Howard Beck: Jayson Tatum's Injury Is Awful

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Not available in all states. This is the Rich Eisen Show from the Rich Eisen Show Studio in Los Angeles. Rich Eisen Show.

Rich Eisen Show. And Tatum is hurt. Tatum is down. Tatum is in so much pain.

The fact that he had to be carried off, he's the type of guy that when he gets right up, so he did it. Rich Eisen Show. The number one pick goes to the Dallas Mavericks. Today's guest, senior NBA writer for the ringer, Howard Beck. Lions safety, Kirby Joseph. Co-owner of Rexham AFC, Rob McElhenney. Commander's head coach, Dan Quinn. And now, it's Rich Eisen.

All right, everybody. Welcome to this edition of the Rich Eisen Show live on the Roku channel, live on the Rich Eisen Show Terrestrial Radio Network, Infinity Sports Network, Sirius XM channel 375, Odyssey, and more. We've got Rob McElhenney coming in here, along with two players from Rexham in support of the newest season of Welcome to Rexham, which debuts and drops later on this week. So he's coming by here. Dan Quinn, the head coach of the Washington Commanders.

We just found out they're going to be playing against the Dolphins in Madrid as the drip, drip, drip of the NFL schedule 2025 version is coming out slowly but surely. Dan Quinn will be joining us in hour number three of this program. Kirby Joseph in studio from your Detroit Lions, hour number one. Howard Beck is going to be first up here on the show. You at 844-204.

Rich, number to Donald. Good to see you over there, Chris Brockman. How are you, sir? Cool.

Okay. Good to see you over there. DJ Mikey D is in D's nuts. Good morning, Rich. How are you? TJ Jefferson, how are you?

Dakota De La Soul III. That's the magic number. So that's where the sixes are. Fantastic. Oh, yeah.

So the draft lottery is, in fact, complete. But we start this show with the top story coming out of last night's Knicks game, and that is Stefan Diggs and Cardi B are an item. Who knew that? I had no idea. Really? Yeah.

You didn't see that they showed it to the game. Oh, yeah. I heard rumblings for months.

They became a Facebook official yesterday. I'm just trying to get Chris to smile. I think that's a real good sign for the Patriots season.

I'm not going to lie. Well, I mean, hey, suddenly there might be Patriots fatigue because everybody's tuning in to see if Cardi B is going to be there. I mean, that's the way it went with the Chiefs, right? Got them a title. Maybe the work for Chris.

I would say one giant difference, TJ. See, this guy, this guy, I'm just trying to get you. Oh, it's not happening. I'm going to be in such a terrible mood all day. Don't be in a terrible mood. Why? I'm sorry.

Why would I not be in a terrible mood? I know. My favorite player on my favorite team is now out probably all of next year, and the Celtics has currently constructed. It's over. The era's over. The run is over.

It was great. Got a championship. But it all ended last night, and I'm really sad.

I'm really bummed, and it's going to take a while to get over. Well, in terms of that, too, I mean, we're obviously referring to Jason Tatum going down with what appears to be an Achilles. I thought, because he was writhing in pain, and they go to commercial break, and we started texting each other. When Achilles get torn or popped in any way, shape, or form, right, that you normally see the guys don't, they're not writhing in pain, right? Like when Dame Lillard went down, he just sat there, right? Aaron Rodgers went down.

He sat there. You've seen differences. Kevin Durant. Remember, we watched him. We watched his calf twitch, right? We saw the super slow-mo, because it was in the NBA finals when they have 50 slow-mo cameras on every single human being. Kobe was just in shock. I mean, look, I've seen different reactions. I just thought we would come back and we would see him diving for the loose ball and he was stepping on someone's shoe, right?

Like his ankle would have just rolled something horrible, but instead it was when it looks like he was propelling himself towards the loose ball on no contact. And we're still waiting to hear the word here from Boston or I guess New York. Maybe he got it done, you know, just down the street from Madison Square Garden.

I don't know. The MRI is going to come back and I think we're going to find out that he's not only just done for the series, but as you point out, Chris, the foreseeable future. And he was having the night. Now, obviously in the first two games of this series, when the Celtics were missing most of their threes, there was even conversation like, where's Jason Tatum's hallmark game, big moment.

And obviously, Chris, you pointed, you pushed back and being a big fan, you pushed back with a handful of them. But in terms of, in terms of his career writ large, last night was being authored as his Madison Square Garden moment. And everybody great, all the greats have their Madison Square Garden moments against the Knicks, obviously. And he was having it. At one point, Mike Breen appropriately said he was unguardable. He was unguardable.

He was absolutely unguardable. And his three point shooting at the end of the first half sparked a 12 0 run because I think Derek White made one and Pritchard made one. Derek White started on fire last night. Tatum had 15 in the first quarter.

He was on one right from the get go. But it was a one possession game with two minutes to go in the first half and then boom, double digits, which is what the Celtics carried into the third quarter in which Brunson began to answer back. Brunson was unreal in the third.

He had, he had almost 20 points in the third quarter. And that's what last night was. Breen, in the same breath that he called Tatum unguardable, he called Brunson unstoppable. This is why Breen has the, the Emmys.

