. How about that? McCarthy? Yeah.

Come on, don't just say that. You don't need to. Giving him what he wants. Kevin O'Connell told me that. You really wouldn't.

I do have to go over Jaden Daniels, for instance. CJ Stroud is another. Does Hurts count? Hurts would. I mean, how old is Hurts?

Well, Hurts, you know, Hurts. Hurts would be up there. I think Hurts is 27. He's a little outside of the age range, but I will say this: I met with Kevin O'Connell for the book, and he, of course, was a great college quarterback, four-year starter at San Diego State. And he got drafted by the Patriots, thought he'd learn from Brady and then take that knowledge elsewhere.

And, you know, his career essentially ended. And we talked a lot about those scars and how that informs how he coaches quarterbacks and looks at them. And one of the things that he did. Was when he was getting these tryouts with teams, he would try to make the Wow throw, the John Elway throw, and knock the coaching staff over with it. He kept getting cut.

And he realized later, he went back and watched all of Brady's game-winning drives and Super Bowls and big games, Montana's, Elways, and what stood out was how mundane they were. Like, they looked like they were doing spring practice, even though the stakes couldn't have been higher. And he realized that, like, quarterbacking is really about. You know, doing the... Obvious thing that's right in front of you at the highest level you possibly can.

And I think that, like, that to me, there's a reason why Caleb Williams really liked Kevin O'Connell as you know, I wrote about is that like he just knows how to speak quarterback. And I think that they're going to be really successful.

So you're not just saying JJ McCarthy because I'm a Michigan guy, but you see what his talent is. And it's in the hands of Kevin O'Connell. And that is why you're saying what you're saying. The theme of our segment, context matters.

So is this book, American Kings, a biography of the quarterback? Get it wherever your book is. Can be acquired. Seth, you now know where the studio is. I love it.

I now see that you're a whole human. Come anytime you're here in Los Angeles, will you please? Thanks, man. Anytime. That's Seth Wickersham right here from ESPN.

Get the book. All right, first one up, Brian Cranston. True or false, one of your first gigs was a Preparation H commercial, true or false. Oh, come on. That's so.

Oh gosh. Photo. That's very Roy Scheider. Isn't it? The hook right there.

If I could pick it, Roy Schiner is really good. What do you think? Or what's that talk show host who had those big red glasses? What's her name? Sally Jesse Raphael.

Sally Jesse Raffelle. Sally Jesse Raffiel. Good call. Good zombie. That was good feeling.

Good call. So what happened? This is truly a little bit more. It's called a job, Rich. I know you haven't been job hunting in a while.

Mr. Employment, steady employment guy.

Well, you're not, you know, actors, you gotta say yes.

Well, this was at least I was a spokesperson. I wasn't afflicted. By hamroids. You know what?

Well, in real life, I am, but not in hemorrhoid. If I was afflicted, I would trust you. To give me the right put that ointment on and go. There we go. Let's take care of this little problem.

I didn't mean the administering of the operation. Oh, I'm advice of like you said. I'm a full-service spokesperson. We don't just stop with talking about it. Come on.

Is that why you brought your alcohol? Yeah, I bring my alcohol so I can soak my finger. Oh, yeah. It kills. It just kills everything.

I don't know.

True or false, you did your own stunts on Malcolm in the middle, including wearing a suit of 10,000 live bees. That also is false.

Okay. That never happened. Oh, God. You keep on having a photo press. But those are real?

Those are real. That's true. 10,000. I forget how many the count it was, but they would extract the pheromones from the queen. and they would put the droplets all over me wherever they wanted the bees to go.

Then they'd open up the traveling chutes and the bees would just start swarming. And they swarm forever. In order for them to stay off my face so the camera could recognize me, you take a little of the bug spray off or whatever, and they put it all over my face there so that they would crawl, oh, no, I don't want that, and they'd get off it. But it was about About two inches thick of bees.

So I got stung once in the shoulder when they were getting them off. But once when I was doing that whole thing and I had to stand very still, one got between my legs and I. And I got stung, and I said, Oh, I think I got stung because when you're wearing bees, Rich. The chance of being stung is pretty high. Yes.

You're wearing bees, for God's sake.

So, but what I realized is that the sting of a bee is not really painful. It is mostly the shock that gets you. Your bomb, cheese, just something just but When you're wearing bees and you get stung, it was literally. Yeah. I think I'm.

Did I get stunned up? Ah, I did get stung and the beekeeper comes over ready with a little credit card thing and a thing to scoop it out. He goes, Where is it? I go, in my scrotum. Yeah.

And he goes. Can't help you. That's exactly what it is. Can't help you. Woo-hoo-hoo!

Are there any more delightful humans than Brian Cranston? I was just gonna say. Is he the greatest guest we've ever had? He's close. He's up there, man.

He's up there, man. Oh, as delightful as they come. Back on the Rich Eisen Show Radio Network. Michael in New Jersey. Let's get our guest consultant.

