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Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Coming up, ESPN Senior Writer Don Van Natta, NFL Network Insider Tom Pellicero, plus your phone calls, latest news, and more. And now, it's Rich Eisen. Hour number two of the Rich Eisen Show is on the air. What a delight with Ike Baron-Holtzen, hour number one. The studio on Apple TV right here on Roku. Everybody check it out.
It's so much fun. He was just going down a Chicago sports, I guess, it's not a rant, not a diatribe, but he's just all excited about the Pope. What it means for Chicago sports.
844-204, Rich is the number to dial. We'll talk to Don Van Natta shortly from ESPN, one of the best investigative reporters in the business. He was the one who broke the news yesterday that Pete Rose is going to be reinstated by Major League Baseball. Same thing with Shoeless Joe Jackson, that it is a lifetime ban, not an eternal ban from baseball.
And once you've passed on and shuffled your mortal coil, you can get a plaque in Cooperstown. And we'll talk about it with Don Van Natta shortly. Tom Pellicero in hour number three. Schedule release show day. And as always, my mission critical is being, I guess, compromised right now. The leaks are off the charts.
I haven't broken my NDA. I haven't gotten the schedule yet. They won't give it to me till I walk in the door an hour after this show. Do you want me to tell you what week one looks like?
I can tell you about Thursdays. We'll talk about that in hour three before Tom Pellicero joins us. And we didn't discuss this yesterday because we just got stuck on talking about so many other amazing things in the sports world. The draft lottery wound up with Cooper Flag dropping into the lap of the Dallas Mavericks. And Nico Harrison went from bag fumbler to holding all the cards. The ultimate card, the greatest hand being dealt by the NBA draft lottery.
Maybe, well, since Wambunyama. And after that, one of the better hands dealt, you can remember, certainly with J. Billis, who would know, calling Cooper Flag the greatest freshman in the history of Duke basketball. And they've had a ton of them. They've had a ton of them.
And let me just address first. Anybody who thinks that the NBA decided to make Dallas whole because they were the ones who, on behalf of the NBA, gave the Lakers their next generational superstar in the latest line of generational superstars, just as their current generational superstar is getting set to retire, is just off their rockers, out of their gourds. It is just the silliest notion possible.
There isn't enough NDAs to be given out to prevent anything like that leaking out. It's insane is really what it is and would require, as Howard Beck of the Ringer said yesterday, the complicity of your Sixers. You think Daryl Morey would be just like, sure. You know what, Niko Harrison just decided to have the greatest pocket listing in the history of NBA trades and is completely on the hot seat in Dallas. The fans hate him there.
Sure. I mean, the Lakers have Luka now, and that's the most important franchise in the NBA. So you take Cooper Flag, put him in Dallas. We don't need him here, right? The Utah Jazz, who got absolutely hosed again by the draft lottery.
Yeah, Danny Angels. He's cool with it. Well, I mean, the owners there, sure. The owner who's sitting there, she was happy to be complicit in making sure the Mavericks are properly compensated for their hard work of giving Luka to the Lakers, because that's the most important thing for the NBA, is to make the Lakers happy out of all the other 29 franchises. It makes complete and total sense. All those folks were complicit. Ernst & Young would absolutely place their brand on this fraud, which it would be stupid. But the NBA is, out of all the sports, the biggest conspiracy theory hornet's nest?
For sure. They've had so many fishy things over the years, dating way back. But, you know, starting with the first lottery and then Michael Jordan's retirement. Don't forget the Chris Paul trade to the Lakers that got rescinded. The nixing of that trade to the Lakers. That's why the lottery runs completely counter to the current conspiracy theory where the Lakers are catered to. Right.
Right. And then first round picks. But everyone brings up the first round picks. So then why didn't Zion go to the Knicks? And why wasn't that rigged?
Oh, it's rigged for New Orleans? What are we doing? Exactly.
What are we doing? That's really dumb. And unfortunately, Tim Donaghy gave credence to all the tinfoil hat wearers. He did. That's part of the problem.
Yeah, he did. So there's that one thing. So the draft lottery itself is the problem. Because they're anti-tanking formula to give the three worst records, the teams with the three worst records, the same chance of winning the number one overall pick, 14 percent, that leads to an evening of the playing field. Thus, they'll be less tanking, as if the Jazz Wizards and Hornets didn't remove stars or suddenly a lot of, oh, my arm or illnesses.
Right. We have a fantasy league. If you've got a basketball, an NBA fantasy league, you see the reasons why some of these stars are out. Certainly, if you're in the playoffs, two weeks to go in the season, all of a sudden, oh, yeah, now we're going to have season-ending surgeries.
We're going to have illnesses that can't be explained, although clearly Porzingis is not one of them. I'm not equating these things. You see what I'm saying, right?