And it was, it was an absolute classic unfolding in the Garden. And the Knicks did have a couple possession lead when Jalen Brown lost control of the ball. Oji Ananobi picked it up for an uncontested dunk on the other end and the Celtics season and potentially next season and future got altered on the spot. And the Knicks finished it up, 121-113. And in finishing it up to take a three games to one lead on the Celtics, the, the broadcast, the ESPN broadcast showed Tatum in a wheelchair in the tunnel.

And, you know, Jalen Brown had this to say after the game. I think everybody's concerned, you know, with, with Jason. You know, I'm not sure how bad it is.

Didn't look great. But I think everybody is, you know, kind of concerned, more concerned with that. Obviously the loss is, is huge. And, but we got to get ready for game five. So we'll, we'll take the night and pick our heads up tomorrow and put together a game plan to come out on our own floor to keep the, keep this series alive. Well, he's going to have to with Tatum out because I can't imagine the news is going to come back so positively that it's just, he'll be there for game five, let alone have an intact Achilles. When we hear at some point we assume over the next three hours that Brown's going to have to crush it. He's going to have to have the nights of his life to extend the series, to at least force a game six and force the pressure back on the Knicks to avoid a game seven.

But these are just only the best case scenarios. I'm sorry, Chris. I, I, I, you know, as you know, I also live in a household of Celtics fans.

I married into a family of Celtics fans. This guy is a superstar of superstars having the, one of the biggest nights of his career. Every single time he touched the ball, like it's going in. And when he missed, it was kind of surprising.

Yeah. He was having a great night. Unfortunately, he was kind of the only one, it was him and Derek White kind of carrying this team. Jalen Brown didn't have a great game. Pritchett was kind of off and, and Porzingis is obviously still feeling the effects of whatever illness is. But he was out there at least. He was out there, but it was like the first two games of the series where he just disappeared.

But he clearly wasn't kind of doing anything. Horford wasn't doing anything. And you know, they had no answer for the Knicks, you know, best offensive night of the Knicks in this series. You know, credit all to them, Jalen Brunson, OG and, and Mikel Bridges were awesome. They were, it seems like every time they had an open three, it was going in and Bridges had that mid range game going.

You know, bummer. Probably may, maybe the Celtics wouldn't have won anyway, but the last three minutes was shaping up to be an absolute. Here comes Brunson, here comes Tatum.

It was, it was a prize fight in a garden. Yeah. 42 points for Tatum. 42. 16 to 28 shooting, quite frankly. Every time he could have had a 50 piece last night for all we know.

So I'm sorry. Yeah. I think it was like six minutes left for when he scored his 42nd and I thought, okay, he's going to put up 50. I mean, he had to, if they were going to win the game, he had kind of had to do that, but you know, unfortunately, you know, played out how it's like you said, man, we were setting this up Brunson and him back and forth, blow for blow, punch for punch, kick for kick. It was like, you know, watching a battle in an octagon or a boxing game.

And before, before this marred everything, I was, you know, I was already making notes about how I was going to come in here saying, Scott, the Scott Foster treatment, his, his thumb was on your scale last night for a while. No first half free throws for the New York Knicks. You got to go to the basket to get free throws. Jalen Brown was in inexplicable foul trouble. Like some of those, it was crazy.

Well, I mean, right. Pritchard, Pritchard got two free throws after a travel, clear travel underneath the basket. He got shoved in the back. But no, I mean, he was, he was, he was, he was, I don't know, man. Tatum double dribbled for, on the one and one that he got, and it was just kind of like, okay.

What are we looking at? I mean, the Brunson called, that he called, Brunson does that thing that Reggie Miller used to do, where he sticks out his foot in the landing spot. Oh, you're talking about the, the flagrant foul. Jalen Brown, foot didn't even move. And then Brunson sticks out his leg and lands on Brown. And that's a foul on Brown. Like her definitely tripped Tatum on the way to the rack, that one play. Yeah, where he hurt his wrist.

By the way, I think Breen even pointed out, Missoula's not yelling at him to get up from this one. Yeah. You know, officiating was kind of dicey last night, but it didn't matter that the level of basketball being played was so high. It was great. And you know, it was kind of what we were hoping for in this, in this series all along.

But you know. And Rich, you know, we taught, I know you specifically don't like it when players load manage and take games off, right? There's a guy that we never really talk about is Mikkel Bridges. I don't think this dude's ever missed a basketball game in his entire life.

I think since high school, right? He's got a really long streak. Every night he's there, like you said, the mid range, he was looking like a mid 2000s, Sean Livingston. The elbow jumper was just on point. Like this guy gets no real recognition, but they don't win that game last night without him kind of bridging the gap and everything. 44 minutes last night, 11 of 21 for Bridges and a 23 point night, Carl Anthony Towns, 23 and 11. And OG Ananobi, 20 points last night as well.

Josh Hart with just six, but nine rebounds, five assists. And then of course there's the maestro himself, quite frankly, with Marbury there. I was explaining to Cooper, that's Marbury, that's Latrell Sprewell, that's John Starks, that's Bernard King, that's Larry Johnson. That's Walt Clyde Frazier. And that's Walt Clyde Frazier.

