The Jim Jackson Show: O'Shea Jackson Jr. And TJ Jefferson

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it.

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Welcome in. This is a special, special edition of the Jim Jackson Show. Of course. I'm going to touch base and touch a little bit on the NBA Finals. Shout out to OKC for.

You know, ending the deal. Best team all year. Usually, sometimes that doesn't equate to a championship, but that wasn't the case here. Feel extremely sorry for Therese Halliburton for the way it ended. Indiana had a great season.

So I'm going to touch on that, some free agency, we got trades, but more importantly, sometimes you got to cross shows over. You know, and have different talent in different voices, have a different opinion. And right now, I got two. Two extremely special guests. One, I'm not too sure about TJ over here to the side.

I don't know, but O'Shea Jackson Jr., both from No Contest Wrestling podcast.

So, we're gonna get into that too because I was a huge wrestling guy growing up, so we're gonna talk about that.

So, I thank you for joining me right now. But I'm so happy to. Because I've worked with your pops, of course, with the big three since we started in 2017. We had a chance to chop it up, but not really chop it, chop it up. be able to do that.

During our time here on the podcast, but I just want to say what's up, what you've been up to, what's going on. I know the podcast is going, but what other things are you working on right now? Uh right, you know, as of now. The focus has been on everything, no contest, you know, with the no contest wrestling podcast, trying to make it as big as we can, take it as many places as we can. And we're not even 50 episodes in, you know, and we're making a splash.

You know, people are starting to recognize what we're doing. But other than that, I got a film that I'm doing with Dave Franco and Peter Dinklage over in August. I got to go to Atlanta to film that. And in between, you know, waiting to see what big fish. I get in the boat from Dennett Thieves.

I've just been hitting the indies up, you know, doing stuff where, you know, you could really show your acting chops a little bit more. Just hitting these indies, you know, quick, quick weeks of work. Obviously, good money because I'm a single black father. I'm a single black father. Right, right, right.

Yeah.

So, but yeah, just showing off the chops a little bit. I did a film called Ingrid Goes West right after Straight Out of Compton. And that project. Has gotten me a lot of work. Really?

You know, just because when you go the indie route, the festival route, It gets different eyes on you than uh the you know the popcorn movie would do. Here's the thing. How do you, in Hollywood, you can get typecasts, especially you coming out, you playing your father and straight out of Compton. But then the role kind of shifts to, I think, a more maniacal, not maniacal, but intelligent thief in Den of Thieves one and two. But then how do you kind of drive your career narrative that you don't get boxed in?

And that's what you're talking about with the indie stuff, right? Because it happens to a lot of people in Hollywood where they get put in this lane and they have to stay in that lane. I mean, it it it it all came from A little bit of fear. Really? After straight out of Compton, I'm thinking, you know, had the number one movie three weeks in a row, Oscar nominated.

I'm thinking the phone about to, you know, blow up. Right. And it didn't happen. It didn't happen. And, you know, for a year, I didn't get work.

And, you know, It confused me, and then I started to kind of really read into it of. When I was first going for the role, Of Ice Cube and Straight Out of Compton. You know, I had to audition for two years, and the studio and the director, when my dad said he wanted me to audition, they asked him, you know, is this a joke?

So, right then and there, they, you know, they believe in me and there. And then, once word got out that I was auditioning, and then it was, you know, just the talks of if I could even do it. And then, once I did it and killed it, it turned into, of course, he could play his dad. Right, right.

So, then I was like, okay, I'm going to give you no problem. There was no problem.

So, like, for a year, I'm like, okay. Whatever I get. Has to be completely different from the last thing I did because I got a show, I got ranched.

So after that, after straight out of Compton, we went the indie route. kind of a dark comedy with uh Ingrid's West. After that, we got an action film with Den of Thieves One. And then we went. The sci-fi blockbuster with Godzilla.

Then, after that, I went comedy with Seth Rogan and Charlotte's Tharone and Long Shock.

So, I've always made sure the next thing we do has to be night and day from the last thing.

So, they can't put me in a box. And I mean, it's worked out. A lot of the projects that I've taken have helped me get other ones. Like, for instance, Inger Goes West. I had a meeting with a woman named Deborah Chow, and they were doing the Obi-Wan Kenobi series for Disney Plus.

And she's talking to me, and she tells me a lot about the story. And I'm like, you know, I ain't signed to NDA or nothing. Like, are you supposed to be telling me this? She goes, oh, no, you're not auditioning. I want you to have a part.

No, she just gave it to you. Yeah.

And so I'm like, why me? She said, because I love. Your character and anger goes west and I feel like that warmth you'll be able to bring to this character and that's what I need for this.

So like those decisions that might not be the biggest payload or whatnot. It's just different eyes on it. The real, you know, the cinema people are looking at those, where the commercialized, you know, those fans aren't. And that will help you push forward.

So that's what I'm doing now.

Well, listen, here's the thing: like again, basketball, football. After a game, we watch film, you know, to see where we can get better. And then take maybe different roles in order to expand our game. From an acting perspective, How do you grow? Do you go back and look at the film and evaluate it and say, you know what?

I need to improve on A, B, C, and D? How do you get better as an actor? Again, playing these different roles. And on the back end, If you had your choice, when you get your choice, your ideal role. Oh, um I think um I it It takes a lot for me to watch myself because it's, you know, being in film has ruined the way that I look at films.

Like now I'll be watching movies and think that was probably annoying to film or like that, you know, I'm sure this took six days or just, you know, I just. I'm looking at it from a different lens. And when I would watch myself, I would critique myself so hard. Then you'd hear somebody be like, Man, you killed them. But then in your head, you've knocked yourself down so many times that you can't even really fully enjoy it.

So, with me, I'll watch it maybe once or twice, take in what I need to take in. All right, we do this too much. All right, we should work on that. And then also, it helps to. Watch other films, watch other people get down because then you start to get the competitive itch of just like, I could do that.

Man, I could kill that. I would kill this. And so then you start to try to add it to your own game. And then my ideal role. Would be a villain, dude.

I gotta be a villain.

So, like Bang, villain like that, or like a villain like. O Dog. Like who? O-Dog. Just like.

Or somebody like, you know, what's like one of those main villains, let's say, at Mission Impossible. Yeah.

You know what I mean? That's his real smart, but just intellectual, but just evil. Yeah.

Like a Hans Gruber. Almost. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Definitely.