So it really doesn't stop some of this behavior. But what it does is it doesn't allow the Wizards, Jazz or Hornets to get the top three picks in the NBA draft. And as a matter of fact, they're not even in the top, none of the three are in the top three picks.
The best odds didn't even put them in the top three. So what are we doing? And you guys, I think, if I'm not mistaken, because I hear what you talk about before we're on the air. I hear it. I may look like I'm a lead pipe wielding professional who's only locked in on one thing. I'm a lead pipe wielding professional that can do two things at once. Like maybe listen. I'm cutting deals, as you may or may not know.
I've read that. So I can also listen and do something else, unlike my audio executive, whose job it is to listen and do something else. God bless you. You got your Emmys and all that business. But the reason why I bring all this up is I hear it. Do you guys really, really, really want to bring the draft lottery to the National Football League? Yes.
Are you out of your skull then? I told you yesterday, let me set the scene for you. It's you the Thursday before the Super Bowl, man. And now it's pomp and circumstance, Chris. And there's a you know, you got legends representing each team.
And here comes Rich with the microphone and oh, boom, we're pulling envelopes out of the hat. Sure. Yeah. Why not you? You know what?
Are you saying that just because you know, I'm so dead set against it that you think like what you're well, I'm trying to I think you're kind of good at your job. That's why I was on this a decade ago. I think it's a great idea. It's another gigantic event.
We know that the NFL loves events. It's something you could televise. Greenie made a passionate case for it today on get up. Why are you against it?
Yeah. Why? Because you need to convince us that it's not a good idea. Because every other major sport now does this because they have a problem with tanking. The NFL does not have a problem with what is Major League Baseball's issue with there is no tanking in Major League. Well, it's because the way that things are all constructed with their salary structure, that there's only a handful of teams that can actually win the sport hockey. The National Hockey League has a tanking problem. We think the NBA has a tanking problem because it has because of load management. But that is to keep players healthy for the playoffs and football.
You said it yourself. You can't take in the NFL. So why are we rewarding these crappy run organizations and teams that can't develop players, which we've seen historically? Why are we sending the best players to those teams? Because those franchises need to have fan bases that feel that they can actually make the playoffs in just a span of one or two drafts. New England Patriot fan who keeps talking about how everything's turned around.
That's why you have hope. Could you imagine you have one of the worst seasons the Patriots have had in a long ass time and you don't get Drake May because a ping pong ball doesn't pop the right way? We didn't get the first pick either year because they won games. That was stupid.
Guess what? That actually happened because you have to win games in the NFL. There's actual consequences. You need to win all the way to the end. There's a grown ass man league where there is an actual desire to win regardless of how many losses you have. Those other leagues don't care about winning? No, they don't.
How does that sound? There's zero difference. So you're saying the football players and the organizations care more about winning? Hell yeah. Case in point, the Dallas Cowboys don't care about winning.
How many times have I said this since I've been in this mic? The New York Jets, the Cleveland Browns, all these teams don't care about winning. They don't care about making money. They don't care about building the Cowboys brand.
They don't care about winning football games. What if the New England Patriots wound up losing the opportunity to get Drake May because a team that traded away one of their greatest stars, leaving a massive gaping hole in their roster, their locker room, but most importantly, the hearts and minds of their fan base. It doesn't happen in the NFL though. It doesn't happen in the NFL. When Luca got traded, didn't we come on the show and say it would be equivalent of the Bills trading Josh Allen or something like that? And just because he was overweight and they didn't want to spend money on him or whatever reason, and they just called up, they'd call up the Dallas Cowboys, let's say they needed Josh Allen, and just say, we're only going to trade them to you. People go crazy. Let's just say that team that did, the Buffalo Bills did it.
Let's just say they did it. And they have an opportunity to get Drake May instead because you didn't have the ping pong balls dropping the right way. And your entire season where you're like, at least at the end of the rainbow, we're going to have a top draft choice where we can get one of these great quarterbacks that I'm seeing play every single Saturday on college football Saturdays. And you don't get them because a ping pong ball doesn't drop the right way.
You would be losing your mind. We lost out on those two years in a row because of meaningless victories at the end of the season. And the meaningless victories happen because it means a lot to win football games. Drake May wasn't considered in the same class as Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels, remember? And by winning a meaningless game that you saw in person, they lost out on the opportunity to take one of those two players. And then again, it happened again this year, lost out on the opportunity to take either Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter. It happened two years in a row. Now the lottery makes that possible.
No, thank you. No way. I don't get why you're not on board with this. The reason why the NFL is so popular amongst many others, and I understand there's many others like gambling. There's also many others like it only happens once a week, so there's a whole buildup to things. Way less games. There's fewer games.
I got all of those things. The reason why is there's hope. There is hope right now in Tennessee.