And that's the schmecke guy in the hat. We won't talk about him, but you know and Brunson and there was Ewing obviously. And there's Jalen Brunson who is 100% in that mix with these all time Knicks. If not the best of his generation and what he's turned into.

Just let me just have a couple of seconds here. What he has turned into, the clutch player that he is, the facilitator that he also can be, he had 12 assists last night. When this team was down and staring in the face and my Knicks fan friends were texting me, this is Celtics in six.

Honestly, because it was looking that way. Tatum's unstoppable. And you know, the defense was smothering and the Knicks weren't, were getting frustrated. We were just a couple of minutes away from the Mitchell Robinson free throw Palooza. And the guy who prevented that from happening was Jalen Brunson.

All of it. Now the Knicks did the right thing. I said it at the time and all my Knicks fan friends were flipping out about Julius Randall being sent away and the big ragu. And Randall has the Timberwolves sitting up three games to one in another series marred by injury. And we'll talk about that with Howard Beck of the ringer in a second.

And Randall has been spectacular in the playoffs for the Timberwolves. So this is, this trade is all working out right now, but Karl-Anthony Towns coming in and Bridges, those five first round picks. Again, we talk about it in the NFL all the time. When you make these trades and you trade picks.

If it works out, who cares? We don't talk about it, right? We don't talk about, you know, we talked with Brandon Bean about Josh Allen the other day. We don't talk about how they traded up twice to go get in position for him, right?

Don't talk about it. So the five ones for Bridges and the trade for Karl-Anthony Towns, as long as it continues to work out and they're healthy enough because Thibodeau plays like three and a half people. So, and, and, and they all play 90 minutes a game. I'm obviously exaggerating. So that's a record.

And everyone's like staring all over the steering wheel. It looks like the Knicks and Pacers last year, which was the second round exit for the Knicks in seven games because they ran out of gas and ran out of bodies. We're staring that in the face, but another Jalen Brunson signature game. And my apologies to the Celtics fans. And we will talk about Cooper Flagg going to the Mavericks and everybody thinking that the fix is in, in a lottery. And we'll talk about the draft lottery later on. Coming up next, we throw it a break because we won't talk about all of that.

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Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. So right around 7 15 p.m. Eastern Time is when the smiling face of Mark Tatum showed up. My gosh, I don't know the assistant commissioner of the NBA, but that guy's got a great smile. He's very happy all the time. And I just don't, I don't think it's fake, you know. I don't either. Never met him, only ever seen him during the draft lottery reveal.

How could you not be happy doing that? Do you remember the anchor Bill McAtee? You saw him on CBS, he used to do the Masters also. Bill had this way about him, I noticed when I was working on CBS, that he would, he would do, he would lead in, he would do an on-camera lead in and then at the end of it, he would just smile. So he would just basically say, that's coming up later on CBS. Just like that every time. And I kept thinking to myself, is he really happy that he's been, did he get through the prompter?

Did he get through the read happily? Like, is that what it was? But you know, you know, he would just finish up and he would go, yeah, just like that. And the Mavericks have the first. But what do you do it with like, you know, Hey, uh, you know, Hey, tank, team that tanked, you're out of the top five. And then he would smile. Don't you think that that's like, that's the top jazz screwed.

Does that just dig it even worse? Don't smile about that mark or team that didn't tank. You could have ended up with the first pick fans.

You could have had the spot, the Dallas Maverick sat and guess who's got the first overall pick. Oh my God. I was thinking about the entire time of this lottery. What a job, the smile and the smiling deputy commissioner. We should do a new show on ABC. So much to talk about, uh, with the, um, uh, senior NBA writer of the ringer. Howard Beck is back here on the rich eyes and show. Good to see you, Howard. How are you? Great to see you too. Rich doing well.

Hope you're doing well as well. And before I forget, please say hello to Susie. You know how, you know, you just know how to come. Correct. Howard.

She would say, did Howard say hello? So I'm glad we can check that box. Uh, good to see you.

So, uh, I mean, what a bummer. This is the only way to put it about Jason Tatum. The guy was having one of the greatest basketball nights one could have in Madison square garden for a defending NBA champ, just a superb evening.

And then we saw what happened best. You can tell, is this an Achilles injury? Howard? I mean, that's obviously the first thing going through all of our heads as you're watching this. If you've watched basketball for any length of time, and if you've ever seen a guy go down with a non-contact injury and immediately holding that part of their leg, and then the emotion that overcame him immediately, you could just see like, he knew whatever it is. Jason Tatum is pretty sure it's, it's a terrible, devastating injury because the emotions as well as his pain, um, telegraph that immediately. So you hope against hope, you hope that it's not an Achilles and you hope that Jason Tatum will be back on a court before too long, although it doesn't seem likely until at least next season at the earliest.

So that's all just awful. It's terrible for the Celtics clearly and for their title defense. Um, and it's devastating more than anything for Jason Tatum personally and for his career. And yeah, I mean, rich, you, you said it like the guy was having an incredible night.