I mean when you do When you're a part of like, you know, superhero lore or like an IP like that, you kind of have to stay true to that character. You don't have necessarily the freedom that you would over something that's you know brand new and made up. I mean, you got to find the fun in doing one of those IPs, though.

So I would definitely not say no. But yeah, something psychological for sure because, you know, my dad is known for the frown. I'm known really, I smile way more than my dad, and a smile can be evil. Just like that.

Well, it didn't things. You think about it because the way it was written. Nobody thought about that first. You see what I'm saying? But here you are playing this psychological role, even in that perspective.

of how you're able to manipulate The situation, your character. Nobody thinks it is going to be you. You got all these other players, and now it becomes you that set everybody up. And that's what you're talking about, right? Yeah, that even then, but with Den of Thieves, it's such a blurred, and that's why I feel like it's such a successful franchise, because we blur the line so much where you're like.

Wait, am I supposed to be rooting for the cops? Because I'm not really rooting for the cops, but like they are criminals.

So, like, so when it comes to Donnie, you end up rooting for Donnie. You know, I want to be somebody that you're like, oh my God, like, please don't let him be in there. You know, like, old boy in no country for a little man, my God. Anton Shigura. Yeah, yeah.

Like, you see, when you see him in the back of a room, you're like, oh, yeah, they're done. He was a bad dude, man. Yeah, he was a great dude. I would foam at the mouth for something like that.

Well, you know, it's interesting, too, because Nan was talking about getting put in the box because you are Ice Cube's son.

So automatically, people go think. All right, he should be into music and hip-hop and doing all of this. But yet you go.

Now, Cube has been acting.

So you kind of followed a little bit of that from the acting side, but. I wouldn't know about this WWE because in the rest of it, because I grew up. WWF back in the day, Gordon Soley, we talk about this. Man, man, it was. It was Hulk Holden, Hulk Hogan, Andre the Giant, Rowdy Roddy Piper, British Bulldogs, Jimmy Superfly Snooker.

That was my era. When did you start watching? And you watch it too and get into it. And I'm more your air. Yeah, you're.

Wait with us right here. I'm closer to your age. Superstar. Uh, superstar Billy Graham, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, dude, like you said, you hit it.

War, ultimate warrior, ultimate warrior, yeah, so um.

Well, first of all, a man whose name doesn't get mentioned enough. Oh, yeah, brother. Oh, come on, man. Yeah.

Coffee, coffee. The Macho Man Savage Savage. To this day, there's no one quite like Macho Man Savage when you look at everything that makes up a wrestler. You're looking at in-ring, and you're also looking at that visual presentation. The man's just like.

The way he was dressed, the robes, and the hats. He's the gear office. He's on ads. He's on that. I'm going to sell something for him.

And then the promos. Like, Macho Man, he was him back then. When he said, like, be jerky and stuff like that.

Something like Sliffy. You, Jim Jackson. The guy with the big guns, bro. Yeah.

So, how did you get it? I mean, what? I had your big brother, man. I had a big brother, my big brother, Daryl. And.

I really got introduced to wrestling through video games. Second Genesis, it was a game called WWF Raw. And, you know, him. Teaching me was him teaching me, all right, you should pick him. All right, no, no, you want to pick Undertaker, I'll be Shawn Michaels, or I'll be Razor Ramon, you be, you know, just like that's how I learned who these people were and their friends.

He wasn't putting you with drawers, you know, no, no, no, he didn't make you be the moke. We used to give Doink the Clown work, bro. But yeah, from there, he was like, you know, we can, like, this is like, we can watch these people. And I'm like, I'm thinking it's just a game. And so he, you know, he showed me.

Um, show me Undertaker and, you know, rolling his eyes back and like We started watching wrestling. We would catch it every now and then, but I really started to watch it on a weekly basis around 98 to 2000. That's when I'm watching it every week. Like, I gotta see, I gotta see what's happening. It became the biggest soap opera of my life.

And so I'm watching obviously Stone Cold, Rock, Taker, Mick Foley, later on, Kurt Angle. And yeah, it, it. Took over, and I kind of never really let it go. There was a portion of my life where I stopped watching on a weekly basis, but then. I came back around, I think.

Maybe 2012, 2013, where I was just like, let me peep it, see it again. And I start to see, you know, just the stars of today on the rise and a couple of people that I knew from back when. And now, in my adult life, especially with the career that I chose, I look at it like, These people are doing what I do with no cuts, no redos. It's live. No stuntman.

Yeah.

No stuntman. No. Yeah.

Because the Lord knows I use a stuntman. No, like, it's just like, you got to bring it. And, you know, the. Just for as far as character work, they got to add to their character every week. They have to make sure that character is not stale every week, and then put that on top of the travel and the risk.

And if you can't really. If you can't appreciate all the mental and physical work that has to go into that, you're not looking at wrestling the right way. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more.

Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it.

So your dollar goes a long way. Visit Progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

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This this is what blows me away about it. A lot of people over the years have mentally bought into A individual, a team, or just rest in the Period. It's purely entertainment. Yeah.

That it's, and I don't like to use the word fake. Because you don't use that in wrestling. You know, that's why I don't like to use that. But a lot of predetermined outcomes. Exactly.

But a lot of people will just walk off. You know what I mean? But it amazes me. It amazes me to this day how big and popular it is, knowing that it's a predetermined outcome. Yeah.

Why is that? How does it continue just? To grow like this over the years because of the characters? Yeah, it definitely is the characters. And with social media and things, you've started to kind of see the individual as well.

And then you start to really root for somebody. We were just talking about a reality show that they used to have, Toto Divas. It kind of pulled the veil a little bit. Uh, on wrestling for women, and you see them as a person, and it's not just you know, you when you can. When you start to dehumanize somebody, whether that be a player, whether that be an actor, or like they're just there for the entertainment, you lose track of this is a person with hopes, dreams, and aspirations.

And so you kind of get, nowadays, you get tied to these superstars and you want to see them succeed and you understand that it's politics and you're just hoping to see them break through. And when you see them break through, it is such a good feeling. You have situations like Daniel Bryan with WWE or Kofi Kingston. Just recently, Jay Uso. They find these people and you get attached to them and you know that the business is all about.

You know, politics. And you're just hoping that they break through that.