Last year, the commanders went from a superfund site to a super place to play. Yes, but that hope can exist, say, if you win the lottery. But you don't earn the right to draft that person because you suck so bad. You own the right to draft that person because you are lucky, despite your sucking, like trading away Luka Doncic. Or in the case of the Miami Heat, now the lottery has given the Heat pause to say, we shouldn't have even made the playoffs. But in the NFL. Because if after we made the playoffs, we weren't in the slot that the Mavericks were in, the ping pong balls would have dropped.
They would have had Cooper Flag, and they were in a better position to win short term, long term than they are the Wizards or the Jazz or the Hornets. But the major difference between the NFL and the NBA is that in the NFL, major stars do not get traded. Davante Adams got traded. Not in his prime.
Not at the height of their powers. Russell Wilson traded at the end of his career. Look at what has happened since. His career is basically over. We just talked about Davante Adams. He got traded to the Raiders. He had two 1,200 yard seasons. That's his prime. That's one guy.
He's an anomaly. Wide receivers are not quarterbacks. We're talking about the guys who make the biggest difference. The guys on the cover of the video games and the magazines.
Like Emmett doesn't leave until he's like older. This has nothing to do with the fact of, okay, we'll never agree on this and it's never going to happen anyway. And the NFL's got a pretty good event. I think they're wrong on that.
The NFL's got a pretty good event the Thursday before the Super Bowl in the NFL Honors. They can eventize that. They don't need another one.
I think you're wrong about that. I think the draft is coming. This is a sport that needed years to figure out do we want to make instant replay permanent.
It was staring them right in the face of what to do. And they just they they ruminate, then they wait, they talk about it in the unintended concert. They will never, ever have a draft lottery in the NFL. I'll take that. I'll take that bet too. Great. I'll take that bet. The only issue is are you going to turn down the offer to host it? I'm contractually obligated to do what they ask of me.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Friday night hosting this. Honors could be amazing. I will not host it.
It'll be. I don't think we have a deputy commissioner. Whoever's the whoever's the most smiley faced individual in the NFL will get it because that's the Mark Tatum role. I don't know.
Who's the next guy up? Look at him. He's so happy. He's so happy that like nobody's worn more of a smile to tell a franchise they're screwed. Quite like Mark Tatum.
Who's the NFL's Mark Tatum though? Oh my God. You're crazy for not wanting this. You are crazy for wanting it. Then that makes me crazy too, Chris.
I want the event. Let's take a break. Don Van Natta knows NFL membership better than most human beings on the planet. We will ask him what he thinks and he will absolutely agree with me. And you guys are morons. That's what he will say.
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See store or sleepnumber.com for details. So, unbelievably, as you know, the news breaking that the Major League Baseball commissioner is reinstating Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson to name two. From the permanently ineligible list to being eligible. Now, I guess we're enshrining in the Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum. And the Reds tonight have, as planned, weeks and months in advance, tonight in Cincinnati is Pete Rose night. Oh wow. And they are hosting the White Sox.
Shut up. Is there going to be like an official reinstatement ceremony behind home plate? Remember they used to give Mariano Rivera and Jeter and Big Poppy gifts when they were retiring?
Is there like a reinstatement night? That's wild. You know? You know what's awesome?
The Reds play on the FanDole Sports TV network. Oh my God. You can't make it up, man.
You can't make it up. So on reinstatement night, do they give away a Rob Manfred bobblehead that shakes his head mostly and then finally nods yes at the end? And you get a free three team parlay.
I don't know if that's appropriate. What do you mean? Major League Baseball lost all their standing on this when they took the gambling money and they had Bally's as a TV partner. Every league does that now, man.
So Pete should have been in a long time ago. Well, just because they have partners that allow you as a human being to bet on their sport doesn't mean that that means people who are involved in the sport should be allowed to do it, Chris. Wow. There's a difference there. You and I disagree. There's a difference there.
You work for the sport. But can you believe it? The day after this news breaks. Do you think he planned that?
The Reds are playing the White Sox. Did Rob plan that, you think? On Pete Rose night.
Maybe. I don't know. Pretty good. Shown on FanDole TV. The big news. Yesterday we led our show with it that Pete Rose being taken off the permanently ineligible list along with Shoeless Joe Jackson and seven others, many of them for the Chicago Black Sox of 1919.
The man who broke that story from ESPN, Don Van Natta Jr., ESPN senior writer back here on The Rich Isaac Show. Good to see you, Don. How are you? Doing great, Rich.
Great to be with you. So walk me through the decision by Commissioner Rob Manfred as you know it. Don. Well, Jeffrey Lenkoff, the lawyer for Pete Rose and the Rose family had been pushing for this since 2015.