I mean, we all talk about this. We rhapsodize about Madison square garden and like, there's just no better place to have a career defining game or just a spectacular night period. And in the playoffs and with your team down and you're trying to rally them and you know, the, the, the story was being written, you know, like this, the script was being written for this phenomenal comeback where Tatum can tie up the series and Celtics can tie up the series, get back in this thing, maybe beat the Knicks in the, in the series and go try to defend their championship.

And right now that's looking rather bleak in terms of the long term future. Uh, assuming this is something so significant, Howard, w what are the Celtics looking at in this off season? They were all, there was already word that, you know, with second aprons and things like that, that there were, there were some big names that were going to get moved off this team.

Anyway, what, what, what does this mean? Do you think for the Celtics? So, uh, my friend, Bobby marks over at ESPN, obviously the guru of all things, salary cap and second aprons, first aprons, other various, uh, kitchen attire. Um, Bobby has noted for some time here that they were looking at probably like a $500 million payroll and tax combination for next season. And of course this is happening while they're also going through an ownership change. And while, uh, with Grossbeck's group has always been willing to spend whatever it took in luxury taxes to keep this thing going, it's not clear whether the new ownership group, which has not yet been approved officially will do the same.

So there's that piece of it. If you win a championship, if you go back to back, you know, the pressure's on you as ownership to keep everything together, no matter what it costs you. But in today's MBA, it's also not just about whether you're willing to keep writing checks for tens of millions or hundreds of millions of extra dollars. It's also about these aprons and these aprons take away your ability to continue to build your roster or to replace players if they're lost to injury, for instance. And it makes it very, very difficult to sustain your roster. So the Celtics with or without Tatum being injured and with or without a championship, uh, in June, we're already going to be in a really difficult position.

And I think that this complicates it that much further Howard back of the ringer here on the Rich Eisen show. So, uh, let's talk about a trade that worked for both teams. It appears as the Timberwolves in the Knicks are up three games to one. Um, both of them, uh, on the cusp of their conference championship, um, game, uh, series appearances. Let, let's take the Knicks first and what you're seeing from this team different, obviously from the past few years, Howard, you know, rich, what's really fascinating about the Knicks right now in this moment is that they are kind of recapturing the spirit of what made last year's Knicks team with Julius Randall and Dante DiVincenzo instead of Carl Anthony towns.

So beloved. And so admired the Knicks last season were just incredibly scrappy, tough, resilient, all those things, every adjective in that category. And we saw it in the playoffs last year, they kept losing bodies and they just kept winning and they finally just ran out of bodies and ran out of gas and they lost to the Pacers in a game seven at Madison square garden. And you know, from the moment they made that trade to get Carl Anthony towns and you understood why, you know, they'd lost heart and Stein to free agency. They couldn't keep him. They tried and they needed a center. Mitch Robinson was, was hurt and you knew you were going to miss him for at least half the season and towns was available. And we'll talk about that in a second, but towns was available and towns is a very different fit than the heart and Stein, Mitch Robinson combination. I think there were moments this season, rich, and of course they also picked up the kill bridges last off season. There were moments this season where Knicks fans felt very conflicted about this team.

They were still winning at a decent pace, but they weren't quite as dominant as they'd hoped. Bridges didn't look like as fluid of a fit as Knicks fans in the Knicks themselves had hoped towns as we know throughout his career, incredibly skilled offensive player, not a rim protector, not always the grittiest player. And it seemed like the Knicks had lost a little bit of what had made them special, especially last spring and somewhere along the way here, rich, they've got that back. And that includes towns that he hasn't had, you know, dominant game every time out in these first two rounds, but he's come up with some key blocks and key stops at times and key rebounds at times. Bridges is looking much better now than he was, you know, a few months back. It's all seems to be falling into place and they are once again, embodying the spirit of their toughest nails point guard, Jalen Brunson and their toughest nails head coach, Tom Thibodeau. And I don't think Knicks fans are having any of that ambivalence that I was describing from a couple of months ago.

No. And then on the flip side, Julius Randle with a triple double in game three's victory for the Timberwolves in San Francisco. And then, you know, Anthony Edwards doing his usual walk in the walk, talk in the talk situation in game four. And they're on the verge of going to the Western Conference Finals. Howard, again, here we go. The Timberwolves have got that look about themselves.

And I'll give you the floor on that. And what a bummer that Steph Curry got hurt in this. Yeah, we need to ban injuries.

Yes, I agree. Anthony Edwards has been fantastic. There are moments where you think, is he getting it?

Is he going to get it? And then suddenly it's like, oh, my gosh, yes, there it is again. Steph being out certainly puts a damper on the tent, you know, the just the overall picture of this series, certainly a bummer for Warriors fans who thought maybe Jimmy Butler was going to get them over the top again.

It's been fascinating watching Randall and to a lesser extent, DiVincenzo fit in there. I alluded to this a minute ago. This was a financial decision. We talked about the second apron and all the features of this new CBA, if not for the second apron and all of that stuff. I don't know that they were trading towns. This was not a basketball motivated decision last summer as much as it was a financial and a bookkeeping decision.