So every now and then they'll listen to the crowd. In the cases of those people we mentioned, Daniel Bryan, Kofi Kingston, and Jay Uso specifically, those were guys who probably. Especially under the old regime, they wouldn't have gotten a chance to be top guys because they're not giants. You know, they weren't what the company was looking for and pushing. But the fans were so adamant about pushing these guys that they had no choice but to listen and put them on.

So that's what I was going to ask you. Like, how do you, you know, from a wrestling perspective, because you have all these dynamic personalities, and you know, it's some that resonate a lot more than others, even though this one may be better, this person, but it resonates. Is there what you found? When they go to pick who's going to be next, what's that process like? Is it a combination that is based on fan reaction?

That helps the most for sure. It helps the most for sure because we've seen a lot of people get what's called pushed. With all the crowd backing in the world, but maybe not as much ring ability as, you know, so-and-so. And when you find the perfect blend of. Not only can I talk a good game, but I could put on a show.

That's when you start to see your legends. That's when you start to see the people that people remember because we all know what we're looking at, and if for a moment, You can make me feel like it was real right there. And you can keep doing that. You go into the Hall of Fame. You got people behind you.

You made me, even with this knowledge of the business that I had, you made me believe. And that right there is the essence of everything that they put on. And so, you know, you got situations where. There's a wrestler that we both are huge fans of by the name of Shinsuke Nakamura. All right, one of the greatest in-ring performers.

Favorite male wrestler. Yeah, dude, it is just a rock star. But when it comes to cutting promos English isn't his first language So they, I've always felt like WWE can't fully speak. They can't really get behind him and really push it like that. Because he can't, like, he's not cutting rock level promos or home.

He's not going to the Good Morning Americas and speaking about it. Yeah.

And, you know, it kind of stinks because when it comes to everything else professional wrestling related, he's got it. He's got it. You know, but because the promo thing is such a big part of it, it's kind of hard. To push people when they're not they can't tell by the way this isn't anything that we agree with, but it's it is look at it back in our day. You had Hulk Hogan because he was so gregarious.

You're talking about Randy Savage, but one of the big stars was Andre DeGeron, but you couldn't really promote. and push Andre, even though he was one of the Premiere highlights when you, when he and Hulk Hogan were going to go at it, when they finally were going to fight, it was huge. It was the biggest. It was the biggest, right? But you had this.

Personality with Hulk, but then you had this outstanding individual with Andrea, but you really couldn't. 'Cause you couldn't market 'em the right way. What are you going to do with Andre? Because if Andre decides he doesn't want to do something, He wasn't going to do it, right?

So, what Vince McMahon Sr. did was smart when he got a hold of Andre, he would let him go to different promotions. You remember back in those days, before the internet, before all the stuff where we know everything's going on now, you could have a guy wrestle in, you know, Texas.

So, you can have him wrestle in Missouri, Florida, Minneapolis, with AWA. You can move them around that way. He doesn't, the people in the area don't get too comfortable seeing him. Yeah.

Right. And also now you move him around.

So now you're constantly putting new eyes on him and his legend because Andre the Giant, man, I feel. I feel amazing that we actually got to live at a time where Andre was alive. He was probably past by the time you got in, but like Andre the Giant was real. And he's like this mythological figure. And that's what happened.

He was able to travel the world because he wasn't stuck in one promotion. And now everyone got to see him, but you didn't get to see him wrestle the same people over and over.

So it was always fresh people, new eyes on Andre, and that's why he became what he became. And that's hard to do in this generation because you can't. You know, you, you. Back in the old days, you had that special feeling.

Now I see you every week.

Now I see you every single day. Same thing in basketball though. Yeah, yeah. So you you start to They there's situations where they start to write themselves into a corner. Like there was a, rest in peace, Bray Wyatt.

He had this character known as the Fiend, all right? And the Fiend was just this unstoppable force of just like, you can't, you can't kill it. You can't get it down, you know? And so. The crowd is waiting for the fiend every week, and they go ballistic, and like there's merch being sold, and there's just all this behind it.

So now we gotta put the belt on them, but you built this unstoppable force. How is he ever supposed to lose? And then when you start to make him lose, the magic is gone. The magic is gone. The magic is gone.

So that's that dynamic of. I guess with anything too, because you build somebody up, you build them up, and you know they have the reach, they have the bandwidth. And then, at what point is that star so big that it starts to diminish a little bit more, and you're not getting all of it out of it? I mean, basketball, listen, one of the best things happened was. having You know, social media for a lot of these guys.

But one of the worst things was the nostalgia, the, the, the, like, what made Michael so special? Jordan at his time is because you didn't really know a lot. Like when he came, when Mike came to town. By the way, you didn't have to say Jordan. We knew who he was.

Oh, yeah. When you say one, you say Mike. When you say Mike, and we talk, you already know who it is. Right? Listen, when he came, it's this nostalgia.

It's this mystery still about him that made people even go more crazy because of. And I think in today's world, because. The stars have so much access. People have so much access to their everyday life, to what they're doing. A part of that nostalgia and that mystery is lost because I know so much about you.

Exactly. And then they start to pick holes at you and start to do things, and leagues are trying to figure out how do we hold on to our. most valuable assets and make them Here. But didn't still give our fans access. Yeah, it's just a weird balance.

I try to find that balance. you know with my my own career because there's a certain mystique about You know, you only see. You only see Leonardo DiCaprio when it's time to do a movie. You know, you only see Brad Pitt. When you got a movie to sell you, and I'm in the generation of you know, streaming and all this stuff.

Where I mean, you go on my Instagram, I don't post my business, but when you do see me, it's either no contest. or movies, but I know that in this new internet age. If I just sat around and waited for my phone to ring, for somebody to offer me a script. I'm going to be out.

So, you know, I. It's just about finding a balance of way of having your brand, that's the word everybody likes to use, but still in a way of not selling yourself, you know, and that is the, it's hard to do, because once people start to get that light, You want to be. And it all begins. Ma'am, I when I uh first Did straight out of Compton. I told somebody that the fame and attention and all that, it is like a jellyfish.

Like it looks great, it looks beautiful. But don't you dare get caught up in it. Because it's a wrap, you know, so it's. The new athlete, the new actor, the new WWE or wrestling star in general, it is about a way of making yourself. Likable, relatable, and still a product worth buying.

without necessarily giving your s giving up your armor Because when you give up that armor, like you said, they'll just poke holes in you and rip your legacy to shreds. But it's so hard, too, because imagine. Especially with a lot of athletes today, they see. What the Whatever league it is can give them, what the lifestyle can give them.