This is a long time coming. And I think people have overlooked that Rob Manfred had an opportunity to put Pete Rose back into baseball in December of 2015. Manfred met with Rose. Rose lied to Manfred in that meeting. Rose said to Manfred, I'm not betting on baseball anymore when in fact he was.
He corrected himself. And for that reason, Manfred rejected that reinstatement application. So as Lenkoff says, this was a long time coming. But obviously the decision coming seven months after Pete's death at the age of 83 last September has raised eyebrows. Why did Manfred wait so long? Rose predicted repeatedly in the last few years of his life, including with an interview that I did with him back in 2019 for ESPN, that it was very likely that he was going to be inducted into the Hall of Fame after his death. He said, what good does that do me?
How am I going to know? I mean, the Hall of Fame is for Pete to have a single day in Cooperstown. And the timing of it certainly raises questions. I think if you were to ask the commissioner, the commissioner would say Rose was his own worst enemy. And the door was open slightly to Rose getting back into baseball multiple times, going back to 2015, again in 2022 when he had a visit in Philadelphia and said some things that upset a lot of people at that event in August of 2022. And the commissioner and the people around him would say that Rose really did this to himself. But the decision now, seven months after the fact, and the decision that Manfred made, which is historic, it's unprecedented, saying anybody who is on an ineligible list is off the list at the time of their death.
Of course, it affects shoeless Joe Jackson most notably, who certainly deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, as does Pete Rose, is really noteworthy and important. So I guess then why now, right? Why announce it here in the middle of May of 2025, Don? Last December, on December 17th, Manfred, in his office in Midtown Manhattan, met with Jeffrey Lenkoff, the Rose lawyer, and Fawn Rose, Rose's daughter, and that's really where the momentum started growing. Again, three months after Pete Rose's death. And then on January 8th, Lenkoff filed that petition. And I think finally, Manfred, who comes to decisions painstakingly slow, as we know, it took him years to adapt the pitch clock and all sorts of rules changes that have certainly turbocharged fan interest in Major League Baseball. He was very, very slow to coming to this decision, too, and finally made it yesterday. To your point, it does appear as if it's scripted, right, that on the eve of Pete Rose night at Great American Ballpark in Cincinnati, where Rose's lawyer will be and his family will be, this decision comes down.
That's certainly very, very curious. And of course, the Reds playing the White Sox, the opponents. So the 1919 World Series that was fixed by the Black Sox is certainly curious. But Manfred, I had reported back in 2020, Rich, that Manfred, for all intents and purposes, believed that once you pass away, you're no longer on the ineligible list. I broke that story for ESPN in January of 2020. Again, why it took Rob Manfred, you know, five years and a few months to come to that decision, it raises the question of whether MLB really didn't want Rose to have a day in Cooperstown.
And now finally, after his death, it's looking like he might get one. Well, maybe on Pete Rose night with the White Sox in after this announcement in Cincinnati, Don, they should have some sort of ceremony where there's an official reinstatement for Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson after two and two thirds innings, they stopped the game because at that point in time, the White Sox will have had eight men out, Don, right? Like we can, like, let's keep going. Let's keep going. If these decisions are made for marketing purposes, let's just keep going, right? I like that, Rich.
That's a great idea. Yeah. The John Sayles movie. Let's get that back. It's such a great movie. I love that movie. We both love it. We've talked about it.
Yeah, it's fantastic. You know, and I was actually I was talking to my baseball nut of a 14 year old son last night about all of this. When he's like, Dad, was Shoeless Joe Jackson good? And, you know, I couldn't basically say other than the fact that, yes, he was great and he should be in the Hall of Fame. I couldn't point out to him that one of the reasons why he should be in the Hall of Fame is the World Series. He was accused of helping throw. He hit three seventy five. The only home run of the World Series didn't commit an error.
He's like the worst tanker in the history, worst guy on the take in the history of guys on the take. You know what I mean? That's right.
That's right. You know, he had 12 hits and, you know, he played his heart out. And there has been a campaign for years going back to the 90s in particular for Shoeless Joe Jackson. The legislature, the legislature in South Carolina was petitioning Major League Baseball. This is a footnote that a lot of people don't realize. So John Dowd, who did the Rose investigation, the famous Dowd report, also was asked by Bart Giamatti to investigate Shoeless Joe Jackson, whether Giamatti should take Jackson off the ineligible list. And Dowd concluded absolutely he should and recommended that to Giamatti before he did the Rose investigation.
And Giamatti didn't choose to do that. All these years later, finally, Shoeless Joe will get his opportunity. But no one deserves it more than Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose getting plaques in the Hall of Fame. You know, Jackson at three fifty six is the fourth largest or fourth best batting average in MLB history. And obviously Rose, the all time hit king. You know, so many records. He liked to say that he was the winningest person to ever play professional sports in American history. Won one thousand nine hundred and seventy two games. You know, forty two fifty six hits. I mean, everything about Rose and just Charlie Hustle, the greatest nickname probably in all sports.