And you wondered at the moment that they made it. They gave up the best player in the deal in towns, but they got two really valuable rotation pieces. Randall's had a really up and down cut last couple of years in the postseason when he was in New York. Knicks fans had very mixed feelings about Julius Rand, a little bit of a love hate thing with him. And part of that was he just didn't he couldn't stay healthy in the playoffs. But there's also been moments where he'd faded to keep up at key moments.

Vinyl has been fantastic. DiVincenzo has done for Minnesota a lot of what he did for New York and it's worked out really well. Again, I don't think that they would have done this in a vacuum if it was just about the basketball, but it has really benefited the Timberwolves.

And yeah, I don't know if we would have said this a couple of months ago, but as of right now in mid-May with these teams both on the verge of making the conference finals in their respective conferences, it is going to be the classic case of a trade that truly helps both teams. And, you know, nice to see that occasionally. No doubt. Howard back here on the Rich Eisen Show. OK, Howard, if I had tinfoil, I'd make a hat out of it for this next question. The number of people who thought the NBA put their thumb on the draft lottery scale for the Dallas Mavericks to get Cooper Flag with their one percent chance, just under the two percent milk, right, that they go one point eight percent to Cooper Flag. I've lost track of the number of people who say, well, you know, the NBA watched Nico Harrison fumble the bag and at least they had him set up the Lakers for post LeBron.

Now let's do him a favor and send Cooper Flag there. I've lost track of the number of people who say that. And you, sir, are an inveterate NBA man who's covered this league and association forever and a day.

I give you the floor on this subject matter. Howard. Rich, if we were texting right now, I would wear out my finger on the eye roll emoji. It would just go over and over and over and over again for pages and pages.

And you would finally be like, Howard, please stop enough. I get it. My eyes are going to roll so far.

They're going to go into the back of my head. Listen, I get it. I get it. I get it.

But no, no, no. This is not a conspiracy. The lottery is not rigged. I wasn't I'm not in Chicago.

I'm home in Brooklyn. But I've been in that room before the lottery room, the actual drawing room where the ping pong ball machine is. And the folks from Ernst and Young, the worldwide very respected firm of Ernst and Young presides over this whole thing. There are, I don't know, a couple dozen people in the room. You've got the representatives of every team that's in the lottery. You've got a bunch of us from the media who are there as the neutral observers. You've got other various NBA officials and people from NBA security. You can watch this whole thing unfold and they now put it on online. I think it's on YouTube or maybe on the NBA's website where you can go and look and you can see this for yourself how this goes. It is a complex process.

It is a detailed process. There are all kinds of safeguards built into the process. And I've heard people say, well, oh, if you were in the room and you knew something happened and, you know, nobody would be able to say anything because what media would lose their credentials or whatever for this to be a conspiracy that we could all witness in the room and then all keep silent. That would require, among other things, among the many, many holes in this whole stupid conspiracy theory that would require the complicity of all the teams that lost the lottery. Why would they do that? Why would the other 13 teams that were in the lottery be like, yeah, it's OK, let the Mavericks have it. You know, they made a stupid trade.

Let's give them the best pick in the draft. Why would they be complicit in that? Now, if you want to say it's somehow rigged because the lottery balls, the ping pong balls are somehow weighted or this or that, there's some way of fixing the whole draw. OK, fine.

You have accused a massive number of people of I don't even know how many felonies and fraudulence perpetrated on the public, not to mention perpetrated on members of their own organization, perpetrated on other NBA franchises. It doesn't make any sense. I don't think it's possible.

I don't think it happens. I hate that I've had to even expend this much time saying why it was not the case. Howard, I hear you because, you know, I hear all the time out of the NFL is fixed, it's rigged.

And my answer is like that. That means the other franchises in the league are complicit to say, sure, let's make sure the Chiefs continue to win because the league loves Taylor Swift going to these games because it brings in a whole new fan base and a lot more revenue. It's absurd.

I just wanted to give that that moment to you to explain, you know, how it all works. That said, there is something off about this draft lottery where the three teams with the three worst records have the same chance of getting the first overall pick and then winding up since they've changed this way of doing things because teams and franchises in the association could not be trusted to not tank en masse in the final throws of the regular season. That there's something off here that a team like the Wizards picks sixth and a team like the Jazz picks fifth and the Hornets fourth.

I mean, the teams with the worst records in the NBA aren't even in choosing in the top three. I mean, something's got to go. Something's got to be something's got to be done about at least the way they go about the setup. Howard, don't you think?

Or no? Rich, 10 years ago we were having not necessarily literally you and me were having but we the collective, right? We were having this discussion in the opposite direction, which is teams are tanking too much. The processor sixers did their thing and we've got to do something about teams being able to manipulate the system and get a top three pick. And the NBA responded by reforming, quote unquote, reforming the lottery. And in doing so gave the teams with the three worst records and equal weight or equal chance of getting number one different chances of getting two and three.

And so this has worked. What the NBA did to reform the lottery several years ago has worked. The whole point was to dissuade teams from doing what the Jazz and the Wizards did this season and what some other teams did as well.