So, whether they're 15, 16, 17 years old, they see it. They see it. It's right there in front of their face. Their favorite athlete, whatever sport it is.

So now they got NIL. And now you got NIL.

So now you're a pro while you're in college. And that whole expectation level is going to be different now for college student athletes, okay? Because you're going to be expected to perform, and when you don't, That money probably is going to be taken away, they're going to move to that. And I think parents got to understand that too. That now their son, their daughter, is going to be looked at as a professional athlete.

A commodity. A commodity. And as a program, if I'm paying you all this money. My patience is thin before I could be cool and be like, you know. I can wait after your freshman year, you're a sophomore, you grow.

Now, if I'm paying you right out the gate, I expect something. For you to talk like that in today's world about a certain anonymity and keeping that. I think that shows a lot of maturity because it's easy. I say, listen, that camera is as addictive as any drug. Yeah.

That's why a lot of people do, they'll do a lot of reality shows that don't get paid. But People recognize them because of that. Endorphin that fuels that kind of powerful. That powerful. And to be able to.

Live in it. But not Stay in it. Right. Is a unique trait to have. But you, you're lucky in that sense because, look, you may have gotten caught up, but because of who you are and who your pops are, who your family is, you already had someone who already went down that road.

And they already, I'm sure your pops, he put you on game to everything you were going to know. There's probably stuff that he taught you that you won't even get to until later.

So you were lucky in that sense that you didn't have to navigate that, man. You had someone to tell you, no, this is, do this, don't do that. Yeah, I like to tell people like. Everyone Everyone says, you know, I'm Ice Cube's son. I am not Ice Cube's son.

I'm O Shea Jackson Sr.'s son. When he comes in the door, Ice Cube's gone. Ice Cube is gone. Like you said, the one show, he ain't mad around the house. Exactly.

Like, just running around everybody out there. When he came into the show, and you were like, well, you think he's sitting there eating cereal in the morning with a shower? He's just mad, man. Yeah, no.

So, like, it's a mask that you have to put on as soon as you go out in the public eye. And, you know, to anybody out there listening, bro, you want to be rich, not famous. You know, you got to figure that out. Puck said that. Give me the money.

Yeah, yeah. But here's the thing, too, though.

So, so the other side of that is, well. You're already there.

So your decision making is a lot different. It's easier to say, like people say, People with money.

Well, money ain't everything.

Well, yeah, well, you got money. You can say that. Of course, you can say that. You know what I mean? It's one of those things too where It's, you kind of gotta go, every individual gotta go through it.

And despite, we've had examples. Of where a male or female may have had a famous parent and got taught the game, but still messed up.

So many.

So it depends on that level of maturity and everything. And that goes back to you too. understanding kind of what you want. how you want to be viewed, what you want in your career, and then. When it was time.

for you to kind of where the rubber really meets to where you can say all the stuff you want. But when that thing comes crashing at you with the fame and the accolades and people want, that's when the decision-making comes in. Yeah.

And, you know, there's a, you know, there's been. Plenty of sacrifices and decisions that I've had to make. Like my friends know. I just can't hang how I used to. You know, I just, I just, I, it sucks, but I can't.

I forced straight out of Compton. My friends took me to six flags one last time, type, you know, just like, or let's have a Vegas trip one last time because. Everybody's going to be looking now. There's always going to be a camera on me. I'm always going to be at risk.

Like, it is what it is. And even when it came, Time to decide on what I wanted to do for my career because I did try the rapping thing, and what I realized that I was getting out of that is I got a kick out of. Saying lines that make you think who thinks of that, you know, just being able to impress people with my words. What I didn't realize is that it was more of a love of writing than it was a love of writing songs.

So then, you know, I had a teacher catch me daydreaming in class one day. Shout out to her non. He put a notebook in front of me. He was like, listen, whatever you're thinking about, just write it down. And then when you're done, can you come back to me?

And so I was like, all right. And he gave me 30 minutes each class to write down. Just write whatever's in my head, whatever's in my head. And I ended up writing 120-page handwritten story. And then he was like, have you ever thought about doing scripts?

And then so he got me my teacher, Bill Rubenstein, who taught me how to break that story into script form. And that is what I used to get in the USC. And so, like, that's where I now got this love of writing, and I'm still trying to do music. And when it came time for straight out of Compton. I I had to ask myself, you know, what am I really going to give my all to?

You know, I don't want to do both. And The way that I looked at it is music-wise, My family name is cemented forever. Like, there's no higher that I think I can take it from where my dad is taking it. I doubt you could talk no Vaseline. I've never been that mad in my life.

So, when it came to film, I've always felt like Hollywood typecast rappers. Because they're scared of my dad, because my dad's ice cubed, because they fear him so much. Every movie that they give him, he is the yelling black dude who might kill you. You know, like that's just how they see him.

So that's what they offer him. But when he writes for himself, you get, you know, the barbershops, you get the Fridays, you get the wholesome side of him.

So it's a real crochet. Yes, exactly. Because that's what he can do. And I know they don't give him so. I saw that as, all right, that's where I can take us higher.

And so I chose film over music because basically nobody wants to see Superman throw $100 bills at a girl in a music video. They're just not going to give you stuff like that once they see you in that character, if you will.

So, like. I chose film. I love telling this story. Um, my dad used to get nominated for the VMAs, the movie awards for MTV. And uh, I wanted that popcorn so bad, and we never got it.

Like Adam Sandler took it from him twice, I think. And I had resentment for Adam Sandler for years. But then, like, when Straight Out of Compton happened, it fell on the 25th anniversary of the movie awards.

So they had black and gold popcorn that year. And the popcorn I was waiting for my whole life had my name on it.

So then I know it's not like the most prestigious award, but I told myself I need to go get every award that they weren't going to give him in acting. Wow. And so that was my motivation. And it's just those type of choices that fuel a lot of the choices I do to this day of what to do and what not to do. See, and that's and that's more important too.

Like I got an older son and I said The decision on what not to do. Mm-hmm. is as important as anything. Because that right there, now again, you're not going to make all the right decisions, but when you have that in mind, it eliminates and keeps you away from a lot of the stuff. Yeah, what I'm not willing to do.

So now that prevents me from moving forward, it's not worth it. It's not worth it, man. Yeah, I found that growing up. Of course, no, not. Being a family like yours, but just in general, I found myself throughout my whole life, even to today, making decisions based upon the fact that I never want to disappoint.