And finally, I think it's looking likely and I want to be careful about that. We can talk about that. Rich, if you like, of this committee is a committee is some former players, executives and a few media people on the 16 person committee that will likely decide the fate of Rose and Jackson, whether they finally get plaques in Cooperstown.
Well, let's get into that. Don Van Natta Jr. here on the Rich Eisen Show, because to mix sports metaphors here, the Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum in Cooperstown, New York, is officially on the clock. And the committee that will consider Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson, just name two, for enshrinement, will not vote on the list of players that needs to be compiled in the meantime until December of twenty twenty seven. Is there any groundswell to speed this process up that these guys have waited long enough? Their fans certainly have waited long enough and family.
What do you think, Don? Well, that's certainly what Jeff Lenkov, the Rose family lawyer, is pushing for. When I spoke to him yesterday, he said he's going to petition the hall immediately for them to vote sooner, preferably during this upcoming off season. Now, whether they choose to do that or not, I believe that's up to the historical committee first that first has to forward the nominees to the baseball era committee that will ultimately decide. That's the 16 member committee.
Twelve people have to vote. So 75 percent of that committee has to approve it. But we'll see if there's a groundswell. I know that Jeff Lenkov and the Rose family would like it to happen sooner rather than later.
They're obviously they've been fighting for a long time for this and they don't want to have to wait another two and a half years. Yeah. You were I'm just reading from your article about the historical overview committee will be voting on it. But the classic baseball era committee will develop will be the one voting on it.
The historical overview committee has to develop the ballot of names. And I mean, come on. I mean, there should be now that this is removed.
I mean, this is a this is there shouldn't be any question here. So the question I have, Don, is you mentioned plaque. OK. And I know Acosta has been the forefront of this in many venues over the last several years. Let Pete in. Put on the plaque that he he was suspended. Put on the list for gambling and what he did. Just put on the plaque as part of his story, what he did and what baseball did with him for it.
Does that still maybe even hold water with this ban being lifted? And who is to decide what's on the plaque? Don, do we know? I believe that's I don't I actually don't know the answer to that, Rich. It's an excellent question. I assume somebody attached to the hall decides that whether there will be a line. I agree with Costas.
I've said before as well that that's the way to solve this. Another suggestion is that you have a sort of a wing of the hall, a wing of infamy or infamous players. That you know, you have to move Ty Cobb over there.
There's there's quite a few people that already have plaques, right? That would have to be moved over to that hall, that infamous hallway. Let me just say this, Don. That would be one of the worst decisions ever if there's now a proprietary propriety committee. Right. Like and who's to decide, you know, who should be in the Hall of Shame, if you will. You know what I mean?
Like, I don't know. But but putting something on a plaque. Now, that's a different story. And and I think that's part of the story to tell, because this entire time Rose was ineligible from, as he would always point out, he couldn't talk to young hitters at a stadium. He was banned from baseball activities. It really was the Hall of Fame's doing to basically say that includes us. I mean, baseball's never really instructed Cooperstown what to do, right?
You're absolutely right, Rich. So in 1989, when Barci Amati came up with an agreement, it was an agreement that he struck with Rose and his lawyers that Rose was going to accept this indefinite penalty of being out of baseball. The expectation that Rose had and he has said this, he said this repeatedly during his life, that he thought it was going to be one or two years and then Giamatti was going to let him back in. Now, Giamatti insisted that Rose was going to have to reconfigure his life. That's that key language that Manfred looked at in 2015. And you could argue that Rose did not reconfigure his life because he denied betting on baseball for 15 years.
It wasn't until 2004 when he wrote that book that he finally admitted something that was so obvious if you read the Dowd report. But, you know, I think that putting a line in the plaque that Rose was banned for baseball for all these years is absolutely the right way to go. You put a line in Shoeless Joe's plaque, the same thing that, you know, Jackson was banned in 1921. Think about that. One hundred and four years ago by Kennesaw Mountain Landis, the first commissioner of baseball who was literally hired to investigate the Black Sox scandal and knocked eight of those Black Sox players out of baseball for their entire lives, you put a line in his plaque. And that's certainly the way to do it.
You said it so well earlier, Rich. It's not just the Hall of Fame. It's a Hall of Fame and museum. And when you go there in Cooperstown, Rose is everywhere. There's posters, there's a bat from his 44-game hitting streak.
Rose is there. He's present, except in the hall with the plaques. And so one way to do it, since it is a museum and it should actually record baseball history, is you put a line or two at the very end of that plaque.
There's a lot of stats that are going to have to go on both those guys' plaques, but you put one line or a line and a half summarizing the ban from baseball and why it happened. All right, let's talk a little football, Don Van Natta, before I let you go. Can you do me a favor and investigate who's leaking all this stuff for the schedule release? Can I give you an assignment? Can I can I send you on this?