But those were the two most egregious. The whole point was to say, don't try losing intentionally just because you're going to try to gain the system. You can't gain the system anymore. You'll have a better shot than most teams at the number one pick, but not 25 percent anymore if you had the worst record. Now it's only 14 percent and that's supposed to dissuade teams. And the lottery results in the last several years since reform have shown over and over that being a bottom three team does not guarantee you a top three pick.

And a lot of teams have have tried this gambit anyway and lost in the same way that the Wizards and Jazz lost out last night. That's the system working. It's not the system being broken. That's the system conveying that you cannot manipulate this thing. And if you try right, you know what, you might get the number one pick San Antonio or you might finish fifth or sixth Washington and Utah. So this is the system working.

And I don't know. I get that people now, especially if you're a fan of the teams that really thought they were going to be at the top of the board, are suddenly wringing their hands going, well, now what do we do? I get that frustration. But we have to decide what we actually want out of this.

Do we want a system that rewards intentional losing or do you want a system that has enough volatility where you can't manipulate it? Well, I mean, the crazy thing is now people in Miami are saying they should have not made the play in tournament because had they not played out of that tournament to just get wiped off the face of the earth in the first round, they would have had the slot the Mavericks had. Yeah.

And assuming the ping pong balls bounced in the same way, Cooper flag would be going to South Florida right now. And that's what they're talking about in Miami, Howard, you know, so now we're now we might get to the point of like, what's the point of making the play in tournament to play out of it only to get smoked in the first round? You know, like that's part of the conversation today.

Yeah. And, and it's, and it's part of the reason why the NBA has been very careful in the way that they've devised the lottery odds and the system. So when they were discussing this, you know, 10 years ago, one of the things, you know, people go back to like, well, why don't we just go back to the way the lottery was at the very beginning where every non playoff team has equal odds of winning it all. But then the problem is exactly what you're just describing, rich, where if you're on the fence about making the playoffs or the play in versus just, you know, letting go of the rope and being a lottery team, even as the 13th or 14th team, the lottery, if it's equally weighted throughout, you might as well say, yeah, I'm better off in the lottery. Why do I want to go be cannon fodder as an eighth seed?

I'll just opt out of the playoffs and I'll have just as good of a chance of winning the lottery as the 14th team as, as the, as the one team. So that's why they haven't gone back to that. And that's why they, I don't think they ever would go back to that. But what's interesting is, as you point out, you know, Miami can sit there now looking at exactly what unfolded and knowing where they would have been if they had just lost in the play in and not made the playoffs.

It's just like, there's always going to be a cutoff point. There's always going to be some team that had to make a decision. And at least in this case, in real time, Miami could not have known that the team with the, one of the lowest chances of getting the number one pick was going to get it. Right. So there's still no incentive to decide to be a lottery team instead of a playoff team, if you're on the borderline in, you know, early April.

So again, I think this is the system working. It just, you know, sucks if you're the Miami Heat or Miami Heat fan. I mean, it's the basketball gods can be cruel, although not so much in Dallas right now.

My favorite Howard Beck here, a couple of minutes left with the, the senior NBA writer for the ringer Howard Beck here on the Rich Eisen show. My favorite meme coming off of the draft lottery of the Mavericks winning the first overall pick was a quick GIF from the equalizer where Denzel Washington has a gun pointed right at him. Right. And it says, this is Nico Harrison today. Denzel Washington has a gun pointed right at him. He steals it right out of the guy's hands and points it back at the guy. You had the gun that it's now flipped. You know, Nico is now look out. Now Nico has completely flipped the script.

Thanks to the basketball ping pong gods. Right. Yeah. He's not going to trade this pick. Right. Howard. I mean, there are some people in Dallas who think this could be another, I mean, he's not going to number one pick and a couple other dudes for Giannis.

Like what are we doing? I mean, they, you know, they have Anthony Davis. I don't know. I don't think they'll do that. I mean, but the Spurs have got the two, right. They got the second overall pick.

I know they have one Bunyama. I mean, how does this all work together together with the honest looming over these proceedings now that he supposedly has the, uh, the wanderlust from Milwaukee Howard. Yeah. I mean, what a, what a, what a wild, uh, change of fate for Nico Harrison. I mean, I don't think he's necessarily getting a parade thrown for him tomorrow.

Like you didn't, he didn't do anything to win the lottery. That's just luck, but it certainly gets them off the hook for what might've been what probably was the most unpopular trade in the history of professional basketball on earth or in the galaxy. Uh, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's great. Look, I'm happy for Mavericks fans for sure. Um, they deserve this after the heartache and everything they've gone through, it does present like fairly. And, and it was funny because I texted a couple of people around the NBA last night, uh, from other front offices and they were like, yeah, don't, don't put anything past Nico about trading the pick. But I think there's actually, you know, jokes aside, a, a case to at least consider it. Right. Um, they have said, and look, Kyrie's injury, the ACL injury puts this in a little bit different light, but Nico's justification has been in part that we've got a window here. Um, Kyrie's in his early thirties, early to mid thirties, uh, and, and Anthony Davis, who they've acquired, you know, in that same timeframe. So if the, if the whole thing is we're trying to win in the next three to five years, are you, how confident are you that Cooper flag, any rookie, frankly, can contribute to winning at a high level immediately. Cause it doesn't happen very often in this league. I mean, weapon Yama is a generational talent and just an absolute incredible athlete. And weapon Yama has not turned around the spurs in the first two years, injury aside rookies don't generally catapult a team to title contention.