Yeah.

When I was little, it was like, I never wanted to disappoint my grandparents. Like, I never wanted to do anything that would make them have to look at me a certain way. You know, I never want to disappoint my mom or my aunts or my sisters or your family.

So that. For me, you know, a lot of the decisions I made on my life were just based solely upon. you know, thinking about the outcome and going, man, I can't imagine. A phone ringing at that house, and one of them picking it up and hearing I did like me, like, nah, man. Yeah, it was just like, I probably missed out on so much in life just because.

I just, I couldn't do it. I think you missed out. Yeah, I think I missed out. I think I missed out. But it worked in my favor because I always had those people that made me go, I can never disappoint them.

Yeah, thinking about a strong family tie, too, because I know Cube is a big Laker fan. Absolutely. You are too, right? 100%.

Okay.

So let's transition real quick.

So, how much interest did you have in the final just because no Lakers? Um I mean, a little bit. I found a way to cheer. Because you got Former Laker Alex Caruso on the Thunder. Trying to win a wheelchip.

You got a former, says the Clipper, by the way. You got former Laker Thomas Bryan on the Pacers. And plus my uncle Mike Epps is from Indiana.

So right now I was rooting for him a little bit. But yeah, as a Lakers fan, it pleases me to see these teams win their first championship. It's cute. It's cute. Yeah, yeah, you know, adorable.

I mean, like, yeah, we had our first five. We were in an entirely different situation.

So, do you count Minneapolis? Only because we still have the name Lakers. If we were the Minneapolis, you know, whatevers. And we came to LA and became the LA Lakers, then I'd be like, that's a completely different. Hold, hold on, hold on, tell me: are you a baseball fan?

Absolutely. You Dodger fan? Yep. What was the original name? Oh, the Brooklyn Dodgers.

Yeah.

Yeah, so they moved over here. That's fine. They're still the Dodgers. And they kept their name. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If you got a situation like Sonics and Thunder. Right. That shoot everything. T, what was your take on the finals? It was, you know, you get the noise, right?

Big daddy. A lot of fans thought that going into the series. A lot of people wanted to be like, well, there's no Marquee teams or not the Marquee names. But if you're just a real basketball fan and you just watch this series, it was really good basketball. What happened to Halliburton, of course, like you said, obviously terrible because Halliburton, when you look back at this playoffs, he gave us all the moments, right?

No, he did with the shot. And then the Knicks thing, and then, you know, hitting the shot, game one against the Thunder.

So I think that is what was so depressing and disappointing seeing him go down Ceruleas because. He was almost like the soundtrack to these playoffs, right? Yeah.

But the Thunder, statistically speaking, one of the greatest seasons of all time, right? In a lot of different categories. A lot of different categories. You've got SGA, right? Who the last time I was on your pod, I told you how I felt as a Clipper fan losing this channel, right?

But also at the time in 2019, you had not taken Paul George, right?

So you can't look at it. It's hard not to look at it like that, but it's still you have to look at it. It was a move that was necessary. It didn't work out. Unfortunately, it might go down as the worst trade ever.

But. You know, SGA, he's a guy who, you know, people talk about superstars. Who's a superstar, who's not? I think Magic said a superstar is someone who someone who doesn't watch the sport knows, right?

So I don't think either of those guys, Halliburton or SGA, are there yet. But from a basketball perspective, I love the mid-range game, right? I was just watching, right before I was talking to you last night, 30 for 30 was on the last dance was played. Then It wasn't 30 for 30. It was the last dance.

And I'm just watching Mike just get to his spot. 12 to 18 feet, elbow jumpers, just. Using the glass, and I'm sitting there thinking, like, if you're a young buck, I understand the three-pointer. Steph made the three-pointer sexy, Steph Curry changed the game. And I guess, statistically speaking, the three might be a better shot, but man, the mid-range game, if you can master that, you're going to get 20-25 a game without shooting all the threes.

I love SGA's game, man, and it does hurt. It does hurt, but I'm happy for him to see his development and how great he's become. It was a fun series, I think. I think what people, you know, obviously. Everybody wants Steph made the three-pointer as big as a dunk.

But when you think about those Warriors teams that won, aside from the year where they beat Boston, You got Sean Livingston carving you up from the mid-range when the three is not going down. Or you got Kevin Durant. pulling up mid-range when the three is not going down.

So, you need that. You always need to have that to keep the defense honest anyway. Or, like, you know, that's what you use for your pick and roll and all of that.

So, yeah, the mid-range is a lost art, bro. Shout out to DeMar DeRose. And you think about it, look at the Bulls' first run. Steve Kerr hit that shot. That wasn't a three.

That was a top of the key jumper. You know, Paxon hit the shot. Paxon hit the shot. Jordan shot over Elo and Byron Russell. They were all like, you know, here's the thing, too.

When you always talk about the shooting, we talk about Steph, where numbers don't tell the whole story. Like, Steph is going to go down as the greatest shooter of all time. Does that mean he's a better shooter than Larry Bird? I say no. I say the volume in which Steph shot it.

They're going to say, well, Larry didn't shoot from half court. I said that wasn't the game at the time. Larry Bird shot two to three-pointers a game, and that was a lot.

So the numbers are going to skew more towards Steph because he revolutionized that and shooting 10 to 12 three-pointers a game. He could do it. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's a better just, I'm saying this shooter because. Bird didn't have, he didn't have the bandwidth to do that back in the day. Reggie Killer didn't have the bandwidth to do it back in the day.

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But what I loved about the series was this: and you said it, TJ, from a pure basketball perspective, you had two kind of young teens, I mean, um. Pascal C. Oakham, he had won his, he's done his thing. You know, Turner had been there a while, but pretty much you had a young core of guys leading the way. But what's really interesting, this is what's going to be really interesting to see.

When Golden State wanted Teams tried to emulate Golden State and shoot. Yeah.

When Boston won it, Teams wanted to emulate five out. five guys be able to shoot and in And they wanted to emulate that. Not too much, I don't think, Milwaukee when they wanted, because it's hard to get a Giannis to do that. They don't grow on Tree. And it's hard to get a Brooke Lopez, too.