What's going on here? I had to sign an NDA because, by the way, I don't know if you're aware, because you do know a lot. You know where a lot of paperwork's coming from, Don. I have been deemed by the National Football League mission critical for tonight's schedule release. Really? Yes, that's because I got an NDA.
The schedule is given to only a select few on the executive flowchart, and it's up to them to deliver it to others in the NFL who are deemed mission critical. That's me. Wow. But it's good. What's going on, Don?
Can you look into this for me? Next to that best dad ever, you need mission critical. A little sign there, right, Chris? Show, Don. Show, Don. See, this is real.
Oh, OK. Actually, it's a movie in theaters this summer called Mission Critical. That's me and my best, you know, CSI Miami, David Cruz. Like it. But what are you working on with the NFL right now, Don?
I know you always are. What are you working on that you're willing to share right now? I wish I could tell you about the current project. It's one I'm really excited about working on with my colleague Seth Wickersham. It's coming soon. But I'm also on the side working on the Jerry Jones biography, which I'm really excited about. Glad to be entitled The Star and working on that as well.
That's going to come out next year. Let me ask this. Why does he always pay players late, Don? Why does he not take care of guys that we all know sitting on our couches at home, that they're cowboys for life as long as they keep playing the way that they do, that he lets others set the market before he acts and winds up paying top, top dollar?
Don, do you have a sense? It's inexplicable. No, it's pure stubbornness. It's the way he's always done it. You're not going to teach the old dog new tricks.
And I agree. He costs his team money every single time he does it. He hurts himself against the salary cap.
It doesn't work. You would think that Stephen or other folks around him would advise not to do it. But that's the way Jerry's always done it. And that's the way he prefers to do it. And it's counterproductive to the team managing the salary cap.
It's a problem. I just didn't know if investigating his life, it's what his dad did when he was a kid. He didn't get it.
You know what? He waited to give Jerry his weekly allowance until the last second. And Jerry would just say, but my friend around the corner is making more than what you're giving me. And then all of a sudden he would get. I just don't know if it's like something deep-seated in his childhood, Don.
I just don't know. I wish I could draw a through line from Jerry's father, the unbelievable story of his father. I'm having so much fun with that portion of the book. There's a lot of lessons Jerry learned from his father that he actually implements and follows to this day. But that's not one of them, unfortunately. I wish I could find evidence. But there's quite a few others that I think will surprise people of the Pat Jones. His dad's name was Pat.
He was a grocer in North Little Rock. As big a showman or even a bigger showman, if it's possible, to believe than Jerry. And he plays an outsized role in my book, because obviously he plays an outsized role in Jerry's life, even to this day. Thinks about him, talks about his dad all the time. But no, I haven't found evidence for that yet, Rich.
But I'll keep looking. Is that what's led Jerry to potentially win his first Emmy for his appearance in Landman, talking about family and the importance of family, Don? Absolutely.
Oh, yeah. The Landman clip is, that's really Jerry. That's truly Jerry.
He had no script. They sat him down. And I've heard him tell that story almost word for word to me, sitting in his office at the Star. And that's Jerry Jones, unplugged.
He tears well up in his eyes often when he talks about his father, his mother, his upbringing, the lessons they taught him, as well as being able to work with his three children and how important that is to him. That is really Jerry. That's not Jerry the showman or Jerry Mr. Sizzle. That's Jerry really, the heart and soul of him is that.
And working with his family is one of the most important things to him. And he should win the Emmy. He was fantastic in that scene.
And he was the best thing about it. Did you see the whole series? I did.
I love it. I thought it was really good too. But I thought that was the best scene. He stole the series. I had no idea he was showing up.
Neither did my wife. We're watching it together. We watched that scene a second time.
We're like, oh my God. And by the way, that's Jon Hamm and that's Billy Bob in the same scene with him. And he dominated.
Again, that's pretty awesome. He took those two incredible actors to school, exactly. You could see the awe on their face, right, Rich?
I mean, they were like, wow, we're in the presence of greatness. I often say about Jerry, he is one of the best, if not the best, storytellers I've come across in my journalism career. I've been a journalist now 35 years. And there's no one better telling stories. And you just sit wrapped listening to him. Sometimes it's the same story.
You will hear like, you will hear. He forgets sometimes he's told me the story five, six, seven different times. But he will tell it slightly differently. But he is an incredible storyteller. And that storytelling ability has been basically adopted by the National Football League.
It's now a 365-day-a-year league, as we know. A lot of that is because of Jerry's ability to tell a great story. And, you know, they dominate the sports calendar.