And so if you've got Anthony Davis and you've got Kyrie Irving coming back, who knows maybe January or February of next season. And you say that the window is now, well, if the window is now there's, there's a case to at least be made. I'm not saying I'm making it. I'm just saying it's out there that if you traded Cooper flag for a high level veteran who helps you right now, maybe Yanis under the combo, maybe somebody else, there's a case for it. Not saying they should do it.

Not saying they will, but there's a discussion I think to be had and they would be foolish not to at least have that conversation internally and weigh the pros and cons. Well, I mean, the Dallas would check the Yanis box of no state income tax, if that is in fact a rumored truth. And so what is, before I let you go, the status of status of Yanis' mind right now, Howard, that you know?

Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to add anything new to this discussion that we haven't all already either heard, perceived, or heard whispered, but Yanis was putting, you know, kind of, I don't know how to, how to frame this, but he had a report or an interview with the New York Times. I think it was two summers ago already where he had kind of hinted at the idea that, that listen, I want to win more championships. And he has said this in various forms in various places. I want to win more championships and that's the priority.

And if I can't do it here, we'll see. Well, the Bucks have clearly reached the end of the road here with this group, with this roster, with Damian Lillard as his running mate since Dame went down with the injury and is lost for the foreseeable future. And given his age anyway, I don't know how much longer they had to go together. Yanis has not as of yet demanded a trade. And I think we're in that weird kind of in-between zone where if you're the Milwaukee Bucks, you don't want to voluntarily trade a generational talent like Yanis. If you're Yanis, you don't want to have to look like the bad guy by saying, it's time for me to go and make the trade demand. I suspect that what will eventually happen is the two, you know, entities, the, the, the team and the player and his representation will come together and mutually decide that it's best for all parties. If the Bucks chart a new direction and Yanis goes somewhere where he can contend, I think that's where this is all going.

I'm not saying that it's not a report, please don't aggregate it. I just think that that's where this is inevitably heading. And I think we're in for a wild summer.

Too late. I think it's been aggregated by three other spots, man. That's what happens when you come on the Rich Eisen Show.

Those guys are fast. Suzy is going to be sitting in this chair a few times over the next couple of weeks, Howard. So be on the lookout, Bolo, for a Suzy Schuster invite back here.

You are one of her favorites and the same goes for us. Thanks for the time, brother. Always appreciate it, Rich.

Great to see you, man. Howard Beck, senior NBA writer for The Ringer here on The Rich Eisen Show. In the NFL, there's zero margin for error.

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The mission is clear. Don't miss it. We're thrilled to have on the representative of the Atlanta Hawks and last night's NBA Draft Lottery who whose presence lit up Twitter.

There's no other way to describe it. Jamie Gertz here on The Rich Eisen Show. How are you, Jamie? I'm great, Rich.

Thank you for having me. How are you? I am doing fine for all of your shocked fans out there. How did you wind up where you were last night? This is our fourth season. We're going into our fourth season of owning the Atlanta Hawks basketball team. My husband said to me, you've brought me a lot of luck for the past 30 years. Nice.

So I would like you to be the one to help pick us our lottery pick. And I was like, are you serious, honey? I can't believe that you're making me do this, but I have to say it was tons of fun.

I think ignorance is bliss. So I kind of didn't, you know, I was the one up there who really, you know, I knew it was important to us and I knew what our percentage was. I think it was 13.7% chance. And so, you know, the train left the station and you just jump on board. And I was just decided that I was going to have a good time. Okay. So Jamie Gertz, you were saying that you knew going in that your chances were not less than zero. Is that what you're saying? They were not less than zero.

I feel my odds were a little better than that for sure. You do realize that there were just tons of your, I guess your filmography and TV references being made on Twitter last night. There were a few Spare Square tweets. References.

Okay. There are a few about that. It's better on Twitter than when I'm in the restroom and someone asks me if I can spare a square. Does that happen to you?

Does that happen? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You walk in and people are like, hey, can you spare a square? I'm like, no, I do not have a square to spare.

It has happened to me. Okay. Wow.

All right. So in all in all, how do the Hawks as an organization feel about that third overall selection that you were able to bring home? I think the fact that we moved up was huge. I mean, I was just looking at my husband and my son and Travis Schlenk, our GM, and they were so they were beaming, you know, we did a little rehearsal. They do a little rehearsal with everyone. And they said, okay, if you become the top three, then there are these marks you have to go stand on. And I'm like, oh, well, I've been doing that for 35 years.

You're just, you're preaching to the choir. I know how to hit my mark. So once I knew that we were, you know, top three and I saw the relief in their face, you know, I knew that I had had done my job and the real work starts now for them and figuring out the best pieces of the puzzle for the Atlanta Hawks. You know, we're on our way.