I mean, you see what I'm saying? But it's going to be interesting to see how teams now, because of Indiana. depth how they built okay how they built themselves Are they now looking at That Formula moving forward. Because it's going to be interesting because you got. You're a superstar, but not, I mean, you got your star, but not super, superstar, surrounded by really good complimentary players that know their role.

that all year they've played and now even in the championship game. When Halle went down. Indiana was up at halftime. Yeah, yeah. Nemhart hit the three right.

Because those guys played a specific role all year. They were comfortable.

Now, you know, long term, it was going to hurt them because. extended minutes happen and turnovers happen, but That's to me what's going to be interesting on how teams look at building out their rosters moving forward based on what we saw with this championship. Because success is going to create copycats, so they were able to do this now, other teams. I think it is going to happen. They're going to try to construct themselves in the form of a thunderer or a pacer squad.

Yeah, it stopped being, you know, when. When Boston had the Boston three party, it started to become like, all right, if we're top heavy with a couple of guys on the bench, we'll be okay.

Now it really feels like they're going to be finding guys that fit the way that we play. Like, do you fit our scheme? And can we take a, you know, if a gear falls out, can we put in another one and it still works? And, you know, that was, man, that used to be them Greg Popovich supported. It would be like, it'd be a bunch of people.

I'm like, when did this dude get in the league? Who is this? Who's just cornered through? Yeah.

You know what? OKC is going to have that situation come up soon because if you look at where their contract situation is at. A guy like Blue Dork Three more years left on his deal. Jalen Williams has two years left on his deal. They're going to have to pay him.

Chet Holmgram has two years left on his deal.

So those are the two rights that you look at and say, they got to get paid. But what franchises and organizations are looking at too. I don't want to have to pay this first apron, second apron of the salary cap. See what Boston did now today.

Well, yesterday they traded Drew Holiday. They may make another trade because their payroll was over 500 million. They're like, man, we need to get this thing down. Can we win? And not have this exorbitant payroll.

Yeah.

Big names. Big names that we have to pay.

Now, you got to pay. The thing about the salary cap is you got to pay 90% of the cap. But how you pay it and spread it out, you know, so you're not so much top heavy and you can't move a contract, say, like a Bradley Bill because he has a no-trade clause.

So you get stuck.

So it's funny how we talk about copycat league, but. How You have an idea just a few years ago of building a big three or big two.

Now it starts to shift, and we don't wanna pay. We don't wanna be heavy because part of what the salary cap. And CBA was all about. Was being able to retain your own talent. You're your superstar.

Yeah.

And paying them the super max. My thing is, too, I like this. If you got a rookie. Right? And you develop them.

and now you want to sign them to a big deal. I would like to think that a certain percentage of that money only counts against the cap. That now you still have cap flexibility because you've runed this young man or these players. You should be able to pay them without being penalized because that's what's going to happen with OKC. Yeah.

You see what I'm saying? Because then you, because if you don't have it like that, you start to make the small market franchises look like farming systems. OKC is going to have to figure out. their payroll structure. Design Wallace with Lou Dort.

And they're about to get another Jay Wade trade. That's what I'm saying.

So now they're going to be, they have to make a decision.

Now, they can, because they're flexible, they can lose a Lou Dort and slide somebody else in, but you developed them that whole time, and now you're getting Amstrong, and now you've got to lose it. I think the problem. For everybody else with the thunder, is this their top nine scorers are all under contract for the next season? They have no key free agents, and they've got 13 first-round draft picks in the next seven seasons. I know we, yeah, really.

Another thing is, I don't really recall anyone talking about this whole playoff, how. How much Paul George had a hand in developing the Pacers, the Pacers and the Thunder. Both of those teams had key components who were on that team because of Paul George.

So. 13 first-round picks in the next seven drafts. And no, we haven't had a repeat champion in a while, which makes me think that it. Statistically, it probably won't happen, but I don't know when you look at all this info and you see this team. It's like, how can you sit here and not think, okay, they got at least maybe.

Two Maybe three championships of this squad. Yeah, but with the guys that's under contract. But again, Jalen is the one because he has two years. He's the one that he 26, 27. His deal is up.

They got to keep him. But you know, now his baseline is this.

So you're paying Isaiah Hardenstein 30. Yeah.

That's my baseline of where I'm starting this conversation.

So if you're paying him 30, I knew 40. You see what I'm saying? Sorry, dude. And I think. you know, in the in the situation of them going back to back.

Uh When you become Champion, and you know, just a tidbit because TJ was talking about how this finals was, you know, just really all about, you know, if you loved bass, if you loved watching basketball, this is a great finals for you, which is something a Clipper fan has to say because it's never about winning championships. He's worked for the Clippers, man. You just a rooster that don't crow no more, Jim Jackson. Anyway, as I was saying, going back to back, TJ, going back to back, what happens when you are that. Like on display, where you are the team to want to win the championship.

Now everybody is building to stop you. That's what I was saying earlier. They're watching the Pacers and their game playing the pacific. Tyrese Halliburton getting hurt. We don't know if OKC was going to pull that game out.

The man was hit three threes in a row. It went down. Seven points in nine minutes.

So we don't know if OKC. We will never know if they were going to win with a healthy pace or squad.

So there is a formula to beat them out there. They went to game seven, and now teams are gonna be watching. How the Pacers played them working in the offseason, whether that is the players that they are construction. Roster construction. If they want to play like Indiana.

Exactly. So, I mean, back-to-back, it's hard to do. I mean, I. Yeah, LeBron did go back to back. Oh, yeah, Colby.

That's crazy. But anyway. Yeah.

Hey, hey, speaking of Kobe, you came up with a great idea. Yeah.

Topic for conversation. I said, yeah, it was a great idea. Come on, come on. I want you to chime in on this one too, sir. All right.

So, you know, Jim, um. This is 2025. I saw something a few weeks ago where someone had made up. The all 25 year, all quarter decade. Bait or quarter century, I'm sorry, not quarter decade, that makes sense.

Y'all, quarter century baseball team, right? And they picked basically an all-star team of players from the last 25 years.

So a few weeks ago, I was talking to Jim. I was like, well, I had this idea, man. I'm like, I came up with my own. Yeah, all century, all quarter-century team for the NBA.

So, I'm going to share it with you guys. Oh, from 2000, 2002. Yeah, to see to see what you guys think about this.

Okay.

And so, how'd you break it down? Is it by team? What I did was I went traditional with the starters. I put center power, you know, 54321, and then just kind of look to see who had the biggest impact, who was the greatest at that spot over the last 25 years.

Okay.

So, you just want to jump in there? Yeah, jump in and see what you got.