And Jerry, as I'll point out in the book in many different ways, is a big reason for that. He's an architect in so many ways of the astonishing success of the National Football League. Well, speaking as a 22-year-now and counting employee of the NFL Network, Don, Pat Bolen, Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, three crucial owners in the creation and nurturing of NFL Network to this point.
Before I let you go, I got about two minutes here. I told my guys were arguing with me. They think the NFL should institute the draft lottery like the NBA does. I said it'll never happen.
They think I'm out of my mind. You know NFL membership better than most. Do you really think the NFL would ever institute a draft lottery like the NBA does? And the rest of Major League Baseball and the NHL, Don? It's a great question. I think there is certainly a chance of it.
But let me back up first. The old school owners are not going to want to mess with success. And, you know, this is the way the draft has been done forever.
Pete Roseau used to do it, you know, on a whiteboard way back in the 60s. And how it's grown is remarkable. However, if there is a way to monetize it, if you can put a sponsor on the draft, on the draft lottery, or some way to make more money, I would bet that that is something that the NFL owners will consider doing. Because that is what they are constantly looking for. I mean we're looking now at a $25 billion a year business that has grown remarkably. And the reason it's grown like that is because any chance to monetize any aspect of the sport the NFL owners embrace. And so if there is a way to monetize it, Rich, they'll make it happen. Brought to you by Powerball.
You know what I mean? Listen, the reason why it makes that much money, among many reasons, is because I think the fan bases are into it because they feel like their team is never out of it because they can hit the figurative lottery by drafting a player high. It would be insane, I think, for the NFL to attempt to do something like that. I agree, and I say it tongue-in-cheek. But you're right, the secret sauce of the NFL's success is parody. There's no question. And that was invented by Pete Rozelle. Tech Shram had a lot to do with it as well. It's just, you know, any given Sunday, have every team have a chance to win, and every year have that hope spring eternal.
And, yeah, the draft is obviously so hardwired into that idea that parody is what makes the league so successful that, yeah, I would be surprised if they mess with success, even if they can monetize it. Don, you're the man. Love our chats. Always look for more of my techs to say, hey, great job, nice scoop, come on, let's talk about it. Thanks, Don.
Anytime, Rich. Great to see you. Don Van Natter, Jr., everybody, from ESPN. And I said that just like Jeremy Shap would say goodbye. What was it like shooting that scene, though, with Ray Kinsella and his father? I mean, how long did it take to figure out how to play that? Well, we had to do that. You notice that we did that at Magic Hour. You also notice that when that shot pulled back and you saw all those cars, you know, now, but that would have been CG'd. But that was technically, that was all extras that we called on the radio, come be in our movie. And they created that big traffic jam. Hold on a second. So that traffic jam, that's a real?
That's a real shot. And the people from Iowa came and saw so many people feel like they were part of that movie. So those thousands and thousands of cars that were in that giant traffic jam that went out on those two lanes, that was real. But in terms of playing it, in terms of, as you said, the quiet moment, how did you work that, Kevin? Well, what I did was I went back to when I first read it. And so I become the audience when I read it. And when I read it, I went, I couldn't believe that it had orchestrated itself to that thing. And I had that feeling on the couch. And so I knew if I played that straight, if I didn't wink at anybody, that these players did come. You know, that's my corn.
You know, Phil Robinson is the architect of that movie. You know, I tell a story, you know, and I don't tell a lot of them. But, you know, they kept coming after me. I wasn't going to be able to do that movie. I was going to do Revenge.
And I got into a, finally Revenge kept getting pushed, kept getting pushed. And finally I had to put my foot down and say, look, if you don't get this movie together, I'm going to go do this movie in the corn. I asked the director, why did you hold out for me so long?
Why? And he said, well, and this is one of the greatest actors we've ever seen. He goes, they wanted me to do Robin Williams. And I said, Robin Williams is perfect. He said, yeah, but when I think of Robin, I think he does hear voices in the corn. And I don't want that.
People don't believe you hear voices. And that was a really interesting, that's a director that makes a save. That's a Mariano Rivera, you know, it's a save. He saved his movie because of his belief in an idea, you know, not the quality of actor because Robin Williams will never, this is a guy so special. But I was curious. I said, he's actually a bigger star than me, you know, whatever. And he goes, I need somebody that you don't think hears voices. And that would be you.
I've never heard Robin Williams was considered for that role. That's unbelievable. And then you did it and obviously we're talking about it today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It had gold dust on it when I read it because I did that little intake of breath. Do you want to have a catch?
And of course I wept myself. All of Kevin Costner's appearances here in the Rich Eisen Show studio available on our YouTube channel. YouTube.com slash Rich Eisen Show for all of that good stuff. That was a good chat with Don Van Natta saying that he said he wouldn't put it past NFL owners if they could monetize it. But then he said he would be surprised if they instituted a draft lottery in the NFL. OK, so it's happening. It's not happening. You're out of your mind, man. I might be, but I don't think there's any way it doesn't happen.