We're putting the pieces of that puzzle together. And it's very exciting for our fans and all of Atlanta. Yeah, we've covered the lottery in many different ways.

I wanted one of them is getting Jamie Gertz on the program after she appeared at the draft lottery. Kind of stunned everybody in the, was that the year they got Trae Young? Who did they wind up getting in the, I think that was the year they got Trae Young.

Could have been that. Yeah, well, yeah. They wound up traded. They basically swapped one for one there. That's what ended up happening. Yeah. And then Atlanta ended up winning the draft, draft final way last year. That's true.

That is correct. Not being one of the top three teams with the worst records. Unbelievable. We'll discuss this a little bit later. We got the end of the hour coming up and then Kirby Joseph of the Detroit Lions is chilling in our green room and we'll bring him out. YL and Pittsburgh here on the program. What's up YL? You there YL? He's up. Oh boy. YL is S-O-L. All right YL.

No, just put him back on and put him back on hold there. I can't wait to hear where YL's going to continue. I know me too. I would say this, knowing YL, it will be Mike Tomlin. Probably. It'll be something Tomlin related. Tomlin always top of mind with YL.

Stay by your phone man, I may need you. It will be something Tomlin related. You know?

Save your time. When is Aaron Rodgers going to say yes? What's going on? Who cares at this point? Come on, what are we doing? Steelers fans care at this point.

Here coach. On Wednesday tomorrow night, I will be on NFL Network for three hours with the schedule release and we will see who the Pittsburgh Steelers are playing in week one and the question is going to be, is that Mason Rudolphs? You just say Stillers just now?

Yeah, why not? It sounds like you said Stillers. We'll find out. Tomorrow night we're getting schedules and we're not, you know, we did find out that something was wrong about what I found out. We finally got another combine rumor that was answered that was wrong and we'll get to that because the international schedule's out. We'll hit that. Some tasty matchups in these international games. Look, we know the opening game.

We know we're going to start with the varsity. This guy, this guy. No, no, no. Oh, we talk about the Cowboys too much. If your name gets you so butt hurt, then I'm just going to keep doing it then. Look at me. I'm TJ Jefferson. I don't want to talk about the Cowboys until I want to talk about the Cowboys.

Kirby Joseph for the Lions coming up. When they're worth talking about. Sure. And they're worth talking about. Here's the thing too. I can't stand in this world, TJ. What can't you stand?

You know what? I can't stand in this world saying something completely edgy at best off the charts, arrogant at worst. And then when you have the appropriate reaction as just a normal human being going about life, having been assaulted verbally by this statement now, suddenly your butt hurt by reacting in that way. So I'm the butt hurt one. You're not the butthole one saying something.

So by God, man, it is me. I'm calling my team, the varsity, which any one of you can do the, your team, you just do that, but you could, it's just a nickname and it's just something I say Michigan, the varsity ratings, Michigan football ratings are through the roof. You want your cake and eat it too.

Not at all. You want to call them the varsity and then get mad. And we talk about them all the time.

When I say varsity, do we run back to the tape? Was I a smile on my cheesy smile on my face? You can't hide behind that. Embrace it or not.

You may embrace it or not. You may deliver the package nicely, but when we open the package, what's in the box, it's a head. I don't want to see, Ooh, you know what I mean? I don't even know how those two correlate spoiler alert.

What's Brad Pitt has to do with this because you smile just because you've packaged it so nicely. I'm making jokes. Me calling my team, the varsity that really upsets you. Wow. You've got better problems.

I know one. So it's got your butt hurt. You're like, Oh no, no, no, no, no.

He made a great catch of a catchable a pop fly yesterday in right field. Oh, wait a minute. I'm told he butchered it completely. Oh, I'm sorry. What sent me the video and said, do you want to handle this one? And I said, my man, the video for me and everything. That's the one post on the show.

No, no, no, but it wasn't for the show. It was for our text chain. Gotcha. Okay. Who knows what makes me happy. Thanks.

27 and 15. We're doing the best record in the national league right now. Right now it's on fire dog.

The Knicks are the only team I think in New York that has Mets and Yankees fans rooting for the same team. Polar bear, right? I have the polar bear in fantasy. Thank you for letting us know that.

No problem. That's so great. That's why he's so good at fantasy baseball in the first place. Yeah. Rich, what would you do if the Knicks actually win the champion? Oh, that would be, that would be quite something. I mean, there's a long way to go. Uh, it's a tall order. Nordberg, Kirby, Joseph coming up.

Former MLB all-star Sean Casey, AKA the mayor keeps hitting it out of the park. Take my 30 years of experience. Take the wisdom and knowledge I've learned from the failures when I got sent down my rookie year, all the injuries I had to overcome. Your mind is the most important tool you have in life. Be relentless. Keep charging.

It matters how you talk to yourself, how you look at the world that matters. We talk about that. I don't know. I'm fired up. Baseball's back and it's going to be incredible. I love it. The mayor's office with Sean Casey from believe. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.