So, starting at the center, I mean, Shaquille O'Neal. Let's just put it that way. He's the starter three titles, the most dominant player ever. Shaquille O'Neal at the center. I got Tim Duncan.

At the power forward. Four titles, two MVPs, two final MVPs, the greatest power forward ever. At the three, that's LeBron James at the three. Four titles, four MVPs, four finals, MVPs, nine finals. At the two, take a guess.

I'll let you say his name.

Okay.

The Mamba. I'm loving this team. Five titles. The man influenced the world. And then at the point, I got Steph, Steph Curry.

Four titles, two MVPs, one finals MVP. Like we said, he changed the game of basketball.

Sometimes I say he ruined the game of basketball because these kids, you ain't, where am I at? Kids, you ain't Steph Curry. You can't shoot like Steph Curry. I think the coaches ruined it. He didn't ruin it.

He didn't ruin it. Because the coaches let him.

So. You like that five? Man, it's a lot of purple and gold on it. I love it. That's my top five, too.

Okay.

The exact same five that you and I didn't do it by position. I just did it by impact and by winning. And, you know, I don't think people understand how dominant. Especially in the finals Shaq was. Yeah, it's disgusting.

I mean, nothing. You know, I know Jersey didn't have the center or Indiana at the time. And Williams did his best. He did his best. But who, who?

I don't care what center you had. Not at that time. Nah, nah. And Tim Duncan is one. Because they didn't win the back-to-back, but it was like every other year, San Antonio is there.

Exactly. And Tim, because of his unassuming personality, He gets lost in the conversation when we start talking about The best at ever played. I mean, because no, but because, again, we look at it. He wasn't flashing. He wasn't flashy.

I was like, Kareem. He's probably the greatest basketball player from high school. If you put his high school statistics, college statistics, and pro, nobody else stacks up to that. And I've said that for forever.

Okay, so your second is: this is going to be crazy.

So then I went with a five-man bench.

Okay.

I got Joker in there, Nicole Joker. I mean, you're talking one titles, one title, three MVPs, one final MVP, just dominant right now. He got that nod. D-Wade. There are three titles, one finals MVP, Flash.

I also got KD, Kevin Durant. Two titles, two finals MVPs. Kawhi. Two championships. Two different teams.

Two finals MVPs. I mean, that's the guy right there, man. And he was the best player on two championship teams. Obviously, this last one was tough, man. This last spot, because there were three guys I was trying to decide between.

Dirk Lavitsky. Yep. KG. And the guy I eventually went with. Yawnes.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I, and that was, that was the hardest to leave. Ah, those two of us. See, that, that second. Unit is a lot tougher, I think, than the first. Yeah, for sure.

Because it's not a lot of situation. Like, I had Jokic, of course. I had D-Wade. I had. Gay D, okay.

I had actually KG. I had Kevin Garnett. I had no problem with that.

Okay.

And I had Giannis. And it was Dirk is right there. And I'm like.

Okay, but it's a separate, it's a small, and then again, the list, people are going to put the list is semantics of what you want. And people are going to say, well, where's Alan Iverson? And first of all, you know, that Allen Iverson is my second favorite player of all time behind Dr. J, but I couldn't realistically put him on this list. And leave who?

Kawhi off? I mean, some people may not like it, but James Harden, what the numbers that he put together. Yeah.

Put together. But again, without a title. Without a title. Again, but seeing what Kawhi is doing. LeBron said titles really ring culture.

Don't. Yeah, I would say that too if I was over there with Steve Nash. Steve Nash, the two MVPs. Steve Nash, he was on, like I said, I had one. It was tough to cut that segment.

Well, you know, I was on, so during that season, I was with the Sons when he won. His second when Kobe averaged 37. That's that 06 Kobe. Yeah, 06 Kobe. And I ended up coming to the Lakers to play.

And we ended up playing Phoenix in the first round of the playoffs. Anyway, so I was there during that time when. That whole thing. And it's amazing to me too that. Shaquille and and Kobe have only won two in between the two of them now.

I mean, that's crazy. No, that's bananas. Yeah.

But it goes to show you, too, that in that mid-period, How I would say because of Tim Duncan, because of Shaq, because of the emergence of LeBron James, that it was a tough separation. Between and then it skewed down to winning. A lot had to do with the winning. Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, to the winner went to spoils. That was at the time when Phoenix wanted it 62 games. You know, the winner went to spoils, you know, a lot of times. But I thought Kobe deserved And shot more than What they've got. Yeah.

Yeah.

But make no mistake about this. Steve Nash was a bad, bad. And I was thinking this last night. I was just randomly start watching this Steve Nash highlight on YouTube after I posted the stuff on for no contest. Just watching him play.

I literally just went, man, I'm just watching Steve Nash. Let me tell you something. One time we were playing Golden State and I was on the, I wasn't starting, of course. I was coming off the bench. What do you mean, of course?

Jim Jackson. No, man, no, no. I was old at the time. But, you know, but here's the thing that I was mesmerized. First quarter of this game against Golden State, Steve orchestrated the offense like no other.

I mean, it was unreal. He was putting guys in places. And what made Steve so... Outstanding as a leader is that left hand, right hand. He can drop passes in off the wrong foot.

He's doing all this little stuff.

So, what Steve was really good at. Was he wasn't the fastest?

So once he gave it up like Steph, He'll catch it back on the move, which put his defender on his hip.

So then Steve could get downhill and turn the corner. You come, he's dropping John. I was sitting there. Watching. And then Mike D'Antonio is like calling me to come in again.

I couldn't even hear him. I was just sitting there. I'm like, because that's what Steve did. And you didn't expect it. From that man from santa clara yeah you knew what he did in dallas he was cool it was great But the stuff we saw in Phoenix, man, was just him and Steldemire to get it.

Bro, it was different, man. That boy get to lick his fingers, put the hair back, man. It was something. And also, Steve Nash. Bigger than you'd think.

I met him and Tony Parker. I'm 6'3. I met him and Tony Parker the same summer in New York, about a week apart. You look at them because there's giants out there, you assume they're small. Tony Parker and Steve Nash are both taller than me.

Yeah.

It's great, man. And I'm like four inches taller than you. Yeah.

So, you know, make believe. Listen, man, I truly appreciate you guys coming up. Let's go, Jim. What you got? The draft is coming up, right?