What's up, Michael in New Jersey? What's going on? Hey, Rich, how are you? How could we help, Michael? Though, um So I am currently engaged to my beautiful fiancé.

Congratulations. You and Travis Kelsey. Thank you. Thank you. Very nice.

Okay. Yeah. Thank you. No applause. Just throw money, please.

I'm going to have my bachelor party next month. I'm a big New York Giants fan. And uh we're gonna go to the week four LA Chargers game. And so my question to you guys, and it's for all of you, is number one, Who's going to be my starting quarterback for the Giants that week for week four? And number two.

If you have to pick any regular season game to have your bachelor party at, Which word do you choose and why?

Okay, Russell Wilson will be the starter. Agreed. Barring injury. And number two, any game in Vegas, right? Because, I mean, once you're done.

Where are you going to go after the game, man? I mean. You're going to go to AC, but that's still 90%. That's too far. That's too far.

Bachelor party at a football game, huh? It's a that's an interesting choice. Michael? Uh yeah, I'm I'm not a big Okay. All right.

What's word about that? Guys loving football? That makes total sense to me. Very cool. Is your fiancée into football?

At all? Her football allegiance is contingent on the Taylor Swift situation. Right. Meaning what? She's a Chiefs fan?

Is that what you're saying?

Now? She's now a Chiefs fan? She she she likes the Chiefs. She unfortunately likes Jason a little more, which means she leans a little more toward the Eagles.

Okay, we're working on week three. I think it's attracted, baby. Michael in New Jersey, opposites attract.

Well done. Right here on the Rich Isaac show.

Okay, there he goes. The thing is, with the three, you get the Chiefs play the Giants. Maybe he should try to. The Giants play in Vegas at the end of the year. Let's go.

But he's clearly he's not one of those Guys that wants to go to Vegas and do stupid stuff, and what happens there stays there. I get it. I feel Mike Tyson's line. I'm just saying if his girl likes the Chiefs, he can finangle something there during that time. I don't know.

I just think she's interested in Taylor Swift, which I totally understand. Giants at the Chiefs in October.

Okay. I get it. How would you have answered that question? Whew, you know. I do like the things that go on in Las Vegas.

So, you know, if I'm a Giants fan, maybe I push this to the end of the year, maybe kind of a New Year situation.

Okay Where was your bachelor party, Mike? I didn't have one. You didn't have one? No. What do you mean, no?

No. I look at the shotgun wedding, Rich. We went to like the the To brony place in wherever city it is here, and got married like in front of a like a not even, yeah, it was a joke.

So the wedding was a joke. It was a joke for the media. How would you term the marriage? It was a joke.

Okay, very good. And then the post was a joke. Getting thrown an Emmy thrown at me and almost like killing me. I mean, that was a joke. It was actually funny as hell, but it was a joke.

These Emmys are heavy. Which Emmy did she throw at you? Great question. My second one. Which was for what?

I think it was at MFL on Fox.

Okay, very good. I'm sorry. I'm glad you made up for it. No, didn't. Yeah.

You know, Bob Sackett was at my bachelor party. Where was yours, Rich? Las Vegas, Nevada. See? That's the place.

Yep. That's all I'm going to have to say about that. What are you laughing about, Spelly? Felling off in the discussion. Belly's back hearing a lot more.

I love that one. I love it, Felly. That's it, man. We have a list of all of our fantasy team names. Should we go over this with Adam Ray and Adams?

I think we should.

So these are the selects.

So we need to cut this down to like eight for Paul. That's going to be tough. Yeah. They're all really good. You guys got a lot of good ones.

They're all really good. Oh, my God.

So the rejected ones we'll post, and if people want to use them, they can use them. Oh, you just added Alaska's Uncle Reconstruction. I got to say, great late entry by Seth Wickersham. Alaska's Uncle Reconstruction. Yeah, because I think the window's got to close today.

So, Smitch can get the avatars ready for next Tuesday, because there's a lot of work. Yeah. So, Smitch, we're going to get this information to you by the end of the day. Oh, the end before the end of the day.

Okay. Yeah, a lot of good ones on there. Finger gunned by Costner. It's pretty strong. That's another cost gets just left.

Toward gets to brain. It's really strong. This is good stuff. This is good stuff. I am Michael Rosenbaum.

I am Tom Welling. Welcome to Talk Bill, where it's fun to talk about small books. We're going to be talking to sometimes guest stars. Are you liking the direction Plois is going in? Yeah, because I'm getting more screen time.

That's good. But mostly, it's just me and Tom remembering. I think we all feel like there was a scene missing here. You got me, Tom. Let's revisit it.

Let's look at it. See what we remember. See what we remember. I had never been around anything like that before. I mean, it was so fun.

Talk Bill. Talk Bill. I just had a flashback. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Let's get into it.

Mm.