What do you mean it doesn't? We are going to have multiple teams this year. You're talking about discouraging tanking. We are going to have multiple teams this season tanking for these top quarterbacks that are coming out next year. I would disagree, to say the least. What do you think?
Kellen Moore is going to lose 14 games on purpose his first year. Jeff in Pasadena, California, right here on the Rich Eisen Show. What's up, Jeff? Hey, Richard.
Good morning. What's up, Jeffrey? I have an interesting story. I was three weeks after Pete Rose had lied to Commissioner Manfred. I'm in a luxury suite at the hockey game for the Super Bowl in New York, New Jersey. You remember that? They had Islanders play Rangers in Yankee Stadium.
OK. So I got Manfred in a luxury suite, and the first thing I ask him when he walks in the door and introduces himself is, what's up with Pete Rose? And he just kind of gave a political answer.
And I said, and how is this going to affect Barry Bonds? And then he avoided me the rest of the evening. No, that's not interesting, Jeff. He went Pasadena on you, huh? I'm going to Pasadena talking to Jeff in Pasadena. OK. Makes sense.
He's the former NFL insider for Sky Sports, and I can tell you this, there's no way the NFL does the draft lottery. Jeff in Pasadena, bless you for understanding. You're right. Never going to happen. Thank you, Jeff in Pasadena.
Ladies and gentlemen, call back. It's never going to happen. Well, since Jeff in Pasadena said it. No, he said he's his former NFL insider for Sky Sports, so there you go. There's a way to make money and have an event around something. Absolutely.
Yes. An apple cart in a way that will piss off so many fans and create so many conspiracy theories the league does not need. Let's ask Tom Pelissero, our three fans already think it's right.
So what do we do? They don't think the current NFL draft is rigged. Not the draft. They think the games are rigged. The number of people that should know better that appeared in the palm of my hand on a phone on some sort of a post that got sent to me.
That's a large, small subset that that should know better than to say something's fishy. Something's up. Cooper Flag just all of a sudden shows up in Dallas just after Dallas awards the Lakers with another generationally talented player.
That's Adam Silver doing a solid. You want the NFL? The NFL wants a part of that. You got to lose out on Drake May because some team that screws it up with their roster locks it out on a pig. We lost out on Caleb Williams by screwing it up ourselves. Maybe he gets Caleb Williams instead of Drake May.
Not that I mean, I'm you're happy with him, but you have a chance and the NFL will just do it one better. They'll do the whole thing live. So there's no questions of fixing it. They don't need it. I don't need it. We'll get someone else to host.
I was just trying to add to your resume. Who else is going to host? Well, not you right now. The guy who wants to do it, Mike Greenberg.
Yeah, I need I need you to look forward to being hosting this, Rich. You know, you don't want to do it. By the way, why do you why do you throw Mike Greenberg's name out? Because he talked today about how the league should do it. If he wants to do it, I'm just saying I think it's fine.
Mike Greenberg does it. Are you trying to create more ESPN? No, we're trying to give you a job that you apparently don't want. I'm not part of any food fights. I'm shocked that you're not on board with this cool progressive idea. It's not cool and progressive. It's dumb and regressive. I bet you guys it's regressive. You're you're you're you're making something worse. That's regressive.
I bet you Richard be the guy back in the day, though, to like color TV. You know, let's keep it black and white. This is what this season. We talk about we talk about the Patriots, right? This season, week 18, OK, these games are supposed to matter, right? Both the Bills and the Patriots are trying to lose. That is bad for business. This guy didn't get the memo.
No, you definitely have. Nor did the rest of the guys are out there working their asses off because they have no idea if they're going to be a patriot next year. The Patriots were trying to lose by putting him in the game. Rich, I'm not on your side for this argument, but you've got to do the thing with the picture. There you go. OK, now now I'm back with rich that the players don't want to lose. It sounds like the teams want to lose to the players.
Don't the players can't win. That is right there. It's just like the Celtics.
I agree. The Celtics P.A. announcer here put that photograph up there and make all the jokes you want. The draft is coming to the NFL. Joe Milton getting the Patriots pick number three. Brockman and I are volunteering to produce this story. Almost in Boston. Former MLB All-Star Sean Casey, a.k.a.
The Mayor, keeps hitting it out of the park. Take my 30 years of experience. Take the wisdom and knowledge I've learned from the failures when I got sent down my rookie year, all the injuries I had to overcome. Your mind is the most important tool you have in life. Be relentless.
Keep charging. It matters how you talk to yourself, how you look at the world. That matters. We talk about that.
I don't know. I'm fired up. Baseball is back and it's going to be incredible. I love it. The Mayor's Office with Sean Casey from Believe. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.