What's that? The NBA draft is coming up. Tomorrow's the draft. And before we go, it just made me think of something. You know, we talked about Shaq, his alter ego, Shaq Fu.

I still listen to Shaq's Shaq Diesel, the album on Times. Can you stand the rain? Yeah, yeah. But he had a song and a bar where he said, Who's the first pick, me? Word is boring.

Not a Christian Leighton, not Alonzo Morning, who went two and three. But what people might not realize is in that 1992 draft, do you know who got drafted fourth in that draft after Morning and Leighton? Just take a guess. Not me. I'll make it easier for you.

He might be in this room. Oh, man. Jimmy Jackson drafted. What do you remember about that 1992 draft, man? And like, your whole life changed.

I was doomed from the start because they moved it to Portland. No, no disrespect to Portland. No disrespect. And I played for the 12 players later on. But it was weird because you grow up and you're watching a draft as in New York.

Yeah.

Right? Yeah.

And they moved it to Portland, yeah. The only time going on back to New York the next year, right? But here was the interesting part: so that year. Pretty much everybody knew Shaq was going to be number one.

Now, Shaq and I came out of high school together 89, too.

So We were juniors, Christian and Alonzo were seniors. But two, three, and four. you really didn't know. Mm. Because it was Minnesota, Charlotte, and then Dallas.

Okay, so one pretty much shot. Two, three, four. It was open. It was open. So.

I knew I was in there somewhere, but I just didn't know until. Actually at the draft when they called my name.

So it wasn't predetermined. But you know what? Let me take that back. When Minnesota drafted Christian, I pretty much knew because they had traded Orlando Blackman from Dallas to New York.

So the two opened up. But. It's weird, man, because You work. To get to a certain point where you achieve a dream of getting drafted. And being drafted that high meant a lot, especially coming from Toledo, Ohio at the time.

And Who was playing college basketball? Yeah, there you go. Yes, you know, Mason. There you go. 419, all the way.

So, but. It's like a surreal moment. I can't even imagine. It's like. It's the beginning, it's not the ending of anything.

It's the beginning of something special. The rest of your life.

Okay, the rest of your life. You worked your way 18 years.

Well, really, you know, I wouldn't. And I was out the womb. But let's say 12 years, it just really. This working to get to this point. And everything you sacrifice those.

It was a combination of that. I think Emotional It was excitement. But then it's also, I pat myself on the back. You put in the work to put yourself in this position. To be here, but it was a combination too of having a very successful college career with some great teammates.

If we don't win, if we don't do the things that we do, I may not be in that position. You know what I'm saying? To be fourth pick.

So it's a lot of things. It's not just one singular.

Now, some people can compartmentalize it and say it was this. To me, it was. all the people that helped me along the way. You know, to get to that point. You know, to keep me away from things, but to push me to really focus on.

Becoming the best player. And then it's a reflection of, like you said, a lot of things I gave up. To put myself in a position where I thought I was giving up. Yeah.

Um, To be able to be the best basketball player I could be at that time.

Now, whatever happened after that, you know, some things were out of my control, like when I got hurt my third year. Those damn Air Hirwatchi sneakers. Bro, yeah, I know. And Nike, and it's still my people, but how that altered my career.

So you got it in your mind what you think is going to be. Mm. But then the path of a professional Even though we may try to set things up the way we want it to go. Hallebert in the play in the championship game. You know, right there for that moment, you built up for and then the injury happens.

And where you go from there, you don't know. He'll come back. Yeah.

He'll be strong. He's in a dark spot right now. But can you get back to the title? You know, when I got hurt, it was a different time period. I had a third-degree sprain, and they said it's better if you would have broken it.

I'm a right-handed player jumping off my left foot. I lost everything. My explosion, everything.

So my total. Career from Where I was at. Totally changed.

Now, you had just dropped 50, right, before that injury? Not too long, not too long before, the night before. We played at Washington at 44.

Okay.

So this was a back-to-back going into Jersey back to back. Back to back. And I'm, you know, but it was a fluke, it was a fluke accident. I didn't, you know, part of it, I didn't tape. But like I said, those Hirachis have a lot of superstitions, right?

You got any superstitions? Oh, absolutely. Right? So my superstition. I didn't change the style of shoe I wore.

Okay, and I didn't tape at the time. Yeah, you minded that.

Okay, but I didn't change the style.

So Nike said, We want you to wear these hirachis. And I'm like, oh man, I don't know if I want to wear them.

So I said, you know, I'm going to do it. I'm warming up in the layup line. And I said, man, these shoes are too soft. Yeah.

I said, but you know what? I'm going to play the first half. I'm going to change it at halftime. Yeah.

First quarter. I come across the lane, Jason Williams, taller Jason, step on his foot. Net Jason. Net Jason. Play for the Nets.

Philly also. Um stepped on his foot. Pour my ankle up right there. My decision was: don't wear these shoes, change them. I said, no, you know what?

I'm going to wait till I have time. Mm. And it totally changed my career. And then however, Halliburton finds a way to to handle this freak accident. Just ties back into everything we were talking about, which is your decisions of what to do and what not to do.

On that one, we're going to end it, man. I appreciate this, bro. And I want to come on your show, too, when you had some wrestlers so I could just learn some more about it. Because I lost a little bit of it as I got older, got away from it. But, man, it used to come on every Saturday when I was younger.

Saturday night, 605. Why was it 605 on TVS? On TBS, right? TBS, everything ran in 605. I never understood why.

But I tell this story all the time. In my house, Saturday night came. If you were watching something. It had better be over at 6.04.

So we can turn it, put on my grandpa. I literally saw the man walk up, because this is before remotes at a certain point, walk up to the TV and turn it down. And you know, we had to channel channel three, and then there was a little box. You had to hit TV. It didn't matter.

It better be over by 6.04 because we're watching Gordon Soley. Gordon Soley, baby. We got to end it on the Gordon Soley note, man. I appreciate it. I mentioned him earlier.

That's why, brother. I appreciate it. Best of luck, man. I love seeing the success that your path is taking you on. And I love to see it.

It's always good to have you on the show, brother. Thank you, man. You know, I'm just out here trying to make moves. Living just enough for the city. You know what I'm saying?

I always get lucky to find myself as the number two to a solid number one, and I'm okay with that. Hey, some great number two, brother. Great number two. Thanks a lot, man. I appreciate it.

Absolutely. You my dad. T, I got you over there. I got this worked out, man. It's fun.

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